NBA 2K17 Trailer - "The Dream Lives On"

[23]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - "The Dream Lives On"

Dude are you even reading my whole post or just stopping when you see something you want to comment on?

The definition of critical: expressing or involving an analysis of the merits and faults of a work of literature, music, or art.

So yes some of you are more critical than some like me. I'm not saying that it's and issue or that it's a negative quality (if you read my whole post you would see I compliment people like you) just stating a fact. Some of you pick up on things like jersey collars and shoulders being off, shoes being inaccurate, a player's legs not being right, etc. Things like this go by me. Maybe I'm not as observant, maybe I just don't care enough (Truthfully a combo of both) but we just share different views on this stuff.

Yes I read it and I understand.

I just don't feel pointing out something obviously off is being critical, although you're right many people here are way critical of stuff.


Like... when the real complaints start rolling in, most of us you see now aren't involved in that. There is usually an influx of new posters and onliners who have all the complaints in the world.

This is just something we've talked about for a couple of years but the more the game improves the more it sticks out.

[JODYE]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - "The Dream Lives On"

*Yawn*

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[ChrisBurnette68]

After the wait we've had in just thankful we got something! This looks great. You can tell they are still pushing the envelope graphically when they really don't need to. No sports game looks better. Great job 2k, I'm just hoping they've made the necessary tweaks to gameplay, customization, etc. but either way I'm buying. Only 37 days!

[MBhoops]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &quot;The Dream Lives On&quot;

I have two complaints.

1. Jerseys are terrible. Too thick. Bulky. Look stuck on.

2. Not american enough.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &quot;The Dream Lives On&quot;

But my thinking is that there is some kind of issue between the players that are face scanned (modern players) and the players that aren't (mostly legends). The scanned players typically look great whether emoting or not. The legends tend to look awkward especially when emoting or showing facial movements.

I have no idea what type of technology 2k uses for the faces or how art is done for their faces but it's clear that there is something off when it comes to the legends (though there are some that look pretty accurate). Seeing as how the legends, particularly Jordan, looked better last gen I feel like there is some type of issue in translating these faces with the new tech.

It doesn't matter if the person is scanned or a 3D artist sits down to model a players face using a front and side view. In order to animate the character, the artist or computer program still needs to retopology or create a topology (or proper mesh/grid) for the model so that the model can be rigged for animation. The end result is to create "facial bone movers (armatures)" so that the animator can do his/her work. And this definitely does not require changes to the 3D model.

It honestly comes down to the graphic modeler on 2k's team when we're talking about legends and players they haven't scanned. It boils down to the talents execution. You don't need to fiddle with someone's face to make the animations work.

Did you watch the video in the above link. You don't need to deform someones natural emotionless face to get them to properly animate. The 3D modeler doesn't model a character around how the rigger/animator chooses to animate the character. The rigger/animator needs to work with the presented character model.

Plus, Clyde Drexler looks more like Clyde Drexler than Jordan does Jordan. Ask yourself this question, why do some legends resemble themselves more than others. If it's a matter of rigging their face for animation, then ALL legends should look like Jordan with big ears and completely off. It comes down to the talent of the 3D modeler and how he/she models the legends.

[2_headedmonster]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &quot;The Dream Lives On&quot;

I honestly want 2k to show me Iverson for the hell of it....he looked so bad i refused to use him or allow anyone to pick that team lol. Im not even a crazy iverson fan, but it was disrespectful to play with that grey haired troll.

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &quot;The Dream Lives On&quot;

Can somebody tell me why we're all so focused on the little things? This is a legitimate question, and I'm not trying to sound like an *** hole, but everybody's saying stuff like:
- The crowd isn't realistic
- The jerseys aren't the right shade of white
- they're necks aren't quite long enough

Why aren't we focusing on the content or the new gamemodes? *I know 2k hasn't made it easy because they really haven't told us anything* but it seems like people are more invested in the little things we won't even notice while playing, instead of the content that will keep people playing for another few months people choose to focus on what's more pleasing to the eye when they are look at replays or whatever.

Anyway, that trailer was pretty underwhelming.

The crowds (and the arena atmosphere in general) have been an issue for a few years now in 2K. The jerseys and body types have also been issues in the past.

Those things -- for some, not all, mind -- really help with the immersion. The dead crowds, in particular, really bother me; when I hit a clutch shot at the end and have the players on the floor celebrating, but have the crowd not reacting at all, that's a problem. It's a problem I can get past, but in this day and age we shouldn't have arenas playing generic crowd soundtracks that 2K captured in a booth 10 years ago.

The jerseys, similarly, should be more advanced then they are. There are multiple other AAA titles that get how to do clothing well and they display a far greater variety than 2K does in a basketball game.

