Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

08:12 AM - July 29, 2010 by Steve_OS

GoMadden has just posted this Madden NFL 11 video on strategy pad criticisms.

Quote:


	"If there is one thing fans can�t complain about in regards to the strategy pad, it�s that Creative Director Ian Cummings hasn�t been listening. In fact, over the last few days he has communicated with fans and taken messages on Twitter at a rate we would probably be best not to imagine. While a blog detailing the changes is expected to come soon in an attempt to quell knee-jerk concerns, I think there are some fundamental deficiencies to the strategy pad that warrant at least an option for players to revert to the old style."

Game: Madden NFL 11Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments

# 21 joec63 @ 07/29/10 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	I can see a HUGE class action lawsuit in the making if it's not patched to give players the option. Later

Seriously? lol

# 22 DaveDQ @ 07/29/10 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyboxer


	That just begs the question. *Do people really want Madden to change or is it just the cool thing to say these days?*

I think this Strategy Pad drama has given ammunition to the masses of people who don't like Madden. Some hate Madden and they really can't say why (at least not in a coherent fashion). Many are still jaded over the exclusivity deal. I'm certain that is the foundation to much of why many dislike the title. This issue with the Strategy Pad seems to allow many to jump on board and join the shouts against the Madden title.

I find it interesting and somewhat frustrating though that this Strategy Pad is snowballing into a huge pre-release issue when in fact this game continues to struggle with more important issues. You don't have to look far in this demo to see how awful the tackling is and how defenders are literally rolling off of the ball carrier. I don't understand why this isn't at the top of the simulation gamer's list. Yet, a feature that is usable (while a steep learning curve) like the Strategy Pad already has talks of letters and petitions.

I want the game to change where the change is an absolute identifier of a major gaming issue. Tackling is that issue and it has yet to be seriously addressed. The Strategy Pad is changing the way the buttons are mapped for pre-snap adjustments. It is change but the question for me is, "Was it essential?"

# 23 jeremym480 @ 07/29/10 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	I'm on the PS3 now, but I used to host several tournaments on the 360 and was forced to understand the game on both systems... The problem with having the Strategy Pad on the inside for the 360 is the repetitive motion of the thumb saddle joint. The fleshy portion of the thumb muscle is designed for gripping things toward the palm, not pushing away from it. The strategy pad on the 360 will create symptoms similar to Carpel Tunnel Syndrome for some players as they push against the larger muscle group for the thumb to make changes throughout the play... I can see a HUGE class action lawsuit in the making if it's not patched to give players the option. Later

# 24 ODogg @ 07/29/10 10:36 AM

DaveDQ - The reason the strategy pad is such a huge issue, and way ahead of some of the other issues you mention (which are legitimate issues btw) is that control is one thing that, if it's wrong, is more noticed than anything else. A player may or may not have issue with how a tackle is performed but if they press a button and it don't work, or if you change the button they are required to press, it's frustration at a base level.

It's not something you sit and look at and speculate about as you do the other issues, such as graphics or tackles or sideline catches or roster sizes, it's something that is an issue that keeps you from being able to experience the game without frustration on every single play. Because on every single play you use the controller to interact with the game so any control issues will ALWAYS be a much higher priority and issue for players across the board than ANYTHING else.

That's just how it is and that's why there is so much outrage over the Strategy Pad this year vs. people being frustrated about other issues, which as I said, are certainly real issues.

# 25 jamaster14 @ 07/29/10 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	I think this Strategy Pad drama has given ammunition to the masses of people who don't like Madden. Some hate Madden and they really can't say why (at least not in a coherent fashion). Many are still jaded over the exclusivity deal. I'm certain that is the foundation to much of why many dislike the title. This issue with the Strategy Pad seems to allow many to jump on board and join the shouts against the Madden title. I find it interesting and somewhat frustrating though that this Strategy Pad is snowballing into a huge pre-release issue when in fact this game continues to struggle with more important issues. You don't have to look far in this demo to see how awful the tackling is and how defenders are literally rolling off of the ball carrier. I don't understand why this isn't at the top of the simulation gamer's list. Yet, a feature that is usable (while a steep learning curve) like the Strategy Pad already has talks of letters and petitions. I want the game to change where the change is an absolute identifier of a major gaming issue. Tackling is that issue and it has yet to be seriously addressed. The Strategy Pad is changing the way the buttons are mapped for pre-snap adjustments. It is change but the question for me is, "Was it essential?"

