Werewolf XV: Round 'Em Up And Hang 'Em!

[Fouts]

I can't imagine it would be multiple times. That would be pretty damn powerful.

Thats what I was thinking, so losing the witness is no big deal.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dubb's post was very creative (adding knife and shadows). Something a bad guy would do to save his hide.Equally something a good guy might do to "role play" the reveal -- I've done it myself in the past. I hesitate to reach any conclusions about who is right or wrong here.

[jeff061]

I am leaning towards voting for Saldana, but I'm giving time for him to say his piece.

[dubb93]

My post was creative b/c I used the same words that were in the PM from Neon. Give him the credit for the words, not me.

[jeff061]

With that in mind, I see Neon saying that someone entered the house and fled, rather than sitting in the yard and running away.

[dubb93]

I can't imagine it would be multiple times. That would be pretty damn powerful.

Well since it says nowhere that it is a 1 time power, and I posted that I thought I could use it multiple times and Neon made a post after that and didn't make mention of it I have to assume I can use it multiple times.

[hoopsguy]

I'll be pretty happy if we only have three outlaws, but it would not surprise me in the least if there were four from the start. So make that ratio 9-4. Now the question becomes is how does RealDeal play in this, given that he is in lockup? Would he count in terms of defending against the outlaws in a one/one setup? So if it becomes 5-4 is the score really 4-4-1 and the game is over?

After taking a longer look at this I'm happy to stand corrected on the game being over tonight. Which makes me a little less suspicious of an attempted power-play by the outlaws coming out with a fake reveal. That steers me towards trusting Saldana over Dubb, although I'm still not at all certain here.

In fact, if the witness is a one-time only protect then we really don't have any overwhelming need to protect him versus anyone else tonight. I guess he would still have value to the outlaws as a known villager, which makes the voting patterns a little bit easier. But the same has been true of Bek from the get-go and he is still around. Not sure why one of them would be any more attractive than the other for the outlaws to gun for this evening.

I think our biggest asset right now is that the outlaws do not seem to have any information on who the sheriff is. I'm hoping that is the case even after he has been able to successfully defend.

Also, anyone have any ideas why we heard shots last night but not on the other night that the outlaws did not get a kill?

[jeff061]

Yeah I see it doesn't say that, but two guarenteed ID's? I can't see that being allowed.

[jeff061]

It's not a powerplay though hoops. Its the only choice they have to discount a witness they know saw them. The odds don't really matter.

[dubb93]

Which makes me a little less suspicious of an attempted power-play by the outlaws coming out with a fake reveal. That steers me towards trusting Saldana over Dubb, although I'm still not at all certain here.


Yea, if I were an outlaw and I'm not I would do the same thing Saldana did. He logged on, saw that he was witnessed trying to kill RPI-Fan last night and that I hadn't posted about it yet. He had no choice but to power-play. Otherwise he goes to work, I get off work and post what I saw and he dies easily tonight.

This way he gets a chance to kill me off tonight, kill someone else tonight and then die tomorrow. That is a HUGE difference. DO NOT WASTE A VOTE ON ME. SALDANA IS THE FREAKIN OUTLAW. All you guys have is that you were suspecious of me for no reason and jumped the gun sending in 3 votes for me b/f any new evidence was presented. Then when the evidence came in and the outlaw supported your vote from WAY too early you lynch the witness.

[Passacaglia]

It doesn't seem like the witness is a one-and-done, thing. It seems like the witness can do it every night, which means we need to be really sure we get the right one here.

[saldana]

As for Saldana's fake reveal. He had no choice. I assume he got a similar PM to the one I got last night. That his kill failed and that I spotted him on his way out. He looked around the thread, saw I hadn't been on yet and figured he could atleast give it a shot. Hell, it probably not only saves him, but then people the rest of the game as I have seen no indication my role is a 1 time use and Neon has been on today and didn't correct my thinking.

talk about the pot calling the kettle black. i witnessed you going to RPI's, and knew that as soon as i got on today, you would have said you saw ME going in because you are caught. dead to rights.

as far as your multi-use ability, sure, make up a concept that gives you continuing value to try to sway the vote away from yourself. honestly, i am surprised that anyone that has played other WW games didnt see through this ploy as well.. when has the witness ever been a multi use role?!...you are just grabbing at straws because you have no other outs.

all i can say is that Dubb was a suspect way before last night...he was almost lynched yesterday. to the people that have voted for me at this point i ask you this: after the amount of suspicion there was on dubb prior to this morning, what basis do you have to believe him now. the only thing questionable i have done to this point in this game is vote for Bek after he killed our seer. a move i quickly changed and apologized for. my question to dubb is, why didnt you get pissed at bek and vote for him too? imo, that is exactly what an angry VILLAGER would have done, because our chances of winning were seriously decreased because of that.

as far as for using my role last night...i thought it was the opportune moment, we NEED to get an outlaw today, and i was doing what i have done in every game i have played to this point...protecting the village. i said i was a villager when we started, and i will say it again now.

i am not gonna rant and rave, because i am not desperate to get the view off me. if you do kill me tonight, then you will know i was telling the truth from the beginning, and dubb will follow me to the grave tommorow.

[Passacaglia]

Looking at the events that happened shortly after night actions finished, it seems fishy that there were already votes for dubb before saldana stepped up -- just to help make sure dubb was the prime target before the controversy even arose. I'm leaning toward believing dubb, and we need to protect him over the night.

VOTE SALDANA

[jeff061]

Don't buy it.

Vote Saldana

Of course this is where you wish you had a Werewolf behavioral matrix from all previous games :). No matter the outcome, a mental note's been made.

[Passacaglia]

Don't buy it.

Vote Saldana

Of course this is where you wish you had a Werewolf behavioral matrix from all previous games :). No matter the outcome, a mental note's been made.

Oy -- maybe I only feel this way because I'm a Werewolf newb, but it seems like this game should be independent of everything -- past games, real life, hattrick, etc. Of course, I can understand why that never happens!

[jeff061]

Of course it should, but different people act different ways, you can't just forget about it.

[Schmidty]

Man, I have so much to catch up on, yet again.....

[Mr. Wednesday]

Oy -- maybe I only feel this way because I'm a Werewolf newb, but it seems like this game should be independent of everything -- past games, real life, hattrick, etc. Of course, I can understand why that never happens!I dislike when personal stuff happens, but previous gameplay definitely carries over (in terms of assessing people), and whatever issues there might be with it from a roleplaying standpoint, it's pretty much impossible to prevent.

[jeff061]

Well I wasn't talking about personal stuff, I meant more along the lines of being able to tell when they are telling the truth vrs lying.

[hoopsguy]

Yep, I happen to agree with Jeff that you do tend to get a read on people that you have participated with in past games.

I'm going to Vote Dubb at this point, partly because of this reason. And hope that my read is right. But another part of it, to be honest, is that I don't have much of a feel for Saldana to help me determine good/bad intent.

[jeff061]

Saldana's post seems forced to me. And Dubb's description of what happened last night seems more in line with what I would expect. I don't think timing matters at all, both of them would of posted this whenever they got on.

Just so people know what I was thinking in case I'm wrong :). Nothing solid, just a feel.

[dubb93]

Saldana's post seems forced to me. And Dubb's description of what happened last night seems more in line with what I would expect. I don't think timing matters at all, both of them would of posted this whenever they got on.


Exactly. Saldana's post is forced. If I was an angry villager why would I vote Bek? What exactly did he do that was so wrong? It was a bandwagon, is he talking about the next night? Why would I vote for a guy that is an obvious villager on night 2?

