How to get CPU to stop throwing out of bounds when pressured?

[carnalnirvana]

Quote: Originally Posted by ajra21

yeah, what is the thinking behind this?

i know someone who looks at the game's code and he claimed the carry rating controls the traits or has an impact on it.\

i tried it and thats where i play with my sliders..

try it let me know, maybe its a placebo but thats the only slider i change.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by wellred

Not really dude. Aaron Rodgers did it about 3 times last night whilst standing in the pocket, nobody suggested it should be called because it's not a penalty. He threw the ball out of bounds in the direction of the reciever, just like every other qb in the league does several times a game. Nobody is denying on Madden the ball tends to sail farther out of bounds, but the effect of the play and the intent of the play is still the same and everyone should be aware of that.

The Aaron Rodgers passes are not what we are talking about. Stop trying to equate the two. You are talking about when a QB intentionally overthrows a receiver. We are talking about when a QB intentionally chucks the ball into the stands.

Quote: Originally Posted by wellred

It doesnt get called. It literally only gets called if a QB throws and nobody is within 15 yards of the pass, sometimes not even then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ_1_gzUjgs

If the QB is not under pressure (i.e. no one is open so you sail it) it is not a penalty.

Quote: Originally Posted by wellred

And? I play all madden default sliders, you didnt say what you have cpu pass block set at. All the sliders can effect cpu qb effeciency greatly and if you're seeing weird stuff like the pass rush in the backfield before the cpu can even finish their drop back with enough frequency to think this is a problem Id guess its something with the sliders. On default all madden Ive literally never seen that happen.

You asked what it is set at, I told you. Charter's sliders have pass block at 15.

You've never seen this happen yet you know enough about it to assert it is not intentional grounding?? Come on man.

The defense being in the backfield immediately doesn't happen often at all. But if you do call a overload blitz and get a free rusher the QB will chuck it. Any other blitz that gets quick pressure results in souvenirs for the fans. Generally the only sacks I get are coverage sacks where the QB holds on to the ball longer than 3 seconds. That is not realistic.

Quote: Originally Posted by wellred

So you're already getting plenty of sacks and you're using some pretty paltry passing numbers as an example, and you want the CPU QB to take more sacks? Madden a couple of years ago was unplayable because the CPU would just stand there and take 9 sacks a game. Now they're using a perfectly valid football strategy to avoid taking said sacks, and because the ball travels 5 yards further out of bounds than what you consider reasonable on a throw away, it's a problem? Lol k.

READ MY POSTS. I don't want the QB to take more sacks. I want the QB to try to make plays. I do not want him to say oh its a blitz, throw it to the bench.

Those passing numbers are low because the QB is too conservative. Yet if you leave passing accuracy at default they don't miss their mark in a realistic number of times.

It is not 5 yards out of bounds, jesus you already said you've never seen it. The nearest receiver may be 5 yards past the line of scrimmage, yet the pass is thrown towards the sidelines like like it was a 30 yard post route. Do you not understand that? If instead of being on the sideline we moved that WR to the middle of the field and had the same pass, it would always get flagged.

Quote: Originally Posted by wellred

Because were talking about two different things. I see the qb throw the ball away a good amount. I just dont see em do it on the drop back because my settings are not 'defense in the backfield as soon as the ball is snapped' friendly.

Enough with the smart mouth passive aggressive replies.

You haven't seen it so you don't think it is a problem. Fine. But don't tell people that have seen it that they are wrong and it is exactly what happens in the NFL.

[Sgexpat]

To me this discussion is somewhat missing the point. It is a good thing the CPU QB tried to get rid of the ball before taking a sack.

However the CPU qb's check out if plays way too soon. I've done replay to confirm what's going on, on 4 man rushes I see the CPU QB check out by checking down or throwing out of bounds at the slightest bit of push the DL gets on OL. I don't know why but outside the 2 minute drill I don't see the CPU take anything besides the check down more than 10 percent of the time. Just yesterday I had Mariota go 34-40 against me for an 85 percent completion.

He was checking out of every single play except for a couple big ones in the 2 minute drill.

The CPU overreacts to pressure and does not hang in there and take a shot when it can. Does not challenge 1:1 coverage where their WR has a step, does not often throw into traffic. These problems are all related, the CPU QB is too conservative.

[wellred]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

The Aaron Rodgers passes are not what we are talking about. Stop trying to equate the two. You are talking about when a QB intentionally overthrows a receiver. We are talking about when a QB intentionally chucks the ball into the stands.

You mean like how every QB in the NFL does in the redzone? They throw the ball 10 yards past the back of the endzone whilst in the pocket, intentional grounding isnt called. Because it's not a penalty as there are reciever in the area. This is also reflected in Madden and is essentially the same as what you're complaining about. The part of the field it occurs on is irrelevant.


I am equating the two because they are the same. Aaron Rodgers intended to throw the ball away in the general direction of the reciever, Madden qbs do the same thing.