for me, i can not even comment on stuff like tackling, because im unable to get passed the controls. if you are unable to get passed the controls or hate how stuff is inputted, nothing else matters. it could be the best game ever or worst game ever but if you cant/wont interact with it, its kind of moot.

for me, the strat pad makes it unplayable. especially because i already know how easy, fun, and effortless the controls can be when done how they have been in the past

# 26 Superrandy @ 07/29/10 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	I find it interesting and somewhat frustrating though that this Strategy Pad is snowballing into a huge pre-release issue when in fact this game continues to struggle with more important issues. You don't have to look far in this demo to see how awful the tackling is and how defenders are literally rolling off of the ball carrier. I don't understand why this isn't at the top of the simulation gamer's list. Yet, a feature that is usable (while a steep learning curve) like the Strategy Pad already has talks of letters and petitions. I want the game to change where the change is an absolute identifier of a major gaming issue. Tackling is that issue and it has yet to be seriously addressed. The Strategy Pad is changing the way the buttons are mapped for pre-snap adjustments. It is change but the question for me is, "Was it essential?"

Every year EA acts like they care what we want, they ask what we'd like to see changed, fixed, added, etc. They fix 1 or 2 things and add a bunch of stuff nobody wanted. No one wanted the new camera angle. Strategy pad streamlines things but it gives away your audibles and takes longer than the old configuration. The CPU snapping the ball too quick has been an issue in the past that was eventually patched, yet it's back again. Gameflow is really just a customizable, glorified ask madden.

They don't add anything to the game modes. Offline franchise has less features than Madden 2004. Online franchise still doesn't have a salary cap, or a correct free agency. Superstar mode is a joke.

Gameplay problems still abound. Tackling is terrible. Animations on defense are the same ones for the past 5 years. DB's still don't look at the ball when they track it and knock it down. LB's still make magical 20ft leaps for interceptions. The defensive line play is terrible, DT's do almost nothing. Defensive players constantly run the opposite way of the play; making it appear the game is cheating you.

# 27 jamaster14 @ 07/29/10 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	DaveDQ - The reason the strategy pad is such a huge issue, and way ahead of some of the other issues you mention (which are legitimate issues btw) is that control is one thing that, if it's wrong, is more noticed than anything else. A player may or may not have issue with how a tackle is performed but if they press a button and it don't work, or if you change the button they are required to press, it's frustration at a base level. It's not something you sit and look at and speculate about as you do the other issues, such as graphics or tackles or sideline catches or roster sizes, it's something that is an issue that keeps you from being able to experience the game without frustration on every single play. Because on every single play you use the controller to interact with the game so any control issues will ALWAYS be a much higher priority and issue for players across the board than ANYTHING else. That's just how it is and that's why there is so much outrage over the Strategy Pad this year vs. people being frustrated about other issues, which as I said, are certainly real issues.

yes, this is basically what i was trying to say.... for example try playing the PC version of madden from 2008 usng the keyboard instead of the controller. doesnt matter how good or bad the game is when you have to press shift+ctrl+ Z to throw the ball

# 28 Skyboxer @ 07/29/10 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	I think this Strategy Pad drama has given ammunition to the masses of people who don't like Madden. Some hate Madden and they really can't say why (at least not in a coherent fashion). Many are still jaded over the exclusivity deal. I'm certain that is the foundation to much of why many dislike the title. This issue with the Strategy Pad seems to allow many to jump on board and join the shouts against the Madden title. I find it interesting and somewhat frustrating though that this Strategy Pad is snowballing into a huge pre-release issue when in fact this game continues to struggle with more important issues. You don't have to look far in this demo to see how awful the tackling is and how defenders are literally rolling off of the ball carrier. I don't understand why this isn't at the top of the simulation gamer's list. Yet, a feature that is usable (while a steep learning curve) like the Strategy Pad already has talks of letters and petitions. I want the game to change where the change is an absolute identifier of a major gaming issue. Tackling is that issue and it has yet to be seriously addressed. The Strategy Pad is changing the way the buttons are mapped for pre-snap adjustments. It is change but the question for me is, "Was it essential?"

Exactly my point. The biggest issue this year is a change in something eveyones been used to being the same every year. Never has there been such an uproar over the animations, bad AI, Psychic DB's etc...

Now, a change in the comfort zone, and all hells breaking lose.

