NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

[Fitnessboy]

From what i saw in the trailer and the screenshot, i am not so much impressed like every year with 2K and that is the muscle tone on every player what are just like Lebron or Giannis they are completly ripped and buffed but in game the muscles like the arms or caves you dont see any lines, like in real life when clearly the players have these.
I hope that they fix this year.
What are your thoughts about this?

[XxRnSxX]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

That’s it’s too early to tell really anything but I wouldn’t my breathe in thinking 2k would do this correctly.

[Americas Team]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

I rather them under do the muscle tone than over do it.

Sent from my [Honor 6X] using Operation Sports mobile app

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

From what i saw in the trailer and the screenshot, i am not so much impressed like every year with 2K and that is the muscle tone on every player what are just like Lebron or Giannis they are completly ripped and buffed but in game the muscles like the arms or caves you dont see any lines, like in real life when clearly the players have these.
I hope that they fix this year.
What are your thoughts about this?

My thoughts is that 2k18's upper body muscle tone is closer to reality than it is not. The below is my quote from a different thread. Lebron is solid muscle, but it does not mean he's completely ripped.

Regarding muscle definition. I made about post about this last year. The muscle definition in 2k18 is actually more correct than it is not. Spoiler tag contains three short video clips from the NBA 2016-17 finals (up close shots of NBA players during a game).

Spoiler

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball/912834-nba-2k18-screenshots-ratings-towns-giannis-beal-ross-more-8.html

Muscle definition:

Google image search vs TV broadcast and players in motion makes a major difference

This will be my first time speaking about muscle definition. I keep hearing about guys needing to look more ripped. Understandable, but at the same time, here's the thing ...

2k is looking to create a TV broadcast look. Even for players that are extremely muscular defined, the muscle cut aren't as extremely defined when players are in motion and watching broadcast NBA televised games.

You can't really use "google image search" when it comes to muscle definition as a blueprint because camera flash or photos taken with high definition camera captures a different aesthetic flavor. You need to use real NBA footage where the players are actually in motion. This is why player models in NBA2k14 wasn't as accurate as people say they were, and also in NBA Live overall where everyone is built extremely muscular. Everyone in 2k14 was built with extreme muscle cuts. That's not normal with real NBA footage.

What 2k is famous for is players in motion. They look realistic and they move realistic. Adding intense muscle definition could jeopardize this aspect. Just a guess.

Just the same as pre-workout and post-workout body image. Immediately after lifting weights, your muscles tend to be incredibly defined, you look your best immediately after a workout. You look ripped. As the hours go by, you begin to look "softer." You may still be cut if you're already cut and conditioned well, but you're not going to look as muscular defined. A lot of fitness photoshoot may have the person do some push, pullup or whatever just prior to shooting to give a more muscular cut/lean look.

What 2k or other games will need is an animation system that simulates a muscle flexed state (partial, intense, heavy, etc.) vs their unflexed natural state. I don't want to see extreme muscle cuts when the majority of the time, the athletes' muscle isn't in the extreme flexed state. More often than not even when flexed and moving, their muscles are on the softer side, and I think 2k does a very good job with it.

I personally want to experience and see what I would see on TV, not what I would see on google image.

Click on spoiler tag for more real live NBA broadcast footage showing players' muscle definition don't match that of google image search. Muscle definition during live broadcast is much more subtle.

Example 1
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wAqjE9fLbnA" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>




Example 2
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y9NZhErUdrs" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Example 3
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TQw8LhftEAM" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Screen capture from NBA finals (2 years ago). Shows what "muscle definition" actually looks during a real NBA broadcast.

Spoiler

[sva91]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

Muscle tone isn’t great, but it’s passable from a distance. Lower bodies are just so bad from all angles. I wish they’d work on that more than anything.


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[dilladawg4]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

Muscle tone isn’t great, but it’s passable from a distance. Lower bodies are just so bad from all angles. I wish they’d work on that more than anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I agree on the lower body point. They actually looked better proportioned back in earlier years.

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[Goffs]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

I agree on the lower body point. They actually looked better proportioned back in earlier years.

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No they did not...they all had cankles in the past. They actually did a little better job on 2k18. They need to make it a bit smaller especially the calves.

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[49UNCFan]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

It's not the muscle tone, I feel it's the texture quality.

[sva91]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

It's not the muscle tone, I feel it's the texture quality.

Skin textures are def not as high quality as before, but if you just look at their silhouettes you’ll see how bad the lower bodies are. I’ve been Wanting to do a whole thread dissecting and explaining, but I feel the art team knows they’re not perfect, but they might not be able to fix player models just due to some technical limitation or issue.


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[El_Poopador]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

My thoughts is that 2k18's upper body muscle tone is closer to reality than it is not. The below is my quote from a different thread. Lebron is solid muscle, but it does not mean he's completely ripped.

I disagree here partially. The videos here are very fuzzy compared to a live broadcast, as they were compressed and uploaded to Youtube. That takes away a lot of the definition and clarity you would see live on TV.

Second, even if the muscle definition itself (the "cut" lines) were accurate, the overall separation between muscles is not good at all. On most players, even those who aren't ripped, you can clearly see separation between shoulders and biceps, biceps and elbows/forearms, etc. But in 2k, everyone's muscles kind of just melt into each other.

Andre Iguodala is a great example of this, as he has very obvious separation in real life that is not represented at all in the game. Even something like Lebron's traps that are very well defined and noticeable even in the fuzzy Youtube clips are nonexistent in-game.