Anyway you take it Saldana is playing the hand he was dealt. He is an outted outlaw. A vote for me is a very big mistake. Saldana seems to forget he was public enemy number 2, while everyone seemed to suspect me as #1. I'm willing to admit I had votes on me b/f any evidence, that I was being suspected hard(couldn't tell you why tho), but Saldana seems to forgetting he was being mentioned in the same sentence as me.

OOC: Off to lift weights, be back on later tonight. Make the right choice guys.

[saldana]

Saldana's post seems forced to me. And Dubb's description of what happened last night seems more in line with what I would expect. I don't think timing matters at all, both of them would of posted this whenever they got on.

Just so people know what I was thinking in case I'm wrong :). Nothing solid, just a feel.


what about what i had to say was forced? i can scream and rant like dubb if you want, but what would the point be, you all are gonna decide who you think is telling the truth based on what you know of us. we were suspicious of dubb before, and his actions, as witnessed by me, confirmed that..just because he threw stuff in about a knife? big deal, they shot ardent in the face, so how is his knife statement damning? i would like to know what you are basing your feel on with me, i havent said anything or done anything in this game that wasnt in the village's best interests (at least not that a bunch of others havent done as well....sorry henry)

[jeff061]

It's not the knife and it's not the lack of screaming on your part. I also wonder if the witness would come out if his target already had 4 votes on him. That's less definitive, just a thought.

Anything that happened before today is nothing, I've had suspicion thrown on me to.

[saldana]

I'm willing to admit I had votes on me b/f any evidence

and exactly what evidence was there against me. there was alot of suspicion being tossed around yesterday, some of it was at me, i have never pretended any different, but no one actually said "i think saldana is an outlaw", like they did for you.

[jeff061]

And me, and Blade, and Ardent.

Now, I'm not really sure either way, but lets keep things in perspective. I don't like Dubb agreeing with me though :).

[jeff061]

Oh and Hoops is always right about this shit :D.

Edit: That's another point, brought up by Dubb, he did try to get input on when the Witness role should be used just after Sack's death. Coincidence?

[saldana]

It's not the knife and it's not the lack of screaming on your part. I also wonder if the witness would come out if his target already had 4 votes on him. That's less definitive, just a thought.




and what would you have thought if dubb logged on this morning with 4 votes already against him and said that he witnessed me...you would have thought he was desperate to clear himself, which is exactly what he is now.

I outed myself because i wanted to prevent that from happening. i also acted under the assumption that my role was a once and done ability...i have nothing from NC that gives me reason to believe otherwise, so why would i have evidence against someone and not use it. that doesnt make a lot of sense to me. so far Dubb has given nothing to prove that i am lying. but if you want to believe him, go right ahead

and what would you have said if i came out later in the day, after dubb had already tried to save his ass by lying about seeing me? you would have said that I was the liar...so basically, you have me in a no win scenario.

[jeff061]

Neither of you have given anything to prove each others lying or this would be easy.

It's the little things. It's believing that Neon would of had the Outlaw enter the house and run out, it's the fact Dubb asked about the witness very early on, it's the tone(not volume) of your first post. No its not proof, but it's enough of a slant for me to make a choice.

And like I said, the 4 vote thing is an afterthought, I'm not really considering it.

[saldana]

Neither of you have given anything to prove each others lying or this would be easy.

It's the little things. It's believing that Neon would of had the Outlaw enter the house and run out, it's the fact Dubb asked about the witness very early on, it's the tone(not volume) of your first post. No its not proof, but it's enough of a slant for me to make a choice.

And like I said, the 4 vote thing is an afterthought, I'm not really considering it.


fine, to me, after the seer and the baron were out of the game the first night, and the judge went to jail, i thought it best to NOT give any hints about my role, so the outlaws would ignore me....giving hints about your powers and making yourself a target is not a strategy i would use, much less give someone credit for using, especially in the position we were in at that point...hiding and saving yourself versus making it obvious who you are and painting a target on yourself so you cant help the team.

[jeff061]

Those weren't hints, I don't know how anyone could interpret them as such. That was someone asking for advice on how to use his power, without letting anyone know who he was. Seems like a decent enough idea to me. I don't think he expected those comments to be used in this form.

[Fouts]

jeff, I can't tell if it's you or dubb under the gun right now.

[Fouts]

jeff, as a villager, you should be happy with a 1 for 1. I don't get it

[jeff061]

Yeah I know, but the more I think about it the more confident I get :). Saldana's arguments are either irrelevant or don't make sense.

jeff, as a villager, you should be happy with a 1 for 1. I don't get it

What do you mean? I'm happier with a 1 for 0.

[Fouts]

They make sense to me. In fact, both sides do. I can see where each of them are coming from, but you are confusing me.

[jeff061]

but you are confusing me

And you me.

[dubb93]

I'm going to come right out and say it since I'm leaving for the night. Saldana is lying and after you kill me tonight and him tomorrow go for Fouts. He has done nothing right this game and is so for killing me and doing a 1 for 1(which is only good for the outlaws as it lowers the villagers numbers by 2 b/f we kill an outlaw) that he has to be in line with Saldana.

Jeff, I really mean this, stick to your vote. Remember what I said in the PM's when I duked you? I was honest and straight forward with my reasons and apologized, and just like that I give you my word that I am the witness. I swear on anything you want to, Saldana is the one not telling the truth, I don't know how I can be any more blunt. We need to win this game guys, this MAY be my last time online b/f the deadline as I'm heading out for a poker party, don't let my work hours influence this vote(IE Saldana being able to post b/f I could).

[saldana]

don't let my work hours influence this vote(IE Saldana being able to post b/f I could).


you are the one asking for your work hours TO influence the vote by saying people shouldnt believe me because i was first...how many ways do you want it, because right now you are asking for both. my work hours forced me to post early this morning, yours prevented you from doing that...not my fault.

[Fouts]

He has done nothing right this game and is so for killing me and doing a 1 for 1(which is only good for the outlaws as it lowers the villagers numbers by 2 b/f we kill an outlaw) that he has to be in line with Saldana.


Hey, thanks for the compliment. I am not "so for killing" you. I'm for killing both of you, because we have a guarantee of finding an outlaw. That is all, nothing personal.

[hoopsguy]

Oh and Hoops is always right about this shit .

I miss my share, just like everyone in these games. But I spend enough time obsessing over the games that I am right once in awhile. Like my first werewolf accusation, when I came into the creature game and accused you out of the gate :cool:

I wish I had a little better feel for this game - but it is damn hard reading anything out of the votes up to this point. I'm at least glad that this one is being contested and forcing people to stake out positions with something on the line. Hope we can get that 1-0 scenario.

[saldana]

i am pretty surprised that no one else seems to notice that dubb is trying to manipulate facts to his advantage...the "i can use my power multiple times" gimmick is ridiculous, and has no support.

he wants you all to doubt me because i have to leave early for work, but not hold it against him that he didnt post until later

his supporter jeff doesnt think i should be able to bring into play the fact that i have never lied in a werewolf game, but apparently his prior game's activity with dubb are admissible

and his "i asked questions about when the witness should use their role" looks more to me like he was trying to suggest that the witness does something early, thus depriving us (the villagers) of yet another of our tools.

all i see from dubb is alot of double speak and double standards. i have been straight up since the first post.

[Fouts]

I gotta run for a bit. Just want to state I am not pro-saldana, or pro-dubb. I am for killing both to get an outlaw. As a villager, it is worth it for me. I think the witness would agree with that. He knows by outing himself he is signing his death warrant.

