The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

[roadman]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

Not necessarily an incorrect one though.

Not at all, just all a matter of personal opinion.

[Gridiron]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

Not at all, just all a matter of personal opinion.

Maybe, but I dont see how if they added the like 250+ missing things that:

*we see on Sundays

*were in other football games

*were in older Maddens

*are in other sports games

that Maddens file size wouldn't be bigger. Just this article alone shows things that arent in the game but should be, and it doesnt even scratch the surface.

[Cajungodfather]

The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

But its been that way for years. Decades. The NFL hasnt been a defensive league in eras now, so we cant say its "today's fans", and this has been the choice of the NFL to make rules to favor offense more and more over eras going back as far as the 1950's when more offensive advantages started coming in gradually. This isnt a new situation we are just at the height of it now.



Plus, if Madden is reflecting the offensive slant that the real NFL is producing then we cant jump on Madden for that.



See, people may look at what I say as always negative but Im fair about my criticism, the problem is that Madden has so much to criticize that it overshadows what they do right, but this time Im on Madden's side. I dont want the game to be a '72 Dolphins Vs '85 Bears defensive game just because some people want it that way. I want the game to reflect the type of offense that happens in real life, and knockdown drag out defense is not realistic to the NFL game we watch. If we want that then we arent asking for a sim of the real NFL and we are then contradicting ourselves.



We cant have it both ways.

I may not have explained my thought well enough. What I was getting at, is people don't want to sit and play game where it's hard to score, they would rather be able to put up 35-42 points a game than to have to play defense and win a game that's 20-17. The same way that fans rather watch a game on tv that ends up 42-38 over s game that ends up 13-10. This is why I think madden will always be an offense first game.

The last paragraph, I get your point, but the problem imo, isn't so much people want a knock it drag out defensive game, they want a game that doesn't allow you to exploit certain routes and plays in the game. It's gotten much better over the years, but it's still at the point to where you can play a guy online that runs 3-4 plays all game long, and your defense will never adjust, even if you call the correct defense, the wr will still get open for the most part. Especially in this years version, how often to you see team just throwing the ball up down field, and letting the wr make a one handed catch? And when teams do that, how often does it actually work? Right now, you will complete well over 50% of those passes in coverage.


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[roadman]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

Maybe, but I dont see how if they added the like 250+ missing things that:

*we see on Sundays

*were in other football games

*were in older Maddens

*are in other sports games

that Maddens file size wouldn't be bigger. Just this article alone shows things that arent in the game but should be, and it doesnt even scratch the surface.

Maybe, I'm not saying the file size wouldn't be bigger if more content was added, I'm just saying that the inference that a better game will be the result isn't a given.

[schnaidt1]

Maybe, I'm not saying the file size wouldn't be bigger if more content was added, I'm just saying that the inference that a better game will be the result isn't a given.

Agreed! Bumping up the size of sports video game might not make it better...we have no way of knowing....all we do know is that the sports games that are twice the size....are much better games, much more realistic, more sim, more of what the people want. dont get me wrong...they have their issues as well, there is still many improvements needed in those sports games from those companies....but can anyone show me a sports game that is nearly double the size of others that is inferior...and no rocket league doesnt count...im talking real sports like soccer, wrestling, boxing, ufc, baseball, hockey, basketball, football,

[roadman]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

Agreed! Bumping up the size of sports video game might not make it better...we have no way of knowing....all we do know is that the sports games that are twice the size....are much better games, much more realistic, more sim, more of what the people want. dont get me wrong...they have their issues as well, there is still many improvements needed in those sports games from those companies....but can anyone show me a sports game that is nearly double the size of others that is inferior...and no rocket league doesnt count...im talking real sports like soccer, wrestling, boxing, ufc, baseball, hockey, basketball, football,

I think CM Hoe might be better to answer your question than I can because he has answered the same question before.

And it's definitely been proven outside of the sports arena.(no pun intended)

On a personal note, did you give up on Madden this year? It's been playing great with all-pro default.

Here is part of his answer from over a year ago:

On XBOX One, FIFA 14 is the highest-rated game by Metacritic score, and its install size is 8.7 GB.

The original assertion from the first reply in this thread was that quality games, regardless of genre, were ones with larger install sizes. That's what I have been responding to. That's absolutely not true and I've provided a large number of counterexamples to that end. There's simply no correlation.

Madden absolutely would not be a better game, for example, if the game was 10 GB and then EA Tiburon added 40 GB of NFL Films footage accessible via some hypothetical digital recreation of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, accessible only after you achieve a certain Legacy score with a player in Connected Franchise mode. This hypothetical version of Madden would still be a 50 GB game, but it'd play no better than last year's version.

