Backbreaker Video: Developer Diary #1

[rckabillyRaider]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

I dont think I'll be able to play very well with a 3rd person camera view. Hope they have other camera options

[TheKasmar]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

I know the angle and positioning say otherwise, but the number (17) indicates that the guy who caught the ball was a wide receiver.

I'm well aware that it was a wide reciever. I was making the point that the defense responded well by making the tackle.

[allBthere]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

Woah hold up the devs are from England? Sure the tackles look perfect but how do we know that the AI will be good considering they're from England? How do we know that they'll have good playbooks? Do they know the advanced offensive and defensive sets? What about simple audibles at the line from both sides?

you're ignorant. that's all I can say really...you think because these guys are from another country that it isn't possible for them to understand a sport? Boxing in canada isn't exactly the same as the US, yet most people consider recent fight night game to be the best (developed by canadians). They've also had help from ex nfl coaches, and are quite possibly bigger NFL fans than most people on this board. You should travel dude...could be a humbling experience for you.

I've been looking forward to this game for a long time...and one of the best things about imo is that it should finally be FUN to play defence! imagine that.

[JayBee74]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

I'm well aware that it was a wide reciever. I was making the point that the defense responded well by making the tackle.

oh

[creed200569]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

I dont think I'll be able to play very well with a 3rd person camera view. Hope they have other camera options

Its not that bad. Yeah you may not be able to see the whole field, but it still looks like you can see where you want to throw it pretty good. I love the new camera angle and look forward to seeing all the action up close.

[JerseySuave4]

Woah hold up the devs are from England? Sure the tackles look perfect but how do we know that the AI will be good considering they're from England? How do we know that they'll have good playbooks? Do they know the advanced offensive and defensive sets? What about simple audibles at the line from both sides?

hahah as i was reading through the replies i was wondering how long it was gonna be before someone mentioned this.

When i started watching the video this was the 1st thing that stuck out to me, its a bunch of British guys. Now i'm not saying they dont understand football or anything but maybe it explains why it looks like more of an arcadish game than a sim. I just thought it was funny that these guys were all british.

As for the vid, it did nothing to make me want to get the game. I thought Madden was boring once again and i got rid of it after just 2 weeks. I think the technology can maybe push companies like EA to try new things but as for Backbreaker, its done nothing to make me think that its just one of those arcadish games that will try and appeal to those who just like big hits and gimmicks rather than Sim football.

Not worth buying when there are much better games like MLB The Show 10 & UFC Undisputed 2010 coming out. I'll play the demo, maybe rent it, but i'm not wasting my money on this game.

[Facts]

you're ignorant. that's all I can say really...you think because these guys are from another country that it isn't possible for them to understand a sport? Boxing in canada isn't exactly the same as the US, yet most people consider recent fight night game to be the best (developed by canadians). They've also had help from ex nfl coaches, and are quite possibly bigger NFL fans than most people on this board. You should travel dude...could be a humbling experience for you.

I've been looking forward to this game for a long time...and one of the best things about imo is that it should finally be FUN to play defence! imagine that.

1) Boxing is more prominent in Canada then the NFL is in England. Canada's actually had champion boxers. Bad comparison there.

2) You know nothing about me or anyone else on these boards to say whose bigger football fans. How do you know I'm not from the US? Heh and you're calling me ignorant?

3) That's cool you're looking forward for this game. As for me, all I've heard so far was the contact part of the game. There is so much more to football than just hits. Here's my other concerns.

- Secondary reactions - Will they swat at the ball or just look at it?

- Coverages - Let's pray they don't cover the flats like Madden 10 did.

- Complex Playbooks - Can we choose between the spread and I formations or will we all have the same playbooks?

- Blocking - Will the O-Line TRY to block the right guys?

- Can you call audibles on both sides of the ball?

All I heard so far was the tackling engine and camera angles. Nothing so far said with the AI.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" forums="" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="2" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype>

<st1:time minute="31" hour="14">...snippet...

</st1:time> Sorry guys I went through and made a point to find the issues and there is plenty. I did not think there was that much in such a short video but there is a ton and they are BAD!!

Short Version:
Reason for why defensive backs "seems" to be running out of position has to do with the following combination.
(1) The incorporation of non-traditional EAST-WEST camera angles on top of your traditional NORTH-SOUTH camera angle.
(2) The perception of speed. Perception of speed is much, much faster up close & personal on the field (Backbreaker speed) vs. sitting in the nose bleed section.

Long Version:
I am only going to do a few of these in this post. Discuss amongst yourselves or bypass my post if you choose. Either way, it's simply my take on the situation. No smart remarks please.

