Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Great direction Rex keep up the good work ! As long as we keep getting real football concepts . I can't wait to hear the sim standard Thursday rex call in again . In Rex we trust (simulation football)!

Did he say he was calling in tomorrow? I must have missed that.

[KANE699]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Im pretty sure that's the case, they look good.

Yes some have been thickened, also the Revospeed Helmet was scanned, nice catch.

[Trick13]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Couple things.

Tackle Battle - kinda lost me there, I don't like games where you get random pop up icons, not ever, not in Far Cry, Die Hard, and I sure as heck don't want that kind of weak sauce in my football game. I miss the old leg drive thing where the defender was hitting the wrap up tackle button (or strip button if they were sneaky) and the runner was tapping sprint (as in keeping his legs churning). I thought it made sense in the context of the game and controls and did not require any icon to be displayed. It did need some serious tuning as it felt as though the ratings were not impacting the outcomes as much as button mashing. So far, this is the only "whoa, slow down with the Jack, Joe" type thing out of all I read.


Break Tackle - and, for that matter elusiveness - why are these still ratings??? I don't get it. A guy with high trucking and yet low stiff arm is likely in the NFL somewhere - so his truck rating should apply excliusively when that move is used, same for stiff arm - why is BRK Tackle still a thing when they should be using a lil physics and some strength for "ties" in such situations. Same thing for elusiveness, all players are rated in spin move and juke move, so why the need for elusiveness - It has not had any effect on the field since they took out the system in which the right stick moved up would result in different attempted tackle breaking moves where power backs would truck and little shifty cats would do this weird looking duck and slide deal. It seems to me that this is an area where either the ratings should have an impact that they don't (frustrating defenses with an E. Smith like quality of never being able to really square him up for a brutal hit "elusiveness"or Ahman Green - esque "pin-balling" through side hits and arm tackles) or they impact things that are already rated, in and of themselves, making these 2 ratings superfluous.

My feeling is they should be impacting the game in the way of the 2 examples I gave, which is to say that they would be under the hood type of things, the type of things that just happen because of the ratings and angles and balance and inherent awareness, vision, shiftiness type of things.

But either they need to have some meaningful impact or they need to be removed - and by meaningful I mean not as modifiers or averages of other ratings but as their own sub set of subtle animations or interactions.



Last, but not least - I was hoping to hear about what tools a defender may have in the open field - strafe to move shadowing - like tap the strafe to "break down" then tap tackle button to wrap, something, anything to give open field defenders a fighting chance, again based heavily on ratings with a timing element within there.


I do also wonder if defensive players will now rush the QB, rather than rush the blockers in the passing game - guess maybe another of the gameplay blogs will hopefully address that...

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Yes some have been thickened, also the Revospeed Helmet was scanned, nice catch.

So in theory perhaps there were other helmets you scanned? Maybe the Speedflex even?

[Sgexpat]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

all players are rated in spin move and juke move, so why the need for elusiveness - It has not had any effect on the field since they took out the system in which the right stick moved up would result in different attempted tackle breaking moves where power backs would truck and little shifty cats would do this weird looking duck and slide deal. It seems to me that this is an area where either the ratings should have an impact that they don't (frustrating defenses with an E. Smith like quality of never being able to really square him up for a brutal hit "elusiveness"or Ahman Green - esque "pin-balling" through side hits and arm tackles) or they impact things that are already rated, in and of themselves, making these 2 ratings superfluous.

I agree on the 1st part but let me take a stab at elusiveness. I am not sure that juking and spinning are all that make a carrier elusive. It seems that some guys even when running a single cut are able to make minor adjustments to get arm tackles to be just out of reach etc, which don't reach the level of user controlled juke moves.

I think of one long TD run by David Johnson on the cards last year when I think of ELU trait in Madden - he basically one cut through like 6 guys and took it all the way home. No spin or juke, but guys had their hands on him, he just was slippery.

