Are secondary archetypes the way to go in 2k18?

[SirGaryColeman]

You have to approach the idea of Archetypes with a team in mind.

The right combo of 5 Archetypes is what you're after, not your individual performance.

However, because MyCareer's offline mode is a solo game - it confuses everything and makes it hard to develop. They should just split these modes up or make it so your character can get 99 in everything in their MyCareer, but not Online.

[infemous]

I've mentioned my idea in a few threads.

I'll quote it in here once I've found it, but essentially, what I want more than anything are MORE TOWERS.

It totally frustrates me that dunking and layups are tied to each other, it is crazy that contested and uncontested shooting is exactly the same.

Its ridiculous that speed with the ball is tied to playmaking.

Its this overly constraining tower system that makes archetypes suck.

Give us more towers to work with, which are more detailed, like:
contested shooting (close, mid, deep)
layups (standing, driving)
dunks (standing, driving)
on ball D (steals, shot contest, blocks)
off ball play (screens, etc.),
mid range shooting (standing and moving)
deep range shooting (standing and moving)
post play (post control, etc.)
speed (speed and with ball - as mentioned earlier, speed with ball should be a 0.xx% of normal speed rating, as should moving shot)
jumping (this should be separated from speed so you can have an athletic rebounder without crazy speed, would also make smaller builds more appealing because of extra vert)
passing (passing accuracy, flashy passing)
dribble moves (sizeups, hesis, crossovers - these should determine which moves you have, so you can master a crossover but not have some of the other moves as good etc.)
etc. etc.

Then let us decide which attributes within the tower we want to boost.

So say in contested shooting, we have a grand total of 140 attribute points to use, we would have to choose whether we want to pour all of it into 3 point or midrange, leaving the other short.

Another idea is to simply put the caps at 85 instead of 93, and see if that creates more balanced players. I don't want a super player, but I want an NBA player, ya dig 2k?

Having a guy who is a 100% bum at certain things unless a playmaker/point forward who can be an all arounder is really boring.

[stevencad123]

My idea is similar to others, with the offline play make it so you can get to a max level of 99 with certain limits still but more elite level stuff like max non archertype skills at 80's.

Then for online make the caps abit harder so everyone online isn't gods, similar to the caps for 2K17. Then maybe 1/2 hof badges 3/5 gold then others bronze

Because at the moment, when you wanna play just in mycareer players are highly limited compared to AI. Can't even get 3 stars in more than 2 areas, because we really running around with average players middle of the bunch compared to other NBA players. Justice has such elite stats compared to our myplayers and the story makes it like your the star

[dnyce87]

Quote: Originally Posted by infemous

I've mentioned my idea in a few threads. I'll quote it in here once I've found it, but essentially, what I want more than anything are MORE TOWERS. It totally frustrates me that dunking and layups are tied to each other, it is crazy that contested and uncontested shooting is exactly the same. Its ridiculous that speed with the ball is tied to playmaking. Its this overly constraining tower system that makes archetypes suck. Give us more towers to work with, which are more detailed, like: contested shooting (close, mid, deep) layups (standing, driving) dunks (standing, driving) on ball D (steals, shot contest, blocks) off ball play (screens, etc.), mid range shooting (standing and moving) deep range shooting (standing and moving) post play (post control, etc.) speed (speed and with ball - as mentioned earlier, speed with ball should be a 0.xx% of normal speed rating, as should moving shot) jumping (this should be separated from speed so you can have an athletic rebounder without crazy speed, would also make smaller builds more appealing because of extra vert) passing (passing accuracy, flashy passing) dribble moves (sizeups, hesis, crossovers - these should determine which moves you have, so you can master a crossover but not have some of the other moves as good etc.) etc. etc. Then let us decide which attributes within the tower we want to boost. So say in contested shooting, we have a grand total of 140 attribute points to use, we would have to choose whether we want to pour all of it into 3 point or midrange, leaving the other short. Another idea is to simply put the caps at 85 instead of 93, and see if that creates more balanced players. I don't want a super player, but I want an NBA player, ya dig 2k? Having a guy who is a 100% bum at certain things unless a playmaker/point forward who can be an all arounder is really boring.

