Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

[shadox]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

And here we go...with a very suprising result...

I played quite normal but a bit more conservative then I usually do.

Roster from 19/08/09 without any modifications.

12 Mins/25 sec. run-pff
Very Slow
65 Threshold
60 Fatigue/60 Injury

bills sliders (for CPU and HUMAN):
QB acc: 12
Pass Blk: 5
WR Catch: 80

Brk Takl:50
Run Blk: 20
Fum: 45

Reaction Time: 15
INT: 5
Pass Rush: 85

Reaction Time: 10
Block shd: 75
Tackling: 0

Auto-Subs:
QB 55/80
RB 83/84
WR 82/83
FB/TE 75/80
OL 60/80
DT 84/85
DE 83/84
LB 65/80
CB 60/80
S 60/80

Special Teams:
FG Power: 55
FG Acc: 47
Punt Power: 55
Punt Acc: 47
Kick Power: 50

Penalties:
Holding 49
Facemask 60
Clipping 65
Rest 100

Steelers vs. Steelers, normal weather
Score: 17 - 13
Total Ofense: 283 - 263 (!!!)
Passing Yrd: 170 - 223
Rushing Yrd: 113 - 40
First Downs: 12 - 13 (!)
PR Yrd: 11 - 2
KR Yrd: 93 - 103
Turnovers: 1 - 1 (!)
T.O.P.: 22:26 - 25:34
Plays: 42 - 50 = Total 92

Scoring at end of:
1.Qtr:3-3
2.Qtr:10 - 3
3.Qtr: 17 - 10
4.Qtr: 17- 13

MVP: Parker

QB: (Away first)
Big Ben 15/29; 51%; 170 Yds; 1 TD, 1 INT, rating: 66,7; Long: 28
Big Ben 23/37; 62%; 227 Yds; 1 TD, 0 INT, rating: 88,4; Long: 22

WR: (Away first)
Ward 7 / 104 ; Avg: 14,8, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 24 Sweed 3 / 19 ; Avg: 6,3, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 12
Miller 2 / 10 ; Avg: 5,0, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 2
Spaeth 2 / 21 ; Avg: 10,5, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 4
McDonald 1 / 18 ; Avg: 18,0, 1 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 18

Ward 7 / 101 ; Avg: 14,4, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 28
Miller 5 / 18 ; Avg: 3,6, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 7
Holmes 5 / 63 ; Avg: 12,6, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 11
Davis 3 / 29 ; Avg: 9,6, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 24
Summers 1 / 3 ; Avg: 3,0, 1 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 0
Spaeth 1 / 6 ; Avg: 6,0, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 6
Moore 1 / 7 ; Avg: 7,0, 0 TD; 0 Drop; Yrd after catch: 12

RB: (away first)
Parker 19 / 112; Avg 5,8; 1 TD; long after hit: 58; Br. tackl.:4
Davis 1 / 2; Avg 2,0; 0 TD; long after hit: 1; Br. tackl.:0
Mendenhall 1 / -1; Avg -1,0; 0 TD; long after hit: 0; Br. tackl.:0

Parker 11 / 23; Avg 2,0; 0 TD; long after hit: 10; Br. tackl.:2
Davis 1 / 10; Avg 10,0; 0 TD; long after hit: 3; Br. tackl.:1
Mendenhall 1 / 7; Avg 7,0; 0 TD; long after hit: 58; Br. tackl.:1

Defense (away first)
Pancake: 2 - 1
Sacks: 2 - 1
Tackles: 8 - 5 (most for a single player, not total)
Pass Deflections: 10 - 4 (total)
Forced Fumbles: 2 - 0

Notes:
On D, I stick to bills advise and played SS all the time...and tried to stay out of everything. I made about 2 Tackles the whole game...so the rest is all CPU on both sides!

