Werewolf XXXIII: To Crown a King 2 (Game Over)

[Fouts]

Correcting my voting syntax. Bullet is casting a vote right now for a player that I trust in this game.

UNVOTE JAIL BLADE6119
VOTE JAIL BULLETSPONGE


How strange. ;)

[Mr. Wednesday]

You're leaving off hoops's vote for bulletsponge.

[Blade6119]

Here is what I show for the vote count, as of Post #245:

Blade 3 -- Anxiety (139), MrW (179), WVU (193)
Hoops 2 -- Rum (135), Blade (176)
LSG 1 -- Cronin (188)
Cronin 1 -- Bullet (209)
Bullet 1 -- Hoops (240)
Ntdeacon 1 -- DC (238)

I did not know i was down 4-2 until you moved your vote. Well i guess i should thank you? lol

Im leaning towards one of the idles(qwik, king, lonestar). I know bek is working until 9 tonight(pacific), so since he didnt post this morning he wont be posting at all today id imagine. He will be on tonight, but we were both up late last night playing NCAA football so id imagine he slept right up until he had to leave. I had classes, so i couldnt sleep in...anyone else notice how much more you hate school when you are trying to learn out of one bloodshot eye?

Anyways, im leaning towards one of the no-shows, but am still considering what i need to do to surive

[Chief Rum]

I'll just say that there are probably people in my faction who have posted, but it's impossible for me to say for sure about anybody. There are a couple of reasons why that's possible - either the "code" was too common, and has been used by more people than it's likely are in my faction, or else the "code" was too confusing, and has been mangled by people, or else there was no "code" and our fearless leader gave some other guidance which I am unable to make (public) use of.

So this happened to your faction on Day 1 in the other game? The code wasn't well put together, and as a result a wolf hid in your faction? Or you killed someone in your faction, thinking he was bad (and not knowing he was in your faction)?

[Barkeep49]

You're leaving off hoops's vote for bulletsponge.
Fixed now, thanks.

Going away for a bit, but I'll be around a bunch before lynch.

[st.cronin]

So this happened to your faction on Day 1 in the other game? The code wasn't well put together, and as a result a wolf hid in your faction? Or you killed someone in your faction, thinking he was bad (and not knowing he was in your faction)?

Well, I don't remember anything bad happening, but we did waste a day in confuzzlement.

[Blade6119]

So this happened to your faction on Day 1 in the other game? The code wasn't well put together, and as a result a wolf hid in your faction? Or you killed someone in your faction, thinking he was bad (and not knowing he was in your faction)?

The version he is referring to is the one run on this board at this link:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=44878

I skimmed it, and noticed his team won, but what i also noticed is there was a lot of confusion with the codes. Some nobles made them too tricky and the member of their factions misunderstood them. Therefore certain codes didnt work as expected. I think his faction's was one of those codes. Im not sure though, id prefer if he would clarify

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, exactly right. That is the trend of which I have the most confidence is a "noble tell". There are three other ones out there - not including the ellipsis - that I have less confidence than "strange".

Blade, I would hope that moving my vote, while putting myself at greater risk, would mean something to you and the other people considering voting for me.

[Blade6119]

Fouts, exactly right. That is the trend of which I have the most confidence is a "noble tell". There are three other ones out there - not including the ellipsis - that I have less confidence than "strange".

Blade, I would hope that moving my vote, while putting myself at greater risk, would mean something to you and the other people considering voting for me.
I have stated from the get go, back when you were calling me a bad guy, that i thought you were good. The problem lies in i am still in the lead, and i must make sure i am on the best canidate to remove myself from the fast track to jail. So far, no one has claimed that title from you

[Blade6119]

Dola, but ill put myself at further risk just as you claim to have done(despite me still being in the lead)

UNVOTE JAIL HOOPSGUY

[hoopsguy]

Just got to the point where Dubb and I were both night-killed on Night 1 of the other "Crown a King" game. We were both doing the math with the scores during the Night phase - didn't count on them getting us both at the same time. Bah.

If I recall correctly, Barkeep has updated the rules to make it more challenging to "do the math" in 1-2 nights to win the game.

[Blade6119]

Just got to the point where Dubb and I were both night-killed on Night 1 of the other "Crown a King" game. We were both doing the math with the scores during the Night phase - didn't count on them getting us both at the same time. Bah.

If I recall correctly, Barkeep has updated the rules to make it more challenging to "do the math" in 1-2 nights to win the game.

Yes, he improved them before the BGG running of this game, and has done so again for this version. I like the rules changes, as i think each game's rule set has been an improvement over the last.

[bulletsponge]

has quickshot or bek posted yet?

[Blade6119]

has quickshot or bek posted yet?
No, and i have already explained bek's sitaution. I believe 5-6 people have still not posted, though qwikshot was around today. There are around 8-9 non-voters, but a few of those have been around(brian, fouts).

No hoops, those dashes arent more clues im trying to crack

[bulletsponge]

brian and fouts have posted several times

[hoopsguy]

Also, another point on the Bulletsponge vote - most of the people who have posted have fit somehow into one of my "noble tell" theories. Bullet, up to this point, has not been classified except for voting against someone that I list in my strongest "tell" group.

The only mitigating factor there is that Cronin was fairly late to the party posting and others (see Fouts) had picked up on the "strange" tell as well so Cronin could be making a move there, coupled with a throwaway vote on Lonestargirl. But I find this less likely than Bullet as an assassin.

[hoopsguy]

The only people who have not posted, up to this point, are Bek and Lonestargirl. Qwikshot had a "checking in" post but nothing else.

[Blade6119]

The only people who have not posted, up to this point, are Bek and Lonestargirl. Qwikshot had a "checking in" post but nothing else.

Kingfc? I must have missed his post

[Blade6119]

brian and fouts have posted several times

Yes, i said they have. I said they have not voted

[st.cronin]

unvote Jail LonestarGirl
vote Jail Bulletsponge

I'm going along with hoops ... for now! Strange, isn't it.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, you are correct on King. Was going from memory as I was packing up for the day. Here is a list of players and their first post of Day #1.

1. ntndeacon - #115
2. Anxiety - #88
3. Qwikshot - #226
4. Lonestargirl -
5. Bulletsponge - #180
6. Bek -
7. Hoopsguy - #85
8. Greyroofoo - #185
9. St. Cronin - #188
10. RealDeal - #95
11. Blade6119 - #98
12. Fouts - #84
13. Kingfc22 -
14. Lathum - #86
15. Chief Run - #135
16. Dodgerchick - #93
17. WVUFan - #145
18. Mr. Wednesday - #89

[Blade6119]

VOTE JAIL BULLETSPONGE

[Fouts]

Pick a side, pick a side. NO FLOATERS!!

[hoopsguy]

][/B] ... for now! Strange, isn't it.

This is the most suspect post of all time :eek:;)

[Fouts]

Ok, class is cancelled tonight, so I am all yours. Be gentle.

[bulletsponge]

hey! i hope jail isnt like the kind i see on tv.


unless all the guards are women http://www.smileyhut.com/naughty/naughty.gif

[Chief Rum]

I don't get the bulletsponge vote. So I am sticking with hoops, and since I am leaving soon, that is probably where it will end up.

[Qwikshot]

I did post.

[Blade6119]

I did post.

LOL, yes you did...that has been covered

[Qwikshot]

Checking in

LOL, yes you did...that has been covered

My bad. Lots to get lost in this. You read about votes, and then you read about dropping signals, then you read about "quotes", then you read about strange...it's enough to make my head explode.

Monday was a bear for me; today I went home early to recover from stress. So I was quite drowsy, and now I'm just waking up.

I may be a slow player in this game for a bit.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Wait, so where's the vote now? Is it a tie between Blade and bulletsponge?

Just a quick observation -- I'm suspicious of anyone who is openly discussing the "tells" right now. It does the nobles no good to "out" those at this stage.

[LoneStarGirl]

I am checking in. I am very busy at work and in the middle of a shift change. This is my last week to work this job so I should be able to devote more time soon.

<b>VOTE JAIL ST. CRONIN</B>

It is a payback vote.

[Lathum]

OK, I just read the thread and am going in a different direction. He has been all over the place and for me that is a little strange on day one, it seems he may be trying to force people to tip their hand.

