Non-athlete position changes

[Seeker7]

I've recently been playing around with position changes for 2 star non-athletes. In offseason after basically recruiting normally I will fill in the remaining board with 2 stars with the sole intent of retraining them. While only doing this for a short time here are my general observations. I would love to hear other people's successes and stories here.

Power running backs: If you move them to middle linebacker you will often see massive strength increases. Train them for a year at MLB and then move them back to running back, or move them to OLB or DE for great power rushers.

Physical wide receivers: Make really good safeties. They often become really strong and in time will develop very good cover skills. Tackling may still be a little low at times.

Possession tight ends: Like power running backs, move them to MLB for a season for large strength increases, them move them to OLB or DE for very good power rushers.

Offensive linemen: Move them to DT and you often get some really high strength increases, but sometimes they are weak tacklers until they become upper classmen. But still highly recommend. In a 3-4 they also can then become good slow but strong DEs but put them at DT first for a season and then move them for their next year.

Deep threat wide receivers: Make outstanding CBs after a couple of years...just look for 2 stars deep threats with speed of 90+ and retrain them.

Where I am still struggling is find any position that can retrain at QB. Doesn't seem possible, as even with high skills caps at power, they never seem to get any decent arm strength, although accuracy can go very high.

The key thing I do here is after recruiting them during initial position changes keep them at their default position. Then once the new season starts go to View Roster, look at their caps, then for each recruit go to their "edit" screen. You can move different recruits to other positions from there and then look at their new caps to see where they might thrive and develop more. Some might argue this is exploity...that's cool then don't do it. But I don't feel it is. As a coach I'm trying to find where a player is best suited and has room to grow, that just seems like good coaching to me.

Bottom line is that most of these 2 stars will end up in the 80s (rather than 70s for most 2 stars). You are not creating super stars but are turning some 2 stars into very usable role players for your team. My one exception to this was when I took at 2 star power back with 90 speed/acceleration, moved him to MLB for one season where he had his strength skyrocket up to 96, then moved him back to RB. He led the nation in rushing as a redshirt senior.

Anyway, would love to hear other's thoughts on this!

[Seeker7]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

One quick addendum. By using the "edit" screen to change positions, rather than the actual position change step in offseason, you will sometimes end up with incorrect archetypes on a player. To fix this in the next position change offseason step just move them to any other position then back again and it will change to a more stat based appropriate archetype. For example, if I move a power back to MLB for a season, go through the training step, start a new season, then edit them to move them back to RB, for some reason they won't go back to power back but will show up as a receiving back. No worries, while they will play one season as a receiving back, in the next position change event (which is before the next training event) move them to anything else then back to rb and they will come back as a power back.

Also there is a weird bug with outside linebackers where the caps page will be blank. To fix this just move them from left side to right side or vica versa. This will usually fix it.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

I converted a rising Sophomore Physical WR in the off-season at Notre Dame to a vertical stretch TE.

He is now a Junior and an absolute beast in my spread offense.

[moTIGS]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

I went pretty deep on this previously, specifically looking at two-star receivers moved to the secondary.

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-sports-college-football-ncaa-football/1023318-changing-positions-non-athlete-recruits-viable.html#post2050979531

Since then, I can anecdotally confirm changing positions is pretty effective in general. In my current primary dynasty, I have two corners who came in as three-star running backs, currently both rated 88 overall as redshirt sophomores.

As you note, quarterback is an exception. If a guy can't throw, he can't throw. That isn't ever likely to change. I'm glad for that, too. It's realistic. You can't just take anyone and put him at quarterback and expect good results. (That said, I do wish way more players had high throw power. In real life, I'd guess a significant portion of college teams have linemen who can throw the ball a mile. Strong arms aren't THAT rare among non-QBs.)

A few other areas where it doesn't really work in my experience:

DL to OL: This one's a bit iffy, because it's really only one attribute that's affected. With every DL I've tried moving to OL, they end up as a power archetype. And power archetype OL do not ever progress pass block finesse. It's an error on their ratings page. If you look at any power OL's pass blocking skill group, you'll see pass block power listed twice. So PBF just never improves. Your DL-turned-OL will be stuck with a horrendous rating in that stat forever, which would make him struggle against finesse moves.

Any player to OLB: As you note, this often causes a bug. The issue is when the converted player is listed as a speed rusher. That's from Madden. The speed rusher archetype doesn't exist in this game, except when it's bugged. So their ratings page is just blank. And as you note, the fix is to change them via the edit function on their player card. Moving ROLB to LOLB typically addresses it. That issue aside, this often seems like a pretty viable move for players with the requisite physical traits.

