Historical Nation Draft

[larrymcg421]

Alright, I'll post Noop's pick, but anyone who wants to pick from that category will have to wait until he selects a country.

[Izulde]

Okay I'll post my own pick then after larry posts Noop's.

[larrymcg421]

Noop picks:

7.5 Saladin, Army Chief, Egypt, Pre-20th

[Danny]

Good pick by Noop

[Izulde]

Hell of a pick by Noop there.

[Izulde]

7.6 Mt. Everest - Geographic Location - China - 20th Century

Even today, we consider a difficult task to be like climbing Mount Everest. The highest mountain in the world from sea level to summit, it has inspired and challenged people from all walks of life for decades, but it was not until 1953 that Sir Edmund Hilary and Tenzing Norgay finally attained the summit.

But Everest's challenge has not lessened even with this breakthrough. Every year, more and more people try for new records, either speed or status records in climbing Everest and it still remains arguably the most difficult climb to the summit in the world.

Truly a location worthy of being a nation's most prized geographic wonder.

[Danny]

Nice and with DT, NTN, myself and Galaril all being on frequently, we just need the CW to pick and we'll have a nice run going.

[DaddyTorgo]

who's 7.7? do it do it do ittttttttttttt

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm here, one sec.

[Abe Sargent]

Noop picks:

7.5 Saladin, Army Chief, Pre-20th

I had him as one of my late round ruler/leader guys

[Coffee Warlord]

7.7 Socrates, Justice Minister, Greece, Pre-20th

Needs very little introduction, and his Socratic Method is still used as a technique in law schools today.

[Izulde]

Clever application.

[Abe Sargent]

7.7 Socrates, Justice Minister, Greece, Pre-20th

Needs very little introduction, and his Socratic Method is still used as a technique in law schools today.

I had him as mny backup if Locke was taken...

Awesome

[DaddyTorgo]

nice pick

[DaddyTorgo]

now i'm 2nd guessing my picks...

[Galaril]

Tick-tock- tick- tock:)

[Danny]

Let's go buddy boy!

[Noop]

Noop picks:

7.5 Saladin, Army Chief, Pre-20th

Egypt

[DaddyTorgo]

7.8 Chief Diplomat - Klemens Wenzel, Prince von Metternich, Austria, Pre-20th Century

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry - was across the street getting a coffee

[DaddyTorgo]

i think Metternich is GREAT value at 7.8

[Galaril]

Crap where's NTN?

[Galaril]

i think Metternich is GREAT value at 7.8

Agree, very nice.

[DaddyTorgo]

let's not forget - Kissinger idolized him and wrote his dissertation on Metternich (things you didn't know that you learned from wikipedia are so informative). i was bip-bopping around to make sure I wasn't missing out on any other potential diplomats and so i read the entry on Metternich to prepare my "defense" of him

[Danny]

Didn't know much about him until just now, but looks like a good pick.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm going to ensure that our little globe stays very well balanced and peaceful.

[Danny]

Yay NTN is here

[Galaril]

yeah, I got a meeting to run to in 15 minutes so lets go gents.

[Abe Sargent]

pokes ntn

[DaddyTorgo]

you all are so impatient

[Danny]

Really?

you could just post it so that people can keep going - everybody else may be looking at a different category...

who's 7.7? do it do it do ittttttttttttt

:)

[DaddyTorgo]

lol touche

[Coffee Warlord]

Owned.

[Abe Sargent]

Heheheh

[DaddyTorgo]

i got a couple of doozy picks left...gonna blow people away

[ntndeacon]

I was trying to come up with something.

[DaddyTorgo]

dat's cool ntndeacon

hey wait - since when are you in alabama???

[ntndeacon]

7.9 Great Pryamid at Giza-Man Made Structure-Egypt-pre 20th century

[ntndeacon]

Since 4th grade DT lol

[Danny]

7.10 Isoroku Yamamoto, Air Chief - Japan, Post 20th

The fleet admiral was the commander-in-chief of the Combined Fleet during World War II. He lead Japan's naval and air units and organized and commanded the attack on Pearl Harbor.

[ntndeacon]

a couple of points my air chief's name is Santos-Dumont, not Santos, Dumont.
Also... Burma is now called Myanmar

[DaddyTorgo]

lol aaah okay i didn't realize that

pyramid...nice. i was considering it - it was on my "manmade" list until i decided to go in another direction

[DaddyTorgo]

7.10 Isoroku Yamamoto, Air Chief - Japan, Post 20th

The fleet admiral was the was the commander-in-chief of the Combined Fleet during World War II. He lead Japan's naval and air units and organized and commanded the attack on Pearl Harbor.

figured someone would be all over that sooner or later

[Abe Sargent]

7.10 Isoroku Yamamoto, Air Chief - Japan, Post 20th

The fleet admiral was the was the commander-in-chief of the Combined Fleet during World War II. He lead Japan's naval and air units and organized and commanded the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Yup

[Coffee Warlord]

figured someone would be all over that sooner or later

Yeah, I strongly considering going that route myself.

[Lathum]

I almost took pyramids but went great wall instead

[Abe Sargent]

Galaril, the Lathumx2 then Galaril, then Danny, then ntndeacon - all here. Knock em out guys!

[Abe Sargent]

Hey DT and CW are here too, you =coul dfinish this round and take out the first half of the next round in lik e10 minutes

[DaddyTorgo]

I almost took pyramids but went great wall instead

which i hate you for - otherwise i was totally going 3 Gorges :rant:

[Galaril]

7.11 mikhail gorbachev, Diplomat - Russia(USSR), Post 20th

[Abe Sargent]

7.11 mikhail gorbachev, Diplomat - Russia(USSR), Post 20th

I totally thought he would have been a better choice than Stalin for ruler/leader of Russia from 20th century, but oh well, good value here.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaaah gorby!!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

I totally thought he would have been a better choice than Stalin for ruler/leader of Russia from 20th century, but oh well, good value here.