VOTE JAIL MRWEDNESDAY

[RealDeal]

I got no idea. I don't see any codes anywhere.

vote Latham

Nothing personal, and will probably change once I see who the leaders turn out to be.

[Barkeep49]

Chief Rum Hoopsguy
Anxiety Blade
Mr. Wednesday Blade

WVUFan Blade
Bulletsponge Cronin
Dodgerchick Ntndeacon
Hoopsguy Bulletsponge
st.cronin bulletsponge
Blade6119 bulletsponge
Lonestargirl cronin

Bulletsponge 3 -- Hoopsguy, cronin, Blade
Blade 3 -- Anxiety Wednesday, WVU
Hoopsguy 1 -- Chief Rum
Cronin 2 -- Bulletsponge, Lonestar
NTN 1 -- Dodgerchick

[RealDeal]

sorry incorrect format before:

vote jail Latham

[hoopsguy]

OK, home now and did a quick review of the more recent posts. Update vote count as of Post #286:

Blade 3 -- Anxiety (139), MrW (179), WVU (193)
Bullet 3 -- Hoops (240), Cronin (270), Blade (272)
Cronin 2 -- Bullet (209), LSG (282)
Hoops 1 -- Rum (135)
LSG 1 -- Cronin (188)
Ntdeacon 1 -- DC (238)
MrW 1 -- Lathum (283)
Lathum 1 -- RealDeal (286)

[st.cronin]

I'll move my vote at deadline to prevent a tie.

[ntndeacon]

Vote Jail Bullet
I think it is likely that whoever we vote to jail today will be a noble. But at least we won't have killed our choice.

[BrianD]

Chief Rum is hanging onto the Hoops vote though I think Hoops is ok. I'm going to...

Vote Jail Chief Rum

[Fouts]

Well, I have an idea of who the good guys are, but no idea on which are the bad guys. I'm going to take a shot in the dark here at some points.

vote jail qwikshot

[hoopsguy]

Votes updated, including non-votes, as of Post #289:

Bullet 4 -- Hoops (240), Cronin (270), Blade (272), NTN (289)
Blade 3 -- Anxiety (139), MrW (179), WVU (193)
Cronin 2 -- Bullet (209), LSG (282)
Hoops 1 -- Rum (135)
Ntdeacon 1 -- DC (238)
MrW 1 -- Lathum (283)
Lathum 1 -- RealDeal (286)

Not voted - Qwikshot, Bek, Grey, Fouts, King, BrianD

[Greyroofoo]

vote jail fouts

more of a vengeance vote than anything as the guy never trusts me.

[Chief Rum]

Chief Rum is hanging onto the Hoops vote though I think Hoops is ok. I'm going to...

Vote Jail Chief Rum

Brian, give me a compelling reason to switch. At the time I made my vote, there was a reason, because hoops' actions were odd. In reality, they are still odd, but I have admitted I don't think he is an assassin. But I have seen no support I accept as legitimate for anyone else either. So why switch? Hoops doesn't seem to be in any danger regardless.

At least I voted first and when it could have meant hoops was going to jail (and for a much of the afternoon, he was the leading votegetter). You voting now for someone without a vote, when it is extremely unlikely to make a difference and when you have been around all day, too, is very suspicious.

[BrianD]

Brian, give me a compelling reason to switch. At the time I made my vote, there was a reason, because hoops' actions were odd. In reality, they are still odd, but I have admitted I don't think he is an assassin. But I have seen no support I accept as legitimate for anyone else either. So why switch? Hoops doesn't seem to be in any danger regardless.

At least I voted first and when it could have meant hoops was going to jail (and for a much of the afternoon, he was the leading votegetter). You voting now for someone without a vote, when it is extremely unlikely to make a difference and when you have been around all day, too, is very suspicious.

Honestly, I don't have a compelling reason. You were one of a number of people I hadn't put on a faction yet, and you were one of a number of people voting for someone I had put on a faction. It isn't a good reason, but I didn't get the feeling that Bullet or Blade were assassins. I'm sort of hoping this random vote shows something meaningful with the points after the first execution.

[hoopsguy]

So, do people think it is to our advantage to know how many factions are out there? If so, I've got a thought on how to start moving in that direction now rather than waiting until after the first execution to maybe learn that info ...

[Chief Rum]

I'm sort of hoping this random vote shows something meaningful with the points after the first execution.

I assure you it won't. Or if it does, you won't like what it tells you (assuming you're a noble).

[hoopsguy]

Brian, just out of curiosity would you tell me one person you think is also in my faction? Because I'm working with the idea that our code is pretty good and would like to know if I'm off-base with this notion.

There is a chance I won't comment on it either way, but I'm still curious :)

[BrianD]

So, do people think it is to our advantage to know how many factions are out there? If so, I've got a thought on how to start moving in that direction now rather than waiting until after the first execution to maybe learn that info ...

It probably wouldn't hurt us to know. Do you have an idea of how to figure it out without guessing at a probably number of total "villagers"?

[BrianD]

Brian, just out of curiosity would you tell me one person you think is also in my faction? Because I'm working with the idea that our code is pretty good and would like to know if I'm off-base with this notion.

There is a chance I won't comment on it either way, but I'm still curious :)

I don't think it is to our advantage to start outing faction members at this point, and I still don't have high confidence on some of the factions.

[Chief Rum]

You know, with this many factions, it wouldn't surprise me if st. cronin's fear comes true again, and some nobles mistake or simply miss their leader's message intent or message altogether, thus causing havoc in that faction's dealings.

Even if everyone gets it right, it has to be downright confusing with so many factions. Does anyone who played in the last TACK have any tips for how to handle things in this one?

[hoopsguy]

I don't think it is to our advantage to start outing faction members at this point, and I still don't have high confidence on some of the factions.

Fair enough - just curious who people think I might be aligned with as I have a fairly large body of work today to review.

[Qwikshot]

vote jail bullet

[Mr. Wednesday]

It probably wouldn't hurt us to know. Do you have an idea of how to figure it out without guessing at a probably number of total "villagers"?
With 19 total villagers...
2 factions of 7 each would give 14 villagers and 5 assassins
2 factions of 8 each would give 16 villagers and 3 assassins
(I think the factions are unrealistically large, plus the rules about "tolerated" factions suggest that there are more than two.)

3 factions of 5 each would give 15 villagers and 4 assassins
(I think this is unlikely, because it would most likely make toleration go in circles, with A tolerates B and not C, B tolerates C and not A, etc.)

4 factions of 4 each would give 16 villagers and 3 assassins
(I think this is the most likely, with two factions semi-allied.)

[hoopsguy]

Chief, the biggest piece of advice I can give is that we need to get to the math portion of the game as quickly as possible. With that in mind, our default behavior for jailed people should be to execute. Obviously if there is compelling evidence to free someone we should do that, but by taking a "default execute" stance we accomplish a couple of things:

1.) Put the assassins on notice that if one of their members is locked up then they have one night to free him
2.) We start getting statistical information in the game - a huge plus if we are making headway on identifying the memberships

I would strongly encourage you to read the last game - Dubb and I were whacked on Night 1 because the assassins realized how damaging the statistical analysis of the votes could be to their cause. I realize that Barkeep has changed the game since then, but until I see otherwise I will continue to hold the posted numbers as the highest value information in the game.

Sorry if this sounds unduly ruthless.

[hoopsguy]

MrW, you bring up a good point on the tolerated factions - I have not seen any information at all that lets me know what factions are tolerated by our merry band of nobles.

Blade, was "tolerance" a mechanic in the BGG version of the game? If so, how did it play out?

[Mr. Wednesday]

The math will play a lot differently this time around, I should think, with the assassins now accumulating their own point total. We won't have the "missing" points to go on that were in the last game.

[hoopsguy]

One way to hint at the number of factions is for people to suggest how many people they think are in their own factions. Collectively, we may be able to drill down with this information towards an average value and then work from there to get a more true understanding of the factions/assassin ratings.

The trouble is that I am not sure we will have equal numbers within each faction. It makes the most sense to do this, but 19 is an awkward number ...