# 29 Superrandy @ 07/29/10 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	Yes. Seriously. This is the stuff class action suits are made of. We aren't forced to buy the game, but if we do BUY the game, 360 users will be forced to use the strategy pad. As soon as people start going to the doctor with pain in their left wrist just below muscle the base of their palm, it's not going to take long before 'video games' are determined to be the biggest factor. It won't be as debilitating on the PS3 where the motion doesn't go against the hand's design. Later

Not EA's problem. They're not forcing you to use the 360 default controller or to use the strategy pad. They provide the software; it's the users choice how they play that software. The hardware is what would cause the discomfort, not the software. That's like saying if I tried to play a PC game on a laptop that had a shape/contour that made my wrists hurt that I could sue the game makers. Wrong.

# 30 ODogg @ 07/29/10 10:50 AM

And why wouldn't there be Skyboxer? As I said, control is something that takes place on every, single play. The issues you speak of are legitimate issues, no question, but they are subjective (well many are, some are not) to a lot of people. The bottom line is a lot of things can be overlooked and lived with but poor design choices in relation to control cannot.

I mean you answered your own question about why there's not been as much of an uproar over the other issues, there is a change in the comfort zone, a huge one. You can't just take years of learned behavior and throw it in the trash without expecting a huge uproar.

Heck even for the turbo button removal they gave us an option to use the old method for those who wanted to utilize the old way... Did they not see this one coming from a mile away???

# 31 ryan36 @ 07/29/10 10:52 AM

Like I've said in every other thread...if you didn't have to 'activate' it, it'd be fine.

# 32 Skyboxer @ 07/29/10 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	DaveDQ - The reason the strategy pad is such a huge issue, and way ahead of some of the other issues you mention (which are legitimate issues btw) is that control is one thing that, if it's wrong, is more noticed than anything else. A player may or may not have issue with how a tackle is performed but if they press a button and it don't work, or if you change the button they are required to press, it's frustration at a base level. It's not something you sit and look at and speculate about as you do the other issues, such as graphics or tackles or sideline catches or roster sizes, it's something that is an issue that keeps you from being able to experience the game without frustration on every single play. Because on every single play you use the controller to interact with the game so any control issues will ALWAYS be a much higher priority and issue for players across the board than ANYTHING else. That's just how it is and that's why there is so much outrage over the Strategy Pad this year vs. people being frustrated about other issues, which as I said, are certainly real issues.

I'll always respect your opinion and listen to what you have to say but I just disagree with this area.
The strategy pad in the grand scheme of things shouldn't even be on the first page of things to be protesting for EXCEPT for the option to be able to go back the old way.

It's not like it is the main control of the game. It's an adjustment system.
On top of that it works. It's simply a change it how you do it. I could understand if they remove the adjustment controls all together.

Now I know some will say that they can't do a lot of hot routing which is correct. However the reason for needing a lot of hot routing (Although I don't do a lot) is the lack of a really good play design/play calling system.
Fix that and we no longer need the ability to redesign plays at the LOS.

I still think it really is a simple issue. The comfort level has been messed with and that has united the masses.
We have some really terrible animation transitions and tons other things on the field that are secondary to the strategy pad and I just don't get that.

# 33 jamaster14 @ 07/29/10 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyboxer


	Exactly my point. The biggest issue this year is a change in something eveyones been used to being the same every year. Never has there been such an uproar over the animations, bad AI, Psychic DB's etc... Now, a change in the comfort zone, and all hells breaking lose.

user interfacing, interaction, and input is the msot important aspect of any software. it shouldnt be a suprise that a controll configuration and input issue is getting talked about so much.... and much more then gameplay.

you cant notice gameplay when you havent gotten past the controls. and alot of people havent gotten past the controls.

# 34 Skyboxer @ 07/29/10 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	And why wouldn't there be Skyboxer? As I said, control is something that takes place on every, single play. The issues you speak of are legitimate issues, no question, but they are subjective (well many are, some are not) to a lot of people. The bottom line is a lot of things can be overlooked and lived with but poor design choices in relation to control cannot. Addressed the contol in above post . I mean you answered your own question about why there's not been as much of an uproar over the other issues, there is a change in the comfort zone, a huge one. You can't just take years of learned behavior and throw it in the trash without expecting a huge uproar. Agree that is shouldn't have been a total change without the option to use old way. My point is apparently Comfort > Realistic Gameplay Like I stated above as an example. Fix the play calling/Play design and the need for a lot of adjustments go by by. Seriously listen to this: You remember a game back on PC (Actually I think I had if for the Amiga) You actually called plays by "design" if you will. THINK it was Head Coach FB Example: You would type in: IR_30D_G That told the game I form Strong Right. Dive to O hole, gap blocking. Calling D plays was simular. Now obviously we cant do all that typing on a console unless eveyone had a messenger kit for the 360 BUT you get my point I hope. If we could call play in more precise ways we would eliminate the need for a lot of pre play adjustments. Heck even for the turbo button removal they gave us an option to use the old method for those who wanted to utilize the old way... Did they not see this one coming from a mile away???

