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Old 12-11-2020, 01:59 PM   #1
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Young22's Fatigue Off Sliders

Updated Dec 16th, 2020: QBA to 10, PCV to 80 for both sides, RBA to 70 (personal preference)

Updated January 1st, 2021: PCV to 95 for both sides, RBA to 50 for User, 65 for CPU, INT to 10 for User, 15 for CPU

So I realized there's no definitive fatigue off set. Guys have had success playing on default Heisman, which I personally haven't tried, I doubt it would challenge me. JKits has a great fatigue on set, which was the basis of this set, but it doesn't work with fatigue off, which IMO is crucial to the CPU being truly challenging.

WARNING: THESE SLIDERS ARE FOR ADVANCED, SIM-MINDED PLAYERS. IF YOU'RE A NOOB, OR YOU WANT TO THROW 4 VERTS ALL DAY, THESE ARE NOT FOR YOU!!!

Big thanks to JDG42 for helping me test this set, as well as to Von Dozier for toally changing my view on sliders.

Gameplay Options

Heisman difficulty (I also turn it to Heisman for User v User, not sure if that matters)

Injuries on. I edit injury ratings, more detail in my house rules section.

Fatigue Off. The key to get the CPU to be aggressive for 4 quarters, also improves playcall logic for whatever reason. Autosubs never worked right anyway. To get rotation, I use formation subs and package subs to get rotation mainly with my running backs and D-line. I'll do WR rotation a little bit, because IRL teams tend to have 4 or 5 main targets getting 75%+ of the targets and then another 3 or 4 that catch 10-20 passes on the year. For the CPU, I sub in their #2 back in 5-15 sets depending on rating, like if it's a 94 starter vs a 78 backup, maybe 5 sets, I'll put in the #3 a bit if he's good enough, occasionally if they have a guy that could be like a RB/WR, CB/WR, LB/TE I'll do a bit as well. I'll take a look at nickel/dime linebackers too.

8 minute quarters. Depending on offensive tempo, you'll see 120-180 plays a game. I usually average 70 or so with a no-huddle offense, but I'm not sprinting to the line and snapping within 3 seconds. Would be cheesy with fatigue off, I also don't like playing that way. I switched from 9 because the CPU REALLY likes to play quickly in this game. I was starting to have 90 combined points and 1000 combined yards be the norm which is absurd. 9 works, personal preference here.

Normal game speed

32 threshold (credit to JKits for testing this value)

HFA off. HFA is still present without this being on, this actually just serves to keep games close. Through 3 seasons of my latest dynasty, I'm 11-7 (.611) at home, 6-13 (.316) on the road.

Ice Kicker On (more on kicking later)

Penalties


Effects of penalty sliders

Offsides/False Start: 91

Offsides gives the DLine a quicker jump, False start does the same thing for the OLine. Use the fake hike, you'll get calls on both sides.

Holding: 92

Don't think this does a ton.

Facemask: 63

I feel like the hits are a bit bigger, and you get some penalties happening.

OPI: 99

DPI: 98


Aggressiveness when going for the ball. These penalties still don't really exist, you might get one called when there's a collision on a route.

KRI: 60

Just what JKits has it at

Clipping: 54

This one and RTP are weird, 54 they rarely ever get called, 55 it's left and right.

IG: 85

This is the big one that really changes how the game plays. This gets the CPU QB to be aggressive. They don't actually throw it away that much, maybe 2-3 times a game. You will occasionally get them snapping the ball and an instant throwaway, but I only see this with lower AWR QBs, and even then it's rare.

RTP: 54

RTK: 35

Gameplay Sliders

User/CPU

QBA: 10/10

Credit to Von Dozier for getting me to play with this slider. Conventional wisdom on NCAA 14 sliders is to have it on 5. You will see misses, you will have plays where you throw it away because you don't have anywhere to go, and you won't have QBs missing the mark by 5 yards for cheap INTs.

PBK: 35/45

User will have enough time to make reads. You will have to scramble at times, you will have to move in the pocket, and OL ratings matter. PA is viable, but if they don't bite or if they send a free rusher you're screwed. Median sacks per game was 2.2 last season, but yours will likely be higher because CPU QBs will take bad sacks.