[BrianD]

With 19 total villagers...
2 factions of 7 each would give 14 villagers and 5 assassins
2 factions of 8 each would give 16 villagers and 3 assassins
(I think the factions are unrealistically large, plus the rules about "tolerated" factions suggest that there are more than two.)

3 factions of 5 each would give 15 villagers and 4 assassins
(I think this is unlikely, because it would most likely make toleration go in circles, with A tolerates B and not C, B tolerates C and not A, etc.)

4 factions of 4 each would give 16 villagers and 3 assassins
(I think this is the most likely, with two factions semi-allied.)

I was actually thinking 4 factions of 4, or 3 factions of 5...mainly for the reasons you listed above.

[hoopsguy]

Wednesday, I'm sure it will be different with the assassins in their own faction. But if they are driving towards a negative value, then we will still be able to draw some conclusions about the team with the fewest points. And even better conclusions if we are able to put together reasonable assumptions about the other faction memberships - which starts with having a feel for how many factions are out there.

[st.cronin]

So, do people think it is to our advantage to know how many factions are out there? If so, I've got a thought on how to start moving in that direction now rather than waiting until after the first execution to maybe learn that info ...

Why would that be to our advantage? Wouldn't it be more advantageous to the assasins?

[Blade6119]

MrW, you bring up a good point on the tolerated factions - I have not seen any information at all that lets me know what factions are tolerated by our merry band of nobles.

Blade, was "tolerance" a mechanic in the BGG version of the game? If so, how did it play out?

Here is the link to the game...path could say much better then I as he played in it, but since he is not playing let me give it my best shot:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/846896#846896

Here was the final role list for that game:
Sly Assassin Beowulf
Assassin Shugyosha
Efficient Assassin Oilslider
A Faction Leader Janiera
A Belash
A Fast Talking Noble/Vengeful Assassin Royalflush
A Warrior Noble Runningquick
A Rukasu
B Faction Leader (original) Melsana
B Cocky Noble/Faction Leader Elbear
B Sneaky Noble/Fast Talking Noble Ithicks
B BagpipeDan
B Seamusk
C Faction Leader (black mailed) Melissa
C Xandryyte
C Fast Talking Noble/Rich Noble/Clever Assassin Path12
C Talgian
C Wise Noble/Lucky Noble Arkibet


I took the tolerated factions to mean we have a couple factions(read 3-6), but one of the factions was the assasin faction. I just assumed the fact they earn points means they are their own faction, as it would be unfair for them to be within our own factions and recieve our messages. Therefore, i took tolerated to simply mean one of the human factions.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, my thought is that we need to understand the structure of the game more than they do. They know their own membership with 100% certainty and we do not. All they are worried about is damaging the faction that is closest to victory - does that fundamentally change if there are 5 factions instead of 3?

But I posed the question because I wanted other people's thoughts on the issue. How do you think it would be more advantageous to the assassins?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Why would that be to our advantage? Wouldn't it be more advantageous to the assasins?
I'm up in the air about information on faction membership; it gives the assassins a target list, but also significantly improves our voting odds, provided we're accurate.

As far as quantity of factions vs. assassins, I see no disadvantage whatsoever to the nobles in having that out there.

Barkeep has stated clearly that it is possible for some nobles to lose without the assassins winning, which I take to be a strong indication that that "non-tolerated" does not refer exclusively to the assassins.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, that means that when a particular faction approaches victory, nobles in opposed factions may wind up having to walk the fine line between stopping them and handing the game to the assassins.

[st.cronin]

Well, at any rate, I don't have any idea how many people are in my faction, and while several people have come CLOSE to making me think they are in my faction, there is only one that I would be confident enough about to actively defend. I don't have any idea how MANY factions there are. 3 or 4 would be my best guess.

[st.cronin]

Votes updated, including non-votes, as of Post #289:

Bullet 4 -- Hoops (240), Cronin (270), Blade (272), NTN (289)
Blade 3 -- Anxiety (139), MrW (179), WVU (193)
Cronin 2 -- Bullet (209), LSG (282)
Hoops 1 -- Rum (135)
Ntdeacon 1 -- DC (238)
MrW 1 -- Lathum (283)
Lathum 1 -- RealDeal (286)

Not voted - Qwikshot, Bek, Grey, Fouts, King, BrianD

I have Qwik voting for Bullet, Fouts voting for Qwik, and Grey voting for Fouts. Giving Bullet a 5-4 edge over Blade.

[st.cronin]

dola, sorry 5-3

[Blade6119]

I have Qwik voting for Bullet, Fouts voting for Qwik, and Grey voting for Fouts. Giving Bullet a 5-4 edge over Blade.

Where does that 4th vote come from on me? I see it as 5-3

[Fouts]

vote jail fouts

more of a vengeance vote than anything as the guy never trusts me.

That isn't going to help me trust you. :)

[Blade6119]

nm lol

[hoopsguy]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Greyroofoo http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/styles/sideline/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?p=1257459#post1257459)
vote jail fouts

more of a vengeance vote than anything as the guy never trusts me.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That isn't going to help me trust you. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/smile.gif


FWIW, I struggle with trust issues around Fouts as well. Although I made a very serious effort last game to work through them.

[st.cronin]

By the way, I think there is a fairly decent chance that grey actually is an assasin - better than the normal day 1 crapshoot, anyway. Everybody has at least one person cleared, and while the assasins still have the ability to move the vote, I think if votes started piling up on one of their own, they wouldn't have a play.

Basically, if the usual day 1 vote has a 1% chance of hitting a badguy, I think this game's odds are more like 2.5%.

[hoopsguy]

Grey or Bullet? Just checking to see if I'm following you correctly.

[st.cronin]

Sorry, bullet - I always get those two confused.

[Chief Rum]

I have reason to believe, based on my initial PM, that there are at least five and maybe even six factions, most likely with three members each. It's just a guess, but I think we are operating with a ton of factions here.

[WVUFAN]

This is terribly confusing.

[Chief Rum]

It's voting time isn't it? 9:30 p.m. EST?

[Mr. Wednesday]

We're in the limbo between the voting deadline and Barkeep officially kicking off the night cycle.

[Barkeep49]

Ok official results up shortly. It'll be quick tonight as I don't have to do any point totaling right away, but on any night with an execution give me at least a half hour to figure out the points.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, when you do post point totals will it only be reflecting the person who was executed? Or will they also include a person who was jailed on that same day?

[Barkeep49]

The history books have been opened. There are several among you who think there is a great deal to be learned from the past. And intent on doing so there is an active discussion for the first day. After seeming like it was going to be a see-saw between the grizzled Blade and Hoops instead things turned in a different direction towards Bulletsponge. At the end of the day it was bulletsponge who found himself being led away to the jail.

What will tomorrow bring? If nothing else twice the decision. Who do you send to jail next? And what do you do with the person sitting in jail?

Final Vote Count and order


Chief Rum Hoopsguy
Anxiety Blade
Mr. Wednesday Blade
WVUFan Blade
Bulletsponge Cronin
Dodgerchick Ntndeacon
Hoopsguy Bulletsponge
st.cronin bulletsponge
Blade6119 bulletsponge
Lonestargirl cronin
Lathum Mr. Wednesday
RealDeal Lathum
Ntndeacon Bulletsponge
BrianD Chief
Fouts Qwikshot
Greyroofoo Fouts
Qwikshot Bulletsponge

Bulletsponge 5 – Hoopsguy, stcronin, blade, ntn, qwikshot
Blade 3 – Anxiety, Mr. Wednesday, WVU
Cronin 2 – Bullet, Lonestar
Chief 1 – Brian
Fouts 1 – Greyroofoo
Hoopsguy 1 – Chief Rum
Lathum 1 – Real Deal
NTNDeacon 1 – Dodgerchick
Qwikshot 1 – Fouts
Mr. Wednesday 1 - Lathum

No votes: Bek, Lathum, King

[Greyroofoo]

Did Bek, Lathum, or King ever check in?

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, when you do post point totals will it only be reflecting the person who was executed? Or will they also include a person who was jailed on that same day?
Thanks for asking. That was a rule that didn't make its way into the final rules. All jail points will lag a day before being reflected. So if you Jail a person on Day 2, the points for that, good or bad, won't be shown until the next time a person is executed (Day 3 at the earliest).