Things worth mentioning:
- I saw the first real "fair catch"...I rushed towards Holmes, who signaled just a second before he caught...was the first time that I saw that this close. Usually, they let the ball just pass.
- I just saw the first CPU QB avoidance. My MLB was about to get the stack...Big Ben made a quick step and pushed him aside with one hand.
- On a PA play, Spaeth was my intended receiver. Due to the PA,he tried to block a CB...who slips by and Spaeth felt. I was nearly sacked because he went down and the CPU was blitzung
- If the D calls an overload blitz (or there are more pass rushers then blockers), the pressure is REALLY high...the QB has about 1 sec (!) to do something.
- On average, the QB has about 4-7 sec. on both sides (manually counted the seconds, so don't flame if they are not correct )
- If the D pressures a good WR with a not-soo-good DB, the WR will use his chance and a big play CAN happen.
- The QB generally tends to throw risky, if you pressure him. And for pressure, it's enough if he sees someone coming (and I mean if he SEEs someone. If the rusher comes from behind, he will just throw a duck [or whatever it's called ^^])
-The Fumble was very reasonable...Holmes was already on orange concerning fatigue..he caught,made 1 step and got a big hit -> fumble.
- The INT also was very reasonable. The QB was pressured (FS was blitzing)...the RB was still a cover back, but the QB nevertheless throws a risky pass..the receiver seemed open, but the LB caught it.
- You can clearly see the difference between unpressured and pressured throws...the ball floats way more if thrown under pressure.
- The CPU really over- and underthrows balls...even rarely on open receivers with no pressure on deep balls.
- With pressure, they might even miss short targets sometimes.
- Some Big play attempts by both sides, but none was succesfull

@Bill,
unfortunatly, I already exited the game, so I can't review the situation....BUT it happened again.
Again it was with Troy, so I think it can be bound with the AWR rating.

To your questions from my memory:
1.) No, the pressure was low/the DB was quiete a bit away from the receiver. Never happend on close contact
2.) No
3.) There were not "superhuman" turns.

Maybe my description just sucked *g*

Let's say Polalamu is on Man against Ward...as of his position, Troy is about 15 yds away.
When the play begins, Ward is rushing towards Troy...about 5 yds before he got to him, he make small steps and initiate the momentumshift/turn to the left.
Now Troy is backpaddling while Ward is on his way...no small step animation...but simultaneous with Ward, he shifts do the left and turns...they nearly (just nearly) do the same animation at the same time...I think it shall be some kind of "anticipation" route...again I think there is just a propper animation missing.

Troys turn looks as natural as Wards, but as they do it at the exact same time, it looks like Troy knows exactly where the Route is going.

I hope I could help a bit.
:]

Having a great time with these setting...I will do some more testing tomorrow...here it's about midnight, so I hope I can catch some hours of sleep before work starts again *g*

Again bill....GREAT job on these sliders!

[nxt]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

And here we go...with a very suprising result...

I played quite normal but a bit more conservative then I usually do.

Roster from 19/08/09 without any modifications.

12 Mins/25 sec. run-pff
Very Slow
65 Threshold
60 Fatigue/60 Injury

Auto-Subs:
QB 55/80
RB 83/84
WR 82/83
FB/TE 75/80
OL 60/80
DT 84/85
DE 83/84
LB 65/80
CB 60/80
S 60/80

Special Teams:
FG Power: 55
FG Acc: 47
Punt Power: 55
Punt Acc: 47
Kick Power: 50

Penalties:
Holding 49
Facemask 60
Clipping 65
Rest 100

Shadox - What are your skill and cpu skill sliders set at?

*edit* NM, I'm guessing their bills sliders on page 5. Did you make any other adjustments?

[shadox]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Nope...everything as I wrote it.

[nxt]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Nope...everything as I wrote it.

The CPU running needs some help with these... assuming the Parker 11/23, Avg 2.0 ypc is by CPU.

[g2thecore]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

The CPU running needs some help with these... assuming the Parker 11/23, Avg 2.0 ypc is by CPU.

That's not an issue...I'll just use his sliders, and use my running sliders. I haven't had any issues with the CPU running against me. So far every back has averaged at least 4.0 ypc on my Eagles D in franchise.

[Justin Clark]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Just got done with a game using these sliders, with a few very minor tweaks. I gotta say, for just slinging them together at work, Bill, you came up with a pretty good starting point. Cant wait to see what you come up with in a couple days (hopefully sooner)

I played as the falcons against the bengals. I won 38-28 but it wasnt as close as it seems. I didnt note all of the stats but Palmer started off very slow but ended up with 350ish yard, 3 tds, and 2 ints, while Matt ryan had 260 yards with 1 td and 1 int.

Turner ran for about 24 attempts for 160 yards but 55 of them came for a long run in the fourt quarter. The bengals had signed Edgerin James (2nd year of my chise) and he only ran for around 40 yards, which i would say is pretty realistic.

