Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

**TNT713** · 03-24-2011, 06:07 PM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

With regards to #1: "Route Based Passing" in Madden

For years Madden has had a dynamic for throwing passes before a receiver cut to the spot he's supposed to cut to.

Having never thrown a pass on the NFL2K series, I cannot attest to how they feel as compared to Madden. I can only attest to the presence of dynamic that allows passes to be thrown to areas OTHER than the area straight ahead of the direction the receiver runs...

The dynamic requires activation of ONE BUTTON after the snap and is most readily witnessed when the ball is thrown on the 3rd, 5th, or 7th drop when throwing to routes breaking at the respective points in the QB's drop. No stick action whatsoever is required at the time of the throw.

I used 5-step routes for a video and found tremendous success throwing Post, Corner, In, Out, and Hook routes before the receiver cut to the EXACT location the ball should have been thrown if the pass was thrown based on the route he was running instead of the direction he was facing...

I did a duplicate of the routes in the video you posted... It used Madden 10. But I can remember the dynamic for YEARS before that.

The videos (3 Parts) are in my arena is you want to check them out...

I have no comments on 2, 3, or 4.

Later

**RazzBerry80** · 03-24-2011, 06:36 PM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

TNT, your videos did not play. I think EA still has alot of work to do to get real route based passing in their game. I would be very happy if it equaled APF2k8. Having played both games the passing system in madden is not close enough to say that route based passing is in Madden. I have had moments of route based passing in Madden, but you really need to play 2k8 to compare to what we would like added to Madden.

I hope all of the things the OP listed will soon find their way into madden. I would expand wr/db interaction to include all player interactions, and maybe all animations, perhaps that includes doubple hit tackes aswell? Animations over all throught the game could use improvment. The devs have admited as much so we will see how much they worked on it.

**MJenness** · 03-24-2011, 11:44 PM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

I want to se working penalties!! ALL of them. And a working and realistic challenge system....been waiting for YEARS for those to be addressed.

**roadman** · 03-25-2011, 09:25 AM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

Originally posted by MJenness

I want to se working penalties!! ALL of them. And a working and realistic challenge system....been waiting for YEARS for those to be addressed.

You are preaching to the choir on this note.

Please make penalties work.

**carnalnirvana** · 03-25-2011, 09:31 AM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

i think madden is caught between two worlds,

in my edits i have madden playing great, blocking, OL/DL etc, it still lacks animations but atleast its trying to play football....

however if madden was programmed like my edits the online gameplay would be lost

1. if everyone blocked online i would avg 200yds on the ground(and i am trash online)

remember when blocking worked and we used to put a OL at TE oh man we ran all day

2. if you dropped the safeties to combat the running game and DB's trailed its the deep ball all day like we used to in madden 04-06
...rocket catch....

if ST blocked like they did in 09, we would average 2 KR/PR per game

in APF/2k back in the day games were always 60-70 online because when foorball is respected and you have the GODS EYE VIEW it becomes wayyyyyy too easy.

can you imagine if manning/brees had the ability to see every WR at the same time and knew when they would break their routes or that the CB was trailing it would be a shootout.........

i am not defending EA or the devs by any means, i wish they would make a sim game and forget about online, however thats not going to happen.

look at nba 2k11, they put in momentum which everyone loves, but you can abuse it all game crossing anyone with D rose to where they are falling out of the way.......leading to garbage online play unless you get another simhead

now i understand there will be abusers in every game but IMO this is why EA leaves the cheap tricks in the game and has not attempted to completely smooth it out, LAME !!!! yes definately but online has grown so much since ps2 glory days you have to capatalize on that market and strict sim will create more problems that it will solve........

**TNT713** · 03-25-2011, 01:05 PM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

Originally posted by RazzBerry80

TNT, your videos did not play. I think EA still has alot of work to do to get real route based passing in their game. I would be very happy if it equaled APF2k8. Having played both games the passing system in madden is not close enough to say that route based passing is in Madden. I have had moments of route based passing in Madden, but you really need to play 2k8 to compare to what we would like added to Madden.

They played for me... Try this link: Madden - Route Based Passing Videos

If they don't play, I changed the YouTube options to Unlisted. Try these:

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgTroLGdvtU
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLzWnjynOuU
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spWTN4jXJeo

As far as comparing the two - NO INTEREST. So while APF may be great, and I sincerely have nothing against it other than IT'S NOT MADDEN. Once upon a time I played every NFL game on the market for PC and consoles (1995-1999) and always came back to Madden. Now Madden is the only football game I'll PLAY - although I'll watch any of the others.

