NBA 2K17 News Post

Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

01:26 PM - April 3, 2017 by RaychelSnr

Editor Chris Sanner recently got a chance to go out to 2K and chat with several members of the NBA 2K team about what it was like to go from a member of the OS and Sports Gaming Community to working in gaming. In part one we looked at what each of the guy's experience was going from community member to game creator. Today, in part two, we are looking at misconceptions about what game creation is like along with a discussion on the importance of experience in getting hired in games.

Coming up in future videos we have more conversations on what its like to work in gaming, how to get noticed by game development companies, and how you can help improve games even if you aren't an employee.

As part of this series, we are also wanting to encourage anyone interested in working in gaming to look into it. The results of what former OS'ers have been able to do at 2K Sports in particular speaks for itself.

If you are interested in seeing if you have what it takes, we are encouraging all members of the community to contact Chad Riggleman, a recruiter at 2K Sports, about how you may fit in with their future. E-mail Chad at [email protected].

Game: NBA 2K17Reader Score: 7/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PC / PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 14 - View All

Member Comments

# 1 DC @ 04/03/17 04:13 PM

Folks need to see this. Since yall SWEAR everything is so simple

LOL @ DACZAR hitting Mo with the, "IsoAchieved."

# 2 Crunky @ 04/03/17 06:22 PM

Loving these videos very insightful stuff.

# 3 iFnotWhyNoT @ 04/03/17 08:05 PM

We need more of this, great job OS.

# 4 Smirkin Dirk @ 04/03/17 08:13 PM

Awesome video series so far.

Im glad leftos pointed out how hard it is to fix seemingly simple things. Czar and others have been saying it for a while.

# 5 Retropyro @ 04/03/17 09:16 PM

Is it really difficult to reduce the games ridiculous loading times that belong more in the days of the Commodore 64 than in 2017?

# 6 ChaseB @ 04/03/17 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retropyro


	Is it really difficult to reduce the games ridiculous loading times that belong more in the days of the Commodore 64 than in 2017?

Yes, it can be very hard to do that, especially because of how things load in, when they load in, what needs to load in, etc. You can't say let's shorten loading times from 1 minute to 15 seconds (oh and let's make it more interactive, too!) without a lot of engineering work in many cases. And are you going to pull engineers off actual things that will matter more to the final game, or will you say "spend 2 months shortening loading times by fixing the back end" or whatever instead of helping out with Feature X.

# 7 life4eva @ 04/04/17 01:10 AM

Fix the poor ONLINE gameplay, Such a disgrace in 2017 they still have not figured how to deliver a smooth experience for Online Gamers................

# 8 Retropyro @ 04/04/17 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseB


	Yes, it can be very hard to do that, especially because of how things load in, when they load in, what needs to load in, etc. You can't say let's shorten loading times from 1 minute to 15 seconds (oh and let's make it more interactive, too!) without a lot of engineering work in many cases. And are you going to pull engineers off actual things that will matter more to the final game, or will you say "spend 2 months shortening loading times by fixing the back end" or whatever instead of helping out with Feature X.

Are you serious? If the game took 1 minute to load, I'd be very happy. I can't start this game without a minimum 10 minute wait just to get to the main menu. That is beyond ridiculous. I'm not alone, just go on the 2K Twitter support. Never mind that 2K support is an absolute joke, completely useless.

How can you seriously say that something like this is OK? NBA 2K is the ONLY game with this problem. The post by BegBy below is spot on.

And yes, I would pull engineers off others things, because if my consumers can't even get into the game in a reasonable time (again, we're not talking 1 minute here but 10, minimum) what use is there in fixing anything else. You don't construct a building with a flimsy foundation and put your best people to work on making the apartments look pretty.

