PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

[KG]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

IDK Matt, I don't think the lack of fouls are related to the wide open gameplay. It's not like some old FIFA's ('13 for example) where the CPU was so agile you couldn't get close to them in order to foul. You can get near the CPU and vice versa. The Havok engine & the Fox Engine came about in PES 2014 and the last patch there, using the same 2 engines they use now, had fouls perfect. PES 2014 last patch and FIFA 15 are by far the best games when it comes to fouls. FIFA 15 had better referee logic though.

Don't get me wrong, there's still A LOT of tightening up to be done by Konami before release but I don't think either game will ever come close to what we see IRL. Klash's video was a good result, mainly because of his approach to the game tactically (conservative pressure, many in defense, etc...) vs a much better side in ROma. Not many people want to do that or even have the discipline to do that. Hell, I don't even think I could do that, lol. People want to take their inferior squads to Stamford Bridge and play them off the pitch with beautiful football. EA realized this a while ago and Konami is starting to fully embrace it. EA throws us a bone with the sliders though, and yeah, hopefully we'll get some sliders in the future.

EDIT - should say Fouls AREN'T related...

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

I'm not sure PES will ever reach this point for the CPU to develop this pace. I'm not sure FIFA can even do it (pass speed for both games), but it's shown better signs for the positioning to be the catalyst of proper pace of play.

Can you please further elaborate on how FIFA shows better catalyst of proper pace of play because proper pace of play is one thing I will give PES the massive advantage over FIFA based on youtube videos and the demos I have tried.

FIFA has always relied on insanely fast gameplay while PES has always had the slower paced gameplay. PES players will actually work the ball around, pass the ball backwards, and wait until the proper moment to attack. FIFA, not so much. FIFA has always been attack first, attack second, and attack, attack and attack. It simply never stops. There's not a moment to breathe. From what little soccer I actually get to watch, PES resembles what I see in real life way, way, way more than what I see in FIFA.

My first ever soccer game purchased was PES2014 - loved it. My second soccer game that will ever be purchased will likely be PES2016, digital (hate swapping disc out).

[briguy4747]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

Not sure if this is the correct thread to ask a question about weather affect choices in the menu, prior to kickoff (or random weather):

In the demo, only day & fine weather is an option...which is always sunny, with shadows on the field...
Will there be a fine weather option to select cloudy or overcast or normal weather, (in the daytime) without sunlight...so there isn't often shadows on the field ?

MLB 15 The Show has so many weather options !
PES 2016 should have the same choices !

[Matt10]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

Can you please further elaborate on how FIFA shows better catalyst of proper pace of play because proper pace of play is one thing I will give PES the massive advantage over FIFA based on youtube videos and the demos I have tried.

FIFA has always relied on insanely fast gameplay while PES has always had the slower paced gameplay. PES players will actually work the ball around, pass the ball backwards, and wait until the proper moment to attack. FIFA, not so much. FIFA has always been attack first, attack second, and attack, attack and attack. It simply never stops. There's not a moment to breathe. From what little soccer I actually get to watch, PES resembles what I see in real life way, way, way more than what I see in FIFA.

My first ever soccer game purchased was PES2014 - loved it. My second soccer game that will ever be purchased will likely be PES2016, digital (hate swapping disc out).

I could but that would derail the thread further and border on the epic pes vs fifa battle. Some of us will be objective and some will be fanboys of their game. It's a downward spiral regardless. Once both games demo is out then that comparison can be made. I did post on my YT how solid FIFA 14 PC looks with sliders and still stands out in terms of gameplay.

[KG]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

Can you please further elaborate on how FIFA shows better catalyst of proper pace of play because proper pace of play is one thing I will give PES the massive advantage over FIFA based on youtube videos and the demos I have tried.

FIFA has always relied on insanely fast gameplay while PES has always had the slower paced gameplay. PES players will actually work the ball around, pass the ball backwards, and wait until the proper moment to attack. FIFA, not so much. FIFA has always been attack first, attack second, and attack, attack and attack. It simply never stops. There's not a moment to breathe. From what little soccer I actually get to watch, PES resembles what I see in real life way, way, way more than what I see in FIFA.

My first ever soccer game purchased was PES2014 - loved it. My second soccer game that will ever be purchased will likely be PES2016, digital (hate swapping disc out).

The more recent FIFA's have had AI that passes back and in different ways (crosses the field, long balls, etc...).

Both games are programmed to take what you give them if you allow it. FIFA probably more-so than PES, especially 15 with it's pointless passing around the back for "Possession" based teams.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

I could but that would derail the thread further and border on the epic pes vs fifa battle. Some of us will be objective and some will be fanboys of their game. It's a downward spiral regardless. Once both games demo is out then that comparison can be made. I did post on my YT how solid FIFA 14 PC looks with sliders and still stands out in terms of gameplay.

