Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

[JMD]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

Kinda sounds like Battlefield to me, get 20 kills with a weapon and unlock an attachment for said weapon. Rush for 3 TD's in one game get a ratings boost. I'm not a fan. I hope they give us the option to disable this, if not it could keep me from buying the game, I'll need to know more though.

I don't want my players ratings going up and down every game. Maybe every quarter of the season, every 4 games, but do it based on their stats/ performance and not predetermined set goals. I don't play madden thinking I need to get Jamaal Charles 130 yards rushing this game. If it happens great, but I don't want that in my head as something I need to get done. Yeah if it's week 17 and I need 130 yards to reach 2000 for the season, sure, but week 5. I'm just playing the game of football.

[m1ke_nyc]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

Like most here im not happy with the current state of CFM. The solution for me is simple, give me franchise mode from the PS2 OG Xbox days. I still remember to this day I benched Chad Pennington, and over the weeks his morale dropped so low he refused to play or even negotiate a new contract. He wanted out. All I could do was trade him. That was pretty cool. That franchise mode was pretty deep.

[cthurt]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

Like most here im not happy with the current state of CFM. The solution for me is simple, give me franchise mode from the PS2 OG Xbox days. I still remember to this day I benched Chad Pennington, and over the weeks his morale dropped so low he refused to play or even negotiate a new contract. He wanted out. All I could do was trade him. That was pretty cool. That franchise mode was pretty deep.

Hard to forget the good old days of having players hold out or even messing up team morale by trading a certain player away, too bad I was too young at the time to really appreciate the things like that, I actually rememberd getting frustrated back then when things like that would happen, guess that was my casusal gamer days.

[brandon27]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

I'm a bit confused here.


Back in the day... player progression in Franchise was just... whatever the computer felt like really, based on performance, and a potential grade.


People complained. "Player A rushed for 2000 yards and 18 TD's, and only got a 5 point overall increase!"


People complained they wanted to control progression on their own. They gave us that system. You get to choose how to use the points you've earned, to build your player they way you want. Now here we are complaining again about the system.


Personally, I like the system. I like my players earning points, that I can then assign to their rating how I see fit as the coach/GM. I don't particularly like the XP being awarded based on goals. I'm not sure how else you do it. I have found myself though in a game going... damn! I need to get Player B, 7 catches, 85 yards, and 3 TD's to get him his points. That's the part I don't like. Just have a standard system for how It gives out points, not specific goals to attain so people are always shooting for them. It does take the realism away. "I've got to get DaVante Parker 8 catches and 3TD's this week for max progression points." What??? Just give him points based on what he's done, and I think that makes it better.


I'm just not sure what else you can do. I like this system better than the computer randomly progressing/regressing my players.


I guess you could go the NFL Head Coach route, which is what I assume most people here want CFM to go, myself included. Add some of those features in and it goes a long way.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

I'm a bit confused here.


Back in the day... player progression in Franchise was just... whatever the computer felt like really, based on performance, and a potential grade.


People complained. "Player A rushed for 2000 yards and 18 TD's, and only got a 5 point overall increase!"


People complained they wanted to control progression on their own.

Hope this clears things up for you (for at least what I was asking for). I won't speak for others.

I wanted more realistic control to the potential based system. Like coaches attributes for player evaluation and teaching ability for different positions. Hiring a coaching staff with same kinds of attributes. Having injuries temporarily effect ratings (or permanently depending on the injury), veteran player mentors for a position, practice schedule and types of things being emphasized in practice, team drills, individual drills, etc, etc, etc. You know, realistic control. Not arcade control.

I also wanted player perceived ratings/attributes to be shown while the actual ones were hidden. The better the coaching and scouting staff evaluation attributes are, the more accurate the perceived attributes would be. You know, more realistic, less arcade.

I wanted realistic control, realistic depth. What I got was arcade control, arcade depth.

And if people are asking for both arcade control and realistic control. Why not have both and make both optional.

[charter04]

I'm a bit confused here.


Back in the day... player progression in Franchise was just... whatever the computer felt like really, based on performance, and a potential grade.


People complained. "Player A rushed for 2000 yards and 18 TD's, and only got a 5 point overall increase!"


People complained they wanted to control progression on their own. They gave us that system. You get to choose how to use the points you've earned, to build your player they way you want. Now here we are complaining again about the system.


Personally, I like the system. I like my players earning points, that I can then assign to their rating how I see fit as the coach/GM. I don't particularly like the XP being awarded based on goals. I'm not sure how else you do it. I have found myself though in a game going... damn! I need to get Player B, 7 catches, 85 yards, and 3 TD's to get him his points. That's the part I don't like. Just have a standard system for how It gives out points, not specific goals to attain so people are always shooting for them. It does take the realism away. "I've got to get DaVante Parker 8 catches and 3TD's this week for max progression points." What??? Just give him points based on what he's done, and I think that makes it better.