[jeff061]

Everyone lies in Werewolf games Saldana, if you haven't you will.
Dubb, bringing up the duking is not a way to convince me ;).

In any case, I'd like to see someone back Saldana, I'm having problems finding a reason to, so hopefully someone else can. I don't want to bandwagon on him or I wouldn't of waited for him to say his piece.

his supporter jeff doesnt think i should be able to bring into play the fact that i have never lied in a werewolf game, but apparently his prior game's activity with dubb are admissible

Dubb talking about the witness role early in the game directly effects this. People being suspicious of him without a good reason does not.

[saldana]

I gotta run for a bit. Just want to state I am not pro-saldana, or pro-dubb. I am for killing both to get an outlaw. As a villager, it is worth it for me. I think the witness would agree with that. He knows by outing himself he is signing his death warrant.


and getting an outlaw is what i said earlier is the most important thing for us today, that is what i have tried to guarantee by outing myself, and not giving dubb a chance to lie his way out of the noose.


and for those of you that are buying the whole "i can use my powers twice" bit, that idea was conveniently brought up by Dubb's Champion, Jeff in post 461, 18 minutes before Dubb posted his retaliatory accusation of me, and then started expounding upon his value.

[jeff061]

Maybe you should look before me, I didn't come up with the idea. I forget who did.

[jeff061]

And maybe you should mention that I believed you and voted for Dubb initially. If I'm wrong it's got nothing to do with loyalties.

[jeff061]

I see now, you mis-read my post 461, which was in support of you.

At the time I didn't know outlaws were told of the witness. I said if you were lying the witness would speak up, and since he hadn't used his power yet he could tonight. I didn't know at the time the outlaws were notified when the witness used his power.

[dubb93]

Ight, poker party got pushed back about 30 minutes so I got some more time...

Dubb, bringing up the duking is not a way to convince me

No, maybe not, but that was the only other time I've given my word in a game of werewolf, that if I was wrong I would explain my action to you. I was wrong and I did. I once again give you my word that I am the witness.

buying the whole "i can use my powers twice" bit

I'm not sure who brought that up, but I saw it and it kinda clicked that in most werewolf games it says "This is a one time use power." In this game it didn't say that in the game rules or the PM about my role. Prehaps I can use it more than once. I posted that I could before Neon posted that he was moving the deadline back and he didn't comment on it.

I gotta run for a bit. Just want to state I am not pro-saldana, or pro-dubb. I am for killing both to get an outlaw. As a villager, it is worth it for me. I think the witness would agree with that. He knows by outing himself he is signing his death warrant.

I'm willing to give in to the fact that by outting myself I'm not making it to the end, but in no way am I for a one for one. Simply, you lynch me tonight you lose a villager and then you lose a villager to the outlaws tonight, THEN you kill the first outlaw, then they kill someone else, THEN you have a shot at another one. I like it better killing an outlaw tonight, they kill someone, then we have another shot at one someone tomorrow. Makes alot more sense then just killing us both till you get the witness.

and getting an outlaw is what i said earlier is the most important thing for us today

good one outlaw.

[RPI-Fan]

Arghhhhhhhhh... SO TOUGH!

Vote is staying, for now...

[jeff061]

and his "i asked questions about when the witness should use their role" looks more to me like he was trying to suggest that the witness does something early, thus depriving us (the villagers) of yet another of our tools.

That doesn't make any sense.

Going just on Saldana's posts I'm quite confident in my vote.

[kingfc22]

Going into today I had dubb, saldana, and fouts on top of my list. After reading what has transpired today I'm going to vote for saldana and hope for the best.

Vote Saldana

If we are right then I think Fouts is the next logical target. If not, then dubb must die.

[RPI-Fan]

BTW... I believe I was the one who first brought up the multiple-use witness.

Post #449, BEFORE #461

So I don't think it's out of the question the idea could be come up with by either the witness or the non-witness.

I really just don't know what to do. I have a very strong suspicion of another Outlaw, and would LOVE to vote him tonight because I am actually more than 50% sure, like I would be with dubb/saldana. I think I will post my "Théorie Grande" right around midnight tonight, I think, as I will probably be gone in the morning.

I'm just so stuck right now...

[jeff061]

Well I will say this is the most confident I've efver been without concrete proof backing me up.

Bottom line is I see things lining up with Dubb and nothing with Saldana. I also question him trying to make me look like an ally to Dubb, I think(hope) I've at the very least made my thoughts clear.

[RPI-Fan]

Well I will say this is the most confident I've efver been without concrete proof backing me up.

Bottom line is I see things lining up with Dubb and nothing with Saldana. I also question him trying to make me look like an ally to Dubb, I think(hope) I've at the very least made my thoughts clear.

So, you're on the "saldana is an Outlaw" boat? For my benefit, would you mind going through as thoroughly as possible, your reasons?

[saldana]

That doesn't make any sense.

Going just on Saldana's posts I'm quite confident in my vote.


you interpreted it as "he was trying to get advice on how to use his role"

i interpreted it as "he was trying to subtly suggest to the witness that he should use his role"

as far as post 461, it does appear that i misread your post, but dubb has already admitted that was the inspiration for his statements....just an intersting convenience.

as far as your confidence goes, there really isnt anything else i have to say except i cant recall anyone ever fighting so hard for another person, that was one vote away from a lynch the day before... some of us thought dubb was bad yesterday, i confirmed that, you are fiercely trying to protect him and fighting his fight for him, and then saying that my posts are the basis for your believing him. if this isnt you trying to start a bandwagon, i dont know what is.

[dubb93]

and his "i asked questions about when the witness should use their role" looks more to me like he was trying to suggest that the witness does something early, thus depriving us (the villagers) of yet another of our tools.

I must have missed this, but I just saw it in your post Jeff. I can't believe Saldana would say something stupid like this. I brought it up b/c I have never been the witness, our only seer was dead, and I have enough werewolf experience to ask a serious question and blend it in, which I did by commenting on ALL of the roles. I never really got a good answer to the question which I would have liked, but just thought I would further prove how crazy some of Saldana's points have been.

Seriously, trying to use his voting of Bek early on day 2 after Bek had just outted himself as the duke role, and trying to make it seem like an angry villager. Yes he made a mistake, but no you don't vote him, that is just stupid. Never in this game have I done anything that stupid.

[saldana]

and i took my vote for bek back and admitted that it was stupid...i guess you have never made a mistake in this game either?

[dubb93]

and i took my vote for bek back and admitted that it was stupid...i guess you have never made a mistake in this game either?

I've never said that I've never made a mistake in this game, but I don't think anyone is going to buy the angry villager thing you are playing off man.

I can say I've never once cast a vote for a known, outted villager.

[jeff061]

Saldana, I get what you were trying to say. But ths is what I don't get...what does it matter when the witness goes into action? How does it help the outlaws if they use it early? It HURTS them. The outlaws would want him to wait so they have a better shot of killing him first.

RPI:
1: The day after we lost the seer Dubbs was asking about when the witness should be put into action
2: Saldana said the outlaw never entered the building, just ran away when he heard shots. Dub said he saw him enter the building. I find Dubb's description more to what I would expect.
3: Saldana's posts in general. The first one sounded forced, and since he's been VERY much on the offensive, Trying to discredit others rather than proove himself

Like I said, nothing concrete. But I can't find anything against Dubb. I'm hoping another set of eyes does.