When you look at these game footage, you have to keep in mind these are not your traditional camera angles. Backbreaker gameplay uses more than your simple traditional NORTH-SOUTH camera angles (e.g. NFL2K5/APF2K8, EAMadden, etc.).

It includes a new EAST-WEST camera angle as well. This is why some of your defensive backs (or other tacklers) seems to be running in the "wrong direction." It's not necessarily true because physics/momentum is keeping them moving in a straight line. This happens when the camera zooms in the EAST-WEST, NORTH-WEST or NORTH-EAST direction. Look at where the green grass & white field lines are with respect to how the players are moving. Their initial position makes a difference.

Also keep in mind with the camera being truly up close and personal, the actual perception of "speed" looks exponentially faster on the field compared to "sky-vision"
(1A) Stand still in the middle of field at the 50 yard line. Usain Bolt speed passes you.
(2A) Spectator sitting in the nose bleed section. Spectator sees Usain running right by you.
(1B) Your perception on field = Usain is lighting fast.
(2B) Spectator seast = Usain is "slower"

Example of weird AI
:29 sec - WR jumps for ball and makes catch. CB trailing him turns away from WR

1. In this case, there are multiple defensive backs down field in the secondary ahead of the CB
2. WR jumps for the ball.
3. The CB is trailing the WR, but is looking at two things: (A) the ball in the air, (B) the secondary defensive backs down field.
4. There is an "awareness" the CB has for his secondary. He slows up, and allows the secondary to make the tackle.
5. Review the footage and it makes sense. Please note the camera angles (east/west/north/south)



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:37 Sec - QB passes ball over middle on post route to WR. Right side Safety runs AWAY from where the ball is being passed, even though he has his shoulders square to the QB at point when ball is being passed and is in air. He was in position to make a big hit on WR.

1. The QB pass leads the WR from west to east.
2. The WR is running WEST-EAST.
3. The CB is going SOUTH-NORTH and attempts an interception.
4. Momentum takes WR from west to east.
5. Momentum takes the CB from south to north.
6. This CB is also "aware" of his defensive teammates coming in for a tackle.
7. Keep note on the camera angle (east/west/north/south).

1:13-1:14 - Yellow jersey WR makes post grab over middle and same Right Safety turns and run in wrong direction AGAIN on a similar play. Taking him out the play. Not only that but at the start of the play he has his back to the WR with NO ONE past him......strange funky Ai there.

1. Here there are actually two different WR. Receiver one (WR#81) is in the middle of the field. The second WR#2 is all the way to the left in the picture (lower right 4^th). Here you will see three football players: 2 CB and 1 WR.
2. Assumption here: For whatever ridiculous reasons, WR#2 will be triple covered with the help of the “Right Safety” in the middle of the field. Initially, “Right Safety” is running counterclockwise towards WR#2 to give triple coverage maybe because of a “pump fake.”
3. Then the 2 CB sees the actual pass towards the middle of the field to WR(#81). “Right Safety” sees his 2 CB react. Both CB looks and move towards the middle of the field. “Right Safety” sees his 2 CB leaving the assign WR#2.
4. “Right Safety” now needs to make a clockwise 360 degree turn to face SOUTH-EAST to put himself in a position to make a defensive play.
5. WR(#81) catches the ball and heads NORTH-WEST fast well before the “Right Safety” can make the complete clockwise 360 degree turn. WR(#81) speed burst moves right pass “Right Safety.”
6. “Right Safety” looks out of position because physics/momentum keeps him going in a straight line PLUS the combination of WR#81 speed and NORTH-WEST camera angle.

<st1:time minute="31" hour="14">2:31-2:36</st1:time> - Same thing over and over. You can clearly see the weight of the defensive players taking them out the play over and over.

Sorry guys I went through and made a point to find the issues and there is plenty. I did not think there was that much in such a short video but there is a ton and they are BAD!!

Isn’t weight what gives player’s momentum? Physics/Momentum keeps a football player moving forward in a straight line. This is why the defensive player’s weight (and subsequent momentum) takes them out of the play. In order to change direction, the player needs to foot plant himself to stop the momentum first. You can’t defy the laws of physics.

EDIT/Correction: For the other video clips that you mentioned ("frozen" defender and "turn around" defender with touchdown pass over his head to WR). I just reviewed the video and they are in very slow motion. Slowed video may sometimes cause visual discrepancies. There could be reasons for these defender "unawareness," or they could have misjudged the pass. The "frozen" defender could very well have been frozen because of a "rocket laser pass" or "by a preceding pump fake" and he might well be s-l-o-w-l-y making his turn up field. Real time gameplay footage may better reveal the defenders "unawareness/awareness." But the video cut away from his next move/action. We don't know until we know the context of the play, their assignment and their reaction on field. We need to keep Backbreaker gameplay footage within context, and the gamer (player or CPU induced). Quick clips really don’t show the whole picture. We need to take into account player position, physics/momentum, their assignment and their original intended route, plus camera angle.
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
Nevertheless, if there is in fact a problem, team Backbreaker should be aware of them and make the suitable adjustments/correction/coding.