WRC: 0/45

At 0 for the USER, you will see drops. User catching is key to make plays on contested balls, especially deep balls. 45 for the CPU will see them drop a few balls, and the CPU seems to trust his guys more, upping the number of deep throws.

RBA: 50/65

At 50, each back plays the way he should. Good backs will be at 5+ a carry, O-line still matters but I felt like 50 gimped backs. I had 2 entire seasons where I didn't break a single 50 yarder with a 93 speed, 99 accel back cause he just couldn't hit the edge.

RBK: 5/35

Nice balance here. Elite O-line can make a decent back look very good.

PCV: 95/95

So unlike what the slider gurus say, and what I thought was true, this slider doesn't appear to be reversed. 95 gets very good coverage. Lots of deflections, good zone awareness, much less of the backers just allowing receivers to cut across their face. QBs miss as well, my guess would be because the windows are now tighter. You'll also get some throwaways.

INT: 10/15

High PCV offsets the deep ball stupidity you'll find with low PCV, low INT values. Credit to Von Dozier for this one as well, fairly realistic amount of picks. Also more CPU wideouts winning 50/50 balls.

RUSHD: 50/50

Very balanced, plays to ratings well I find. Hard to break long runs, but not impossible.

TAK: 40/40

Good amount of broken tackles, and some poor tackles. especially with aggressive Strip Ball on. Once again, ratings really matter.

FGP: 100/50

Ok so I use Tuscaloosa's kicking method. This is the only way I've found to manually kick and have it be a challenge. Go follow that link and you'll see why USER is at 100.

FGA: 30/45

Decent balance of CPU kicking.

PP: 45/60

PA: 40/75


I supersim all user punts, and CPU punts inside the 50. More coffin corners that way.

KOP: 0/45

Broken slider, I supersim all user kickoffs, CPU will occasionally take one back for a score.

House Rules

Injury Edits: -10 QB, -25 HB/FB/WR/TE, -80 OL, -40 DL/LB, -25 DB

Play SIM. Don't abuse money plays. Use the WHOLE playbook. Don't run zone read and 4 wide dives all game. Don't hot route guys to streaks every single time you see press. This is my only "rule" in game, and it's not even a rule, just my play style.

Coordinators' Playbooks: You may only use a book of your choosing (customs are fine, I always use them so I can order my plays by type in the formation screen) on ONE side of the ball. When switching coordinators, you may use the old scheme for an extra year before switching over to the new scheme.

Clear Coaching Trees: Currently trying coaching trees on. I will not use Antifreeze though, I think that skill is ridiculous. Kickers get nervous, coach can't help that.

Kawkeye's Manual Progression System

Start of every season, write down QB's AWR. At the end of the season, remove 50% of in season progression.

Start of every season, edit all players under 85 OVR with AWR >70 down to whatever their overall is, for example, an 80 OVR TE with 95 AWR would then get 80 AWR.

When you get further into Dynasty, do some awareness edits to the CPU stars that have low AWR (usually front 7 defenders, maybe boost DBs that are 90+ OVR). Those stud players should have high AWR, with the way it's scaled on generated players they'll stand out.

Run/Pass slider: Shift the USER (only USER, don't touch CPU) Run/Pass Defense slider one tick to the left, towards run. It makes the CPU pass game better. Logic here is that the AI sees you as unprepared for the pass, so they will pass a bit more, but they still run a good amount, and their pass game is sharper and more aggressive. Surprisingly, the CPU doesn't actually always pass for more yards with this. They will now take more big shots instead of throwing 10 yard outs all game, so you'll see more 18/28, 240 yards instead of 24/28, 240 yards.

Aggressive Strip: Set "Strip Ball" for both you and the CPU to "Aggressive" in order to see some fumbles. Backs with poor carrying ratings will fumble a crap ton, use the cover ball button or even the conservative coaching adjustment.

QB AWR:If a QB has an awareness rating 90: He can send a man in motion, flip a play, call a hot route, call an audible, call slide protections.

Recruiting: Credit to JoshuaHuskers for this set of rules.



