So what's the point of defense in this game?

[Franchise408]

Because it's obviously not to stop the offense.

The defense in this game is so atrocious. Unless you are able to force a turnover, defense does not stop the offense. And before anyone discusses my playcalling - I am in a 32 man online CCM, and there isn't a strong defense anywhere in the entire league.

Even when I call the right play, and have defenders in position, they fail to react to the ball in the air and just stand around with their thumbs up their butts as the offense makes a play that shouldn't have been made. The buttons to actually manually defend the pass (Y and LB on X-Box 360) don't work, as even when I press them the defender I'm controlling does nothing. In zone defense, the defenders do not probably defend against receivers that come into their zone. And in man coverage I've watched my DB's literally run away from receivers...

In the running game, I lose control of my players as they are pulled into blitzing the opposite gap than I assigned them to blitz... appropriately enough, the gap that I was pulled away from is the gap that my opponent is running into. When blitzing against the run or for pass rush, even if I have a wide open path, the player that I am controlling gets pulled away from their path to get sucked into a block... Even though the blocker was away from me.

It seems that literally every game I play comes down to who has the ball last, because the defense simply doesn't stop anyone.

[d11king]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Even when I call the right play, and have defenders in position, they fail to react to the ball in the air and just stand around with their thumbs up their butts as the offense makes a play that shouldn't have been made. The buttons to actually manually defend the pass (Y and LB on X-Box 360) don't work, as even when I press them the defender I'm controlling does nothing. In zone defense, the defenders do not probably defend against receivers that come into their zone. And in man coverage I've watched my DB's literally run away from receivers...

Well firstly, it sounds like you're playing in a league where people can switch to receivers and defensive backs and in my opinion and my opinion only, that's not how the game is supposed to be played. Your DB's probably aren't reacting to the pass because their AWR and PRC ratings are probably low. Can't react to a pass if you don't know what's going on right? For the zone defense, check their zone coverage ratings, along with their AWR and PRC. In the 32 OCCM I'm in, I've gotten all my DB's AWR and PRC to over 87, and they literally react to everything, it really makes a big difference. Granted, you get beat on certain plays, but it's not like that doesn't happen in the NFL.

In the running game, I lose control of my players as they are pulled into blitzing the opposite gap than I assigned them to blitz... appropriately enough, the gap that I was pulled away from is the gap that my opponent is running into. When blitzing against the run or for pass rush, even if I have a wide open path, the player that I am controlling gets pulled away from their path to get sucked into a block... Even though the blocker was away from me.

This is the problem with Madden as I've experienced this countless times. A wide open lane to rush through and all of the sudden, I get sucked into some fat guy who didn't even know what was going on. This is generally why I tend to use the FS or SS, to be able to be the last line of defense in this situations.

It seems that literally every game I play comes down to who has the ball last, because the defense simply doesn't stop anyone.

I can't speak on your league, but the league I'm in had some very very good defensive minded users, and it's a joy to play in when on 10 minute quarters, the final score is 17-14.

[LBzrule]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

LOL to answer the question. To get melted like butter and shredded like cheese WITH Cheese !!

[Bat]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Defense would be fine if people online would actually punt on 4th down.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Personnel dictates defense in this game and most people don't invest in the personnel required on defense based on my experience with other users in CCM.

I'm also in a 32 team league and we only have 4-5 teams that consistently play good defense and hold opponents to low scores. I'm one of them and it's because I build from within, invest XP where it fits my scheme, and always get players to fit the scheme I'm trying to run.

Don't get a bunch of 90 SPD, 60 STR, 60 BSH defensive ends and complain about not being able to stop the run. Don't run out 75-85 MCV cornerbacks and complain about getting burned in man to man.

With the right personnel, a defense can be pretty dominant in this game. The only defensive scheme that seems truly useless from my experience is the zone blitz scheme because the only blitzes that truly work with the Pass Blocking and Offsides sliders high enough are nano blitzes and speed rushes from the LE/LOLB spot. Even then, any good defense should have enough blitzes mixed in.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Defense would be fine if people online would actually punt on 4th down.

I see it in the reverse, people online would actually punt if defense were fine. With the astronomical success rate of 4th down completions on pretty much any defense in the game, the numbers support going for it on 4th in Madden. If there was better adaptive AI in the game, so CPU players were aware of down and distance, the 4th down success rate and consequently people attempting them, would drop significantly, imo.

[Bat]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

[QUOTE=Big FN Deal;2044866447]I see it in the reverse, people online would actually punt if defense were fine. With the astronomical success rate of 4th down completions on pretty much any defense in the game, the numbers support going for it on 4th in Madden. If there was better adaptive AI in the game, so CPU players were aware of down and distance, the 4th down success rate and consequently people attempting them, would drop significantly, imo.[/QUOTE

Good point. I would love ratings to be nerfed on players on 4th down. That might not work but.. better than nothing.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

I didn't mean to suggest they nerf ratings to make 4th downs harder but that the AI/player awareness be programmed better to make their in game actions on 4th down more realistic. For example, having the adaptive AI "play the sticks", being aware of where the offense needs to get to for a 1st and the defense just being more aggressive overall in those type situations. Also, when applicable for the road team, have the crowd get rowdy on 4th down and let that have some applicable effect on the offense too.

No nerfing, just implementing real world parameters so 4th downs have more realistic risk/reward.

[mestevo]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Yup, would be nice if there was a complex system of intangibles influenced/mitigated by experience, chemistry, awareness and coaching. This should be a factor in player behavior on every play governing things like like biting on the run, pump fakes, how defense reacts and sets up on the field for different downs/distances, hurry up. Should affect both sides of the ball too, not just defense.