100% agree

[larrymcg421]

Lathum seems to have left. I have picks from him, though.

[larrymcg421]

And Lathum closes out the halfway mark of the draft with:

7.12 - Mao Zedung, Leader/Ruler, China, 20th

[larrymcg421]

And he starts the 2nd half with:

8.1 - Roger Bannister, Athlete, United Kingdom, 20th

[Coffee Warlord]

Dammit. Another one I was about to snag. (Mao)

[DaddyTorgo]

the chairman! *whack*

[Abe Sargent]

Dammit. Another one I was about to snag. (Mao)

I had Qin Shi Huang on my short list of rulers/leaders, so it blocks me there

[Galaril]

8.2 - Statue of Liberty, Manmade Structure, USA, Pre-20th

[Abe Sargent]

He was taken already

[Noop]

8.2 - Pele, Athlete, Brazil, 20th

I think this is about where I expected him to still be but not for much no longer. I actually toyed with the notion of him as a Diplomat leader(briefly).

He is taken by me earlier.

[ntndeacon]

several rounds ago

[DaddyTorgo]

taken by noop!

lol

[Galaril]

taken by noop!

lol

That explains my good fortune missed it. No worries.

[larrymcg421]

Noop already got Pele.

[Galaril]

OK changed it above to Statue of Liberty
.

[Coffee Warlord]

God, I don't have a freakin' CLUE who to pick at this point.

[ntndeacon]

got a couple Ideas

[Abe Sargent]

Me too!

[Coffee Warlord]

My problem is, I need a post-20th for one of two categories, and I'm drawing total blanks.

[Abe Sargent]

Make one up!

[ntndeacon]

I understand that, as I see the best in several categories being pre 20th century myself

[Danny]

8.3 - Wayne Gretzky, Athlete, Canada, Post 20th century

The Great One, maybe the greatest athlete ever in a team spot

[Abe Sargent]

Solid choice

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm torn between 2 options for my pick...

[Danny]

I passed on a couple other picks in other categories as I felt they were more likely to fall with so few athletes taken and american only being able to be used once. Hopefully they are still there for me next round.

[ntndeacon]

one of my choices!

[ntndeacon]

I was thinking along those same lines.,, so
8.4 Diego Maradona-Athlete-Argentina-20th century

[ntndeacon]

there was actually another Canadian sports figure I was thinking of too, the problem was he wasn't technically an athlete. But Iwanted to go with James Naismith as a Canadian

[DaddyTorgo]

aaargh it's me now and i'm torn

[Danny]

Maradona is solid too

[Abe Sargent]

there was actually another Canadian sports figure I was thinking of too, the problem was he wasn't technically an athlete.

Ben Johnson?

[DaddyTorgo]

hahaha

[DaddyTorgo]

8.5 Martin Luther, Religious Leader, Germany, Pre-20th Century

He changed the course of Western Civilization by initiating the Protestant Reformation (and in turn the Catholic Counter Reformation that made the modern church what it is today).

[Abe Sargent]

I think that's a really good choice this late

[Coffee Warlord]

Thinking.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well thanks Mr. Abe!

[Coffee Warlord]

8.6 Yasser Arafat, Diplomat, Egypt, 20th

Certainly a polarizing figuring in recent history, and not without his thorns, but a skillful diplomatic leader and tactician nonetheless, and successfully negotiated a peace with Israel after eons of fighting, winning him the Nobel Peace Price.

[DaddyTorgo]

nice one CW. no more polarizing than hitler or stalin

[Coffee Warlord]

I REALLY don't even like picking him, 'cause, well, he's an ass, but he was a conniving, manipulative ass who knew how to move political pieces around.

[ntndeacon]

Ben Johnson?

no but that was funny. iwas thinking James Naismith.

[Barkeep49]

a couple of points my air chief's name is Santos-Dumont, not Santos, Dumont.
Also... Burma is now called Myanmar

That's disputed. And calling it Myanmar with the pick I was making seemed wrong. I probably should have left it as Burma/Myanmar, but I didn't want to confuse people who didn't know they were the same palce.

[Barkeep49]

8.5 Martin Luther, Religious Leader, Germany, Pre-20th Century

He changed the course of Western Civilization by initiating the Protestant Reformation (and in turn the Catholic Counter Reformation that made the modern church what it is today).
I almost picked him as my Civil Rights person. Very good pick.

[ntndeacon]

oh ok. I did not realize it was disputed. It was still a fantastic pick regardless.

[DaddyTorgo]

I almost picked him as my Civil Rights person. Very good pick.

:D

[Galaril]

8.5 Martin Luther, Religious Leader, Germany, Pre-20th Century

He changed the course of Western Civilization by initiating the Protestant Reformation (and in turn the Catholic Counter Reformation that made the modern church what it is today).

Shoot I totally forgot about him. Wow great value this late.

[Izulde]

I didn't forget him, but I was tapped out on Germans.

Is it my turn?

[Abe Sargent]

Yup

[Izulde]

8.7 Rodrigo "El Cid" Diaz de Vivar - Military Chief - Spain - Pre-20th Century

The national hero of Spain and one of the greatest commanders in world history. Made legendary in The Song of the Cid, his brilliant tactical strategies proved instrumental in the Reconquista, including the liberation of Valencia, which he then ruled de facto independently.

[Abe Sargent]

It's pick 8.7 btw

[Abe Sargent]

100% agree

To be fair, there is one really, really rgeat reason to have taken Stalin over Gorby.

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He'll save us from the Martians!

[sabotai]

I almost picked him as my Civil Rights person. Very good pick.

Not sure picking someone who wrote a book called "On Jews And Their Lies" would have been a good Civil Rights pick.