That said, I'm INTIMATELY familiar with several of the passing mechanics on Madden and utilize them all where appropriate (hypothetically at least).

Later

**RazzBerry80** · 03-25-2011, 06:27 PM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

Thank you for the links to your videos. I have to say that they have a couple of flaws. You should show the play art of so the viewer can see the actual route the reciever runs. Also I would like to see what happens when you release the pass a full secound or two BEFORE the WR starts his break animiation.

Lets say your WR was running a post. Your QB lets the ball go a full second or 2 before the WR starts his break. Without leading the pass will the ball go to where the route should be run? or will the pass be thrown like a GO route. In AP2k8 it will still be thrown along the post route. In madden it will be some kind of go route.

It seems that if you time the throw with the break it will be a route based pass. But it still falls short of how well route based passing was done in 2k8. And that is what myself, and many others would like to see put into Madden to make it a stronger game, in my opinion.

Not trying to make you not like Madden, TNT. And I am not going to try to force you to play APF2k8, even though that would help more than my words can, to show you what I am trying to discribe.

Just trying to clarify what myself and others are talking about when we say we want route based passing in madden.

**RazzBerry80** · 03-25-2011, 06:52 PM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

I spoke too soon to a couple of points on TNT's videos. One. I said he needed to show the play art. In later videos he does. I said the ball needs to be released before the route. He showed some examples of just that.

I think my problem with route based passing as it is in Madden is that the window is too small. I think my point about throwing a post route or some kind of deep slant still stands though. If you are hurried or for whatever reason throw the ball too early it no longer will be a post. But turn into a Go route.

But I had to post again because I was in error in my first post in regards to TNT's videos.

My first thought is that being route based passing in some limited form is in madden, what year did it first appear? Was this new to Madden10? And if that is so, are the current developers more inclined to flesh it out further ala APF 2k8? I still think Madden needs improvment in the area of route based passing, I just hope the devs are open to opening it up so to speak.

**Lexicon** · 03-25-2011, 07:21 PM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

cgalligan, you're absolutely right. I put in APF2k8 the other night (I don't play it too often because I don't like that they focused on legends and didn't include franchise mode) and I paused it after every play and analyzed what was going on.

You pretty much said everything about the WR/QB things that Madden should look into adopting. I do want to add that it feels like there's more depth to passing than Madden. For example, I rolled out to the right and had a WR about 20 yards away wide open with only one CB in that area playing zone coverage. I threw, on the run, and it sailed right over a leaping CB and fell perfectly over the shoulder of the WR. In Madden, the CB would have made a super human leap and picked it off. It's like the ball can't go above a certain height sometimes in Madden.

Also, something you didn't mention was DL/OL interaction. On one play, the DE had a step on the OT. When the OT put a hand in the DE's chest, the DE undercut the OT's arm and got around him. It sounds like a normal move when I type it out, but to see it play out with no clipping was a thing of beauty.

The fundamentals of 2K's football games are unparalleled, but Tiburon would never admit that their system is broken. I could go on and on about 2K's gameplay, but it wouldn't do any good because 2K will never make another football game and Tiburon would never adopt 2K's system.

**TNT713** · 03-25-2011, 11:54 PM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

Originally posted by RazzBerry80

Thank you for the links to your videos. I have to say that they have a couple of flaws. You should show the play art of so the viewer can see the actual route the reciever runs. Also I would like to see what happens when you release the pass a full secound or two BEFORE the WR starts his break animiation.

Lets say your WR was running a post. Your QB lets the ball go a full second or 2 before the WR starts his break. Without leading the pass will the ball go to where the route should be run? or will the pass be thrown like a GO route. In AP2k8 it will still be thrown along the post route. In madden it will be some kind of go route.

It seems that if you time the throw with the break it will be a route based pass. But it still falls short of how well route based passing was done in 2k8. And that is what myself, and many others would like to see put into Madden to make it a stronger game, in my opinion.

Not trying to make you not like Madden, TNT. And I am not going to try to force you to play APF2k8, even though that would help more than my words can, to show you what I am trying to discribe.

Just trying to clarify what myself and others are talking about when we say we want route based passing in madden.

First, to address where the ball will go when the ball is thrown early. We must change the way we measure. Time in football is measured in steps - not seconds. If you release any pass 1 second early or late, it's highly unlikely it's going to go where you think... But two steps early is a better indicator.