Plus, the more and more I see this 3rd person camera view (North/South/East/West), I am actually getting use to it, and actually looks intensely promising. I like it.

Yeah I know, long post. No smart remarks please. Thanks.

[JayBee74]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

hahah as i was reading through the replies i was wondering how long it was gonna be before someone mentioned this.

When i started watching the video this was the 1st thing that stuck out to me, its a bunch of British guys. Now i'm not saying they dont understand football or anything but maybe it explains why it looks like more of an arcadish game than a sim. I just thought it was funny that these guys were all british.

As for the vid, it did nothing to make me want to get the game. I thought Madden was boring once again and i got rid of it after just 2 weeks. I think the technology can maybe push companies like EA to try new things but as for Backbreaker, its done nothing to make me think that its just one of those arcadish games that will try and appeal to those who just like big hits and gimmicks rather than Sim football.

Not worth buying when there are much better games like MLB The Show 10 & UFC Undisputed 2010 coming out. I'll play the demo, maybe rent it, but i'm not wasting my money on this game.

The prejudging of this game continues! You're NOT saying that a Englishman doesn't understand football, but it's the first thing that "stuck out to you", and explains why it looks more "arcadish than sim." (EXTREMELY CONTRADICTORY STATEMENT).

Why do some of you want EA to latch on to this technology? Even JerseySuave here who thinks Madden is "boring"? They can't get there own thing right, so that naturally means they'll succeed using someone else's tech?

Why does this game look arcadish too you?

So did you know that MLB The Show and UFC Undisputed were good games before you played the demo or read a full review?

So this revolutionary technology that boring Madden should adopt is a gimmick or just a devise to produce "big hits"? Those hits didn't look realistic to you?

[Segagendude]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

Meh. Rental only. If that.

[thedude213]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

I haven't been this excited about a game in so long. I'm with some of you and hope that they iron out all of the AI kinks before release. But one of my major concerns in the camera angles. Now don't get me wrong, I'm really excited about the 3rd Person View, but I'm just thinking about local multiplayer. They said that they will have splitscreen, but I just don't think that will work well for football. It would be too congested on the screen, so I would suggest they at least put in an overhead camera as just an option. They seem a little stubborn, and I fear that they are trying to be so different that they will miss some of the features that have worked in past games.

[JayBee74]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

They said that they will have splitscreen, but I just don't think that will work well for football. It would be too congested on the screen, so I would suggest they at least put in an overhead camera as just an option. They seem a little stubborn, and I fear that they are trying to be so different that they will miss some of the features that have worked in past games.

I like their consistency on this matter. The essence of this game is the unique camera perspective and the tackling engine.

[Dalsanto0026]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

First day I posted on the BB forums and I must say that is the biggest group of immature idiots I have ever neglected myself to.

I am a football fan first, these guys are blind fanboys. I stated that their are some key fundamentals off in the defense and spacing in many of the clips in the video and they make immature posts to get a rise.

Some people I will never understand.

Sounds alot like this site.

I'm looking forward to this game.
Euphoria should be used in all sports games.

[Dalsanto0026]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

while I know there will be flaws, more likely than not some bad AI, missing features, head scratching bugs, etc, here is what I'm excited about... the future

This is arguably the most significant "game engine" change in gaming history... by far the most significant change in the last 2 generation of consoles

for years and years mo-cap has been the only way to go, and euphoria is the first engine to really change that... I truly believe this is the beginning of a monumental shift in how video games work. For years and years development teams have simply been adding animations, every year they tout "200 new goalie animations added, etc" and despite that, mo-cap will never be able to satisfy sports gamings future goals... developers have made better strides in mo-cap, making the animations possible to "break out of" to create a chain, etc, but it will always feel "canned" (bb's word, I know), it will always feel a bit scripted

Backbreaker is our first peak into the future... and while it will obviously have flaws, for me it is the symbolism the game holds, the technology driving it, that excites me.

physics based engines (not necessarily even euphoria) will be the wave of the future... and I'm excited to see the first one in action, despite the flaws it will have

Great post bill. I totally agree.

[Afrikan]

Re: Backbreaker Developer Diary Video #1 (Gamespot)

<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" forums="" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="2" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype>


Short Version:
Reason for why defensive backs "seems" to be running out of position has to do with the following combination.
(1) The incorporation of non-traditional EAST-WEST camera angles on top of your traditional NORTH-SOUTH camera angle.
(2) The perception of speed. Perception of speed is much, much faster up close & personal on the field (Backbreaker speed) vs. sitting in the nose bleed section.

