Breakaway Speed

[bls]

Seems like everyone can keep up with anyone on the fast break. There is no separation on fast breaks, almost like a force field in front of you.

Or you do the stupid jump turn around to catch the ball when it's passed to you on a break.

[Makeufamous NDZ]

Re: Breakaway Speed

Seems like everyone can keep up with anyone on the fast break. There is no separation on fast breaks, almost like a force field in front of you.

Or you do the stupid jump turn around to catch the ball when it's passed to you on a break.

Yup Exactly!!!.. In my opinion one of the biggest problems with this game is that the players individual ratings seems not to matter at all... What 2K has done essentially is make every player play the same. The CPU plays lock down defense now... every player and every team!!! Which is highly unrealistic. The CPU won't allow you drive on them, PERIOD!!!... no matter if you have an open lane to the rack, or if you are a faster more agile player... The CPU will block your path no matter the situation.

And yes as you stated on fast breaks they will run with you stride for stride all the way... It's like the CPU is magnetized to you defensively this year. It will make wanna throw the controller against the wall...

[jmarcguy]

Re: Breakaway Speed

I had just started a thread about this in the slider section. I had what should've been a clear path to the hoop. No one around me. Then two players sped up and were right behind me & were literally on my heels. The slowed me down & all I could get was a weak layup attempt.

Fastbreaks definitely need a tweak.

[BluFu]

Re: Breakaway Speed

Was just. going to make a thread about this

https://youtu.be/3TdfqwUyt2s

That is way too slow for the fastest players in the league

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Breakaway Speed

I understand what you guys are saying. While I was looking for videos for a completely unrelated topic, I stumbled onto the following video (below). It was interesting to see how the ball handler slows himself down when he should have had a clear path to the hoop (#60, #58, #57).

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that there isn't a potential problem with 2k, but just wanted to point out that chase downs/ability for the defender to keep in general does/can happen. With faster 2k players, I do notice that break away speed does work like it should.

Yes, these are 'highlights' and this doesn't usually happen on fastbreaks, I completely understand that. It's just something to chew on, think about, when we want something fixed. If I have the time, I would run more test.

But yes, defenders able to keep up could be certainly a potential problem.

What could be a problem is if you are in fact using turbo and pushing the stick to maximum and 2k still slows you down, that could be a problem.

#60, #58, #57
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2eHezHZ1Z5c" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bw96rsIH0Dg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Makeufamous NDZ]

Re: Breakaway Speed

I understand what you guys are saying. While I was looking for videos for a completely unrelated topic, I stumbled onto the following video (below). It was interesting to see how the ball handler slows himself down when he should have had a clear path to the hoop (#60, #58, #57).

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that there isn't a potential problem with 2k, but just wanted to point out that chase downs/ability for the defender to keep in general does/can happen. With faster 2k players, I do notice that break away speed does work like it should.

Yes, these are 'highlights' and this doesn't usually happen on fastbreaks, I completely understand that. It's just something to chew on, think about, when we want something fixed. If I have the time, I would run more test.

But yes, defenders able to keep up could be certainly a potential problem.

What could be a problem is if you are in fact using turbo and pushing the stick to maximum and 2k still slows you down, that could be a problem.

#60, #58, #57
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2eHezHZ1Z5c" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bw96rsIH0Dg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I understand what you're saying, and yes you're right, there are situations where a player can chase down the ball handler or keep up with him... but that still should be determined by their individual ratings.. namely "speed, acceleration, lateral quickness...etc". But thats not what's happening in 2K19... the CPU is programmed to keep up with the USER. The defense just seems overly aggressive in general.

To me it's not just the fast breaks, it's the overall defense in this game. It seems that 2K is basically overriding the players own ratings and making them keep up with the USER... And this is true when it comes to one on one situations as well. Just saying if I am... let's say LeBron and I am trying to drive to the basket against a much smaller, weaker defender like... let's say Steph Curry, the odds should heavily sway in LeBron's favor. But that is not how it plays out on screen... Curry will all of a sudden become 1st Team All-Defense because when we meet I will be greeted with an invisible wall that will prevent my size, speed and quickness from becoming relevant.

And that is 100% 2K causing that effect... as ratings are taken out of the equation at that point. And that is the same result for every player and every team in this game. It doesn't seem to matter whether you're playing against the Magic or the Celtics, the defense is always the same when playing the CPU... And I'm sorry but, I don't see much realism in that!!!

That's a serious problem to me!!!

[jmarcguy]

Re: Breakaway Speed

I don't mind if certain guys who are fast catch me. It's wrong though when they crowd me and slow me down. I wonder if there's a slider setting to change?

[Unknown721]

Re: Breakaway Speed

Speed threshold is too low. Min of 30, max of 70. Spread across on/off ball on offense or defense.

[CaseIH]

Re: Breakaway Speed

I think this is a area where NBA2k has always struggled with. IRL you see break away fastbreaks, due to the defense being lazy and not hustling back. Ive always felt lowering the hustle slider of the CPU helps a tad. Im sure this is difficult for the devs to code.

I think the speed and acceleration with and without ball of fast and slow players, probably needs a bigger gap than the 70/30 split they have now, although I have not messed with it yet. Still trying to code laziness on defense is probably tricky. I always do a massive edit with my roster I take into ML each yr with the hustle ratings, so lazy players defensively like Melo and Harden to name a couple, are lowered down quite a bit, along with their defense attributes. I started doing this a couple yrs ago, but do to crappy sim stats, and constant editing of players and sliders by the time Im ready to start a ML, its baseball season is here, and Im burnt on on NBA2k by then, due to all the editing. So I cant say for sure how much of a role editing hustle way down for lazy defensive players along with lowering their defensive attributes as well way down. to know for sure just how much it helps allieviate the problem.