It depends on the route, when the pass is thrown, how the pass is thrown. Suppose the WR is running a 5-step route (out), but the defense blitzes and I have to deliver the ball on my 3rd step (2-steps early).

If I throw the ball hard with low trajectory there's a high probability that the ball will arrive before the receiver makes his break. In this case the ball will be thrown in the direction the receiver is running.

If I throw the ball with medium velocity with medium trajectory, the ball may travel to a point farther ahead of the receiver's stem or to the point on the route the ball should be delivered. In this situation it's likely that the ball will go one place, but the receiver runs to another...

If I throw the ball with low velocity and high trajectory, it's highly likely that the ball will be delivered to the proper spot on the receiver's route and the receiver will run his route as it's drawn up.

Contrary to popular belief, passing in Madden isn't just pressing buttons. It's all about HOW and WHEN those buttons are pressed. Players control trajectory and velocity with the same button action. On PS3 (pressure sensitive buttons) it's much easier to demonstrate:

To throw REAL HARD with little arc - Press the button hard and hold it.
To throw REAL HARD with a lot of arc - Press the Button hard and let it go immediately.

To throw REAL SOFT with little arc - Press the Button Lightly and hold it.
To throw REAL SOFT with a lot of arc - Press the Button lightly and let it go.

There is a RANGE within each type of throw that will allow you to control not only where you passes go, but also how fast they get there, how much air is underneath them...

Whenever I hear people say the LB or DB has superman leaps - it's ALWAYS because they didn't throw properly. Defenders in Madden don't really jump that high. But tons of Madden players throw too low by pressing the button too hard in panic situations - especially when flushed out of the pocket.

In real football players that can't make those plays are said to lack poise. In Madden it's called an AI defect. SMH.

Later

**Lexicon** · 03-26-2011, 01:24 AM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

It's not just the arc of the ball though, it's also that Madden defenders often times transport into position, then make the miraculous jump.

**peter77733** · 03-26-2011, 01:46 AM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

Here's what I would like to see -

EA purchase Take Two Interactive and let Visual Concepts develop an NFL 2K game to go head to head with Madden. Basically, an in-house competition which would be a win win for EA because they would have their own fan base while getting 2K's fan base as well plus for those who love MVP, that would be coming back too since purchasing TTI would obviously include the exclusive third party license for MLB.

Only thing is that the "suits" would have to give both Tirubon and VC the same budget, schedule, time period, etc. and then, just stay the hell out of their way.

If that was to actually happen, I think every Madden and 2K fan would win and EA would make even more money than they already do.

**roadman** · 03-26-2011, 09:12 AM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

Originally posted by peter77733

Here's what I would like to see -

EA purchase Take Two Interactive and let Visual Concepts develop an NFL 2K game to go head to head with Madden. Basically, an in-house competition which would be a win win for EA because they would have their own fan base while getting 2K's fan base as well plus for those who love MVP, that would be coming back too since purchasing TTI would obviously include the exclusive third party license for MLB.

Only thing is that the "suits" would have to give both Tirubon and VC the same budget, schedule, time period, etc. and then, just stay the hell out of their way.

If that was to actually happen, I think every Madden and 2K fan would win and EA would make even more money than they already do.

The theory looks good on paper and has been brought up several times, but it would take more capital to purchase 2k and then it would take double the start up cost to develop another game. After the purchase of 2k, their capital resources might be tapped out.

**TNT713** · 03-26-2011, 10:34 AM

Re: Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

Originally posted by peter77733

Here's what I would like to see -

EA purchase Take Two Interactive and let Visual Concepts develop an NFL 2K game to go head to head with Madden. Basically, an in-house competition which would be a win win for EA because they would have their own fan base while getting 2K's fan base as well plus for those who love MVP, that would be coming back too since purchasing TTI would obviously include the exclusive third party license for MLB.

Only thing is that the "suits" would have to give both Tirubon and VC the same budget, schedule, time period, etc. and then, just stay the hell out of their way.

If that was to actually happen, I think every Madden and 2K fan would win and EA would make even more money than they already do.

Sad to see this... It reminds me of when I still lived in NC and saw people flying the flag of the confederate states ,that only lasted 4 years, 150 years after they lost the Civil War. SMH...

2K lost the war. Why are we still flying the flag?

Later

Something that I really want to see in Madden 12.

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