The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • thexzeno
    Rookie
    • Dec 2015
    • 27

    #1

    The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

    There seems to be a consensus that the speed of max weight 7'3 centers is entirely too fast.

    But has anyone ever confirmed this? I know people like kushmir and Nba2k labs do extensive testing of the game mechanics and I wonder if they would be willing to prove this notion(i will happily discuss payment options)

    IMO they are slow moving laterally for the most part, but on fast-breaks I've seen them keep pace with guards and shorter centers no problem, maybe not neck to neck but enough to where the can catch the rebound/chasedown and be back on the other side of the court no problem. I don't play park often but the same issue remains. Height in 2k offers many benefits with the supposed downside being speed. but there seems to be something in the code that enables a min/max speed when holding R2(perhaps the acceleration stat is broken?)

    As it stands i believe 7'3 center needs a massive stamina nerf so they will have to be conscious of their sprinting, Every myplayer can obtain 90+ stamina and that's a problem if its coded the same for every archetype/height. As of now you can literally sprint the entire game as a center with a gatorade boost and rarely tire out. Shaq in his prime played 39 minutes, That's still almost a quarter of sitting out/being less effective.

    The stamina buff recently exacerbated this issue. and as a result we have 7'3 centers dominating every other center build which leads to a stale meta of 2 rebounders, picks, and 3 point shots/putbacks. I'm not decrying the height advantage, taller centers should get more rebounds but there has to be some type of drawback or incentive for people to actually create shorter characters. The league has many legends who excelled despite being smaller in stature because they outsmarted/outskilled opponents. 2k in its current state doesn't really permit that.

    discuss
  • ojandpizza
    Hall Of Fame
    • Apr 2011
    • 29807

    #2
    Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

    Just seems hard to govern really. The entire mode is a bit unrealistic already with things like Gatorade boost and what not. A lot of big men do have good straight line speed, they have longer strides, it's typically quickness, fluidness, maybe acceleration that lacks behind in comparison. I think it would be hard for 2K to justify who can/can't have speed/stamina based on size alone. Somewhat takes the create-ability away from it.

    You mention Shaq played 39 minutes and needed rests, true, but 39 minutes would have led the league last year... Wilt regularly played 45+ minutes. I just struggle to see how they can make adjustments that seem fair to everyone as a whole. Part of the reason I stay away from those modes altogether myself.

    Comment

    • Thetruth9012
      MVP
      • Oct 2013
      • 1287

      #3
      Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

      7'3 bigs are definitely too fast on fastbreaks and also on closeouts out of a paint to perimeter.

      They also should lost more stamina.

      Why every center in park/rec is 7'3 because there is no cons again.

      Wysłane z mojego Redmi 5 przy użyciu Tapatalka
      2k18 fixes

      Bigs can cover to much ground on defense(they are too fast)

      Late contest on laups matter too much.

      Random blocks doing pumpfakes.

      Leaning shots for guys who have catch and shoot badge should be removed.

      Comment

      • shayellis
        Rookie
        • Jul 2010
        • 371

        #4
        Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

        Stamina mattering was cool for the first 3 days, smh. Now it's gone probably for the year.
        Everyone in rec is still fastbreaking every play with no stamina penalty at the end of the game. Bigs are still throwing Tom Brady passes everytime and people are still doing doctor octopus steal spamming deflections on defense.
        PSN: UVE_HAD_ENOUGH

        Comment

        • TheFgGoatLikesHawks
          Banned
          • Jul 2019
          • 359

          #5
          Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

          I think stamina is fine. Feels more like 2k19 gameplay, which is good. Ridiculous to have players feel like they're stuck in mud/quicksand when they're moving around. Right now is a good balance imo, although new patch is out so who knows what that does.

          Comment

          • ILLSmak
            MVP
            • Sep 2008
            • 2397

            #6
            Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

            7'3 needs to go. Why don't they just make it 7 foot max, or whatever would balance better.



            I never needed turbo as a 7'3 big and I didn't put points in speed when I had other spots to put them. They are just like tanks or something. Gotta move them into the right spot with some intuition and then destroy everything.


            Its either change the way height works in 2k (big task) or just say these stupid 7'3 cheese balls need to go. Then you don't have to worry as much about speed n Stam etc.



            I mean it'd be funny to hear people rage out like wat no more 7'3 centers but it's kind of ridiculous cuz everyone knows it's not realistic to have one (or more) 7 3 guy on every team.



            There are a lot of ways to try to balance it but none of them are guaranteed. What do they add to simulation immersion? Nothing. Remove.