# 9 rhein77 @ 04/04/17 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	All these videos do is showcase that hiring people without experience is unsurprisingly, a bad idea. Hiring people with little to no experience and as a result producing less than standard (a metric set by them) product shouldn't be shocking to anyone. What's shocking is consumer acceptance of their "We're trying, but it's hard" statement. Every industry is filled with new talent/apprentices/greenhorns, etc, but they are also surrounded by experience as to not detract from primary goals. NBA 2K17 is not a good NBA basketball simulation video game. Fundamentally it is flawed and as long as legacy issues continue to be present in new iterations it will continue to be a bad representation of simulation basketball. Their focus seems to be on game modes that make money which also detracts from simulation basketball. Everyone knows game development is difficult. So are thousands of other jobs. Typically people won't allow other professionals to perform as poorly as the 2K team have in recent years without some form of accountability. Consumer backlash is dreaded by companies for a reason. When you make a product that isn't quite at the standards people expect and do little about it, all the while working on other aspects of product development that is entirely and expressly focused on making money via an element of the aforementioned less than standard product, consumers should be upset. Most companies wouldn't live through years of that because consumers would avoid buying their crap. Why should game devs get special treatment? Who cares that you've chatted with them on the forums? People need to look at this situation objectively. Keep the less experienced staff on. Use their passion and basketball knowledge as it's not something to balk at. However, surround them with more people who can help translate their intangibles into actual code that makes the game good again. Or be transparent with the community and admit that 2K's focus has been and will be online modes that generate cash as opposed to NBA simulation basketball.

Couldn't of said it any better myself. Great post!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

# 10 noot @ 04/04/17 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	A wait time of anything over 3-4 minutes is pushing unacceptable. It's 2017. If they were a smaller studio without the financial resources to employ another 2-3 people for server maintenance or whatever aspect that's failing, I'd understand, but money is not an issue for them. Their actions and lack thereof speak volumes. How that isn't blatantly obvious and downright insulting to more people is beyond me, because I'd bet my last dollar that if it were your mechanic, doctor, cashier at the convenience store, cell phone, cake mix or whatever else you can think of (under)performing like this, whilst telling you it's fine they are just "trying to fix it, but it's hard" each and everyone of us would be irate and stop rewarding them via our money.

The difference is that if you don't like the service in those industries you can take your money elsewhere. But since 2k hasn't had any real competition in a while, they can get away with this kind of stuff because where else are you going to take your money? The sad truth is that these problems will likely remain unless Live or some other game really steps it up.

# 11 RainZ @ 04/04/17 05:03 PM

Chase must have been talking about the "standard" load times when its not bugging out of like 1 min or 30 seconds. I doubt he meant the glitched load times of 10-15 minutes are acceptable....

Also, no way that is going to be allowed to happen next year lol. They would have seen the backlash no doubt and some a$$ would have been kicked about it...

# 12 basehead617 @ 04/04/17 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	Keep the less experienced staff on. Use their passion and basketball knowledge as it's not something to balk at. However, surround them with more people who can help translate their intangibles into actual code that makes the game good again.

You should probably know more about the topic before writing a rant.

The NBA 2K team is one of the most experienced in the industry, with many top engineers and producers having worked at the studio for 20+ years.

This video just happens to be talking about some of the newer hires.

# 13 BA2929 @ 04/04/17 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noot


	The difference is that if you don't like the service in those industries you can take your money elsewhere. But since 2k hasn't had any real competition in a while, they can get away with this kind of stuff because where else are you going to take your money? The sad truth is that these problems will likely remain unless Live or some other game really steps it up.

You could take your money and leave it in your wallet come Sept/Oct if you're that dissatisfied with this game and the direction it's heading. I mean, you don't HAVE to buy it.

I fully expect the 2k board of OS to be 100% dead come the release of 2k18 with no comments because 99% of everyone on it this year just complains about how bad 2k17 is. No way I'd buy 2k18 if I was as mad as most of you are.

Anyway, I enjoyed this video and would love to see the same sort of thing happen with the MLB The Show crew. Love seeing some behind the scenes stuff like this.

