Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

11:18 PM - March 9, 2010 by splff3000

IGN has posted some Madden NFL 11 hints from the EA Season Opener.

Quote:


	"The average game took 63 minutes in Madden NFL 10, despite the fact that players were only playing football for 17 of those minutes. EA Sports promised that they'll deliver a faster experience in Madden NFL 11 for those who want to sit down and play for a few minutes and then get up and move on to the next activity. They gave no indication of how this would be accomplished, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager that they'll be adding a "hurry up" option to the list of presentation settings similar to what we see in this year's crop of MLB titles. Another interesting factoid had to do with playcalling. Madden NFL 10 included 330 plays. The average user used 13 of them. I'm not exactly sure how they're going to get people to explore the playbook, but some sort of simplification is clearly needed."

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Member Comments

# 101 KBLover @ 03/11/10 02:03 PM

Basically, making football a rock-paper-scissors type RTS counter system?

I don't know if I like that.

The only "counter system" I want in Madden or any football game is one that is like real life - i.e. zone coverages work against some routes, but weaker against others, blitzes challenge certain gaps and are "countered" with certain protection schemes, etc along with having to work with physical matchups, and so on.

Not Play A counters Play B so that play A almost never works - never mind if in the real game or what Play B's scheme is really would "counter" Play A so successfully.

Also where would personnel fit in a "play counter" system? Would weak players in a play that "counters" the offenses play suddenly be super good? Would that be "sim" play?

As far as TSB goes, having played it again, I think it's too feast or famine. You pick the play, it has nearly 100% chance of failing. Otherwise, it has a very high chance of success. For example, I pick a pass play and the AI picked a different pass play - my defenders are clueless. They leave 2 WR out of 3 uncovered and typically struggle to put pressure simply because I didn't pick the exact play? I know Tecmo isn't going for super-realism so I'm not bashing it, but I don't know if I want a similar kind of system in a game that's supposedly looking for realism.

Now if Madden is just Tecmo with 3-D graphics, well I'll just go play Tecmo

# 102 BezO @ 03/11/10 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL


	I definitely agree with the 3 replies above. My bigest concern is the areas they are focusing on. The reason why many online players seem to use a small handfull of plays is simply because of how Madden's A.I is not up to par. Let me explain. Gamers will use a play over and over that has a good success rate, and that is becuase madden has not done a good job in giving us plays that combat those plays. Thus making the decision for many to use the same plays over and over easy with no regrets.

I agree with the reasons, but not the remedy, especially for defense. We don't need counte "plays". We need the ability to scheme... AKA tiered play calling.

# 103 ANDROMADA 1 @ 03/11/10 02:13 PM

Nice post CK, I especially agree about the PA being overdone, considering most guys don't even bother establishing the run first. I mean who is that play fooling? There should be a legit counter to everything. Including milking the clock. As it is now the "hurry" up offense is only good for about 3 plays then your players are toast. I hope they tune the "hurry up" as well for M11.

# 104 Rashad19 @ 03/11/10 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezO


	I agree with the reasons, but not the remedy, especially for defense. We don't need counte "plays". We need the ability to scheme... AKA tiered play calling.

Bezo not trying to be smart here but exactly how would tiered play calling allow us to scheme better than what we currently have available to us in Madden 10?

# 105 ODogg @ 03/11/10 02:24 PM

Rocky - I meant grow the market internally...in other words, I'm not saying bring other non-sports gamers into sports gaming online, that's never going to happen. I'm saying that there's a huge amount of offline sports games players that should be able to be brought into online gaming. A lot of folks don't want to play online because of the way others play, but that's also a problem for FPS as well. Companies that make sports games should study FPS to see how that aspect can be minimized.

# 106 oneamongthefence @ 03/11/10 02:34 PM

Last year Ian stated that he hopes that a football coach who has never played madden and someone who has played madden for years can compete and have a close game. If they continue to work towards that goal things can only go upwards from there. Where basic football logic and strategy can shutdown someone who has stick skills or has a predictable
Offense.

# 107 BezO @ 03/11/10 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashad19


	Bezo not trying to be smart here but exactly how would tiered play calling allow us to scheme better than what we currently have available to us in Madden 10?

Just in case, let me reiterate how I want it tiered. We should be able to call a front, then call a stunt/blitz package(either seperately or together, then call the coverage.

This would allow for almost unlimited combinations. So instead of searching for what you want and likely not finding it, you put it together. You want a 4-3, weakside DE/DT loop, WOLB blitz, cover 1? Just put it together.

My experience has been that I have defensive ideas in my head, but can never find the "play" in the playbook. Depending on what I'm trying to stop that play, the coverage or the stunts/blitzes may be more important. So I pick a play with something close and settle for whatever else EA packaged with it. I shouldn't have to use EA's blitz/stunt package just because I want to play cover 1 free. And I shouldn't have to use a certain coverage because it's packaged with the blitz I want.

IRL, defensive coordinators are not limited by a set of plays. They have fronts, stunts, blitzes & coverages that they can combine in any way they want. That's what we should have.