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

You asked what it is set at, I told you. Charter's sliders have pass block at 15.

I just finished a game, again default all madden. I had 5 sacks, 1 int on a pass forced into coverage, exactly 2 throw aways, both in the area of the reciever out of bounds. Its your settings.

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

You've never seen this happen yet you know enough about it to assert it is not intentional grounding?? Come on man.

Everyone who plays has seen the cpu throw the ball away. That's all the experience one needs. Just because I dont have my pass block settings lower and instantly blow up pass plays doesnt mean Im not seeing them throw the ball away.

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

The defense being in the backfield immediately doesn't happen often at all.

It shouldnt. So I dont see why this should even be a part of the discussion.

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

READ MY POSTS. I don't want the QB to take more sacks. I want the QB to try to make plays. I do not want him to say oh its a blitz, throw it to the bench.

I DID READ YOUR POST. READ MY POSTS. You are seeing an inordinate amount of throwaways its because your settings make the ai suck more than it already does. This is the tradeoff for doing wacky slider alterations, and has always been this way. This year the ai qb is programmed to throw the ball away. That's a *good* thing. The mechanic couldve been designed to throw the ball anywhere they wanted. The design choice was to make the QB throw the ball away torwards a reciever out of bounds. You are not happy with the asthetic of the way this mechanic looks. That is unfortunate but largely irrelevant, as long as it does it's intended job of replicating QB throw aways. Which it does.

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Those passing numbers are low because the QB is too conservative. Yet if you leave passing accuracy at default they don't miss their mark in a realistic number of times.

Because it makes the QB ai suck. Maybe they would attempt to make plays when your defense comes bursting through the line at the snap rather than throw the ball away if the ai felt you hadnt cut one of its arms off also.

That game Im talking about, the CPU went 20/30 298 yard 1TD 1 INT, a 78 yard bomb was the TD pass, the INT also came on a deep pass. There's nothing wrong with leaving cpu accuracy at 50.

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

It is not 5 yards out of bounds, jesus you already said you've never seen it. The nearest receiver may be 5 yards past the line of scrimmage, yet the pass is thrown towards the sidelines like like it was a 30 yard post route. Do you not understand that? If instead of being on the sideline we moved that WR to the middle of the field and had the same pass, it would always get flagged.

I said Ive never seen guys busting through the line untouched before the qb can even finish his drop back. Do you not understand that?

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Enough with the smart mouth passive aggressive replies.

lol You wanna multiquote peoples posts and talk like that and you expect to never get called on it in the same fashion? k. Sorry I hurt your feelings because I dont agree with you about a video game lol.

[caseyj622]

Quote: Originally Posted by wellred

You mean like how every QB in the NFL does in the redzone? They throw the ball 10 yards past the back of the endzone whilst in the pocket, intentional grounding isnt called. Because it's not a penalty as there are reciever in the area. This is also reflected in Madden and is essentially the same as what you're complaining about. The part of the field it occurs on is irrelevant. I am equating the two because they are the same. Aaron Rodgers intended to throw the ball away in the general direction of the reciever, Madden qbs do the same thing. I just finished a game, again default all madden. I had 5 sacks, 1 int on a pass forced into coverage, exactly 2 throw aways, both in the area of the reciever out of bounds. Its your settings. Everyone who plays has seen the cpu throw the ball away. That's all the experience one needs. Just because I dont have my pass block settings lower and instantly blow up pass plays doesnt mean Im not seeing them throw the ball away. It shouldnt. So I dont see why this should even be a part of the discussion. I DID READ YOUR POST. READ MY POSTS. You are seeing an inordinate amount of throwaways its because your settings make the ai suck more than it already does. This is the tradeoff for doing wacky slider alterations, and has always been this way. This year the ai qb is programmed to throw the ball away. That's a *good* thing. The mechanic couldve been designed to throw the ball anywhere they wanted. The design choice was to make the QB throw the ball away torwards a reciever out of bounds. You are not happy with the asthetic of the way this mechanic looks. That is unfortunate but largely irrelevant, as long as it does it's intended job of replicating QB throw aways. Which it does. Because it makes the QB ai suck. Maybe they would attempt to make plays when your defense comes bursting through the line at the snap rather than throw the ball away if the ai felt you hadnt cut one of its arms off also. That game Im talking about, the CPU went 20/30 298 yard 1TD 1 INT, a 78 yard bomb was the TD pass, the INT also came on a deep pass. There's nothing wrong with leaving cpu accuracy at 50. I said Ive never seen guys busting through the line untouched before the qb can even finish his drop back. Do you not understand that? lol You wanna multiquote peoples posts and talk like that and you expect to never get called on it in the same fashion? k. Sorry I hurt your feelings because I dont agree with you about a video game lol.

The sliders I use actually makes the CPU way tougher. You would get blown out every game if you play on all madden default and then tried the sliders. I have CPU pass block at 0 as well as user pass block and let me tell you....Very rarely does anyone ever just bursts through the line like you are trying to interpret.