[splff3000]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

LMAO, I was literally just getting on to make a post about defense in Madden. Good job OP. You beat me to the punch. It's quite obvious that the defense is lacking because there is simply not a lot of attention paid to it. I would guess that 80-90% of the game play upgrades occur on the offensive side of the ball. Compare the offensive and defensive playbooks. Go to create a playbook and look at the enormous amount of formations and plays you have to choose from on offense as opposed to the defense. Hell, they even had the nerve to remove some defensive plays ( where's my Dime/Slot Man Zone) a few years ago even tho the defensive playbook was already nerfed. So don't stress over why your defense isn't working. I'm pretty sure the game is designed to be that way.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

You can only play defense in Madden if your opponent is looking to use their entire playbook and not resort to certain tactics. When I play guys who have great play variety I get the good 27-24 game or, like today, a great 23-13 game. Against the guy today, neither of us leaned on the same ol drag, out and comeback passing attack. We still got to play football and it felt like football. The problem with Madden outside of those situations is that the ol' "drag, out and comeback" passing attack is money since defenders never really catch on. Then you have the ol' PA TE post route which is pretty much money vs. man.

Playing defense against guys who lean on video game tactics is hard - when you get a good game with someone who is willing to use the whole playbook the game gets fun.

[tfctillidie]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Because it's obviously not to stop the offense.

The defense in this game is so atrocious. Unless you are able to force a turnover, defense does not stop the offense. And before anyone discusses my playcalling - I am in a 32 man online CCM, and there isn't a strong defense anywhere in the entire league.

Even when I call the right play, and have defenders in position, they fail to react to the ball in the air and just stand around with their thumbs up their butts as the offense makes a play that shouldn't have been made. The buttons to actually manually defend the pass (Y and LB on X-Box 360) don't work, as even when I press them the defender I'm controlling does nothing. In zone defense, the defenders do not probably defend against receivers that come into their zone. And in man coverage I've watched my DB's literally run away from receivers...

In the running game, I lose control of my players as they are pulled into blitzing the opposite gap than I assigned them to blitz... appropriately enough, the gap that I was pulled away from is the gap that my opponent is running into. When blitzing against the run or for pass rush, even if I have a wide open path, the player that I am controlling gets pulled away from their path to get sucked into a block... Even though the blocker was away from me.

It seems that literally every game I play comes down to who has the ball last, because the defense simply doesn't stop anyone.

In my long running (14th season) 32 player CCM I've become a team who wins via running and strong defence. In our current season I'm giving up about 270 yards a game right now and just 16pts, but I'm about 6th to 8th best in those categories league wide. These totals would be 1st in the real NFL.

We play 9 minute quarters (97 combined offensive snaps in my last game) and all my league players are skilled user catchers, with no limitations on who you can user on defence or offence.

We have some basic house rules about play/route abuse but that's it.

Perhaps your league's sliders need a review because you can certainly find settings that do a decent job of allowing for strong defensive play to happen and be something you can lean on. I entirely disagree with most of the "unstoppable" stuff mentioned here. I see those things, on my sliders, get stopped quite badly and frequently. I really only have a gripe with the quick hit TE seam and the wheel/streak from trips which there's no defensive setup that will stop it without direct user intervention.

[petersondagreat]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Defense is very much alive in madden 13. It just requires adjustments which most people refuse to make its my favorite part of madden honestly, even though it can be frustrating playing against people who will abuse certain plays its that much more satisfying when you get stops. I agree with you guys on the 4th down logic its ridiculous on how much people go for it. Oh the Irony of a 49er fan complaining about defense in madden(assuming you use the niners)

[LBzrule]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Personnel dictates defense in this game and most people don't invest in the personnel required on defense based on my experience with other users in CCM.

I'm also in a 32 team league and we only have 4-5 teams that consistently play good defense and hold opponents to low scores. I'm one of them and it's because I build from within, invest XP where it fits my scheme, and always get players to fit the scheme I'm trying to run.

Don't get a bunch of 90 SPD, 60 STR, 60 BSH defensive ends and complain about not being able to stop the run. Don't run out 75-85 MCV cornerbacks and complain about getting burned in man to man.

With the right personnel, a defense can be pretty dominant in this game. The only defensive scheme that seems truly useless from my experience is the zone blitz scheme because the only blitzes that truly work with the Pass Blocking and Offsides sliders high enough are nano blitzes and speed rushes from the LE/LOLB spot. Even then, any good defense should have enough blitzes mixed in.

And this is why defense is terrible in this game. You are regulated to one style. You really cannot do all the things you want even when you have the personnel that you want. You also cannot do anything to "hide your weaknesses" scheme wise.

The pass lead renders defense a mess in this game. I just accept that defense is not good and just try my best to score 50. If I hold my opponent to 21 then although I personally do not like it, I'll take that as a moral victory. In my CC I had one game where I picked off an opponent six times and had seven sacks, yet I only won by eight points. Someone tell me how any QB that has been put on the dirt that many times and thrown that many INT's has any confidence left. But, the pass lead causes certain animations to happen. I don't know if it is slider settings or what but in my league the scores are very high. We also play on 10 qtrs though. It's not uncommon for someone to score 50 +. I've done it several times.

It's like the longer the games are the more and more the chances of crazy stuff happens. I dunno, I'm still playing but I'm pretty much done caring about 13.

[LBzrule]

Re: So what's the point of defense in this game?

Defense is very much alive in madden 13. It just requires adjustments which most people refuse to make its my favorite part of madden honestly, even though it can be frustrating playing against people who will abuse certain plays its that much more satisfying when you get stops. I agree with you guys on the 4th down logic its ridiculous on how much people go for it. Oh the Irony of a 49er fan complaining about defense in madden(assuming you use the niners)

I stopped playing lobby games because you can barely make adjustments when someone is no huddling up and down the field.