I'm just not sure what else you can do. I like this system better than the computer randomly progressing/regressing my players.


I guess you could go the NFL Head Coach route, which is what I assume most people here want CFM to go, myself included. Add some of those features in and it goes a long way.

I don't think people are complaining about having control I think is the unrealistic way we can control players.

A real coach can control coaching the players and training them but, they can't automatically make every player on the team better just by winning or completing goals.

Example. In the online CFM I'm in you really don't have to worry about having a QB. There usually 2-5 superstar development QB's in every draft and it only takes about one season to get them to 90 overall or higher. So we have about 5-10 99 overall QB's in our league. Russell Wilson now has 99 THP.

The point is not having control it's giving us realistic control. Make the things we can improve the players on lifelike.

I can only imagine how easy it would be to have a team of superstars if I was only playing the CPU in offline CFM. Should I have to give myself house rules, just for a mode that is supposed to be realistic, to be realistic?

And yes I agree that the Head Coach way would be close to Ideal for me as well. I thought with Josh Looman at the helm from M13 to M15 we would be getting more like HC09 but, it's been this XP stuff.

I can make the xp model work for me and I have fun in my league but, if things where done in a more real manner it would be that much more fun.

Right now it's just too easy to build a unrealistic super team by winning a few SB's.

[Bull_Dozer]

Not a fan of the random goal thing. More is not better. I don't like player progression based on arbitrary stat goals.

[cthurt]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

I feel like the current system they have with the goals would be more welcomed if it was related to the players contract, like how in real life players can get a bonus for making 6 sacks in a season, or making the pro bowl etc. I feel like it would also help the offseason where you can look back and see if this player is worth resigning just based off stats and goals met.

[seanhazz1]

This is a move to a more moderate player performance based system as opposed to the "gift" system from Madden 15. Our players will not get better unless they play in game, as it should be, as in the real NFL. That they added an incentive for extra confidence/xp is still better than the FREE confidence players got in 15.
Its almost like some people are complaining that they won't be able to build their super team as easily.

Under the current system, the rich get richer, and those who have won an online Madden league know what that means. No gift XP or confidence for just being on the team sitting on the bench. It should be hard to take a rookie from 75-99 in 3 seasons and last year allowed you to do it easily in one, especially if you won the Superbowl, you could make every bench rookie a star over night. That had to stop with all the Free XP/confidence at the top, and was unrealistic.

I'd say the average hardcore online Madden league lasts 4 maybe 5 seasons between release(I'm in a 5 and a 6 yr progressed league), with an every other day advance. How do you make the playing field fair for players "stuck" with lower market teams if the better teams always get better, through current TEAM goals associated with playoffs and Superbowl (how many Jaguar champions do you see in online connected careers)?. Owner mode finance tuning will help along with the XP/confidence updates for the players. A team is the sum of its parts, so individual goals, help the team a whole. IMO, The team goals/rewards should be owner/ coach/trainer/scout related only.

The drive goals can appear dubious, but how do you know it wasn't there all along in some way as a background process, and was just hidden from view? Not everyone will meet the goals, and some will, through normal game play and play calling schemes. If you decide to play for the goals, then it can become a mini-game for you inside the game, as someone mentioned, but could come at a loss of the game or other goal challenges. This also appears to be supplemental to normal xp/confidence gains.

If a players wants to 'stat stuff' like Brady-Moss in 07 as some have mentioned', well that's no different from the way players play now, as online commissioners frequently have anti-stat stuffing and fair play rules just to combat it, as players will still 'stat stuff'for LEET XP, but usually because they can afford to based on game situation (blowout) or because they are driven to it through opponent's game play.

Sim-to-Win, Free Practice, Combine Stats, and visible Scouting Reports are all welcome additions/re-additions to the franchise, that should have always been there in CFM.

I see the Connected career updates as a move to a MORE SIM template than last years version, that provides a more fair way to advance teams in lower markets with good players, and create a sense of parity.

In the end, sim is a way of playing the game between like-minded individuals or groups, represented through a matchup of contrasting styles played out on the field, and not some special button or game mode that is the responsibility of EA. These sim people don't need a mode or feature to do this and already know how to "keep it real"

Would you rather earn "Badges", that trump every players individual playing skills with a 'magic badge of clutch skill' he suddenly earned in game? I wouldn't as, that's more even more arcade-like IMO.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

Under the current system, the rich get richer, and those who have won an online Madden league know what that means. No gift XP or confidence for just being on the team sitting on the bench. It should be hard to take a rookie from 75-99 in 3 seasons and last year allowed you to do it easily in one, especially if you won the Superbowl, you could make every bench rookie a star over night. That had to stop with all the Free XP/confidence at the top, and was unrealistic.

