Pure glass cleaner == easy mode

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by howardphillips214

So let's just nerf everything in the game, then. Rebounders aren't supposed to rebound, sharps aren't supposed to shoot 3s and slashers were already nerfed so there's that. Instead of "this games broken" can people start offering alternatives or solutions? 3 point success is OP and it's not just sharps. I can green with a 62 3 ball wide open. Yes, sharps are the ones who benefit the most, but it's the sliders that enable them to shoot like that online. Plus the lack of balanced defense and the weight of shot contests. Maybe if other big builds had better mechanics to win the battles down low then the GC would be more balanced. If boxing out meant more in the game then GCs could stay the same. If ratings inside mattered then 90+ standing layup ratings would be more enticing. Standing at the top of a mountain yelling that the game is broken doesn't do anyone good. Unless you're willing to provide options to the current meta, you're not helping.

see unlike some. i dont just cry. i actually have offered specific programming logic(not actual code but the logic) of how to fix these archetypes. i did it for the sharps, and I did it for the bigs in multiple threads. THEY DONT WANT TO FIX IT. because to them it aint broken. they like the game the way it is save for a few issues here and there. they did this on purpose. there is no way experienced devs and producers would do that to a build or some of these builds while going thru a testing phase and not laugh and say "wow this one is a bit over powered and this one is way under powered. " they knew it pre release and yet this is what they chose to go with. WHY is the question. i would like to know just for my own sanity. lol. I want to understand their logic behind doing that. i'm sure it has less to do with actual basketball and more to do with selling games/vc. but i'm not sure of the specifics of how those things relate. would be an interesting thing to learn.

So I'll give you some basic logic in how you correctly create pure Reb archs.

Look around the nba. name the pure rebs. look around the nba all time guys, name the pure rebs.

Then ask yourself, how did they get those rebounds? strength(crazy box out ability), craftiness(doing all kinds of tricks, grabbing holding, clutching guys arms, locking arms, etc.), speed/quicks/Hops, Length/reach.

Then look at the height of each guy, the weight of each guy and see how they got those boards. I will bet you kenneth Farried at his prime status(shame he aint the same guy anymore) was a monster on the glass. He had a nice combination of quicks, super hops, and strength, reach(even though he wasn't the normal height of a PF or C.

Ben wallace, similar to Kenneth but a couple of inches taller. had the hops and strength, and quicks to get on the glass.

Rodman, had the reach, super quick/agile/, super crafty, extremely quick hops and could get up with the best of them.

Shaq was a good rebounder but not great for a guy with his combination of strength, size, reach, athleticism.

There were guys like yao who grabbed boards but were not known as rebounders per se even though you would see a 7'3+ guy and automatically think he should own the glass. well maybe not. how many 7'1+ dudes were known as pure rebounders? or rebounders period? not many. there's a reason for that. those big boys are usually not as quick or fast as shaq at that size/height. they are no where near as quick to the long bounces off the rim or the quick weird bounces off the glass/rim after a shot goes up. big boys that hit 7'1+ usually dont have that agility to get to the ball like that. their instinct to move kicks in a bit slower than a kenneth F, dennis rodman or a Ben wallace.

Which is why if you wanted to make a master rebounder, why dont i see more dudes that are 6'10 or 6'9? Because 2k has not put that kind of logic in the game to make it more realistic. see the more realistic the ball physics is, the more realistic the archetypes can be.

The rebounders are made with logic that actually makes them magnets for the ball. meaning They get semi close to where the ball may go and the ball starts to go towards their hands and their area. Thats not realistic. The ball in real life is its own entity and has its own trajectory based on physics(where it came off the rim/backboard, how much speed, at what angle, did someone tip it, etc, etc.) its independent of anyone else on the court. Not so in 2k. Why? because it takes a lot of time and effort to create great ball physics that is independent of people once its in the air. its hard to pull off. so most devs are asked to lessen the load. so they end up choosing to take the easy route. most everyday gamers dont know what i'm talking about because they dont understand programming logic. or never cared about physics like that. but reading what i just typed and you go play a 2k game you can feel what i'm saying is true. This is the biggest flaw in 2k or perhaps live as well(not sure havent had the large sample size in the past few years to know for sure). But its that everything in the game is glued together by other people or things in the game. nothing is independent.

i gave similar examples when talking about how the aura of a defender should not make you do Weird silly animations.

if prime KG stood underneath the backboard with his hands up. Me, at 6'2 never played a nba game in my life. would lay that ball up with ease as if KG wasnt around. you know why? because from my time playing basketball i know you can't block shots when you're underneath the backboard/rim. you will end up hitting your hand on the bottom of one of those things and that hurts, you could end up breaking your hand/finger(s). if you did. So why would 2k allow a defender's aura to even take place that deep in the paint? because they are trying to use that arch to NERF other archs abilities to score in the paint even when they have horrible positioning. which means even if you the offense big makes a good move, there's a 50% chance that 2k wont allow you to make the shot based on some false aura of a defender in your way when he isnt in the area to bother your shot if it were real life.

