Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

[Jr.]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

I didn't see any warping/suction tackles in the video or in the stream from last week, which is my main concern with this mechanic. I've always personally felt that tackling was too easy in 1 on 1 situations, unless the ball carrier is running full speed (which seems to give them more agility, oxymoronically).

I think the issue is that people just try to run full speed into the ball carrier, which rarely happens in real life. Defenders break down and square themselves up in order to wrap up. The CPU started doing this in Madden a couple of years ago, I believe. The strafe button was huge in tackling, but I don't know how many people used it. This mechanic seems to be giving leeway for those who just want to sprint into the ball carrier without worrying about missing the tackle, which shouldn't be the case.

I just hope this doesn't take away a ball carrier's ability to make someone miss without the defender screwing up.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

And to that I say, so what? I want a football sim and realistic gameplay. I want to play against people and let the deciding factor be our knowledge of the game of football and not decided by who's better on the sticks. Yes, I want to control my team but if a mechanic is there to make sure I don't dive at thin air then I'm all for it. My reactions aren't as good as they were when I was in my teens and twenties but I still wanna play a good game of football. What sports game out there doesn't have these types of helper mechanics? And just like in those games, you can turn off the tackle cone and all the helpers if you so desire. Personally, I'd rather not whiff on my tackles.

Pretty much how I see it, no NFL defender that's within a reasonable proximity to the ball carrier is going to dive the opposite way, for instance. That's an extreme but it's a similar point they made in the stream when explaining the tackle cone. The closet thing I can think to relate it to is doing a layup or dunk in a basketball video game by pressing the shot button when close enough to the goal/hoop.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

We have heat-seeker, OP shoestring tackles, tackle cone, agressive & conservative tackle buttons and now match tackling?

I personally see trucking was OP in 25 bc the combinatin of heat-seeker and precision truck allowed both players to intensely magnetize and as a result T-Off on eachother!.

I miss the days of juking - M25 was basically big hits vs big trucks. I dig the new tackle buttons and steeeing assists albeit defenders need to be vulnerable to fakeouts and have their momentum take them out.

The back juke is there and you can juke decently left to right on special teams but through the tackle box?

These tacklers are becoming heat-seeking missiles universally and that kills authenticity; I welcome tackle errors within context and not to silly extremes like 45º dives the wrong way but a missed open field tackle due to a fakeout or sudden change direction is welcomed.

Why not just program better pursuit paths for defenders? Why do I need to turn on Heat-Seeker to assist me? I should be able to suffice on my own so long as the ball-carrier was in my range but to attempt a tackle in close range only to go 45º the wrong way due to no fakeout but poor programming under the hood.

Player Intelligence can replace these layers of assists, so can a more grounded and stabilized run game that does not cause defenders to dive at air due to the slightest herk or jerk in movements.

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[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

Pretty much how I see it, no NFL defender that's within a reasonable proximity to the ball carrier is going to dive the opposite way, for instance. That's an extreme but it's a similar point they made in the stream when explaining the tackle cone. The closet thing I can think to relate it to is doing a layup or dunk in a basketball video game by pressing the shot button when close enough to the goal/hoop.

Agree. At some point, for the sake of "Sim"/"Realism" or whatever you want to call it, the User needs some help/guidance for certain things.

People will argue this issue on both sides and that's fine.

For me one area, where I very rarely see anyone chiming in (even pro user control people), is the passing.
The huge, IMO, area of football that begs to be overhauled to give the user more control, is the passing.
Fever had a nice system with Read and Lead and was pretty close and just needed some tweaking to get it dialed in.

Year after year people are ok with the hit X for X system.
Not saying replace it but, like Fever, give us the option to use a "throw anywhere" system,

This is coming from someone who is well past the "stick skill" mentality and prefer if Madden had a real coach mode. However in my offline games I sometimes like to use more control.
just saying it's 2014 and we basically are using the same core passing system since forever.
Madden on AppleIIe had a throw anywhere system that I loved! Albeit dated by todays standards lol
Anyways..just saying OPTIONS.