[jeff061]

some of us thought dubb was bad yesterday, i confirmed that, you are fiercely trying to protect him and fighting his fight for him, and then saying that my posts are the basis for your believing him. if this isnt you trying to start a bandwagon, i dont know what is.

You attacking me also makes you look guilty, you should be trying to prove your case not discredit neutrals. What does other people suspecting him for the same reasons Blade, Ardent and I were suspected have to do with this?

if this isnt you trying to start a bandwagon, i dont know what is.

Generally you don't initially support the guy you are bandwagoning against.

[dubb93]

Like I said, nothing concrete. But I can't find anything against Dubb. I'm hoping another set of eyes does.

Just please don't let those eyes be fouts. I can't say it enough how much I believe he is in line with the outlaws.

[saldana]

Saldana, I get what you were trying to say. But ths is what I don't get...what does it matter when the witness goes into action? How does it help the outlaws if they use it early? It HURTS them. The outlaws would want him to wait so they have a better shot of killing him first.

RPI:
1: The day after we lost the seer Dubbs was asking about when the witness should be put into action
2: Saldana said the outlaw never entered the building, just ran away when he heard shots. Dub said he saw him enter the building. I find Dubb's description more to what I would expect.
3: Saldana's posts in general. The first one sounded forced, and since he's been VERY much on the offensive, Trying to discredit others rather than proove himself

Like I said, nothing concrete. But I can't find anything against Dubb. I'm hoping another set of eyes does.

in response to point 2, so you are saying that the sheriff was waiting INSIDE RPI's house....and then he missed with two shots from INSIDE. yeah...that makes alot more sense than the sheriff waiting outside and firing shots at a shape he saw moving toward the house in the dark.

and for point 3, you are saying i was forced (not sure what that means), and then overly agressive...the only people i have been "trying to discredit" are the outlaw that i saw try to kill RPI and the guy that is trying to railroad me on the outlaw's behalf.

[saldana]

You attacking me also makes you look guilty, you should be trying to prove your case not discredit neutrals.


i love the double standard yet again....i say you are helping dubb against me, but dubb has accused fouts numerous times, and he has hardly said anything, but that isnt incriminating.

[RPI-Fan]

Argh... I read Dubb's "What Should the Witness Do?" Post for the first time since it was originally posted, and am more confident that is the kind of thing the witness would do... re-reading the whole thread again for more hints, also.

Dubb also, in that same post, suggested we dump the judge -- that is one thing I absolutely can NOT see an Outlaw doing, as the judge was very useful to them. Overall, saldana's votes have been more of "throwing it out there" style, trying to get a bandwagon going on villagers, while dubb's haven't been that same way.

I'm VERY hesistant to vote off the guy who FIRST claimed to be the witness, but as much as it pains me to do so:

Unvote dubb93

Vote saldana

[saldana]

oh yeah, i forgot about Dubb's KNIFE revalation...that would mean that the sheriff missed twice with his gun against a guy that would have had to close into arms reach before he became dangerous. so at less than 3 feet, the sheriff missed 2 shots....oh hell yeah...that makes total sense to me...we should definitely believe dubb's version of the events.

[jeff061]

It's narrative not realism. I'd guess the reason a knife and you entering the building would be mentioned is to leave no doubt as to what you were doing. The witness is a 100% accurate role, not a hint role.

What you stated in your initial post leaves the door wide open to interpretation. Heard shots, never entered house, fled.

[saldana]

Argh... I read Dubb's "What Should the Witness Do?" Post for the first time since it was originally posted, and am more confident that is the kind of thing the witness would do... re-reading the whole thread again for more hints, also.

Dubb also, in that same post, suggested we dump the judge -- that is one thing I absolutely can NOT see an Outlaw doing, as the judge was very useful to them. Overall, saldana's votes have been more of "throwing it out there" style, trying to get a bandwagon going on villagers, while dubb's haven't been that same way.

I'm VERY hesistant to vote off the guy who FIRST claimed to be the witness, but as much as it pains me to do so:

Unvote dubb93

Vote saldana

considering you were the leader of the anti dubb campaign yesterday, i guess i should go put my best suit on to save the undertaker the trouble...you thought he was 100% outlaw 24 hours ago, now you are gonna kill me, who has done nothing wrong....i just dont get it.

[jeff061]

I read Dubb's "What Should the Witness Do?" Post for the first time since it was originally posted, and am more confident that is the kind of thing the witness would do....

This is what put me over the top as well. It's the only thing we have not tainted by today's situation.

considering you were the leader of the anti dubb campaign yesterday, i guess i should go put my best suit on to save the undertaker the trouble...you thought he was 100% outlaw 24 hours ago, now you are gonna kill me, who has done nothing wrong....i just dont get it.

Because somethings are more accurate than hunches.

[dubb93]

but dubb has accused fouts numerous times, and he has hardly said anything, but that isnt incriminating.

Fouts is not only defending an outlaw but is willing to accept a 1 for 1 in the case that I am the witness(which I am). That is unacceptable for the villagers. We lose 2 villagers before we kill you, then lose another 1 before we have a shot at another outlaw. Not worth it, and I'm not willing to accept it.

[RPI-Fan]

considering you were the leader of the anti dubb campaign yesterday, i guess i should go put my best suit on to save the undertaker the trouble...you thought he was 100% outlaw 24 hours ago, now you are gonna kill me, who has done nothing wrong....i just dont get it.

"Done nothing wrong" from the "haven't slipped up" point of view, sure.

I'd love to switch my vote back to dubb... please give me the ammo to do so!

[dubb93]

Sorry guys, poker party calls. I'll be back later, vote Saldana he's the outlaw. There might not be much evidence of that other than taking my word, but I believe if you look through the thread and compare my actions to his prior to today you will find the answer you need.

[Fouts]

Going into today I had dubb, saldana, and fouts on top of my list. After reading what has transpired today I'm going to vote for saldana and hope for the best.

Vote Saldana

If we are right then I think Fouts is the next logical target. If not, then dubb must die.

Huh? How am I the next target? I say we have a double lynching - saldana and dubb! We guarantee an outlaw.

[Fouts]

Fouts is not only defending an outlaw but is willing to accept a 1 for 1 in the case that I am the witness(which I am). That is unacceptable for the villagers. We lose 2 villagers before we kill you, then lose another 1 before we have a shot at another outlaw. Not worth it, and I'm not willing to accept it.

Dude, I am not defending anyone. As I said, we should you lynch you both.

[jeff061]

As I said, we should you lynch you both.

I'm not following this. I think there are only two outcomes, and that would be the bad one.

[Fouts]

BTW, any thought of my changing my vote to saldana went out the window when you accused me Dubb. I am a villager. Now I suspect you more for all the finger pointing. What a fiery way to go down.

[Poli]

Just watching: Umm, when is voting over?

[jeff061]

Midnight today.

[saldana]

"Done nothing wrong" from the "haven't slipped up" point of view, sure.

I'd love to switch my vote back to dubb... please give me the ammo to do so!

i dont know what else to say. i hid my ability until it was time to use it imo... you want to use my voting record against me...what did we have to go on in any of those votes but hunches. you had your hunch against him yesterday, and the "how to use my role" post has been up for days...honestly, how many games has dubb played in and he doesnt know how the witness role works?!!! other than that, all he has done is say "saldana is an outlaw, i am the witness"...what proof has he offered against me...none that i can see, but with the help of jeff, he has managed to turn the vote against me. i cant prove i am the witness other than pointing out the flaws in Dubbs story about what happened last night, which i did above.

as far as the point that dubb posted about jailing the judge first, so he must be a villager....i posted about the fact that i am the witness first...so using jeff's logic, i must be the witness.

the only other thing i can point out, is that dubb and jeff have been using my statements as "evidence" against me, but since jeff has been attacking me more than dubb has, dubb hasnt had to defend himself at all, jeff is doing that too, so i have no choice but to keep posting in my own defense, which they then use as more "evidence".