Moving players to hybrid safety: Not really an issue specific to position changes so much as it's an issue with hybrid safeties in general, but they're significantly slower to progress than the other archetypes. If you have a guy you want to be a safety but it's giving you the hybrid archetype, just don't bother. He won't get better quickly enough to be a factor on the field. You're better off recruiting a natural safety. (Or, as a workaround, you can edit his zone coverage up a bunch before making the position switch so he comes in as a zone archetype, then edit it back down to where it was after moving him to safety.)

Power rushing OLB to DE: This works really well, but with a caveat: If you have an OLB with the quick jump trait, you probably should leave him at OLB. He'll lose that trait when converting to DE most likely. I've had a few OLB that I wanted to move to DE, but I also didn't want to lose the trait, so I just play them out of position instead. That trait is worth preserving. This position switch is mostly about aesthetics anyway; in real life, a lot of teams treat OLB as DE and vice versa anyway. EA needs to get on the "Edge" position bandwagon already.

DB to HB: I have a sample size of just one on this, but I tried converting a safety to running back. Mostly out of curiosity. His break tackle rating topped out at 39. Everything else looks good, though. Maybe it's just this one guy, but I'm probably not going to try this experiment again. (That said, the idea of an athletic running back who gets tackled when a defender breathes near him is kinda realistic, so I'm not mad about it.)

And a couple position changes that can be really fun. Neither is unusual (most players have probably considered it already), but both are fun:

WR to HB: You can end up with some pretty unique running backs this way. A fast deep threat WR might never be a good all-around running back, but he can be extremely fun as a third-down back. Especially useful for guys who have low skill caps at receiver. They'll probably be one-trick ponies at either position, but with position changes, you can often get two distinct one-trick ponies on the field at the same time. And who doesn't love ponies?

TE to FB: Again, a pretty obvious move. But a possession tight end on the smaller side can quickly become a Kyle Juszczyk clone. There are a few plays in my playbook where I can hot route the fullback to a backside wheel on a playaction, which for me translates to a 30+ yard reception at least once every couple games. Not earth shattering by any means, but if you run the ball enough to use a fullback on the field, a converted tight end will be a massive upgrade all around (especially because the game seemingly does not generate any fullbacks above three stars).

I've also dabbled a bit with moving OL to DT, which you mentioned. I have a side dynasty where I have Hawaii running a 3-4. The secondary is 100% players recruited as receivers or running backs. Half the DL are former OL. And then I cheat with recruiting so they sign elite linebackers (take control over other teams offering the players I want, remove the offer, repeat until they sign; I'm mostly just recruiting for this team so my main team has a strong conference opponent, so cheating doesn't bother me). Their current best DL is a redshirt sophomore converted OL: 85 overall as a DE. He's close to maxed out there, but given the state of that team when I took control, they're sure as hell weren't going to have an 85-overall sophomore defender anytime soon otherwise. The other OL I've done this with for them, however, have lagged in development.

[StormJH1]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

I've watched some videos with YouTubers who basically specialize in using weird Position Changes to get some absurdly overpowered players in terms of OVR or specific skills. I don't consider it cheating or cheesy if the game allows it, but I feel like if I went too far down that rabbit hole, it would screw with the immersion of the game for me.

That being said, there are just some positions where it seems like the only reasonable way to get decent players is by switching positions. Fullback is an example of that - even the best recruits you can find are typically 3* and trash, but switch any number of existing players from TE, WR, etc. and they'll immediately be your best option.

[SuperBowlNachos]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

So far I've changed a slower physical WR to TE, and a fast LT with meh blocking to TE. My leading rusher used to be a WR, but he is only 92 speed and nothing too crazy special.

[2Tacos]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

Power back to MLB and elusive back to CB/OLB has been really productive for me. I've had a lot of success with deep threat WR to CB, though their tackling lags the rest of their development significantly (if it ever increases).

Safety has been a big challenge for me. Is there any way to get a Hybrid safety into a different archetype? I find when I convert a back or WR they get the Hybrid archetype and don't develop. Is it better to switch to CB for a year to develop coverage abilities and then switch?

And what about natural hybrid safeties? I have a JR(RS) with star dev who won't improve because the progression costs are so high. If I changed him to CB for offseason training and then switched position back to FS would he have a different archetype? Or is it not worth it since he only has 1 more year of eligibility? What about for a FR in the same position? Would love to hear if anyone has experimented.

[Seeker7]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

I went pretty deep on this previously, specifically looking at two-star receivers moved to the secondary.

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-sports-college-football-ncaa-football/1023318-changing-positions-non-athlete-recruits-viable.html#post2050979531

Since then, I can anecdotally confirm changing positions is pretty effective in general. In my current primary dynasty, I have two corners who came in as three-star running backs, currently both rated 88 overall as redshirt sophomores.

