Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

[Impetuous65]

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[GudStuffzz]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

Online MyLeague

[Cleve07103]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

Does defensive A.C.E. go off of the defensive personal or the offensive personal

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[FixEverything2k]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

Fastbreak Offense AI:
Is DeAndre Jordan sprinting to the corner 3 again instead of trailing for the lob?

Fastbreak Defense AI:
Are defenders going to stop and turn around upon touching the free throw line while chasing the offensive player on the fastbreak?

[MarkWilliam]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

Interesting thread. I actually hadn't thought about what I want to hear (aside from the obvious - defensive AI disaster that was 2K17 and the improvements for 2K18). I usually just sit back and enjoy when these 2 guys blog.

Just throwing one in, it'd be nice to see if plays out of timeouts are a little more comprehensive this year. Definitely not a priority of mine though. As a priority, we NEED the defensive AI to be better - specifically for PnR weak side help/rotations or 2K18 will not last long for me.

[RainZ]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

I mainly just want to know how the new movement system is going to help with the Defensive AI of your teammates...

Will they actually be able to fight around basic screens and stick with their man?

Or will it still be like playing a pickup game with non basketball players, with your AI teammates getting beaten on every simple back pick/backdoor cut to the hoop...

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

I'm hoping they either directly or indirectly address four things:

(1) Defensive vision artificial intelligence - Help defense AI both cpu and user teammate

(2) Predictable animations' artificial intelligence

(3) Shot clock artificial offensive intelligence (cpu)

(4) Psychic Steal animations artificial intelligence

Spoiler tag below includes animated gifs to showcase exactly what I mean.


Two real life animated NBA gifs, all defenders are aware of the ball handler, and they're "cheating" towards the ball handler but still are within arms' reach of their own man, all of the other 4 off-ball Warriors could clamp down any minute if necessary, potentially available to give help defense despite not actually committing to help defense at all during the play. I want to actually see this in NBA2k18 because I've never seen this in 2k basketball.

Unless there's a setting already in the game that I don't know about. The two gifs below, everyone is aware of the ball handler and has an eye and is within reach of their own man. Watch their arm tracking their own man, head tracking the ball handler, head tracking the ball handler's potential to attack the basket or pass the ball.

Defensive vision - Help defense AI both cpu and user teammate

Help defensive AI for both cpu and user teammate. Not sure what the exact terminology is but I would like to see off ball defensive teammates knowing when to "cheat" or I would like to see them "cheating" on defense while keep arms length reach with their own man, especially if they're within the vicinity of the ball handler. I want the off-ball defender (both cpu and user) to know when to attempt swipes and rotate when necessary. I want the off-ball defender to have proper awareness and vision to leave their man but still have the awareness to recover. Because as of right now, the help/cheat awareness in 2k17 is lacking. There's really no help/cheating help defense. It's always seems to be man on man.

Everyone is playing straight up, plus there really is no "headtracking peripheral vision awareness of the ball handler" I would like to see more "cheating" defense going on, arms within reach. Not exactly sure if "cheating" is the appropriate terminology, but hopefully you know what I'm trying to get at.

Here, all the defenders' seems to be in their own little world of just strictly guarding their man. I'm hoping 2k18's artificial defensive intelligence will show (as well as visually with player head tracking) peripheral awareness and maintain awareness of where the ball handler is, as well as arm tracking their own man.

SPOILER TAG

Spoiler

Here, I'm trying to get the defender directly next to the on-ball defender to swipe at the ball or at least "cheat" but still keeping an arms length of his man. But nothing.

Here, notice how Austin Rivers walks directly between the defender and Curry, and Austin Rivers makes absolutely no attempt to swipe at the ball. But more importantly, he doesn't attempt to "cheat/help" towards Curry to decrease the gap. But honestly, who actually walks in between the ball handler and defender?

Here, notice the guy guarding Durant walks in between Klay and Austin Rivers. The guy makes absolutely no attempt to swipe at the ball. Also after walking between Klay and Austin, the defender/guy makes no attempt to "cheat" towards Klay. Again, who actually walks in between the ball handler and defender?

Here, Draymond Green is defending the post. Green has a very high defensive awareness. I am hoping 2k18 will address this scenario with the "vision/awareness" thing that they're talking about. Green would have kept an eye on the "play/scenario" and seen the ball get passed off, ultimately with the guy driving the paint. I'm hoping Green would have properly rotated off/defensive awareness instead of getting "stuck in that post defense animation."

Predictable Animations

Here's an example of a predictable animation set. I can see the off ball screen from a mile away. I would liken to have seen different possibilities come out of that off ball corner play. I would like to see a greater variety of animation for the same exact play so it makes it much, much more difficult for the user to "read" these "predictable animations"

In addition to these predictable animations, notice how every one of the defender are always playing their man only, no real "cheating" defense/help defense going on.

Shot Clock winding down awareness artificial intelligence

I love playing defense, on-ball defense and when necessary off-ball defense. Whenever I am able to lock the cpu up (hall of fame), as the shot clock is winding down, some of the teams have no clue what else to do other than pass the ball around the perimeter back and forth, ultimately resulting in someone (non-3 point shooter or even a 3 point shooter) taking a 3 point shot.

Defensive AI steals -

Steals looks too choreographed sometimes, especially with the gif below. Yes, I was testing out the CPU steal animation. It just looks incredibly awkwardly "physic" that the defender is standing in the exact spot without ever having to move to make a steal. This is something that just looks completely off and I wish their upcoming blog on AI might address it, if not, I'm hoping 2k18 will do a better job animating actual steals so they don't look so "psychic." I don't have a problem with the steal, but the whole animation sequence just looks off.