I see what you're saying and I agree with you. You can have all the towers or categories you want, but without the ability to select which attributes within those towers or categories you want to upgrade it is the same exact model as this year, which is frustrating. That's what everyone on these forums is getting around at. That we need to obliterate this idea of grouping attributes together and giving us more freedom of improving our players how we choose.

You see its like a "dummy mode" where 2k has dumbed everything down because timmy doesn't understand what the individual attributes mean nor does he care. Timmy just wants to be a 99 overall to show off to his friends at the park and brag that his player should be good at everything because he's a 99.

This creates a misleading path that your overall is 99 once you fill up those blocks. Little does Timmy know, when you average out the numbers and find the MEAN of your myplayer attributes, your true overall is NOT a 99. So onto my point, instead of 2k creating a helpful tutorial to help casual players understand what these individual attributes actually mean, they just group them altogether into several BIG TOWERS. This makes it easier to understand and less complicated for players like Timmy that would get overwhelmed pouring VC onto random individual attributes (like defensive awareness and pick and roll iq lol) he has no idea about.

Therefore it's like idiot proof so you don't screw up your myplayer putting VC into attributes you don't understand. So they just call it DEFENSE versus all the little detailed attributes that actually mean something when it translates into a real game of X's and O's.

Sent from my SGH-M919N using Tapatalk

[infemous]

Quote: Originally Posted by dnyce87

I see what you're saying and I agree with you. You can have all the towers or categories you want, but without the ability to select which attributes within those towers or categories you want to upgrade it is the same exact model as this year, which is frustrating. That's what everyone on these forums is getting around at. That we need to obliterate this idea of grouping attributes together and giving us more freedom of improving our players how we choose. You see its like a "dummy mode" where 2k has dumbed everything down because timmy doesn't understand what the individual attributes mean nor does he care. Timmy just wants to be a 99 overall to show off to his friends at the park and brag that his player should be good at everything because he's a 99. This creates a misleading path that your overall is 99 once you fill up those blocks. Little does Timmy know, when you average out the numbers and find the MEAN of your myplayer attributes, your true overall is NOT a 99. So onto my point, instead of 2k creating a helpful tutorial to help casual players understand what these individual attributes actually mean, they just group them altogether into several BIG TOWERS. This makes it easier to understand and less complicated for players like Timmy that would get overwhelmed pouring VC onto random individual attributes (like defensive awareness and pick and roll iq lol) he has no idea about. Therefore it's like idiot proof so you don't screw up your myplayer putting VC into attributes you don't understand. So they just call it DEFENSE versus all the little detailed attributes that actually mean something when it translates into a real game of X's and O's. Sent from my SGH-M919N using Tapatalk

Ya not trying to be rude but if you read my post you'd see that the towers are a framework from which you then assign set numbers of attribute points within.

To elaborate: You get say 180 attribute points to assign within deep range shooting. This means that you could put 90 in standing 3, but then only have another 90 to put into both contested and moving, so you could max out contested or split the difference, but one skill would be severely limited. Or you could go for 80 standing 3, 70 contested and 30 moving. The possibilities are endless, and would basically mean every single player is completely unique.

Archetypes would essentially help determine how many attribute points you start with in a tower, so as a slasher you start with 40 in layups and dunks across the board, and your physical dimensions basically determine your max attributes.

I also really like someone else's idea that selecting a body type would determine the caps for your physical attributes, so even if you're tall as hell, you can be super lean, and that affects your strength, ability to do contact dunks, set screens or post up - but ups your speed and lateral quickness.

I am totally in agreement with you. These towers are the reason our MyPlayers are frustrating and less fun to play with. They are also the reason that there is so little diversity in player types. There is no point being a Glass Cleaner unless you're 7'3. But with my suggestion, your glass cleaner could be pretty effective at 6'9 with crazy vert and strength, and also be able to move around the court a little bit better.

I also feel that the position you choose should have a slight boost in a particular role (say 15 attribute points)
PG: Passing
SG: Scoring - select shooting or dunks/layups
SF - Defense (outside) or Scoring - select shooting or dunks/layups
PF - Post or Defense (interior)
C - Rebounding

This would mean that players would choose a position depending on the way they play - we wouldn't have all these 3 point shooting PGs who have sole control of the offense in Pro Am, and would hopefully promote people to use various positions for various roles.

