Historical Nation Draft

[Abe Sargent]

11.3 Michelangelo, artist, Vatican, pre-20th

[Noop]

11.3 Michelangelo, artist, Vatican, pre-20th

I know they are their own state but if this counts then how come mine didn't?

[Abe Sargent]

Connections between Michelangelo and Vatican:

1. Michel designed the dome to St. Peter's Basillica, generally considered his greatest architectural work, which revolutionized classical architecture

2. Many consider Pieta to be his 2nd best statue after David. Pieta is in the Vatican.

3. The ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is considered to be one of the greatest works of the era, and another of his signature works. It was done by Michelangelo

4. Another fresco on the wall of the Chapel was done by Michelanglo.

5. He spent well over ten years of his life working in the Vatican on these various projects.

[Danny]

10.11 Ferdinand Magellan, Navy Chief, Portugal, Pre-20

I thought about him, but not sure how well he would do in warfare.

[larrymcg421]

Vatican is independent. Scotland is part of the UK.

This pick was approved in advance. It was a close call, but the connection was strong enough, because the work is so identifiable with the country. It does not mean that any artist could be picked for a work they did in another country.

[Noop]

Connections between Michelangelo and Vatican:

1. Michel designed the dome to St. Peter's Basillica, generally considered his greatest architectural work, which revolutionized classical architecture

2. Many consider Pieta to be his 2nd best statue after David. Pieta is in the Vatican.

3. The ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is considered to be one of the greatest works of the era, and another of his signature works. It was done by Michelangelo

4. Another fresco on the wall of the Chapel was done by Michelanglo.

5. He spent well over ten years of his life working in the Vatican on these various projects.

It is in Italy.

[Abe Sargent]

It is in Italy.

No, they are not. The Vatican is its own country. All of these are in the Vatican.

[Noop]

Vatican is independent. Scotland is part of the UK.

This pick was approved in advance. It was a close call, but the connection was strong enough, because the work is so identifiable with the country. It does not mean that any artist could be picked for a work they did in another country.

Ok someone picked Puetro Rico why aren't they allowed to pick that person?

[Abe Sargent]

Because PR is a US territory. The Vatican is its own country.

[Noop]

No, they are not. The Vatican is its own country. All of these are in the Vatican.

Look Abe I am not trying to crap on your pick or anything I just want to know why that is legal and others are not.

[Lathum]

Ok someone picked Puetro Rico why aren't they allowed to pick that person?

Because Puerto Rico isn't an indepandent nation. It's a US territory, not sure what the issue is.

[larrymcg421]

Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States. Vatican is completely sovereign.

[Lathum]

Vatican City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City)

[DaddyTorgo]

that's kinda sketchy. he was born in italy, and no doubt resided in italy while doing the work in vatican city.

i was a bit unsure as to whether this would be legal or not, he was definately on my list and i thought about it last round before thinking that it wouldn't be legal

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm not bitching, cuz there are a ton of good artists left out there - just saying i can see why someone would raise the question. since the connection is so tenuous does that mean we only are considering him for the work that exists within the walls of vatican city? idk

[Abe Sargent]

that's kinda sketchy. he was born in italy, and no doubt resided in italy while doing the work in vatican city.

i was a bit unsure as to whether this would be legal or not, he was definately on my list and i thought about it last round before thinking that it wouldn't be legal

His greatest fresco, greatest architectural accomplishments, 2nd greatest statue. Not much of a restriction.

Would you consider Simon Bolivar's work only limited to Venezuela and not to the other five countries that consider him a founding father? That's where he was picked after all.

[larrymcg421]

Like I said, it was a close call, and I only let it go because it was most important work and is so closely tied to the Vatican.

[Noop]

So if I wanted to pick Robert E. Lee as my Army Chief I could categorize him as being in the South oppose to America. The south broke away and had their own nation with their own president and governing system. If the Vatican is legal then the south is legal or perhaps the North.

[DaddyTorgo]

So if I wanted to pick Robert E. Lee as my Army Chief I could categorize him as being in the South oppose to America. The south broke away and had their own nation with their own president and governing system. If the Vatican is legal then the south is legal or perhaps the North.

shut your mouth!!! :rant:i was considering doing just that!

but yes, under these rules I'd say so.

[larrymcg421]

i'm not bitching, cuz there are a ton of good artists left out there - just saying i can see why someone would raise the question. since the connection is so tenuous does that mean we only are considering him for the work that exists within the walls of vatican city? idk

Right. Just because I rule there is a strong enough connection for the pick to be made does not mean the voters can't hit you for a weak connection.

[Abe Sargent]

I honestly could find no evidence that he lived in Rome or the Vatican during his time working there. No one seems to care where he lived. But he worked in a place day in and day in for years and years. That is a connection.

[DaddyTorgo]

I wonder whether it was considered its own nation at the time though...if it wasn't that kinda dings you

[larrymcg421]

No, the south wouldn't count because we are using modern countries.

[Noop]

No, the south wouldn't count because we are using modern countries.

That doesn't make sense because the South exists today just united with the north now but at the time it was a viable country. Look Larry I am not trying to give you a hard time because I know running this draft is hard but if this was known it would have changed the draft.

[DaddyTorgo]

just saying - i thought about making this pick last round, but then saw da vinci and said "nope, italy's already off the board" - i think trying to shoehorn him into the vatican would be like..hmm...i can think of some other pretty big "shoehorns", but they haven't been done yet so i won't discuss them

[Izulde]

The South doesn't exist as a separate country today.

The Vatican does.

[Abe Sargent]

I wonder whether it was considered its own nation at the time though...if it wasn't that kinda dings you

First, of all, no it doesnt. India wasn;t its own state during Ghandi's day in the sun, it was part of the UK, but that doesn't matter, does it?



Second of all, I present to you The Papal States. Note the same country, the Papal States went out and then the Vatican came back, but both tuled by the Pope, so perhaps you consider that the same.

[Noop]

Vatican City was founded in 1929. Michelangelo was long dead.

[Abe Sargent]

It's like I threw a bomb in the thread! ;)

[Danny]

Based on our rules and the logic we have used so far, Abe's pick should stand. It's also a great pick.

[larrymcg421]

That doesn't make sense because the South exists today just united with the north now but at the time it was a viable country. Look Larry I am not trying to give you a hard time because I know running this draft is hard but if this was known it would have changed the draft.

The rule is you have to pick a country that exists today. The south does not exist as a country. Robert E. Lee could have been chosen for United states just like William Wallace was chosen for the UK.

The Vatican city is completely sovereign country that exists today.

[Danny]

The South doesn't exist as a separate country today.

The Vatican does.

This is the key point, we're going with the countries as they stand today.

[Noop]

The rule is you have to pick a country that exists today. The south does not exist. Robert E. Lee could have been chosen for United states just like William Wallace was chosen for the UK.

The Vatican city is completely sovereign country that exists today.

Fine. I will not push the issue anymore. My apologizes to everyone.

[Abe Sargent]

I don't mind ;)

[Danny]

Fine. I will not push the issue anymore. My apologizes to everyone.

No need to apologize

[DaddyTorgo]

lol

hey i don't have a huge problem with it - i could have just as easily asked larry earlier about the pick. he's a good artist, but there are plenty of good ones left out there in various disciplines so i'm not like concerned or anything.

just seems like a real tenuous connection - here's a guy born in italy, no doubt lived in italy during the time (i'm sure he went back to his workshop in rome for stuff and slept in his own bed), and you're trying to in some sense work an end-run around the rules because a bunch of his pieces happen to exist within a tiny little country that is 100% enclosed by Italy, and is totally dependent on it for food, water, power, etc.

[Abe Sargent]

lol

hey i don't have a huge problem with it - i could have just as easily asked larry earlier about the pick. he's a good artist, but there are plenty of good ones left out there in various disciplines so i'm not like concerned or anything.

just seems like a real tenuous connection - here's a guy born in italy, no doubt lived in italy during the time (i'm sure he went back to his workshop in rome for stuff and slept in his own bed), and you're trying to in some sense work an end-run around the rules because a bunch of his pieces happen to exist within a tiny little country that is 100% enclosed by Italy, and is totally dependent on it for food, water, power, etc.

