MAJOR Coverage Issue

[Vanilla_Gorilla]

In Zone Coverage, Defensive Backs aren’t reacting to defend passes until the ball is thrown.

This is a massive issue. This is why receivers are so wide open all the time leading to insanely high completion rates by quarterbacks.

I have 2 primary examples of that.

I ran Cover 4 against a Corner Route and Cover 3 against verts (yes I know verts beats Cover 3 but how the players react to the play is the key). Here’s how the safeties reacted in each play.

Cover 4 against the Corner: The corner route was the lone route to that side of the field so the safety and the linebacker in the seam flat were responsible for covering it. At the route break, the safety (He is the lone deep zone on the right side of the fieldH is facing the TE. The TE breaks on the route and the safety just stands there. The TE is wide open and the safety finally breaks on the route after the ball is thrown, but this is obviously way too late. Touchdown.

Cover 3 against the Verts. The QB threw to the TE in the slot on the up seam. Don’t really need to explain that. The safety in the middle of the field is the primary responsibility, but as with the previous example, he just stands there as the TE runs behind him. QB throws the ball and as with the previous example, the safety then reacts and attempts to make the play.

This is simply not how NFL defensive backs react to plays.

Also, in case anyone was wandering the 2 safeties were Justin Simmons and Kareem Jackson. Both have at least 84 ZCV and 86 PRC. Jackson has 92 PRC and 87 ZCV and Simmons the former.

[Qcsports4]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

I've read that a past patch is supposed to have improved coverage reactions in zones. I don't have Wi-Fi at home so I can't upload any patches and don't know if it's true or not. I do have a theory about why the CBs and Safties don't react quicker than they do and that's a programming botch. They are programmed to react at a certain point depending on how the WRs and TEs movements are programmed (along with the defense sliders adjustments). Try pressing the WRs at the line of scrimmage. Maybe if the CBs and Safties programmed movements are slow,if the WRs route movements are slowed due to being knocked off their regular route running,then that will cause the CBs and Safties programmed reactions to start sooner.

[roadman]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

It could be a programming issue, it could be a AM, AP, Pro, or Rookie mode issue, it could be a sliders issue, etc.....

I'm seeing this stuff less and less on Pro and AP with sliders near 50.

I do see CB's chuck the WR thinking they have zone coverage, but to me, if the player has a 84 rating in ZC, that was still a B in school.

I'm not sure where the cutoff point is between a 84 rated or 90 rated or AM vs AP, vs Pro vs Rookie enters the equation.

All we can do is compare notes and see what we see.

[ParaAut]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

You mention 2 plays where you didn't get the reaction you have expected.


Run the play 10 times in practice mode and see how your players react. If it's always the same, then try some adjustments to stop it. If you still see holes you can't defend, then user the defender and take away the hole. After all, it's still a game to be played and no NFL broadcast.


The game is far from perfect, but for all these plays there's usually an explaination and a way to stop it or make it much more difficult for the opponent.

[Vanilla_Gorilla]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

It could be a programming issue, it could be a AM, AP, Pro, or Rookie mode issue, it could be a sliders issue, etc.....

I'm seeing this stuff less and less on Pro and AP with sliders near 50.

I do see CB's chuck the WR thinking they have zone coverage, but to me, if the player has a 84 rating in ZC, that was still a B in school.

I'm not sure where the cutoff point is between a 84 rated or 90 rated or AM vs AP, vs Pro vs Rookie enters the equation.

All we can do is compare notes and see what we see.

I’ve heard people have better results with gameplay on AP. My only concern is the intelligence of the AI on AP. I always have blowout games because the AI’s intelligence is vastly reduced.

I have a feeling most of what I see is related to AM being geared to slighting the user for the challenge, which leads to all the wonky animations and poor play.

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

I’ve heard people have better results with gameplay on AP. My only concern is the intelligence of the AI on AP. I always have blowout games because the AI’s intelligence is vastly reduced.

I have a feeling most of what I see is related to AM being geared to slighting the user for the challenge, which leads to all the wonky animations and poor play.

Totally agree with your experience on AP. Always blowouts.

I have the most success playing variations of Cover 3 out of Nickel and I user one of the LB's. Usually whichever one is on the side with the TE. The outside guys do a good job if they're not pressing, or if you adjust them to play over the top when you press, and I can usually take away the middle of the field with my LB.

[Shosum13]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

I’ve heard people have better results with gameplay on AP. My only concern is the intelligence of the AI on AP. I always have blowout games because the AI’s intelligence is vastly reduced.

I have a feeling most of what I see is related to AM being geared to slighting the user for the challenge, which leads to all the wonky animations and poor play.

I like all pro for user vs user play, but play on all madden for my solo franchises vs the CPU because I can't get all pro to be challenging even with slider adjustments. I might not be seeing all of the issues you listed in the original post but am definitely seeing issues with zone defense both on all madden and all pro. For the most part I think the issues mostly all tie to the way the a.i. drops to a spot in their zone immediately and don't react until the ball is thrown. If the pass gets out fast enough and is accurate it usually gets to the WR before they can make a play on it. What they should be doing is flowing with the play within their general zone which would leave them in much better positions to make a play on the ball but I don't know how easy it is to program that a.i.