Opposition Edits: I highly recommend editing the equipment, appearance, and sometimes names of the opponents before the game. I generally edit anyone who's going to get time, I hate the way the game generates player's equipment (100 pad height, neck pad, standard sleeves combo is awful), and I hate seeing running backs/defensive backs/wide receivers being 50% white and kickers/punters seemingly being 75% black. I also see WAY too many black pocket passers and white uber-athletic scramblers, so some of those will get switched. (Not all, Dwayne Haskins exists, as does Johnny Manziel.)

Rating edits: I'm very liberal with editing ratings. Way too many corners with 90+ speed, but low-mid 80s for AGI/ACC, extremly unrealistic. Too many 6'5, 220 pound wideouts with low SPC/CIT, but great RTE. Too many athletic linebackers with AGI in the 50s and 60s. I edit these for my own team, for elites around the nation, and for my upcoming opponents. I'll also sometimes take a player and just make him a project. 5'10, 220 pound HB with great speed? Time to up that trucking a bit and see if he can blossom into a beast. Tall QB with poor accuracy? Might give him a cannon arm for the hell of it. 6'4, 230 pound athletic QB? Up that trucking and BTK to the 70s, he'll terrorize DBs in the open field. I'll also edit builds to make a guy's build make sense relative to his ratings, a 6'4, 230 pound run stopping DE for instance will go to 260-270.

QB Strength: This is something I'm only just starting to play with, but STR has a major impact on the pass trajectories a QB can throw. Elite QBs should have high 60s-low 70s strength, and elite, strong-arm guys should go up to high 70s, even low 80s. Do it for your QBs, and pregame for each opponent. I haven't fine tuned this yet.

Last edited by young22; 01-02-2021 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:14 PM   #2
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Re: Young22's Fatigue Off Sliders

I've been back and forth on QB Accuracy from 5 to 10 for years now, and personally decided on 10.

Yes, on 5, you do have to get in a rhythm, because when you're not, every ball you throw past 5 yards looks like a child attempting to throw a ball for the first time. And the thing is, once you get yellow, you become that Brady or Rodgers anyway, so all 5 does for the HUM, to me, is make you absolutely awful for the first quarter or so, almost as if scripted and you have no say in the matter. You just have to accept the fact your should-be high powered 90+ rated QB will look like a high school player vs an NFL defense.

The biggest thing is that QBA at 5 for CPU doesn't JUST bring down accuracy, but it also makes the CPU QB simply stupid. If you observe the same QB on 5 vs 10, it's night and day in their decision making. On 5, they seem to have no confidence to throw unless their first read is open by about 10 yards. This usually ends up in a bunch of coverage sacks throughout the game. You can see this on replay after replay. Whereas on 10, they become basically normal, will go through a read or two, and don't mind taking a risk here and there.

TLDR, I've always seen QBA as less of an accuracy slider and more of an AI slider. 5 to 10 does totally different things for HUM and CPU.

I only make this particular argument because everything else looks real solid, and a lot of it mirrors my own, including little things like injury edits and QB strength.

Last edited by Von Dozier; 12-12-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 12-12-2020, 06:01 PM   #3
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Re: Young22's Fatigue Off Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Dozier
I've been back and forth on QB Accuracy from 5 to 10 for years now, and personally decided on 10.

Yes, on 5, you do have to get in a rhythm, because when you're not, every ball you throw past 5 yards looks like a child attempting to throw a ball for the first time. And the thing is, once you get yellow, you become that Brady or Rodgers anyway, so all 5 does for the HUM, to me, is make you absolutely awful for the first quarter or so, almost as if scripted and you have no say in the matter. You just have to accept the fact your should-be high powered 90+ rated QB will look like a high school player vs an NFL defense.

The biggest thing is that QBA at 5 for CPU doesn't JUST bring down accuracy, but it also makes the CPU QB simply stupid. If you observe the same QB on 5 vs 10, it's night and day in their decision making. On 5, they seem to have no confidence to throw unless their first read is open by about 10 yards. This usually ends up in a bunch of coverage sacks throughout the game. You can see this on replay after replay. Whereas on 10, they become basically normal, will go through a read or two, and don't mind taking a risk here and there.