Let me ask you this. If DaVinci had not been taken, and I had taken Michelangelo for Italy, would you consider these major works of his that were done for the Pope, in the Vatican, and still are in the Vatican. Would you consider them in your vote? I mean, they would not be in Italy, they would be in a different country. I doubt it. I bet you would consider them when voting for my team. It's not like I took him for Macedonia, where one minor painting is. These are his greatest and most well-known works, except for one statue (David). All but one of his greatest works were done there and are there today. It's not a loose connection

Okay, I;m done with the Michelangelo defense. Next up!

[DaddyTorgo]

nope - if da vinci hadn't been taken i would have considered them for italy. he's an italian painter, living in italy, sleeping in italy, speaking italian, etc. his works just happen to be within 4 walls that make them a separate country? Tenuous connection IMHO.

[Danny]

It's ok, Abe's pick for manmade structure was weak, so it balances out the Michaelangelo pick.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's ok, Abe's pick for manmade structure was weak, so it balances out the Michaelangelo pick.


LOL

ZING!!!

[Abe Sargent]

It's ok, Abe's pick for manmade structure was weak, so it balances out the Michaelangelo pick.

I love you too

[Danny]

I love you too

I couldn't find the heart emoticon :(

[Noop]

Am I the only one who finds Abe and Danny highly entertaining? You guys should do a podcast or something.

[Danny]

Am I the only one who finds Abe and Danny highly entertaining?

I am pretty sure everyone does

[Abe Sargent]

Am I the only one who finds Abe and Danny highly entertaining? You guys should do a podcast or something.

As long as my name comes first.

[Abe Sargent]

I just want to take a second and go off script. This has been, without a doubt, one of my 5 most fun non-WW experiences on the board and I have loved every minutes of it. Thanks to larry, and thanks to each of you. I've had an downright blast.

[Danny]

As long as my name comes first.

I was this close to posting a joke about you liking to come first, but I was able to stop myself!

[larrymcg421]

Thanks, Abe!

[Danny]

I was this close to posting a joke about you liking to come first, but I was able to stop myself!

Unlike Abe! (sorry had to)

[Abe Sargent]

You can't reply to yourself and try to burn someone else. That's just dumb.

[Abe Sargent]

You need to find a better hobby than forum masturbation.

[ntndeacon]

I thought that was a clever and brilliant choice for Artist, Abe. I wish I had thought of it. There are several picks that will get knocked down at least on my ballot, because I have a disagreement about something regarding that pick...This wont be one of those.

[Danny]

You need to find a better hobby than forum masturbation.

Like playing magic? :D

[larrymcg421]

The fuck? The forum just swallowed my entire first post.

[larrymcg421]

Okay, I had an older version in another window, but I'm going to have to finish the updates tomorrow.

[Barkeep49]

I lost the pick # with all of the Vatican discussion (which I think is legal BTW and is more kosher than Taiwan)

11.4 Diego Rivera Artist Mexico 20th Century

[ntndeacon]

that would be 11.4 Barkeep

[Barkeep49]

Thanks

[larrymcg421]

Hmmm, now that BK mentioned it, I'm going to have to review the Taiwan pick. I didn't even really pay attention to the country on that one, and no objection was made at the time. It does seem their situation is a little different than Scotland and PR, but is it different enough? Looking into it...

[DaddyTorgo]

speaking of that - what about james joyce and ireland?

*ducks*

[larrymcg421]

Joyce was born in Dublin.

[Noop]

I sent a PM to Larry about one of my picks so bare(panda bear) with me.

[larrymcg421]

I approved it, and I'll have an explanation as soon as the pick is made.

[Abe Sargent]

Republic of China, aka Taiwan, is its own country, yup.

[Noop]

11.5 Harriet Tubman - Civil Rights - Canada - 20th Century

[larrymcg421]

I approved Tubman for Canada because she actually did live there, helped her family escape to there, and helped up to 30,000 slaves escape there, and many Black Canadian communities developed as a result.

[Alan T]

I approved Tubman for Canada because she actually did live there, helped her family escape to there, and helped up to 30,000 slaves escape there, and many Black Canadian communities developed as a result.

I can't fault this ruling at all. Based on the rules of the draft, much of her work can be tied to Canada. From a voter's perspective however, I'm not sure that this pick will receive that much weight to me however as most of her work was not in Canada. She only started helping bring slaves to Canada once the slave fugutive act was passed, and even then the majority of her work was still in the USA, including the time in the civil war where she helped serve the Union Army.

At this late in the draft however, I highly doubt anyone is counting on picks here to be the main weight in getting voters to go for them however. So probably not a big deal.

[ntndeacon]

Harriet Tubman was in the 20th century?

[Danny]

Harriet Tubman was in the 20th century?

She technically lived until then, but all of her contributions were earlier. The pick should still be allowed in 20th, but I think ithe questions surrounding the pick will be reflected in the voting

[DaddyTorgo]

She also moved her family back from Southern Ontario to Auburn, NY and lived out the last years of her life there, not in Canada. So the Canada connection is extremely tenuous. She "lived" there from 1855-1859 (although how much she was actually there is up to debate, her parents and family were there) according to what I could find on Wikipedia. And then lived from 1859-1913 in Auburn, NY.

[Danny]

Izulde is up right?

[Coffee Warlord]

Someone kick Izulde in the face.

[Galaril]

Wow we really are slacking now.

[Abe Sargent]

We went so fast over the weekend too.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm halfway tempted to pick since I'm picking in a category he already has.

[Danny]

Did anyone PM him?

[Danny]

I did just now, just in case

[Surtt]

I'm halfway tempted to pick since I'm picking in a category he already has.

That might confuse people and we still would have to wait anyway.

[Danny]

I'm halfway tempted to just put in my final four picks

[Izulde]

Guh, sorry! I slept 15 hours :(

[Izulde]

Looking over board now.

[Izulde]

11.6 Robert de La Salle - Navy Chief - France - Pre-20th Century

Arguably the most extensive of the French explorers, he explored the Great Lakes region, the Mississippi River and the Gulf of Mexico. His Louisiana expeditions are his most famous and his discoveries and explorations led to his claiming the entire Mississippi River basin for France.

[Coffee Warlord]

11.7 Carl Menger, Economist, Poland, 20th

I give to you...the founder of the Austrian School of Economics. Tutored the crown prince of Austria in economics, chair of politicial economy in Vienna, and headed a commission to reform the Austrian monetary system.

[DaddyTorgo]

cool. I can't believe this guy is still here.

11.8 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Artist, Austria, Pre-20th century

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry - was reinstalling windows there for the last lil while

[Noop]

cool. I can't believe this guy is still here.

11.8 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Artist, Austria, Pre-20th century

I dispute this pick.

[Danny]

What's wrong with it?

[Noop]

It is tenuous at best.

[DaddyTorgo]

I dispute this pick.

based on what? the lists of people by category aren't there - did someone pick an austrian artist already?

[DaddyTorgo]

music is art

[Danny]

Because of the category?

[DaddyTorgo]

unquestionably

musical ARTISTS

[Noop]

music is art

Missing the joke? You said the same about my pick earlier, I am just kidding with you.

[Danny]

Music is art, there's a reason the grammy is given to best musical artist.

[larrymcg421]

The first post was getting too big for the forum, and that's why it kept disappearing. I'm gonna add a link to the category and drafter lists tonight.

[DaddyTorgo]

Missing the joke? You said the same about my pick earlier, I am just kidding with you.

lol yep - missing the joke!

You would have loved what I would have picked if USA artist + 20th century wasn't picked then!

[Noop]

lol yep - missing the joke!

You would have loved what I would have picked if USA artist + 20th century wasn't picked then!

Throw up since it likely can't be used.