            -Smak

            Comment

            • loso_34
              MVP
              • Jul 2010
              • 1346

              #7
              Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

              Originally posted by TheFgGoatLikesHawks
              I think stamina is fine. Feels more like 2k19 gameplay, which is good. Ridiculous to have players feel like they're stuck in mud/quicksand when they're moving around. Right now is a good balance imo, although new patch is out so who knows what that does.
              So we paid 60 for 2k19? I didn’t feel like I was in quick sand when I got quick first step.

              Comment

              • TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                Banned
                • Jul 2019
                • 359

                #8
                Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

                Originally posted by ILLSmak
                7'3 needs to go. Why don't they just make it 7 foot max, or whatever would balance better.



                I never needed turbo as a 7'3 big and I didn't put points in speed when I had other spots to put them. They are just like tanks or something. Gotta move them into the right spot with some intuition and then destroy everything.


                Its either change the way height works in 2k (big task) or just say these stupid 7'3 cheese balls need to go. Then you don't have to worry as much about speed n Stam etc.



                I mean it'd be funny to hear people rage out like wat no more 7'3 centers but it's kind of ridiculous cuz everyone knows it's not realistic to have one (or more) 7 3 guy on every team.



                There are a lot of ways to try to balance it but none of them are guaranteed. What do they add to simulation immersion? Nothing. Remove.



                -Smak

                7'0 cap would be kinda extreme. 7'0 - 7'2 centers have been pretty common in the real NBA throughout history.

                Recent or current NBA players

                Tacko Fall - 7'7
                Boban Marjanovic – 7’3”
                Kristaps Porzingis – 7’3”
                Bol Bol - 7'2"
                Salah Mejri – 7’2”
                Alexis Ajinca - 7'2"
                Roy Hibbert - 7'2"
                Timofey Mozgov – 7’1”
                Zhou Qi – 7’1”
                Ivica Zubac – 7’1”
                Marc Gasol – 7’1”
                Thon Maker – 7’1”
                Tyson Chandler – 7’1”
                Alex Len – 7’1”
                Dragan Bender – 7’1”
                Georgios Papagiannis – 7’1”
                Rudy Gobert – 7’1”

                Comment

                • TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2019
                  • 359

                  #9
                  Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

                  Originally posted by loso_34
                  So we paid 60 for 2k19? I didn’t feel like I was in quick sand when I got quick first step.
                  Yup, we pay $60 for similar base gameplay. We don't need radical gameplay changes each year if the game plays good. 2K19 movement was pretty decent, stamina was fine. Yeah each game should have new features, new parks, new moves/animations, new gameplay fixes and improvements, etc but the base gameplay doesn't have to be radically changed.

                  Comment

                  • ILLSmak
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2397

                    #10
                    Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

                    Originally posted by TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                    7'0 cap would be kinda extreme. 7'0 - 7'2 centers have been pretty common in the real NBA throughout history.

                    Recent or current NBA players

                    Tacko Fall - 7'7
                    Boban Marjanovic – 7’3”
                    Kristaps Porzingis – 7’3”
                    Bol Bol - 7'2"
                    Salah Mejri – 7’2”
                    Alexis Ajinca - 7'2"
                    Roy Hibbert - 7'2"
                    Timofey Mozgov – 7’1”
                    Zhou Qi – 7’1”
                    Ivica Zubac – 7’1”
                    Marc Gasol – 7’1”
                    Thon Maker – 7’1”
                    Tyson Chandler – 7’1”
                    Alex Len – 7’1”
                    Dragan Bender – 7’1”
                    Georgios Papagiannis – 7’1”
                    Rudy Gobert – 7’1”

                    That's not that many players. I'm speaking on what would balance game play. I know for sure 7 3 and 7 2 are ridic op. 7 1 is borderline. They could even list them at their heights but have their model closer to 7.


                    Most of those guys have heights that are slightly inflated too. Not every nba team has a seven footer, nearly every good team in 2k online has a 7 3 guy. How do we fix it? Do you really think the game would change for the worse without anyone over 7 feet? It might seem unrealistic but in my experience 7 footers work basically as they are supposed to in 2k. Beyond that they just have too much size it breaks the way ratings work.



                    Like I said there are advanced ways to change it too but I dont think speed would matter as much as you think for a good player.



                    -Smak

                    Comment

                    • TheDominator273
                      Rookie
                      • Feb 2013
                      • 1065

                      #11
                      Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

                      It's the speed minimum slider setting thats used online that allows this

                      Comment

                      • TheFinalEvent97
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2016
                        • 1519

                        #12
                        Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

                        Originally posted by TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                        7'0 cap would be kinda extreme. 7'0 - 7'2 centers have been pretty common in the real NBA throughout history.

