Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

Far be it for me to try to excuse or defend what Tiburon does because ultimately, they're the ones to blame for whatever issues Madden has. That said, I don't really see how in this instance they can be faulted for not prioritizing movement for players, if it's true that they actually added it but had to remove it due to programming issues. I give that claim some credence due to the fact that this isn't the first time a Madden team has stated this type of issue, meaning adding one thing, which unexpectedly effects something else. Specifically with regard to player movement, which I think Ian mentioned some issues with trying to add locomotion to defenders.

If it was another developer, I would agree with you. I hate hearing how madden can't get 22 players to have true step due to developing issues because of this games history. This is the game that had to use 2d sprites because 3d player models weren't possible until game day did it. The game that said interactive sidelines weren't possible all last gen even All Pro Football had it in its one and only attempt. Now with true step, it can't work. However FIFA seems to have it working fine.

When I hear it couldn't be done from the Madden team I can't help but wonder if it could've worked in some other game. It wouldn't be the first time that was the case.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

You seem to be well versed and have a good understanding on programming. What is your (or anyone else's) educated take on FIFA vs Madden locomotion system? Soccer has 22 players on the field simultaneously and so does football. The physical interaction obviously differ between soccer and football. Football has physical contact on every single play. But even during Madden sequences where contact have not been made and are not made, sliding is still present. I have yet to see any players in FIFA slide into position. All FIFA players seem to realistically plant their foot with every move.

Anyone have a reasonable educated guess on why FIFA apparently has unadvertised true step applied to all 22 players and Madden does not.

Side Note: Unless I'm mistaken, the Ignite engine is suppose to allow EA sports division to extract and "share" elements from one sport to another. Wondering what challenges are preventing the transfer of locomotion/foot plant from FIFA to Madden.

In my layman's opinion it's partly specific issues with how Madden is fundamentally designed and partly Tiburon intentionally not doing things other games have done in Madden.

To the first part, if you read back at old threads when OS members like LBz, Bezo, PGaither, AJ, etc were going down to Tiburon for Community Days, they mention quite a bit about finding out/being told why x couldn't be easily done in Madden, unlike in other games. Also Ian touches on it quite a bit in his post Tiburon interviews. A general theme that seems to come up is Madden is a mass/mess of code with all kinds of things, linked to other things, so doing some of the seemingly simplest things, ie scaling the size of the actual football, can be like doing brain surgery for Madden. For example, those CD guys had been asking about things like tiered play calling and route based passing for years but that's difficult because in Madden the olne/dline are programmed together as a unit, as well as seemingly the receiver/defender/ball. For quite awhile there were even sliders and settings Tiburon didn't want Users accessing in Madden because they claimed they could "break" the game.

So considering that, in addition to the way we can often see a pursuing defender 10-20 yards away from a play still reacting to a ball carrier's evasive moves, sometimes multiple defenders mirroring each others reactions and the dreaded "Conga line" pursuit, it's likely defenders and ball carriers movements are all somehow linked in Madden's "unique" design.

To the second part, I don't think much, if any, of that applies to things outside of game play coding/design, considering areas like presentation, commentary, and career modes are separate teams and have been ripped out, rebuilt, ripped out, rebuilt again, seemingly numerous times. So when I see FIFA's living World, FIFA's multiple commentary teams, HC09's team management, NCAA basketball 10's presentation, etc, more fleshed out than what's currently in Madden, I see those areas as being intentionally designed not to match those other games. No way I believe they couldn't have ripped out Franchise mode from M12 and completely replaced it with a better version of HC09, instead of CCM/CFM. However they decided CCM/CFM was the way they wanted to go, that's not legacy coding issues, imo, that's choosing to offer something else other than what's already been/being done.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

If it was another developer, I would agree with you. I hate hearing how madden can't get 22 players to have true step due to printing issues because of this games history. This is the game that had to use 2d sprites because 3d player models weren't possible until game day did it. The game that said interactive sidelines weren't possible all last gen even All Pro Football had it in its one and only attempt. Now with true step, it can't work. However FIFA seems to have it working fine.

When I hear it couldn't be done from the Madden team I can't help but wonder if it could've worked in some other game. It wouldn't be the first time that was the case.