[DaddyTorgo]

a certain King...

[DaddyTorgo]

of Pop

[Danny]

Justin Timberlake?

[DaddyTorgo]

MJ

[Noop]

I would have picked a porn star but that's me. I will have a oil rich country with plenty of beautiful women walking around.

[Danny]

MJ

I wouldn't call the rolling stones pop.

[Abe Sargent]

a certain King...

BB King! Damn you took my secret weapon

[DaddyTorgo]

lol

anyways, VERY psyched to get my clear #1 musician pick for an artist this late in the draft. Great pickup IMHO.

[ntndeacon]

11.9 St. Benedict--Religious Leader-- Italy--Pre 20th century

Let's go with the father of Western Christianity monastic tradition and a large order of monks.

[Danny]

11.10 Amazon Rain Forest, Geographical Location - Brazil, Pre 20th Century

[DaddyTorgo]

cool pick danny

[Galaril]

11.11 Joseph Schumpeter,Economist, Moria (Czech Rep.)-Post 20th

[Surtt]

8.8 Saint Augustine - Religious Leader - Algeria- Pre20th Century

I want to put Italy instead of Algeria(I copied the wrong word and pasted real quick) but I don't want anyone to cry foul. So I will wait until Larry allows me to change it.


Didn't this get changed to Italy?

[Noop]

Didn't this get changed to Italy?

That's what i was wondering but never got it confirmed by Larry.

[larrymcg421]

Hmm, I thought I had changed it, but it must have got lost in all the issues I had with the first post. Since Noop requested the change before anyone else picked, it is allowed, so ntndeacon will have to repick.

I'd like it if we can hold off until he gets back here to make his pick, though, because he may not want religious leader now so I wouldn't want him to lose any other picks because he rightfully thought he was making a valid pick.

[Lathum]

umm, where did the part of the post go with each catergory and who has been picked there?

[larrymcg421]

umm, where did the part of the post go with each catergory and who has been picked there?

The forum erased it, so I have to redo it from scratch, which is taking some time.

[larrymcg421]

I have PM'd ntndeacon to come back and repick. Let's hold off until he does.

[Lathum]

The forum erased it, so I have to redo it from scratch, which is taking some time.

ugh

[DaddyTorgo]

yah - death

[Danny]

We sure had our progress halted yesterday and today

[DaddyTorgo]

ah well. all drafts hit a wall somewhere...no big deal

[ntndeacon]

sorry I had forgotton that change. I am looking now.

[Galaril]

Lathum's up.

[Danny]

NTN is fixing his previous pick and then Lathum x2, you, me and NTN again.

[ntndeacon]

11.9 Guru Nanak Dev--Religious leader--Pakistan--pre 20th century

1st of the 10 10 Sihk Gurus and the central figure in the 5th largest religion, Sihkism.

[Lathum]

I am up, yes?

[Danny]

Yes

[ntndeacon]

I believe so, Lathum

[Lathum]

OK, so not having everything consolodated makes it really hard to see what countries are available if what catergories so if I mess up I'm sorry

[Lathum]

11.12- Diplomat- Bono-Ireland- 20th Century- I am sure I'll get shit for this pick being out of the box, but the guy has done countless work in Africa and was knighted and nominated for a Noble prize.

[Lathum]

so is there even anywhere that the catergories are listed anymore?

[larrymcg421]

Leader/Ruler:
Army Chief:
Navy Chief:
Air Chief:
Chief Diplomat:
Economist:
Justice Minister:
Civil Rights Leader:
Religious Leader:
Scientist:
Athlete:
Artist:
Manmade Structure:
Georgraphical Location:

I will try to finish up the category listings tonight.

[Abe Sargent]

11.12- Diplomat- Bono-Ireland- 20th Century- I am sure I'll get shit for this pick being out of the box, but the guy has done countless work in Africa and was knighted and nominated for a Noble prize.

Wow. Just. Wow.

[Lathum]

12.1- economist-Chanakya- India- pre 20th centruy

[Lathum]

Wow. Just. Wow.

care to elaborate?

I admit it's out of the box, but you can't deny the mans accomplishments.

[Noop]

I will tell you Lathum if you send Bono to my country there will be war.

[Danny]

I think all 11 of us will now declare war on Lathum and wipe him out.

[Lathum]

guy got nominated for a Noble prize, must be doing something right

[Galaril]

Sorry. got locked out at work for some reason fucking websense decided to all of a sudden block FOFC. I will have to track down that alternate URL to access FOFC from work. Or I could just order my netwrok engineer to reconfigure websense since I am incharge of it.

12.2- Captain, René Fonck-Air Force Commander, (France)- post 20th century

He was the top Allied WW1 Ace

[larrymcg421]

??

[Danny]

That was weird, pasted the wrong text?

[Danny]

12.3 The Colosseum, Man Made Structure - Italy, Pre 20th Century

[ntndeacon]

guy got nominated for a Noble prize, must be doing something right

If it was a Nobel Prize I would be more impressed. lol

[ntndeacon]

12.4 Andrei Sakarov--Civil Rights--Russia--20th century

[Abe Sargent]

care to elaborate?

I admit it's out of the box, but you can't deny the mans accomplishments.

I just have a simple elaboration, and one I'm sure you had to consider.

It's choosing a part-time humanitarian for a diplomat position. That just seems...off to me somehow. Humanitarian does not translate into diplomat, and a part time one even less.

That's all.

[larrymcg421]

Leader/Ruler:

1.2 surtt - Julius Cesar, Leader/Ruler, Italy, pre-20th
1.11 Galaril - Abraham Lincoln, Leader/Ruler, United States, Pre-20th
2.12 Apathetic Lurker - Josef Stalin, Leader/Ruler, Russia, 20th
4.3 Danny - Adolph Hitler, Leader/Ruler, Germany, 20th century
4.6 Coffee Warlord - Charlemagne, Leader/Ruler, France, Pre-20th
5.5 Noop - King David, Leader, Israel, Pre-20th Century
7.12 Lathum - Mao Zedung, Leader/Ruler, China, 20th
9.4 Barkeep - Sulieman the Magnificent Turkey Ruler/Leader Pre-20th
10.4 ntndeacon - Chi'ang Kai-shek, Leader/Ruler, Taiwan, 20th Century
10.5 DaddyTorgo - Jawaharlal Nehru, Ruler/Leader, India, 20th Century
10.7 Izulde - Queen Isabella - Ruler/Leader - Spain - Pre-20th Century

Chief Diplomat:

2.10 Abe Sargent - Marco Polo, Chief Diplomat, Italy, Pre-20th
3.6 Izulde - Otto von Bismarck, Chief Diplomat, Germany, Pre-20th
3.9 ntndeacon - Theodore Roosevelt, Chief Diplomat, United States, 20th century
5.2 surtt - Sir Winston Churchill, Diplomat, UK, Post-20
5.10 Danny - Pope John Paul II, Chief Diplomat, Poland, 20th century
6.9 Barkeep49 - Tallyrand, Diplomat, France, Pre-20th Century
7.8 DaddyTorgo - Klemens Wenzel, Prince von Metternich, Chief Diplomat Austria, Pre-20th Century
7.11 Galaril - Mikhail Gorbachev, Diplomat, Russia, 20th
8.6 Coffee Warlord - Yasser Arafat, Diplomat, Egypt, 20th
11.12 Lathum - Bono, Chief Diplomat, Ireland, 20th Century

Army Chief:

1.1 Apathetic Lurker - Sun Tzu, Army Chief, China, Pre-20th
1.3 Abe Sargent - Alexander the Great, Army Chief, Greece, pre-20th
2.2 Galaril - Dwight D. Eisenhower, Army Chief, United States, 20th
2.11 surtt - Napoleon Bonaparte, Army Chief, France, pre-20th
3.4 Barkeep49 - Ghengis Khan, Army Chief, Mongolia, Pre-20th
4.1 Lathum - William Wallace, Army Chief, Great Britain, Pre-20th
5.7 Coffee Warlord - Erwin Rommel, Army Leader, Germany, Post 20th
5.9 ntndeacon - Attilla the Hun, Army Chief, Hungary, pre-20th century
7.5 Noop - Saladin, Army Chief, Egypt, Pre-20th
8.7 Izulde - Rodrigo "El Cid" Diaz de Vivar - Army Chief - Spain - Pre-20th Century