[jeff061]

Yeah cause you know, the Outlaws are going to put two necks on the block to extend the life of one for a day.

[Fouts]

I'm not following this. I think there are only two outcomes, and that would be the bad one.

How is that bad? Either way we get an outlaw. Isn't that what we want?

[jeff061]

Um, what we want is to get an Outlaw without killing an innocent. The worse thing that could happen is we kill an innocent tonight and then kill the Outlaw tomorrow. Which is what you want?

[Fouts]

Yeah cause you know, the Outlaws are going to put two necks on the block to extend the life of one for a day.

If you and dubb are villagers, you have played this weird. You heavily put yourself strongly behind dubb, and then you guys go against the one for one strategy that villagers have used in the past.

I just don't understand how you can back dubb so strongly, unless you actually know what his role is. Very strange.

Either way, I don't care which is lynched, we got us an outlaw!

[jeff061]

Yeah. I'm pretty confident and the votes not decided yet. And Saldana posts a ton of stuff that makes no sense and I can't control myself to not argue with him :).

I'm more surpised other's are not agreeing. I'm begging people to come up with something against Dubb and no one has yet. If someone does, and it's convincing, I'll switch.

[RPI-Fan]

No way both jeff & dubb are Outlaws, I don't think -- absolutely no reason for jeff to put his ass on the line here where it's not necessary.

[Fouts]

Yeah. I'm pretty confident and the votes not decided yet. And Saldana posts a ton of stuff that makes no sense and I can't control myself to not argue with him :).

Confident huh? I think its a toss up, either one could be the bad guy. Thats why we have a double lynching (I know we can't).

It really doesn't matter which one gets lynched tonight.

[saldana]

Yeah cause you know, the Outlaws are going to put two necks on the block to extend the life of one for a day.

the outlaws are the only ones that know the score...we dont know how many of you there are, so killing me today and then a night kill could put you very close to victory, so in that scenario, one extra day could be very valuable....did that make enough sense for you? :p

[saldana]

dola, especially since you know you can get RPI with no defense, since you know where the sheriff was last night

[jeff061]

There are 3-4 I'd guess. I can't imagine a 50-66% lopping could ever be a good thing.

It really doesn't matter which one gets lynched tonight.

As long as they are an outlaw, right? You are baffling me.

[Fouts]

There are 3-4 I'd guess. I can't imagine a 50-66% lopping could ever be a good thing.



As long as they are an outlaw, right? You are baffling me.

50-66% lopping? HUH?

It doesn't matter which one tonight, because if it isn't the outlaw, he will die the next night.

[jeff061]

That was in response to Saldana saying I'm an Outlaw and it's possible I would put my head on the block, which would lead to the 50-66% lopping.


It doesn't matter which one tonight, because if it isn't the outlaw, he will die the next night.

But if we get the right one tonight we get one more day to get things done and we clear one guy. There is a big difference between killing an outlaw today and killing an innocent today/outlaw tomorrow.

[Fouts]

Well, dinnertime. I want to reiterate that I am in neither camp. I am leaving my vote on dubb, because saldana came out first.

I actually do prefer to get the right guy first, but either way we get him. In past games, a 1 for 1 exchange seemed to work fine for the good side, because we have the numbers advantage.

Good luck to the other half of us that don't post much.

[jeff061]

I'm going to bed. With any luck I don't look like an ass when I wake up :).

My pre-emptive apologies if I do.

[SnDvls]

after what happened today I'm still not convinced

vote dubb

[saldana]

come on RPI, you know you dont trust dubb, change it back and save me

[RPI-Fan]

Guys: Before I get killed by the Outlaws tonight, since it seems like a certainty, I want to throw this out there:

I don't know why Neon_Chaos has said there are no secret roles... I am the "Man with the Legacy" and have the power to, for lack of a better word, "investigate" (forgot what the term NC used was... have since deleted the PM) one player when I'm killed and it will be revealed in the morning when I am dead -- I leave some kind of sign that indicates my results.

Who do you guys think I should investigate tonight, assuming I get killed? I don't think dubb/saldana are necessary... my thought is Mr. W who I am 75% sure is an Outlaw. Any thoughts?

[Schmidty]

After reading and having a short time to decide before putting my daughter to bed, I'll:

Vote Dubb

[hoopsguy]

I've kind of enjoyed watching the show, checking in every once in awhile while playing cards. I'm inclined to agree with RPI that Dubb and Jeff are not both outlaws based on their behavior - would be a nice work by going against convention by Jeff if that is the fact and something to file away for another game, perhaps.

I don't have anything compelling in terms of arguments here. I really don't think Saldana's arguments have been as loopy as Dubb/Jeff would like to paint them. So I'll stick with my gut and hope it is correct this time.

I'm still very interested in what happened on the other night where the outlaws did not get a kill. I'm not inclined to think that the sheriff successfully protected, since we did not hear shots. So ... wondering if anyone might have any insight to share on this? I don't see anything immediately apparent in the roles to explain it.

[Neon_Chaos]

11:30 PM Vote Count:
saldana (6) - dubb93, Mr. Wednesday, Passacaglia, jeff061, kingfc22, RPI-Fan
dubb93 (5) - Fouts, saldana, hoopsguy, SnDvls, Schmidty

Deadline will strictly be at 12:00 MN, I will use the board's clock.

[RPI-Fan]

NC -- what happens in the case of a tie vote?

[Neon_Chaos]

In this case, since the Judge is already in jail, the tie-breaking decision is deffered to Bek.

[hoopsguy]

Who does not yet have his vote in ...

[saldana]

i would pay real money for Bek to show up, he is the only one that hasnt voted.

MY LAST APPEAL TO PASS, WEDNESDAY, KING or RPI... dubb's story about what happened is illogical...the sheriff missing with 2 shots against a guy with a knife, while they are in the same room!! its because he made it up!! he was the one running away last night, and he is gonna be the one laughing all the way to the bank (or your house) tonight when one of you is next. i dont know what else to say that i havent already said.

[RPI-Fan]

Alright, guys, here is my grand theory:

I am going to investigate either Schmidty or Mr. W tonight if/when I'm killed, as long as nobody else has any better ideas. Hopefully it leads somewhere.

As for the Outlaws: I think that Mr. W, dubb/saldana, and Schmidty and/or kingfc are my gang. All of those guys, save dubb/saldana, have played the "law low" strategy, just making "sensible" votes, not offering any real insight. Maybe that's a viable villager strategy early in the game, but not at this stage, in my book.

~rpi-fan

[RPI-Fan]

*sigh*

I have a gut feeling on this one.

Unvote saldana

Vote dubb

[saldana]

with all due respect to someone that i am begging for my life from, how have i laid low...i have been in the thread as much as humanly possible for someone that works 10 hrs a day. i posted every day what time i was out and then when i was back in and have been as active as i could. we had no leads until today, so what insights should i have been making.

[Neon_Chaos]

If bek doesn't show up tonight, he'll have missed 3 consecutive votes, I think? Can anyone holler at Barkeep for me? I'll be replacing bek if he doesn't vote tonight.