The player body types are equally distracting -- Bubba Gump MJ the latest iteration of this particular issue.

It boils down to immersion, really. For some of us, these things really distract from the game. It's not as though we're asking the world of 2K at this point -- we're in 2016. They've been next-gen since 2K14. Some of these issues were bound to come up in transitioning to a new era of consoles, but we're firmly in the mid-life cycle of the new consoles and we're still seeing these same problems crop up.

Rather than focusing on adding new gamemodes, some of us would like to see 2K tighten their focus on the lingering issues surrounding the game. I'd rather they correct the flaws they currently have rather than adding in new content, thereby creating potential new flaws.

[scottyp180]

Yes I read it and I understand.

I just don't feel pointing out something obviously off is being critical, although you're right many people here are way critical of stuff.


Like... when the real complaints start rolling in, most of us you see now aren't involved in that. There is usually an influx of new posters and onliners who have all the complaints in the world.

This is just something we've talked about for a couple of years but the more the game improves the more it sticks out.

True point. Again not using critical as a negative, maybe observant is a better word to use. And trust me I appreciate the insight people like you have. You guys push 2k to pay attention to details and not settle for "good enough".

"I just don't feel pointing out something obviously off is being critical"

You're right just know that something that's obvious to you might not be as obvious to others. Like you pointed out issues with the jerseys and shoulders. I would have never noticed that if you didn't point it out and the look of jerseys is one of the graphical issues I've had with the game over the years (the textures still don't look right).

Oh and once the "real" complaints start coming in I start to stray away from the boards. I swear each year the game drops there is some sort of "this game is broken" thread. Honestly the negativity sometimes causes me to question my own outlook of the game. I start to wonder if I'm just naive for enjoying the game or if people are just taking their complaints to the extreme.

[23]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &quot;The Dream Lives On&quot;

True point. Again not using critical as a negative, maybe observant is a better word to use. And trust me I appreciate the insight people like you have. You guys push 2k to pay attention to details and not settle for "good enough".

"I just don't feel pointing out something obviously off is being critical"

You're right just know that something that's obvious to you might not be as obvious to others. Like you pointed out issues with the jerseys and shoulders. I would have never noticed that if you didn't point it out and the look of jerseys is one of the graphical issues I've had with the game over the years (the textures still don't look right).

Oh and once the "real" complaints start coming in I start to stray away from the boards. I swear each year the game drops there is some sort of "this game is broken" thread. Honestly the negativity sometimes causes me to question my own outlook of the game. I start to wonder if I'm just naive for enjoying the game or if people are just taking their complaints to the extreme.

I can say that this has been noticed because the jerseys are too big and have been for a long time.

That's pretty much what i pointed out.... as well as the running back shoulders as a result of having to 'fit' it in the oversized uniform.

Honestly 2k has had player models with big oversized shoulders since the original NBA2k, and it was even more obvious last year when they posted pics of Durant and Chris Paul who were freaking huge.


Then you can't tell me you look at Rondo and think to yourself, yep, that's just how he looks, and nothing looks weird.

Spoiler

btw, most of the guys enjoying the game usually runs away and not post but the only issue with that is you allow the gripers to get the say so in what happens with those patches and it ruins your experience.

In the last bit i dont get why we cant get enough people like you to join in the threads that we start where it's "what they did right" so they'll know to keep it in

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &quot;The Dream Lives On&quot;

Oh and once the "real" complaints start coming in I start to stray away from the boards. I swear each year the game drops there is some sort of "this game is broken" thread. Honestly the negativity sometimes causes me to question my own outlook of the game. I start to wonder if I'm just naive for enjoying the game or if people are just taking their complaints to the extreme.

So true. I'll stick to the highlights or team creation threads to see the amazing things people are doing with the game.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &amp;quot;The Dream Lives On&amp;quot;

True point. Again not using critical as a negative, maybe observant is a better word to use. And trust me I appreciate the insight people like you have. You guys push 2k to pay attention to details and not settle for "good enough".

"I just don't feel pointing out something obviously off is being critical"

You're right just know that something that's obvious to you might not be as obvious to others. Like you pointed out issues with the jerseys and shoulders. I would have never noticed that if you didn't point it out and the look of jerseys is one of the graphical issues I've had with the game over the years (the textures still don't look right).

Oh and once the "real" complaints start coming in I start to stray away from the boards. I swear each year the game drops there is some sort of "this game is broken" thread. Honestly the negativity sometimes causes me to question my own outlook of the game. I start to wonder if I'm just naive for enjoying the game or if people are just taking their complaints to the extreme.

Get what you're saying here....

