Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

[T4VERTS]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Verts are you going to do any more interviews with him before launch? Or with Rex?

Was curious if you could bring up the QB scrambling or sensing pressure and trying to avoid sacks? Mobile QB's scrambling when under pressure, Pocket QB's throwing or atleast attempting the throw the ball away.

I am working on one with John White. I may see about doing one more with Rex before the game officially drops, but I know Access week gets crazy. I think one of them did mention they were going to look into the scrambling and see whats going on. I think by their response they are supposed to be moving.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

They are doing it in other positions too. We get into it later after talking about it with DL,

Well I can't wait for that podcast and to hear about this one! It's been a legacy issue forever and man nearly unplayable except here and there because Elite CB's get burnt all day. Plus I noticed they really spread out their man and zone coverage ratings this year (Lower than normal). I really like your inteviews though! Good Stuff!

[roadman]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Verts are you going to do any more interviews with him before launch? Or with Rex?

Was curious if you could bring up the QB scrambling or sensing pressure and trying to avoid sacks? Mobile QB's scrambling when under pressure, Pocket QB's throwing or atleast attempting the throw the ball away.

Clint is aware of it, it's in his Twitter feed.

Just a concern I noticed: it appears that CPU qbs do not move in the pocket or scramble. Is there a tuning that can fix it?

We're looking at that

[extremeskins04]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Clint is aware of it, it's in his Twitter feed.

Just a concern I noticed: it appears that CPU qbs do not move in the pocket or scramble. Is there a tuning that can fix it?

We're looking at that

Awesome

[TarHeelPhenom]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Can someone break down what it means as far as ratings being "Delta" driven?

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Very interesting explanation as to why defensive tackle's were allowed to run down quarterbacks escaping the pocket. Makes you wonder how much old code may be in there mucking up the works.

For anyone who didn't listen. They found out that someone added a piece of "code" that scaled a player's speed to give him an unnatural boost if he was ever part of the pass rush. Seems it was another one of those band aides from years back to help out the pass rush.

[OhMrHanky]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Can someone break down what it means as far as ratings being "Delta" driven?

I can try. Let's say u have an OL and a DL fighting. The O has 90 PBK, the D has 90 power move.
The delta here is 0
90-90 = 0
In this case, the formula for win/loss is "even" or "normal" u could say, and it plays out that way. Not sure if that absolutely means 50/50, but I could take it that way for this example.

What if O is 90 and D is 95? Now, the delta is +5 for D
95-90 = 5
Now, u plug that +5 into the formula, and now the D has a 75/25 chance of a win or something.

Then, maybe a +6 has 80/20 or something.

As opposed to maybe some other type of formula where 95 succeeds 30% of the time all the time or something.

Instead, everything is "delta" driven. So, madden is always looking for the 'difference' between certain ratings between O and D in any given situation.


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[khaliib]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Can someone break down what it means as far as ratings being "Delta" driven?

"O" beat me to the explanation, lol

In a nutshell, the point spread between two interacting ratings, with higher having an increased chance within the formulas they use.
Ex:
- 75 RBK vs 88 BSH
- 13 pt Delta
- BSH having an increased chance of win (not 100% just because higher, just increased chance)
- the bigger the Delta, the more an outcome will happen

***he gives an example in T4VERTS interview using JJ Watt going against a weaker Blocker with lower ratings, it's the increased Delta favored towards Watts high interacting ratings vs low PBK/RBK

Also the reason TE's were constantly open vs LB's.
Because their Route Run rating created a bigger Delta vs MCV ratings.
- TE's Route Run 70+ vs LB's 50 MCV
- with an avg 20 pt Delta, we can see what drove these outcomes making everyone mad.

With this, you can create your own scale (i.e. 10, 20, 30 pt Delta etc...) between interacting ratings to further establish Player Differentiation to your liking.

You can create your own Gold, Silver, Bronze levels or an A-F scale if you want.

Just got to know what ratings do and how they interact with each other.

[OhMrHanky]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I like the dev team. Clint's cool. I dig Rex. It's all good and I appreciate his answers and explanation of things. But, I'm still worried about the zones. Lol. I'm not buying till reg season or later, however, so I've got some wait time to think about it or see a patch, maybe. But, we'll see. Maybe ea access will show me something unexpected.


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[roadman]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I like the dev team. Clint's cool. I dig Rex. It's all good and I appreciate his answers and explanation of things. But, I'm still worried about the zones. Lol. I'm not buying till reg season or later, however, so I've got some wait time to think about it or see a patch, maybe. But, we'll see. Maybe ea access will show me something unexpected.


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At least they appear to be addressing the two main items noticed in the videos.

Now, we find out how it all pans out.

[T4VERTS]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

At least they appear to be addressing the two main items noticed in the videos.

Now, we find out how it all pans out.

One thing about this dev team is they are tapped into the community. If they don't make a change you got to believe there is a reason, because they know the communities thoughts on it for sure.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I disagree with the whole 'have to play it before you critique it' idea. If I go and watch 8+ videos of gameplay ranging from 15-30 minutes long each, and see the same recurring issues, I think I have the right to say 'You should fix this.' The coverage fixes he describes, I'm just not seeing. Guys still play way off the receivers in the flats. Still don't know how to cover a running back coming out of the backfield. Still sit too far off receivers in most zones. I'm still seeing the same money routes be money in all the footage so far. Guys getting destroyed in man every play. It didn't look like this during the 2-6 minute clips that we got from EA Play and E3. In those clips, coverage looked much improved. Guys actively defended zones instead of passively sitting in the center waiting for a guy to catch the ball. Flats were being covered. What happened?