Where's your youtube link? Unfortunately, there isn't an "other" forum where one can talk about competing games. One thing I wish forums would allow is to simply be able to talk about competing games without having to use the word fanboy/girl or troll. Even if one side becomes a little bit more passionate, at least one can still read those passionate responses without bias.

Anyways, fired up FIFA15 PS4 and apparently you can slow the pace down to something I see in PES16. It's truly about how one plays the game. If one wants to use the sprint button for the entire match, the CPU is going to want to counter that or keep pace with the player spamming the sprint button. If the player wants to slow the game down in both games, the CPU will react accordingly. The only thing I'm not too fond of FIFA15 is there are frequent instances where one player wants to simply dribble down the entire field.

In other words, it's the player that essentially dictates how the CPU plays and behaves.

The one thing I wish PES would implement is more fouls and stoppages and possibly increasing goalie AI; I think those two, especially the lack of fouls is what's truly holding back PES.

PES16 is still on my to buy list, digitally. Love the way the pace is slower. Love the player models, love the way the players animate.

Is there a slider to increase foul frequency in PES16 is the question. And is there a slider to bump up the goalie AI in PES16 is the second question. Was there either slider present in PES15?

[dmendenhall_9]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

Does anyone think the final defensive line stands a bit to high up field contributing to the vast amount of counter attacks? Don't get me wrong really enjoying this demo the best pes showing in years. A few tweaks here and there and we could have a real gem. The demo has done more than enough to convince me this is a day 1 purchase.

It is in tactics and how you set up your fluid formation. You can also use the d pad to push your line up or back which is very useful.

[dmendenhall_9]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

I get that, I do. Pace of play is also determined by completed pass success as well. PES AI really main attack is a string of completed passes, that has been the consistent theme in all videos, including klash's and inf0's videos that I have seen - along with dmend's.

I made a video on FIFA that you can control the pace of play by controlling one player (CM/DM) as well. That's not just a PES thing. PES has also had the issues of controlling all 11 players ever since they switched to this Fox engine. It was never like this before.

Eitherway, I'm remaining objective, there are two games that also include PES 13 and PES 11. There is a lot of defending of PES 16 demo for some reason vs remaining objective to what could be possible. There are big issues still with the game, but it is enjoyable in the moment. It definitely doesn't look like what we see IRL though, and I think if we could tighten the field up, lower the pass speed and pass accuracy - we'd get there with PES 16. I think tactics will only go so far, but then again it's just the demo - who knows what will be modified in the full release, but I'm certain the foul radius for the referee is ineffective because of how wide open the gameplay is. Tighten it up (programming, not tactics) and you'll start seeing that radius grow closer to the action, thus fouls getting called more. This was the issue with FIFA 14 (old gen), except it was paired with pass speed and FT control (sliders, duh) to get the referee to start making obvious foul calls. Yet another reason PES needs, and always will need, gameplay sliders. I've said it for 10+ years, and I'll say it for 10+ more.

At the same time I don't think we want complete realistic gameplay, unfortunately i don't have 90 minutes to play a football video game (I wish). I want to see football tactics and movement that allows for build up but in a quicker fashion (not that ball or players move quicker the strategy does). BUT your point about passing is very true and now frustrating me to no end. haha. Thanks a lot Matt.

I do find that when using fluid formations to get your team behind the ball there is a lot more strategy for both teams to try and break down the other using different tactics. It is pretty damn fun. (Are you able to play the demo Matt? I know you are a PC guy and for that reason alone FIFA is probably the better choice for you). The pass speed on -1 is actually really good. It just FEELS really good when you play, I agree that normal is just too fast.

So in my defense of PES 2016 (demo!, hahaha, not sure why I am putting so much effort into the demo) if they can get the pass accuracy down a bit for user and AI and also get fouls called at a better pace it would turn into a real classic in my opinion.

Also I am a PES fanboy, though I have switched back and forth quite a bit in the past few years and haven't really gotten into until the past two. The PES animations and player models just rub me the right way if you know what I mean, not sure why FIFA doesn't (I think the breadth of animations in FIFA is higher but PES has more intriguing ones). So I am just hoping for a great PES game but I think both will be worth playing this year. Now to go back to work and see if I can get this passing accuracy down. haha. Check out my thread for more talk over there on that.

[Matt10]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

At the same time I don't think we want complete realistic gameplay, unfortunately i don't have 90 minutes to play a football video game (I wish). I want to see football tactics and movement that allows for build up but in a quicker fashion (not that ball or players move quicker the strategy does). BUT your point about passing is very true and now frustrating me to no end. haha. Thanks a lot Matt.