I havent played enough since this latest patch so maybe something changed, but I thought when 19 1st came out, that break aways on fastbreaks were improved from yrs past, although not perfect by any means. I hope they didnt screw this up as well with this latest patch and made it worse.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Breakaway Speed

Spoiler

I understand what you're saying, and yes you're right, there are situations where a player can chase down the ball handler or keep up with him... but that still should be determined by their individual ratings.. namely "speed, acceleration, lateral quickness...etc". But thats not what's happening in 2K19... the CPU is programmed to keep up with the USER. The defense just seems overly aggressive in general.

To me it's not just the fast breaks, it's the overall defense in this game. It seems that 2K is basically overriding the players own ratings and making them keep up with the USER... And this is true when it comes to one on one situations as well. Just saying if I am... let's say LeBron and I am trying to drive to the basket against a much smaller, weaker defender like... let's say Steph Curry, the odds should heavily sway in LeBron's favor. But that is not how it plays out on screen... Curry will all of a sudden become 1st Team All-Defense because when we meet I will be greeted with an invisible wall that will prevent my size, speed and quickness from becoming relevant.

And that is 100% 2K causing that effect... as ratings are taken out of the equation at that point. And that is the same result for every player and every team in this game. It doesn't seem to matter whether you're playing against the Magic or the Celtics, the defense is always the same when playing the CPU... And I'm sorry but, I don't see much realism in that!!!

That's a serious problem to me!!!

I hear what you’re saying; I’m not saying I disagree either. I know exactly what you’re talking about when you say 2k is slowing things down. I’ve felt those moments as well, but it’s probably not as simple as just ‘speed, acceleration, etc.’ I’m using those video examples to illustrate a realism point — footwork. Holiday is probably quicker than Klay, CP3 probably is also faster than Hayward, etc.

If you look at those specific examples (all 4 examples), you’ll see the offensive player ‘thinking’ about how many steps it’s going to take for them to either dunk or do a layup and that unfortunately slows them down (notice how they’re gathering themselves as they approach the basket, look at their foot/leg speed compared to the defender), CP3 even does this side step thingy instead of a straight line to the basket. The defenders however is simply thinking about running as fast as they can.

[m29a]

Re: Breakaway Speed

To me it's not just the fast breaks, it's the overall defense in this game. It seems that 2K is basically overriding the players own ratings and making them keep up with the USER... And this is true when it comes to one on one situations as well. Just saying if I am... let's say LeBron and I am trying to drive to the basket against a much smaller, weaker defender like... let's say Steph Curry, the odds should heavily sway in LeBron's favor. But that is not how it plays out on screen... Curry will all of a sudden become 1st Team All-Defense because when we meet I will be greeted with an invisible wall that will prevent my size, speed and quickness from becoming relevant.

Absolutely agreed. The way the on-ball AI defenders play in 2K19 do not represent at all how it is in real life. The body checks alone would be fouls in real life, straight up. But that's not even considering how the AI can somehow mirror your input and recover ridiculously fast. You certainly can drive, I'm not acting like it's impossible, but it's simply not portrayed realistically. And it's odd to me how some users who want the game to be as sim/real as possible are okay with how 2K19 does it.

[jmarcguy]

Re: Breakaway Speed

I understand this is difficult to program. We want the CPU to play intelligent defense but also want there to be lapses & players out of position. When I get a turnover and outlet the ball, the defensive player should take a second to gather himself and change position. My problem is been the ability of the CPU to catch up to me and show me down. Chasedowns should definitely happen but occasional breakaway dunks should also.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Breakaway Speed

This was a lot better in 2K18.

Hate that it went backwards.

I had a guy literally come from behind me and convert me into a cut off animation on a fast break in a recent game....not a good look.

I dont agree that you cant take advantage of obvious mismatches though. You just have to be a bit more thoughtful than last year.

Curry on LeBron is a perfect example because we've seen it 4 years in a row now. He doesnt just phase through curry for an easy dunk every time because it's an obvious physical mismatch. Positioning still has to be respected.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Breakaway Speed

Was just. going to make a thread about this

https://youtu.be/3TdfqwUyt2s

That is way too slow for the fastest players in the league

I’ve been saying this about 2k for years. Players are always WAY too slow. There is no reason I should be able to run the length of the court faster than a professional athlete.

Haven’t they clocked players at like 2.something seconds on the past? Not 6 or so lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crossover1]

Re: Breakaway Speed

This was a lot better in 2K18.

Hate that it went backwards.

I had a guy literally come from behind me and convert me into a cut off animation on a fast break in a recent game....not a good look.

I dont agree that you cant take advantage of obvious mismatches though. You just have to be a bit more thoughtful than last year.

Curry on LeBron is a perfect example because we've seen it 4 years in a row now. He doesnt just phase through curry for an easy dunk every time because it's an obvious physical mismatch. Positioning still has to be respected.

Yeah that cut off thing was in previous 2Ks until 2K18 but now that offensive players are stuck in molasses once near a defender, it made a comeback. The physics in this game is completely off, from acceleration to max speed to deceleration. Then when you take their "one fits all" animations into account, it makes everything worse.

For example, the fastest player will slow down significantly when a defender is right behind you on a break due to the back riding animation. On the other hand, the slowest players will get a huge speed boost because they share the same animations.

There's no way that a player like Cousins should press Kyrie at half court then when I attempt a blow by, Cousins is either stuck with Kyrie going all the way to the rim or I get cut off as if Kawhi is defending Kyle Korver. All because those animations aren't exclusive to elite defenders.