Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

....A fully customizable franchise with injuries tied to the leagues entire history, logo editor and the ability to play it as a GM only is something I dont think Madden has ever had.

In fact Lakers24 posted his entire wishlist in one thread which ended up being probably the most liked thread in this forums history, and 2k put almost everything from his list in the game in a year's time.

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ersion-me.html


Im sure we all want these games to improve in some aspect, but you seem to dismiss everything people say in here all of the time, while the series continues to go lacking.

I roll with the consumer first.

I digress, you are right “it’s just too hard” because there are 11 or 22 people to account for. SMH what’s the excuse for cfm?

Didn't want this highlighted stuff getting lost in the melee, especially in this thread where Ben has taken over Franchise mode. For me the 5v5 vs 11v11 excuse is moot anyway when past football games, even past Maddens, have offered better/NFL emulating game play aspects than Madden has currently and when this exact same company, EA Tib, struggles with even 5v5 game play in NBA Live, to the point where its' been canceled before.

That same excuse is completely irrelevant to why Madden Franchise mode, in the title that invented the Franchise mode, is so lacking in authenticity compared to other top sport's comparable modes and team management depth. NBA2k, The Show, OOTP, HC09, NFL2k5, Tecmo Super Bowl and Madden 2005 have aspects in their Franchise like modes that current Madden doesn't, 11v11 > 5v5 isn't an excuse for that, there's no excuse for that.

[tyberious4now]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Honestly as time goes on, and people post more and more, I'm starting to believe that point not to be true. Some of the things I see people post in response, or defense of Madden, leads me to believe they do not want the type of NFL game that I do.

This right here speaks volumes Sage...We are a divided community on OS some of us old school cats have been hearing the same rhetoric from EA for 20 years or longer...

It's really time to just keep it real and acknowledged if EA could they would but they can't and they aint...That's the bottom line point blank period...

It's just time to move on from EA football!

[Sphinx]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

This right here speaks volumes Sage...We are a divided community on OS some of us old school cats have been hearing the same rhetoric from EA for 20 years or longer...

It's really time to just keep it real and acknowledged if EA could they would but they can't and they aint...That's the bottom line point blank period...

It's just time to move on from EA football!

I think the real issue is that when many of us started playing video game football there were many options, nfl2k, madden, ncaa, nfl blitz, nfl street, nfl gameday, that one by microsoft that i never played, nfl qb club. Point is each of those games had things that people liked and it fit what they were looking for in a game.

There will never be a time that madden will fit all of those criteria for us.

[canes21]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

This right here speaks volumes Sage...We are a divided community on OS some of us old school cats have been hearing the same rhetoric from EA for 20 years or longer...

It's really time to just keep it real and acknowledged if EA could they would but they can't and they aint...That's the bottom line point blank period...

It's just time to move on from EA football!

Hopefully when you move on you are stronger than I am. I haven't played a Madden since 16. I play 2k5, 2k8, and NCAA 14 when I want my fix in. Now that they are moving to PC I am really leaning towards buying the game again. I still see there are a lot of issues that make EA who they are. It's clear that simulation football isn't what they truly want no matter what they say or what crumbs they give us here at OS.


I wish I could just go on forever not buying another Madden until they changed their ways, but I love football too much and to be honest, 2k5 is finally starting to show too much of its age for me. It only took til 2018, but I am just now getting to the point where I am honestly wanting to play Madden over it, but mostly because of 2k5's age and Madden being new and modern.


2k5 had its share of issues, there were big time issues with the secondary becoming clueless once a ball was in the air, but I was always able to put up with it. Not anymore. I don't know why, but I have hit a wall with it and I want a new football game. Unfortunately for me my only choice is Madden to fit my NFL wants.


What I am going to do this year, which is what I've been doing with my backlog of games I've been tearing through, is focusing on what the game does well and tuning it as much as the options let me to get it to play how I envision it. It is what I did with 2k5. Maybe I have been too harsh on Madden because I was such a 2k5 fan, or maybe I was right in my criticism. It does seem there is a lot of negativity among the Madden consumer base, but then again all video game forums these days are filled with negativity and toxic posts. The appreciated things tend to stick in one or two thread like The Little Things threads or the Impressions threads while all the issues get their own threads and sometimes multiple threads.


I'll try out Madden 19 on the PC. Hopefully I am able to enjoy what is good about it and have enough fun to get my fix in without shelving it out of frustration. It'll be the first time in a decade plus that I have been able to do that with the series.

[stinkubus]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

For me the 5v5 vs 11v11 excuse is moot anyway when past football games, even past Maddens, have offered better/NFL emulating game play aspects than Madden has currently.