I do find that when using fluid formations to get your team behind the ball there is a lot more strategy for both teams to try and break down the other using different tactics. It is pretty damn fun. (Are you able to play the demo Matt? I know you are a PC guy and for that reason alone FIFA is probably the better choice for you). The pass speed on -1 is actually really good. It just FEELS really good when you play, I agree that normal is just too fast.

So in my defense of PES 2016 (demo!, hahaha, not sure why I am putting so much effort into the demo) if they can get the pass accuracy down a bit for user and AI and also get fouls called at a better pace it would turn into a real classic in my opinion.

Also I am a PES fanboy, though I have switched back and forth quite a bit in the past few years and haven't really gotten into until the past two. The PES animations and player models just rub me the right way if you know what I mean, not sure why FIFA doesn't (I think the breadth of animations in FIFA is higher but PES has more intriguing ones). So I am just hoping for a great PES game but I think both will be worth playing this year. Now to go back to work and see if I can get this passing accuracy down. haha. Check out my thread for more talk over there on that.

I hear what you're saying, and I appreciate your status in remaining objective to bettering the game of PES. I played the demo for a good 8+ hours yesterday at a friend's house (yes, somehow being 30 and I still have a friend, call it finding sanity amongst a wife and 2 kids i reckon), and that's where my basis is coming from.

The realism factor is not so much realism, but it plays a part in believable difficulty. It shouldn't feel like I'm playing a boss level by absorbing 10-15 passes for each possesion that end with a shot on goal, right? That's what it feels like with PES 16. So many videos, almost all of them are either a result of 10-12 connected passes, finishing with a shot on goal. There is that odd out random long ball over the top, but it doesn't make up for the attack method from the CPU.

It's just not how the game of soccer is played. Those of you that have played the game should know that as well. The ball is loose, it's alive, it's hard to control, it's damn hard to hit those perfect short passes that stay on the turf when you're under pressure (see the 5'8 forward making this post lol).

At the end of the day, I completely understand why we have what we have. This is a global game and global games have global interperatations. There is no fun level for those that want to play arcade - but get sim gameplay - and vice versa. This is why PES needs sliders for the sim crowd or an impactful enough alternative. Fluid formations is a fantastic start in the right direction, the effectiveness of game speed is a step in the right direction - but it's not quite there, it's damn close though, but it's missing the fundamentals of what truly makes this the beautiful game. Beauty is rare for a reason, which is why consistently absorbing 10-12 passes and then shot...is not beautiful at all.

[dmendenhall_9]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

I hear what you're saying, and I appreciate your status in remaining objective to bettering the game of PES. I played the demo for a good 8+ hours yesterday at a friend's house (yes, somehow being 30 and I still have a friend, call it finding sanity amongst a wife and 2 kids i reckon), and that's where my basis is coming from.

The realism factor is not so much realism, but it plays a part in believable difficulty. It shouldn't feel like I'm playing a boss level by absorbing 10-15 passes for each possesion that end with a shot on goal, right? That's what it feels like with PES 16. So many videos, almost all of them are either a result of 10-12 connected passes, finishing with a shot on goal. There is that odd out random long ball over the top, but it doesn't make up for the attack method from the CPU.

It's just not how the game of soccer is played. Those of you that have played the game should know that as well. The ball is loose, it's alive, it's hard to control, it's damn hard to hit those perfect short passes that stay on the turf when you're under pressure (see the 5'8 forward making this post lol).

At the end of the day, I completely understand why we have what we have. This is a global game and global games have global interperatations. There is no fun level for those that want to play arcade - but get sim gameplay - and vice versa. This is why PES needs sliders for the sim crowd or an impactful enough alternative. Fluid formations is a fantastic start in the right direction, the effectiveness of game speed is a step in the right direction - but it's not quite there, it's damn close though, but it's missing the fundamentals of what truly makes this the beautiful game. Beauty is rare for a reason, which is why consistently absorbing 10-12 passes and then shot...is not beautiful at all.

Word. Hey don't worry I am an old guy too (age will remain unsaid). Yeah, I do find (maybe more often then you have) that about 30% of computer possessions end in an interception or pass given up, though the high pass percentage is a problem.

I have been trying to see if I can work around it but no luck so far. AI gets 85-90% most of the time (unless play Juventus because they try a lot of long balls). 85-90 is not bad for really good teams (games today Chelsea - 82% Man city - 83% CP - 80% Arsenal - 85%) So it is close! But yes that added little bit of passing to be less accurate would be huge. I do like to see the AI trying different things and I have had a couple games where they do change it up but still they pass really well. I have had a couple games where they switch it up and the bouts of possession are broken up by times where they are more direct or go down the wings.