[hoopsguy]

OK, I just read the thread and am going in a different direction. He has been all over the place and for me that is a little strange on day one, it seems he may be trying to force people to tip their hand.

VOTE JAIL MRWEDNESDAY

I believe Lathum got his vote in during Post #283 - so just Bek and King that did not vote today.

[Lathum]

WTF. post #283 I voted for Mr Wed?

[Chief Rum]

So we really learn nothing here. I can see this will be a slow developing game.

[Barkeep49]

WTF. post #283 I voted for Mr Wed?
My apologies. Updated now.

[Lathum]

My apologies. Updated now.

Lets get it right Mr. Moderator. :p

[Barkeep49]

If you notice one faction tomorrow with -25 points that's Lathum's faction. There's a secret "make a snide remark to the GM" penalty. :)

[WVUFAN]

Bulletsponge 5 – Hoopsguy, stcronin, blade, ntn, qwikshot
Blade 3 – Anxiety, Mr. Wednesday, WVU
Cronin 2 – Bullet, Lonestar
Chief 1 – Brian
Fouts 1 – Greyroofoo
Hoopsguy 1 – Chief Rum
Lathum 1 – Real Deal
NTNDeacon 1 – Dodgerchick
Fouts 1 – Qwikshot
Mr. Wednesday 1 - Lathum

Which one did he vote for?

[Barkeep49]

Which one did he vote for?
Fouts voted for Qwikshot and Qwikshot voted for bullet.

That's one reason I'm putting the raw vote log. To figure out who is executed and such I simply do a sort and count and I base all points off the log. I am normally a good record keeper, but my transcription into a tally can sometimes be off. So flipping Fouts and Qwikshot is something I've, unfortunately, proven prone to do. Missing a vote, is not.

[WVUFAN]

Fouts voted for Qwikshot and Qwikshot voted for bullet.

That's one reason I'm putting the raw vote log. To figure out who is executed and such I simply do a sort and count and I base all points off the log. I am normally a good record keeper, but my transcription into a tally can sometimes be off. So flipping Fouts and Qwikshot is something I've, unfortunately, proven prone to do. Missing a vote, is not.

That's cool. I wasn't being sarcastic, I just wanted to be clear on how the vote went. :-)

[Barkeep49]

That's cool. I wasn't being sarcastic, I just wanted to be clear on how the vote went. :-)
Sarcastic or not I wanted to give a good explanation since the votes are more important in this game than most.

[bulletsponge]

The history books have been opened. There are several among you who think there is a great deal to be learned from the past. And intent on doing so there is an active discussion for the first day. After seeming like it was going to be a see-saw between the grizzled Blade and Hoops instead things turned in a different direction towards Bulletsponge. At the end of the day it was bulletsponge who found himself being led away to the jail.

What will tomorrow bring? If nothing else twice the decision. Who do you send to jail next? And what do you do with the person sitting in jail?

Final Vote Count and order



Bulletsponge 5 – Hoopsguy, stcronin, blade, ntn, qwikshot
Blade 3 – Anxiety, Mr. Wednesday, WVU
Cronin 2 – Bullet, Lonestar
Chief 1 – Brian
Fouts 1 – Greyroofoo
Hoopsguy 1 – Chief Rum
Lathum 1 – Real Deal
NTNDeacon 1 – Dodgerchick
Qwikshot 1 – Fouts
Mr. Wednesday 1 - Lathum

No votes: Bek, Lathum, King


Awww screw all of you! how can i get out of jail? i better not drop the soap :eek:

[bulletsponge]

someone post my bail. all they want is 1 testical, please i dont want to spend the night guarding my tight behind

[bulletsponge]

ohh i see how it it. throw me in jail and ignore me then. if one of yall get thrown in here tomorow ill make you my b***h

[bulletsponge]

http://www.smileyhut.com/scared/sweat.gif

[st.cronin]

lol

[LoneStarGirl]

Wow, I am finally through catching up. I think once tomorrow hits and we see the points it will clear a lot up. Right now I am a little on the lost side, but im sure it will all unravel soon.

[bulletsponge]

at least i cant be killed while alone in jail

[bulletsponge]

lol

grrrrrr. ill be one of those ex-cons who comes out of jail looking for revenge. so laugh while you can

[hoopsguy]

Lonestargirl, it sounds like we will not be seeing points until an execution. So we need to come to some kind of thought process on Bullet tomorrow on this front in addition to moving forward with another vote.

[st.cronin]

Is it possible for bullet to recieve messages while in jail?

[bulletsponge]

Is it possible for bullet to recieve messages while in jail?

you want to sneak a message in to me? you know where that paper message has to go to get it by the guard right? http://www.smileyhut.com/scared/eekout.gif


seriously, i dont know

[Mr. Wednesday]

If he has a favored role (one exists for both nobles and assassins).

I'm guessing he'd know that if he had one of those roles, so we may probably assume that whatever else he may be, he's not favored.

[st.cronin]

If he has a favored role (one exists for both nobles and assassins).

I'm guessing he'd know that if he had one of those roles, so we may probably assume that whatever else he may be, he's not favored.

I didn't see that in the rules. Where did you get that info?

[st.cronin]

The reason I ask, is, I assume that bullet is either in a faction or an assasin - either way, somebody will likely try and 'clear' him, or at least convince us not to execute him. What I haven't figured out is how we will be able to tell if this action comes from assasin or noble.

[Abe Sargent]

Of course, st.cronin, if someone comes forward to ID bullet, it could be an assassin trying to get in a guild or a guild member trying to jump guild identification.

-Anxiety

[Mr. Wednesday]

I didn't see that in the rules. Where did you get that info?

...

Favored Noble
Things have always gone this Noble’s way. If this Noble ends up in jail they may still send or receive their faction’s messages thanks to the kindness of the guards. This player may have an additional role.

Favored Assassin
Things have always gone this Assassin’s way. If this Assassin ends up in jail they may still send or receive messages thanks to the kindness of the guards. This player may have an additional role.

[Mr. Wednesday]

The reason I ask, is, I assume that bullet is either in a faction or an assasin - either way, somebody will likely try and 'clear' him, or at least convince us not to execute him. What I haven't figured out is how we will be able to tell if this action comes from assasin or noble.

We won't be able to tell with any certainty.

It's possible that someone will come forward to vouch for him being in a faction, but our ability to determine the veracity of the claim will be very limited.

[Barkeep49]

Heading to work now. Still missing a night action. Hopefully I'll recieve it when I get there. Day 2 will likely begin about 8 AM.

[Fouts]

Heading to work now. Still missing a night action. Hopefully I'll recieve it when I get there. Day 2 will likely begin about 8 AM.

Hmm, doesn't bode well for those that haven't checked in.

[Barkeep49]

The night passes. In the morning nobles start to gather in small groups around the castle. Most chat amiably. A few arguments break out, but tempers are cooled before the fragile peace of the country can be broken. It is not to all are assembled in the main hall that a realization is made. Except for bulletsponge, noisly rotting away in the jail, all are present and accounted for. Some smile at this, thinking perhaps the rumors of the assassins are wrong, or perhaps the assassins just aren't that good. Others take a far more dim view thinking of a million scenarios which suggest that this is disaster.

Day 2 has begun.

[LoneStarGirl]

Damnit, I dont understand this. But lol on the "bulletsponge, noisly rotting away in the jail"

[hoopsguy]

Worst case scenario is that the assassins got a fast talker to join up with them last night. That could really hamper our efforts at making sense out of the messages from yesterday.

Barkeep, if there are multiple people in jail are we able to send in multiple Execute orders? Or are we restricted to one execute per day?

[Barkeep49]

Up to one execution per day.

[Fouts]

Interesting that there are no deaths overnight. When in Rome, do as the Romans do?

[bulletsponge]

Grrr im not rotting, more wasting away. Now get me outta here! im not an assassin!

[hoopsguy]

Interesting that there are no deaths overnight. When in Rome, do as the Romans do?

This is going to be a fun day of trying to break codes :confused:

[bulletsponge]

why do yall want to kill me? im just a scapegoat. and yall should be well aware of only the villagers die first in the game

[Fouts]

This is going to be a fun day of trying to break codes :confused:

Again?? :)

[Fouts]

why do yall want to kill me? im just a scapegoat. and yall should be well aware of only the villagers die first in the game

Well, help me figure this one out.

bullet in jail + no deaths = ?

