What 2k is doing wrong...

[JTheClip]

I noticed that 2k12 is completely different from 2k13 and that 2k basically built anew. They need to build upon 2k13 for 2k14. If they put more effort into improving the system instead of making an entirely new one they can create a way better experience!

[KyotoCarl]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

That's not true. They did definetly not start from scratch. It's the same engine that they've used for awhile. They have definetly been improving on and building on the released that came before 13.

[keshunleon]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

Nope!

Some of the same issues in 2K12 is still in 2K13. 2K12 was bad and 2K should've started from 2k11 but it seems like they started from 2K12.

[Vni]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

They definately don't start from scratch but I see where OP is coming from. 2K definately tryes to do too much in a one year cycle. They need to chill a little. Take a year where you focus on fixing what's broken, polish your game. 2K13 feels extremely different than 2K12, and 2K12 felt extremely different than 2K11.

You can only applaud them for trying to do that much but at the same time it's hurting their game.

[cthurt]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

They definately don't start from scratch but I see where OP is coming from. 2K definately tryes to do too much in a one year cycle. They need to chill a little. Take a year where you focus on fixing what's broken, polish your game. 2K13 feels extremely different than 2K12, and 2K12 felt extremely different than 2K11.

You can only applaud them for trying to do that much but at the same time it's hurting their game.

I agree it seems 2k is having the consumer have to learn how to play the game all over again each year, which totally threw me off this year for some reason i just couldnt get there new dribble system down to save my life, i understand it now but i literally couldnt enjoy the game until i did understand it and by that time i no longer cared.

[ffaacc03]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

They arent giving us as much options and customization as we need, they are deviating from their past committment to do so.

The best way to appeal to many distinct markets is by given them the options/customization/ability to fit the game into their very specific views.

We "need" and "want" more, not less.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

They arent giving us as much options and customization as we need, they are deviating from their past committment to do so.

I don't have a lot of experience with other sports games, but I've always thought NBA2K as one of the more customizable sports games available, given the default gamestyle modes available and the myriad team/coach/cpu/human sliders that can be adjusted. As well as the on-the-fly in-game customizations that can be done. The only problem I see with giving more options is there will always be people that think they can somehow get a videogame to mimic human behavior, and get frustrated because of it.

I'd agree more is usually better though. But I think if you're talking about online, less would probably be preferable. The more options 2K [or any dev] adds, the more difficult it is to account for the increased number of variables any customization a human might bring to give themselves an advantage over an opponent. As someone said in another thread, online's usually about wins/losses and less about sportsmanship. It's a guess, but probably 75% of the complaining that occurs in this forum is related to (1) Online play or (2) 2K's rosters. Given the wide range of sill levels for people playing the game now, it's hard to see them ever completely satisfying everyone. Anytime there's a big change over the past 2-3yrs (people having problems making layups, shooting threes, etc.) you have one group chiming that it's the perfect fix while others complain. While the majority of people probably lie somewhere in-between, and adjust to/accept what things are at any given time. Even on this board it's hard to find a consensus on how the game should be played.

[PS3FTW]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

If 2k wanted better quality in their games, the would release them once every 2 years, giving constant patches and support to the current game while having plenty of time to work on the next game.
BUT 2K just wants more money so they'll release it every year (reminds me of COD)

[ffaacc03]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

Never said 2k wasnt among the best when it comes to what I asked (I personaly think they still are the best), however, I did said that they are not focusing on it how they used to and that they have even deviated from that as they have been narrowing and cutting off that franchise staple bit by bit.

Just to give you a better picture of where I am comming from, check this quote from a post I did on another thread.

The main thing about editing or being able to edit everything is, that even if there are all kinds of objective meassurable data that depicts exactly how players and teams play, even if the formulas used to translate that behavior into the gameplay are flawless, each and everyone of us has an unique opinion on how they play, how teams are managed and coached, what matters most to the players and front offices, in essence, on how the game should simulate the NBA.

So we, as costumers, have really appreciated that 2K give us the choice to alter the game so it fits our specific perceptions. Customization/editability is not a gimmick, an alternative that has resulted from solely flawed rosters (which they have been even more since the introduction of the Insider). This, nowdays almost forgotten (by 2K), franchise pillar has become a necessity, an sports videogames industry standard, that is now asking for further extensive expandssion.

By no means does this mean that we shouldnt have better rosters, a different approach than the current one implemented by the insider or that if we get those greatly improved, we wouldnt need sliders or editing. No. The greatness of this pilar is the endless markets that it allows to be targeted, if only 2K could realize this, focus on improving it and on better informing its customers on how it works and spreadding the word on its usefullness. This served 2K in the past to distinguish itself from the competition and as of today, if improved, can very well still provide that, that edge.

Here is to hope for that.