Navy Chief: (This category is complete)

1.9 ntndeacon - Horatio Nelson, Navy Chief, Great Britain, pre-20th century
3.12 Lathum - John Paul Jones, Naval Chief, United States, Pre-20th century
5.3 Abe Sargent - Tōgō Heihachirō, Japan, Navy Chief, 20th
8.9 Barkeep - Yi Sun-sin Naval Chief Korea Pre-20th
8.12 Apathetic Lurker - Karl Doenitz, Naval Chief, Germany 20th
9.7 Coffee Warlord - Henry Morgan, Navy Chief, Jamaica, Pre-20th
9.8 DaddyTorgo - Themistocles, Naval Chief, Greece, Pre-20th century
9.11 Galaril - Peter I The Great, Naval Commander-Russia, pre-20th century
10.3 Danny - Michiel de Ruyter, Naval Commander - Netherlands, Pre-20th Century
10.8 Noop - Alonso Pérez de Guzmán - Navy Chief - Spain - pre 20th
10.11 Surtt - Ferdinand Magellan, Navy Chief, Portugal, Pre-20
11.6 Izulde - Robert de La Salle - Navy Chief - France - Pre-20th Century

Air Chief:

1.6 Izulde - Manfred "The Red Baron" von Richthofen, Air Chief, Germany, 20th Century
2.9 Barkeep49 - John Glenn, Air Chief, United States, 20th
3.1 Apathetic Lurker - Sir Arthur Harris, Air Chief, Great Britain, 20th
5.8 DaddyTorgo - Mordechai Hod, Air Force Leader, Israel, 20th Century
6.1 Lathum - Yuri Gagarin, Air Chief, Russia, 20th
6.4 ntndeacon - Alberto Santos, Dumont, Air Chief, Brazil, 20th century
6.6 Coffee Warlord - Anthony Fokker, Air Chief, Netherlands, 20th Century
7.2 surtt - Billy Bishop, Air Chief, Canada, 20th Century
7.3 Abe Sargent - Sergey Korolyov, Air Chief, Ukraine, 20th
7.10 Danny - Isoroku Yamamoto, Air Chief, Japan, 20th
12.2 Galaril - Captain Rene Fronck, Air Chief, France, 20th

Justice Minister:

2.8 Noop - King Solomon, Justice Minister, Israel, Pre-20th
3.8 DaddyTorgo - John Marshall, Justice Minister, American, Pre-20th Century
4.4 ntndeacon - Tobias Michael Carel Asser, Justice Minister, The Netherlands, 20th century
4.7 Izulde - Hammurabi, Justice Minister, Iraq, Pre-20th Century
4.9 Barkeep49 - Moses, Justice Minister, Egypt, Pre-20th
5.11 Galaril - Darius the Great, Iran , Justice Minister, Pre 20th century
6.10 Abe Sargent - John Locke, Justice Minister, UK, Pre20th
7.7 Coffee Warlord - Socrates, Justice Minister, Greece, Pre-20th

Economist:

1.4 Barkeep49 - Adam Smith, Economist, Great Britain, Pre-20th
2.4 ntndeacon - Karl Marx, Economist, Germany, pre-20th
2.5 DaddyTorgo - John Kenneth Galbraith, Economist, United States, 20th
4.12 Apathetic Lurker - Ibn Khaldoun, Economist, Tunisia, Pre-20th century
9.5 Noop - Xiao Gang - Economist - China - 20th Century
9.6 Izulde - Satoru Iwata - Economist - Japan - 20th Century
9.10 Danny - Friedrich Hayek, Economist - Austria, 20th century
11.2 Surtt - Charles Ponzi, Economist, Italy, Post-20
11.7 Coffee Warlord - Carl Menger, Economist, Poland, 20th
11.11 Galaril - Joseph Schumpeter,Economist, Moria (Czech Rep.)-Post 20th
12.1 Lathum - Chanakya, Economist, India, pre-20th

Civil Rights Activist: (Category is done)

1.8 DaddyTorgo - Martin Luther King Jr., Civil Rights Activist, USA, 20th Century
1.12 Lathum - Nelson Mandela, Civil Rights Activist, South Africa, 20th
2.3 Danny - Mahatma Ghandi, Civil Rights Activist, India, 20th
4.2 Galaril - John Stuart Mills, Civil Rights Leader, Great Britain, Pre-20th
4.10 Abe Sargent - Mother Theresa, Civil Rights Activist, Albania, 20th
5.1 Apathetic Lurker - Simon Bolivar, Civil Rights, Venezuela, Pre-20th Century
5.6 Izulde - Confucius, Civil Rights Leader, China, Pre-20th Century
6.11 surtt - Lech Walesa, Civil Rights Activist, Poland, 20th Century
7.4 Barkeep49 - Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Civil Rights Activist, Burma, 20th Century
10.6 Coffee Warlord - Henri Dunant, Civil Rights Leader, Switzerland, 20th Century
11.5 Noop - Harriet Tubman - Civil Rights - Canada - 20th
12.4 ntndeacon - Andrei Sakarov, Civil Rights Activist, Russia, 20th Century


Scientist:

2.6 Coffee Warlord - Albert Einstein, Scientist, Germany, 20th
3.5 Noop - Imhotep, Scientist, Egypt, Pre-20th
3.10 Danny - Aristotle, Scientist, Greece, Pre-20th
3.11 Galaril - Ben Franklin, Scientist - America, Pre 20th Century
4.5 DaddyTorgo - Isaac Newton, Scientist, United Kingdom, Pre-20th Century
4.11 surtt - Louis Pasteur, Scientist, France, Pre-20th
5.4 Barkeep49 - Marie Curie, Poland, Scientist, 20th Century
6.7 Izulde - Galileo Galilei - Scientist - Italy - Pre-20th Century
7.1 Apathetic Lurker - Ibn al-haytham, Scientist, Iraq, Pre-20th century
8.10 Abe - Sigmund Freud, Scientist, Austria, 20th
9.9 ntndeacon - Niels Bohr-Scientist-Denmark-20th century

Artist:

2.1 Lathum - Leonardo Da Vinci, Artist, Italy, pre-20th
3.7 Coffee Warlord - William Shakespeare, Artist, England, Pre 20th
6.2 Galaril - Pablo Picasso, Artist, Spain 20th
6.3 Danny - Alfred Hitchcock, Artist, United States, 20th century
6.8 Noop - James Joyce, Artist, Ireland, 20th Century
6.12 Apathetic Lurker - En Hedu' Anna, Artist, Iraq, pre-20th century
8.11 Surtt - Vincent van Gogh, Artist, Netherlands, Pre-20th
11.3 Abe - Michelangelo, artist, Vatican, pre-20th
11.4 Barkeep - Diego Rivera Artist Mexico 20th Century
11.8 DaddyTorgo - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Artist, Austria, Pre-20th


Athlete:

2.7 Izulde - Jim Brown, Athlete, United States, 20th
4.8 Noop - Pele, Athlete, Brazil, 20th Century
8.1 Lathum - Roger Bannister, Athlete, United Kingdom, 20th
8.3 Danny - Wayne Gretzky, Athlete, Canada, Post 20th century
8.4 ntndeacon - Diego Maradona-Athlete-Argentina-20th century
9.3 Abe - Miyamoto Musashi, Athelete, Japan, Pre20th
10.9 Barkeep - Nadia Elena Comăneci Romania Athlete 20th Century
10.12 Apathetic Lurker - Pierre Fredy (Baron de Coubertin), Athlete, France, pre 20th

Religious Leader:

1.7 Coffee Warlord - Jesus Christ, Religious Leader, Israel, Pre-20th
1.10 Danny - Muhammad, Religious Leader, Saudi Arabia, pre-20th
3.2 surtt - Dalai Lama, Religious Leader, China, Post-20th
3.3 Abe Sargent - Siddhartha Buddha, India, Religious Leader, Pre20th
8.5 DaddyTorgo - Martin Luther, Religious Leader, Germany, Pre-20th Century
8.8 Noop - Saint Augustine - Religious Leader - Algeria- Pre20th Century
10.1 Lathum - Joseph Smith, Religious Leader, USA, Pre 20th Century
10.2 Galaril - Saint Patrick, Religious Leader - Ireland, Pre-20th century
11.1 Apathetic Lurker - Zarathustra, Religious Leader, Iran, pre 20th
11.9 ntndeacon - Guru Nanak Dev--Religious leader--Pakistan--pre 20th century

Manmade Structure:

5.12 Lathum - Great Wall of China, Manmade structure, China, pre-20th7.9 ntndeacon - Great Pryamid at Giza-Man Made Structure, Egypt, pre 20th
8.2 Galaril - Statue of Liberty, Manmade Structure, USA, Pre-20th
9.2 Surtt - Panama Canal, Man made Structure, Panama, Post-20th
10.10 Abe - Sydney Opera House, Manmade Structure, Australia, 20th


Geographical Location (River, Mountain, Lake, etc.):

1.5 Noop - Oil Fields of Saudi Arabia, Geographical Location, Saudi Arabia, Pre-20th
6.5 DaddyTorgo - Geographical Location - Fertile Crescent, Iraq, Pre-20th Century
7.6 Izulde - Mt. Everest, Geographic Location, China, 20th Century
9.1 Apathetic Lurker - British Isles, Geographic Location, UK, 20th
9.12 Lathum - Great Barrier Reef, Geographical Location, Australia- 20th Century
11.10 Danny - Amazon Rain Forest, Geographical Location - Brazil, Pre 20th Century

[larrymcg421]

Working on the remaining categories.

[Danny]

I think some Army Chief's are missing, I'll look through

[Danny]

Ghengis Khan, Millitary Leader, Mongolia, Pre-20th
Rodrigo "El Cid" Diaz de Vivar - Military Chief - Spain - Pre-20th Century

[Danny]

Those should be added to Army Chief

[larrymcg421]

Ah, I was using find so I could do it one category at a time, and I was using "Army".

Thanks, Danny!

[larrymcg421]

Abe Sargent - Michelangelo, artist, Vatican, pre-20th
Abe Sargent - Miyamoto Musashi, Athelete, Japan, Pre20th
Abe Sargent - Alexander the Great, Army Chief, Greece, pre-20th
Abe Sargent - John Locke, Justice Minister, UK, Pre20th
Abe Sargent - Marco Polo, Chief Diplomat, Italy, Pre-20th
Abe Sargent - Mother Theresa, Civil Rights Activist, Albania, 20th
Abe Sargent - Sergey Korolyov, Air Chief, Ukraine, 20th
Abe Sargent - Siddhartha Buddha, India, Religious Leader, Pre20th
Abe Sargent - Sigmund Freud, Scientist, Austria, 20th
Abe Sargent - Sydney Opera House, Manmade Structure, Australia, 20th
Abe Sargent - Tōgō Heihachirō, Japan, Navy Chief, 20th


Apathetic Lurker - British Isles, Geographic Location, UK, 20th
Apathetic Lurker - En Hedu' Anna, Artist, Iraq, pre-20th century
Apathetic Lurker - Ibn al-haytham, Scientist, Iraq, Pre-20th century
Apathetic Lurker - Ibn Khaldoun, Economist, Tunisia, Pre-20th century
Apathetic Lurker - Josef Stalin, Leader/Ruler, Russia, 20th
Apathetic Lurker - Karl Doenitz, Naval Chief, Germany 20th
Apathetic Lurker - Pierre Fredy (Baron de Coubertin), Athlete, France, pre 20th
Apathetic Lurker - Simon Bolivar, Civil Rights, Venezuela, Pre-20th Century
Apathetic Lurker - Sir Arthur Harris, Air Chief, Great Britain, 20th
Apathetic Lurker - Sun Tzu, Army Chief, China, Pre-20th
Apathetic Lurker - Zarathustra, Religious Leader, Iran, pre 20th


Barkeep - Adam Smith, Economist, Great Britain, Pre-20th
Barkeep - Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Civil Rights Activist, Burma, 20th Century
Barkeep - Diego Rivera Artist Mexico 20th Century
Barkeep - Ghengis Khan, Army Chief, Mongolia, Pre-20th
Barkeep - John Glenn, Air Chief, United States, 20th
Barkeep - Marie Curie, Poland, Scientist, 20th Century
Barkeep - Moses, Justice Minister, Egypt, Pre-20th
Barkeep - Nadia Elena Comăneci Romania Athlete 20th Century
Barkeep - Sulieman the Magnificent Turkey Ruler/Leader Pre-20th
Barkeep - Tallyrand, Diplomat, France, Pre-20th Century
Barkeep - Yi Sun-sin Naval Chief Korea Pre-20th


Coffee Warlord - Albert Einstein, Scientist, Germany, 20th
Coffee Warlord - Anthony Fokker, Air Chief, Netherlands, 20th Century
Coffee Warlord - Carl Menger, Economist, Poland, 20th
Coffee Warlord - Charlemagne, Leader/Ruler, France, Pre-20th
Coffee Warlord - Erwin Rommel, Army Leader, Germany, Post 20th
Coffee Warlord - Henri Dunant, Civil Rights Leader, Switzerland, 20th Century
Coffee Warlord - Henry Morgan, Navy Chief, Jamaica, Pre-20th
Coffee Warlord - Jesus Christ, Religious Leader, Israel, Pre-20th
Coffee Warlord - Socrates, Justice Minister, Greece, Pre-20th
Coffee Warlord - William Shakespeare, Artist, England, Pre 20th
Coffee Warlord - Yasser Arafat, Diplomat, Egypt, 20th


DaddyTorgo - Geographical Location - Fertile Crescent, Iraq, Pre-20th Century
DaddyTorgo - Isaac Newton, Scientist, United Kingdom, Pre-20th Century
DaddyTorgo - Jawaharlal Nehru, Ruler/Leader, India, 20th Century
DaddyTorgo - John Kenneth Galbraith, Economist, United States, 20th
DaddyTorgo - John Marshall, Justice Minister, American, Pre-20th Century
DaddyTorgo - Klemens Wenzel, Prince von Metternich, Chief Diplomat Austria, Pre-20th Century
DaddyTorgo - Martin Luther King Jr., Civil Rights Activist, USA, 20th Century
DaddyTorgo - Martin Luther, Religious Leader, Germany, Pre-20th Century
DaddyTorgo - Mordechai Hod, Air Force Leader, Israel, 20th Century
DaddyTorgo - Themistocles, Naval Chief, Greece, Pre-20th century
DaddyTorgo - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Artist, Austria, Pre-20th


Danny - The Colosseum, Man Made Structure - Italy, Pre 20th Century
Danny - Adolph Hitler, Leader/Ruler, Germany, 20th century
Danny - Alfred Hitchcock, Artist, United States, 20th century
Danny - Amazon Rain Forest, Geographical Location - Brazil, Pre 20th Century
Danny - Aristotle, Scientist, Greece, Pre-20th
Danny - Friedrich Hayek, Economist - Austria, 20th century
Danny - Isoroku Yamamoto, Air Chief, Japan, 20th
Danny - Mahatma Ghandi, Civil Rights Activist, India, 20th
Danny - Michiel de Ruyter, Naval Commander - Netherlands, Pre-20th Century
Danny - Muhammad, Religious Leader, Saudi Arabia, pre-20th
Danny - Pope John Paul II, Chief Diplomat, Poland, 20th century
Danny - Wayne Gretzky, Athlete, Canada, Post 20th century