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I agree with you. We've been playing Madden for years and it doesn't take much for us to see the legacy issues. For example, I can still see players sliding into position, which is a long standing issue

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[Bootzilla]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I disagree with the whole 'have to play it before you critique it' idea. If I go and watch 8+ videos of gameplay ranging from 15-30 minutes long each, and see the same recurring issues, I think I have the right to say 'You should fix this.' The coverage fixes he describes, I'm just not seeing. Guys still play way off the receivers in the flats. Still don't know how to cover a running back coming out of the backfield. Still sit too far off receivers in most zones. I'm still seeing the same money routes be money in all the footage so far. Guys getting destroyed in man every play. It didn't look like this during the 2-6 minute clips that we got from EA Play and E3. In those clips, coverage looked much improved. Guys actively defended zones instead of passively sitting in the center waiting for a guy to catch the ball. Flats were being covered. What happened?


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The zones worry me. But man to man is also troublesome. When I saw Chris Harris Jr. getting torched in one of the videos I could tell man coverage is still an issue.

Any inside breaking route is still instant separation. Hopefully shading works better and bump and run mechanics improve.

Ratings in Madden 17 did not matter one bit in terms of man press. Any receiver regardless of "Delta" could beat press and get over the top of corners with the highest press and man ratings. Concerned this has not been adequately addressed in 18.

[howboutdat]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I disagree with the whole 'have to play it before you critique it' idea. If I go and watch 8+ videos of gameplay ranging from 15-30 minutes long each, and see the same recurring issues, I think I have the right to say 'You should fix this.' The coverage fixes he describes, I'm just not seeing. Guys still play way off the receivers in the flats. Still don't know how to cover a running back coming out of the backfield. Still sit too far off receivers in most zones. I'm still seeing the same money routes be money in all the footage so far. Guys getting destroyed in man every play. It didn't look like this during the 2-6 minute clips that we got from EA Play and E3. In those clips, coverage looked much improved. Guys actively defended zones instead of passively sitting in the center waiting for a guy to catch the ball. Flats were being covered. What happened?


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I really find this statement , "not that many people have played it"," so we cant tell anything until we play it " excuse. Sorry but that is what this is. An excuse. Is he calling all the people who played it at EA Play , and then some of those same people played it last week and they all calling out the same issue?? I mean , come on man.That type a thing is not just happen stance.If only 1 or two said it, ok maybe happen stance, but when it seems pretty much everyone who played it last week feels this way . I mean please stop trying to downplay this issue. It does not instill confidence in it getting fixed anytime soon .


Also , if you dont trust the opinion and " feel" from people who your company paid to fly out there, put them up in a room , and let them capture this footage to show the world. Why are they being brought down there? I have no issue with the company doing this, i understand it, but its kinda like your saying, we dont trust what they have to say about the game. Which to me is kinda odd. The zones ( and seems man) coverages needs fixing.If you want an offensive game, make that arcade mode, but not sim mode please.

[khaliib]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I really find this statement , "not that many people have played it"," so we cant tell anything until we play it " excuse. Sorry but that is what this is. An excuse. Is he calling all the people who played it at EA Play , and then some of those same people played it last week and they all calling out the same issue?? I mean , come on man.That type a thing is not just happen stance.If only 1 or two said it, ok maybe happen stance, but when it seems pretty much everyone who played it last week feels this way . I mean please stop trying to downplay this issue. It does not instill confidence in it getting fixed anytime soon .


Also , if you dont trust the opinion and " feel" from people who your company paid to fly out there, put them up in a room , and let them capture this footage to show the world. Why are they being brought down there? I have no issue with the company doing this, i understand it, but its kinda like your saying, we dont trust what they have to say about the game. Which to me is kinda odd. The zones ( and seems man) coverages needs fixing.If you want an offensive game, make that arcade mode, but not sim mode please.

I think most here can agree that gameplay in Practice Mode plays different than Play Now, and gameplay in Play Now plays different from CFM.

There was no gameplay inside CFM at EA Play, and most GC's who went down to the capture probably did Gameplay outside of CFM.

We haven't seen a lot of CFM gameplay footage, not to say something is/isn't happening in CFM also, but I'm just thinking with little CFM footage, wouldn't any "Sim" player want to see what's going on inside CFM and not jump so quickly on the "patch this, fix that" bandwagon of what's being seen in vid's of a bunch of Play Now games?

There's been this whole debate on Comp vs Sim preferences going on.

Are you asking them to tinker/tune/patch based on what's going on in videos of mostly Play Now games?

I don't want anything touched dealing with CFM based on what may/may not be occuring outside that mode.

If you are a "Sim" player who spends most of gameplay inside CFM, when you hear "play it first or play it for yourself", you should be screaming with your loudest voice, yes!!!

You should want to get your hands on it first before they start monkeying around inside the mode.

There's no one who can decide my Madden experience better than me, and I do not want them tinkering with the mode I play in (CFM) based on someone else's interpretations who plays outside the mode.

The alternative is to let Play Now players speak/decide the changes in CFM.

"We" (CFM) now have the abitlity to have the game looked at from our perspective.

If those same issues occur inside CFM, then let's deal with them.
But let any changes be based on "CFM players" seeing these occurnces "inside" CFM.

So yeah, you should agree to hold off making changes that could affect CFM until you play for yourself because one tweak can have a huge ripple affect inside CFM that Play Now gamers don't/won't have to deal with.