TLDR, I've always seen QBA as less of an accuracy slider and more of an AI slider. 5 to 10 does totally different things for HUM and CPU.

I only make this particular argument because everything else looks real solid, and a lot of it mirrors my own, including little things like injury edits and QB strength.
I'm gonna test this. Currently 3-5 with WVU, about to face #5 Miami. After that, it's 0-8 MTSU, 1-8 Pitt, and 3-5 NC State to close the season. Outside shot at a bowl. I'm not gonna lie, I've been VERY tempted to up it to 10 all year. My starter is sitting at 2086 yards on 54%, 10 scores, 14 picks so far, and there have been some puzzlingly bad throws. I've never played football, I'm a soccer guy, so I'm not amazing at reading the D, but there have been some throws where he misses by 5-10 yards from a clean pocket and it gets picked. He's got 88 THP, 90 THA, but only 77 AWR, so he comes out ice cold, I'm probably completing under 40% in the first quarter on the year. I'm hesitant to do this with the CPU, just cause I've already been torn up for 300 yards with 75%+ completion % a couple times. Haven't really had an issue with excessive coverage sacks.

Now's the time for me to test though, because I plan on playing out this dynasty to the 60 year mark. Simmed to 2020 just to see which P5 was a good project and to get all the real players out of the game. I'll give it a go for the next 4 games, see if it results in OP QBs, if not I'll extend the sample size to a season.

I do think it's a losing battle on 5 though, you saying it makes me realize how insane it is that a guy with the ratings my starter has is putting up these awful numbers.

Curious, do you use coaching trees? I was thinking about using the Game Management tree, because I can upgrade all 3 slots of HFA with no real effect due to me having HFA off. This would allow me to get to the second tier with passing/running matchups and setup plays. It would also slow my recruiting improvement down. Looking at the OC/DC trees, I don't actually think it'd be cheesy to use those trees (aside from the physical and AWR boosts). CPU uses them and often blatantly shows that it knows exactly what I'm calling.
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Old 12-13-2020, 10:31 PM   #4
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Re: Young22's Fatigue Off Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by young22
Curious, do you use coaching trees? I was thinking about using the Game Management tree, because I can upgrade all 3 slots of HFA with no real effect due to me having HFA off. This would allow me to get to the second tier with passing/running matchups and setup plays. It would also slow my recruiting improvement down. Looking at the OC/DC trees, I don't actually think it'd be cheesy to use those trees (aside from the physical and AWR boosts). CPU uses them and often blatantly shows that it knows exactly what I'm calling.
I do, as I allow myself to use the same systems the CPU does, although I usually keep the path to a single tree that fits my exact scheme (ie if I run mainly zone, I'll put my points there, and none into man), instead of going crazy and trying to unlock everything, which means being fine with leaving a bunch of accumulating points unused. And I avoid the obvious ones that seem a little cheesy for the coach tree, and also things like less injuries for the coordinators (because you want injuries to matter). I also like to feel the impact of a good built OC or DC leaving.

I put none into recruiting, because I don't like to know my recruits real ratings. I add recruits to my board just based on their initial ratings and projections, as I prefer a surprise and a penalty if I recruit poorly that year.

Re: Injuries, how are those working for you on offense? -25 for the HBs and WRs seem wild to me, as I've personally been using -15 for the RBs and -10 for the WRs for a long time now, and see a lot of injuries even on those.

Here's what I've been using for a few years now with injury edits

Quarterbacks (-10)
HBs : (-15)
WRs: (-10)
TE/FB: (-20)
Defense: (-40)
(optional) OL: (-70) (around 15-20. 80=25, 70=15)

The OL is optional (personally I don't even edit them anymore) because there are no off the ball injuries anyway, and the only way they'd ever have a chance of being injured is if they recovered a fumble and got smacked hard, and even then I doubt you'd ever see it. I do like the change to only -25 for the DBs though, as they seem to get hurt just as much as my RBs/WRs do if they're at -40 with the rest of the D.
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Old 12-15-2020, 01:33 PM   #5
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Re: Young22's Fatigue Off Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Dozier
I do, as I allow myself to use the same systems the CPU does, although I usually keep the path to a single tree that fits my exact scheme (ie if I run mainly zone, I'll put my points there, and none into man), instead of going crazy and trying to unlock everything, which means being fine with leaving a bunch of accumulating points unused. And I avoid the obvious ones that seem a little cheesy for the coach tree, and also things like less injuries for the coordinators (because you want injuries to matter). I also like to feel the impact of a good built OC or DC leaving.