Then again, this isnt solely related to rosters (tendencies, ratings, sigs, etc...), this relates to animations, gameplay, sliders, create a features, online options ... I would go as much as to say that it even relates to the past website features.

2K is appealing to two very distinct markets and even if they try and manuver within common ground compromises, many customers from both markets will feel partialy or totaly discontent ... as you also said, we each have a view of how the game should play and while a completely fully satisfied market isnt achievable, only by improving the options to make the game fit our unique views, one can really target both markets and significantly demenish the complaints.

Here is to hope for 2K realizing this.

[ffaacc03]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

If 2k wanted better quality in their games, the would release them once every 2 years, giving constant patches and support to the current game while having plenty of time to work on the next game.
BUT 2K just wants more money so they'll release it every year (reminds me of COD)

Nah, never heard of a sports videogame company that does this, so I cant blame 2k for that ... and by the way, Activision has two separate development teams doing COD games, not every year but every 2 years, they just alternate yearly products.

While yearly development time is usually mentioned as the main restriction for the lacking of quality improvements, it actualy isnt. It has to do more with budget, direction and dedication.

I can bet for sure that the dev company of 2K wouldnt be able to do so, not to survive fixed costs with just every 2 year sells and nor would they be able to succesfully splitt their small development team (ala Activision) to do other NBA related products ... all this without mentioning that the market they are targeting doesnt compares to that of a COD genre.

Anyways, cant blame them to try and get money, videogame companies are bussiness and they exist to make money. So here is to hope for 2K to do tons of money, but also for them to realize and provide us with both, what we need and what we want.

[RedPhazon8]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

The biggest thing they're doing wrong is releasing a new game every year, we're at a point in tech where there's no reason to do it anymore.

[25bdizz]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

2k has to focus on fixing whats wrong with the game instead of adding new things into it. Rebounding is still a problem, unstoppable animations are still a problem, online as a whole is still a problem.

[Sundown]

I noticed that 2k12 is completely different from 2k13 and that 2k basically built anew. They need to build upon 2k13 for 2k14. If they put more effort into improving the system instead of making an entirely new one they can create a way better experience!

They did build upon 2k12, and fixed so much that it plays like a different game. 2k12 was the weakest of the last three.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

2K is appealing to two very distinct markets and even if they try and manuver within common ground compromises, many customers from both markets will feel partialy or totaly discontent ...

While I don't completely disagree with your overall post or even the clip above, I'd say they have to be doing *something* right. There's frustration on either end of the spectrum, but from my brief ventures online I've noticed more people playing than in years past. Also the game continues to be a fixture on the NPD's top 10 in sales, now 9-10 months after it released. Which it's done since 2K11 if I'm not mistaken (consistently charting month after month). Most games sell a lot in their first few months then fizzle out; sales for this game have been uncommonly consistent for a sports game - it's charting even before/after the NBA season starts and finishes. I think some of the more visceral reactions on message boards to the quality of the game are in part because the game has so much content while offering a lot of customization options while adding a lot of new stuff.

NBA2K is definitely flawed and lacking in areas (like the website for leagues from what I understand), but I don't get the sentiment that it's so much worse a game overall than what's come before it - not saying that's your view of course.

[ffaacc03]

Re: What 2k is doing wrong...

...
NBA2K is definitely flawed and lacking in areas (like the website for leagues from what I understand), but I don't get the sentiment that it's so much worse a game overall than what's come before it - not saying that's your view of course.

Agreed with this part, I even thik that NBA2K13 is the most suitable to build 2k14 upon, despite its many, many flaws. It may have some specific areas where it lacks compared to previous versions, but I have loved the overall package of the past 3 versions, thinking it has improved each time.

Now, should this suffice ? No and I mean a big NO. Many of the flaws are recurrent, present time after time, version after version and in some cases, worsened. Some times it may even seem due to devs inability, oversight or lack of interest, other times is just removal of working things that were appreciated by customers and clear miss directions, this last two difficult to justify when 2K doesnt even say why.

Regarding the increase of online users, I agree, there are more. I used to be one that only played offline, but other genres brought me into online and I love the potential of it and the benefits of facing some type of human user.

In respect of sales tho, I digress. I mean, certaintly 2K deserves recognition for rapidly taking advantage of the lack of competition but we cant say it was solely due to their doings. As I said, there was no competition what so ever and that is why, there seems to be a surprising market still available for a competing company that has done close to nothing on the last decade, couldnt release a (worthy) game in three years and has yet to show us something susbstantial.

IMHO, the NBA videogame market has not increased significantly for the last 5 years or so, back when the two companies released their games they both sold over 5 mill units combined and currently, the numbers aint that much different.

Again, I hope 2k realize all of what have been discussed here and put emphasis on preventing the recurrence of bugs, glitches and miss direction.