Which past Madden had better game play than 18? No matter which one you name I guarantee you I'm going to be able to find videos on YouTube which are going to show they were absolutely broken. Whether or not you chose to take advantage of those tactics is moot, but they certainly existed.

The three most recent editions I played the most had the following game breaking glitches.

M11: you could trigger the "fall forward" animation when your RB got tackled almost 100% of the time, so it was almost impossible to stop a simple run game. If I wanted to I could've done nothing but run Strong Close dive and toss all game and there's nothing you or the LOLAI could do about it.

M12: There wasn't a single defensive assignment in the game which would make an AI player defend a simple TE streak. They had to be user guarded and the timing was incredibly difficult to pull off. If you did manage to cover the TE you could just throw a WR streak because it's probably open or could be user caught.

M25: There was absolutely no defense in this game.

If you're going to try to tell me that PS2 era Madden was better then I'm going to take this opportunity to remind you that Randy Moss was the best DT in the league for most of those games, and Brian Finneran was the most dominant WR who ever lived.

[kennypowers88]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

The "excuse" for CFM is that EA doesn't believe the sort of additions and changes advocated here will effect the bottom line enough to make it worth the time and expense, LDO. I don't contend that most of the features people ask for would be difficult to implement, they just won't increase the profitability of the game. If the people working at Tiburon, who's livelihood literally depends on how well Madden sells, thought they could get rid of another 500k units (to reach par with NBA2K) by beefing up franchise mode they would've done it a LOOOOOOOOOONG time ago.

The one feature I do believe would be difficult to implement in CFM is a balanced player progression system. I'm very hopeful that the archetype system when used in conjunction with custom draft classes (to ensure a good distribution of archetype and ability in the draft) will be able to limit the snowballing.

Right now the only limits in place are diminishing returns to XP which don't kick in until your player is already good enough that it doesn't much matter. If the draft is balanced enough that the player is put in the position of having to pick players (due to their superior starting ability) which they can't easily develop (wrong archetype) then we'll have ourselves a game.

What I don't expect is the AI to be good at any of this. The AI always has, and probably always will be, a pushover. This will probably remain true even once technology advances to the point that competent AI could run on a gaming console. Making the game too challenging, out of the box, would negatively effect sales. The best you'll ever get is the ability to customize to your liking.

If you want a challenge play against other humans. If you choose to play single player you know what you're getting (it's been the same for 30 years!) so don't act surprised or angered because you should've known better.

First of all, nobody cares about the bottom line. Not a single one of us.

Second of all, people really need to stop using this argument. There's plenty of examples of consumers rewarding depth and complexity in sports games. It's an old, exhausting, innacurate argument.

Third, even if it weren't profitable, other competent development teams have managed to please multiple playerbase through the use of customization and efficient use of development time over years.

Lastly, placing the blame on consumers for purchasing a monopolized, heavily flawed, product is practically the devils work. They bought the exclusive license. They make the game. They make the promises, the slogans, etc. They're the ones being completely outclassed by their peers. They're the ones asking for 65 dollars a year of my very hard earned money. The relationship between corporation and consumer is increasingly problematic, and you should seriously take a second to think about why your comfortable blaming those who simply want the enjoy their product at a level comparable to other products they spend roughly 65 dollars on. Especially on a website designed partly for those purposes.

A company essentially hijacked a pastime that millions of people enjoy, heavily diluted the product, and now you're trying to blame the consumers, simply for trying to maintain and save that hobby.

I'll let you guys get back to fighting the good fight, but I just couldn't let this one pass.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

The "excuse" for CFM is that EA doesn't believe the sort of additions and changes advocated here will effect the bottom line enough to make it worth the time and expense, LDO. I don't contend that most of the features people ask for would be difficult to implement, they just won't increase the profitability of the game. If the people working at Tiburon, who's livelihood literally depends on how well Madden sells, thought they could get rid of another 500k units (to reach par with NBA2K) by beefing up franchise mode they would've done it a LOOOOOOOOOONG time ago.....

I did a quick Google search for confirmation and found this:

https://kotaku.com/5800955/madden-nfl-12s-franchise-gets-its-upgrades---by-popular-demand

"It's crazy how many people play Franchise," said Looman; internal figures peg the user base of the multi-season campaign mode at 90 percent of those who play the game.

And EA even requesting "the sort of additions and changes advocated here.."

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...47&postcount=1

That just what I was able to find quickly and I also recall them reiterating something along those lines after CCM/CFM was done, so the notion that Franchise mode doesn't move units and what OSers value in this type mode is moot, seems contrary to at least what EA Tib claims. Also the fact that they do work on and invest in the mode, albeit not with a NFL authenticity implication like I'd like to see, flies in the face of the bold.