I put none into recruiting, because I don't like to know my recruits real ratings. I add recruits to my board just based on their initial ratings and projections, as I prefer a surprise and a penalty if I recruit poorly that year.

Re: Injuries, how are those working for you on offense? -25 for the HBs and WRs seem wild to me, as I've personally been using -15 for the RBs and -10 for the WRs for a long time now, and see a lot of injuries even on those.

Here's what I've been using for a few years now with injury edits

Quarterbacks (-10)
HBs : (-15)
WRs: (-10)
TE/FB: (-20)
Defense: (-40)
(optional) OL: (-70) (around 15-20. 80=25, 70=15)

The OL is optional (personally I don't even edit them anymore) because there are no off the ball injuries anyway, and the only way they'd ever have a chance of being injured is if they recovered a fumble and got smacked hard, and even then I doubt you'd ever see it. I do like the change to only -25 for the DBs though, as they seem to get hurt just as much as my RBs/WRs do if they're at -40 with the rest of the D.
I've had a solid number of injuries. Lost my #1 corner for 2 weeks, #2 back for 4, have 3-4 temporary injuries every game, and I've actually lost two linemen to injuries, 2 weeks and 7 weeks. 4 games to go.

I tried QBA at 10 as per your suggestion, it's been borderline unplayable for me. Yes, lower rated CPU QBs are more decisive, but not so much more than on 5 in my experience. For the user, it's totally ridiculous - you're dialed in and do not miss, period. That combined with the way coverage plays makes for an environment where I could see myself completing 80% of my passes, with half those incompletions being INTs. What do you use as a slider set, and how are the completion percentages for you? Have one of two more things I can try to make QBA work at 10, but man you NEVER miss, nor does the CPU.
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Old 12-15-2020, 02:14 PM   #6
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Re: Young22's Fatigue Off Sliders

I suppose it all depends on playstyle. If all you call are easy 5 yard shots and checkdowns, slants and curls, then yes you'll rarely miss, the same way a real life QB would rarely miss those. Personally, my playstyle is about spreading the field and taking a ton of deepshots and 50/50 balls. I'm run heavy, and when I pass, it's rarely for less than 15 yards and on a well covered WR. It keeps me honest, and I rarely finish a game above 65%. In contrast to this, I have INTs set way down so there's more "bats" and incompletions instead of straight INTs, since INTs are rarely thrown in college anyway, usually only 1 every other game. I suppose this could be up to the player, whether you want more batted passes for realism, or more INTs simply to be challenged into more safe throws for completions.

Depending on the way you utilize a playbook, I suppose the 5 or 10 is up to the player as well, and not a hard set rule, (the same way slider sets from one year to the next get outdated until year 4 onwards in dynasty, because of the new recruits coming in and changing gameplay in contrast to the roster defaults.) 10 works perfectly for the way I pass, whereas 5 makes me feel like my playbook is heavily restricted to just a few types of passes if you want any sort of success.

You said yourself, your highly rated QB puts up ugly numbers on 5. So which is more realistic? Doing well with a high rated QB playing to its rating, or playing poorly with a high rated QB because the game locks you into a terrible accuracy threshold until you turn yellow?

It's been a minute since I've played as these are from September, but this was the latest set I was still tweaking here and there, so it's not fully finished, but close.