2k built a game on a foundation of arcadeism/cartoonish behavior. sure there are some things that you see that look very realistic. but the foundation was never built on realism. this is why even when they sometimes attempt to make it more realistic they end up making it worse some where else in the game.

[splashmountain]

And if you wanted to be truthful, how should these archetypes be setup? some people think they should get rid of them. I dont. i think the idea is a great idea. i just think the implementation of it per real hoop is flawed.

You want to make archs...fine. let us choose our archs at the beginning of our journey, give us badges that are easier to get with our archs. But have all badges open to be had. just make them super hard to get based on your arch type, your height/weight/position you play.

this is how you end up properly creating an embiid without missing something when being stuck on 2 archs knowing good and well he can do other things.

The game should be based on your VIP progression/changes.

meaning. I pick my 2 archs.
Therefore its easier to get those badges for those archs and its easier to rank up in those areas on my player ratings.

But i have to earn that stuff by how i play and practice. I should be able to be free to TRY to do anything i like. if i create a 7'2, 280lb big boy. and I choose pure reb. I still should be able to work on my 3 ball. but it should take Crazy Long hours to be able to raise my 3 ball stats enough to be decent at shooting it. and here's how you make sure its not OP.

While you work on one thing and use it in games. other things that you dont use start to suffer (less when it comes to things you archs specialize in but much faster with things you dont specialize in.)

for instance. you start really shooting that 3 ball in games and working on that in practice. your 3 is now at a 68 for a pure reb big. But where youre off and def rebounding is currently sitting at 85, its now slipping and is now at 82 because you have been off the glass the last 5 or so games. if you get back on the glass and get away from shooting 3's. that 3 drastically drops since thats not your arch/build. you had a 68 3pter. but you havent launched a good to perfect release 3 in 5 games. that 68 is now a 61.

^^Thats how arch/builds/ 2k my players should work. all badges are open, all ratings can be changed up or down. all dependent on how you play with your guy. This will create Creativity on the part of all users. no one player would ever be the same in this way. because there will never be a moment where any two people are playing even their same initial builds the exact same way. vs what you have now which is not realistic to real life. where you can see in pro am leagues and nba 2k league a bunch of the exact same guys playing the exact same way with each build. some hitting a few more shots than others deciding who wins. Boooooring.

Lastly, if you stop playing the game for long stretches. your guy loses his abilities slowly. This will force people to stay playing your game. it will be a real life basketball grind. now hey, do you want to buy VC to have your guy slowly work on things to just maintain himself while you're away? thats on you. you can do that. they could have trainers that you have to pay for with VC and make them super duper expensive. but those guys can help your guy train in other areas while you're on the game(you will get better faster) or off the game( You will get better but much much slower.)

this is how 2k gets to make money and the users are still happy with how the game is setup.

Now i just gave them a formula that can be implemented right now. will they use it?

[Foldzy]

I find glass cleaners often just take a lot of rebounds that your team would get anyways and as a sharp/athletic I actually prefer to play without one because they tend to clog the lane on offense

[jyoung]

Quote: Originally Posted by Foldzy

I find glass cleaners often just take a lot of rebounds that your team would get anyways and as a sharp/athletic I actually prefer to play without one because they tend to clog the lane on offense

I will gladly give up 3, 4, even 5 rebounds a game to have a center on my team who can contribute something offensively besides screens and dunks.

Having better spacing and more scoring options on every possession of your offense >>>>>>>> a few extra rebounds.

[Thrustie]

Quote: Originally Posted by splashmountain

um, you have glass cleaner in your build. thats all that matters. pure is beyond op, especially if they are much taller than you are. even if you get to the spots before them half the time it does not matter. this is the point that makes me wonder what level of comp are some of you guys playing against. maybe if the guy is a pure or a rebounder of any type is horrible at the game it wont help them much. but if you're half way decent. its way over powered. its not that you can't hang, its the amt of work you have to put in to just HANG. I now have a pure of my own so everything i have said on OS since the game dropped i was spot on about and actually the build is even more over powered than i first thought. I also have two other big builds. so i have more than enough test cases to say yes, its a way OP build. you may not know this if you dont have a pure. they do not have to work nearly as hard for position. just hit the jump button and be semi close. its a wrap half the time. The game will intentionally try to give them better/ more chances to grab boards than other builds(defenders are quicker jumpers so they snag like crazy too, especially if they're a mix between defender and rebounder.

Yeah I put Rebounding in my build because I wanted to be good at rebounding... I mean that kind of goes without saying. I’m 6’11 and outrebound Pure GC 7’3ers regularly. I average 13.5 a game and that’s even with guarding stretches a lot because I get put at the 4. I’ve played over 500 games so I’ve played every level of comp imaginable. Obviously it’s harder to keep a skilled GC off the glass as opposed to an unskilled one.