As you note, quarterback is an exception. If a guy can't throw, he can't throw. That isn't ever likely to change. I'm glad for that, too. It's realistic. You can't just take anyone and put him at quarterback and expect good results. (That said, I do wish way more players had high throw power. In real life, I'd guess a significant portion of college teams have linemen who can throw the ball a mile. Strong arms aren't THAT rare among non-QBs.)

A few other areas where it doesn't really work in my experience:

DL to OL: This one's a bit iffy, because it's really only one attribute that's affected. With every DL I've tried moving to OL, they end up as a power archetype. And power archetype OL do not ever progress pass block finesse. It's an error on their ratings page. If you look at any power OL's pass blocking skill group, you'll see pass block power listed twice. So PBF just never improves. Your DL-turned-OL will be stuck with a horrendous rating in that stat forever, which would make him struggle against finesse moves.

Any player to OLB: As you note, this often causes a bug. The issue is when the converted player is listed as a speed rusher. That's from Madden. The speed rusher archetype doesn't exist in this game, except when it's bugged. So their ratings page is just blank. And as you note, the fix is to change them via the edit function on their player card. Moving ROLB to LOLB typically addresses it. That issue aside, this often seems like a pretty viable move for players with the requisite physical traits.

Moving players to hybrid safety: Not really an issue specific to position changes so much as it's an issue with hybrid safeties in general, but they're significantly slower to progress than the other archetypes. If you have a guy you want to be a safety but it's giving you the hybrid archetype, just don't bother. He won't get better quickly enough to be a factor on the field. You're better off recruiting a natural safety. (Or, as a workaround, you can edit his zone coverage up a bunch before making the position switch so he comes in as a zone archetype, then edit it back down to where it was after moving him to safety.)

Power rushing OLB to DE: This works really well, but with a caveat: If you have an OLB with the quick jump trait, you probably should leave him at OLB. He'll lose that trait when converting to DE most likely. I've had a few OLB that I wanted to move to DE, but I also didn't want to lose the trait, so I just play them out of position instead. That trait is worth preserving. This position switch is mostly about aesthetics anyway; in real life, a lot of teams treat OLB as DE and vice versa anyway. EA needs to get on the "Edge" position bandwagon already.

DB to HB: I have a sample size of just one on this, but I tried converting a safety to running back. Mostly out of curiosity. His break tackle rating topped out at 39. Everything else looks good, though. Maybe it's just this one guy, but I'm probably not going to try this experiment again. (That said, the idea of an athletic running back who gets tackled when a defender breathes near him is kinda realistic, so I'm not mad about it.)

And a couple position changes that can be really fun. Neither is unusual (most players have probably considered it already), but both are fun:

WR to HB: You can end up with some pretty unique running backs this way. A fast deep threat WR might never be a good all-around running back, but he can be extremely fun as a third-down back. Especially useful for guys who have low skill caps at receiver. They'll probably be one-trick ponies at either position, but with position changes, you can often get two distinct one-trick ponies on the field at the same time. And who doesn't love ponies?

TE to FB: Again, a pretty obvious move. But a possession tight end on the smaller side can quickly become a Kyle Juszczyk clone. There are a few plays in my playbook where I can hot route the fullback to a backside wheel on a playaction, which for me translates to a 30+ yard reception at least once every couple games. Not earth shattering by any means, but if you run the ball enough to use a fullback on the field, a converted tight end will be a massive upgrade all around (especially because the game seemingly does not generate any fullbacks above three stars).

I've also dabbled a bit with moving OL to DT, which you mentioned. I have a side dynasty where I have Hawaii running a 3-4. The secondary is 100% players recruited as receivers or running backs. Half the DL are former OL. And then I cheat with recruiting so they sign elite linebackers (take control over other teams offering the players I want, remove the offer, repeat until they sign; I'm mostly just recruiting for this team so my main team has a strong conference opponent, so cheating doesn't bother me). Their current best DL is a redshirt sophomore converted OL: 85 overall as a DE. He's close to maxed out there, but given the state of that team when I took control, they're sure as hell weren't going to have an 85-overall sophomore defender anytime soon otherwise. The other OL I've done this with for them, however, have lagged in development.

Thanks for much for posting this! Awesome stuff!

[Seeker7]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

Been playing around with this more during the weekend. I exclusively run a 3-4 defense. I only swap 2 stars so far. I have to say, after alot of experimenting, my favorite swaps are, in order:

Possession TE to power rusher OLB. I've had 2 star normal devs get drafted. By far my favorite swap.

Power Back to coverage MLB. No elite speed but all other stats turn out great. Haven't tried elusive back to MLB but may try that soon. Have done some some run stopping safeties to MLB and those turn out well too. Weight is low but but they don't play that way and have more speed than the power backs.