Now, no disrespect to you, nor anyone that may have learned this way, but many folks learned about football through Madden. Many of those folks may not know how it should work. But they do know it's limiting, so they use the position audibles(forget what they're called) to get the defense they really want not realizing there's a tried and true way the NFL, college, HS & little leagues have been using since the beginning of (football)time.

# 108 north dallas @ 03/11/10 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	Well said CreatineKasey - there is no AI that will probably happen in our lifetimes that will equal the human intelligence in both logic, skill and unpredictability. That's not EA's fault, that's simply the fact across the board for all video games today. And if you think it's EA's game AI then simply peek into a FPS thread sometime and read how people complain about the computer controlled enemies and squad mates vs. those of playing with their buddies.

I couldn't disagree more. Please don't let EA off the hook that quickly. There is decent to good AI in several sports games. By example, check out MLB the show or College Hoops 2k8. I am not intending to bash EA, but the truth of the matter is that they continue to fall behind the curve on AI and almost all other aspects of the game. Frankly, Madden has barely developed in the past five or six years.

# 109 randers @ 03/11/10 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezO


	Just in case, let me reiterate how I want it tiered. We should be able to call a front, then call a stunt/blitz package(either seperately or together, then call the coverage. This would allow for almost unlimited combinations. So instead of searching for what you want and likely not finding it, you put it together. You want a 4-3, weakside DE/DT loop, WOLB blitz, cover 1? Just put it together. My experience has been that I have defensive ideas in my head, but can never find the "play" in the playbook. Depending on what I'm trying to stop that play, the coverage or the stunts/blitzes may be more important. So I pick a play with something close and settle for whatever else EA packaged with it. I shouldn't have to use EA's blitz/stunt package just because I want to play cover 1 free. And I shouldn't have to use a certain coverage because it's packaged with the blitz I want. IRL, defensive coordinators are not limited by a set of plays. They have fronts, stunts, blitzes & coverages that they can combine in any way they want. That's what we should have. Now, no disrespect to you, nor anyone that may have learned this way, but many folks learned about football through Madden. Many of those folks may not know how it should work. But they do know it's limiting, so they use the position audibles(forget what they're called) to get the defense they really want not realizing there's a tried and true way the NFL, college, HS & little leagues have been using since the beginning of (football)time.

they implemented defensive hot routes. It's a pretty cool tool that allows you to create your D.

It takes time to get efficient at using it effectively, but once you do it is very rewarding.

# 110 Rashad19 @ 03/11/10 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezO


	Just in case, let me reiterate how I want it tiered. We should be able to call a front, then call a stunt/blitz package(either separately or together, then call the coverage. This would allow for almost unlimited combinations. So instead of searching for what you want and likely not finding it, you put it together. You want a 4-3, weakside DE/DT loop, WOLB blitz, cover 1? Just put it together. My experience has been that I have defensive ideas in my head, but can never find the "play" in the playbook. Depending on what I'm trying to stop that play, the coverage or the stunts/blitzes may be more important. So I pick a play with something close and settle for whatever else EA packaged with it. I shouldn't have to use EA's blitz/stunt package just because I want to play cover 1 free. And I shouldn't have to use a certain coverage because it's packaged with the blitz I want. IRL, defensive coordinators are not limited by a set of plays. They have fronts, stunts, blitzes & coverages that they can combine in any way they want. That's what we should have. Now, no disrespect to you, nor anyone that may have learned this way, but many folks learned about football through Madden. Many of those folks may not know how it should work. But they do know it's limiting, so they use the position audibles(forget what they're called) to get the defense they really want not realizing there's a tried and true way the NFL, college, HS & little leagues have been using since the beginning of (football)time.

No disrespect taken Bezo...I played college ball except on the offensive side of the ball. I'm familiar with tiered play calling but assumed that position audibles was basically the same thing with more work involved. Thus everyone requesting tiered play calling was mostly looking to save time. Anyway, thanks for the quick knowledge session.

I would love to have tiered play calling in Madden 11 but if there is no gap control, stunts/delayed blitzes are not functional, and players don't defend their zones then we are back to square one with respect to people only using a handful of plays. As things stand right now there are too many game-play issues that hinder our play calls. I don't call certain plays because I know no matter what the circumstances are they will not work ever.

I'm not for the Tecmo Bowl style of countering your opponent. But I am for your defense or offense recognizing a play that has been ran 10 times and beating/stuffing it!

# 111 ODogg @ 03/11/10 04:26 PM

I'm not letting anyone off the hook, just saying that AI even approaching human intelligence is not even close at hand, yet some of act as if it is. Yes the AI in some games are better than others but bottom line is playing a human is always your best bet for an intelligent opponent. That's why I'd like to see more folks get online and play. Right now there's too large of a chunk of the online crowd that are not exactly a desirable demographic, if you know what I mean.

# 112 CardsFan52 @ 03/11/10 04:51 PM

Yeah its always painful to get on offense first and you see the same sight, which is someone playing quarters all game or running that d that has ten people back in coverage.