I know I have to work harder to snag on a Pure GC but that’s how it should be, shouldn’t it? The same way he has to work harder to score than I do. Aside from the fact that inside scoring blows, I don’t think 2K has done a terrible job balancing big builds (Stretch 4s being the exception).

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thrustie

Yeah I put Rebounding in my build because I wanted to be good at rebounding... I mean that kind of goes without saying. I’m 6’11 and outrebound Pure GC 7’3ers regularly. I average 13.5 a game and that’s even with guarding stretches a lot because I get put at the 4. I’ve played over 500 games so I’ve played every level of comp imaginable. Obviously it’s harder to keep a skilled GC off the glass as opposed to an unskilled one. I know I have to work harder to snag on a Pure GC but that’s how it should be, shouldn’t it? The same way he has to work harder to score than I do. Aside from the fact that inside scoring blows, I don’t think 2K has done a terrible job balancing big builds (Stretch 4s being the exception).

i hear you talking but i know what i know to be true. and since I'm not the only person that has stated this. since I have friends who had to come to grips with this reality and they have had the same builds. and since i now have a pure reb build. there is no way anyone on OS or any where else is going to prove to me that what i see with my eyes in all of these scenarios is not true. i have too much evidence. its like the one guys thread talking about sharps aint OP. stop it. we all know they are. just because you're one of those people that dont study the shot animations and dont have the release going. doesnt mean what we all know to be true isnt true. pure GC's are OP. period. when i say you have to work hard to keep up. i'm not saying because they are skilled. i'm saying they dont have to do much at all to grab boards because 2k makes the ball pop towards their hand because of their build and badges. and they wont call over the back nearly enough due to their arch/badges.

Truth is. i shouldnt have to choose a reb arch to be a good rebounder.
If my guy is tall enough/long enough, has enough strength and weight, and I the user knows how to anticipate very well, get in position and box my man out. I should get the board MOST of the time. sure some times a nice over the back no call is legit. but thats not how the game works. but that is how real life works. there's a reason a skinny 6'6 youngin name lonzo ball can grab 10 rebounds when we know there are trees in there that are taller and bigger than him and they also have hops. how is it possible that he's snagging like that in real life? because he's quick enough and he has the proper anticipation as well as proper box out technique when in good position. Small guys can box out really big guys if they know what they are doing. this is real life hoop. thats how it works. 2k is magnet ball hoop. you pick that arch in hopes the ball will be come to you like your hands are magnets and thats not at all how it works in real life. This reduces the need for high level skill. There's a reason so many GC's have such high win percentages.

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by Foldzy

I find glass cleaners often just take a lot of rebounds that your team would get anyways and as a sharp/athletic I actually prefer to play without one because they tend to clog the lane on offense

yes, they are rebound thieves. lol because they live by the paint an because 2k has made their hands magnets for the ball.

but you really dont prefer to play without one. you only think so because you probably havent played against a decent rated one thats fully badged up. the moment you do, you will realize you have to have one in those situations cause if not, you will lose. because not only will they snag, they will snag and chuck it full court for assist after assist after assist. no matter if you're defending the long bomb or not.

and every time they snag a board if you're a big your grab drops like a rock. which is crazy because why is my grade dropping like crazy because i'm not grabbing boards even though i'm not a GC? but when i snag boards i dont get any extra takeover bar because thats not my arch. so its a setup to fail if you're dealing with a glass and you yourself are a big man. you have to work twice as hard to maintain a decent grade. like i said, the build is way OP for a number of reasons.

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by jyoung

I will gladly give up 3, 4, even 5 rebounds a game to have a center on my team who can contribute something offensively besides screens and dunks. Having better spacing and more scoring options on every possession of your offense >>>>>>>> a few extra rebounds.

you just said a FEW extra rebounds. see again this tells me yall aint playing people that actually know what they're doing.


non Reb center at say 91, vs a pure or mix reb Center at 91. lets say both are 7'2.

the reb center will get you 18 to 30 rebounds in a game. closer to 30 if one of the two teams are bricking a lot more shots.

the other non reb center will get you on average around 13 to 18 per. 18 being the max vs this kind of build that has a clue of what he/she is doing. and understands that the build is op.

again, if it wasnt the op build you wouldt have half the park with these dudes running around and half the JRC with these same builds running around. in no other 2k did you have as many pure GC's running around. there's a reason. they found out early "this is the 2k OP build for this year's game."

I told the story how i played against one of nba 2k league pro players. he had a big and a crazy winning record. I bet my check on the fact he was going to have a pure GC. and i was right. I told him "lol at the pro having the most Cheese/OP build in the game." he just laughed. because he knew it was true. he never denied it. i hung with him, balled out. but he stilled ended up with an insane amt of rebounds off the badges and the build.