Mike McCarthy says that players make their biggest jump in improvement between (not during), but between year one and year two. Playing is not a realistic way to base progression. It should be part of it. But playing time does not explain why most players make their biggest improvement BETWEEN year one and year two.

XP/Goals, whether they are during games or end of season goals, are not a realistic way to do progression in a team oriented sports game.

It's OK for us to have different answers to the threads question. I'm just giving my answer to it.

[Jr.]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

When they made the decision to use performance to enhance ability, they sacrificed realism. Performance is a reflection of progression, not the other way around.

No one learns to catch a ball better because they had 1,000 yards receiving.

They have the tail before the head.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

I've said it before but I can live with XP. XP is just the medium in terms of progressing players. I could give or take on being able to pick and choose what you progress. On one hand I like the freedom but on the other I do feel like you should only be able to increase attributes relevant to the skills at that position. Speed, strength, acceleration, agility, pretty much all physical attributes shouldn't vary that much but I wouldn't have a problem with them changing a little bit if it was based on something like a good or bad strength and conditioning coach.

The idea of my player scoring three touchdowns being the reason he gets better is where it gets lost. If XP was divvied up to players through OTA's and Training Camp practices and the amount was based on some sort of hidden player potential as well as a coaching staff then I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. I just don't like goals at all and have no desire to ever attempt to accomplish them. It almost seems like they're trying to circumvent any kind of off-season or personnel depth by just bundling it all into goals and, yes, that is sacrificing realism and depth among other things.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

I don't think people are complaining about having control I think is the unrealistic way we can control players.

A real coach can control coaching the players and training them but, they can't automatically make every player on the team better just by winning or completing goals.

Example. In the online CFM I'm in you really don't have to worry about having a QB. There usually 2-5 superstar development QB's in every draft and it only takes about one season to get them to 90 overall or higher. So we have about 5-10 99 overall QB's in our league. Russell Wilson now has 99 THP.

The point is not having control it's giving us realistic control. Make the things we can improve the players on lifelike.

I can only imagine how easy it would be to have a team of superstars if I was only playing the CPU in offline CFM. Should I have to give myself house rules, just for a mode that is supposed to be realistic, to be realistic?

And yes I agree that the Head Coach way would be close to Ideal for me as well. I thought with Josh Looman at the helm from M13 to M15 we would be getting more like HC09 but, it's been this XP stuff.

I can make the xp model work for me and I have fun in my league but, if things where done in a more real manner it would be that much more fun.

Right now it's just too easy to build a unrealistic super team by winning a few SB's.

I have been thinking about the number of players that have ratings in the 90 plus range, and it seems to me, from my observations in building a team in MUT and also how the precision modifier operates, that a player needs to have 90 plus in their key attributes to truly be open to the full array of animations, and these animations is what helps separate player ability at the noticeable level to the user; even in the original details of the precision modifier it was stated that players would need a 90 or higher ratings in juke or stiff arm or trucking, etc to take advantage of the precision modifier itself...

I am beginning to think that madden uses qualifying number points to determine when a player increases in ability and gains animations which allow for the increase in abilities - thus qualifying numbers would be like: 70, 80, 90; thus you will not see a difference between players who have ratings between, say, 70 to 79, but once they hit 80, there will be a noticeable improvement; then ratings between 80 and 89 will not see much separation of improved performance, but once you hit 90, there will be a difference in performance that can be noticed, mostly through animations available....(this is merely a hypothesis at this time)

[JaymeeAwesome]

Re: Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

They are going backwards. Pretty soon it will be run for 2000 yards and unlock this player or that piece of equipment. All the stuff that the younger casual crowd gets off on that "realism" guys tend to despise.



I paid for the game. Just let me have access to everything! And the observation is spot on - goals will make cheesing and exploits a high priority again.



C

I know I am responding to a respond early in the thread but I wanted to clear up the idea of "Owning" the game upon payment. You actually don't own the game. You own a license to play the game. The game itself is still owned by EA.

Just like with Microsoft office. Just because you paid for Excel doesn't mean that you should have access to edit code to enhance your own experience. You have to use excel based on how Microsoft built it for you.

I think if people thought of it this way, there would be less complaints about how the game runs. Every year you pay $60 to update your license to the newest updates.

[Sheba2011]

I am not a huge fan of the over emphasis on goals. It is about as far from real life as you can get. Take my team for example: The Super Bowl Champion Patriots, during any given game Julian Edelman could be the centerpiece of the offense making 10+ catches for 100 yards or he could be used as a decoy making 0 catches. If the team wins it does not negatively affect him because he didn't catch the ball 3 times or score a TD. He doesn't become a worse player because of that. Player roles in real life change with each game plan.

Having said that I do think the changes to the scouting are more realistic than what we previously had, mostly because of the combine results being shown. There is still some work to be done but it is a good start and a change we haven't had in some time.