Fast Break AI

[El_Poopador]

Will we ever get to the point where we can run realistic fast breaks? This just happened to me. As funny as it is to see my own teammate play defense on me, it just calls into question the AI in the game.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P1uSq8gsyRI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So many things wrong with this, from the fact that Thompson didn't split off from me on the 2v1 break, to him actually stopping in front of me and essentially defending my shot.

[DonWuan]

Re: Fast Break AI

Sad part is, he is looking to shoot the 3 like every other player in the game no matter who.

This game is sad on so many levels.

[MadManCometh]

Re: Fast Break AI

Will we ever get to the point where we can run realistic fast breaks? This just happened to me. As funny as it is to see my own teammate play defense on me, it just calls into question the AI in the game.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P1uSq8gsyRI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So many things wrong with this, from the fact that Thompson didn't split off from me on the 2v1 break, to him actually stopping in front of me and essentially defending my shot.

Another A.I. fault. Players are really dumb this year as they don't even know when their on a break or not....this type of thing happens all the time. It's 2k way of saying "you cannot fast break".

[redux1000]

Re: Fast Break AI

Sad part is, he is looking to shoot the 3 like every other player in the game no matter who.

This game is sad on so many levels.

Another example of overcompensating for a problem. In the past, there weren't enough 3's on fast breaks, as in zero really. It is great that they added them, but now there are too many. Unfortunately there are also still no alley-oops on CPU fast breaks, which has always been the case

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Fast Break AI

I swear the AI is getting worse every year.

[thormessiah]

Re: Fast Break AI

Will we ever get to the point where we can run realistic fast breaks? This just happened to me. As funny as it is to see my own teammate play defense on me, it just calls into question the AI in the game.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P1uSq8gsyRI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So many things wrong with this, from the fact that Thompson didn't split off from me on the 2v1 break, to him actually stopping in front of me and essentially defending my shot.

Things like this increase my suspicion that they didn't really fix the fast break issues from last year, they just added a bunch of weird crap like this to stop it from being overpowered.

[SirGaryColeman]

Re: Fast Break AI

Things like this increase my suspicion that they didn't really fix the fast break issues from last year, they just added a bunch of weird crap like this to stop it from being overpowered.

Makes sense.

They aren't making a new game each year. They have made one Next-Gen game so far: 2k14 and they have been patching it ever since.

[Baebae32]

Re: Fast Break AI

A simple "Run the rim v. Spot Up" tendency would help.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Fast Break AI

I was going over some video of my own game play to watch and try to get better, and I decided to break down this play for this thread.

It shows stuff we all know is there, and has been for years. I'm just showing how it's still there and how fast break AI in 2K still has a long, long way to go.

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[LorenzoDC]

Re: Fast Break AI

I was going over some video of my own game play to watch and try to get better, and I decided to break down this play for this thread.

It shows stuff we all know is there, and has been for years. I'm just showing how it's still there and how fast break AI in 2K still has a long, long way to go.

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Hey Books, I see you with that rec. I thought you bailed from the threads!

I frequently remember that post you made early on about putting the game down and think, "That dude is smarter than the rest of us."

I've more than once second guessed myself trying to hang in there and post videos and comment in the wiki threads to help other people play a game that I see has so many flaws this year.

Anyway, if you jump back in the threads, will be good to hear from you. Thanks for the little rec.

Is SimHangout on permanent hiatus this cycle? Or maybe when the season starts?

[cablexdeadpool]

Re: Fast Break AI

There's nothing worse than watching Terrence Jones take a fastbreak stepback three...

Nothing worse than watching guards take fastbreak stepback midrange jumpers...

Nothing worse than watching Tyreke Evans...a slasher...take stepback 3s...


It is just all around bad in MyCareer.

[El_Poopador]

Re: Fast Break AI

There's nothing worse than watching Terrence Jones take a fastbreak stepback three...

Nothing worse than watching guards take fastbreak stepback midrange jumpers...

Nothing worse than watching Tyreke Evans...a slasher...take stepback 3s...


It is just all around bad in MyCareer.

It's not a MyCareer issue; it's every game mode. The clip in my OP was from a Play Now game.

[fluent2332]

Re: Fast Break AI

I was going over some video of my own game play to watch and try to get better, and I decided to break down this play for this thread.

It shows stuff we all know is there, and has been for years. I'm just showing how it's still there and how fast break AI in 2K still has a long, long way to go.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2v9hUusYn9Y" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

I don't really see much wrong with this video to be honest.