To put it another way, Madden has a version of Franchise mode, like other sports game have, EA Tib generally implements stuff into Madden's Franchise mode, like other games do to theirs and EA markets authenticity in Madden, like other games do but when it comes to providing authenticity, those other game's modes far exceed what's in Madden. Again, there is no excuse for that.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

I did a quick Google search for confirmation and found this:

https://kotaku.com/5800955/madden-nfl-12s-franchise-gets-its-upgrades---by-popular-demand

"It's crazy how many people play Franchise," said Looman; internal figures peg the user base of the multi-season campaign mode at 90 percent of those who play the game.

And EA even requesting "the sort of additions and changes advocated here.."

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...47&postcount=1

That just what I was able to find quickly and I also recall them reiterating something along those lines after CCM/CFM was done, so the notion that Franchise mode doesn't move units and what OSers value in this type mode is moot, seems contrary to at least what EA Tib claims. Also the fact that they do work on and invest in the mode, albeit not with a NFL authenticity implication like I'd like to see, flies in the face of the bold.

To put it another way, Madden has a version of Franchise mode, like other sports game have, EA Tib generally implements stuff into Madden's Franchise mode, like other games do to theirs and EA markets authenticity in Madden, like other games do but when it comes to providing authenticity, those other game's modes far exceed what's in Madden. Again, there is no excuse for that.

I’m just posting your post to piggyback a bit... I buy madden every year for my football fix and because there is no other options. Like I said before I’ve played every one since 88, so I guess I’m a creature of habit and feel like it’s something I have to have and try out every year. Rarely if ever am I playing that game in November or December though as it loses me after a month or 2. That’s it though, it’s not because it’s a great in depth game. My point is that I’m sure there are thousands of people like me that buy the game out of habit and because it’s all we got. If all of us who were tired of the lack of progression took a few years off those would be huge losses, but because of exclusivity and jonesing for a football fix it won’t ever happen. At least it won’t for me because I clearly have a problem! So the numbers posted in a earlier post are skewed imo. Madden thinks oh numbers look great and we are where we should be or want to be. Ya, but if they sent polls out To all who bought it and truly collected all their thoughts and opinions I’d think we would have a 50/50 split of people dissatisfied...

The numbers saying 90% play cfm and the lack of depth or effort put in it year after year is dare I say it again in here “insulting”! So, the most used portion of their game by the people who buy the game every year go’s untouched and that’s not a slap on the face?! I will say I do like Ben and loved the last college football game! Shoot there are things in that game that should have but still havnt made it over. But I’m glad Ben is here and heading this up. Give him a little rope EA and I think we could be in good hands. Problem is ultimately the suits and the limited vision through a cone.

I’m a believer like field of dreams that “if you build it they will come”. 2k’s depth in all areas of their game as well as their marketing (I’m not a huge fan of but can’t argue results), 2k e-league, social media, 2k interactive tv, real freelance offenses, my league depth, etc... if madden did this no doubt in my mind they would see a HUGE spike in sales! 2k has built on this every year. They have built their reputation. Madden has built one as well but in a different direction. 2k’s past has earned my trust with their development team. Like someone posted earlier madden has such high turnover where 2k does not. Why is that? That has clearly hurt this franchise or at least not helped it any...

Like you said BIG there is no excuse... it’s time to step up their game!

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Which past Madden had better game play than 18? No matter which one you name I guarantee you I'm going to be able to find videos on YouTube which are going to show they were absolutely broken. ...

If you're going to try to tell me that PS2 era Madden was better then I'm going to take this opportunity to remind you that Randy Moss was the best DT in the league for most of those games, and Brian Finneran was the most dominant WR who ever lived.

So out of all that you choose to cherry pick the part about past Maddens and misquote it too because I said better game play aspects, smh but ok.

I'm not going to bother listing exactly what Madden year this stuff was in, feel free to do your own Google-fu but this is all game play stuff from PS2 era Maddens. Route based passing, AI based option routes, more fluid running animations, 1st/2nd/3rd string subs, complete formation subs and defensive assignments. Those game play elements off the top of my head, from a gamer that preferred other football games like Joe Montana Sports Talk, 2k football, over past Maddens, not to mention an appreciation for elements in games like Tecmo Football, NFL GameDay and NFL Fever.

EDIT: Dynamic weather and weather impacting game play.