# 14 Smirkin Dirk @ 04/04/17 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	All these videos do is showcase that hiring people without experience is unsurprisingly, a bad idea. Hiring people with little to no experience and as a result producing less than standard (a metric set by them) product shouldn't be shocking to anyone.

You have no idea how experienced the programmers are. As was pointed out, there are a lot of people behind the scenes who we don't know about. And by now the people are in the video are experienced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	NBA 2K17 is not a good NBA basketball simulation video game. Fundamentally it is flawed and as long as legacy issues continue to be present in new iterations it will continue to be a bad representation of simulation basketball.

That's a personal opinion. Many others can see massive advances in gameplay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	Their focus seems to be on game modes that make money which also detracts from simulation basketball.

No; you're wrong.

No series has developed their franchise mode as much as 2K has. Every game is finding ways to monetise; it's video games now. But don't pretend there is a huge amount of 2K that can be enjoyed without monetisation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	Everyone knows game development is difficult. So are thousands of other jobs. Typically people won't allow other professionals to perform as poorly as the 2K team have in recent years without some form of accountability.

If you've read this forum any time between 1 and 6 months after release of every 2K game in the last decade, you will know people can express their opinions on the game. As they can on FB and twitter.

What accountability do you suggest?

# 15 Smirkin Dirk @ 04/04/17 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	I mean for a while there you were complaining about how long it took for plays to develop due to the physicality (fouls for those of us who aren't delusional and actually know basketball and understand physics) and then you just switched your stance on the subject. I find that ridiculous, but I actually like real basketball and real physics.

No I havent. I said large parts of the physics engine sucked at release and I havent changed in that opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	2K is garbage if you're looking for an NBA simulation that is largely based around real world physics in my opinion. The thing is I base my opinion on facts. Everyone is entitled to like or dislike things, but don't try to tell me that 2K is realistic or that they don't focus on monetization as opposed to offline realistic gameplay.

'Garbage' isn't really an opinion. It's an emotional exaggeration which will be ignored.

# 16 rhein77 @ 04/05/17 08:49 AM

I agree with Begby's sentiment. He brings up valid points on the overall effectiveness of bringing new talent to work on a game and rightfully questions if they are given the proper resources.

I am questioning the ROI on investments in gameplay. They have actually regressed in some areas.

Last year albeit a short production cycle produced a game that fell short in people's eyes.

I hope that we can see more tangible results reflected in the overall product for future releases.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

# 17 Impetuous65 @ 04/05/17 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BegBy


	All these videos do is showcase that hiring people without experience is unsurprisingly, a bad idea. Hiring people with little to no experience and as a result producing less than standard (a metric set by them) product shouldn't be shocking to anyone. What's shocking is consumer acceptance of their "We're trying, but it's hard" statement. Every industry is filled with new talent/apprentices/greenhorns, etc, but they are also surrounded by experience as to not detract from primary goals. NBA 2K17 is not a good NBA basketball simulation video game. Fundamentally it is flawed and as long as legacy issues continue to be present in new iterations it will continue to be a bad representation of simulation basketball. Their focus seems to be on game modes that make money which also detracts from simulation basketball. Everyone knows game development is difficult. So are thousands of other jobs. Typically people won't allow other professionals to perform as poorly as the 2K team have in recent years without some form of accountability. Consumer backlash is dreaded by companies for a reason. When you make a product that isn't quite at the standards people expect and do little about it, all the while working on other aspects of product development that is entirely and expressly focused on making money via an element of the aforementioned less than standard product, consumers should be upset. Most companies wouldn't live through years of that because consumers would avoid buying their crap. Why should game devs get special treatment? Who cares that you've chatted with them on the forums? People need to look at this situation objectively. Keep the less experienced staff on. Use their passion and basketball knowledge as it's not something to balk at. However, surround them with more people who can help translate their intangibles into actual code that makes the game good again. Or be transparent with the community and admit that 2K's focus has been and will be online modes that generate cash as opposed to NBA simulation basketball.

