Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

[Vashyron.]

I've played only 10 games now and I've already seen Carlos Beltran and Jayson Werth batting leadoff. And, the Rockies had Todd Helton batting 8th. It's seriously not that hard to write lineup logic. This is the 9th game in the series, lineup logic should be good by now. I realize some teams have odd lineups like Alfonso Soriano used to be a leadoff hitter so you can't ask the lineup logic to reflect real baseball perfectly, but the attributes of both Jayson Werth and Carlos Beltran do not indicate they are leadoff hitters, both have too much power. And, how and why is Todd Helton hitting 8th? It makes no sense to have someone with those kind of attributes hitting 8th.

[dbacks_Nation]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I'm sure it's a lot harder to write the logic than you think. These problems have been occurring since the early 2000s or before that.

[Redacted01]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Billy Martin won a game with a random batting order. Just go with it.

And I second the "not as easy as it sounds" point. 99% of the time, the people that say that, have never programmed, or never done more than the easy programming assignment for school. Nothing anywhere near as dynamic as that. Hell, I've programmed some pretty crazy simulations and I wouldn't know how to make a "proper" batting order as there is no such thing. Just because you think someone should bat somewhere (usually by name recognition and ignoring everything else), doesn't mean they actually should.

[Beetlebum]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Funny thing happened yesterday, I was playing against the Angels and the game was tied 3-3 in the top of the 9th, the CPU brings in Trumbo to pinch hit for Iannetta... Trumbo flies out and in the bottom of the 9th...


... he stays in as a catcher.

[Redacted01]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Funny thing happened yesterday, I was playing against the Angels and the game was tied 3-3 in the top of the 9th, the CPU brings in Trumbo to pinch hit for Iannetta... Trumbo flies out and in the bottom of the 9th...


... he stays in as a catcher.

I think the game considers catcher as an IF and if they are capable of playing infield positions, they stay in at catcher as I've seen multiple people say this. It is the only clear reason I can see why they'd stay in, unless the backup catcher was injured for some reason.

[Vashyron.]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I'm sure it's a lot harder to write the logic than you think. These problems have been occurring since the early 2000s or before that.

How lineups should be programmed:

1st) You determine the 3rd place hitter, best overall hitter, great contact and at least a power of 50 or higher. Look for the best contact guy and place the best contact guy with at least 50 power there.

2nd) You place in the #4 hitter, the most power with contact being at least 50.

3rd) The #5 hitter is whoever has the most power after picking the #3 and #4 hitters.

4th) Find the leadoff guy. You want a guy with a high OBP and ideally speed. Look at contact, plate discipline and vision, and speed. Look at the players left over with the highest contact. Look at plate discipline next. Then of the 2 best qualified players, take the fastest player for leadoff. Anyone over 50-60 power would be disqualified.

5th) Put the guy that didn't make the leadoff man cut as the number 2 hitter.

6th) Whoever left that has the most power bats 6th.

7th) If a National league team, put the highest contact and discipline guy 8th to hit in front of the pitcher. If American league team, use the same logic to determine the leadoff guy again, and place that hitter 9th.

8th) For NL, place the last player in the 7th spot and the pitcher bats 9th. Place the best contact guy out of the last 2 players 7th and have the last player left bat 8th.

That was just off the top of my head. I'm sure that logic would stop Carlos Beltran and Jayson Werth from hitting 1st, along with stopping Todd Helton hitting 8th. With more time, I could come up with a very solid lineup logic. It really isn't that hard.

[Pared]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

And then you'll have guys on the bench that start over longtime starters.

You have no idea how difficult this is to do. I'm sure if they followed your "off the top of the head" approach you would see all the errors in the "logic" when it is actually executed.

Again, it's not as simple as you think. You see names and that's all you really measure, not hard numbers.

[Knight165]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I don't agree with how you would provide the lineup logic for a game, but there is too much disregard for power in the #1 and #2 spots this year, I agree.

M.K.
Knight165

[jake44np]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

Two things have stuck out in my CHW season so far.
1. When i played the opening series vs the Rangers, Josh Hamilton batted 8th vs me.
2. In my last game of a 3 game seris vs the Tigers they had all kinds of guys playing out of position. Inge was catching, Fielder was playing RF (?), and their back up catcher was playing 2B.

[Redacted01]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

How lineups should be programmed:

1st) You determine the 3rd place hitter, best overall hitter, great contact and at least a power of 50 or higher. Look for the best contact guy and place the best contact guy with at least 50 power there.

2nd) You place in the #4 hitter, the most power with contact being at least 50.

3rd) The #5 hitter is whoever has the most power after picking the #3 and #4 hitters.

4th) Find the leadoff guy. You want a guy with a high OBP and ideally speed. Look at contact, plate discipline and vision, and speed. Look at the players left over with the highest contact. Look at plate discipline next. Then of the 2 best qualified players, take the fastest player for leadoff. Anyone over 50-60 power would be disqualified.

5th) Put the guy that didn't make the leadoff man cut as the number 2 hitter.

6th) Whoever left that has the most power bats 6th.

7th) If a National league team, put the highest contact and discipline guy 8th to hit in front of the pitcher. If American league team, use the same logic to determine the leadoff guy again, and place that hitter 9th.

8th) For NL, place the last player in the 7th spot and the pitcher bats 9th. Place the best contact guy out of the last 2 players 7th and have the last player left bat 8th.

That was just off the top of my head. I'm sure that logic would stop Carlos Beltran and Jayson Werth from hitting 1st, along with stopping Todd Helton hitting 8th. With more time, I could come up with a very solid lineup logic. It really isn't that hard.

And not every team sets up a lineup like this. See Seattle with Ichiro batting 3rd this year. That completely goes against your lineup at #1. There is no one-size-fits-all formula.

[nomo17k]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

This is partly why I want to see variable manager tendency than a fix-them-all approach.

[ILuvMary]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

I was just playing the Atlanta Braves, and David Ross pinched hit in the top of the 9th for the relief pitcher. Then, he stayed in the game in the bottom of the ninth and played second base!

Good thing was, my first batter of the ninth, I hit a ground ball right to the right side of Ross and he couldnt make it there in time and it rolled right under his glove.

In another game, Jason Giambi pinched it for the pitcher and stayed in to
play Left Field. Now I know Giambi used to play the OF but i know as of now, he only pinch hits and plays first.

This turned out well for me tho, as I hit a shallow sac fly to LF and Giambi had one of the softest throws I have ever seen from the OF in this game. I scored easily with a slow runner, in Paul Goldschmidt.

[bkrich83]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

It's seriously not that hard to write lineup logic.

How did you come to that conclusion?

[Redacted01]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

How did you come to that conclusion?

By the simple flow chart he put together that is the be all-end all for lineups.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Lineup logic still needs a lot of work

With more time, I could come up with a very solid lineup logic.

You should work on that, because the logic in your first post was non-existent.