Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

What's being lost in this whole argument is the fact that we have seen Madden WITH competition and the series was at it's best, now without it's at it's worst. Now does that mean that competition is going to automatically make the game better? Not immediately, but it will. Whether anyone likes to believe it or not, EA Sports is a company full of talent and the developers of the Madden games are good at they're jobs, you don't get where they are without being that. That said it's not like they're incapable of making a good game because we've seen it done before. It's as close to a guarantee as you can get that Madden would improve with competition because Madden is and always will be EA's cash cow and biggest property. All the resources will always go to that series first over any other and if Madden is truly in danger of falling out of the top football game spot EA will do what it takes to keep it on top. If Madden was always the only game in town then arguing that competition wouldn't make it better would make sense because we have no history to draw from for that genre, however we've seen Madden when it's got other NFL games breathing down it's neck and we got the best of the series during that time. Using the NBA doesn't count for anything because Live has never been EA's baby, it's never been THE game at the company, Madden, NHL, MVP and Fifa have always been EA's priority. Live suffered as long as it did because EA didn't give a crap about the franchise as long as Madden, NHL, etc. flourished. Bottomline it's not a slam dunk that competition will make the game better, however anyone saying that it will has more ground to stand on than anyone trying to argue otherwise cause two of the best NFL football games of all time are generally considered to be NFL 2K5 and Madden 2005.

This is a classic cause of fallacy of causation. In other words, "There were better versions of Madden when Madden had competition, therefore it was obviously competition that made those games better, and if competition comes back, it WILL be better again guaranteed." Umm... no lol.

Competition guarantees, or "close to guarantees" as you put it, nothing. Competition guarantees nothing but choice. If competition guaranteed great products, then we'd just have great products everywhere there is competition. The fact that we don't, proves that it guarantees nothing.

You can give as many examples of competition "making" an EA sports title great as you want. I need only provide ONE example where competition did not result in a great game to prove my point. If you say that mating 2 black rabbits always results in a black rabbit offspring, I only need to show ONE example where this does not happen. You can show a 100 trillion examples where this does, but the ONE that I show is enough to prove that that assertion is untrue. This is the same situation.

EA has made many sports games, with comp, that were not perceived at large to be good titles, so to say that comp guarantees or even "close to guarantees" a great Madden, is just false.

And the last time I checked, Basketball was more popular than Hockey in this country. So why you think that EA doesn't care about Basketball but really, really cares about Hockey, I don't understand. It is just you trying to rationalize away an example of EA putting out a bad product, WITH comp, and saying, yeah that don't count cause they don't care about B-ball lol.

If people want to believe that comp would light a fire under EA/Tiburon and that they would put forth more effort, then I could some what understand that argument. I may not necessarily agree with it, but I would understand. But said effort, does not HAVE to produce great results. There are many games that are just plain bad, and it isn't for lack of effort.

Some people think that it will "force" EA/Tiburon to make a better game. Someone could hold a gun to your head and tell you make me a great Football game or else. Unfortunately for you in that scenario, it doesn't mean that you will.

Competition guarantees nothing but choice.

[kjcheezhead]

Competition would make a better Madden game simply by offering that choice. If 2k made a godawful game, Madden instant becomes a better game to the consumer without changing a thing because people will choose it over a bad 2k game. If 2k makes a great alternative, EA would be forced to make madden a much better game or go the way of NBA elite.

Either scenario produces a better football game for the gamers, at least in thier mind's eye.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

Competition would make a better Madden game simply by offering that choice. If 2k made a godawful game, Madden instant becomes a better game to the consumer without changing a thing because people will choose it over a bad 2k game. If 2k makes a great alternative, EA would be forced to make madden a much better game or go the way of NBA elite. Either scenario produces a better football game for the gamers, at least in thier mind's eye.

There go those terms, like "forced" again. You can't force EA/Tiburon to do anything. If they can make a great game, they can. If they can't, they can't. Nothing that the competition does will change that fact. Not by threatening to take away sales. Not even by threatening their physical person.

Your last sentence makes me think that you weren't totally serious with this post, but I'm not sure. In any even, comp will never "force" EA/Tiburon to make a better game.

You can't get blood from a turnip.

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

What's being lost in this whole argument is the fact that we have seen Madden WITH competition and the series was at it's best, now without it's at it's worst. Now does that mean that competition is going to automatically make the game better? Not immediately, but it will. Whether anyone likes to believe it or not, EA Sports is a company full of talent and the developers of the Madden games are good at they're jobs, you don't get where they are without being that. That said it's not like they're incapable of making a good game because we've seen it done before........