Thanks for your input Matt! Now I am obsessed with Pass percentage because it seems like it is so close. 10% less is not that much and would break up those looooong period of possessions a little more often that would make the difference.

[Matt10]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

Word. Hey don't worry I am an old guy too (age will remain unsaid). Yeah, I do find (maybe more often then you have) that about 30% of computer possessions end in an interception or pass given up, though the high pass percentage is a problem.

I have been trying to see if I can work around it but no luck so far. AI gets 85-90% most of the time (unless play Juventus because they try a lot of long balls). 85-90 is not bad for really good teams (games today Chelsea - 82% Man city - 83% CP - 80% Arsenal - 85%) So it is close! But yes that added little bit of passing to be less accurate would be huge. I do like to see the AI trying different things and I have had a couple games where they do change it up but still they pass really well. I have had a couple games where they switch it up and the bouts of possession are broken up by times where they are more direct or go down the wings.

Thanks for your input Matt! Now I am obsessed with Pass percentage because it seems like it is so close. 10% less is not that much and would break up those looooong period of possessions a little more often that would make the difference.

That's what I'm saying, it's so close to be perfect. I'm not a fan of PES or FIFA, I'm a fan of realistic soccer games - those just happen to be the ones in the market. I'm in no allegiance to like either one. Last 2 years it has been an absolute pain to not play PES because I knew the potential the fox engine could have brought. It looks like PES 16 is inching there, but needs to bring...what I always call...the "human" element...to the pitch. If they're not going to have it out of the box, then let me do it in another way - that's all I ask. The checklist only goes towards tactics and game speed...after that, what else? I know if someone creates the global editor for PC, I'll be all over it - but till then this will be a tough purchase for me.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

The realism factor is not so much realism, but it plays a part in believable difficulty. It shouldn't feel like I'm playing a boss level by absorbing 10-15 passes for each possesion that end with a shot on goal, right? That's what it feels like with PES 16. So many videos, almost all of them are either a result of 10-12 connected passes, finishing with a shot on goal. There is that odd out random long ball over the top, but it doesn't make up for the attack method from the CPU.

It's just not how the game of soccer is played. Those of you that have played the game should know that as well. The ball is loose, it's alive, it's hard to control, it's damn hard to hit those perfect short passes that stay on the turf when you're under pressure (see the 5'8 forward making this post lol).

At the end of the day, I completely understand why we have what we have. This is a global game and global games have global interperatations. There is no fun level for those that want to play arcade - but get sim gameplay - and vice versa. This is why PES needs sliders for the sim crowd or an impactful enough alternative. Fluid formations is a fantastic start in the right direction, the effectiveness of game speed is a step in the right direction - but it's not quite there, it's damn close though, but it's missing the fundamentals of what truly makes this the beautiful game. Beauty is rare for a reason, which is why consistently absorbing 10-12 passes and then shot...is not beautiful at all.

Isn't that the same in FIFA? With FIFA15 I can pass the ball accurately to all my other players on the field 10-20 times and more if I so choose. The same with CPU. Passes are accurate for both games unless you decide to do a through-pass.

I have had plenty of passes stolen when pressed in PES16. The CPU and I have lost the ball inside our own respective territory.

[dmendenhall_9]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

Isn't that the same in FIFA? With FIFA15 I can pass the ball accurately to all my other players on the field 10-20 times and more if I so choose. The same with CPU. Passes are accurate for both games unless you decide to do a through-pass.

I have had plenty of passes stolen when pressed in PES16. The CPU and I have lost the ball inside our own respective territory.

Yeah, but Matt and a bunch of other guys work hard on sliders to make it pretty much a completely different game. FIFA 15 out of the box is pretty much garbage. Those guys made it playable.

But i agree with your sentiment about PES. That has happened to me too. It is awesome. Just wish they weren't sooooo good at passing.

[RoyceDa59]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

I don't think PES will ever have sliders, is it really requested a lot by people? But I wish w!ld@ was still making his global editor for PC don't think he has done one in a while.

But as far trying to get PES and FIFA to play as close to real life I gave up on that a long time ago. There was a time where I gave up on both those games and just stuck with Football Manager because they couldn't give me what I needed especially from the tactical side of things.

[Matt10]

Re: PES 2016 Demo Available Now on Xbox One and PlayStation 4

I'm streaming some FIFA, yes, FIFA, but it's FIFA 14 PC with sliders and a gameplay mod. This is how I think that any game should be based on in terms of gameplay. It's what I would like for future PES/FIFA to look like as a base (note I'm not saying FIFA 14 is above everything else, I'm just saying it's a base of all the good things we are looking for in terms of football fundamentals).

Feel free to come on in. Soccer lover first, PES and FIFA after.

http://www.twitch.tv/matt10l