[DaddyTorgo]

Not sure picking someone who wrote a book called "On Jews And Their Lies" would have been a good Civil Rights pick.

it was 100% because of the religious aspect of things and not the racial though. he was concerned that they wouldn't be saved

[Abe Sargent]

I woke up just now and rushed here, fearing that I had been on the clock for a while, holding everything up, but that fear appears to have been misplaced

[Galaril]

I woke up just now and rushed here, fearing that I had been on the clock for a while, holding everything up, but that fear appears to have been misplaced

Yeah, me too. I guess this is how we all pass the time at a paid jobs:)

[DaddyTorgo]

lol nope

[Abe Sargent]

Damnd, Noop was actually here 30 minutes ago too.

[Danny]

Did someone PM him?

[Noop]

It's my pick?

[Abe Sargent]

To be fair, there is one really, really rgeat reason to have taken Stalin over Gorby.

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He'll save us from the Martians!


Here's another for those who prefer rock over techno

[Noop]

8.8 Saint Augustine - Religious Leader - Algeria- Pre20th Century

I want to put Italy instead of Algeria(I copied the wrong word and pasted real quick) but I don't want anyone to cry foul. So I will wait until Larry allows me to change it.

[Abe Sargent]

What country?

[Abe Sargent]

Huh, you know I never knew he was from Algeria until now.

[Noop]

Hmm I copied the wrong thing but I don't want anyone to cry foul.

[Barkeep49]

8.9 Yi Sun-sin Naval Chief Korea Pre-20th

His ability to hold off the superior Japanese forces is legendary.

[Abe Sargent]

8.10 Sigmund Freud, Scientist, Austria, 20th

[Surtt]

8.11 Vincent van Gogh, Artist, Netherlands, Pre-20th

[Galaril]

8.9 Yi Sun-sin Naval Chief Korea Pre-20th

His ability to hold off the superior Japanese forces is legendary.

I am impressed some one else other than me actually knew how great this guy was. In korea he is a legend like Washington here.

[Abe Sargent]

Yay, Apathetic Lurker is here!

[Apathetic Lurker]

So it seems its my double yet again...

Karl Doenitz Naval Germany 20th...subs subs subs..... who better and what better to protect our shiny next pick,
British Isles..geographical england 20th century

[Barkeep49]

I am impressed some one else other than me actually knew how great this guy was. In korea he is a legend like Washington here.
I will admit that I didn't before the start of this draft. But as I did my research his name always came up, and often as the best. I feel to have the possible best pick in a category, at the end of the 8th round, is worth the tradeoff in the lack of name recognition.

[Apathetic Lurker]

oops..that was my old set...oh well. I wont moan too much

[Galaril]

I will admit that I didn't before the start of this draft. But as I did my research his name always came up, and often as the best. I feel to have the possible best pick in a category, at the end of the 8th round, is worth the tradeoff in the lack of name recognition.

Yes, his name is often brought up as a asian comparison to Britain's Admiral Nelson so he sure is worthy of the pick.

[Surtt]

9.2 Panama Canal, Man made Structure, Panama, Post-20th

[Abe Sargent]

9.3 Miyamoto Musashi, Athelete, Japan, Pre20th

I had this guy targeted for this pick for a while. He is the perfect complement to Alexander the Great. I have a general who never lost a battle and a warrior who never lost a battle. The greatest warrior of all time.

[Danny]

8.9 Yi Sun-sin Naval Chief Korea Pre-20th

His ability to hold off the superior Japanese forces is legendary.

Great pick, he is who I was targetting for that spot.

[Coffee Warlord]

If it gets to me, I'll be around later this evening.

[Abe Sargent]

BK was here but then he left. :(

[Danny]

Did you send him a PM?

[Barkeep49]

Sorry. I thought we were moving away from me. Pick shortly.

[DaddyTorgo]

So it seems its my double yet again...

Karl Doenitz Naval Germany 20th...subs subs subs..... who better and what better to protect our shiny next pick,
British Isles..geographical england 20th century

fuck you...i was going to take Tirpitz with my next pick - now i'll have to go to my backup naval chief :rant:

[DaddyTorgo]

9.2 Panama Canal, Man made Structure, Panama, Post-20th

fuck you also - this was also on my list to take next

[Barkeep49]

Ok. This kind of messes with my division of 20th and Pre-20th and I had planned on picking some modern despot in this category. But I can't stand to see my back-up Lawmaker sit on the board any longer, when I think he'd be such an excellent ruler.

9.4 Sulieman the Magnificent Turkey Ruler/Leader Pre-20th Century
He led the Ottomans to their greatest heights and it was no coincidence.

[Apathetic Lurker]

fuck you...i was going to take Tirpitz with my next pick - now i'll have to go to my backup naval chief :rant:

Who? the grand admiral of Paraguay's navy?

[DaddyTorgo]

Oh no...I've got a solid backup. Otherwise I would have taken Tirpitz earlier. Actually I have a couple solid backups.

[Abe Sargent]

Ok. This kind of messes with my division of 20th and Pre-20th and I had planned on picking some modern despot in this category. But I can't stand to see my back-up Lawmaker sit on the board any longer, when I think he'd be such an excellent ruler.

9.4 Sulieman the Magnificent Turkey Ruler/Leader Pre-20th Century
He led the Ottomans to their greatest heights and it was no coincidence.

You blocked another Ruler/Leader I had ready. Heh

[Danny]

Noops is up right?

[Abe Sargent]

Aye

[Noop]

9.5 - Xiao Gang - Economist - China - 20th Century

[Barkeep49]

You blocked another Ruler/Leader I had ready. Heh
Darn. Knowing who you're talking about I didn't think of him until this post and I wish I had since he would have solved my 20th Century dilemma.

[larrymcg421]

9.5 - Andrew Carnegie - Economist - Scotland - 20th Century


Scotland is part of UK, which has already been picked in that cat.

[Noop]

Scotland is part of UK, which has already been picked in that cat.

Yeah I just saw that you didn't let David Hume stand because I was going to argue I can use Andrew Carnegie here but I will change. What about my Saint Augustine pick? Can I change it to Italy?