[bulletsponge]

Well, help me figure this one out.

bullet in jail + no deaths = ?

yea. the assassins know they can hang me by laying low for a day

[Fouts]

yea. the assassins know they can hang me by laying low for a day

Not looking good for you, unless somebody steps up and vouches that you are good. Do you see that happening?

[Lathum]

Hmm, doesn't bode well for those that haven't checked in.

as much as I don't like to use that strategy I think it bears looking at.

Someone not checking in + missing night actions = not good.

Barkeep, can you confirm if you did receive all night actions?

[Barkeep49]

I was missing a night action from someone who voted yesterday.

[Lathum]

bk, I may have missed it. Who dropped out?

[bulletsponge]

Not looking good for you, unless somebody steps up and vouches that you are good. Do you see that happening?

yes. i hope so

[BrianD]

Well, help me figure this one out.

bullet in jail + no deaths = ?

I don't think no deaths indicates Bullet is bad. Assassin kills are probably decided by a consensus of assassins, so Bullet wouldn't be the only one that could make the kill. It is possible that Bullet is good and the assassins don't want to tip us off by killing someone that might make people question the Bullet jailing, but it is more likely that they have something else planned.

[hoopsguy]

Agree with BrianD on this one - the fact that there was no kill last night strongly indicates a conversion of a fast talking noble. Other explanation is a blocked kill/jailbreak, but there is nothing in Barkeep's night action report to suggest this.

The assassins will want to exercise their kill. In doing so they weaken the ability of another faction to get points. Which makes it easier for them to accumulate their points faster. Taking a night off to put pressure on the guy in jail makes very little sense to me.

[Mr. Wednesday]

The possibilities are:
* Clever assassin action (alternate action in lieu of kill)
* Tricky assassin action (kill was done but will have delayed action)
* Attempt to kill a fast-talker, who is now an assassin
* Attempt to kill someone who was otherwise protected

If it was the last, we might hear about it in the course of the day.

[Mr. Wednesday]

It's also possible (but unlikely) that the assassins managed to screw up and not take any action at all. I think it's more likely, though, that Barkeep's missing action was one of the other roles... e.g. a leader forgetting to send a message to his faction.

[st.cronin]

I actually did NOT get a message last night. So, that feature of the game has been mighty helpful to me so far.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Now that I see Barkeep advertising for a replacement, it's possible that's who needs to be replaced. :eek:

[RealDeal]

if we don't have any other leads, might be smart to jail the replacement right away.

[st.cronin]

dola - bullet is not my faction leader, which otherwise would explain why I did not get a message.

2 possibilities - my faction leader whiffed on the night action, and is being replaced, or my faction is now compromised somehow. But I thought when that happened the faction members would still get the messages. So, I don't know.

[hoopsguy]

Never saw King or Bek yesterday, which makes it hard to play the game with them.

Blade, if you are talking with Bek please tell him to report :)

I'm pretty sure King posted in some other threads yesterday - if that is the case then it is pretty inconvenient for us that he did not post here.

[Mr. Wednesday]

dola - bullet is not my faction leader, which otherwise would explain why I did not get a message.

2 possibilities - my faction leader whiffed on the night action, and is being replaced, or my faction is now compromised somehow. But I thought when that happened the faction members would still get the messages. So, I don't know.
Could have been turned, which would account for the no message plus no kill, but not the missing night action.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola... absent a firm explanation for not receiving a message from the faction leader, I would suggest going after him tomorrow if we also don't get one tonight.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, I'm in agreement with MrW here that there should be some kind of explanation forthcoming from the faction leader. He has put himself at risk if he did not submit his night action - we are going to be relying on you (and your fellow faction members) to help navigate this course correctly.

[st.cronin]

I don't know if I agree with that - and not just because we're talking about my faction leader. If he had been turned, wouldn't he have still sent a message? I think it's more likely that the message was sent in good faith, but intercepted.

[st.cronin]

I agree that the other faction members could be of some help ... if I knew who they were. Right now I'm just not 100% on anybody.

[hoopsguy]

Noble Leader
This is the person who the faction is trying to get crowned King. This person is known to all members of his faction, however he does not know who any of the members of his faction are. During the night cycle he may send a 15 word message to all members of his faction. The Noble Leader’s vote counts as double for all Jail and Free votes. Finally, the Noble Leader may designate either even or odd days and on those days will receive protection, preventing the Noble Leader from being killed. If the Noble Leader is killed or executed, a new member of the faction (based on a secret order determined before the start of the game by the GM) becomes Noble Leader after 1 cycle (either day or night).

Fast Talking Noble
If targeted by the assassins to be killed, this smooth talker will convince the assassins that he is on their side and becomes an assassin. This Noble will still receive all messages from the Noble leader but will count as an assassin for all point purposes. If the known Noble Leader dies after the Fast Talking Noble has become an assassin, he will not learn the identity of the new Noble Leader. A Fast Talking Noble who is an Assassin, will remain in line to become the Noble Leader. Nobles won’t know if they are this role, until they targeted by the assassins and it is possible that the Assassins will only put up with so many "fast talkers" before they will start to ignore such people. This Noble may have an additional role, but will lose those role's powers if they become an assassin.


Barkeep, have a couple of questions:
1. Can a Noble Leader also hold another role?
2. If an assassin assumes the role of Noble Leader do they retain the ability to send out messages to their faction?

[st.cronin]

Hoops, I don't think the answer is there. I suspect that the message was intercepted by assasins. Barkeep's explanation via pm makes me strongly suspect that my faction leader is still in the game. Another explanation could be that he chose not to send out a message intentionally.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I was operating under the assumption that the answer to question 1 is yes and to 2 is no, the latter being consistent with how such matters have functioned in the past.

[st.cronin]

dola

Although I guess it's possible he was turned. That would be an odd mechanism, though.

[hoopsguy]

I suspect that the message was intercepted by assasins

Cronin, maybe I'm missing the role in the game that allows the assassins to prevent the transmission of a message.

I see that they can gain access to the messages, but not stop their delivery.

[Blade6119]

Never saw King or Bek yesterday, which makes it hard to play the game with them.

Blade, if you are talking with Bek please tell him to report :)

I left bek a voicemail last night. I do not know his schedule today like i did yesterday, so if he does not show today i currently have no explanation.

[RealDeal]

until bek reports:

vote jail bek

[Mr. Wednesday]

From the department of "hmmm"...
Each night the Assassins have a 1 in 10 chance (1/10) of discovering a Noble Leader’s message. Once they discover a Noble Leader’s message they will receive all of that Leader’s messages. If the faction gains a new noble leader, the Assassins will no longer receive the Noble Leader’s messages. The assassins may only be receiving two factions messages at one time.

I don't think that has anything to do with our present situation (it implies, to me, that the assassins are eavesdropping rather than outright intercepting), but it does introduce an interesting complication that I had not previously considered, should they be fortunate enough to get a hit.

[st.cronin]

Cronin, maybe I'm missing the role in the game that allows the assassins to prevent the transmission of a message.

I see that they can gain access to the messages, but not stop their delivery.


I don't exactly see it in the rules, either. But, assuming it is possible, there are 4 possibilities.

1. faction leader dropped out of game
2. faction leader chose not to send a message
3. faction leader was turned
4. message was sent and intercepted

I guess I'm starting to see 3 as most likely. I'll wait for some more people to chime in before I proceed.

[st.cronin]

dola - how does the voting work today? Do we vote to jail somebody, AND vote on executing bullet, or do we only cast one vote, either jail/execute/no execute?

[ntndeacon]

I don't know if I agree with that - and not just because we're talking about my faction leader. If he had been turned, wouldn't he have still sent a message? I think it's more likely that the message was sent in good faith, but intercepted.

Perhaps, but it seems that nobles in a faction whose message was intercepted would be unaware of that fact.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, I'll turn towards #3 on that list when I see that the message ability is stripped if a leader is turned.

If a Leader can also be the Fast Talker, and retains the ability to send messages as the Leader/Assassin, then it would be very much in their best interests to continue sending messages to avoid detection.

