Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

Upon learning QJB is a Game Changer, I immediately lost all hope i had for the series on next gen. I'm not sure if i was off-base here or not, but i thought Game Changers were sim-minded gamers aiming to help improve the accuracy and realism of the game? Watching his videos, I finally realised how hopeless this situation truly is before this *** finished speaking his first insanely irritating sentence.

No, every GC is not SIM minded. Many are tourney and online ranked players who resist any change to Madden that involves a loss of user control. You can thank them for throw a wr open. It allows them to control the qb and wr at the same time and that's what's important to them, not whether it plays out realistically.

As long as the dev team tries to give them what they want we will continue to get the same madden year. These devs are no different than past ones. Sell the newest features as bringing realism we've never seen while implementing in a way that doesn't cost any user control.

Look at the way features are implemented, listen to the devs answers to getting bad snaps or penalties, feel the way the game is paced with minimal presentation and cut scenes. The game is a hybrid, a one size fits all and when SIM interferes with control its not happening.

That's just the problem with the development philosophy. The truth is bad programming has set the game back as well. It's got freezing issues, invisible players, players playing on the wrong team, user controlled players bite on jukes without user input, the swat button has a habit of becoming an int button. The list is long and new ones pop up every year.

The situation does feel hopeless. I gave up after Madden 11. It'll take talented developers cleaning out the bugs as a true change in philosophy that doesn't have user control trumping every else every time. I have put my hopes in the license ending this year because I think it's better odds than EA truly fixing this game.

[ghettogeeksta]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

I see that horrid robotic looking catching animation is still in the game and any body else noticing the tackle animations not triggering till the defender's chest touches the ball carrier? Defenders never reach their arms out in an attempt to tackle a ball carrier.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

Uhh... Just because 2k8 came out 3 years after 2k5 doesn't mean they took all those years developing it... Do you really believe they took 3 cycles on that game?... If they had taken that much time there would have been WAY more depth than there was. Starting with multiple seasons... You are just reaching now...

Edit: Even if it was a port it was at least a port of a very good game. A port of Madden is bad because the game is broken in so many ways. It's not even close.

So should we just not have a football game at all for a few years until the license ends or Madden gets theirs right? IF the license ended today it would be 2015 or later before another company could come close to having a decent product.

It takes 3-4 dev cycles realistically to make a great game from scratch, like a gta or halo, I don't expect it to take them 5 years but can't we at least let them have two dev cycles to make a decent product and see if they deliver or not?

You can blame EA as much as you like for the last 9 years, but you can't blame Cam and Rex and these guys right now, they're taking responsibility for where the game is right now but they had nothing to do with it.

It really is sad that people are being so harsh on these guys, let them have just a little bit of time to prove themselves before you write them off. People want to sit and bash these guys without giving them a chance to even prove what they're trying to do. I wouldn't blame them if they stopped coming to the forums anymore. Nobody wants to give constructive criticism to explain what you're wanting. It's all about the past 9 years, these guys are past that and understand the failures, but they have to move on. So until the community gets that it will always be a ea bashing on here and these guys aren't going to listen to this garbage anymore. Why should they? We all know the problems from the past, they're going after the solutions, judge them for their execution of what they're producing, not what other people didn't in the past.

Maybe they won't deliver like we think they will but until they don't why are we acting like its their fault for where the game is right now? We absolutely have to hold them accountable for the errors of Madden 25 next gen, but what happened before they arrived at EA is completely irrelevant. They should be judged for what they do or haven't done not what those before them did.

Are Bears fans blaming Marc Trestman for what Lovie Smith did? Did Patriots fans blame Bill Belichek for Pete Carroll's failures? What about John Harbaugh was he held accountable for what Rex Ryan did?

Of course not, so why do we hold these guys accountable for what guys before them did?

Pointing out player model errors and static sidelines in m25 next gen is one thing, but saying the game is and always will be what it's been in the past is asinine. The game will be what Rex and Cam put into it, that is what we should be judging them on, not what happened 7 years ago.

[jjdogjjdog5162]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

I understand where JP is coming from because not too long ago (about 3 weeks ago) I was upset with what I was seeing to. However, you guys can't lie, that true step for the ball carrier is pretty sick. That is only one example of the realism they are striving for (I'll elaborate more on why I believe they are striving for it in a bit). Plus I have more of an understanding on why they couldn't just fix this past train wreck of a game in an instant.

Now about EA's intentions for the future. I listened to two interviews that really had me thinking. The interview on Gamme Changers Radio with Rex and the show after that from Last Tuesday. Sim even said that EA has some things in store for next year and the year after that will basically knock everyone's socks off. I don't ever recall that guy as one who blows smoke so I'm gonna listen to someone with those credentials (a guy who actually talks to the devs and has heard personally what is in store for the future).