Ok.. my yearly mini rant about the same ole same ole passing system is completed for another year.
Back to tackling...

[rtkiii]

I'll have to wait and see...to me this sounds like we are going backwards. I thought the ignite technology was designed to make the tackles more random and realistic...now we are going back to animated tackles? I could be mis-reading but I feel this is a step backward in the realism category.

[TheBleedingRed21]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

The cone has three parts to it. I assume if it uses an animation depending what part of the "cone" the ball carrier is in. I think this would solve any warping issues and make for a nice animation plus eliminating the users who try to abuse the ai and swerve.

Also it seems that if you are farther away, it dives like it used to so you can't make a tackle from a far distance without diving thus I assume eliminates warping.

Also on Jrs point, I think the ball carrier always had the ability to avoid tackles pretty easily. With the jukes, spins, trucking not requiring you to really slow down, made this too easy to avoid 1 on 1 tackles especially on CPU. I think could make people juke right as someone goes for a tackle and seeing more missed tackles but slowing the ball carrier since he made contact instead of how it is now and they don't break stride.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

Agree. At some point, for the sake of "Sim"/"Realism" or whatever you want to call it, the User needs some help/guidance for certain things.

People will argue this issue on both sides and that's fine.

For me one area, where I very rarely see anyone chiming in (even pro user control people), is the passing.
The huge, IMO, area of football that begs to be overhauled to give the user more control, is the passing.
Fever had a nice system with Read and Lead and was pretty close and just needed some tweaking to get it dialed in.

Year after year people are ok with the hit X for X system.
Not saying replace it but, like Fever, give us the option to use a "throw anywhere" system,

This is coming from someone who is well past the "stick skill" mentality and prefer if Madden had a real coach mode. However in my offline games I sometimes like to use more control.
just saying it's 2014 and we basically are using the same core passing system since forever.
Madden on AppleIIe had a throw anywhere system that I loved! Albeit dated by todays standards lol
Anyways..just saying OPTIONS.

Ok.. my yearly mini rant about the same ole same ole passing system is completed for another year.
Back to tackling...

I would love this and really want them to have an organic physics system for the ball. I want to see balls thrown high when the qb throws off his back foot, passes sailing low and wide when on the run, etc. Everything hits either the defender or receiver currently. It has not advanced much at all.

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[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

I would love this and really want them to have an organic physics system for the ball. I want to see balls thrown high when the qb throws off his back foot, passes sailing low and wide when on the run, etc. Everything hits either the defender or receiver currently. It has not advanced much at all.

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I have high hopes for Madden15. The accuracy and errant passes seem a lot better. As long as they keep improving I'll be happy. . But I still want more options in the passing game.
Reason I still have Fever.

[johnnyg713]

I have to give them credit for the approach they took to make tackling better. If you asked me what I think should be worked on, tackling mechanics would be very far down on the list. To be honest I never had a problem with the way tackling was done but now that they have laid out the issues many people have and the improvements made, I am impressed with how they see user control. If anything, this makes me excited to see what they do in the future with things like passing and catching.

[Khanchus]

tackling.....

my big riff (i seen someone state this on another topic) is the way the lead up to the tackle sometimes and some of the animations are just not real (like the spear shoulder tackle im seeing in all these videos) that one just urks me....

[JMUfootball]

When tackling is a binary process, the physics are always going to be all wrong. I agree that this sounds like a "true step" in the wrong direction. A ball carrier should have an "always on" latent attribute for balance, and tackles/impacts with various parts of his body should cause that attribute to deteriorate dynamically until a critical point, at which point the carrier falls.

The problem with madden has always been that tackles are triggered depending on approach angle and one or two attributes of the defender. If the criterion match, tackle animation is triggered. Not the right way to design physics based gameplay in 2014 (!)