[Woo3800]

Tired of these bum *** madden producers catering to these “competitive” players.   It’s funny to Me because the players they cater to aren’t competitive at all.    These lames abuse and exploit the game.   Year after  year EA leaves that fake *** nano blitz In the game , and for what?...  To cater to these lames.  EA needs to grow sone balls and make a real ****ing NFL football game for us real nfl fans. 

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Tired of these bum *** madden producers catering to these “competitive” players. * It’s funny to Me because the players they cater to aren’t competitive at all. * *These lames abuse and exploit the game. * Year after *year EA leaves that fake *** nano blitz In the game , and for what?... *To cater to these lames. *EA needs to grow sone balls and make a real ****ing NFL football game for us real nfl fans.*

Lol! Don’t hold back! Tell us how you really feel!

[Impetuous65]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

I really enjoyed reading this thread, it is fiesty, reflective, altruistic, matter of fact, and ...

I will say this again. You can have all the cutting edge tech in the world, but if you don't have the talent, it don't mean anything.

Case in point the guys at ubisoft are praising naughty dog for using a tech they created "motion matching" that they introduced in "For Honor" eventhough they created the tech when they saw what naughty dog did in the E3 gameplay trailer they praised them on expanding the vision.

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

What mechanics?

2K has

Pro-Am
The Park - with a sandbox neighborhood
and a separate version tied to their E-League where players are getting salaries, free housing, benefits medical, dental, etc paid for by actual NBA teams


and you're going to tell me that its a flop because you read it on pastapadre.com?

Core gameplay mechanics, as in on the field in an online head-to-head setting.

Say what you will about offensive line play, online franchise's missing features, or whatever else, Madden 18 is an incredibly balanced online head-to-head game, the servers are reliable, lag is a non-issue, etc. In my experience, Tiburon has that part of the game down pat.

With respect to "flop", PastaPadre posted that the viewership numbers were already in the tubes. To the extent that we are talking about the reach of NBA 2K as an e-sport, who cares how good the modes are if no one is watching? I hope they turn it around, but they've certainly got work to do.

Anyways, you not having 2k18 makes sense now in not understanding the difference in what 2 companies can do or are capable of.

I keep up with their games. I keep up with the video game industry at-large given that it's my professional experience, I know full well what they're up to.

You say nothing they have done has peaked your interest? What modes do you play and what would peak your interest in 2k? What do they NOT have that you do want and that would make you buy it? I will say you for sure missed out on the best playing CPU AI in a b-ball game ever IMO...

My primary mode of play in sports games is online franchise with my friends. Last I heard, MyLeague online doesn't even have a salary cap or offseason free agency. Moreover and more importantly, none of my friends play NBA 2K. To that end, 2K could literally put the sentient brains of Red Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and Gregg Popovich on the disk and it doesn't fix the fact that I don't want to play a sports game by myself and I don't want to subject myself to a bare-bones online franchise mode.

[23]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Core gameplay mechanics, as in on the field in an online head-to-head setting.

Say what you will about offensive line play, online franchise's missing features, or whatever else, Madden 18 is an incredibly balanced online head-to-head game, the servers are reliable, lag is a non-issue, etc. In my experience, Tiburon has that part of the game down pat.

With respect to "flop", PastaPadre posted that the viewership numbers were already in the tubes. To the extent that we are talking about the reach of NBA 2K as an e-sport, who cares how good the modes are if no one is watching? I hope they turn it around, but they've certainly got work to do.

Man you're actually in here talking about servers and not the game itself? SMH.. okay then Im not even sure how that matters when you pretty much dismissed the lack of actual things that matter to a well rounded game as some kind of minor quip....

Just as you talk about stability in head to head, it shows the lack of attention to any other part of their game. It always blows my mind that people are cool with EA working on one or two things a year while others are throwing the kitchen sink out there.

To the other point, You're going off of a pasta padre article for a league that is actually paying people, and just got started, and hasn't even completed a first season yet, and is still in the feel out stages as a flop?

It's kinda silly to tout "reach" and "turnaround" when it just started its first games literally a month ago.


I suggest you pay way more attention to what's going on because if that's where you're getting your information from you've missed almost the entire ordeal.

It seems like you talk about 2k off of what you heard instead of knowing it yourself, but then you make claims that you follow the industry because it's your job.

You're contradicting the crap out of yourself commenting on things you don't have a clue about.

Apparently, their numbers show A LOT of people care about how good their modes are because they're the ones who buy all of those preorders that smoke Madden in September NPD's sales and from that point forward stay ahead.

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Man you're actually in here talking about servers and not the game itself?

I'm pretty sure I said "Madden 18 is an incredibly [well-]balanced online head-to-head game" as part of my opinion.