I'm right there with you on that, Tiburon has proven they will tell a flat out lie in a heartbeat, especially in reference to something they can't/won't do and labeling it as an issue with video games in general, not the way Tiburon makes video game. That's why I keep saying I see this case, about all-22 player movement, differently because, according to that post from JPDavis, Clint is specifically blaming Madden frame rate issues, not some external excuse. That's taking ownership, imo and the key part for me is that they added it early on but claim they couldn't get it right. I remember Ian showing us all manner of prerelease stuff, much of which didn't seem to pan out that way in-game, we never got an explanation of why that was but we know the stuff existed, he showed us. Also there are many tales from CD guys about being shown stuff at Tiburon which seemingly never made it into the game, I presume there is some reason for this theme.

Long story short, I understand the opinion that this all-22 player stuff is just another bs excuse, I just don't share that opinion in this case. It's all moot anyway because either they get it addressed or they don't, that's all that matters, I'm just willing to give them until next year in lieu of the seeming candor and straight talk from these guys.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream Starts at 4:30 PM EST, Watch it Here

Alright so I have a question. In MLB the show there is a similar system where you tell your players what to train. Now why isn't that bashed or not liked like madden? Is it because there are no points involved?

You cannot be serious? The two systems share one similarity, and that is they are progression systems. In MLB THE SHOW, I'm not able to rack up points and make an F Potential SS into Derek Jeter. I can tell them what I want them to focus on in practice, which allows me to indirectly mold a player to fit my vision, but I can't just turn him into a godly player by racking up base hits, steals and putouts.

In Madden, as an above poster described, I could take a scrambling QB, rack up rushing yards and rushing TDs, and use the experience from that to make him a better passer. Madden's progression system also doesn't allow for backups to progress. Instead what we end up with is All-NFL starters on every team with terrible depth, except the User whom has players with almost 10k more XP points, meaning he has even better starters as well as better depth.

Now lets view that as a bug, or design flaw and look at the system even more meta. Ratings in Madden equal a players ability. A player does not break out unless they have the ability to do so, or the system around them benefits them more than the previous system. In Madden, we expect guys without the ability to break out, to get better because the user forced them to breakout by constantly feeding their stat line. This is even easier to do because of the lack of drops, terrible coverage, robo-accurate quarterbacks, and lack of fatigue. Meaning bad players can play well above their ratings, which creates a snowball effect where playing above your ratings means your ratings should be higher, which means the user can do even better with the player, leading him to play above his ratings even more, leading to further progression.

[DNMHIII]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream Starts at 4:30 PM EST, Watch it Here

I'd love to see the bluff blitz feature taken one step further and actually automatically position the player in a blitz look on the field once that action has been initiated and automatically changing his posture to a blitz look at the same time and then they drop back into their assignment. The feature the way it is now does nothing to a pre-snap read.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream Starts at 4:30 PM EST, Watch it Here

I'd love to see the bluff blitz feature taken one step further and actually automatically position the player in a blitz look on the field once that action has been initiated and automatically changing his posture to a blitz look at the same time and then they drop back into their assignment. The feature the way it is now does nothing to a pre-snap read.

I agree, what you're describing seems like what "show blitz" should be in Madden instead of a how it is now, which basically seems like stacking the box, not showing bltiz, imo. I'm think "bluff blitz" is fine and has merit but having both would be better. Good point and someone should tweet that little nuance to the devs.

[CT Pitbull]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

I saw a lot of things I liked in this live stream. Still many things I didn't but its still encouraging. I really like the hot route animation "delay" so people cant rip through 30 hot routes before the snap. I would like to see the animations for the checks at the line be slowed down a bit too. When Peyton was signaling to the wr it almost looked like it was in fast forward. Maybe it will change if you play a slower speed in game.


Player models look better but they still are a little too robotic. But they are improving. I saw some really nice tackles that ive never seen before as well.


Great lighting the guys were right graphics were much improved but living worlds is still sooo disappointing. A "live" sideline would be so sweet to have.

[reyes the roof]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream Starts at 4:30 PM EST, Watch it Here

Alright so I have a question. In MLB the show there is a similar system where you tell your players what to train. Now why isn't that bashed or not liked like madden? Is it because there are no points involved?

The Show's progression isn't stat based like Madden. I could throw 6 WR screens per game to a WR with an XP goal of 90 catches and he'll turn in to a superstar, also you could have an offensive lineman with a goal of your team throwing for 4000 yards, but if you have a run heavy offense, he will miss his goals even if he allowed no sacks all year.

[DNMHIII]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream Starts at 4:30 PM EST, Watch it Here

I agree, what you're describing seems like what "show blitz" should be in Madden instead of a how it is now, which basically seems like stacking the box, not showing bltiz, imo. I'm think "bluff blitz" is fine and has merit but having both would be better. Good point and someone should tweet that little nuance to the devs.