[RPI-Fan]

with all due respect to someone that i am begging for my life from, how have i laid low...i have been in the thread as much as humanly possible for someone that works 10 hrs a day. i posted every day what time i was out and then when i was back in and have been as active as i could. we had no leads until today, so what insights should i have been making.

Probably better for you to shut your mouth, at this point. :)

But read my post again -- everyone BUT dubb/saldana has laid low to this point.

[saldana]

[B]thank you RPI!!!!! you wont regret it.

[saldana]

Probably better for you to shut your mouth, at this point. :)

But read my post again -- everyone BUT dubb/saldana has laid low to this point.

oh yeah...i'll shut up now ( i didnt see your vote until after i wrote that)

[saldana]

"saldana exhales strongly"

[Neon_Chaos]

Ding Ding Ding. Results will be up in a minute.

[Neon_Chaos]

Vote Count:
dubb93 (6) - Fouts, saldana, hoopsguy, SnDvls, Schmidty, RPI-Fan
saldana (5) - dubb93, Mr. Wednesday, Passacaglia, jeff061, kingfc22

After a close vote, the majority finally convinces the others that dubb93 is an Outlaw. "HANG HIM! HANG THE BASTARD!" You cheer, as you bind his arms together. You also tie his feet with rope, and then drag him off towards the gallows. He struggles and starts screaming expletives at everyone. "I AM THE FUCKING WITNESS! I AM THE WITNESS, CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT!?" A noose is tied around his neck. He is placed on top of a barrell and is set for hanging.

dubb93, with a final look of resignation, speaks in soft words... "May you all burn in hell for this." He then looks at saldana. "You're next, you lying bastard! If there's one solace I have in this world... is that I will see you in the other side, so I can gouge your eyes out!"

The Barrell is kicked from underneath dubb93, he thrashes, and then twitches and after a few moments, breathes his last.

You head for his room, and look around. Nothing of note. What is this? You find in your diary a notebook. I seems that dubb93 was keeping a diary. Here is an excerpt.

"I'm damn paranoid. I can't trust anyone here. I'm going to find out who these bandits are, and if I have to walk out at night and track one, I will."

It is without a doubt that dubb93 was the Witness!

IT IS NOW NIGHT 5! NIGHT ACTIONS ARE DUE BY 9 AM EDT.


(Bek has been replaced by Barkeep49, he was way too inactive in this game, and I got some complaints.)

1. ardent enthusiast - Psychic Gypsy Twin, killed by Outlaws Night 3
2. Passacaglia
3. hoopsguy
4. saldana
5. dubb93 - Witness, lynched Day 5
6. RPI-Fan
7. SackAttack - Private Investigator, killed by Wealthy Baron, Day 1
8. Barkeep49 - Wealthy Baron, role revealed Day 1
9. Mr. Wednesday
10. Lathum - Villager, killed by Outlaws, Night 2
11. Blade6119 - Man Of Loose Moral Fiber, lynched Day 3
12. pennywisesb - Psychic Gypsy Twin, killed via psychic connection with ardent enthusiast, Night 3
13. jeff061
14. Fouts
15. kingfc22
16. SnDvls
17. Schmidty
18. henry296 - Villager, lynched Day 4
19. RealDeal - In Jail, imprisoned, Day 2<!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[RPI-Fan]

I'm so so sorry guys.:(

I'm such a schmuck.

[hoopsguy]

RPI, wait your turn. Saldana is next.

[Barkeep49]

Well hello all. Quite the eventful day. Seems like we're behind the 8 ball. I hope we can catch up!

[jeff061]

Don't know why no one saw what I did.

Dubb got lynched even though not one person could give a reason for it and I gave several for Saldana. Frustrating.

Ah well, easy lynch tomorrow.

[saldana]

*saldana laughs at the villagers as they pull dubbs limp body from the gallows* :)

[Poli]

Smile.

This reminds me of the coup we pulled a few games back as the mafia.

[jeff061]

I can't believe hoops didn't pick up on something so obvious.......

[Lathum]

lol, this brings back memories

[hoopsguy]

Jeff, I almost switched the vote a couple of different times - thought about it after RPI did but didn't pull the trigger. Part of it, I think, was how impassioned you were in the defense without having any kind of role to play (beyond villager) ... it weirded me out a little bit because I couldn't tell if you were making a move or playing it straight. I mentioned something about that in an earlier post. Bottom line - I just couldn't get myself to commit.

[Fouts]

Wow. Just wow.

[Fouts]

Alright, guys, here is my grand theory:

I am going to investigate either Schmidty or Mr. W tonight if/when I'm killed, as long as nobody else has any better ideas. Hopefully it leads somewhere.

As for the Outlaws: I think that Mr. W, dubb/saldana, and Schmidty and/or kingfc are my gang. All of those guys, save dubb/saldana, have played the "law low" strategy, just making "sensible" votes, not offering any real insight. Maybe that's a viable villager strategy early in the game, but not at this stage, in my book.

~rpi-fan

I'm with you on your outlaw ideas. I think it is saldana, king and jeff. Great play by jeff to back dubb that hard, really makes you look innocent. Now I know why you knew he was the witness.

[SackAttack]

I reiterate, you guys are so fucked. :D

[Neon_Chaos]

Through the night, you head no noise... you pray that the Sherriff could have been able to block another kill somehow. As you wake up, however, you find out that one of you is missing. kingfc22 is nowhere to be found. You fin him in his bed, his chest cut open. You search his room, but find nothing of not. kingfc22 was without a doubt a Villager!

IT IS NOW DAY 6! VOTING DEADLINE IS AT 9PM EDT!

1. ardent enthusiast - Psychic Gypsy Twin, killed by Outlaws Night 3
2. Passacaglia
3. hoopsguy
4. saldana
5. dubb93 - Witness, lynched Day 5
6. RPI-Fan
7. SackAttack - Private Investigator, killed by Wealthy Baron, Day 1
8. Barkeep49 - Wealthy Baron, role revealed Day 1
9. Mr. Wednesday
10. Lathum - Villager, killed by Outlaws, Night 2
11. Blade6119 - Man Of Loose Moral Fiber, lynched Day 3
12. pennywisesb - Psychic Gypsy Twin, killed via psychic connection with ardent enthusiast, Night 3
13. jeff061
14. Fouts
15. kingfc22 - Villager, killed by Outlaws Night 5
16. SnDvls
17. Schmidty
18. henry296 - Villager, lynched Day 4
19. RealDeal - In Jail, imprisoned, Day 2<!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[RPI-Fan]

I think that the Outlaws did us a favor, killing kingfc22 -- he probably would have been a target of lynching soon.

Vote saldana

(BTW, we're either at a 7-3 or 6-4 advantage here... either way, we'll be 7-2 or 6-3 tonight, or if we get the Outlaw leader 6-2/5-3... not an awful situation.

[hoopsguy]

Get this out of the way early - Vote Saldana

And then see what is there in the Saldana/Dubb vote to work with ... although with as many outlaws as there are (3 or 4) I'm concerned it won't be as telling as we would like.

[Passacaglia]

VOTE SALDANA

Seems pretty obvious.

[Barkeep49]

Vote Saldana

[SnDvls]

Vote Saldana

sorry I doubted you Dubb my sincire apoligies. I guess he played me this whole time.

[jeff061]

I'm with you on your outlaw ideas. I think it is saldana, king and jeff. Great play by jeff to back dubb that hard, really makes you look innocent. Now I know why you knew he was the witness.