Agile OL to DE (in a 3-4) or DT. They will often develop alot more strength, so you can even do it for an OL with strength in the 70s and it will normally go up quite a bit...I've had a couple go from upper 70s strength to upper 90s strength. Tackling takes awhile to develop though so be patient.

Deep Threat WR to CB. I haven't gotten super stars here but some 2 stars with decent speed hit low to mid 80s overall as seniors. Tackling lags.

Elusive Back to CB. Ditto the deep threat WRs, except I did have had one huge success here. Shane Dogg was a 2 star normal dev elusive back with 90 speed and acceleration. Elusive back caps were not good. After swapping to CB he had massive cap increases and by the time he was a redshirt junior became an interception machine. Ended up 89 overall and drafted. Not bad for a 2 star normal dev.

Physical WR to S. Strength goes really high for some reason, tackling can lag.

Scrub 2 star QB to Punter or Kicker. Yes you read that right. Fake punts and FGs are fun with them and they often develop really high kick power and accuracy after one red shirt freshman season, especially if they have a good development trait. Its hit or miss on caps so you may have try more than once and cut the ones who don't have good caps, but you will be surprised and how often caps are super high. Some are accurate archetype and some are strength archetype...I prefer the strength ones.

You will notice that these are all (other than kicker) offense to defense swaps. The other way around is alot harder and not finding much success there due to offense requiring specialized skills.

Also a disclaimer if you try some of these that what I'm saying above is "on average". Not all will pan out but that's what makes it fun. Although from my experience so far possession TE to power rushing OLB always works out very very well for me, thus it being at the top of my list.

[tessl]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

I'm sure most people already know this but safeties make good linebackers and linebackers make good defensive ends. Once in a while a DE will develop into a good DT especially RDT. Speed on defense.

[moTIGS]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

Power back to MLB and elusive back to CB/OLB has been really productive for me. I've had a lot of success with deep threat WR to CB, though their tackling lags the rest of their development significantly (if it ever increases).

Safety has been a big challenge for me. Is there any way to get a Hybrid safety into a different archetype? I find when I convert a back or WR they get the Hybrid archetype and don't develop. Is it better to switch to CB for a year to develop coverage abilities and then switch?

And what about natural hybrid safeties? I have a JR(RS) with star dev who won't improve because the progression costs are so high. If I changed him to CB for offseason training and then switched position back to FS would he have a different archetype? Or is it not worth it since he only has 1 more year of eligibility? What about for a FR in the same position? Would love to hear if anyone has experimented.

If you're willing to "cheat" a little bit, there's an easy way to change player archetypes in the off-season.

On signing day (when position switches are available), go into your roster to the player you want to change the archetype for. Edit their ratings. Change their position to something different. Then go and edit their ratings back to what they were before. Finally, change them back to their original position. Their individual attributes should all be the same, but their archetype (and overall) will be different.

On a hybrid safety, for example, you could go into his ratings and boost zone coverage by 20 points. Then change him to corner. Then immediately change him back to safety. Because you boosted his zone coverage, he'll likely return to safety as a zone archetype. Then edit him again to take away the 20 points you added to him.

This should work for anyone except new recruits (who you can't edit right after signing because the player card isn't available yet). You could theoretically do it at any point by editing their position from their player card, but position switches that way tend to lead to undesired results.

If you would rather not edit players, though (or if you're in an online dynasty with other people and the rules don't allow for that), then I would guess your approach would probably work, but it would still be a bit of a crap shoot (if you move them to corner and they only pick up man coverage gains, they will probably stay a hybrid safety). Might be safer to have them spend a year at linebacker, where they'd be more likely to pick up some abilities against the run, which would hopefully turn them from a hybrid safety into a run support safety.

[Seeker7]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

Speaking of switching a player to another position for one year to boost a particular attribute them switching them back the following year.... Switch a power back to MLB for one year, watch their strength go way up, then switch them back to power back the following year. Same with physical WR or any other player you want to increase their strength. MLB only costs 2 points per tick for strength increases. A little "gamey" but hey it's your game do what you want. Role play or justify by saying hey your going on an intense strength training regimen this year....

[georgiafan]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

A few quick notes

1. pay attention to the "team player badge"

2. The blue skill tree you can get a perk for OL/DL and WR/CB for two way player boosts

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: Non-athlete position changes

I've done a glitchy power back to DE just to get the Quick Jump perk, I don't do things like that often, but every once in a while i'll throw something like that for fun and see what happens. (6'6" physical freak WR to a DB? yeah. Lets do it. )


For more serious ones, If/when i come across a MLB with between 88-90 speed, I shift them to SS in my 4-2-5, also, if i have a real big physical receiver I'll move him to me TE slot. They develop blocking skills pretty quickly