To repeat myself from earlier, the thing that changes by adding more content with specific regard to a sports game is atmosphere and presentation. More content adds more player faces, more player-specific animations, more stadiums, more lines of commentary, etc. These things are nice and can make a good game great, but they cannot make a bad game good. A good game must stand up foremost solely on the gameplay itself. With respect to Madden, the offensive line play, WR-DB interaction, defensive play calling AI, defensive run fits, and what not don't magically improve because the game has a bigger disc footprint. Seeing those gameplay mechanics addressed are the things that everyone in the simulation sports community wants, and those things are almost entirely code implementation and refactoring (admittedly with some supporting animation additions will be needed, yes, but that's a difference on a scale of megabytes, not gigabytes).

You're more likely to see an impact on the game size if Tiburon decided on a whim to add 1000 arbitrary lines of commentary to the game, or if the NFL decided tomorrow to put a team in London and Tiburon had to add their home, road, and alternate uniform textures along with the stadium mesh and textures required for rendering that stadium.

[charter04]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

But its been that way for years. Decades. The NFL hasnt been a defensive league in eras now, so we cant say its "today's fans", and this has been the choice of the NFL to make rules to favor offense more and more over eras going back as far as the 1950's when more offensive advantages started coming in gradually. This isnt a new situation we are just at the height of it now.



Plus, if Madden is reflecting the offensive slant that the real NFL is producing then we cant jump on Madden for that.



See, people may look at what I say as always negative but Im fair about my criticism, the problem is that Madden has so much to criticize that it overshadows what they do right, but this time Im on Madden's side. I dont want the game to be a '72 Dolphins Vs '85 Bears defensive game just because some people want it that way. I want the game to reflect the type of offense that happens in real life, and knockdown drag out defense is not realistic to the NFL game we watch. If we want that then we arent asking for a sim of the real NFL and we are then contradicting ourselves.



We cant have it both ways.

I understand what some are saying about offense but, Madden is presenting way more offense than the NFL. NFL teams that average 380 yards plus and 28 points per game are really good. That's in 15 min quarters though. Also They also can't just run 4 plays all game to do it.

In madden you can put up 30 points in 4 minute quarters all the time.

If someone uses 15 min quarters they have to house rule themselves or mess with sliders to keep from putting up 600 yards and 40 plus a game on the CPU.

The only reason AM is harder is because of the CPU side getting a ratings boost. Not better game planning, play calling, and other things that make a real NFL defense good.

If we had to face the equivalent of a real NFL team and defense as you see on Sunday's there is no way most could just move the ball up and down the field.

I know it's a lot for a video game but, that's what I want all madden level to be. Like playing a real NFL team. Let players play like themselves no ratings boosts. But, defenses would hide their coverages. Send blitzes from all over. Use coverages to trick you into making mistakes.

Long post sorry. Hope I explained myself.


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[michapop9]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

All this talk means nothing because the logic that madden uses for the most basic aspects of gameplay is flawed and doesn't allow for realism, so it follows that anything they build on top of it isn't going to either. They treat their game as just that, a game. Not an honest attempt at mimicking real life.

[NorrinRadd12]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

Disagree with the article, although Denver is the only defense I can have success with online because I user Von Miller and they have an excellent secondary. I know people think usering DL/pass rush means you suck, but I've been usering pass rushers since Chris Doleman on Tecmo Bowl.

Which leads me to the point of All-pro vs All-Madden in human vs human games. The difference is on All-Madden the defense plays fast, aggressive and confident. On All-Pro they play passive and unsure. On All-Pro I've seen cpu controlled players move out of the way of ball carriers and DBs intentionally not make a play on the ball. A couple years ago when EA took away All-Madden ranked games I asked one of the developers why (might have been on here, on EA forum or twitter, I forget which one) and his response they had too many complaints from All-Pro users in regards to rankings. Basically, the majority who voiced their opinion wanted the game to be easier. On Super Bowl Sunday my girlfriend's coworker challenged me to a game of Madden, I said sure, if we play All-Madden. He was typical online cheeser, sitting in my living room in the flesh. No running, didn't care about protection, no huddle, etc. Didn't even read the defense. Before the game he bragged about what he does online and the other coworkers who played him were sure he would win because he was sooooo good. Long story short, I held him to negative yardage in the first half with the Bucs, won the game 42-7. He couldn't understand how my pressure was getting to him so fast, eventhough he was only keeping 5 in to block and made no adjustments. Check that, his adjustment was to go no huddle and run the same play 3 times in a row, then throwing a pick when I audibled into the appropriate defense.

My last point will be short. The players are too big for the field. When they sprawl out they take up 3-4 yards, which would make them 9-12 feet tall. Advantage offense.