OK, maybe its not a good theory here on why it should exist but its the best I've got

FWIW I found that to have the single biggest impact on my ypc in M'16 whereas truck did in M'15. That could also be style driven. I wasn't sure if you meant it did not have an affect much in Madden or just *should* not -- at least I see it does have a big effect now,

[Trick13]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

I agree on the 1st part but let me take a stab at elusiveness. I am not sure that juking and spinning are all that make a carrier elusive. It seems that some guys even when running a single cut are able to make minor adjustments to get arm tackles to be just out of reach etc, which don't reach the level of user controlled juke moves.

I think of one long TD run by David Johnson on the cards last year when I think of ELU trait in Madden - he basically one cut through like 6 guys and took it all the way home. No spin or juke, but guys had their hands on him, he just was slippery.

OK, maybe its not a good theory here on why it should exist but its the best I've got

FWIW I found that to have the single biggest impact on my ypc in M'16 whereas truck did in M'15. That could also be style driven. I wasn't sure if you meant it did not have an affect much in Madden or just *should* not -- at least I see it does have a big effect now,

OK, fair explanation, but I would say that you had that one cut ability as a user in the "glory days" (PS2) with "cut moves" which I would still love to see that old control layout return, where stiff arm (switch hand) was directional, jukes were a product of timing both on the field and the RB/LB buttons in which tapping one gave you a 30 degree directional change, and then the longer you held it the more hop like jukes took place and rapi succession of the buttons gave you an incredibly smooth shoulder shake and cut deal that was just magical if you pulled it off - magical, not only because it was difficult to do, but also because it looked so much like what players actually do on Sundays.

Now they said speed moves are supposed to be subtle so maybe the "cut move" makes a glorious return, but I still say that "ELU/BKT" - as they currently are handled is goofy...


And I guess, I would rather handle the subtle moves manually than have the ball carrier vision rating dictating spin moves and hop cuts behind the LOS - That stuff is all well and good, except when I am having to steer blockers because they move (hopefully have in the past moved) as though they are Vulcan mind melded with a RB they can't see...

[KANE699]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

So in theory perhaps there were other helmets you scanned? Maybe the Speedflex even?

All the gloves and shoes you've seen have been scanned, so there's that.....

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

All the gloves and shoes you've seen have been scanned, so there's that.....

That's good to hear

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Break Tackle - and, for that matter elusiveness - why are these still ratings???

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen the "Break Tackle" rating in Madden NFL in years. Rather the ballcarrier rating categories for a while now have been Ball Carrier Vision, Carrying, Trucking, Elusiveness, Stiff Arm, Spin Move, and Juke Move.

As to Elusiveness, that is a technical skill that professional football scouts actually grade separate from lateral and radial agility (which are quantified in real life via the shuttle and 3-cone combine drills), so the rating's place in the game is easily justifiable.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

All the gloves and shoes you've seen have been scanned, so there's that.....

I could be wrong but that Jonathan Stewart pic looks so clean it got me wondering, were jerseys scanned too?

[Trick13]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen the "Break Tackle" rating in Madden NFL in years. Rather the ballcarrier rating categories for a while now have been Ball Carrier Vision, Carrying, Trucking, Elusiveness, Stiff Arm, Spin Move, and Juke Move.

As to Elusiveness, that is a technical skill that professional football scouts actually grade separate from lateral and radial agility (which are quantified in real life via the shuttle and 3-cone combine drills), so the rating's place in the game is easily justifiable.

I do believe that you are half correct - No argument from me on the elusiveness being an actual scouted "technical skill"

But, BTK still shows up for some reason in certain menus - it is no longer (maybe never was) available to upgrade in XP deal, but it appears in roster management and I am curios as to why.

I still maintain that for the experienced Madden player, ELU should be a result of following blockers, agility, acc, and FINGERS CROSSED subtle cut moves and your own execution of these attributes via timing and so forth coupled with the ball carriers abilities or limitations ( ie ratings).

