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Message to all negative Critics(2k and EA)

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Old 08-01-2007, 07:34 PM   #1
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Message to all negative Critics(2k and EA)

To say a yearly iteration of a game looks pretty much like its predecessor is completely idiotic. I am a video gamer who doesn't really like to come to these boards because of the aformentioned ignorance that comes from you posters. I play games in real life which means I play them, size them up, and then just play. I don't look to critique a game too much. If it's a bad game then I leave it at that, return it and move on with life. I am a realist and I must have an understanding that most of you do not. Let me break it down.

A) Yearly iteration games only showcase maximum amount of progress allowed within the given time frame. To seriously expect a game to have a complete 360 degree turn every year is pathetic. I have not had the pleasure of seeing this happen yet in its most literal term. Since sports games have existed, minimal but effective changes have been the standard. It's like when you are drafting a rookie. You can't change his physical but you can upgrade on his mental and help improve his skills. View this player as the game engine and his improvements as his "features". Games work just the same way.

B) Try to understand what goes on behind the scenes before you judge. Ask any engineer that deals with computers. Replicating real human actions in a virtual world can be a tough task. It requires time, money, and a lot of factors that a lot of us don't know about. There can be licensing issues(NFL, Euphoria engine, etc.) or processing power issues(360, PS3). There are good football engines out there but they are probably hard to attain. This forces game producers to work with the same engine for what seems like decades. Having the same engine means having a similar playing game. For as far as I know, Madden and 2k have retained the same game engines for years and have just improved on them. You guys complain but act ignorant to the fact that they are somewhat forced to use the same game engine year after year.

C) Do me a favor. If you have NFL 2k2-2k5, go back through each of the games and notice the subtle changes made each year. Feels like the same game but with new animations and features right? Same with Madden. Same with NBA 2k2-2k7. They use the same engine and it plays pretty much the same as previous years. What made 2k7 the best basketball game was not it's totally revamped gameplay. It is pretty much the same as 2k6. 2k added authenticity to the game. That's what makes it great. There are no real differences between how these two games played. Same with NFL 2k4 and 2k5. If you think that they totally revamped the gamplay within this year then you are mistaken. What made that game good is that they added nice touches that added to the realism of the game. Like I said "Same engine, new features".

D) Last but not least, understand that EA and 2k both do the same thing. Last gen, when 2k and EA struck gold and found out what their fans liked, they rode it till the wheels fell off. People complain about EA not really changing how their game played last gen but it is no different than what 2k would've done if they still had the NFL. If there was NFL 2k6 it would've come equipped with gang tackling, qb evade, SC, and such with maybe a little something new and 2k fans would've called it the "Best football game ever" even with it's minimal upgrades. They wouldn't have changed the gameplay, more less just add NFL authenticity. NBA 2k7 did it and 2k8 looks as if it plays the same way as 2k7 with added features. There is no excuse for Madden to cut features but as far as gameplay the must have this saying stuck in their head, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". They make subtle changes like give the player more control and gang tackling. It's not groundbreaking but THEIR fans seem to like it. It's 2k fans who bitch and moan but guess what, they are not going to change their ways to make their Madden game play like 2k just for the sake of 2k fans not calling it a "roster update". Move on and have fun with life.
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:44 PM   #2
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Re: Message to all negative Critics(2k and EA)

Excellent way of explaining it.
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:47 PM   #3
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Re: Message to all negative Critics(2k and EA)

actually i think one of the main gripes with ea is the fact that they did change a solid engine once they got to next gen. this was an engine that needed to be tweaked to be perfected. the new engine on the 360 and ps3 is down right horrid. noone should ever say for gameplay reasons i want to play the last generation game. people should not be furious that the last generation madden game is not backwards compatible to the 360 because it simply plays better. So i actually disagree with you in the sense that if ea actually did tweak its already existing engine therewould be a lot less complainers about EA.
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:54 PM   #4
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Re: Message to all negative Critics(2k and EA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyBlueFresh
Feels like the same game but with new animations and features right? Same with NBA 2k2-2k7.
i dont agree w/ this at all. i can't comment on the engine since i don't know enough but IMO:

NBA2K/2K1/2K2 = same game with significant improvements/changes each iteration (depending on your POV)

NBA2K3/2K4/2K5= dramatic changes from previous 3, but similar to one another

NBA2K6/2K7= new again
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:54 PM   #5
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Re: Message to all negative Critics(2k and EA)

well the things I've complained about in regards to each game are things I've complained about since 2001. Block suction, DBs with a sixth sense, poor tackling and collision detection, AI playcalling, etc. In the beginning, I gave the developers the benefit of doubt that they didn't have enough resources (time, staff, money, system constraints) to fix all these things within a year time frame. But now, with the high powered systems out, I simply thought we would be past most of these things and we aren't. And it doesn't if you're a 2k fan or an EA fan, the same problems have plagued these games for years and it's starting to upset me.

I realize that the developers are very hamstrung and have to make the most out of a game with not enough resources. Overall, football gaming to me has been the slowest to progress and I just don't understand why. I see massive improvements in other sports games, why is football so different?

edit: I guess, I'll put it like this. I see games like MLB 06 The Show, NBA 2k7, Winning Eleven 9 and those games are so much better than they had been in previous years. I see Madden, NCAA and now APF and it feels like more of the same.
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:55 PM   #6
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Re: Message to all negative Critics(2k and EA)

the problem is, if EA had their game so tweaked towards their fans, then why make a new engine, that has sucked for two straight years? By your "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" logic, they would have just ported the ps2 engine over for the next gen consoles. It's blatantly obvious they didn't, even if you don't listen to what they've even said on that.

Secondly, people expect more from EA efforts. That's a result of them being the king of the industry. EA has done great making Madden and NCAA games as successful as they have been, but they also got lazy because of it. Bottom line is, EA has more money and resources than anyone in the industry to make their games better every year. Adding features and animatioes does not take as much dev time as it takes to build a new engine. Is it really wrong to look to EA, the huge industry giant, for more than what they give year in and year out?

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Old 08-01-2007, 08:01 PM   #7
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Re: Message to all negative Critics(2k and EA)

hmmm...a complainer about the complainers. I understand that much wise one. At least you took a new approach to it.

My problem is taking out features that have always been there and then "reintroducing" them several games later as "new" and "innovative". Why should we have to wait 3 or 4 game releases each cycle of new generation hardware to get the same (complete) quality of games from the previous cycle?

By the time you get that "complete game" (I'm not talking minor bugs - every game has small bugs) on the current generation of hardware the series is abandoned on that console for the new generation hardware - where it starts all over again with stripped features and gameplay.
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:14 PM   #8
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Re: Message to all negative Critics(2k and EA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkfount
the problem is, if EA had their game so tweaked towards their fans, then why make a new engine, that has sucked for two straight years? By your "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" logic, they would have just ported the ps2 engine over for the next gen consoles. It's blatantly obvious they didn't, even if you don't listen to what they've even said on that.

Secondly, people expect more from EA efforts. That's a result of them being the king of the industry. EA has done great making Madden and NCAA games as successful as they have been, but they also got lazy because of it. Bottom line is, EA has more money and resources than anyone in the industry to make their games better every year. Is it really wrong to look to EA, the huge industry giant, for more than what they give year in and year out?
EA must've been trying to do something different. Think about it. If they would've ported the last gen engine to next gen, they've been accused of selling a "port" with better graphics. 2k8 is going through the EXACT same thing as we speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by umd
hmmm...a complainer about the complainers. I understand that much wise one. At least you took a new approach to it.

My problem is taking out features that have always been there and then "reintroducing" them several games later as "new" and "innovative". Why should we have to wait 3 or 4 game releases each cycle of new generation hardware to get the same (complete) quality of games from the previous cycle?

By the time you get that "complete game" (I'm not talking minor bugs - every game has small bugs) on the current generation of hardware the series is abandoned on that console for the new generation hardware - where it starts all over again with stripped features and gameplay.
How am I complaining? I am making a statement. Read the dictionary. Statement and complain are two different words. Again, I am not talking about features, I am strictly addressing the complaints about sports games, Madden in this case, looking similar to their predecessors. There is a reason why the look the same.
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