LOL... They should have. And I agree as I said before. Should have been an option.

# 35 Skyboxer @ 07/29/10 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaster14


	user interfacing, interaction, and input is the msot important aspect of any software. it shouldnt be a suprise that a controll configuration and input issue is getting talked about so much.... and much more then gameplay. you cant notice gameplay when you havent gotten past the controls. and alot of people havent gotten past the controls.

Again the control is still there. Just a different way of getting the SAME thing. Yet gameplay and AI design are still whack.
They didn't get rid of adjustments just how you do them.
Again I agree there should have been an option to use old method.

# 36 DaveDQ @ 07/29/10 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	And why wouldn't there be Skyboxer? As I said, control is something that takes place on every, single play. The issues you speak of are legitimate issues, no question, but they are subjective (well many are, some are not) to a lot of people. The bottom line is a lot of things can be overlooked and lived with but poor design choices in relation to control cannot. I mean you answered your own question about why there's not been as much of an uproar over the other issues, there is a change in the comfort zone, a huge one. You can't just take years of learned behavior and throw it in the trash without expecting a huge uproar. Heck even for the turbo button removal they gave us an option to use the old method for those who wanted to utilize the old way... Did they not see this one coming from a mile away???

I think your poll shows that the Strategy Pad is subjective too. People are ok with it. Some aren't. I still feel nothing has stuck like this issue. My thing is tackling and momentum. I thought last year showed an awareness of the game's issues. It gave me something to look forward to this year. But, the demo cancels out my hopes. To me this should be a huge let down to those who appreciated the talk of locomotion and what Pro-Tak was last year. Instead, a control scheme takes precedence.

# 37 Skyboxer @ 07/29/10 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	Yes. Seriously. This is the stuff class action suits are made of. We aren't forced to buy the game, but if we do BUY the game, 360 users will be forced to use the strategy pad. As soon as people start going to the doctor with pain in their left wrist just below muscle the base of their palm, it's not going to take long before 'video games' are determined to be the biggest factor. It won't be as debilitating on the PS3 where the motion doesn't go against the hand's design. Later

Can I sue Atlus for headaches causes by Demon's Soul's? I've banged my head a few times due to that (Great) game...so I should be able to sue them correct?

# 38 roadman @ 07/29/10 11:07 AM

What is the message we are trying to send to the EA team? We can't handle change and consult us before you make any design decisions out of our comfort zone? The results are sales will drop and I won't purchase another game of Madden.

Or, get used to the new change and hope EA keeps evolving bringing on changes.

The first choice EA will announce that they listened to the masses and will be patching the old system into the game by December.(who knows how long it will take to patch it back into the game)

I agree with Skyboxer. There are more important issues in the game vs the SP. Not everyone dislikes the SP. There is probably telling evidence that there is more people that dislike it.

# 39 ODogg @ 07/29/10 11:12 AM

The message is don't change what does not need fixed just for the sake of change.

# 40 jamaster14 @ 07/29/10 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyboxer


	Again the control is still there. Just a different way of getting the SAME thing. Yet gameplay and AI design are still whack. They didn't get rid of adjustments just how you do them. Again I agree there should have been an option to use old method.

you are talking about functionality, not control. YES, the functionality is till there. however the interface, input, and control of that functionality has become more cumbersome(to some/many). saying its "a different way to do the SAME thing" is really an understatement. for instance, i could take the 1 lane backroad to get to work in the morning isntead of the 4 lane highway. that would be a different way to do the SAME thing(drive to work) but id have to sit through a ton of traffic lights, more traffic, and get there 10-15 minutes later.

Regardless of the software, be it video games or word processing, the user is not going to be able to look past the interface if it is something they are not happy with, not comfortable with, or they find less efficient then a previous manner. no one who is unhappy with the controls is going to care about tackling or coverage or blocking, because they will never get passed their frustration with interaction.

the functionality still being there is a bit irrelevant if (some/many) people arent able to access it as efficently as they could in the past. there is a reason so much time and resource is put into UI and GUI at software companies. its the reason why microsoft purposely puts in redundacy in the many different ways you can access things in their software(i.e. you can print a document about 7 or 8 different ways)

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Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)