[Noop]

Andrew Carnegie built a library in New Zealand can I use that as a country instead? He does have a connection there...

[Noop]

I am heading out in about 30 mins so if I can get a quick reply...

[Abe Sargent]

Darn. Knowing who you're talking about I didn't think of him until this post and I wish I had since he would have solved my 20th Century dilemma.

Way life goes

[larrymcg421]

I've made a ruling on a pick that hasn't been made yet that covers some of the same ground. I approved that pick, but not this one. I'm just mentioning that so we don't have a big stink when the pick is made.

The library isn't enough to claim a connection, I'm afraid. If it was like the main thing he was known for (see: Hitchcock's US films), then I could let it go, but otherwise, any businessman could be selected for doing anything in another country.

[Abe Sargent]

Off to dinner

[Noop]

Changed.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Yay, Apathetic Lurker is here!

Finally, after 10 years here, someone is happy to see me show up...lol

Oh..and my first "fuck you"..hehe

[Coffee Warlord]

Izulde, then me, correct?

[Galaril]

Yes.

[Izulde]

Just got in, but I need to head out for a bit and then be back.

[Izulde]

Edit: Ineligible pick

[Surtt]

9.6 Golden Gate Bridge - Man-made Structure - United States - 20th Century

An international symbol still today, it ranks as one of the Seven Modern Wonders of the World by the American Societyit of Civil Engineers. Not only is it an icon, but it serves the practical purpose of connecting a city to an island. Implicit in its presence is that this new nation of ours has at least one considerable waterway, which will be important for transport and more fertile land to grow food on.

8.2 - Statue of Liberty, Manmade Structure, USA, Pre-20th

[Izulde]

8.2 - Statue of Liberty, Manmade Structure, USA, Pre-20th

Argh, sorry. Missed that. *goes back to drawing board*

[Izulde]

9.6 - Satoru Iwata - Economist - Japan - 20th Century

After the seeming collapse of Nintendo as a legitimate heavyweight in the television video game console market after the debacles with the N64 and the Gamecube, Iwata led Nintendo back to the forefront, riding this generation's hottest system, the Wii, which has proceeded to smash untold numbers of records.

Named one of Barron's top CEOs, his brilliance in understanding the economic climate and leading a storied company back to headliner prominence is an amazing accomplishment. Now he moves on from restoring Nintendo's luster to chartering the financial future for our nation.

[Coffee Warlord]

9.7 Henry Morgan, Navy Chief, Jamaica, Pre-20th

One of the most notorious and successful privateers in the Carribbean, Morgan spent the bulk of his time operating out of Port Royale (where he was Governor for a time), carving up the Spanish Main.

He, unlike most pirates, actually retired very much alive.

[Coffee Warlord]

Take that, whoever blocked the British Navy. :)

[Surtt]

9.7 Henry Morgan, Navy Chief, Jamaica, Pre-20th

One of the most notorious and successful privateers in the Carribbean, Morgan spent the bulk of his time operating out of Port Royale (where he was Governor for a time), carving up the Spanish Main.

He, unlike most pirates, actually retired very much alive.



GAH!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

not sure if we're stalled on me or not...if so I apologize. been dealing with computer problems all night - trying to get it all backed up so I can send it in for service on monday but everytime I go to create a disc image it starts taking forever n freezing

[Galaril]

not sure if we're stalled on me or not...if so I apologize. been dealing with computer problems all night - trying to get it all backed up so I can send it in for service on monday but everytime I go to create a disc image it starts taking forever n freezing

No worries. I think you are up since Coffee went last.

[DaddyTorgo]

not sure what pick # I am in this round (on my phone right now), but don't want to hold this up any longer

9.8 - Themistocles, Naval Chief, Greece, Pre-20th century

[Galaril]

Who's up?

[Abe Sargent]

Wondering if someone was going to take Themistocles

[DaddyTorgo]

yep. he was 1/1a with Tirpitz. figured it'd be hard to pass by the guy who essentially won the naval battle that enabled the rise of Western civilization though

[DaddyTorgo]

and FYI - if I've got to pick later in the day I'll have to do it from my phone, i'm about to wipe my HD's and get this laptop ready to send in to HP for service tomorrow morning

so i'd appreciate it if the person before me sent me a PM just so that pops up so that otherwise i can ignore the thread till tomorrow morning at work

[ntndeacon]

9.9 Niels Bohr-Scientist-Denmark-20th century

[Danny]

9.10 Friedrich Hayek, Economist - Austria, 20th century

[Abe Sargent]

Nice, two pikcs, boom boom

[Galaril]

9.10 Friedrich Hayek, Economist - Austria, 20th century

DAMN, THAT WAS MY NEXT PICK:(

[Galaril]

9.11 Peter I The Great, Naval Commander-Russia, pre-20th century

"The father of the Russian Navy"

[Danny]

Wow, glad I took him over the pick I was planning for 10.3, wasn't sure which I should take first, but thought Hayek was the better choice to take first

[Abe Sargent]

Lathu m is around in the WW right now, so hopefully he'll pop on over in the next few

[Lathum]

gimme a few

[Abe Sargent]

See?

[Lathum]

9.12-Geographical Location -Great Barrier Reef- Australia- 20th Century

[Lathum]

10.1- Religous Leader- Joseph Smith- Pre 20th Century Founder of the Mormons

[Galaril]

10.2 Saint Patrick, Religious Leader - Ireland(UK), Pre-20th century

[Danny]

10.3 Michiel de Ruyter, Naval Commander - Netherlands, Pre-20th Century

[Abe Sargent]

I like de Ruyter

[Abe Sargent]

Boom, Boom ,Boom. The picks fall!

[Danny]

Thanks, he was next on my list after BK's pick. I was happy to see him last even with the run on naval commanders.

[Abe Sargent]

larry, i know there is some work involved, but I would love to see the first post updated when you get a chance. Thanks!

[Abe Sargent]

Tell, you what, in order to be helpful, I'll get the picks updated, and you can cut and paste it, and do the rest.