Galaril - Abraham Lincoln, Leader/Ruler, United States, Pre-20th
Galaril - Ben Franklin, Scientist - America, Pre 20th Century
Galaril - Captain Rene Fronck, Air Chief, France, 20th
Galaril - Darius the Great, Iran , Justice Minister, Pre 20th century
Galaril - Dwight D. Eisenhower, Army Chief, United States, 20th
Galaril - John Stuart Mills, Civil Rights Leader, Great Britain, Pre-20th
Galaril - Joseph Schumpeter,Economist, Moria (Czech Rep.)-Post 20th
Galaril - Mikhail Gorbachev, Diplomat, Russia, 20th
Galaril - Pablo Picasso, Artist, Spain 20th
Galaril - Peter I The Great, Naval Commander-Russia, pre-20th century
Galaril - Saint Patrick, Religious Leader - Ireland, Pre-20th century
Galaril - Statue of Liberty, Manmade Structure, USA, Pre-20th


Izulde - Confucius, Civil Rights Leader, China, Pre-20th Century
Izulde - Galileo Galilei - Scientist - Italy - Pre-20th Century
Izulde - Hammurabi, Justice Minister, Iraq, Pre-20th Century
Izulde - Jim Brown, Athlete, United States, 20th
Izulde - Manfred "The Red Baron" von Richthofen, Air Chief, Germany, 20th Century
Izulde - Mt. Everest, Geographic Location, China, 20th Century
Izulde - Otto von Bismarck, Chief Diplomat, Germany, Pre-20th
Izulde - Queen Isabella - Ruler/Leader - Spain - Pre-20th Century
Izulde - Robert de La Salle - Navy Chief - France - Pre-20th Century
Izulde - Rodrigo "El Cid" Diaz de Vivar - Army Chief - Spain - Pre-20th Century
Izulde - Satoru Iwata - Economist - Japan - 20th Century


Lathum - Bono, Chief Diplomat, Ireland, 20th Century
Lathum - Chanakya, Economist, India, pre-20th
Lathum - Great Barrier Reef, Geographical Location, Australia- 20th Century
Lathum - Great Wall of China, Manmade structure, China, pre-20th
Lathum - John Paul Jones, Naval Chief, United States, Pre-20th century
Lathum - Joseph Smith, Religious Leader, USA, Pre 20th Century
Lathum - Leonardo Da Vinci, Artist, Italy, pre-20th
Lathum - Mao Zedung, Leader/Ruler, China, 20th
Lathum - Nelson Mandela, Civil Rights Activist, South Africa, 20th
Lathum - Roger Bannister, Athlete, United Kingdom, 20th
Lathum - William Wallace, Army Chief, Great Britain, Pre-20th
Lathum - Yuri Gagarin, Air Chief, Russia, 20th


Noop - Alonso Pérez de Guzmán - Navy Chief - Spain - pre 20th
Noop - Harriet Tubman - Civil Rights - Canada - 20th
Noop - Imhotep, Scientist, Egypt, Pre-20th
Noop - James Joyce, Artist, Ireland, 20th Century
Noop - King David, Leader, Israel, Pre-20th Century
Noop - King Solomon, Justice Minister, Israel, Pre-20th
Noop - Oil Fields of Saudi Arabia, Geographical Location, Saudi Arabia, Pre-20th
Noop - Pele, Athlete, Brazil, 20th Century
Noop - Saint Augustine - Religious Leader - Algeria- Pre20th Century
Noop - Saladin, Army Chief, Egypt, Pre-20th
Noop - Xiao Gang - Economist - China - 20th Century


ntndeacon - Alberto Santos, Dumont, Air Chief, Brazil, 20th century
ntndeacon - Andrei Sakarov, Civil Rights Activist, Russia, 20th Century
ntndeacon - Attilla the Hun, Army Chief, Hungary, pre-20th century
ntndeacon - Chi'ang Kai-shek, Leader/Ruler, Taiwan, 20th Century
ntndeacon - Diego Maradona-Athlete-Argentina-20th century
ntndeacon - Guru Nanak Dev--Religious leader--Pakistan--pre 20th century
ntndeacon - Horatio Nelson, Navy Chief, Great Britain, pre-20th century
ntndeacon - Karl Marx, Economist, Germany, pre-20th
ntndeacon - Niels Bohr-Scientist-Denmark-20th century
ntndeacon - Theodore Roosevelt, Chief Diplomat, United States, 20th century
ntndeacon - Tobias Michael Carel Asser, Justice Minister, The Netherlands, 20th century


surtt - Billy Bishop, Air Chief, Canada, 20th Century
Surtt - Charles Ponzi, Economist, Italy, Post-20
surtt - Dalai Lama, Religious Leader, China, Post-20th
Surtt - Ferdinand Magellan, Navy Chief, Portugal, Pre-20
surtt - Julius Cesar, Leader/Ruler, Italy, pre-20th
surtt - Lech Walesa, Civil Rights Activist, Poland, 20th Century
surtt - Louis Pasteur, Scientist, France, Pre-20th
surtt - Napoleon Bonaparte, Army Chief, France, pre-20th
surtt - Sir Winston Churchill, Diplomat, UK, Post-20
Surtt - Vincent van Gogh, Artist, Netherlands, Pre-20th

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry im sure its my pick. I fell asleep for the night at like 9pm last night. Will make my pick on the way to work here or right away once I get in.

[DaddyTorgo]

12.5 - Hannibal Barca, Army Chief, Tunisia (Carthage then), Pre-20th century

[Barkeep49]

I'm completely lost as to where we are in the draft and have no idea when I should be picking.

[larrymcg421]

The 1st post is completely updated. Coffee Warlord is on the clock.

[Coffee Warlord]

12.6 The Colossus, Manmade Structure, Greece, Pre-20th

One of the original 7 wonders of the world. Unfortunately no longer standing, but a gigantic bronze statue greeting ships at the harbor woulda been one helluva sight to see.

[DaddyTorgo]

nice pick CW - if I was going pre-20th century for manmade that was on my shortlist

[Alan T]

12.6 The Colossus, Manmade Structure, Greece, Pre-20th

One of the original 7 wonders of the world. Unfortunately no longer standing, but a gigantic bronze statue greeting ships at the harbor woulda been one helluva sight to see.

And it is absolutely great in Civilization IV!

[Coffee Warlord]

And it is absolutely great in Civilization IV!

Hell yeah, my empire's trade and income will now SKYROCKET.

[larrymcg421]

Izulde picks:

12.7 Vladimir Nabokov - Artist - Russia - 20th Century

[Danny]

12.5 - Hannibal Barca, Army Chief, Tunisia (Carthage then), Pre-20th century

Damn you! You were the only one left who could take an Army Chief and you stole my #1, at least I like my number 2 a lot too

[DaddyTorgo]

Damn you! You were the only one left who could take an Army Chief and you stole my #1, at least I like my number 2 a lot too

hehe. i'd been sitting on hannibal for 4-5 rounds now, but let him ride as i noticed most army chiefs were taken and it was just you+me. Also had a nice 20th century backup.

[DaddyTorgo]

Damn you! You were the only one left who could take an Army Chief and you stole my #1, at least I like my number 2 a lot too

hehe. been sitting on him for 4-5 rounds now. also had some good backups, but i figured i better get him now as i think my manmade structure is pretty "off the beaten path" and i'm confident i can find an athlete who's suitable.

[DaddyTorgo]

stupid IE!

wasn't sure my first one posted

[Danny]

hehe. i'd been sitting on hannibal for 4-5 rounds now, but let him ride as i noticed most army chiefs were taken and it was just you+me. Also had a nice 20th century backup.

It's a really good pick as I was sitting on him for quite a few rounds too, my other guy might be even stronger, but he is not as well known.

[Abe Sargent]

BK then me, right?

[Barkeep49]

Isn't noop before me?

[Danny]

Yes, Noop, BK and then Abe.