EDIT: 8/28/17 ... I'm adding the following concerns to this post because it's something that also applies

2k Special Guest Kobe and Garnett
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O1IcK-5cWQY" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

But some concerns I have from the video.
(1) Player floor position awareness and the lack of "cheating" "anticipatory help" defense.
(2) Isolation plays
(3) Crossover dribble drives.


Click on spoiler tag to see gifs and examples of my concerns.

Spoiler

(1) Player floor position awareness and the lack of "cheating" "anticipatory help" defense. So my number concern has been the defenders simply playing too close to their man on the perimeter during certain sequences and but more importantly not really providing "cheating" or proper anticipatory "help" defense.

Example is the post game from the video:
Joel Embiid in the post. All defenders are simply focused on their man, especially the defenders at the top of the three. With the exception of the corner three defenders, the two defenders up top don't seem to care about providing help because they have their backs turned to the play with no head tracking.

Side tidbit, I would have like to have seen Hayward at least attempt to box out Ben Simmons as he made his way towards the paint. Hayward actually head tracked Simmons move to the inside but still didn't react much. In addition, #11 at the lower corner also didn't "cheat" or "help" of any kind to potentially disrupt Embiids' post game. Would have also like to have seen #13 provide at minimal some disruption as Embiid starting moving towards the center paint area.

Kevin Love is essentially in the post position guarded by Klay. Despite Klay being a very solid defender. The rest of the defenders are still at arms length of their man able to recover if needed but the important thing is that all the defenders are "cheating" with "help" defense ready to provide assistance if needed.

Again, maybe it's just me. But I would have like to have see more "space" between the offensive and defense. Would have liked to have seen the defenders been closer to the paint in case there's a driver. Maybe that's just me. At least the center motion backed towards the paint.

"Anticipatory help" or "cheating" defense clamping down the paint if needed.

The following is actually may favorite sequence in the video solely because of defensive positioning. I actually like the following a whole lot better because you see all five players keep an eye on the ball handler as well as keeping a more spacious distance between them and their man in case they need to clamp the paint to provide help defense. The defenders aren't "hugging" their assignment. Secondly, seeing the blow by and help defense meeting at the bucket is nice. My only minor gripe is #17 moving towards the baseline rather than close out on the driver.

(1) Isolation plays. I've never been too fond of how 2k positions off-ball defensive players' positioning so far away from the isolation play. It resembles a lot of 2k17. My idea of an isolation is that the player essentially is in a triple threat position with a live ball. He could drive the paint (1st option), drive hard but pull up for a jumper (2nd option), or take an outside shot (3rd option). That is how I always picture it. But the most important thing being that the isolation player is incredibly adept at all three, but even more skilled at driving the paint and is very likely his go to move.

Which is why I don't understand why the massive amount of space between the isolation and the rest of the defenders. I like that the center started to cheat towards Kyrie, but then the center completely backed off. While all the other wing defenders are playing tight on their man. Even if the outside shooters were solid 3 point shooters, shouldn't the first line of defense be stopping the isolation drive?

The following looks like an isolation play that is about to go down. Lebron eventually drives the paint and gets snuffed by the three defenders because the defenders were "cheating" with anticipatory "help" defense. Even though the play looks like an isolation setup (at least that's what it looks like to me), the defenders weren't playing tight on their assigned man. They probably recognized that Lebron's first move could very well have been to drive the paint rather than take an outside shot. The defenders were essentially still within recoverable distance to contest the outside shot.

(3) Crossover drives. Note, I personally don't use the crossover in 2k basketball much because I'm simply not that good at it on the sticks. I use player movement and ball movement to score. That's just how my mind is wired.

Even so, I never really liked how it requires the ball handler to move either to the left or right several feet sort of like going in circular arc motion, before actually able to cross and get pass the defender. I was hoping to see more "confined area/space/restricted" crossovers where the ball handler can remain directly in front of the defender and do a quick crossover to get by the defender without having to move laterally several/few feet before exploding laterally to drive.

Kyrie Irving had to move laterally 2-3 feet in order to crossover and drive. The following doesn't give me hope that the defenders are less sticky on drives nor that there will be more hip rides. And I've seen this multiples in 2k17 youtube videos. It's nothing really new.

Reggie Jackson does a more "confined area/space/restricted" crossover to get by his man without having to move laterally 2-3 feet. He just does it with the defender directly in front of him.

Concern #1


Concern #2


Concern #3

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[PippenFan]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

In 2k17 sometimes the game would make user controllers players aumatically jump off pump fakes. This needs to go away.

[Impetuous65]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

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[Impetuous65]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

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[The 24th Letter]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

I want to hear more about the system that allows the CPU to recognize and pull of dynamic dribble moves...thought this was a great feature that has improved over the past two years...

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[Impetuous65]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

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[NewBreed1]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

I wanna see better substitutions by the computer. Rotations are pretty bad and make no sense some times.

[FixEverything2k]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

Scott talked about this on last years release stream and called it "Back Flow" players, getting to their assignments on the same side of the floor.

Except it didn't work properly in most cases. Against a team like rockets or GSW Sure, but If no one is at the 3 defenders shouldn't be turning around every time. I played a guy that used Cavs and CPU LeBron stopped a chasedown to look at the three once he passed the freethrow line- and no one was there.

[Impetuous65]

Re: Upcoming AI Blog Things we hope they cover

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