[ChaseB]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

Agreed! Bumping up the size of sports video game might not make it better...we have no way of knowing....all we do know is that the sports games that are twice the size....are much better games, much more realistic, more sim, more of what the people want. dont get me wrong...they have their issues as well, there is still many improvements needed in those sports games from those companies....but can anyone show me a sports game that is nearly double the size of others that is inferior...and no rocket league doesnt count...im talking real sports like soccer, wrestling, boxing, ufc, baseball, hockey, basketball, football,

As someone who has worked in games, I promise you this really doesn't matter. If you want to make the argument that other games have more content, you don't need to go to disc size to make it. Just compare features and all the stuff that's actually in the game and that's a good enough argument, you know? Saying Game X has more GBs in it proves nothing and never will prove anything, and it doesn't need to because you can judge a game on what's in it anyway.

EA could compress their audio files a different way. EA may just have fewer cutscenes in their game -- and compresses video files a different way as well. EA might compress textures a different way. EA may just have people on the tech side who strive to make the discs smaller so the install is shorter, and on and on.

[bkrich83]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

Amazing read!! I am so excited to see articles like this point out maddens massive head scratchers as to why features and mechanics from games 8 years and older arent being utilized....

the fact of the matter, you look at the size of madden games..checking in around 26 gigabytes...and its very lackluster in what it offers...

and then you see nba 2k16 check in at over 50 gigabytes...

11 on 11 is 26 gigs...but 5 on 5 is double the size?

and look how feature and mechanic rich 2k is..

kinda tells ya the difference between each company..




I wish that soon articles like this start being reflected in the games score you give them...because like you said at the end...if madden keeps going in this trend it will be a game you watch not play...yet OS's score for the game encourages people that its a solid product worth playing,


I agree with your write up 100% I just think more needs to be done Initially in your reviews of games to stay consistent...if Madden is leaving enough to be desired to not want to play, a review score should indicate that as well for us users who make purchasing decisions heavily based off what OS writers have to say about it.

There is zero correlation to how big an install is, to quality of game. Zero.

[Jarodd21]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

Great article.

If the whole media woulda been doing this for the past decade maybe things would be different, but this site still gives Madden higher scores than it deserves practically every season so it doesnt help.

Next we could use one for all the little things missing in this joint. You could have a 10 part series on that one!

Only thing Imma say about the defense though, is the AI needs to be able to catch on to a user calling the same play and all that, I agree, but the defense cant be OP like 15 had it. That was straight garbage. It can be balanced somehow.

I'm definitely tired of the AI not being able to adjust to USERs calling the same play over and over. We shouldn't have to go through another year of that issue not being addressed.

[NorrinRadd12]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

A fix to that could be another play call window showing what plays the offense (and defense) frequently calls in that down and distance and part of the field.

There was a feature a couple years ago that let the offense see the defensive play after they broke the huddle. I think it was based on QB ratings because when I used the Patriots I could see the coverages and who was blitzing pre-snap.

[ATLBrayden]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

As someone who has worked in games, I promise you this really doesn't matter. If you want to make the argument that other games have more content, you don't need to go to disc size to make it. Just compare features and all the stuff that's actually in the game and that's a good enough argument, you know? Saying Game X has more GBs in it proves nothing and never will prove anything, and it doesn't need to because you can judge a game on what's in it anyway.

EA could compress their audio files a different way. EA may just have fewer cutscenes in their game -- and compresses video files a different way as well. EA might compress textures a different way. EA may just have people on the tech side who strive to make the discs smaller so the install is shorter, and on and on.

Let's not forget that 2K has a whole movie thing going on in the MyCareer mode. There's a ton of cutscenes and such in that mode and I'm sure that's where a lot of the 2K game size comes from.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: The Broncos' Defense Dominated Super Bowl 50, But Can't in Madden

A fix to that could be another play call window showing what plays the offense (and defense) frequently calls in that down and distance and part of the field.

Coachglass actually does show you a lot of this information, but I never remember to set it up.

In any event, my problem with the defensive gameplay is that the front 7 players are intentionally nerfed in several ways.

How many times have you broken through to get a sack, but the other guy hits the pass button at the last second and gets the little dribbling incomplete animation? If real QBs were waiting that long to start their passing motion, they'd be strip sacked all day at best or get themselves injured at worst. If the team made it so that late throws in the face of pressure were the high-risk plays that they should be, then it would have a ripple effect through the gameplay. Players would either have to run substantially shorter routes or eat more sacks going for long plays.

It would also help if holding the sprint/scramble button as a QB force-zoomed the camera down to the QB, so you couldn't have a guy running flat out but still somehow able to read the coverage. It would make the scramble into the desperation move it's supposed to be, rather then the normal footspeed of the QB. If the guy escapes, then he can release the button and the camera will zoom back out, reflecting the QB getting his eyes downfield.