[Noop]

Waiting for Larry to confirm a pick of mine.

[larrymcg421]

Replied.

[Noop]

12.8 Internet - Man made Structure - England - 20th Century

[Danny]

A country for that?

[Surtt]

England?

[lordscarlet]

Um. England? Is this some wildly loose connection to Tim Berners-Lee?

[Noop]

The internet is everywhere.

[Abe Sargent]

You should have chosen East Timor.

[larrymcg421]

England is fine because they were pretty instrumental in the development, since they created the first international packet switching network.

As is the case with other debated picks, voters are free to only give credit to that aspect if they so choose.

[lordscarlet]

"The Internet is everywhere." Wow. OK. I buy the logic, but I don't think it's going to help you. :)

[lordscarlet]

I don't think there's any arguing that the Internet was created in the United States. I actually buy Noop's logic more than the packet switching logic. :)

[Noop]

I blocked the chance of someone choosing Big Ben.

[DaddyTorgo]

12.8 Internet - Man made Structure - England - 20th Century

This was on my shortlist of man-made structures. I think you picked a horrible country for it though - I would have gone with Japan where you can argue it's had a huge cultural impact (since you couldn't go with US where it was made)

[Abe Sargent]

Yeah, but i would have given you points for choosing East Timor. I mean hey, in for a penny.

[DaddyTorgo]

doesn't have to be where it was CREATED though

[DaddyTorgo]

i'd say good pick Noop - but a poor choice of country for it I suppose. Although the poor choice of country may benefit me in the long-run.

[Noop]

i'd say good pick Noop - but a poor choice of country for it I suppose. Although the poor choice of country may benefit me in the long-run.

I did it to remove the chance of someone pick the palace or Big Ben; and all other things in England.

[Izulde]

I thought about the Internet myself.

[Abe Sargent]

I did it to remove the chance of someone pick the palace or Big Ben; and all other things in England.

Too bad England is not a country. Now if you mean the UK, then you also block Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and various other islands.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmm - that's not the best reasoning i've heard for "why england" I gotta admit

[Noop]

Too bad England is not a country. Now if you mean the UK, then you also block Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and various other islands.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6507/369043-abe_simpson_large.gif

England is not a country?

[Noop]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/thumb/2/20/Abe_Simpson_Army.jpg/150px-Abe_Simpson_Army.jpg

[lordscarlet]

So, anyway. Good pick Noop. The strategic move for England (blocking) is solid. Perhaps bring it up in the voting thread so people don't have too much of a "WTF" reaction?

[Coffee Warlord]

WTF? :)

[Alan T]

So, anyway. Good pick Noop. The strategic move for England (blocking) is solid. Perhaps bring it up in the voting thread so people don't have too much of a "WTF" reaction?


UK isn't the worst possible choice for this, since this is my field, I'll help Noop out a little bit here (since I already badmouthed two of his previous picks). The UK did not create or invent the internet, however they were part of the first International packet switched networks. Obviously when you talk about International, that means more than one nation can lay claim to it, several countries in Europe as well as the UK helped create an international network.

Obviously ARPAnet was around before this, and was starting to be used by US Military at the time, as well as various discussion that the U.S.S.R had been working on something similar (but I have never found anything other than claims backing that statement up).

So if you consider the Internet as the first International Network, then UK has to be one of a few valid selections for it... as for my vote, I'm not sure that I'll vote this as high as some other selections, but not only because of the location alone.

[Abe Sargent]

Heh.


Come ON BK let's get this wagon train a movin'

[lordscarlet]

UK isn't the worst possible choice for this, since this is my field, I'll help Noop out a little bit here (since I already badmouthed two of his previous picks). The UK did not create or invent the internet, however they were part of the first International packet switched networks. Obviously when you talk about International, that means more than one nation can lay claim to it, several countries in Europe as well as the UK helped create an international network.

Obviously ARPAnet was around before this, and was starting to be used by US Military at the time, as well as various discussion that the U.S.S.R had been working on something similar (but I have never found anything other than claims backing that statement up).

So if you consider the Internet as the first International Network, then UK has to be one of a few valid selections for it... as for my vote, I'm not sure that I'll vote this as high as some other selections, but not only because of the location alone.

By that logic the country that first produced the steel girder could claim any building using such a product? :)

Again, I think it's a valid selection, so I don't want to keep arguing it as though I don't, but I think Noop took the correct stance: The Internet is international and therefore "exists" in many countries. If you're going with "this is the country it was created in" you can't pick anything but the United States, IMO.

[Noop]

I am building my country with resources so if I control the internet or oil who can say their country is better then mine?

However I realize it is not a nation building draft so yeah I expect not to win this but I wanted to show some wit(for lack of a better term) if anything I always learn from these drafts.

[DaddyTorgo]

I am building my country with resources so if I control the internet or oil who can say their country is better then mine?

However I realize it is not a nation building draft so yeah I expect not to win this but I wanted to show some wit(for lack of a better term) if anything I always learn from these drafts.

Actually I like the pick Noop. I just think you'd be better served by saying "The Internet is everywhere" rather than trying to tie it down to any one country.

[DaddyTorgo]

And btw...I enjoy the "wit" that you show during these drafts

[Noop]

Actually I like the pick Noop. I just think you'd be better served by saying "The Internet is everywhere" rather than trying to tie it down to any one country.

I can't pick everywhere so I decided to knockout United Kingdom since England is not a country.

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe we should setup an alliance between Noopzakistan (your country) and DaddyTorgovania (my country)...perhaps their might be benefits for both of us. I mean you can't exactly eat oil...

[Abe Sargent]

Some early evaluations for discussion:

Abe's MVP picks for each rounds:

1. Barkeep's Adam Smith. Very good.

2. Danny's Ghandi

3. Surtt's Dalai Lama - A great 20th century pickup in a category that skews pre-20th for the big names.

4. BK's Moses. As Justice Minster. Very interesting.

5. Izulde's COnfucious. Great value.

6. Abe's John Locke. Biggest and best name in a round of role players.

7. Noop's Saladin. Weak round of role picks and stretches.

8. DaddyTorgo's Martin Luther - Great value this late.

9. CW's Henry Morgan. Good name recognition here.

10. Izulde's Queen Isabella. One of the top rulers still on the board

11. Abe's Michelangelo. One of the best artists of all time in the 11th is great value.



Abe's most ??? pick of each round

1. Noop's Oil pick

2. DT's pick of Galbraith. If you have to google him in the 2nd round...

3. Ntndeacon's Teddy Roosevelt. Much better available.

4. The round of many reaches had many suspect picks. I think 5 picks were reaches. Worst pick? Galaril's JS Mill with John Locke still on the board.

5. Abe's Togo. I took him too soon. too much of a reach.

6. Danny's Hitchcock. WTF?

7. Lathum's Mao, way too many better rulers on the board

8. CW's Arafat. Really? 20th cventury is full of great diplomats with some name recognition that don't have a cloud over their head to take Arafat.

9. Apathetic Lurker - I'm not even sure what he is trying to do with this pick. It's like taking The World as your pick.

10. Lathum's Smith. There are a ton of better pre-20th people running around for religious than Smith.

11. Lathum's Bono. Again, diplomat in 20th century is so deep, you don't have to stretch for a part-time humanitarian.



Enjoy!

[Danny]

The primary form of art in the world today is video (movies, tv, etc...). Hitchcock is considered one of if not the best and most influential in this form of art.

[Abe Sargent]

I read your justification then, I just don't agree that Hitchcock fits in a draft with only 12 artists from across all history. There were better 20th century artists and better USA artists and both to grab.

[Danny]

In regards to video/film though?

[Abe Sargent]

I'd say he was the best choice for 20th century/USA/film available. Probably top three internationally.

[Noop]

Maybe we should setup an alliance between Noopzakistan (your country) and DaddyTorgovania (my country)...perhaps their might be benefits for both of us. I mean you can't exactly eat oil...