[Chemthethriller]

I still think a limited number of upgradable badges to gold would make people get to feel more unique. You don't really need a full secondary archetype.

Example:
LDD
3 HoF badges (defensive stopper, pick pocket, pick dodger)
3 badges you can upgrade to gold
Now this is where everyone's players start feeling different as some people will pick corner specialist and now are a threat, where other sports will go for hustle rebounder, or rim protector, or even posterizer.

Now when you are playing against this LDD you have to step out to the 3 or he could have drop stepper which will get you also... but each individual LDD will play more so into the strengths of that player and you will get a better feel.

The oooonly problem I could see with this system is defensive stopper being on every player and making all badges basically worthless.

If this is an issue maybe make it so one badge per archetype can't be selected (i.e. Ankle breaker, limitless range, defensive stopper, drop stepper, mid range dead eye)

[dnyce87]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chemthethriller

I still think a limited number of upgradable badges to gold would make people get to feel more unique. You don't really need a full secondary archetype. Example: LDD 3 HoF badges (defensive stopper, pick pocket, pick dodger) 3 badges you can upgrade to gold Now this is where everyone's players start feeling different as some people will pick corner specialist and now are a threat, where other sports will go for hustle rebounder, or rim protector, or even posterizer. Now when you are playing against this LDD you have to step out to the 3 or he could have drop stepper which will get you also... but each individual LDD will play more so into the strengths of that player and you will get a better feel. The oooonly problem I could see with this system is defensive stopper being on every player and making all badges basically worthless. If this is an issue maybe make it so one badge per archetype can't be selected (i.e. Ankle breaker, limitless range, defensive stopper, drop stepper, mid range dead eye)

That's where the cheesefest comes in. Imagine a Rim Protector C or a Stretch C having:

Ankle Breaker
One Man Fast Break
Pick & Roll Maestro

All on gold.....that's what we have to avoid is badges that don't match up with your ratings or your player at all.

[dnyce87]

Quote: Originally Posted by infemous

Ya not trying to be rude but if you read my post you'd see that the towers are a framework from which you then assign set numbers of attribute points within. To elaborate: You get say 180 attribute points to assign within deep range shooting. This means that you could put 90 in standing 3, but then only have another 90 to put into both contested and moving, so you could max out contested or split the difference, but one skill would be severely limited. Or you could go for 80 standing 3, 70 contested and 30 moving. The possibilities are endless, and would basically mean every single player is completely unique. Archetypes would essentially help determine how many attribute points you start with in a tower, so as a slasher you start with 40 in layups and dunks across the board, and your physical dimensions basically determine your max attributes. I also really like someone else's idea that selecting a body type would determine the caps for your physical attributes, so even if you're tall as hell, you can be super lean, and that affects your strength, ability to do contact dunks, set screens or post up - but ups your speed and lateral quickness. I am totally in agreement with you. These towers are the reason our MyPlayers are frustrating and less fun to play with. They are also the reason that there is so little diversity in player types. There is no point being a Glass Cleaner unless you're 7'3. But with my suggestion, your glass cleaner could be pretty effective at 6'9 with crazy vert and strength, and also be able to move around the court a little bit better. I also feel that the position you choose should have a slight boost in a particular role (say 15 attribute points) PG: Passing SG: Scoring - select shooting or dunks/layups SF - Defense (outside) or Scoring - select shooting or dunks/layups PF - Post or Defense (interior) C - Rebounding This would mean that players would choose a position depending on the way they play - we wouldn't have all these 3 point shooting PGs who have sole control of the offense in Pro Am, and would hopefully promote people to use various positions for various roles.

I got a chance to read this and I actually like your idea as long as they individualize the attributes and not put them in towers again.

I like the idea for the "Athletic" part of your players attributes to be body type related and in relation to height & weight. Only problem is how will it translate to in game? Weight still doesn't play a factor at all nor does strength from my experience. I could have a PG with minimal strength and still OP some players that have higher strength when I attack the rim. It needs to matter more so that it is more difficult choosing how you want to build your character.