[ntndeacon]

Cronin, I tend to think that #1 or #2 are the most likely. I think if an assassin becomes/became a Faction Leader, that that assassin would be able to send messages to that faction.

[Blade6119]

Cronin, I tend to think that #1 or #2 are the most likely. I think if an assassin becomes/became a Faction Leader, that that assassin would be able to send messages to that faction.

The fact fast talking nobles can become faction leaders and even become crowned means they must be able to send messages. If not, it would disrupt that entire element of the game.

[BrianD]

At this point, I am going to be looking at the super-quiet folks for my jail vote. If we can't learn from their words, we can learn from the points we get for killing them.

[hoopsguy]

Blade/NTN - I'm on the same page with you guys. So if a faction leader was turned, then why in the world would he fail to send a message?

That is why I posed the question to Barkeep. I want to make sure that I'm understanding the game mechanics (I think I do, I do not KNOW that I do) before making assumptions on this point.

[BrianD]

dola - how does the voting work today? Do we vote to jail somebody, AND vote on executing bullet, or do we only cast one vote, either jail/execute/no execute?

I believe today we vote on Bullet (execute/free/leave-in-jail), and we vote to jail someone else. If a situation comes up where we have multiple people in jail, we have only one execute/free vote. Feel free to correct me if I've got this wrong.

[st.cronin]

I am going to wait to see who gets replaced before I cast a jail vote. I do think I can do this though:

EXECUTE BULLETSPONGE

More to see who comes to his defense and how than anything else.

[Blade6119]

Blade/NTN - I'm on the same page with you guys. So if a faction leader was turned, then why in the world would he fail to send a message?

That is why I posed the question to Barkeep. I want to make sure that I'm understanding the game mechanics (I think I do, I do not KNOW that I do) before making assumptions on this point.

I figured it had more to do with a faction leader simply not being around to send one or forgetting to do so.

Though, to be fair, only st. cronin claims to have not gotten one so far. And while im not asking his faction to reveal, he was my top suspect coming into today. I dont put as much weight into it as you might, so i might not be the best person to ask.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Blade, you should have played enough to know that "early" claims like that, especially when not under duress, tend to be truthful.

[BrianD]

Blade/NTN - I'm on the same page with you guys. So if a faction leader was turned, then why in the world would he fail to send a message?

That is why I posed the question to Barkeep. I want to make sure that I'm understanding the game mechanics (I think I do, I do not KNOW that I do) before making assumptions on this point.

Is it possible that the faction leader believes that all of the necessary info has already been given and he/she didn't have anything interesting to say on this particular day?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, it's especially dangerous for an assassin to make any claim on messages from their leader, unless they've intercepted a leader's communications...

[Mr. Wednesday]

Is it possible that the faction leader believes that all of the necessary info has already been given and he/she didn't have anything interesting to say on this particular day?
That's why I suggested waiting until tomorrow to act on it. Personally, given st.cronin's well-avowed concern with the ambiguity of identifying his compatriots, I think it's doubtful, but it's within the realm of possibility.

[Blade6119]

Blade, you should have played enough to know that "early" claims like that, especially when not under duress, tend to be truthful.

Its very possible. I didnt say it wasnt true, i just said i take things said by my top suspect with a little less weight then other players.

[st.cronin]

Its very possible. I didnt say it wasnt true, i just said i take things said by my top suspect with a little less weight then other players.

I was your top suspect ...? That's ... strange.

:D

[hoopsguy]

Hey, I'm just glad to have a game where I'm not Blade's top suspect for about five days running :)

[hoopsguy]

Upon further review of my notes from yesterday, Bullet is the only person who I had absolutely no theories on their posts to align them with a faction. I'm sure a number of yesterday's theories are incorrect, but I couldn't come up with any way to tie him with anyone.

VOTE EXECUTE BULLETSPONGE

[st.cronin]

I have been trying to think of a way to check if anybody else didn't get a message, and I think I have it: If anybody didn't get a message, take the first letter of each word of the first message, and make a message with it. So, for example, if the first message was "The Wisconsin Badgers will beat the Indiana Hoosiers this week", please type something like

This will be weird because tonight I'm hoping to win some money playing poker.

Obviously without the bolds. Also, only one person do this - if you see that somebody already did this, it won't be neccesary. This is for my information only.

[BrianD]

Upon further review of my notes from yesterday, Bullet is the only person who I had absolutely no theories on their posts to align them with a faction. I'm sure a number of yesterday's theories are incorrect, but I couldn't come up with any way to tie him with anyone.

VOTE EXECUTE BULLETSPONGE

Out of curiosity, how many people did you tie to factions? I don't need to know who is with who or anything like that, I'm just curious how many individuals you identified.

[Lorena]

I'm catching up, cya'll in a little bit.

[hoopsguy]

19 players, excluding me 18.
I knew my faction leader, so 17 remain.
2 people didn't post, leaving me 15 people to evaluate.

I have notes, outside of the first post #, for all but Bulletsponge. Doesn't mean that the notes contain good info, but 14 people have notes for me to reference today to try and build upon (or refute) my Day 1 impressions.

[Barkeep49]

Not all caught up, but Bek has dropped out of the game and been replaced by Sndvls. SnDvls has recieved any appropriate messages.

[SnDvls]

give me some time to get caught up reading 9 pages is a lot to digest.

[st.cronin]

Bek was NOT my faction leader.

[Barkeep49]

Ok two questions I can answer.

1. Noble Leaders can have another role. However, no noble leader who begins the game as a noble leader is a Fast Talking Noble. Of course as Noble Leaders die, and fast talking nobles become converted, it's possible for a Fast Talker to become Noble Leader. A Noble Leader may other roles that state "may also have an additional role".

2. You need ot make two votes today. And there are two seperate vote counts. So far the vote counts look like:

Execution/No Execution/Free
Execute Bulletsponge 2 -- SnDvls, hoopsguy

Jail
Bek 1 -- RealDeal

[hoopsguy]

Looking forward to catching up later this afternoon, SnDvls. I think this is going to be a fun game and I'm glad to have you aboard.

[st.cronin]

Ok two questions I can answer.

1. Noble Leaders can have another role. However, no noble leader who begins the game as a noble leader is a Fast Talking Noble. Of course as Noble Leaders die, and fast talking nobles become converted, it's possible for a Fast Talker to become Noble Leader. A Noble Leader may other roles that state "may also have an additional role".

2. You need ot make two votes today. And there are two seperate vote counts. So far the vote counts look like:

Execution/No Execution/Free
Execute Bulletsponge 2 -- SnDvls, hoopsguy

Jail
Bek 1 -- RealDeal


I think that should be me and hoops, not SnDvls and hoops, voting to execute the bulletsponge.

[BrianD]

19 players, excluding me 18.
I knew my faction leader, so 17 remain.
2 people didn't post, leaving me 15 people to evaluate.

I have notes, outside of the first post #, for all but Bulletsponge. Doesn't mean that the notes contain good info, but 14 people have notes for me to reference today to try and build upon (or refute) my Day 1 impressions.

So how many people do you have on a faction (not assassin)? I see you voted for Bullet because you didn't get a good read. Does that mean everyone else has been assigned to a faction? It just seems odd to me that you select someone you didn't get a read on rather than trying to get a better read on him.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Hmm. So that would tend to indicate an oversight on the part of the leader in question. That changes things considerably, thanks.

st.cronin, I think that's a good concept but I'm not convinced it can be pulled off without being really obvious.

[Blade6119]

Is king being replaced as well?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Wow, new digs. :)

[st.cronin]

Hmm. So that would tend to indicate an oversight on the part of the leader in question. That changes things considerably, thanks.

st.cronin, I think that's a good concept but I'm not convinced it can be pulled off without being really obvious.

We'll see. What I'm trying to figure out is if I was in the only one in my faction who did NOT get a message, which indicates some sort of shenanigans - intercept by assasins, or another faction, or something else. If there is anybody else who did not get a message, then I will just chalk it up to an odd choice from faction leader.

[BrianD]

Ugh, this is seriously inconvenient. Now it takes way too many clicks to bounce from the general forum to here, and I can't peruse the general forum and see when a new post was made here. Boo to the new home.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so we can dismiss the co-opted Noble Leader at this stage of the game, since Barkeep said no original leaders are Fast Talkers in Post #428.