Painful.

# 113 CreatineKasey @ 03/11/10 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardsFan52


	Yeah its always painful to get on offense first and you see the same sight, which is someone playing quarters all game or running that d that has ten people back in coverage. Painful.

Yep. Real teams would run a dive for 10 yards and laugh as they score in 4 plays. Also, real defenses couldn't afford to play that way and never would anyway. Real defenses read pass or run and react accordingly. Players in Madden backpedal into their zone regardless if it's a pass or a run. This is weird to me. Isn't the pass and run two separate facets of defense?

Pass D has space (zone) or man responsibilities. Run D has pursuit and gap responsibilities. It's two different things I think? Those aren't effectively represented in Madden at this time.

# 114 ANDROMADA 1 @ 03/11/10 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	Yep. Real teams would run a dive for 10 yards and laugh as they score in 4 plays. Also, real defenses couldn't afford to play that way and never would anyway. Real defenses read pass or run and react accordingly. Players in Madden backpedal into their zone regardless if it's a pass or a run. This is weird to me. Isn't the pass and run two separate facets of defense? Pass D has space (zone) or man responsibilities. Run D has pursuit and gap responsibilities. It's two different things I think? Those aren't effectively represented in Madden at this time.

I hope that is addressed as well CK. Its as if there is no difference between a pass defense play and a run defense play.(in General)

# 115 ODogg @ 03/11/10 08:28 PM

Dude 2k football is dead, let it go

# 116 splff3000 @ 03/11/10 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezO


	Just in case, let me reiterate how I want it tiered. We should be able to call a front, then call a stunt/blitz package(either seperately or together, then call the coverage. This would allow for almost unlimited combinations. So instead of searching for what you want and likely not finding it, you put it together. You want a 4-3, weakside DE/DT loop, WOLB blitz, cover 1? Just put it together. My experience has been that I have defensive ideas in my head, but can never find the "play" in the playbook. Depending on what I'm trying to stop that play, the coverage or the stunts/blitzes may be more important. So I pick a play with something close and settle for whatever else EA packaged with it. I shouldn't have to use EA's blitz/stunt package just because I want to play cover 1 free. And I shouldn't have to use a certain coverage because it's packaged with the blitz I want. IRL, defensive coordinators are not limited by a set of plays. They have fronts, stunts, blitzes & coverages that they can combine in any way they want. That's what we should have. Now, no disrespect to you, nor anyone that may have learned this way, but many folks learned about football through Madden. Many of those folks may not know how it should work. But they do know it's limiting, so they use the position audibles(forget what they're called) to get the defense they really want not realizing there's a tried and true way the NFL, college, HS & little leagues have been using since the beginning of (football)time.

This!!

There were a few things that I liked about 2k and a few that I didn't like. One thing that I loved though was the tiered defensive play calling. Now I never played HS, college, or pro ball,( played middle school though

) but I could definitely see the advantage of tiered playcalling. It was perfect for someone like me who likes to try to give the offense a different look almost everytime we get on the field. I'm not a stick skill guy by any means. I'm one of the guys that try to win with a better strategy than you. That's ok when I'm on offense on Madden, but when I'm on defense, a lot of times, I feel like I'm in a cage lol. There are so many times that I want to have my D-line do one thing and have my secondary do another but can't find a play with the combination I want. This is quite frustrating especially if your opponent gets a big gain. Another thing I like about the tiered play calling is I can come out in what ever shell I want to. If I want to show cover 4, even though I'm blitzing, I can. I really would like to see some form of tiered play calling in the future. I'm tired of being trapped in this cage.

# 117 KBLover @ 03/11/10 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	Yes the AI in some games are better than others but bottom line is playing a human is always your best bet for an intelligent opponent.

The bottom line is that EA needs to improve their AI and/or open up how it thinks to being modified by gamers so that they can create their own AI players.

When EA's AI is top level and pushing the limits of Game AI - then we can talk about EA being hampered by limits of game-purpose AI.

The fact AI isn't as good as a human isn't relevant to the fact EA's AI needs help and needs to be improved - and those improvements, imo, are not close to pushing the limits of game AI.

Playing a human isn't going to make the other 10 players that other human isn't playing behave/think/play any better. Improving the player AI will.

# 118 kjcheezhead @ 03/11/10 09:36 PM

Here's why the average person uses just a handful of plays.

http://www.youtube.com/user/versuz2#p/u/170/Q24KR9dQl8I

Adaptive AI where were you on this vid?

# 119 roadman @ 03/11/10 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	I here's why the average person uses just a handful of plays. http://www.youtube.com/user/versuz2#p/u/170/Q24KR9dQl8I Adaptive AI where were on this vid?

Yep, seen that one before.

# 120 roadman @ 03/11/10 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeyland


	So voice the assist. coaches, work on the play selection screen, then get ready for more negative noise from the community.

So, you think this is all Madden is implementing for 11 this year? Or is it that we haven't heard all the meat and potatoes, yet?

Why not wait before casting stones all over the place and see what is being offered.

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