Give me a frikken break. Saldana's guilt was so ridiculously obvious to me, should have been for everyone. You have played this game wierd with some real oddball ideas. I don't get you at all.

Vote Saldana

[jeff061]

I'm looing at Hoops and Fouts next. We have nothing to go on for anyone though, chances are stacked against us.

[dubb93]

Good play guys, no evidence against me, but good play guys.

[RPI-Fan]

I'm looing at Hoops and Fouts next. We have nothing to go on for anyone though, chances are stacked against us.

hoops isn't worth going after... Mr. W should be our next target, IMO.

[jeff061]

Well, we'll discuss it tomorrow I suppose. I really am not leaning strongly towards anyone. Voting dubbs and not posting some evidence is out of the norm for Hoops and Fouts is just being odd(though that doesn't make him an outlaw).

[saldana]

*saldana cant talk, he is still laughing so hard, tears have started coming out of the corners of his eyes, and through his uncontrolled laughter, you think you hear something like "wet myself soon"*

[hoopsguy]

Jeff, I don't blame you for suspecting me after I was on the wrong end of the vote yesterday. But let me put one idea out there that should perhaps dissuade you from that idea:

I'm filling in for MrBug, who dropped out of the game for whatever reason. How many games have you ever seen someone who was a bad guy leave? I know it isn't a big sample set, but I've now filled in two times and been in a non-descript villager role each time. Bek was dropped from this game - another villager. When the bad guys are winning even if they aren't active they want to be around to cackle at the end of the game.

I'm just glad that we still have the sheriff around. I think that is the only thing that has gone right for the villagers so far.

[hoopsguy]

Any chance that we would have had two men of loose fiber in this game? I'm still baffled as to what happened on the night that no one died where we did not hear gunshots (night 2?) ...

[RPI-Fan]

Any chance that we would have had two men of loose fiber in this game? I'm still baffled as to what happened on the night that no one died where we did not hear gunshots (night 2?) ...

I think it's in the realm of possibility... I have a secret role, despite NC's comment that there are no secret roles -- so we may indeed be looking at more Outlaws than we'd imagined. I would hope, though, that the Outlaws would only have started with 3, if they had 2 MoLMF.

[Fouts]

Vote saldana

I'm voting jeff next. Good move by killing King, sets me up real nice.

[jeff061]

I honestly don't know what the connection is between you and King or why it sets you up, vote me all you want. The logic would be expected given the level displayed so far.

RPI suspected me for being to quiet.
Fouts does for me being to loud and supportive of the obvious. I should of been louder.

[kingfc22]

Villagers SUCK in this one. That is all.

[jeff061]

Well I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest two outlaws voted for Dubb and one voted for Saldana.

I don't think it's Fouts, he's drawn to much attention to himself. Still think it can be Hoops, but I'll likely not push for him yet. The other two at a glance are SnDvls and Schmidty. I don't think it's RPI.

On the other side it's Wednesday or Pass. RPI can you remind me why you are looking at Wednesday?

[Passacaglia]

Yo, jeff, I made the right call, don't throw suspicion toward me!

[jeff061]

Hehe, I threw it on a lot of people, haven't looked at your posts at all. But the Outlaws are not going to all lump together. They'll be weighted against Dubb and someone will be split off for safety's sake.

[SackAttack]

Any chance that we would have had two men of loose fiber in this game? I'm still baffled as to what happened on the night that no one died where we did not hear gunshots (night 2?) ...

:eek:

I'm glad we have indoor plumbing in heaven.

[saldana]

*saldana's uncontrolled laughter resonates from the town square throughout the entire day, as he lays, doubled up in fits of hysteria on the ground, tears streaming down his face.*

[Fouts]

*saldana's uncontrolled laughter resonates from the town square throughout the entire day, as he lays, doubled up in fits of hysteria on the ground, tears streaming down his face.*

At least you're being a good sport about it.

[saldana]

At least you're being a good sport about it.

OUT OF GAME
in all seriousness, i am not trying to be a bad sport, i just dont have anything to say, and i figure Neon_Chaos is going to have a grand manner of killing me at 9, so i was just trying to have a bit of fun before my neck streches. i honestly apologize if people thought i was rubbing it in too hard.

[Fouts]

OUT OF GAME
in all seriousness, i am not trying to be a bad sport, i just dont have anything to say, and i figure Neon_Chaos is going to have a grand manner of killing me at 9, so i was just trying to have a bit of fun before my neck streches. i honestly apologize if people thought i was rubbing it in too hard.

No biggie, but next time you are up to the plate, don't get comfortable.

[Neon_Chaos]

saldana - RPI-Fan, hoopsguy, Passacaglia, Barkeep49, SnDvls, jeff061, Fouts

After an entire day of taunting you, you finally decide to hang saldana. He puts up no fight at all, and is laughing hysterically.

"You're all going to die, anyway! HA HA HA HA HA!"

You bind his limbs and then tie a noose around his neck. You hang him, and his body reacts violently to the rope around his neck. He stats twitching, and then foams at the mouth. He finally leaves this mortal coil.

You head to his room, and look around. You find a knife soaked with blood, and some letters exchanged between him an accomplices. It is without a doubt that saldana was an Outlaw!

It is now NIGHT 6! NIGHT ACTIONS ARE DUE AT 9AM EDT!

1. ardent enthusiast - Psychic Gypsy Twin, killed by Outlaws Night 3
2. Passacaglia
3. hoopsguy
4. saldana - Outlaw, lynched Day 6
5. dubb93 - Witness, lynched Day 5
6. RPI-Fan
7. SackAttack - Private Investigator, killed by Wealthy Baron, Day 1
8. Barkeep49 - Wealthy Baron, role revealed Day 1
9. Mr. Wednesday
10. Lathum - Villager, killed by Outlaws, Night 2
11. Blade6119 - Man Of Loose Moral Fiber, lynched Day 3
12. pennywisesb - Psychic Gypsy Twin, killed via psychic connection with ardent enthusiast, Night 3
13. jeff061
14. Fouts
15. kingfc22 - Villager, killed by Outlaws Night 5
16. SnDvls
17. Schmidty
18. henry296 - Villager, lynched Day 4
19. RealDeal - In Jail, imprisoned, Day 2

[Schmidty]

Sorry I missed the vote, but also very happy that we bagged an outlaw!!! :)

(BTW, I thought we had until 12 a.m. EST)

[RPI-Fan]

So we have 9 active player left, with either a 6-2 or 5-3 advantage... the one thing is, we will lose AT LEAST one villager somewhere if we want to win... so it's really a 5-2/4-3 type thing right now, making the situation kind of essential.

BTW, if I get killed tonight, I will be using my investigative powers to check out Mr. W.

[Neon_Chaos]

Someone tell RealDeal he can still talk and stuff. :) I haven't seen him around.

[Fouts]

I count 10 left, unless I've missed something -

Passacaglia - quiet, no opinion
hoopsguy - suspicious, not his usual analytical self
RPI-Fan - known villager due to outlaw attempt, told by witness
Barkeep49 - Wealthy Baron, role revealed Day 1
Mr. Wednesday - suspicious
jeff061 - highly suspicious, backed witness, but only he knew the right witness
Fouts - villager
SnDvls - quiet, unknown
Schmidty - quiet, unknown
RealDeal - judge

I think it is 8-2. If NC gave them 4 to start out with and the MoLMF roaming around, we are in big trouble.

My top 3 are jeff, hoops, mr. w.