[Abe Sargent]

Draft Order

Round 1

1. Apathetic Lurker - Sun Tzu, Army Chief, China, Pre-20th
2. surtt - Julius Cesar, Leader/Ruler, Italy, pre-20th
3. Abe Sargent - Alexander the Great, Army Chief, Greece, pre-20th
4. Barkeep49 - Adam Smith, Economist, Great Britain, Pre-20th
5. Noop - Oil Fields of Saudi Arabia, Geographical Location, Saudi Arabia, Pre-20th
6. Izulde - Manfred "The Red Baron" von Richthofen, Air Chief, Germany, 20th Century
7. Coffee Warlord - Jesus Christ, Religious Leader, Israel, Pre-20th
8. DaddyTorgo - Martin Luther King Jr., Civil Rights Activist, USA, 20th Century
9. ntndeacon - Horatio Nelson, Navy Chief, Great Britain, pre-20th century
10. Danny - Muhammad, Religious Leader, Saudi Arabia, pre-20th
11. Galaril - Abraham Lincoln, Leader/Ruler, United States, Pre-20th
12. Lathum - Nelson Mandela, Civil Rights, South Africa, 20th

Round 2

1. Lathum - Leonardo Da Vinci, Artist, Italy, pre-20th
2. Galaril - Dwight D. Eisenhower, Army Chief, United States, 20th
3. Danny - Mahatma Ghandi, Civil Rights Leader, India, 20th
4. ntndeacon - Karl Marx, Economist, Germany, pre-20th
5. DaddyTorgo - John Kenneth Galbraith, Economist, United States, 20th
6. Coffee Warlord - Albert Einstein, Scientist, Germany, 20th
7. Izulde - Jim Brown, Athlete, United States, 20th
8. Noop - King Solomon, Justice Minister, Israel, Pre-20th
9. Barkeep49 - John Glenn, Air Chief, United States, 20th
10. Abe Sargent - Marco Polo, Chief Diplomat, Italy, Pre-20th
11. surtt - Napoleon Bonaparte, Army Chief, France, pre-20th
12. Apathetic Lurker - Josef Stalin, Leader/Ruler, Russia, 20th

Round 3

1. Apathetic Lurker - Sir Arthur Harris, Air Chief, Great Britain, 20th
2. surtt - Dalai Lama, Religious Leader, China, Post-20th
3. Abe Sargent - Siddhartha Buddha, India, Religious Leader, Pre20th
4. Barkeep49 - Ghengis Khan, Millitary Leader, Mongolia, Pre-20th
5. Noop - Imhotep, Scientist, Egypt, Pre-20th
6. Izulde - Otto von Bismarck, Chief Diplomat, Germany, Pre-20th Century
7. Coffee Warlord - William Shakespeare, Artist, England, Pre 20th
8. DaddyTorgo - John Marshall, Justice Minister, American, Pre-20th Century
9. ntndeacon - Theodore Roosevelt, Chief Diplomat, United States, 20th century
10. Danny - Aristotle, Scientist, Greece, Pre-20th
11. Galaril - Ben Franklin, Scientist - America, Pre 20th Century
12. Lathum - John Paul Jones, Naval Chief, United States, Pre-20th century

Round 4

1. Lathum - William Wallace, Army Chief, Great Britain, Pre-20th
2. Galaril - John Stuart Mills, Civil Rights Leader, Great Britain, Pre-20th
3. Danny - Adolph Hitler, Leader/Ruler - Germany, 20th century
4. ntndeacon - Tobias Michael Carel Asser, Justice Minister, The Netherlands, 20th century
5. DaddyTorgo - Isaac Newton, Scientist, United Kingdom, Pre-20th Century
6. Coffee Warlord - Charlemagne, Leader/Ruler, France, Pre-20th
7. Izulde - Hammurabi, Justice Minister, Iraq, Pre-20th Century
8. Noop - Pele, Athlete, Brazil, 20th Century
9. Barkeep49 - Moses, Justice Minister, Egypt, Pre-20th
10. Abe Sargent - Mother Theresa, Civil Rights Activist, Albania, 20th
11. surtt - Louis Pasteur, Scientist, France, Pre-20th
12. Apathetic Lurker - Ibn Khaldoun, Economist, Tunisia, Pre-20th century

Round 5

1. Apathetic Lurker - Simon Bolivar, Civil Rights, Venezuela, Pre-20th Century
2. surtt - Sir Winston Churchill, Diplomat, UK, Post-20
3. Abe Sargent - Tōgō Heihachirō, Japan, Navy Chief, 20th
4. Barkeep49 - Marie Curie, Poland, Scientist, 20th Century
5. Noop - King David, Leader, Israel, Pre-20th Century
6. Izulde - Confucius, Civil Rights Leader, China, Pre-20th Century
7. Coffee Warlord - Erwin Rommel, Army Leader, Germany, Post 20th
8. DaddyTorgo - Mordechai Hod, Air Force Leader, Israel, 20th Century
9. ntndeacon - Attilla the Hun, Army Chief, Hungary, pre-20th century
10. Danny - Pope John Paul II, Chief Diplomat, Poland, 20th century
11. Galaril - Darius the Great, Iran , Justice Minister, Pre 20th century
12. Lathum - Great Wall of China, Manmade structure, China, pre-20th

Round 6

1. Lathum - Yuri Gagarin, Air Chief, Russia, 20th
2. Galaril - Pablo Picasso, Artist, Spain 20th
3. Danny - Alfred Hitchcock, Artist, United States, 20th century
4. ntndeacon - Alberto Santos, Dumont, Air Chief, Brazil, 20th century
5. DaddyTorgo - Geographical Location - Fertile Crescent, Iraq, Pre-20th Century
6. Coffee Warlord - Anthony Fokker, Air Chief, Netherlands, 20th Century
7. Izulde - Galileo Galilei - Scientist - Italy - Pre-20th Century
8. Noop - James Joyce, Artist, Ireland, 20th Century
9. Barkeep49 - Tallyrand, Diplomat, France, Pre-20th Century
10. Abe Sargent - John Locke, Justice Minister, UK, Pre20th
11. surtt - Lech Walesa, Civil Rights Activist, Poland, 20th Century
12. Apathetic Lurker - En Hedu' Anna, Artist, Iraq, pre-20th century

