Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

[Hengist]

Case in point, Russell Westbrook. His 3pt tendency rating is 40 (maybe 45?). However, he jacks up sometimes up to 5 3pt shots before the first timeout of the first quarter. End result? Harden hardly gets any touches.

Another thing I'm noticing is the dish to open man rating just flat out isn't leading to more assist for guys like Jokic and Westbrook not only because they are so shot happy, because when they DO dish to this supposesly open man, he won't shoot it! Especially behind the 3 point line.

2K seems to have gone out of their way this year to make this game too iso happy. It's like the players don't play in concert with each other or something....

[Comduklakis]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

On sim stats Giannis has jacked up anywhere from 350 to 560 3 point shots, all while shooting sub 30% almost every time I simmed a season.

The stars take too many 3s on sim stats and make too many. Ever year I sim Harden is shooting .450 from 3 and at least .530 overall. Lillard is always over 50% shooting. I think it is the badges and look forward to roster makers stripping away 90% of the badges and using ratings instead.

My take is that they are completely catering to casual fans on this who want to see stars take and make shots.

[Mikelopedia]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

This is because Shot 3 Tendency, Spot Up 3 Tendency, Off Screen Shot 3 Tendency, Contested Jumper 3 Tendency, Stepback 3 Tendency, Transition Pull Up 3 Tendency, and Drive Pull Up 3 Tendency all affect gameplay.

You're looking at just his 40 Shot 3 Tendency, meanwhile Westbrook's Spot up 3 Tendency is 70 and his contested 3 Tendency is 70. That, coupled with the fact that his Play Discipline Tendency is 5 while all his Iso Tendencies are 45 or more (45, 45, 55, 65) means he's gonna be shooting a bunch of 3s in game.

If you wanna really get annoyed, take a look at guys who dont shoot 3s at all, guys that have 0 or 5 for Shot 3 Tendency. They still have much more in the Spot up 3 Tendency. Dejounte Murray for example has a 5 Shot 3 Tendency and 75 (yes 75) Spot up 3 Tendency. Guys wondered all last year why Ben Simmons was shooting pull up mids last year, a quick look past his "0" Shot Mid Range Tendency gave the answers.

Some tendencies only affect sim stats, some only gameplay, and many affect both.

[Mikelopedia]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

The stars take too many 3s on sim stats and make too many. Ever year I sim Harden is shooting .450 from 3 and at least .530 overall. Lillard is always over 50% shooting. I think it is the badges and look forward to roster makers stripping away 90% of the badges and using ratings instead.

My take is that they are completely catering to casual fans on this who want to see stars take and make shots.

Some badges do affect sim stats yes, but also 2k inflated many stars 3 point rating. They also shoot higher percentages due to their higher Offensive Consistency ratings

[Comduklakis]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

Some badges do affect sim stats yes, but also 2k inflated many stars 3 point rating. They also shoot higher percentages due to their higher Offensive Consistency ratings

the reason I suggest badges is because the non stars shoot at a normal rate on sim stats. So you are suggesting a good roster make will downgrade the stars 3 point ratings in almost every case but stick close to the existing ratings on the rank and file. Also they should lower offensive consistency and focus on tendencies.

[Hengist]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

This is because Shot 3 Tendency, Spot Up 3 Tendency, Off Screen Shot 3 Tendency, Contested Jumper 3 Tendency, Stepback 3 Tendency, Transition Pull Up 3 Tendency, and Drive Pull Up 3 Tendency all affect gameplay.

You're looking at just his 40 Shot 3 Tendency, meanwhile Westbrook's Spot up 3 Tendency is 70 and his contested 3 Tendency is 70. That, coupled with the fact that his Play Discipline Tendency is 5 while all his Iso Tendencies are 45 or more (45, 45, 55, 65) means he's gonna be shooting a bunch of 3s in game.

If you wanna really get annoyed, take a look at guys who dont shoot 3s at all, guys that have 0 or 5 for Shot 3 Tendency. They still have much more in the Spot up 3 Tendency. Dejounte Murray for example has a 5 Shot 3 Tendency and 75 (yes 75) Spot up 3 Tendency. Guys wondered all last year why Ben Simmons was shooting pull up mids last year, a quick look past his "0" Shot Mid Range Tendency gave the answers.

Some tendencies only affect sim stats, some only gameplay, and many affect both.

You are absolutely right. I lowered all those tendencies and the location 3pt tendencies and he shot 3's at a normal-ish rate. Moreso, I also lowered his touches and overall shot tendency, too.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

If you wanna really get annoyed, take a look at guys who dont shoot 3s at all, guys that have 0 or 5 for Shot 3 Tendency. They still have much more in the Spot up 3 Tendency. Dejounte Murray for example has a 5 Shot 3 Tendency and 75 (yes 75) Spot up 3 Tendency. Guys wondered all last year why Ben Simmons was shooting pull up mids last year, a quick look past his "0" Shot Mid Range Tendency gave the answers.

Some tendencies only affect sim stats, some only gameplay, and many affect both.

Spot-Up Tendencies were boosted league-wide mid-way through 2K19 because people were complaining about players passing up open threes.

Many are at 75 because that's a benchmark for the engine.
I'm sure 75 for Murray is an oversight rather than intentionally by design.