Even here, using a low-res image of Lebron dribbling, you can see clear separation where his shoulder ends and his bicep begins. That separation is very subtle in 2K. His forearm muscle is also pretty much straight across in the game.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tone

Spoiler

I disagree here partially. The videos here are very fuzzy compared to a live broadcast, as they were compressed and uploaded to Youtube. That takes away a lot of the definition and clarity you would see live on TV.

Second, even if the muscle definition itself (the "cut" lines) were accurate, the overall separation between muscles is not good at all. On most players, even those who aren't ripped, you can clearly see separation between shoulders and biceps, biceps and elbows/forearms, etc. But in 2k, everyone's muscles kind of just melt into each other.

Andre Iguodala is a great example of this, as he has very obvious separation in real life that is not represented at all in the game. Even something like Lebron's traps that are very well defined and noticeable even in the fuzzy Youtube clips are nonexistent in-game.



Even here, using a low-res image of Lebron dribbling, you can see clear separation where his shoulder ends and his bicep begins. That separation is very subtle in 2K. His forearm muscle is also pretty much straight across in the game.

Notice that you’re also using a photograph where the background shot is blurred. That’s not a "TV camera" shot.

Is that an in game TV shot or a picture from a high powered DSLR camera by one of the many photographers. Do we have the same type of lighting in that shot versus 2k18? Because I do think proper lighting would treat the players muscle definition better. Personally, I think the lighting in 2k18 is still far from ideal. I still see a "clayness" to them if that makes sense.

2k basketball still haven’t perfected realistic TV lighting. Obviously different type of lighting, but video footage of Gran Turismo can be mistaken for real life. NBA 2k14’s trailer with Lebron walking in slow motion is the closest to blurring the lines between 2k basketball and reality.

I’m not saying 2k18’s muscle definition is perfect, I’m simply saying it’s closer to reality than it is not when it comes to "how definely cut" a player should be. Yes, there’s a smoothness to the muscle lines, but I don’t want to see a situation where 2k14 has everyone built like a tank, with extreme muscle cuts to the point where it looks like they’re always flexing, or in a state of constant isometric contraction similar to NBA Live.

Yes, the traps for certain 2k18 player models is severely lacking.

If you get a chance to see the front and back view of 2k14 players from the front and back view, they’re all very well define. Tony Parker’s 14 model sticks out like a sore thumb, as if he’s doing "shrugs" always just like most players in 2k14.

EDIT: Since we know 2k uses only a handful of player models to represent all players, do we want everyone ripped or models that is more in line with the majority of players in the league?

I’m also more concerned about getting players body proportioned right first. Anthony Davis’ legs in 2k18 and most of the big men are terribly proportioned. His leg in 2k18 is like a stump.

[crques]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

From what i saw in the trailer and the screenshot, i am not so much impressed like every year with 2K and that is the muscle tone on every player what are just like Lebron or Giannis they are completly ripped and buffed but in game the muscles like the arms or caves you dont see any lines, like in real life when clearly the players have these.
I hope that they fix this year.
What are your thoughts about this?

The 2K PS4/Xbox One muscle tones in the arms have bothered me for a while. They are a real eyesore sometimes because they are so bland and plain in texture without much definition. As crazy as it sounds, I miss the bulked up blocky muscled 2K players from the PS3 days. Sure they were simpler, but I like them better than these new versions.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

The first thought that's going through my mind is...can the hardware handle it?

[El_Poopador]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tone

Notice that you’re also using a photograph where the background shot is blurred. That’s not a "TV camera" shot.

Is that an in game TV shot or a picture from a high powered DSLR camera by one of the many photographers. Do we have the same type of lighting in that shot versus 2k18? Because I do think proper lighting would treat the players muscle definition better. Personally, I think the lighting in 2k18 is still far from ideal. I still see a "clayness" to them if that makes sense.

2k basketball still haven’t perfected realistic TV lighting. Obviously different type of lighting, but video footage of Gran Turismo can be mistaken for real life. NBA 2k14’s trailer with Lebron walking in slow motion is the closest to blurring the lines between 2k basketball and reality.

I’m not saying 2k18’s muscle definition is perfect, I’m simply saying it’s closer to reality than it is not when it comes to "how definely cut" a player should be. Yes, there’s a smoothness to the muscle lines, but I don’t want to see a situation where 2k14 has everyone built like a tank, with extreme muscle cuts to the point where it looks like they’re always flexing, or in a state of constant isometric contraction similar to NBA Live.

Yes, the traps for certain 2k18 player models is severely lacking.

If you get a chance to see the front and back view of 2k14 players from the front and back view, they’re all very well define. Tony Parker’s 14 model sticks out like a sore thumb, as if he’s doing "shrugs" always just like most players in 2k14.

EDIT: Since we know 2k uses only a handful of player models to represent all players, do we want everyone ripped or models that is more in line with the majority of players in the league?

I’m also more concerned about getting players body proportioned right first. Anthony Davis’ legs in 2k18 and most of the big men are terribly proportioned. His leg in 2k18 is like a stump.

The picture I used was only to demonstrate my point about the muscle separation. I was just looking for a shot from a similar angle as the screenshot from the game.

But even in the videos from your post, you can see that separation clearly from near and far on multiple players.

[Trackball]

Re: NBA 2K19 Muscle tones

I don't care if they're XKCD stick figures.

Does the game play well?