Been hearing that for the last oh, i dont know, whole current gen cycle. Then when the big sock knocking feature fails to deliever, we are told to wait till next year when they can REALLY focus on it and work the bugs out of it. Then after that year, it usually dissapears, only to return a few years later renamed something else and rehyped. That formula is getting old.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

No, every GC is not SIM minded. Many are tourney and online ranked players who resist any change to Madden that involves a loss of user control. You can thank them for throw a wr open. It allows them to control the qb and wr at the same time and that's what's important to them, not whether it plays out realistically.

As long as the dev team tries to give them what they want we will continue to get the same madden year. These devs are no different than past ones. Sell the newest features as bringing realism we've never seen while implementing in a way that doesn't cost any user control.

Look at the way features are implemented, listen to the devs answers to getting bad snaps or penalties, feel the way the game is paced with minimal presentation and cut scenes. The game is a hybrid, a one size fits all and when SIM interferes with control its not happening.

That's just the problem with the development philosophy. The truth is bad programming has set the game back as well. It's got freezing issues, invisible players, players playing on the wrong team, user controlled players bite on jukes without user input, the swat button has a habit of becoming an int button. The list is long and new ones pop up every year.

The situation does feel hopeless. I gave up after Madden 11. It'll take talented developers cleaning out the bugs as a true change in philosophy that doesn't have user control trumping every else every time. I have put my hopes in the license ending this year because I think it's better odds than EA truly fixing this game.

The game is going to be sim minded, even though Clint said that, he also said they're going to work on getting bad snaps in the game. What these guys are trying to do is a complete transformation of what Madden is about. There's an extremely high risk involved but they want sim and are willing to take it. The things they have in mind will have casual gamers furious.

[bc21045]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

So should we just not have a football game at all for a few years until the license ends or Madden gets theirs right? IF the license ended today it would be 2015 or later before another company could come close to having a decent product.

It takes 3-4 dev cycles realistically to make a great game from scratch, like a gta or halo, I don't expect it to take them 5 years but can't we at least let them have two dev cycles to make a decent product and see if they deliver or not?

You can blame EA as much as you like for the last 9 years, but you can't blame Cam and Rex and these guys right now, they're taking responsibility for where the game is right now but they had nothing to do with it.

It really is sad that people are being so harsh on these guys, let them have just a little bit of time to prove themselves before you write them off. People want to sit and bash these guys without giving them a chance to even prove what they're trying to do. I wouldn't blame them if they stopped coming to the forums anymore. Nobody wants to give constructive criticism to explain what you're wanting. It's all about the past 9 years, these guys are past that and understand the failures, but they have to move on. So until the community gets that it will always be a ea bashing on here and these guys aren't going to listen to this garbage anymore. Why should they? We all know the problems from the past, they're going after the solutions, judge them for their execution of what they're producing, not what other people didn't in the past.

Maybe they won't deliver like we think they will but until they don't why are we acting like its their fault for where the game is right now? We absolutely have to hold them accountable for the errors of Madden 25 next gen, but what happened before they arrived at EA is completely irrelevant. They should be judged for what they do or haven't done not what those before them did.

Are Bears fans blaming Marc Trestman for what Lovie Smith did? Did Patriots fans blame Bill Belichek for Pete Carroll's failures? What about John Harbaugh was he held accountable for what Rex Ryan did?

Of course not, so why do we hold these guys accountable for what guys before them did?

Pointing out player model errors and static sidelines in m25 next gen is one thing, but saying the game is and always will be what it's been in the past is asinine. The game will be what Rex and Cam put into it, that is what we should be judging them on, not what happened 7 years ago.

Did EA replace the entire dev team or just the leads? A new direction is all well and good but if you can't execute it it doesn't matter.

[TheBuddyHobbs]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

So should we just not have a football game at all for a few years until the license ends or Madden gets theirs right? IF the license ended today it would be 2015 or later before another company could come close to having a decent product.

It takes 3-4 dev cycles realistically to make a great game from scratch, like a gta or halo, I don't expect it to take them 5 years but can't we at least let them have two dev cycles to make a decent product and see if they deliver or not?

You can blame EA as much as you like for the last 9 years, but you can't blame Cam and Rex and these guys right now, they're taking responsibility for where the game is right now but they had nothing to do with it.

It really is sad that people are being so harsh on these guys, let them have just a little bit of time to prove themselves before you write them off. People want to sit and bash these guys without giving them a chance to even prove what they're trying to do. I wouldn't blame them if they stopped coming to the forums anymore. Nobody wants to give constructive criticism to explain what you're wanting. It's all about the past 9 years, these guys are past that and understand the failures, but they have to move on. So until the community gets that it will always be a ea bashing on here and these guys aren't going to listen to this garbage anymore. Why should they? We all know the problems from the past, they're going after the solutions, judge them for their execution of what they're producing, not what other people didn't in the past.