[Vanilla_Gorilla]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

I like all pro for user vs user play, but play on all madden for my solo franchises vs the CPU because I can't get all pro to be challenging even with slider adjustments. I might not be seeing all of the issues you listed in the original post but am definitely seeing issues with zone defense both on all madden and all pro. For the most part I think the issues mostly all tie to the way the a.i. drops to a spot in their zone immediately and don't react until the ball is thrown. If the pass gets out fast enough and is accurate it usually gets to the WR before they can make a play on it. What they should be doing is flowing with the play within their general zone which would leave them in much better positions to make a play on the ball but I don't know how easy it is to program that a.i.

How far they drop back is definitely an issue. LB’s never drop back far enough and in Cover 2 specifically the CB’s in the soft zones always drop back too far leaving the flats wide open.

Personally I think they just need to remove “Hard Flat” from the game entirely and just focus on DB reaction time programming in Cover 2

[Shosum13]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

How far they drop back is definitely an issue. LB’s never drop back far enough and in Cover 2 specifically the CB’s in the soft zones always drop back too far leaving the flats wide open.

Personally I think they just need to remove “Hard Flat” from the game entirely and just focus on DB reaction time programming in Cover 2

I’ve also noticed a big drop in awareness in zone coverage in the end zone when the other team is in a goal to go situation. I see it happening in both user vs user play and playing vs the CPU where I’ll have defenders just letting someone run free or a ball that they could make a play on that they instead just watch sail right over their head in to the hands of the WR. In my online head 2 head franchise I had several throws right at the pylon usually with a comeback or an out route where my CB is in perfect position in coverage but just stand there and watch the ball with their hands at their side as it goes to the WR. I even had a time or two where my CB was standing right in the path of the ball and literally just ran away from the ball towards the line of scrimmage another 5-10 yards underneath the ball so it just sails to the WR. When this happened it was with my man coverage corner that is an 85 ovr with 87 MCV and 80 ZCV so it’s not like it’s a scrub CB making a big mental error.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

Are you playing match coverages when you play Cover-3? I’m playing on AM and my seams are protected beautifully. It’s outside the numbers where the wonkiness starts to pop up.

One formation that still gives me problems though is any kind of Trey Open where the #3 goes straight up the seam either in a clear out for a dagger concept or one of those fake screen wheel routes where #2, and #3 go on streaks. If I adjust the coverage to over the top the buzz safety will take it away though. It’s the post safety that should be playing it, but for some reason is slow getting to the middle of the field.

[khaliib]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

PRC plays no role in coverage, so the rating has no impact on the topic.

The (2) ratings that are weighted the most in coverage programming is AWR and ZCV.

AWR as a modifier of how much of their zone responsibility they will adhere to.
- a “99” will operate/recognize almost completely (there no 100%) the zone responsibility
- as AWR declines, the players radius within that zone responsibility becomes smaller

Ex:
Deep 3 is a large zone, an 80’ish AWR player may be modified to only recognize 1/2 that zone responsibility (we don’t know the exact modification).

ZCV has a (2) fold impact...
1) Break during throw motion
2) Break upon ball release

93+ ZCV is needed to produce the “quickest” reaction of the above
- the imposed reaction delay will be substantial even with ZCV in high 80’s

Also, most M20 QB’s default to the Generic 1 Throw Animation which is right under the fastest animation.
- there are some slower ones but aren’t being used as much

- this fast Throw Animation exacerbates the delayed reaction of the players under 93 ZCV

Couple the default fast Throw Animation (Generic 1) along with most front end QB’ having 90+ THP, you can began to see the impact upon your notation.


The reason LB’s are so terrible in their zones is mainly due to their low ZCV ratings (50-60’s) along with low ratings lowering their “knock-out” rate on contact hits over the middle.
- occasionally a generated LB will come in with a 70’ish ZCV Rating, rare but it happens

I will say this, playing off the disk (not a digital download) with no updates, the tight coverage/knock-out animations is beautiful.
- I wonder how many gamers are playing off a Digital Download

[SpectreBugg]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

What you're describing is, in the simplest was i can describe it, just madden. It's 100% a programming problem, and there is very little you can do to change or improve it at all. In most zone coverages, the safeties will drop and drop until the ball is thrown, simply because the game doesn't have anything there to tell them to go after a receiver. This is mostly common in cover 2 and 3. Cover 4 is a little better, but only because in quarters for instance, they have man principles based on the route combinations. But in say, cover 2.. even if there isn't any route coming at the safety, they won't attack anything until the ball is thrown, or rather, until you press that button on your controller. It's a huge issue, but not something the players have much control over. The game just isn't good in this area.

[asantead22]

MAJOR Coverage Issue

Unfortunately Madden 20 is as bad as the other editions! The gameplay is broken in almost every aspect! I am not excited about the PS5 version because it will be worse! Same excuses. The NFL is blind to this crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Jagsfan24]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

The major issues in coverage i am seeing so far still is the lack of reaction on curl/comeback routes and the lack of reaction on corner of endzone, always an easy touchdown for the cpu

[kennylc321]

Re: MAJOR Coverage Issue

I cannot disagree with this comment any more than I do.

Practice mode; play now; CFM all play differently. A slider set in one mode is NOT the same in another mode.

You mention 2 plays where you didn't get the reaction you have expected.


Run the play 10 times in practice mode and see how your players react. If it's always the same, then try some adjustments to stop it. If you still see holes you can't defend, then user the defender and take away the hole. After all, it's still a game to be played and no NFL broadcast.


The game is far from perfect, but for all these plays there's usually an explaination and a way to stop it or make it much more difficult for the opponent.