There will be peace between our great Nations.

[DaddyTorgo]

There will be peace between our great Nations.

Yay! I might even have some other stuff for you.

*Metternich succeeds again*

[DaddyTorgo]

Well at the point i took galbraith there weren't really a lot of other economists left - Marx was gone, as was the UK. Frankly I wasn't about a "name recognition" pick or I would have gone Greenspan or I guess Friedman, but Galbraith was a much more "cerebral" pick.

Don't worry - I'll provide summaries of all my picks for the voters.

[Danny]

I'd say he was the best choice for 20th century/USA/film available. Probably top three internationally.

Ok, I'll take that then :)

[Noop]

Yay! I might even have some other stuff for you.

*Metternich succeeds again*

Just remember I have the internet and oil. That pretty much makes me an economic giant as well as a military power.

Also the decision to make peace was courtesy of King Solomon and King David.

[Coffee Warlord]

Just remember I have the internet and oil. That pretty much makes me an economic giant as well as a military power.

Also the decision to make peace was courtesy of King Solomon and King David.

You'll be needing to use that money and resources to purchase advanced technology and cultural improvements from the People's Republic of Coffee.

Einstein's work doesn't come cheap, and your people will enjoy spiritual learning and culture courtesy of Christ and Shakespeare.

[DaddyTorgo]

Just remember I have the internet and oil. That pretty much makes me an economic giant as well as a military power.

Also the decision to make peace was courtesy of King Solomon and King David.

you have two kings?

do you also have Three Princes? :D

[Izulde]

Don't forget, Izludia owns the air space of the world and we're going to govern space as well. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

You'll be needing to use that money and resources to purchase advanced technology and cultural improvements from the People's Republic of Coffee.

Einstein's work doesn't come cheap, and your people will enjoy spiritual learning and culture courtesy of Christ and Shakespeare.

Einstein doesn't have any work that's his own. Isaac Newton has a copyright on all derivatives of his life's work - duly registered on the Internet. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

Don't forget, Izludia owns the air space of the world and we're going to govern space as well. :D

you can't militarize space. there's treaties against that.

[DaddyTorgo]

*Metternich would like to announce the formation of what he proposes to call "The World Congress " as a forum for nations to come together and discuss concerns peacefully.*

[Izulde]

you can't militarize space. there's treaties against that.

Otto von Bismarck can find the loopholes in your silly treaties.

[Coffee Warlord]

you can't militarize space. there's treaties against that.

Socrates will make a case that it belongs to us.

[Noop]

There is no advance tech without Oil. Enjoy sending those messages on foot or horse. I am the Oil barron and I also control the information.

*Evil Laugh*

[Noop]

Oh as for science Imhotep is the father of it all. I have it all covered baby.

[Coffee Warlord]

Anthony Fokker built advanced weapons of war with some lumber, a machine gun, and a few lengths of canvas. Imagine what he'll cook up with Einstein's ideas. Then comes Rommel and Morgan unleashing the whoop ass.

Submit.

[Noop]

My country has food through a trade agreement with DT's country the rest of the tech are not possible without Oil and knowledge which is derived from Imhotep.

*Evil Cackle*

[Abe Sargent]

Yeah, you'll all have space programs and oil fields after I conquer your asses with Alexander the Great and Musahi Miyamoto. Miyamoto wrote one of the enduring military strategy works of all time, in addition to being a poet, artist, and the greatest warrior of all time.

Plus, just wait until you see my ruler/leader....

;)

[Coffee Warlord]

Einstein has the formula for freakin' ENERGY.

Enjoy that oil. Can't do nothing with it, 'cause we control power.

[Coffee Warlord]

Plus, just wait until you see my ruler/leader....

The Holy Roman Emperor is already not impressed. :)

[Abe Sargent]

The Holy Roman Emperor is already not impressed. :)

Charlemagne wasn't even the best ruler for France, so suck it, Starbucks ;)

[Noop]

Einstein has the formula for freakin' ENERGY.

Enjoy that oil. Can't do nothing with it, 'cause we control power.

Tsk. Tsk. We will not be a land of Coffee or Starbucks!!! Oil for your tanks, for your machinery, for your aspirin, for everything.

[Coffee Warlord]

Charlemagne wasn't even the best ruler for France, so suck it, Starbucks ;)

You're right, he wasn't the best ruler for France. He was the best ruler for France, Germany, Italy... :)

[Coffee Warlord]

Tsk. Tsk. We will not be a land of Coffee or Starbucks!!! Oil for your tanks, for your machinery, for your aspirin, for everything.

We have Jesus. He turns water into gasoline. :)

[Noop]

We have Jesus. He turns water into gasoline. :)

No evidence he ever did that so you will be a land of drunkards.

[Abe Sargent]

You're right, he wasn't the best ruler for France. He was the best ruler for France, Germany, Italy... :)

Actually, I don;t think Charlemagne was a bad choice for r/l. I just thought he was maybe a round too early, but not bad. I can;t criticize you too much.

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL

I think it'd be awesome if we continued on with this alliances thing afterward and tried to imagine such a world

[Abe Sargent]

Izulde - If you don;t pick the manmade structure I expect you too, then I will tease you for it incessantly.

[Coffee Warlord]

Actually, I don;t think Charlemagne was a bad choice for r/l. I just thought he was maybe a round too early, but not bad. I can;t criticize you too much.

One thing I've learned in this draft. It's REALLY hard to predict who/what people do and do not think of. There were several picks I thought I was totally safe stashing away, and several utterly obvious ones that I couldn't believe fell so deep. I actually agree he was prolly a round or 2 early, but I was getting a little punchy by round 4 with some of the picks.

[Abe Sargent]

The primary form of art in the world today is video (movies, tv, etc...).

I'd say its writing with all of the blogs and stuff running around.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'd say its writing with all of the blogs and stuff running around.

Ah, then you agree, good old Billy Shakespeare wins again!

[Izulde]

Nabokov is the one who understands the complexities of this world. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

There's a man-made structure I don't want to take but I feel almost compelled to take. And then one that I really want to take but I don't think would get as much love, although in the "Noop-style" it'd be much better as a piece of my nation.

[Coffee Warlord]

Nabokov is the one who understands the complexities of this world. :D

Dude, have you WATCHED Doctor Who!?!? Shakespeare's words broke out witches from another dimension! :D

[Surtt]

You'll be needing to use that money and resources to purchase advanced technology and cultural improvements from the People's Republic of Coffee.

Einstein's work doesn't come cheap, and your people will enjoy spiritual learning and culture courtesy of Christ and Shakespeare.

Nice name.....

I think Surttland has a nice ring to it.

So what it everyone else calling their countries?

[Abe Sargent]

I prefer Abe's Country of Happiness and Joy

[Noop]

Nooptopia is a fine.

[Noop]

I prefer Abe's Country of Happiness and Joy

So you and Danny will be allies then?

[Danny]

I'd say its writing with all of the blogs and stuff running around.

I think definitely not. People (not talking about people here) as a population are much more influenced and affected by video I think.

[Noop]

Abe and Danny will be at war then? Which ever of you offers the best deal to my country will be protected.

[Abe Sargent]

There are states other than war and peace.

[Danny]

Aristotle is 2400 years old, he has invented time travel, and has utilized the power of the sun and water to power our entire country at a rate 100x more efficient and powerful than what exists in the world today.

[Surtt]

There is no advance tech without Oil. Enjoy sending those messages on foot or horse. I am the Oil barron and I also control the porn.

*Evil Laugh*

Fixed that.

[Abe Sargent]

The student shall become the teacher as Alexander reveals his anti-time travel you can not touch me belt, and slices Aristotle in half with Miyamoto's katana.

Okay, can we stop playing this game now?

[Danny]

For army leader I am going to take Apocalypse and unleash the power of the four horsemen on you guys.

[Noop]

There are states other than war and peace.

You can peacefully submit to my aggressive and war like country.

*evil laugh*

Okay maybe I won't invade you but be mindful.