The winner of the 2012 Heisman trophy SHOULD be.....

[T-Moar]

Quote: Originally Posted by cdawg44

Sorry man, I totally disagree. You can't give it to Manziel, but you give credit to a guy that played like dog crap in his two most important games of the season. Murray looked awful in the games at South Carolina and vs Florida in Jacksonville. Vs. Florida 12/24 for 150 1TD and 3 INT vs South Carolina 11/31 109 and 1 INT Other than that, what is Murray's signature win?? Vandy, Auburn, Ga Tech?? He has to play lights out this weekend for me even to listen to that reasoning.

You are aware that Manziel's best win outside of Alabama came against Mississippi State, right? He lost his only two other big games, LSU and Florida. And he absolutely feasted on teams like Sam Houston State and South Carolina State, that don't even play in the FBS.

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Colin Klein wet the bed man. You can't get hammered by a .500 baylor team and look bad doing it in the process. Sorry Klein gets an invite to NYC, but can't win it now. You can't get embarrased on national tv and expect to win the Heisman.

Oh? I didn't realize Collin Klein played defense. And I also failed to notice that Manziel's games against Florida (1 rush TD, 0 passing) and LSU (0 Total TD, 3 INT) weren't on national TV. You can't comparatively fault Collin Klein for losing the big game when Johnny Manziel didn't even get his team there.

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Manziel has hands down been the best player in college football and to me, the only person close is Manti Teo'o, and the only reason he can't get it is because of his age? Really? This award is not a lifetime achievement award or a mvp trophy. It is the best player is college football right now. And that is Johnny Football.

I'm just saying that I want evidence that his numbers are him, and not a product of the system. And that evidence would be a lot more convincing if the SEC weren't having its worst year in almost a decade.

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This sounds more like sour grapes that Case Keenum didn't get the love versus any objections to what Johnny Manziel did this year. A freshman with a new coach, with a team that was 6-6 last year, moving to the hardest division in college football and you go 10-2. Child please, that screams Heisman to me.

1. I understand that Case Keenum didn't get the Heisman because he absolutely feasted on weak defenses in C-USA. That's understandable to me. I was more upset at Graham Harrell getting screwed out of a Heisman.

2. The hardest division in College Football? The division where 2/7 of the coaches got fired after the year ended, and Mississippi State goes bowling with only one win against a team that's going to be playing after this weekend (Middle Tennessee State)?

3. You bring up the fact that A&M was 6-6 last year, but you fail to mention that their offense was #11 in scoring and #8 in offensive yards per game, both of which would have put them first in the SEC last year, before installing Kevin Sumlin's notoriously high-powered offense. It's hard to say that Manziel wasn't stepping into a team that was offensively loaded with talent, especially since they returned their starting RB, their #1 WR, and two O-Linemen that are probably going to go in the first round of the draft.

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And the line of argument that a guy can't get the Heisman early in his career because he might win it again is the crappiest line of argument that I hate the most. That is exactly why Adrian Peterson got screwed 7 years ago when he should have won the Heisman. We have no clue what is going to happen in the future. This kid could get hurt, Sumlin may leave, who knows. I want to the Heisman trust to recognize greatness when we have our chance and let the cards fall where they may. This may be his only chance at it.

If Sumlin leaves and Manziel fails to continue to put up these numbers, that'll just prove my point. I'm just not convinced that these numbers are Manziel's doing. Manziel is lucky in that he's playing in the SEC in a down year.

[BigDofBA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sportsforever

Honest question: if A&M is still in the B12 this year, does Manziel get the hype he has received this year in the SEC? Would it be just another case of "Oh, everyone puts up those numbers against B12 defenses, look at what WVU and OU have done"?

That's a great point.

Big 12 defenses aren't that great but they have to face the best offenses in college football week in and week out.

The opposite is true of the SEC. SEC offenses aren't very good but they have to face the best defenses in college football.

Basically, the Big 12 has the best offense, evident by three Big 12 rookies starting in the NFL right now, and the SEC has the best defenses.

With that said, great defense beats great offense most of the time. Football is a physical sport and if you can punish teams with strong defense you can wear them down mentally and physically.

Hopefully OU can get a great defense again like they had in 2000 to go along with their offense.

[BlastX21]

@T-Moar

I'm confused. On one hand, you seem upset that Graham Harrel didn't win the Heisman in 08, implying that you wanted him to win it. On the other hand, you say Manziel shouldn't win it because he's an Air Raid QB. Except Harrel, who you apparently wanted to win it, was an Air Raid QB. Whats up?

[T-Moar]

Quote: Originally Posted by BlastX21

@T-Moar I'm confused. On one hand, you seem upset that Graham Harrel didn't win the Heisman in 08, implying that you wanted him to win it. On the other hand, you say Manziel shouldn't win it because he's an Air Raid QB. Except Harrel, who you apparently wanted to win it, was an Air Raid QB. Whats up?

That's my thing - I feel like Harrell had a better season than Manziel, and he didn't win the trophy, and therefore, Manziel shouldn't win the trophy.

[BlastX21]

Quote: Originally Posted by T-Moar

That's my thing - I feel like Harrell had a better season than Manziel, and he didn't win the trophy, and therefore, Manziel shouldn't win the trophy.

But this thread is about who *should* win the Heisman, not who will. Harrel may not have won the Heisman in '08, but according to you, he should have. So the question I have is: based off that, you apparently have no qualms about Air Raid QB's deserving the Heisman. So why doubt Manziel based off him playing in the Air Raid?

[The_Wise_One]

I don't like how one game late in the season decides your fate in the Heisman race. Klein did a lot for a team that had little pure talent. Johnny is a hell of a player but like previous posts have said he played pretty bad when the Aggies lost.

[XFactah416]

It's unfortunate that people are wired this way but everyone remembers Manziel going into Alabama and basically being a superstar. That's the lasting image in people's minds. No doubt Johnny Football is a beast and well worthy of all high praise, but it is quite ironic because up until Baylor Colin Klein was the consensus Heisman. KSU loses (in part due to Klein playing probably his worst game of the season, although arguably his whole team played like garbage) and now Klein is done from the race? What happens if he murders Texas to the tune of 6 TDs?

[T-Moar]

Quote: Originally Posted by XFactah416

It's unfortunate that people are wired this way but everyone remembers Manziel going into Alabama and basically being a superstar. That's the lasting image in people's minds. No doubt Johnny Football is a beast and well worthy of all high praise, but it is quite ironic because up until Baylor Colin Klein was the consensus Heisman. KSU loses (in part due to Klein playing probably his worst game of the season, although arguably his whole team played like garbage) and now Klein is done from the race? What happens if he murders Texas to the tune of 6 TDs?

Going along with this post:

1. I don't think we can put the blame for the Baylor game can be put entirely on Klein's shoulders. K-State scored 24 points in that game, which would have won them any other game except the ones against Oklahoma State and Texas Tech. It isn't Klein's fault the defense gave up almost twice as many points as they had in any game so far this season and almost three times their average, although I'm sure the 3 INTs didn't help.

2. K-State won't murder Texas to the tune of 6 TDs. Their offense isn't built to do that. They only managed to put up 35 on a weak North Texas team.

3. Looking at a few more stats, why is Collin Klein's win over OU any less impressive than Manziel's win over Bama? I mean, if K-State doesn't choke hard against Baylor (and maybe Texas this weekend) OU's 2 losses are to teams that were legitimate contenders for the national title. Sure, Klein didn't put up the stats that Manziel did, but that's more a product of the offense that Snyder runs vs. that of Sumlin.