Only thing that concerned me was that i didnt have any sacks and the bengals line isnt supposed to be all that great. Palmer would get rid of it right before my guys would get to him, which is getting to be the norm no matter what sliders i use.

But all in all, great starting point and i enjoyed playing the game.

[bravesfan1984]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

just got done playing another game with these sliders and had another great game...im enjoying these sliders a lot!

[stmark]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

just got done playing another game with these sliders and had another great game...im enjoying these sliders a lot!

did anyone use versus's sliders those are the best there is a thread for it and check his you tube vids out great stuff

http://www.youtube.com/user/versuz2#play/uploads/7/CRV4G4gEmi4

[Steeler99]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Bill,
I haven't had as chance to try your sliders yet, but assuming this test/thread continues to grow, you will probably want to edit your first post to always show updated sliders. This makes it much easier for everyone to follow and try your settings ... especially anyone joing in late.

[bill2451]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

glad you guys are enjoying them, but i'd hardly call them "my sliders"... my sliders havent really been created yet, that was as was mentioned by justin something I just threw together in a couple minutes at work without actually ever playing with any sliders close to this

still testing, noticed a few interesting things... first of all, as I mentioned before, WR catching ability plays a big part in the defensive back "knowing your route"... the lower the catching the more of a jump the DB gets and vice versa (easily tested in practice mode if you want to varify... just set WR catching at 0 and run the same play a bunch of times with the cpu in man (I usually go with a square route towards the middle, easy to see the jump the db gets), note, with 50 reaction time how early the db is usually jumping on the route... now give the WR 100 catching and do the same thing a bunch more times... now note that the jump the db is getting is quite a bit less

what is interesting though is that Pass Block also effects the jump the db gets... it is far less noticable, but it is there... put your receiver at 0 catching this time (because thats what it was at when i was testing) and your Pass Block at 100 and run the same square route to the middle. Note the CB usually does that unrealistic turning of the hips and changing direction without actually planting (they kind of just float and spin) right around the time the receiver has his foot planted to make the cut (if only the cb's used momentum more often like the receivers)... now put your Pass Block at 0 and do the same thing... this time the unrealistic floaty turning thing happens when the WR is taking his small steps before he plants his foot to cut... run it a bunch of times both ways (because obviously the same thing doesnt happen every single time, but more often than not this is the case)

its not a huge thing, but it seems like higher Pass Block create a kind of "stickiness" that prevents that slighly bigger seperation more of the time... kind of like a suction coverage version of the suction block (which unlike the suction block isnt bad, because it means the DB isnt getting as big a jump on the route)

its definately interesting stuff to say the least, not game changing and shouldnt effect sliders really, i just thought it was strage that as Pass Block went up, the DB didnt turn/cut off the route quite as quickly

[bill2451]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Bill,
I haven't had as chance to try your sliders yet, but assuming this test/thread continues to grow, you will probably want to edit your first post to always show updated sliders. This makes it much easier for everyone to follow and try your settings ... especially anyone joing in late.

yeah, ill do that... not with this set though, as its not really a set imo

i just wanted someone to test the general theory out and see how the line/coverage interactions were... the sliders themselves are about as far from refined as they can get considering i put them together in 2 minutes using quick estimations and have never even played with them lol

but its a good idea and def something I will do when i actually work on a real set

[bill2451]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

I must say though, the initial reaction from you guys is great to hear... i really wasnt sure what to expect

gives me confidence i didnt just make all this up and was somehow completely off base in figuring out how the sliders actually work

[tyler289]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Played 3 quarters of game using these, on "fast" speed. I really like how that speed is, slow just makes me feel like the players are in quicksand.

It was solid. Steelers vs. Bills. Marshawn had like a 70 yard run when he broke free of a 3-man tackle...I hate to see stuff like that, especially when the tacklers are two LBs. But, other than that, really good. I can get pressure with my 3-4 OLBs consistently.

Passing game was pretty good, I was like 10-17 and Edwards was similar. I lowered RB broken tackles for both CPU and human because the running game just saw too many broken tackles - there was at least 1 pr play.

[booker21]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

where are the sliders ? i didn`t see a set on the first post.

[bababooey76]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Ok so I want some sliders that boosts the cpu run game, and makes it harder for Player on offense. Can anyone help. I have tweaked and it is just too easy it seems.