You could offer me 1M to name all the accessories the Spurs players wear and id miss out on that $.....and I watched 80 games last year [emoji38]

I bet an accessory head whos not even a Spurs fan could nail every one though....different guys are into different things and have an eye for it...one of the first things I learned about these parts..

and theres nothing wrong with that...

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &quot;The Dream Lives On&quot;

I can say that this has been noticed because the jerseys are too big and have been for a long time.

That's pretty much what i pointed out.... as well as the running back shoulders as a result of having to 'fit' it in the oversized uniform.

Honestly 2k has had player models with big oversized shoulders since the original NBA2k, and it was even more obvious last year when they posted pics of Durant and Chris Paul who were freaking huge.


Then you can't tell me you look at Rondo and think to yourself, yep, that's just how he looks, and nothing looks weird.

Spoiler

btw, most of the guys enjoying the game usually runs away and not post but the only issue with that is you allow the gripers to get the say so in what happens with those patches and it ruins your experience.

In the last bit i dont get why we cant get enough people like you to join in the threads that we start where it's "what they did right" so they'll know to keep it in

Not to jump in the middle, I see both sides of the argument and am more on his side because all that doesn't really matter to me. I guess I don't sit in replay starting at Rajon Rondo's jersey or see that angle enough for it to really be a big deal to me.

Obviously would be nice to have it corrected and I can see how it would irk some people.

[BA2929]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &quot;The Dream Lives On&quot;

See how Pau Gasol has lean muscle in his shoulder?

If 2k has gotten so far that we're complaining/criticizing about not enough "lean muscle" in the shoulder then I think they've actually achieved the pinnacle of sports gaming.



Talking about velvet jerseys is one thing, but criticizing shoulder muscle definition is something I thought I'd never see.

PS: Dream Team looks pretty good. Jordan looks off but loving how Pippen and Ewing look. Can't wait to try them out, even if it's just in Play Now.

[scottyp180]

It doesn't matter if the person is scanned or a 3D artist sits down to model a players face using a front and side view. In order to animate the character, the artist or computer program still needs to retopology or create a topology (or proper mesh/grid) for the model so that the model can be rigged for animation. The end result is to create "facial bone movers (armatures)" so that the animator can do his/her work. And this definitely does not require changes to the 3D model.

It honestly comes down to the graphic modeler on 2k's team when we're talking about legends and players they haven't scanned. It boils down to the talents execution. You don't need to fiddle with someone's face to make the animations work.

Did you watch the video in the above link. You don't need to deform someones natural emotionless face to get them to properly animate. The 3D modeler doesn't model a character around how the rigger/animator chooses to animate the character. The rigger/animator needs to work with the presented character model.

Plus, Clyde Drexler looks more like Clyde Drexler than Jordan does Jordan. Ask yourself this question, why do some legends resemble themselves more than others. If it's a matter of rigging their face for animation, then ALL legends should look like Jordan with big ears and completely off. It comes down to the talent of the 3D modeler and how he/she models the legends.

Sorry didn't watch the videos yet, havent had a chance to sit and watch yet. But your explanation has definitely improved my understanding. It does make me wonder how the legends are handled. Maybe there a multiple artists, 3d modelers working on legends resulting in some looking better than others? Not sure.

The positive thing though is that they are atleast still working on legends. Legend faces have improved since 2k14 on next gen so it's not like they are completely ignoring the complaints.

[23]

Re: NBA 2K17 Trailer - &quot;The Dream Lives On&quot;

Not to jump in the middle, I see both sides of the argument and am more on his side because all that doesn't really matter to me. I guess I don't sit in replay starting at Rajon Rondo's jersey or see that angle enough for it to really be a big deal to me.

Obviously would be nice to have it corrected and I can see how it would irk some people.

It's not just Rondo, that's the problem

When I see guys complaining about court/player size ration which is scaled 1:1 already I know what part of the issue is, because the new offenses helped the spacing tremendously already.

If you have no interest in the particulars of why something needs to be fixed, then it makes no sense to be in the discussion. (in general, not you in particular)

There are things people are pointing out to make the game better, not to bash on 2K.

I don't come here all year starting threads about nothing every week. My 2 issues was Audio and atmosphere which was explained by someone earlier, and art assets.

Its hard to watch a basketball game then come on 2k and hear the same sounds that was in NBA2k and NBA2k1... the crowd not cheering until the last 5 minutes of the game, and the audio being completely butchered.

There are many departments that make this game, its not just "the devs"... that entails a lot.

Some of us point out things depending on if we think they may have time to work on it if they arent already. They may know because they're smart people, very smart.

This trailer was all visual so of course people are going to talk about that.