So that leaves the scenario that a faction leader, for whatever reason, did not send a message. I don't believe it was intercepted because that is not in the rules.

[st.cronin]

OK, so we can dismiss the co-opted Noble Leader at this stage of the game, since Barkeep said no original leaders are Fast Talkers in Post #428.

So that leaves the scenario that a faction leader, for whatever reason, did not send a message. I don't believe it was intercepted because that is not in the rules.

Leaning to buying this theory as well, although really puzzled by it.

[hoopsguy]

Brian, my thought was that on Day 1 it would be the hardest day for the assassins to get acclimated. But they would learn lessons from it and do a better job on Day 2.

I'm certainly not convinced that all of my notes are accurate, otherwise we would be starting with a single assassin. But linkage is good because I can follow those (perceived?) relationships later in the game. Today I get to validate/refute some of my suspected relationships from yesterday. And, hopefully, with each passing day those associations become stronger until I figure out the factions. From there, it will be a matter of aligning the points to the factions. When that happens, we consistently nail assassins.

I'm sure Barkeep does not want the game to be a math exercise like this, so the rules have been polished to make this more challenging. But until proven otherwise, that is the approach I'm planning to take.


One other tangent that goes back to the original question - if Bullet is aligned with a faction that does not include assassins then they will have an opportunity to speak up today and save him. Assuming, of course, that they were able to identify him yesterday based on his posts.

[BrianD]

One other tangent that goes back to the original question - if Bullet is aligned with a faction that does not include assassins then they will have an opportunity to speak up today and save him. Assuming, of course, that they were able to identify him yesterday based on his posts.

But then you run into the question of whether it is better for people to out their faction or not.

[st.cronin]

I am going to cast my second vote now:

JAIL BLADE

Nothing solid, but if Bek needed replacing, he probably was NOT an assasin. Assasins wouldn't need to check in every night. I'm going to guess he has a different role.

[st.cronin]

dola

As for Blade, he didn't really get involved in the game til after hoops fingered him. Somewhat uncharacteristic. And I don't know that hoops initial suspicions were ever cleared up, were they?

[Lorena]

Is this maggot yours? No.

I think it was an oversight, we might be reading too much into this. But then again, anything is possible.

[Blade6119]

dola

As for Blade, he didn't really get involved in the game til after hoops fingered him. Somewhat uncharacteristic. And I don't know that hoops initial suspicions were ever cleared up, were they?

Two things, i find this hilarious this comes out after i say your my top suspect. Secondly, hoops stated the reason he was after me was he felt i was trying to crack a code. Later in the day he stated i was apart of what he felt was an emerging group of nobles. Just hilarious

VOTE JAIL ST. CRONIN

[hoopsguy]

But then you run into the question of whether it is better for people to out their faction or not.

Brian, my thoughts on this are that it would be better for two people to be linked to a common faction than to see one of their members die because we are about to jail/execute the wrong person. Obviously others may have a different view on this issue and will act accordingly. But if push comes to shove for me, I am quite sure I would speak up on behalf of "Player X" if they were going to be endangered.

Releasing that kind of information is not 100% bad. It puts the assassins in an interesting spot because they don't want any kind of villager linkage to be out there publicly. This leads to "trust lists", which remain the biggest threat to them. Everyone has their own faction trust list, but now many people would have an expanding trust list beyond their own faction. That would absolutely have to factor into night decisions for the assassins.

Anyways, I'm not telling someone to reveal a role/faction here. Just laying out my thoughts on the matter in broad terms. Personally, it would be very convenient for me to have someone align themselves with Bullet to save me the negative points if he is indeed a noble. But everyone is going to make what they feel is the right decision with the information they have. Just like in every other WW game.

[st.cronin]

Two things, i find this hilarious this comes out after i say your my top suspect. Secondly, hoops stated the reason he was after me was he felt i was trying to crack a code. Later in the day he stated i was apart of what he felt was an emerging group of nobles. Just hilarious

VOTE JAIL ST. CRONIN


Ok, well explain why I was your top suspect please.

[st.cronin]

dola

note that hoops said BOTH of us were part of an "emerging group of nobles" whatever that means

[Lorena]

OT: I noticed I lost a shitload of posts. Looks like Skydog created a new category just for us! lol :D

[Blade6119]

Ok, well explain why I was your top suspect please.

You made a few remarks yesterday that caught my eye. One in particular about your trust list. I had been giving you the benefit of the doubt yesterday as hoops voted bullet for voting you, saying "you voted someone i trust." I had assumed this meant you 2 were in the same faction. Today, it has become quite clear that is not the case. I know you are not apart of my faction. Couple those 2 items with the knowledge i feel i gained from one of your posts in particular last night you are my top suspect.

It appears dodgerchick is associating with you now, but you remain my #1. Is that explanation sufficient?

[Lorena]

You made a few remarks yesterday that caught my eye. One in particular about your trust list. I had been giving you the benefit of the doubt yesterday as hoops voted bullet for voting you, saying "you voted someone i trust." I had assumed this meant you 2 were in the same faction. Today, it has become quite clear that is not the case. I know you are not apart of my faction. Couple those 2 items with the knowledge i feel i gained from one of your posts in particular last night you are my top suspect.

It appears dodgerchick is associating with you now, but you remain my #1. Is that explanation sufficient?

Would you mind sharing those remarks?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Nothing solid, but if Bek needed replacing, he probably was NOT an assasin. Assasins wouldn't need to check in every night. I'm going to guess he has a different role.

:confused:

It's more important for an assassin to check in every night than it is for an average player, but I don't really see what that has to do with Bek getting replaced.

[st.cronin]

You made a few remarks yesterday that caught my eye. One in particular about your trust list. I had been giving you the benefit of the doubt yesterday as hoops voted bullet for voting you, saying "you voted someone i trust." I had assumed this meant you 2 were in the same faction. Today, it has become quite clear that is not the case. I know you are not apart of my faction. Couple those 2 items with the knowledge i feel i gained from one of your posts in particular last night you are my top suspect.

It appears dodgerchick is associating with you now, but you remain my #1. Is that explanation sufficient?

I see. As usual you are most suspicious of people who post most, when in almost every game the wolves are the people who don't post - at all. What do you think you learned from this mysterious post I made last night? And which post is it?

By the way, I don't know a single person in my faction OTHER than my faction leader. I have been saying that since yesterday. If I were an assasin, why would I play that way?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Is this maggot yours? No.

I think it was an oversight, we might be reading too much into this. But then again, anything is possible.

You weren't supposed to make it blindingly obvious. :p

(Not that I mind... it helps me...)

[RealDeal]

unvote jail bek

since he's no longer in the game

vote jail Sndvls

The moderator decided to replace bek right away, but not king? And there was no kill last night? I'm wondering if sndvls may be stepping into an assasin's shoes.

vote execute bulletsponge

will give us some info, at a minimum.

[kingfc22]

Sorry guys. Had a crazy day at work yesterday then I hurt my knee during a softball game at night. Didn't really feel like reading all these posts in a WW game.

Did BK post the point totals? Or did I miss it in the rules somewhere that he won't be posting these?

Jail Lathum

I'm not sure if he is an assasin or not but I have better reads on other players who I feel are nobles.

[st.cronin]

:confused:

It's more important for an assassin to check in every night than it is for an average player, but I don't really see what that has to do with Bek getting replaced.

It's more important for the ASSASINS, not an individual assasin. I know when I ran a game, one of the wolves spent several days completely offline.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, it probably helps the other members of your faction too.

[hoopsguy]

For what it is worth, I switched off Blade yesterday because I had found some potential affiliations around him as the day unfolded. That does not mean that I absolutely trust him.

I have a higher level of trust for Cronin than I do for Blade at this point in the game. I held the same opinion before Dodgerchick aligned herself with Cronin.

I didn't want there to be an assumption that I have "cleared" anyone as of yet, but there are varying levels of trust.

[Mr. Wednesday]

It's more important for the ASSASINS, not an individual assasin. I know when I ran a game, one of the wolves spent several days completely offline.