                        Recent or current NBA players

                        Tacko Fall - 7'7
                        Boban Marjanovic – 7’3”
                        Kristaps Porzingis – 7’3”
                        Bol Bol - 7'2"
                        Salah Mejri – 7’2”
                        Alexis Ajinca - 7'2"
                        Roy Hibbert - 7'2"
                        Timofey Mozgov – 7’1”
                        Zhou Qi – 7’1”
                        Ivica Zubac – 7’1”
                        Marc Gasol – 7’1”
                        Thon Maker – 7’1”
                        Tyson Chandler – 7’1”
                        Alex Len – 7’1”
                        Dragan Bender – 7’1”
                        Georgios Papagiannis – 7’1”
                        Rudy Gobert – 7’1”
                        In order from the top

                        Fighting for the last roster spot on the Celtics
                        Only used for spot minutes because of defensive limitations
                        All Star coming off a major injury
                        Major injury concerns
                        Benchwarmer
                        Out of the League
                        Out of the League
                        Out of the League
                        Out of the League
                        Decent rotation player
                        Former All Star
                        Still a prospect
                        Defensive Star
                        Cut by the Suns but played decent in Atlanta
                        Cut by fhe Suns
                        Out of the League
                        DPOY

                        My point is while these players do or have played in the NBA very few have had any sort of sustained success, certainly nowhere near as much as they do in 2K.

                        Comment

                        • Thrustie
                          Pro
                          • Sep 2016
                          • 764

                          #13
                          Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

                          I haven’t played online much yet but I took videos of me running next to Boban on the break. He has 25 speed and acceleration while my 6’10 Center has 73 speed and 67 acceleration. There was virtually no difference between us when I should have dusted him. It was pretty disappointing since I went smaller for the speed advantage. I can post the videos if anyone is curious.

                          Comment

                          • TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                            Banned
                            • Jul 2019
                            • 359

                            #14
                            Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

                            Originally posted by ILLSmak
                            That's not that many players. I'm speaking on what would balance game play. I know for sure 7 3 and 7 2 are ridic op. 7 1 is borderline. They could even list them at their heights but have their model closer to 7.


                            Most of those guys have heights that are slightly inflated too. Not every nba team has a seven footer, nearly every good team in 2k online has a 7 3 guy. How do we fix it? Do you really think the game would change for the worse without anyone over 7 feet? It might seem unrealistic but in my experience 7 footers work basically as they are supposed to in 2k. Beyond that they just have too much size it breaks the way ratings work.



                            Like I said there are advanced ways to change it too but I dont think speed would matter as much as you think for a good player.



                            -Smak
                            I think if 2K shrunk centers to 7'0 it'd make everyone go PF for faster speed. I'd be ok with 7'2 max since there's been plenty of nba players 7'1 - 7'2

                            Comment

                            • TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2019
                              • 359

                              #15
                              Re: The 7'3 speed dilemma(stamina is broken)

                              Originally posted by TheFinalEvent97
                              In order from the top

                              Fighting for the last roster spot on the Celtics
                              Only used for spot minutes because of defensive limitations
                              All Star coming off a major injury
                              Major injury concerns
                              Benchwarmer
                              Out of the League
                              Out of the League
                              Out of the League
                              Out of the League
                              Decent rotation player
                              Former All Star
                              Still a prospect
                              Defensive Star
                              Cut by the Suns but played decent in Atlanta
                              Cut by fhe Suns
                              Out of the League
                              DPOY

                              My point is while these players do or have played in the NBA very few have had any sort of sustained success, certainly nowhere near as much as they do in 2K.
                              Not really the question of how good, but how common. 7'1 - 7'2 are common enough to put in the game. Plus plenty of HOFers were 7'1 or 7'2

                              (uncommon heights)
                              Manute Bol 7'7
                              Yao 7'6 (HOF)
                              Mark Eaton 7'4 (HOF nominee)
                              Ralph Sampson 7'4 (HOF)
                              Rik Smits 7'4 (All Star)

                              (common heights)

                              Mutombo 7'2 (HOF)
                              Kareem 7'2 (HOF)
                              David Robinson 7'1 (HOF)
                              Wilt Chamberlain 7'1 (HOF)
                              Shaq 7'1 (HOF)
                              M. Gasol 7'1 (All Star)

                              Comment

                              Working...