To start the play, the PG is in that position for a reason. The point guard decided he didn't want to run the lane with Porzingis leading the break. Many times in the NBA the point guard will stay behind as a release and want the ball immediately, expecting the big guy with the ball to pass the ball back so the PG can advance the ball and either set up the offense or secondary break. Since the point guard in this case didn't feel they had a great fast break opportunity (or trusted Porzingis to lead the break in traffic), he stayed as a release to get the ball back and bring it up the court.

Second, #34 couldn't catch the pass in stride because it wasn't a great pass and it was an awkward angle (he had to turn in a weird way just to catch the pass, thus the animation was correct in this situation). Since he did have to slow himself down to catch the pass, that's why the corner "Usain Bolt" guy was able to sprint and get back in the play. I don't see much of an issue with that, either.

Also, instead of a contested jumper, if you had made one more pass you would have had an open layup/dunk. #14 in the play makes a burst towards the basket as #34 is catching the pass and the defender is committing to defend #34 (the guy with the ball). Just like a good running/hustling big would do in real life, he ran the lane perfectly but you didn't reward him with the pass.

Just my 2 cents. I've seen weird videos and what not but this one just looks pretty harmless. And keep in mind that not every fast break is going to be the exact same. The AI is making decisions and not every decision will necessarily please you, either.

[psydefx]

Re: Fast Break AI

the fast break is a perfect example of how 2k continuously builds on game mechanics yet fails to test them properly. what good is it if it doesn't work?

everything from players stopping for no reason, having a clear and open lane to the hoop, and then deciding to turn around and head to the 3 point line, to just being straight up impeded and fouled from behind with no penalty.

i get the feeling that this won't be fixed until the second (after 1.05) gameplay patch, if at all.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Fast Break AI

I don't really see much wrong with this video to be honest.

To start the play, the PG is in that position for a reason. The point guard decided he didn't want to run the lane with Porzingis leading the break. Many times in the NBA the point guard will stay behind as a release and want the ball immediately, expecting the big guy with the ball to pass the ball back so the PG can advance the ball and either set up the offense or secondary break. Since the point guard in this case didn't feel they had a great fast break opportunity, he stayed as a release to get the ball back and bring it up the court.

I respectfully disagree. The PG took a bump from the defender, and didn't decide to trail. There's nothing in his actions that looks like trailing anyway. Who trails by standing still with his back to the half of the court where the play is?

In this case I dumped the ball to KP because I knew by reflex that keeping the ball in the hands of the guy in traffic who had a defender right on top of him would mean, in 2K17, a very high probability of the ball getting bumped loose again. It's not sim to give the ball to the big man like that but it's necessary in 2k in that situation to dump to an open man to avoid another bump animation turnover.

Second, #34 couldn't catch the pass in stride because it wasn't a great pass and it was an awkward angle (he had to turn in a weird way just to catch the pass, thus the animation was correct in this situation). Since he did have to slow himself down to catch the pass, that's why the corner "Usain Bolt" guy was able to sprint and get back in the play. I don't see much of an issue with that, either.

KP is actually a pretty good passer, and pass catching animations, especially in stride, just haven't been there much for users in this game pretty much ever. The animation for the pass catch is typical of practically all user breaks. I could agree with you maybe if that were not the case, but it is. It's one of those things that slows user breaks down that doesn't really happen to the CPU.

As for the defending SF contesting the shot, can you seriously say a player with 60-70 ratings in speed and acceleration can literally go the full length of the court from the corner, behind the foul line steal, to contest the shot under the hoop, blazing past everyone else on the court? At the same time, the 80-90+ speed/acceleration offensive SG on the other side of the court, foul line extended even with the steal, can barely get to a lane to fill on the weak side of the break, either to the corner or toward the basket?

I don't know what NBA games you watch where that happens, but I haven't seen it. The reason he got there is because the fast break logic assigned him to guard that (his) man, and forced his speed to put him on that man.

Also, instead of a contested jumper, if you had made one more pass you would have had an open layup/dunk. #14 in the play makes a burst towards the basket as #34 is catching the pass and the defender is committing to defend #34 (the guy with the ball). Just like a good running/hustling big would do in real life, he ran the lane perfectly but you didn't reward him with the pass.

#14 in that play is a center who, if you look at the beginning of the clip, was cold with a blue circle. He was cold because he had already turned the ball over twice with his ham hands in this very early part of the first quarter. Passing to him on the move to the hoop would have been a very unwise decision.

But you're right that the shot I took was actually an awful shot and should not have gone in. I should have kicked the ball back out to KP on the wing for an open shot at 3pts.

Doesn't matter. The speed nerfs and boosts and AI glitches are so typical of transition plays that my (bad) choice to take that baseline jumper doesn't negate what's actually happening on the court.