Round 7

1. Apathetic Lurker - Ibn al-haytham, Scientist, Iraq, Pre-20th century
2. surtt - Billy Bishop, Air Chief, Canada, 20th Century
3. Abe Sargent - Sergey Korolyov, Air Chief, Ukraine, 20th
4. Barkeep49 - Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Civil Rights Activist, Burma, 20th Century
5. Noop - Saladin, Army Chief, Egypt, Pre-20th
6. Izulde - Mt. Everest, Geographic Location, China, 20th Century
7. Coffee Warlord - Socrates, Justice Minister, Greece, Pre-20th
8. DaddyTorgo - Klemens Wenzel, Prince von Metternich, Chief Diplomat Austria, Pre-20th Century
9. ntndeacon - Great Pryamid at Giza-Man Made Structure, Egypt, pre 20th century
10. Danny - Isoroku Yamamoto, Air Chief, Japan, 20th
11. Galaril - Mikhail Gorbachev, Diplomat, Russia, 20th
12. Lathum - Mao Zedung, Leader/Ruler, China, 20th


Round 8

1. Lathum - Roger Bannister, Athlete, United Kingdom, 20th
2. Galaril - Statue of Liberty, Manmade Structure, USA, Pre-20th
3. Danny - Wayne Gretzky, Athlete, Canada, Post 20th century
4. ntndeacon - Diego Maradona-Athlete-Argentina-20th century
5. DaddyTorgo - Martin Luther, Religious Leader, Germany, Pre-20th Century
6. Coffee Warlord - Yasser Arafat, Diplomat, Egypt, 20th
7. Izulde - Rodrigo "El Cid" Diaz de Vivar - Military Chief - Spain - Pre-20th Century
8. Noop - Saint Augustine - Religious Leader - Algeria- Pre20th Century
9. Barkeep - Yi Sun-sin Naval Chief Korea Pre-20th
10. Abe - Sigmund Freud, Scientist, Austria, 20th
11. Surtt - Vincent van Gogh, Artist, Netherlands, Pre-20th
12. Apathetic Lurker - Karl Doenitz, Naval Chief, Germany 20th


Round 9


1. Apathetic Lurker - British Isles, Geographic Location, UK, 20th
2. Surtt - Panama Canal, Man made Structure, Panama, Post-20th
3. Abe - Miyamoto Musashi, Athelete, Japan, Pre20th
4. Barkeep - Sulieman the Magnificent Turkey Ruler/Leader Pre-20th Century
5. Noop - Xiao Gang - Economist - China - 20th Century
6. Izulde - Satoru Iwata - Economist - Japan - 20th Century
7. Coffee Warlord - Henry Morgan, Navy Chief, Jamaica, Pre-20th
8. DaddyTorgo - Themistocles, Naval Chief, Greece, Pre-20th century
9. ntndeacon - Niels Bohr-Scientist-Denmark-20th century
10. Danny - Friedrich Hayek, Economist - Austria, 20th century
11. Galaril - Peter I The Great, Naval Commander-Russia, pre-20th century
12. Lathum - Great Barrier Reef, Geographical Location, Australia- 20th Century


Round 10

1. Lathum - Religous Leader- Joseph Smith- Pre 20th Century, USA?
2. Galaril - Saint Patrick, Religious Leader - Ireland(UK), Pre-20th century
3. Danny - Michiel de Ruyter, Naval Commander - Netherlands, Pre-20th Century
4. ntndeacon - Chi'ang Kai-shek --- Leader/Ruler---Taiwan---20th Century



There we are, all up to date.


Lathum didn;t choose a country for Smith

[DaddyTorgo]

maybe he meant to pick whackoville?

[ntndeacon]

I am sorry about this but I have a problem with Puerto Rico being considered a separate country.

[Abe Sargent]

Agreed

[Abe Sargent]

I totally missed it, but you are right.

[DaddyTorgo]

agreed

[Barkeep49]

I am sorry about this but I have a problem with Puerto Rico being considered a separate country.
They do compete separately at the Olympics.

[Alan T]

I am sorry about this but I have a problem with Puerto Rico being considered a separate country.


Yep, if Scotland can't be considered a country, doesn't seem like Puerto Rico should be able to be either.

[larrymcg421]

Sorry, but Puerto Rico is United States and cannot be used as a separate country.

Thanks for the updated draft list. Been a little busy today, but I'll try to get a full update on the first page tonight.

[Danny]

BTW, don't know if anyone noticed yet, but I have yet to pick any two people from the same country. I am going diverse!

[Galaril]

Sorry, but Puerto Rico is United States and cannot be used as a separate country.

Thanks for the updated draft list. Been a little busy today, but I'll try to get a full update on the first page tonight.

Wow, I am getting old Puerto Rico is part of the States and Pluto isn't a planet anymore;( I chnaged it to St.Pat, religious leader.

[Lathum]

smith should be in the US. And I agree, Puerto Rico is in the US. IMO the olympic argument doesn't fly since baseball isn't an olympic sport.

[ntndeacon]

10.4 Chi'ang Kai-shek --- Leader/Ruler---Taiwan---20th Century

[DaddyTorgo]

10.4 Chi'ang Kai-shek --- Leader/Ruler---Taiwan---20th Century interesting pick

[ntndeacon]

yea I figured I needed a 20th century leader. And I was going back and forth over 2 of them.

