The State of the Association

[jordankobewade7]

lol fanatics always overreact...
I'm not sneaking anything into my posts I strongly believe that.
I liked lives jumpshooting alot more because the stars and most of the other players had much more accurate sig jumpers. And live had Great momentum shots meanwhile 2k10 did not. 2k10 had terrible jumpshooting, the terrible spacing and crazy closeouts ruined that part of the game. This year 2k11 looks to have the best jumpshooting ever..aswell as spacing.

Ok then I agree with the momentum jumpers and the fact that 2k10 did have crazy closeouts and super recovery speed all around...but the jumpers in live don't let the players get off the ground,especially the default shot,the player didn't even jump at all,and if they did it was credit card vertical...lol...and I'm no fanatic,I loved both games at a point,like last yr was great...

[drss]

Right after I read the heavily biased internet fanboi rant that characterized the Elite roundtable, which just about "crashed OS's stocks" for me, I read this article and was reward with an excellent analysis where logic reigns and fanboi cries are nowhere to be found.

Thank you for a good read. You saved OS's stocks from crashing.

There is no denying that Elite's implementation of the stick controls are not quite there yet. But I think it can be done; because even in its current incomplete, rushed, beta form, it managed to be fun and for some, even feel kind of like bball.

They made it work for hockey, football, skateboarding. They probably can make it work for bball. Just not yet with Elite.

How the controls make sense eventually, how it takes shape later on and mature, is ultimately up to them to design. We gamers like to take a few moments and think about it and if we can't get an idea we decide it cant be done. But the devs has a team, who get paid, and given time to work on it. Our guesses inbetween toilet breaks might not be able to come up with a solution in comparison.

[jordankobewade7]

I don't disagree with you on this one Rocboyz. Live 10's jumpshooting was more responsive and fun. Was it more realistic? Maybe, maybe not. It seemed like some guys caught fire for no reason, and the timing on the shots was so random and ratings based. Even when I felt I hit the groove with one player's stroke, wide open looks weren't falling. Now maybe this was the game balancing out the previous two 3's I hit with a player. I think that the DNA really influenced this aspect and detracted from the game's shooting - but it was very minor. In NBA2K10, pulling fade aways off and momentum jumpers are clunky. Meaning: I see an opening on the floor that I want to drive to and take a jump at but the time my player goes through the animation of dribbling to the open space, gathering, and going up, my shot is contested; sometimes even I wound up in the wrong spot on the floor so that was discerning. But, 2K10 did have the edge with the timing and release points on the shots in my opinion. Signature style shots felt about the same to me. I think I would give 2k10 the edge there because of all their great free throw routines - great detail in there. But Live definitely had a nice tight, and responsive feel to your ballers out there and I think that's why so many people enjoyed it - even though it doesn't mirror NBA basketball as much as 2K10 does

I def agree too that fadeaways were clunky and looked/felt weird in 2k,but jumpshots themselves I felt were better because of what you said about the players being on fire. In 2k10 I felt I could catch fire just by getting a good feel for the stick and just getting consistant good looks. But in live 10 idk if it was just the way the ball falls through the net,(probably is)but the jumpshots feel scripted,like if the game knew it was going in as it left my hand,it was really apparent in 09,playing online especially I could tell you exactly whether or not it would fall,the arc was way up on made jumpers,which weren't extremely different in live10. It was wayyyy less obvious,but playing enough it was there. So that's another thing that irritated for me.

What about association tho?what do you guys have to say about lives lack of improvement or major additions to dynasty since around '05...that's 6yrs,including this year,since I'm almost sure nothing got touched this year either. That's a long time,and just plain unacceptable inmy book

[SBartlett]

I def agree too that fadeaways were clunky and looked/felt weird in 2k,but jumpshots themselves I felt were better because of what you said about the players being on fire. In 2k10 I felt I could catch fire just by getting a good feel for the stick and just getting consistant good looks. But in live 10 idk if it was just the way the ball falls through the net,(probably is)but the jumpshots feel scripted,like if the game knew it was going in as it left my hand,it was really apparent in 09,playing online especially I could tell you exactly whether or not it would fall,the arc was way up on made jumpers,which weren't extremely different in live10. It was wayyyy less obvious,but playing enough it was there. So that's another thing that irritated for me.