Se Roadman, this is what I was talking about, people that are convinced competition = improvement.

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

.......Competition guarantees nothing but choice.

Exactly!

Now, IMO, I dont see where competitors made EA produce something better.

Quote: Originally Posted by tlc12576

Yeah they have innovated with competition but I don't think it is BECAUSE of competition. EA has "innovated" next-gen Madden without competition but that hasnt translated all that well into making it a better game, IMO. When I think of competition making something better, I think of one game doing something better one year and then the other game trying to outdo them in that area next year. Like if Game A had a better presentation than Game B, the next year Game B works hard to make their presentation better than Game A. However, that's not what EA does with its' sport titles. If a competitors game does something better, EA just tries to add something totally different to their game. That doesn't make much sense to me when we are talking about sports titles, both games are supposed to be "simulating" the actual sport. If Game A has a good tackling animations, Game B should strive for a better tackling animations, not "innovate" a new tackling system that's incomplete and looks WORSE.

I personally don't understand why some people think Madden 2005 or the NHL series were good games BECAUSE of competition. IMO, EA "makes it do what it do", competition or not. LOL

I guess some of you guys been asleep since the exclusive license happened or have really short memories. Im not talking about the devs but the powers that be at EA don't seem to even care much what EA consumers want in EA sports games, so I doubt they would let the competition dictate it.

Also, please spare me the talk about competition making Madden better because EA doesn't want to lose money. EA doesn't think like us average joes, if we were losing money from making something, most of us would try to make it better to attract more people. However, EA just continues to "innovate" their games to add more casuals and "monetize" their consumers, year round.

I think alot of us are nostalgic for the way business used to be but it's a new day my friends.

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

Competition would make a better Madden game simply by offering that choice. If 2k made a godawful game, Madden instant becomes a better game to the consumer without changing a thing because people will choose it over a bad 2k game. If 2k makes a great alternative, EA would be forced to make madden a much better game or go the way of NBA elite. Either scenario produces a better football game for the gamers, at least in thier mind's eye.

I guess this is why I need another NFL game so badly. I don't compare sports titles DIRECTLY to each other, I compare how they simulate the actual sport in comparision. I could careless what ANY companies artisitc vision or "innovation" is for the game if it doesn't SIMULATE the sport properly.

NFL 2k5 is a better game than Madden, IMO, because of the ways it did a good job of simulating NFL football. If 10 different companies made NFL games, good or bad would be decided how well they SIMULATE the actual NFL.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

There go those terms, like "forced" again. You can't force EA/Tiburon to do anything. If they can make a great game, they can. If they can't, they can't. Nothing that the competition does will change that fact. Not by threatening to take away sales. Not even by threatening their physical person. Your last sentence makes me think that you weren't totally serious with this post, but I'm not sure. In any even, comp will never "force" EA/Tiburon to make a better game. You can't get blood from a turnip.

It's like this, if I make my living selling coffee and someone opens a shop next door which offers better tasting coffee at a lower price, I have to adjust what I'm doing. I have to change my coffee, my price, offer free donuts, put my baristas in bikinis...something in order to stay in business. I'm "forced" to improve or go out of business.

If someone opens a coffee shop next door with higher prices, crappy coffee and terrible service...then my coffee shop suddenly seems a whole lot better to the customers. They stop complaining about the things I do wrong because my shop is better than my competitions.

Either way, the customers are happier than they were when my shop was the only choice. My last sentence was talking about this phenomena.

[Senator Palmer]

I just had to thrown this in. I am absolutely in love with your sig, tlc12576!

This is why I can't accept the excuses, because I know what Madden could be.

"So many developers out there tend to ignore their franchise modes for years on end. At 2K, we realize this is where you spend the majority of your time, so we are constantly working to improve the experience year-over-year."
Erick Boenisch
- a.k.a. SimBaller

[ryan36]

Competition would make EA make a better game. The things that are broken, would be slightly more fixed. I think we're talking the difference between a B- and B+ game.

Yes, if the dev team is already idiots and incapable of making a good game, then they would not be better even with competition. I do not believe this to be the case. I believe this dev team with what they want to do are slogging through sewage trying to pan for gold. They can get it done, but not with the antiquated code from prior lame builds.

I believe competition would cause more resources to be funneled into Madden's hands, and the whole "we don't have time" thing would be blown out the window. Maybe even a new build. Who knows?