[Abe Sargent]

Draft recap has been updated with patrick and ntndeacon's pick

[DaddyTorgo]

oh wait - is 10.5 me? LOL

[DaddyTorgo]

damn snake-thing confuses me everytime

[Noop]

damn snake-thing confuses me everytime

http://www.wiiwii.tv/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/a-snake.jpg

Snake: Metal Gear.....

[DaddyTorgo]

fuck - i just had a couple of things road-blocked...bear with me

[DaddyTorgo]

forgot that surtt had taken churchill as a diplomat, was all set to make that my pick for ruler *sigh*

[DaddyTorgo]

okay - after much consideration and making of lists and all

10.5 Jawaharlal Nehru, Ruler/Leader, India, 20th Century

[Greyroofoo]

who?

[Abe Sargent]

Well Izulde, that leaves just me and you for leaders. Everyone else has dipped into the leader pot.

[DaddyTorgo]

who?

Jawaharlal Nehru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawaharlal_Nehru)

i thought long and hard about it because i worried that would be the reaction. I needed a 20th century ruler so that I have some freedom in my remaining picks, and it really boiled down to a few choices. I could have taken somebody along the lines of a hitler or something (not naming names) but i didn't want to have to deal with the PR-flack of that.

Nehru was the first prime minister of independent India. He was the political heir of Ghandi, very well-regarded on the international stage. Very educated as well.

And hey, the guy was ruler of a country with like 1/5 of the world's population, so you know he can do the job.

[Abe Sargent]

I think there were better 20th century choices on the board, but I'm I'm going pre-20th I suspect.

[DaddyTorgo]

there might have been some, but a lot of the ones i looked at had "negative-PR" or were cock-blocked. maybe i just have a soft spot in my heart for nehru...idk

[Abe Sargent]

In all of history, we learn the rulers the most. We know the rulers the best. Down the ranks of history, each of us could name hundreds, perhaps a thousand different rules and leaders. If you are not walking away from this draft with a big name at ruler/leader, no matter where you pick, or what round you use, I think that's a missed opportunity.

[Coffee Warlord]

10.6 Henri Dunant, Civil Rights Leader, Switzerland, 20th Century

His work led to the foundation of the International Red Cross, as well as the first Geneva Convention. Later in life, he became active in women's rights, and received the first ever Nobel Peace prize in 1901.

[DaddyTorgo]

In all of history, we learn the rulers the most. We know the rulers the best. Down the ranks of history, each of us could name hundreds, perhaps a thousand different rules and leaders. If you are not walking away from this draft with a big name at ruler/leader, no matter where you pick, or what round you use, I think that's a missed opportunity.

And I think you can make the argument that Nehru is a big name at Ruler/Leader. Certainly ask any of the Indian members of the board...or any Indian in the world. He doesn't fit into the typical Western-world view, but that was a result of not feeling that there were a lot of those left at this point (the major countries had been blocked, and as i said, i want to go 20th century so that I was able to finish out my draft strategy). I won't name the other people still out there who i considered but didn't take at this point, but they all had blemishes.

[ntndeacon]

10.6 Henri Dunant, Civil Rights Leader, Switzerland, 20th Century

His work led to the foundation of the International Red Cross, as well as the first Geneva Convention. Later in life, he became active in women's rights, and received the first ever Nobel Peace prize in 1901.

nice pick. one Iwas thinknig about for my Civil rights pick.

[DaddyTorgo]

Not my fault if the voters don't recognize the critical importance of Nehru to Indian independence and then the postwar period.

1. First and longest-serving PM of India
2. One of the founders of the Non-aligned movement in the postwar period
3. Ghandi's protegee and political successor
4. Liberal. Concerned for poor and underpriveleged, pushed through a series of reforms that led to the foundation of "Modern India."
5. Father of Indiri and grandfather of Rajiv Ghandi.

[DaddyTorgo]

I could have gone with a despot and an absolute ruler, but this pick was about who i want running my nation, and I can't say i want ohhh...Mussolini or his equivalent. It also gets e me a 20th century ruler where there are not that good choices left (and fewer still without negative-PR).

[larrymcg421]

In DT's defense, I think what makes this draft great, and different in nature to the previous historical draft, is we are not just looking for big names, but people who would be great at these positions. Now many times those two will go hand in hand, but not always. For example, I don't think anyone would say Mordechai Hod is a big name, but he's certainly a great choice for that spot.

Of course, it is up to DT, and anyone picking a non-big name to make their case for the voters.

[DaddyTorgo]

In DT's defense, I think what makes this draft great, and different in nature to the previous historical draft, is we are not just looking for big names, but people who would be great at these positions. Now many times those two will go hand in hand, but not always. For example, I don't think anyone would say Mordechai Hod is a big name, but he's certainly a great choice for that spot.

Of course, it is up to DT, and anyone picking a non-big name to make their case for the voters.

Exactly. If I was going "big name" then there are a bunch of people in third world countries i would have picked over nehru, but i wouldn't want any of them running my country over nehru, because most of them are dictators. and if i'm going to have a dictator running my country then why have a justice minister, or an army chief or anything?

Nehru was a statesman, a patriot, and a nation builder. He helped to bring together a very fragmented society in India and unite them, and created the modern India that is so successful that it is taking all of our jobs away. You may not recognize his name, but you can't knock his accomplishments. Particularly as a "head of state."

[Abe Sargent]

And I think you can make the argument that Nehru is a big name at Ruler/Leader. Certainly ask any of the Indian members of the board...or any Indian in the world. He doesn't fit into the typical Western-world view, but that was a result of not feeling that there were a lot of those left at this point (the major countries had been blocked, and as i said, i want to go 20th century so that I was able to finish out my draft strategy). I won't name the other people still out there who i considered but didn't take at this point, but they all had blemishes.

As someone with a very prolific Asian cast on my team so far, you should realize that I do not endorse the necessarily Western view of things. However, there is a reason many don;t know of Nehru. In today's day and age there are a bunch of countries, and many of those have had good leaders in the past 110 years. Only the truly great ones are the ones people know. Does Nehru suck? Nope. In real life, he'd be a fine leader. He was a good guy. But he's not a sexy pick, and I think there are a ton of sexy picks at the Ruler/Leader level, that's all.