This development seems like more of the same, except now trigger thresholds based on angle are lowered. That's great, but canned tackles are still canned tackles...

[SamoanSteelerFromAus]

Im in the camp of "stick skills" should be a factor like it has in the last few maddens. The only tackles i really miss in madden 25 are the ones that im running full speed holding the sprint trigger and diving or hit sticking at the wrong angle. Im fine with that, i don't get angry at the game for that.
In football, those are the tackles that are mostly whiffed on. Thats why there is a strafe button people, its so you can slow and break down like they do in real life.
The element of how well you use the controller should remain cause thats what a video game is, if they keep moving away from that than you might as well play virtual chess. Warp tackles ruin the realism for this game, if you whiff on tackles all the time then practice getting better at it or switch away from the ball carrier at let the CPU do it for you.
I've loved defense more than any other part of football since i started playing football games, i even play linebacker in real life, so i don't want the challenge(and in my opinion-realism) taken out of this game.

The reason i love defense is the difficulty of getting to the ball carrier and getting into position to make a tackle, but all that makes a tackle faaaaar more satisfying when you do make it and i don't think that should be tampered with cause casual gamers have difficulty or people don't wanna rely on their "stick skills".

To me, its a backwards step. I play football games for what happens on the field, not so i can be an owner and change the prices on fries or be a head coach and call nothing but plays and let it sim. There needs to be the balance between the right call you make pre play and how well you user control your defender/offender on the sticks. This, in my opinion is dissolving that balance and it is counter productive to the direction they were taking with the physics engine. Once again, i think the casual gamer is getting the nod here and my lack of faith in EA implementing new things has me worried that this will effect the game negatively in the first installment of this feature...

Also, new animations for tackling and break tackling are desperately needed..

[bukktown]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

"2. Inability for users to understand direction and spatial distances between defender and ball carrier, and how that affected tackling"

I read that as "We're going to take away dynamic gameplay and make more canned animation sequences to make up for the fact that the core fanbase of Madden aren't very good on the sticks."

I only need to think back to playing online and controlling the safety on a swing pass to the flat. I had no LB help as I was blitzing and the CB was blocked by the WR, so it was just me and the RB. He was running to the sideline so I was also taking an angle and all of a sudden the RB did a 140 degree turn and was at the middle of the field while I was still heading toward the sideline.

#dynamicgameplay

[TheBleedingRed21]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

Maybe I'm in the minority but stick skills ruin the game in some regard.

Most of the issues that are brought up that the AI won't do are countered by developers that the user has to initate that aspect. When in reality, our leagues that use a no switch rule are SOL because we want the CPU to bat more balls and do stuff that they claim the user can do.

A simulation should feature AI that takes advantage of these sim aspects and not rely on the user switching and doing the action.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Blog & Screenshots - Tackling Mechanic

I'm kind of surprised by the negative responses about the new tackling mechanic, considering most of the big plays in Madden come from the bs that defenders couldn't trigger a tackle in space at all angles. In real life the defender can at least reach out to grab a ball carrier to slow them down but not in Madden. Their arms were useless without a tackle animation, there was no reach ability. Maybe next year they'll actually add a reach tackle mechanic for when the defender is in space/unblocked for you guys that want full User control but I'm looking forward to trying this mechanic in the meantime.

These kind of big plays were happening in older Maddens, partly because of the unrealistic movement the ball carrier could do, which they addressed somewhat with "true step" and the other part was due to defenders not being able to engage due to poor angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AebfN-PysXQ&list=UU0481WLx0aAQM9WDXzvRmuA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tlSWLkX3AU&list=UU0481WLx0aAQM9WDXzvRmuA

Look at that nonsense, especially #37 Reed Doughty who comes flying into the screen but can't trigger any kind of tackle attempt in the first video and Landry in the second should have clearly been able to do something besides letting the ball carrier run by, then give chase. This was also at least part of the reason the "Conga line" would occur, ball carriers would run right by defenders with poor angles and they would all fall behind them.