Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Not surprised the tackle battle is coming under scrutiny but what I'm kind of weary of is this:

To accompany the new special moves, the fakeout system has been overhauled to deliver a new experience to the ground game. When timing the special moves correctly, users can see and feel the power of new multi-player fakeout animations, with nearly a thousand possible outcomes.

What is a multi-player fakeout? It’s a dynamic animation that includes multiple players all at once based on their location. These can be 2 player interactions up to 6- player interactions, all depending on the type of move used, the ball carries skill level and the user’s own stick skills.

Maybe somebody can clarify this but is the new fakeout system a (weighted) roll of the dice of 2+ man animations that will take control away from the users on defense? Will the defender I'm controlling just randomly fall over with his ankles broken because someone jukes me rather than spastic moving of the analog stick from side to side with a player that doesn't have the agility to change directions that quickly?

I can't help but be reminded of how 2k's of the past emphasized contact in the paint which translated to canned two man animations when a player would go up for a layup or dunk, stripping all control away from the user.

[jeremym480]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Ratings determine the window for the tackle battle. More forgiving of defense when ratings higher and vice versa.

The whole mechanic takes less than a second, if that. It's barely noticeable


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How does the tackle battle work when you're playing against the AI?

Also, could you go into more depth about things like what happens if you do things like press the wrong button during a tackle battle?

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Not surprised the tackle battle is coming under scrutiny but what I'm kind of weary of is this:



Maybe somebody can clarify this but is the new fakeout system a (weighted) roll of the dice of 2+ man animations that will take control away from the users on defense? Will the defender I'm controlling just randomly fall over with his ankles broken because someone jukes me rather than spastic moving of the analog stick from side to side with a player that doesn't have the agility to change directions that quickly?

I can't help but be reminded of how 2k's of the past emphasized contact in the paint which translated to canned two man animations when a player would go up for a layup or dunk, stripping all control away from the user.

You lose some control depending on the situation. So let's say you're running at an offensive player who is running free along the sideline, and as you arrive the player initiates a juke, you might get an animation for your player where you go sliding by, trying to reach back for the tackle.

It's pretty context heavy, which is why they have the juke window aids in there for training purposes.

[cthurt]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

I don't like on screen aids, BUT as long as the tackle battle has multiple animations rather then just two of either getting tackled or breaking the tackle then I will be ok with it, but if its just a cut scene of the same animation every time there is a battle then I find it pointless and will get old quick.


Outside of that everything sounds promising, will be curious to see how the new running game will effect my style of play with me using the broadcast cam instead of the standard behind the QB camera.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

How does the tackle battle work when you're playing against the AI?

Also, could you go into more depth about things like what happens if you do things like press the wrong button during a tackle battle?

When against the AI, there's an amount of time that the prompt will be up before you lose the battle automatically. It's pretty quick for all players but the window will be reduced/might not come up at all for players in certain situations based on ratings.

If you press the wrong button you lose the battle and it's an instant tackle. So tapping the button prior to the battle starting is a non-starter.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

I don't like on screen aids, BUT as long as the tackle battle has multiple animations rather then just two of either getting tackled or breaking the tackle then I will be ok with it, but if its just a cut scene of the same animation every time there is a battle then I find it pointless and will get old quick.


Outside of that everything sounds promising, will be curious to see how the new running game will effect my style of play with me using the broadcast cam instead of the standard behind the QB camera.

It's definitely not a cut scene. Think about the tackle battle as replacing the dice roll in these situations. So if you lose, the tackle animation that would have played in that scenario plays out. If you win, the broken tackle animation that would have played in that scenario plays out.

[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

For anyone concerned about Tackle Battle turning into button mashing this is from someone who has played the game


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It's not the fact that it's a button press or mash, it's the fact that I want the ratings to determine who breaks tackles and who makes tackles, not a button that pops up on screen and breaks immersion. Say marshawn lynch gets in a tackle battle with a corner....why? Why should I have to hit a button to break that tackle when you already know he should break it.

I appreciate that they wanna make you feel involved once the animations start but idk.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

It's not the fact that it's a button press or mash, it's the fact that I want the ratings to determine who breaks tackles and who makes tackles, not a button that pops up on screen and breaks immersion. Say marshawn lynch gets in a tackle battle with a corner....why? Why should I have to hit a button to break that tackle when you already know he should break it.

I appreciate that they wanna make you feel involved once the animations start but idk.

That's the thing: he doesn't. Ratings determine the frequency of tackle battles. So if Marshawn goes against a run stopping LB with an equal tackle rating to his truck rating (or some variation of that), you'll get the battle. Against a small DB, he'll just run him over.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

That's the thing: he doesn't. Ratings determine the frequency of tackle battles. So if Marshawn goes against a run stopping LB with an equal tackle rating to his truck rating (or some variation of that), you'll get the battle. Against a small DB, he'll just run him over.

Exactly - I am seeing this TAckle BAttle as the user being able to break a "tie" between similar players, instead of having a random coin flip under the hood.

[Scott]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

You guys make it seem like every would be tackle will be a tackle battle.

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[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

You guys make it seem like every would be tackle will be a tackle battle.

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I mean technically every tackle is a battle(coin flip) they kid give some user input on some.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Clint is going to break down the feature in a blog soon but I do know he mentioned or someone as well as Mr Price about how a back like Lynch wouldn't be battling a CB.


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[brandon27]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Gameplay Deep Dive - Ball Carrier Special Moves

Really reminds me of the fight for the fumble mechanic

It does, and it doesn't to me.


Wasn't it APF by 2K, or was it even the last nfl2k game that allowed you to pound away on the A button to assist in breaking tackles. It's similar to that to me, but it's also giving the defense (in 2 player games) the chance to still make the hit and have some control over the situation too.


If it's simply whoever presses the right button first wins all the time... then I have a major problem with it. Just because you press the right button first, doesn't mean you should always win the battle, ratings should still prevail.


We've all seen it on Sundays where a LB wraps up the RB, surely looks like he's going down, but the RB somehow powers through. This gives an opportunity for that to actually happen, and not be completely decided by ratings and triggered animations. Gives the user some control. If it only happens in logical situations, where ratings are similar between the LB and RB, I'm ok with it.


For me, it all depends on how it's executed.

[Allball76]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Clint is going to break down the feature in a blog soon but I do know he mentioned or someone as well as Mr Price about how a back like Lynch wouldn't be battling a CB.


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I hear ya it don't sound bad at all , infact when you use a back and a line backer run at you before you Ingage you both are hit buttons right ? One spinning and or juking and the tackler diving or going for hit stick . Sound like it's just more user control to me to determines who wins based on ratings . The who game is hitting buttons .

[brandon27]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

As for the ball carrier moves etc...

I like it. I'm a bit concerned with how complex the control settings are getting though. That's a lot of button pushing, it is fairly straight forward though, so it shouldn't be too back.

The ability to have it full auto, "partial", and completely manual is just what we need for stuff like this though, so kudos to EA for that. Well done. There's a nice balance for all players offline.

I suspect I will play my first few games with some of the visual elements on, but in full manual mode just as a "tutorial" so to speak, but like most here, I don't want all those visual cues on the field. Just want them long enough to assist with understanding, and the timing.

Sounds like a really solid set of improvements though.