[Izulde]

Nehru was controversial like Ghandi. And oh, it's my pick? Hmmm, okay let me look.

[DaddyTorgo]

As someone with a very prolific Asian cast on my team so far, you should realize that I do not endorse the necessarily Western view of things. However, there is a reason many don;t know of Nehru. In today's day and age there are a bunch of countries, and many of those have had good leaders in the past 110 years. Only the truly great ones are the ones people know. Does Nehru suck? Nope. In real life, he'd be a fine leader. He was a good guy. But he's not a sexy pick, and I think there are a ton of sexy picks at the Ruler/Leader level, that's all.

I'm not so sure there are a ton of "sexy picks" left that don't also carry the tag of "this guy was a despot". Look at the countries that have been taken already - it covers the major world powers. You could certainly argue that there have been some good leaders in some smaller countries, but I'd argue that none of them have accomplished as much with the stakes as high as Nehru. Russia & China & USA have been covered, as has Western Europe, and frankly I don't see any sexier names in Eastern Europe, and definately not in Africa or South America that don't carry the baggage of negative PR. I actually did have at least two other 20th century thoughts - one of them I discounted as being too reactionary and "blah" and the other I discounted for being more of an army leader and less of a statesman.

I want a statesman as my ruler. And Nehru is just that.

[Abe Sargent]

I'm not so sure there are a ton of "sexy picks" left that don't also carry the tag of "this guy was a despot". Look at the countries that have been taken already - it covers the major world powers. You could certainly argue that there have been some good leaders in some smaller countries, but I'd argue that none of them have accomplished as much with the stakes as high as Nehru. Russia & China & USA have been covered, as has Western Europe, and frankly I don't see any sexier names in Eastern Europe, and definately not in Africa or South America that don't carry the baggage of negative PR. I actually did have at least two other 20th century thoughts - one of them I discounted as being too reactionary and "blah" and the other I discounted for being more of an army leader and less of a statesman.

I want a statesman as my ruler. And Nehru is just that.

I can send you a pm with one name if you want. Just one name.

[Izulde]

10.7 - Queen Isabella - Ruler/Leader - Spain - Pre-20th Century

Although she's often paired with Ferdinand as the Catholic Monarchs, it was Isabella who was the stronger of the two by far. A skilled, beautiful, devout ruler, she was not only able to complete the Reconquista during her reign, but she also launched the Age of Exploration in Spain, key to making the kingdom a world power. She also was able to keep Castile a separate kingdom, despite Ferdinand's grasping for the throne repeatedly.

Can you imagine the skill at intrigue and unification we have for our new nation with this woman as our ruler and Bismarck as the Chief Diplomat? Our independence and rise as a world power are virtually assured.

[Abe Sargent]

A very strong pick, and one of the few I had circled for a late pikcup in r/l. Very good!

[DaddyTorgo]

nice pick izulde

[Izulde]

A very strong pick, and one of the few I had circled for a late pikcup in r/l. Very good!

Thanks. :) She's my favorite monarch of all time, so I'd planned to make her my ruler if she was still around in the late game.

[Izulde]

Thanks, DT :)

[Noop]

10.8 - Alonso Pérez de Guzmán - Navy Chief - Spain - pre 20th

[Abe Sargent]

I cannot believe that no one took the UK for leader/ruler. There are tons of great monarchs and prime ministers available, and no one took any. That astounds me. I'm not going there for my leader either, but still, color me surprised.

[Izulde]

I cannot believe that no one took the UK for leader/ruler. There are tons of great monarchs and prime ministers available, and no one took any. That astounds me. I'm not going there for my leader either, but still, color me surprised.

I was going to take Churchill for leader/ruler before he got snapped up. And there was an English ruler I -almost- took instead of Isabel.

But I'm a little surprised myself.

[Barkeep49]

10.9 Nadia Elena Comăneci Romania Athlete 20th Century

Perfection is hard to argue with.

[Abe Sargent]

Give me about 5 minutes and I'll have mine in

[larrymcg421]

Finishing up the first post while watching the Celtics pretend to be a D-League team.

[DaddyTorgo]

Finishing up the first post while watching the Celtics pretend to be a D-League team.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:rant:

[Izulde]

Finishing up the first post while watching the Celtics pretend to be a D-League team.

That reminds me, I need to finish the East Conference Finals and post them.

[DaddyTorgo]

That reminds me, I need to finish the East Conference Finals and post them.

given his dissapearing act this series you might not want to trade for ray allen :p

[Abe Sargent]

10.10 Sydney Opera House, Manmade Structure, Australia, 20th

[DaddyTorgo]

10.10 Sydney Opera House, Manmade Structure, Australia, 20th

hmmm :confused:

[Abe Sargent]

I wanted a world class icon structure, but it had to be 20th century.

[Izulde]

10.10 Sydney Opera House, Manmade Structure, Australia, 20th

I thought about this one.

[Surtt]

10.11 Ferdinand Magellan, Navy Chief, Portugal, Pre-20

[Izulde]

10.11 Ferdinand Magellan, Navy Chief, Portugal, Pre-20

Damn you! :mad:

[Abe Sargent]

10.11 Ferdinand Magellan, Navy Chief, Portugal, Pre-20

Great value

[larrymcg421]

Apathetic Lurker picks:

10.12 Pierre Fredy (Baron de Coubertin), Athlete, France, pre 20th

12.1 Zarathustra, Religious Leader, Iran, pre 20th

[Izulde]

Excellent value with Zarathrustra

[Abe Sargent]

Surtt's back up!

[Surtt]

Surtt's back up!

Give me a few min.
Didn't expect to be back up so soon.

[Surtt]

11.2 Charles Ponzi, Economist, Italy, Post-20


Hey, I can get in on the ground floor...
All I need is to get a few other nations to sign up...