9-29-20
heisman
fatigue off
thresh 25
9 minutes
HFA off

offsides 99
false start 80
holding 80
facemask 55
OPI 99
DPI 50
KPI 1
clipping 50
intentional grounding 99
roughing the Passer 1
roughing the Kicker 1

HUM/CPU (same value for both if no /)
QBA: 10
Pass Block: 40
WR Catch: 40/45
RB Ability: 40
Run Block: 5/35
Pass Cov: 35
INTs: 10/15
Rush D: 10/25
Tackling: 20
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Old 12-15-2020, 05:38 PM   #7
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Re: Young22's Fatigue Off Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Dozier
I suppose it all depends on playstyle. If all you call are easy 5 yard shots and checkdowns, slants and curls, then yes you'll rarely miss, the same way a real life QB would rarely miss those. Personally, my playstyle is about spreading the field and taking a ton of deepshots and 50/50 balls. I'm run heavy, and when I pass, it's rarely for less than 15 yards and on a well covered WR. It keeps me honest, and I rarely finish a game above 65%. In contrast to this, I have INTs set way down so there's more "bats" and incompletions instead of straight INTs, since INTs are rarely thrown in college anyway, usually only 1 every other game. I suppose this could be up to the player, whether you want more batted passes for realism, or more INTs simply to be challenged into more safe throws for completions.

Depending on the way you utilize a playbook, I suppose the 5 or 10 is up to the player as well, and not a hard set rule, (the same way slider sets from one year to the next get outdated until year 4 onwards in dynasty, because of the new recruits coming in and changing gameplay in contrast to the roster defaults.) 10 works perfectly for the way I pass, whereas 5 makes me feel like my playbook is heavily restricted to just a few types of passes if you want any sort of success.

You said yourself, your highly rated QB puts up ugly numbers on 5. So which is more realistic? Doing well with a high rated QB playing to its rating, or playing poorly with a high rated QB because the game locks you into a terrible accuracy threshold until you turn yellow?

It's been a minute since I've played as these are from September, but this was the latest set I was still tweaking here and there, so it's not fully finished, but close.

9-29-20
heisman
fatigue off
thresh 25
9 minutes
HFA off

offsides 99
false start 80
holding 80
facemask 55
OPI 99
DPI 50
KPI 1
clipping 50
intentional grounding 99
roughing the Passer 1
roughing the Kicker 1

HUM/CPU (same value for both if no /)
QBA: 10
Pass Block: 40
WR Catch: 40/45
RB Ability: 40
Run Block: 5/35
Pass Cov: 35
INTs: 10/15
Rush D: 10/25
Tackling: 20
INTs are LOW, wow. I used to have them on 30, jacked it up because I found that on anything lower than 50, the game was terrible at playing the deep ball, resulting in that crap where the DB overruns the deep ball by 15 yards and it's a cheap 40 yards instead of a 50/50 fight. That's what's stopping me from turning down INTs, that the slider seems to be tied to general DB awareness and not just catching picks.

I'm also not as run heavy. I've thrown 39 times a game this year, currently 196/351 (56%), 2405 yards, 12 TD, 16 INT through 9 games. 12.2 YPC. That is a lot, I normally would throw 25-30 times a game but I've been wanting to test the passing game out, because I've nailed down what I want from the run game. Terrible numbers (although if his INTs were at 6-8 I wouldn't be too unhappy), but I've played better with worse QBs. I've had a guy with mid 80s for THP/THA complete 65% over his final 2 seasons (ton of picks though), had a QB complete a solid 59% with 82 THA (again, 18 picks that year in 13 games). I kind of like the storyline that this guy is just terrible, and I did land a 3 star home state gem coming in at a 77 OVR as of right now.

I take shots downfield, it's not that I don't, but I've always favored mostly fast receivers who run good routes with a big possession guy or two, so I like to throw a lot of slants, drags, digs. Another issue is that recievers simply don't drop the ball enough. Guys get absolutely hammered right as they're catching it and hang on far too often.

I'll try your set. Quit out of a game at 0-9 MTSU (I played #5 Miami about 6 times, probably gonna play this one quite a few times as well) at the half earlier because I was 10/12, with 1 of the incompletions being a pick, and their 78 rated QB was something like 13/17. Last thing with 5 - it's possible for your QB to be snapped out of his hot streak, I've thrown bad balls even with a red circle.

I really want to nail this issue down haha, couldn't give up NCAA. Worst case, I'll go back to the set listed in the OP and keep working on going through my progressions.
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Old 12-16-2020, 05:51 PM   #8
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Re: Young22's Fatigue Off Sliders

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