Long Version:
I am only going to do a few of these in this post. Discuss amongst yourselves or bypass my post if you choose. Either way, it's simply my take on the situation. No smart remarks please.

When you look at these game footage, you have to keep in mind these are not your traditional camera angles. Backbreaker gameplay uses more than your simple traditional NORTH-SOUTH camera angles (e.g. NFL2K5/APF2K8, EAMadden, etc.).

It includes a new EAST-WEST camera angle as well. This is why some of your defensive backs (or other tacklers) seems to be running in the "wrong direction." It's not necessarily true because physics/momentum is keeping them moving in a straight line. This happens when the camera zooms in the EAST-WEST, NORTH-WEST or NORTH-EAST direction. Look at where the green grass & white field lines are with respect to how the players are moving. Their initial position makes a difference.

Also keep in mind with the camera being truly up close and personal, the actual perception of "speed" looks exponentially faster on the field compared to "sky-vision"
(1A) Stand still in the middle of field at the 50 yard line. Usain Bolt speed passes you.
(2A) Spectator sitting in the nose bleed section. Spectator sees Usain running right by you.
(1B) Your perception on field = Usain is lighting fast.
(2B) Spectator seast = Usain is "slower"



1. In this case, there are multiple defensive backs down field in the secondary ahead of the CB
2. WR jumps for the ball.
3. The CB is trailing the WR, but is looking at two things: (A) the ball in the air, (B) the secondary defensive backs down field.
4. There is an "awareness" the CB has for his secondary. He slows up, and allows the secondary to make the tackle.
5. Review the footage and it makes sense. Please note the camera angles (east/west/north/south)



<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->


1. The QB pass leads the WR from west to east.
2. The WR is running WEST-EAST.
3. The CB is going SOUTH-NORTH and attempts an interception.
4. Momentum takes WR from west to east.
5. Momentum takes the CB from south to north.
6. This CB is also "aware" of his defensive teammates coming in for a tackle.
7. Keep note on the camera angle (east/west/north/south).






1. Here there are actually two different WR. Receiver one (WR#81) is in the middle of the field. The second WR#2 is all the way to the left in the picture (lower right 4^th). Here you will see three football players: 2 CB and 1 WR.
2. Assumption here: For whatever ridiculous reasons, WR#2 will be triple covered with the help of the “Right Safety” in the middle of the field. Initially, “Right Safety” is running counterclockwise towards WR#2 to give triple coverage maybe because of a “pump fake.”
3. Then the 2 CB sees the actual pass towards the middle of the field to WR(#81). “Right Safety” sees his 2 CB react. Both CB looks and move towards the middle of the field. “Right Safety” sees his 2 CB leaving the assign WR#2.
4. “Right Safety” now needs to make a clockwise 360 degree turn to face SOUTH-EAST to put himself in a position to make a defensive play.
5. WR(#81) catches the ball and heads NORTH-WEST fast well before the “Right Safety” can make the complete clockwise 360 degree turn. WR(#81) speed burst moves right pass “Right Safety.”
6. “Right Safety” looks out of position because physics/momentum keeps him going in a straight line PLUS the combination of WR#81 speed and NORTH-WEST camera angle.





Isn’t weight what gives player’s momentum? Physics/Momentum keeps a football player moving forward in a straight line. This is why the defensive player’s weight (and subsequent momentum) takes them out of the play. In order to change direction, the player needs to foot plant himself to stop the momentum first. You can’t defy the laws of physics.

EDIT/Correction: For the other video clips that you mentioned ("frozen" defender and "turn around" defender with touchdown pass over his head to WR). I just reviewed the video and they are in very slow motion. Slowed video may sometimes cause visual discrepancies. There could be reasons for these defender "unawareness," or they could have misjudged the pass. The "frozen" defender could very well have been frozen because of a "rocket laser pass" or "by a preceding pump fake" and he might well be s-l-o-w-l-y making his turn up field. Real time gameplay footage may better reveal the defenders "unawareness/awareness." But the video cut away from his next move/action. We don't know until we know the context of the play, their assignment and their reaction on field. We need to keep Backbreaker gameplay footage within context, and the gamer (player or CPU induced). Quick clips really don’t show the whole picture. We need to take into account player position, physics/momentum, their assignment and their original intended route, plus camera angle.
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
Nevertheless, if there is in fact a problem, team Backbreaker should be aware of them and make the suitable adjustments/correction/coding.

Plus, the more and more I see this 3rd person camera view (North/South/East/West), I am actually getting use to it, and actually looks intensely promising. I like it.

Yeah I know, long post. No smart remarks please. Thanks.

quoted for new page, great work!