Preach Brother, all this hand holding is nauseating.

# 18 Thunderhorse @ 04/05/17 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhein77


	I agree with Begby's sentiment. He brings up valid points on the overall effectiveness of bringing new talent to work on a game and rightfully questions if they are given the proper resources. I am questioning the ROI on investments in gameplay. They have actually regressed in some areas. Last year albeit a short production cycle produced a game that fell short in people's eyes. I hope that we can see more tangible results reflected in the overall product for future releases. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These are my sentiments as well.

Look, the game just isn't as good this year compared to last year. Every year the title has it's own problems, but this year has been a difficult one.

The game is poorly balanced. Adding archetypes and limiting certain player's abilities only illustrated the game's issues with balance, more.

We live in a capitalist society and the measure of success for our sport games (now) is not what it can do on the court or field, but how much revenue can it produce throughout the entire year. 2K and EA have become so similar in this regard; I think it's unfortunate. EA hasn't had a reason in close to 10 years to aggressively innovate within Madden's gameplay. There is one football game on the market, and if you want to play a football video game you have to play Madden, there just is no other option. It doesn't take a genius or CEO to comprehend that the incentive that will arise from that environment will not be to improve gameplay but to creatively find new ways to produce a better bottom line by creating new forms of revenue.

The truth is, 2K is going down the same path, and the only hope any of us have is EA putting out another "Live". Even if EA puts out a supbar product, 2K still has to hold themselves accountable for their gameplay if they want to be considered the only "legitimate" game on the market. I played 16 throughout the entire year; I have not found 17 to be nearly as enjoyable and if anything the experience has been frustrating. This year's imbalance, especially in relation with the implementation of archetypes in MyCareer, has left a "sour" feeling in my mouth. I find myself gravitating towards other titles that provide a more rewarding experience.

Even though I have my gripes with EA and Video Game Football, if Madden had a teamplay aspect that was comparable with 2K's Pro-Am/Park, I probably would stop playing 2K. I did not previously feel this way because I've always felt 2K was always focused on simluation and you could see that within the product. Now I'm not so sure, and it would be a hell of a lot cheaper to play OTP on Madden again than spend comical amounts of time building up a MyPlayer that has the capacity to be both useless and a God (depending on whatever patch/Tuning update 2K has put out that day).

# 19 keshunleon @ 04/05/17 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA2929


	You could take your money and leave it in your wallet come Sept/Oct if you're that dissatisfied with this game and the direction it's heading. I mean, you don't HAVE to buy it. I fully expect the 2k board of OS to be 100% dead come the release of 2k18 with no comments because 99% of everyone on it this year just complains about how bad 2k17 is. No way I'd buy 2k18 if I was as mad as most of you are. Anyway, I enjoyed this video and would love to see the same sort of thing happen with the MLB The Show crew. Love seeing some behind the scenes stuff like this.

So you're saying if the issues you're having but you didn't know this would happen for them not only get the next one. That still doesn't help them now. If there are 1200 people having the same load time issue and they don't buy the 2k17, 2K stock and revenue would drop significantly.

# 20 nova91 @ 04/05/17 12:04 PM

Oh please...2K17 is a bad game, period. Y'all can sugarcoat it, soft sell and white knight it all you want. 2K17 DID NOT live up the quality that 2K has established and quite frankly it has been diminishing for a while now. Just because we don't work in gaming doesn't mean we can't recognize when a game is bad; most of us have been playing video games for decades and most of us are sports games enthusiasts, but more importantly we're NBA basketball fans and this game, at times, does not even come close to resembling an NBA game at all when it comes down to oncourt gameplay. From a gamer aspect, loading times that take seemingly forever, game modes/features not working as advertised, poor servers etc are extremely frustrating. We know it's not easy and most of us aren't saying it is, but come on, this is getting ridiculous.

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