All Madden default makes user QB wayyyyy too accurate. My accuracy is set at 5. Wayyyy too easy to run through holes. My run block is set to 0. very rarely are there any penalties..the pass rush is atrocious. The user run blocking is way too good and easy.

Elite defensive fronts in the NFL are one of the biggest game changers in football....that is not represented on default at all...the pocket is a joke.......could go on on and on. For a skilled player, default is way too easy and not realistic at all. I could run for 300 yards a game if i felt like it.

You seem to be assuming messing with sliders just nerfs the AI. Yeah, sure that can be done. Some here are more geared to make things more REALISTIC and difficult. You should stop acting like leaving the sliders at default all madden makes you think you are playing a superior AI. That's not the case at all. If i didn't nerf my user sliders way down and just played default all madden, I'd go 16-0 every year and quit from boredom.

[wellred]

Quote: Originally Posted by caseyj622

The sliders I use actually makes the CPU way tougher. You would get blown out every game if you play on all madden default and then tried the sliders. I have CPU pass block at 0 as well as user pass block and let me tell you....Very rarely does anyone ever just bursts through the line like you are trying to interpret. All Madden default makes user QB wayyyyy too accurate. My accuracy is set at 5. Wayyyy too easy to run through holes. My run block is set to 0. very rarely are there any penalties..the pass rush is atrocious. The user run blocking is way too good and easy. Elite defensive fronts in the NFL are one of the biggest game changers in football....that is not represented on default at all...the pocket is a joke.......could go on on and on. For a skilled player, default is way too easy and not realistic at all. I could run for 300 yards a game if i felt like it. You seem to be assuming messing with sliders just nerfs the AI. Yeah, sure that can be done. Some here are more geared to make things more REALISTIC and difficult. You should stop acting like leaving the sliders at default all madden makes you think you are playing a superior AI. That's not the case at all. If i didn't nerf my user sliders way down and just played default all madden, I'd go 16-0 every year and quit from boredom.

That's super awesome and stuff. You should stop acting like your sliders are the spooky blair witch project. Pretty sure I would wreck them just by calling plays all day that I know the cpu cant stop no matter what you do, so could most other people if they wanted to run the same 6 plays all game, that isnt the point. Yes I could also run for 300 yards per game on default All Madden if I wanted and yadda yadda yadda. That's nice dear, our dads are going to have a theoretical brawl any minute now.


No your sliders dont 'improve' the ai, the ai is a script that responds to variables and executes an action based on the outcome of those variables. You can only change the frequency that certain variables occur, not the criteria. By lowering the CPU accuracy it lowers the frequency that the CPU will feel comfortable taking chances in the passing game. But there's other criteria such as how far the defender is from a reciever and etc. etc. There are lots of them. All those variables can be impacted by the sliders, penalty sliders, so on so forth. I was pointing out the obvious draw backs in the more conventional sliders. Yes we know you've probably done some funky stuff with the penalty sliders or whatever, its not a big black ops secret, but your sliders also would have innate weaknesses that can be exploited, they just arent well documented because Im sure not many people use them. But keep pluggin, maybe that will change.

[caseyj622]

haha okay. I'd love to see you destroy the elite defensive teams using generic playbooks for the cpu with cpu D reaction/coverage/int/tackle at 100 on fast speed when your running with 0 user pass block and 0 user run block and your qb accuracy at 5. Keep running the same 6 plays and see how that works out for you. The sliders are actually based off of Jarrods black set and not mine, its just a slightly modified version. Definitely not for someone who plays on default all madden. Good luck exploiting the cpu with those.

[wellred]

Quote: Originally Posted by caseyj622

haha okay. I'd love to see you destroy the elite defensive teams using generic playbooks for the cpu with cpu D reaction/coverage/int/tackle at 100 on fast speed when your running with 0 user pass block and 0 user run block and your qb accuracy at 5. Keep running the same 6 plays and see how that works out for you. The sliders are actually based off of Jarrods black set and not mine, its just a slightly modified version. Definitely not for someone who plays on default all madden. Good luck exploiting the cpu with those.

Kay bruv dont get so worked up, you're playing a pretty basic cpu ai script, just like the rest of us are. it will be OK.



I play better on fast speed anyways. It doesnt sound too hard, Im pretty sure Id wreck it. But thanks for your input.

PS. Im genuinely curious why the decision to play on fast speed? With fast speed defender will reveal and abandon their zone responsibilities obviously much faster, enabling the user to react quickly to those visual cues rather than wait the extra second to see how the defense will truly unfold in response to the offensive play, actually giving the human player an advantage while providing the cpu, being not human, no demonstrable benefit. It's just one of those things that is counter intuitive, so Im wondering why you're under the impression fast mode is harder? It sounds like you've created an NFL version of a benny hill turkey shoot.