I would also absolutely throw a huge raging party if the ball carrier and the blockers were finally disconnected. Meaning, when I turn left as the HB or kick returner, the blockers who can not see me turn left should continue on their path to their assignment (be it a defender or a lane/area) without any reaction to that turn - because well frankly they just should not be able to as they don't have rear view mirrors in helmets that I am aware of...

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

Couple things.

Tackle Battle - kinda lost me there, I don't like games where you get random pop up icons, not ever, not in Far Cry, Die Hard, and I sure as heck don't want that kind of weak sauce in my football game. I miss the old leg drive thing where the defender was hitting the wrap up tackle button (or strip button if they were sneaky) and the runner was tapping sprint (as in keeping his legs churning). I thought it made sense in the context of the game and controls and did not require any icon to be displayed. It did need some serious tuning as it felt as though the ratings were not impacting the outcomes as much as button mashing. So far, this is the only "whoa, slow down with the Jack, Joe" type thing out of all I read.


Break Tackle - and, for that matter elusiveness - why are these still ratings??? I don't get it. A guy with high trucking and yet low stiff arm is likely in the NFL somewhere - so his truck rating should apply excliusively when that move is used, same for stiff arm - why is BRK Tackle still a thing when they should be using a lil physics and some strength for "ties" in such situations. Same thing for elusiveness, all players are rated in spin move and juke move, so why the need for elusiveness - It has not had any effect on the field since they took out the system in which the right stick moved up would result in different attempted tackle breaking moves where power backs would truck and little shifty cats would do this weird looking duck and slide deal. It seems to me that this is an area where either the ratings should have an impact that they don't (frustrating defenses with an E. Smith like quality of never being able to really square him up for a brutal hit "elusiveness"or Ahman Green - esque "pin-balling" through side hits and arm tackles) or they impact things that are already rated, in and of themselves, making these 2 ratings superfluous.

My feeling is they should be impacting the game in the way of the 2 examples I gave, which is to say that they would be under the hood type of things, the type of things that just happen because of the ratings and angles and balance and inherent awareness, vision, shiftiness type of things.

But either they need to have some meaningful impact or they need to be removed - and by meaningful I mean not as modifiers or averages of other ratings but as their own sub set of subtle animations or interactions.



Last, but not least - I was hoping to hear about what tools a defender may have in the open field - strafe to move shadowing - like tap the strafe to "break down" then tap tackle button to wrap, something, anything to give open field defenders a fighting chance, again based heavily on ratings with a timing element within there.


I do also wonder if defensive players will now rush the QB, rather than rush the blockers in the passing game - guess maybe another of the gameplay blogs will hopefully address that...

Break Tackle? Where is that rating?

Hopefully blocking footwork and strength will be used throughout M17, to further separate players..

Elusiveness is something that I don't believe can be taught and is just what a player has, in madden and in the NFL, but in madden it seems to be the "slipperiness" of any player when they are not making a special move, so it appears to have an impact in game; I have seen some elusive moves without me doing a spin or cut..

SInce I am not sure how all attributes are tied together, I am just speculating, brainstorming ideas; I do prefer the use of many ratings, over just having something like 8 basic ratings such as back in Football Pro 98

[jpdavis82]

Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

For anyone concerned about Tackle Battle turning into button mashing this is from someone who has played the game


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dr. Poe]

Button mashing. Madden arcade. Keep it simple EA.

[therealsmallville]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Ball Carrier Special Moves, Fakeout Interaction System & Much More

All this talk about the Tackle Battle button prompt breaking immersion...wanna know what breaks immersion for me? Having my drafted RB, a love-child of Marshawn Lynch & Jerome Bettis, fall over every single time someone sneezes on him in a 1 on 1 open field tackle. That takes me out of the game everytime to see my bruiser RB struggle with 1 defender.

If "Tackle Battles" finally gives my guy a fair shot at going "Beast Mode" occasionally, then sign me right up. As long as it's tuned correctly and you can't break every tackle all game long, then I'm good to go. I'm a simhead, but that relates to how I play & how the AI plays. I'm already holding a controller, what's one more button?