As an amateur roster editor, I occasionally have difficulty finding quality resources for some of these, especially with limited knowledge on how the game engine handles them.

Even the people that do have good ideas often have no idea what's going on under the hood and are mostly guessing. 2K's 3pt Spotup scale had to be modified based on changes made to the game engine over the years. How many tendency editors have copy/pasted scales based on older 2K's that no longer apply?

[Mikelopedia]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

the reason I suggest badges is because the non stars shoot at a normal rate on sim stats. So you are suggesting a good roster make will downgrade the stars 3 point ratings in almost every case but stick close to the existing ratings on the rank and file. Also they should lower offensive consistency and focus on tendencies.

It's just that the stars need to be rated to scale. Some one who is a 37% shooter shouldbt be rated as a 44% shooter because 2k likes his name. I dont personally compensate like youre suggesting, but I do remove alot of badges that are either redundant or a crutch for user gameplay. Many of those affect sim stats as well

Even the people that do have good ideas often have no idea what's going on under the hood and are mostly guessing. 2K's 3pt Spotup scale had to be modified based on changes made to the game engine over the years. How many tendency editors have copy/pasted scales based on older 2K's that no longer apply?

100% right.
Most spreadsheets that I see do that. I really try to test every rating, tendency and badge each year. It's tedious of course but it's also fun learning new things that might help your project that others aren't talking about. Ultimately you use your best judgement on a scale for the ones that dont affect sim stats as gameplay only ones (such as the spot up tendencies) are obviously much harder to quantify than simply looking at the season's stats.

[CelticLG]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

Some badges do affect sim stats yes, but also 2k inflated many stars 3 point rating. They also shoot higher percentages due to their higher Offensive Consistency ratings

Hey Mike, just want you to confirm that Offensive Considtency doesn’t affects Sim Stats. I put Harden at 40, still 36 ppg with 55% from the floor and 52% from three.

[Mikelopedia]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

Hey Mike, just want you to confirm that Offensive Considtency doesn’t affects Sim Stats. I put Harden at 40, still 36 ppg with 55% from the floor and 52% from three.

Really? That's strange, I guess badges are heavier than I thought this year. FWIW, I haven't seen Harden over 47% from 3 in any sims.

Just when you think you got **** kinda figured out lmao

[CelticLG]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

Really? That's strange, I guess badges are heavier than I thought this year. FWIW, I haven't seen Harden over 47% from 3 in any sims.

Just when you think you got **** kinda figured out lmao

From what I saw there are some badges that affect stats more than others, especially Deadeye, Tireless Shooter and Green Machine. I could probably add Difficult Shots and Hot Start to the list but I need more testing.

If I remove those 5 these are the results (still away from his real %, but at least is not shooting over 55%):

[JoFri]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

This is because Shot 3 Tendency, Spot Up 3 Tendency, Off Screen Shot 3 Tendency, Contested Jumper 3 Tendency, Stepback 3 Tendency, Transition Pull Up 3 Tendency, and Drive Pull Up 3 Tendency all affect gameplay.

Spoiler

You're looking at just his 40 Shot 3 Tendency, meanwhile Westbrook's Spot up 3 Tendency is 70 and his contested 3 Tendency is 70. That, coupled with the fact that his Play Discipline Tendency is 5 while all his Iso Tendencies are 45 or more (45, 45, 55, 65) means he's gonna be shooting a bunch of 3s in game.



If you wanna really get annoyed, take a look at guys who dont shoot 3s at all, guys that have 0 or 5 for Shot 3 Tendency. They still have much more in the Spot up 3 Tendency. Dejounte Murray for example has a 5 Shot 3 Tendency and 75 (yes 75) Spot up 3 Tendency. Guys wondered all last year why Ben Simmons was shooting pull up mids last year, a quick look past his "0" Shot Mid Range Tendency gave the answers.

Some tendencies only affect sim stats, some only gameplay, and many affect both.

I can say for sure it affects actual gameplay in 19. I have a lot of fun with cpu going spot up 3s on transition or half court plays.
I have faith that the correlation will translate for 20.


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[JoFri]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

Many are at 75 because that's a benchmark for the engine.

I'm sure 75 for Murray is an oversight rather than intentionally by design.



As an amateur roster editor, I occasionally have difficulty finding quality resources for some of these, especially with limited knowledge on how the game engine handles them.

I boost it to 99 and it makes a difference. I didnt know 75 was the benchmark.



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[Real2KInsider]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

I boost it to 99 and it makes a difference. I didnt know 75 was the benchmark.

99 is also a benchmark.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Player Tendencies do NOT correlate to in game stats

The simulation engine is a lot slower this year. It takes 5 minutes to sim through a season when testing sliders.

And there a lot more simulated stats sliders this year. My first sim had 8 teams shooting above 50%. So I dropped sim stats for dunks, lay ups, inside shots and mid rangers, and got the highest team at 49%. So that was nice.

Next task was getting more of a spread in pace (despite adjusting patient offense/neutral/shoot at will, fastest team was only at 101 and slowest team at 98)). I moved the pace slider up and it reduced pace. I moved it down, and it increased pace. So there you go.

I've had that star guards shooting too high of a % problem the last few years. I treat it as a gameplay vs sim stats issue. I rather they stand out as elite in gameplay than reduce that to get sim stats in line.