That's very dangerous. I remember a game (not sure, offhand, who ran it) that collapsed because the bad guys all managed to go inactive at once over a period of a day or two.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Did BK post the point totals? Or did I miss it in the rules somewhere that he won't be posting these?
Point totals will be posted after we execute bulletsponge.

Don't forget to cast your execute/no execute/free vote.

[Abe Sargent]

Complex stuff to get caught up on. I'm not sure where to go today. Hmm.

[kingfc22]

Did BK post the point totals? Or did I miss it in the rules somewhere that he won't be posting these?

Ah, nevermind. Found the info I needed.

[st.cronin]

Potential affiliations could work both ways, though. Wouldn't it make sense for the assasins to pretend to be just another faction? And play that way?

[Blade6119]

The moderator decided to replace bek right away, but not king?

I didnt understand this move either...:(

[Mr. Wednesday]

Potential affiliations could work both ways, though. Wouldn't it make sense for the assasins to pretend to be just another faction? And play that way?
The trick, of course, is pulling it off.

[BrianD]

Brian, my thoughts on this are that it would be better for two people to be linked to a common faction than to see one of their members die because we are about to jail/execute the wrong person. Obviously others may have a different view on this issue and will act accordingly. But if push comes to shove for me, I am quite sure I would speak up on behalf of "Player X" if they were going to be endangered.

Releasing that kind of information is not 100% bad. It puts the assassins in an interesting spot because they don't want any kind of villager linkage to be out there publicly. This leads to "trust lists", which remain the biggest threat to them. Everyone has their own faction trust list, but now many people would have an expanding trust list beyond their own faction. That would absolutely have to factor into night decisions for the assassins.

Anyways, I'm not telling someone to reveal a role/faction here. Just laying out my thoughts on the matter in broad terms. Personally, it would be very convenient for me to have someone align themselves with Bullet to save me the negative points if he is indeed a noble. But everyone is going to make what they feel is the right decision with the information they have. Just like in every other WW game.

Free Bulletsponge
Jail st.cronin

[st.cronin]

Interesting.

[kingfc22]

Interesting.

Indeed.

[Abe Sargent]

Did Brian D just imply he is in the same faction ass bullet? I think so.

Free Bulletsponge

[st.cronin]

UNVOTE EXECUTE BULLETSPONGE

VOTE NO EXECUTION

So, currently I have bullet staying in jail and Blade joining him. I will probably NOT be around at deadline.

[kingfc22]

I'll go along with this for now.

FREE BULLETSPONGE

[Barkeep49]

Only saw one thing besides this hideous new forum.

I replaced Bek because he asked to be replaced. IF someone hadn't bene around after today I'd have chosen to replace him. So Bek was replaced only because he bowed out voluntarily

[Chief Rum]

Still hours away from deadline and lots to catch up on.

Do we really need to consider the value of executing bulletsponge for the points revelation? Or do we accept Brian's ploy as support for bulletsponge as a member of his faction?

BrianD, could you explain your move alittle further?

[Blade6119]

Only saw one thing besides this hideous new forum.

I replaced Bek because he asked to be replaced. IF someone hadn't bene around after today I'd have chosen to replace him. So Bek was replaced only because he bowed out voluntarily

Wow, last time i talked to bek 2 days ago he was rearing and ready to go. He even is in transition between jobs and has free time....wonder why he dropped.

[hoopsguy]

I'm willing to accept Brian's action as vouching for Bullet.

FREE BULLETSPONGE

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think jailing st.cronin is a mistake.

Also, I'm not going to follow a vote without some justification for it.

[st.cronin]

Wait ... why do we neccesarily want to FREE bulletsponge? I can understand not executing him, but isn't it to our advantage to leave him in jail for the time being?

[BrianD]

Wait ... why do we neccesarily want to FREE bulletsponge? I can understand not executing him, but isn't it to our advantage to leave him in jail for the time being?

How would that be to our advantage?

[BrianD]

I think jailing st.cronin is a mistake.

Also, I'm not going to follow a vote without some justification for it.

I suppose you would think that...

[st.cronin]

How would that be to our advantage?

Well, it wouldn't be to YOUR advantage, since he's apparently in your faction. But it would be to the advantage of the other factions. Unless I'm overlooking something.

[hoopsguy]

Brian, I am curious why you chose Cronin as the person to jail. As far as I can tell, he is a member of the most clearly defined faction in the game right now.

[BrianD]

Well, it wouldn't be to YOUR advantage, since he's apparently in your faction. But it would be to the advantage of the other factions. Unless I'm overlooking something.

+.5 points for any person who votes to free a noble who is in jail, if that noble is freed

Seems like other nobles would want this.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - and one of the earliest defined factions based on their clue from Day 1.

[BrianD]

Brian, I am curious why you chose Cronin as the person to jail. As far as I can tell, he is a member of the most clearly defined faction in the game right now.

You are right. I remembered that when Wednesday jumped to his defense. I will need to figure out who to vote for in his place.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Wait ... why do we neccesarily want to FREE bulletsponge? I can understand not executing him, but isn't it to our advantage to leave him in jail for the time being?

Members of his faction, and factions that tolerate his faction, should vote to free him, because it earns them points.

For everyone else, it's a neutral action as far as points are concerned, and basically a neutral action in other respects as well.

If you're not an assassin and really think that he's not an assassin, you're probably better off voting to free him, because you lose nothing if he's not tolerated and you gain if he's tolerated or in your own faction.

[Blade6119]

VOTE FREE BULLETSPONGE

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, actually, I got that wrong. It's a bonus for all nobles to vote to free him if he's a noble, with an additional bonus if he's tolerated or within your own faction.

[BrianD]

So who is worthy of a jailing? I've got about 90 minutes before I am done for the night, so I have to figure out whom to vote for.

[SnDvls]

Please quite posting so new nobles to the game like me can get caught up. I'm almost there now :) thanks

[st.cronin]

Ok, I'm convinced.

VOTE FREE BULLET

[SnDvls]

dola - damn

quit posting not quite

[Mr. Wednesday]

Heck if I know. Maybe the quiet types... e.g. Lathum didn't do anything aside from vote to jail me on day 1... I'm a little skittish about putting too much trust in any one person (especially one who I do not believe to be in my own faction), but I'd be interested in hoops's perspective on the matter.

[SnDvls]

finally caught up...ya me.

[Chief Rum]

I want to see Brian say Bullet is in his faction. I see his action, and a lot of supposition by us, but Brian himself is saying nothing else.

[st.cronin]

I'm still wondering what information Blade gleaned from one of my posts "last night." The last thing I remember wondering about is if bullet would be able to get messages or not. I was anticipating something like what BrianD is doing, and I was curious how we would know if BrianD was on the up and up. I still don't see it.

[Lorena]

I have asked Barkeep to remove me from the game. It's not fair to my teammates if I half-ass read anything posted on here and it seems I have costed them the game. Oh well, I gave it a try and it was fun.

Sorry to have messed it up :(

[hoopsguy]

As of right now, I really don't know who I would vote for.

Qwikshot and Lonestargirl are both affiliated with the "faction tell" that I consider the least likely to be real and neither have posted much up to this point.

I'm obviously a little skittish about people who hit me up with votes yesterday, given that I know I'm not an assassin - that would be Chief Rum, Blade, and WVUFan. Two of those were removed; I don't take Chief not removing the vote as a sign of being more/less likely.

I'm really going to need to try and understand how BrianD knew that Bullet was in his faction. If Bullet was a faction leader I think that others would have been louder yesterday trying to save him. Not asking for that information to be publicly revealed, but if I'm able to figure out the connection it will help me make better votes going forward.

[hoopsguy]

Dodgerchick, maybe you are seeing something that I'm not but I have no idea how you have cost your teammates the game.

You may have put a little bit of a target on them for night kills early on, but I would be surprised if the assassins stay on one team the whole way. It makes it too easy for the other teams to accumulate points if they stay on one team.

[st.cronin]

I have asked Barkeep to remove me from the game. It's not fair to my teammates if I half-ass read anything posted on here and it seems I have costed them the game. Oh well, I gave it a try and it was fun.

Sorry to have messed it up :(

huh?

[Lathum]

I may have missed something but is it possible St, Cronin didn't receive a message because bulltsponge is his faction leader but was jailed?