What about association tho?what do you guys have to say about lives lack of improvement or major additions to dynasty since around '05...that's 6yrs,including this year,since I'm almost sure nothing got touched this year either. That's a long time,and just plain unacceptable inmy book

Yeah scripted is probably the best way to describe some of the shots in Live10 - but it still felt fun and responsive. As far as the Association Mode vs. Live's GM mode, EA's team focused on rebuilding the framework of their game play it would seem. I actually had a conversation with Ian Cummings on this in Madden as well. You know, the studios took a gamble focusing on game play this year in Madden so much and they are aware that they ignore the dynasty/franchise mode.

It's a gamble the development team takes, and perhaps upper mangt. has influence here as well. It goes to show you that a 12 month dev. cycle is not enough to cover all the bases. When they release a game, typically they work on a few patches while beginning the new project. So it's easily less than 12 months.

So as a dev. team, you focus on goals you lay out. In the case of Elite, I am assuming it was revamping the physics and controls - a major major task. I still don't think it's complete! Even with the release of this title. So that's a problem. If they were to have another 4 months maybe, and release the game near the All-Star break, maybe we are looking at a better title - who knows.

NBA Live 10's dynasty was sad, though. All the incoming rookies had the same face...lol. Clearly something is going on in that studio that isn't good. They need help and direction...and more time.

[Fngb3]

Yeah scripted is probably the best way to describe some of the shots in Live10 - but it still felt fun and responsive. As far as the Association Mode vs. Live's GM mode, EA's team focused on rebuilding the framework of their game play it would seem. I actually had a conversation with Ian Cummings on this in Madden as well. You know, the studios took a gamble focusing on game play this year in Madden so much and they are aware that they ignore the dynasty/franchise mode.

It's a gamble the development team takes, and perhaps upper mangt. has influence here as well. It goes to show you that a 12 month dev. cycle is not enough to cover all the bases. When they release a game, typically they work on a few patches while beginning the new project. So it's easily less than 12 months.

So as a dev. team, you focus on goals you lay out. In the case of Elite, I am assuming it was revamping the physics and controls - a major major task. I still don't think it's complete! Even with the release of this title. So that's a problem. If they were to have another 4 months maybe, and release the game near the All-Star break, maybe we are looking at a better title - who knows.

NBA Live 10's dynasty was sad, though. All the incoming rookies had the same face...lol. Clearly something is going on in that studio that isn't good. They need help and direction...and more time.

Do you know if the limitations are more to do with man-power or something like syncopation. I mean to say, can they not improve on gameplay and franchise modes because they don't have enough people? Or is there some issue with upgrading both at the same time where they won't work together?

I'm just unaware of how game development works in that regard... I'm sure there's a reason they can't do both but I'm not sure exactly what it is...

[SBartlett]

Do you know if the limitations are more to do with man-power or something like syncopation. I mean to say, can they not improve on gameplay and franchise modes because they don't have enough people? Or is there some issue with upgrading both at the same time where they won't work together?

I'm just unaware of how game development works in that regard... I'm sure there's a reason they can't do both but I'm not sure exactly what it is...

I can't say since I don't develop games but I would think it's a combination of both time and man-power.

[UntilTheNxtRnd]

I'm thinking now that for some reason the Devs picked the Lakers only so you can really see the full spectrum of the controls on offense via that sick video demonstration by Momentous. If that was the plan all along they got that off. But it still would of been nice to have a longer demo. But I guess they wanted to save the moment that hot girl you always wanted to see with it all out for the 5th of Oct instead of the demo. LoL. Tease!

[josher898]

cant wait for the game

[josher898]

cant wait for the game

[Schnoop]

I think it is becoming a walk on the edge in making games more and more realistic. Because the closer you come to perfection the heavier the smallest deviation from realism will weigh. For sure I would love to have something in perfection but a little abstraction should be because otherwise you wouldn't enjoy the real game anymore or perhaps to a smaller extent.

I'm a die hard soccer fan and also quite interested in basketball. And of course there are flaws in FIFA, but it is OK to be in there. It is too easy to play some passes. The most signifcant flaw is that the AI will set you under pressure, even if you have the ball in your defence, constantly the whole game long. You wouldn't see that in a real soccer game. It will happen for a few minutes or phases during a game, but not the complete 90 minutes. I could go on for while but this will be too much.

For basketball I sometimes like the slight arcarde feel you have in the games. I like it being able to sometimes exploit the drive or the post. But on the other hand I like a realistic touch, e.g. a decent post game, and I also like realistic graphics. That's why NBA Jam can be a nice option once in a while but will never have the long term attraction for me as the other two have (same with FIFA Street). But I like the abstraction which is also in those games.