Maybe JP could do it if he has time because I have no idea who to send it to. I think adding little enhancements to features like this would go a long way with the realism of how the game looks. Right now the way the feature is they just take a few steps forward and then drop into zone because you sure wouldn't do it for man coverage.

Actually a bluff blitz for both man and zone would be cool because you could also bluff blitz a safety but man him up on a TE or RB and they wouldn't blitz in they'd just play man but on Zone they'd take those few steps up and then drop.

[DNMHIII]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream Starts at 4:30 PM EST, Watch it Here

Post play is looking so much better and gone is the lost cattle feel with players running into each other and sprinting towards the locker room. Its small things like that that I appreciate them fixing after all these years.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

I saw a lot of things I liked in this live stream. Still many things I didn't but its still encouraging. I really like the hot route animation "delay" so people cant rip through 30 hot routes before the snap. I would like to see the animations for the checks at the line be slowed down a bit too. When Peyton was signaling to the wr it almost looked like it was in fast forward. Maybe it will change if you play a slower speed in game.


Player models look better but they still are a little too robotic. But they are improving. I saw some really nice tackles that ive never seen before as well.


Great lighting the guys were right graphics were much improved but living worlds is still sooo disappointing. A "live" sideline would be so sweet to have.

There was discussion about communicating hot routes last year or the year before, where Bezo was pretty much stating the "signaling" doesn't really take that much time in real life. Also in the stream the devs were saying they actually consulted NFL QBs about it, so considering they acknowledge the amount of preplay adjustments were ridiculous, they seem to have also added in an increased chance of false start on the offense when doing too much adjusting, it's a good start.

I think the next step should be taking away the ability to bring up the playart on All Pro and All Madden by default and add in an increased chance for miscommunication/players running a different route than what the QB adjusted to, for less AWR players and the more preplay adjustments made. In real life QBs have no idea for certain what any other player is going to do, they only know what they should do based on the play call/ audible/adjustment. So since offensive Users are essentially the QBs presnap at the LOS, stop giving them the ability to be certain of the other players assignments/adjustments by bringing up the playart. Leave on by default on lower settings as a teaching tool but have it off by default and an option for All Pro/All Madden. That way it's off by default for online ranked and optional for league Commissioners/offline Users.

[Cowboy008]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

I just thought of another question and if someone can answer it that would be great. Will the CPU also bluff a blitz or is that only going to be for human controlled teams?

[reyes the roof]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

There was discussion about communicating hot routes last year or the year before, where Bezo was pretty much stating the "signaling" doesn't really take that much time in real life. Also in the stream the devs were saying they actually consulted NFL QBs about it, so considering they acknowledge the amount of preplay adjustments were ridiculous, they seem to have also added in an increased chance of false start on the offense when doing too much adjusting, it's a good start.

I think the next step should be taking away the ability to bring up the playart on All Pro and All Madden by default and add in an increased chance for miscommunication/players running a different route than what the QB adjusted to, for less AWR players and the more preplay adjustments made. In real life QBs have no idea for certain what any other player is going to do, they only know what they should do based on the play call/ audible/adjustment. So since offensive Users are essentially the QBs presnap at the LOS, stop giving them the ability to be certain of the other players assignments/adjustments by bringing up the playart. Leave on by default on lower settings as a teaching tool but have it off by default and an option for All Pro/All Madden. That way it's off by default for online ranked and optional for league Commissioners/offline Users.

That's an awesome idea, the only problem is that the QBs tend to throw the ball where the receiver is, rather than where he is supposed to be. It could still lead to miscommunications if the WR runs the wrong route, but I'd like to see the QB throw to a spot where the WR is nowhere near when there is a miscommunication. For instance, WR is supposed to run a dig, but instead runs a go route and never breaks off, and the QB throws right to a defender with no WR near him

[FBall Life]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

I like that you have to wait for the QB to finish the audible animation before calling another one. HOWEVER, the animations they have are way way way too quick and robotic. It doesn't look like a natural movement. He stands, points, then gets back under center in an incredibly herky-jerky kinda way. That other football game had the QB naturally pointing and signaling. The QB would even, from time to time, walk away from center to communicate with the wide out.

[jerwoods]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

we also need team songs and chats redone for ps4

so like if u play @ lamberu u hear go pack go
or if u play @ Seattle the joystick always moves