Maybe they won't deliver like we think they will but until they don't why are we acting like its their fault for where the game is right now? We absolutely have to hold them accountable for the errors of Madden 25 next gen, but what happened before they arrived at EA is completely irrelevant. They should be judged for what they do or haven't done not what those before them did.

Are Bears fans blaming Marc Trestman for what Lovie Smith did? Did Patriots fans blame Bill Belichek for Pete Carroll's failures? What about John Harbaugh was he held accountable for what Rex Ryan did?

Of course not, so why do we hold these guys accountable for what guys before them did?

Pointing out player model errors and static sidelines in m25 next gen is one thing, but saying the game is and always will be what it's been in the past is asinine. The game will be what Rex and Cam put into it, that is what we should be judging them on, not what happened 7 years ago.

Where in my reply to did I even come close to saying we should wait a few years to have a football game? What are you even talking about?...

NBA 2K next-gen built their game from the ground up. At most they were working on it for 2 years. Madden had the same amount of time as they did to work on their next-gen title. Because of this I won't give them a pass on the first game of next-gen. However, I'm still waiting to see what they do in Madden 15. If it's not even close and we still have far too many legacy issues still in the game then you bet I'm going to give up on this team too.

[tnixen]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

I think it's safe to say "Living Worlds" should be renamed to "Boring Worlds"

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

Where in my reply to did I even come close to saying we should wait a few years to have a football game? What are you even talking about?...

NBA 2K next-gen built their game from the ground up. At most they were working on it for 2 years. Madden had the same amount of time as they did to work on their next-gen title. Because of this I won't give them a pass on the first game of next-gen. However, I'm still waiting to see what they do in Madden 15. If it's not even close and we still have far too many legacy issues still in the game then you bet I'm going to give up on this team too.

NBA 2k next gen is very close to a port of current gen, watch the gameplay videos, the game looks like cg with much better graphics.

[TheBuddyHobbs]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

The game is going to be sim minded, even though Clint said that, he also said they're going to work on getting bad snaps in the game. What these guys are trying to do is a complete transformation of what Madden is about. There's an extremely high risk involved but they want sim and are willing to take it. The things they have in mind will have casual gamers furious.

Funny, Rex said they won't have bad snaps in the game because it would take the game out of the tournament players hands. The only way bad snaps make their way into the game is if they figure out a way to give the user a chance to stop it. That isn't realistic and definitely isn't simulation.

[bc21045]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

NBA 2k next gen is very close to a port of current gen, watch the gameplay videos, the game looks like cg with much better graphics.

... and improved player AI, and "true step" and player emotion in game, and improved coaching AI, and an overhauled mycareer mode and an overhauled association mode...

[TheBuddyHobbs]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

NBA 2k next gen is very close to a port of current gen, watch the gameplay videos, the game looks like cg with much better graphics.

They have solid gameplay. Madden isn't even close to solid. You can bring up other games having ports all you want. Fact is other games can do that because they do have a solid foundation built. Madden is broken.

Besides they said they built it from the ground up. I believe them because they actually have a good reputation. I don't remember them lying or misleading like EA has with Madden.

[jjdogjjdog5162]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

NBA 2k next gen is very close to a port of current gen, watch the gameplay videos, the game looks like cg with much better graphics.

What the heck are you talking about? 2k built the next gen NBA game from scratch. Its been said numerous time.

[ghettogeeksta]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

... and improved player AI, and "true step" and player emotion in game, and improved coaching AI, and an overhauled mycareer mode and an overhauled association mode...

And don't forget they eliminated foot-sliding.

[rootofalleli]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next Gen Video - IGNITE Technology & Next-Gen Visuals (QJB)

The game will be what Rex and Cam put into it, that is what we should be judging them on, not what happened 7 years ago.

I wish. It'll be what EA puts into it. These guys are fighting with (at least) one hand tied behind their backs. Marketing still has its way with all these features, and there still isn't enough investment to improve all areas of the game each year. In past years EA has flat out ignored certain modes (like franchise) because they didn't have the "time."

Really though they didn't want to spend, and that hasn't changed. Yes, sometimes it hurts a project to have too many people. But this game has SO many problems. Someone needs to figure out why plays run in 4 seconds in SuperSim, why the wind arrow is fail, why the sim stats are off, why auto subs fail, why punted balls bounce explosively, etc. Some of these problems could be fixed without people tripping over each other in the office if EA cared.

That's not even touching all the additions to the game that people would like, or the subtractions we'd like to see undone. Why has no one added back in real injury designations or formation sub menus, for example? Because having enough manpower to add sim features isn't a priority. Do you think Cam & Rex will use their vast personal fortunes to hire more good people to tune existing features, restore options we used to have, and do good QA work on this game?