Edit - I think our pool to choose from should be jeff, hoops, mr. w, pass, sndvls, schmidty. We have a 2 in 6 chance with that group (maybe 3 in 6).

[Neon_Chaos]

The night passes quickly. You wake up and find that someone is missing again. You look for hoopsguy, but can't find him. You finally find his body, beaten to a bloody pulp in a small alley between a couple of vacant woodsheds. You enter his room, and look around. Nothing of note can be found. hoopsguy was, without a doubt, a Villager!

IT IS NOW DAY 7! NIGHT ACTIONS ARE DUE AT 9PM EDT!

1. ardent enthusiast - Psychic Gypsy Twin, killed by Outlaws Night 3
2. Passacaglia
3. hoopsguy - Villager, killed by Outlaws, Night 6
4. saldana - Outlaw, lynched Day 6
5. dubb93 - Witness, lynched Day 5
6. RPI-Fan
7. SackAttack - Private Investigator, killed by Wealthy Baron, Day 1
8. Barkeep49 - Wealthy Baron, role revealed Day 1
9. Mr. Wednesday
10. Lathum - Villager, killed by Outlaws, Night 2
11. Blade6119 - Man Of Loose Moral Fiber, lynched Day 3
12. pennywisesb - Psychic Gypsy Twin, killed via psychic connection with ardent enthusiast, Night 3
13. jeff061
14. Fouts
15. kingfc22 - Villager, killed by Outlaws Night 5
16. SnDvls
17. Schmidty
18. henry296 - Villager, lynched Day 4
19. RealDeal - In Jail, imprisoned, Day 2<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Passacaglia]

So I'm looking at RPI-Fan. He changed his vote at the last minute from saldana to dubb -- like he wanted to vote saldana to avoid suspicion, but at the last minute, he had to switch to affect the outcome. Also, he claims a hidden role despite NC saying in Post #1 that there are no hidden roles. Again, I'm a werewolf newbie, but I don't think NC would lie outright like that.

[RPI-Fan]

So I'm looking at RPI-Fan. He changed his vote at the last minute from saldana to dubb -- like he wanted to vote saldana to avoid suspicion, but at the last minute, he had to switch to affect the outcome. Also, he claims a hidden role despite NC saying in Post #1 that there are no hidden roles. Again, I'm a werewolf newbie, but I don't think NC would lie outright like that.

dubb, the real witness, witnessed them trying to kill me. The only way I could be an Outlaw would be if I had some huge master plan where we KNEW the sheriff would protect me, etc. -- all in all, it's not the case. I'm a villager, who fucked up big time.

As for the secret role, I lied about it because I knew I had been protected the night before, so if I avoided being killed, we had a CHANCE of protecting a villager. Alas it didn't work out, but I figured it was worth a try.

Plus: as soon as I came up with that role, putting pressure on Mr. W, he doesn't attempt to kill me. I think that might give a pretty strong indication he is an Outlaw. I'm not sure who his cohorts are, but for now I'm comfortable just going after him.

Vote Mr. W

[RPI-Fan]

I count 10 left, unless I've missed something -

Passacaglia - quiet, no opinion
hoopsguy - suspicious, not his usual analytical self
RPI-Fan - known villager due to outlaw attempt, told by witness
Barkeep49 - Wealthy Baron, role revealed Day 1
Mr. Wednesday - suspicious
jeff061 - highly suspicious, backed witness, but only he knew the right witness
Fouts - villager
SnDvls - quiet, unknown
Schmidty - quiet, unknown
RealDeal - judge

I think it is 8-2. If NC gave them 4 to start out with and the MoLMF roaming around, we are in big trouble.

My top 3 are jeff, hoops, mr. w.

Edit - I think our pool to choose from should be jeff, hoops, mr. w, pass, sndvls, schmidty. We have a 2 in 6 chance with that group (maybe 3 in 6).

RealDeal shouldn't be counted because the only way he gets out of jail is if the Outlaws jailbreak him... I really don't see that happening, as though it might help them in us not knowing if we get an Outlaw -- any of their gang who goes to jail is stuck there, plus they lose out on a free kill, plus we get another villager in the headcount.

So I say 8 players left (after hoops died), and 6-2 or 5-3. But we will be making a one-for-one at some point during a lynching, as the Outlaw leader is still out there.

[RPI-Fan]

At this point, I have Passacaglia cleared in my mind. That leaves SnDvls, Fouts, Schmidty, Mr. W, and jeff. I'm willing to leave Fouts out of it for now, too... Mr. W I'm almost sure is an Outlaw because of Outlaw actions when I presented a serious threat to Mr. W.

In the dubb/saldana vote, Mr. W voted saldana. That was a strategy our WW group discussed thoroughly last game (voting strategically for one of your own), so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he applied it there.

dubb93 (6) - Fouts, saldana, hoopsguy, SnDvls, Schmidty, RPI-Fan

That means we're PROBABLY looking at 2 of the highlighted guys being Outlaws. Fouts, as I said, I'll give a pass for now... that leaves SnDvls and Schmidty. Both of them make sense as Outlaws, so I'd be comfortable going after them even today if necessary -- but I'm more confident Mr. W is an Outlaw.

[hoopsguy]

Sorry that I was such a non-contributor as a villager - now a dead villager. I'm hoping that you guys can put together a big-time rally to make this a game worth remembering for positive reasons.

[Barkeep49]

I don't get it. Why are we giving Fouts a free pass? I think his game has been very suspicious and I had reason to believe, even before the game began, that he was an outlaw.

Vote Fouts

[RPI-Fan]

Sorry that I was such a non-contributor as a villager - now a dead villager. I'm hoping that you guys can put together a big-time rally to make this a game worth remembering for positive reasons.

I was sure you were the sheriff... you done good, though.

[RPI-Fan]

I don't get it. Why are we giving Fouts a free pass? I think his game has been very suspicious and I had reason to believe, even before the game began, that he was an outlaw.

Vote Fouts

Can you elaborate?

[Barkeep49]

Well I'm not sure this is fair, but since I came across the information naturally:

At the same time that roles were sent out in this game I know that Fouts PM box was full. This is because he had sent me a question in my werewolf game and when I tried to reply I was unable to do so. This made me think that he was an Outlaw because it's possible that there were two or three quick messages from the other outlaws, catching Fouts by surprise and filling his box. Of course at the time as I was not in this game I just smiled to myself and said nothing.

If it had just been this rather circumstantial evidence I would have given him a pass. However, he was vociferous in his defense of saldana during a close vote with some reasoning that seemed to arouse suspicion from others as well.

[Passacaglia]

You guys know I've said that I'm not one for bringing things outside of the game into this one, but it seems like keeping your PM box empty should be a no-brainer.

[jeff061]

I don't get it. Why are we giving Fouts a free pass? I think his game has been very suspicious and I had reason to believe, even before the game began, that he was an outlaw.

Vote Fouts

Won't see me shedding a tear if he get's lynched. I just don't see an outlaw drawing so much attention to them selves with such shoddy and bizzare reasoning.

[Fouts]

Well I'm not sure this is fair, but since I came across the information naturally:

At the same time that roles were sent out in this game I know that Fouts PM box was full. This is because he had sent me a question in my werewolf game and when I tried to reply I was unable to do so. This made me think that he was an Outlaw because it's possible that there were two or three quick messages from the other outlaws, catching Fouts by surprise and filling his box. Of course at the time as I was not in this game I just smiled to myself and said nothing.

If it had just been this rather circumstantial evidence I would have given him a pass. However, he was vociferous in his defense of saldana during a close vote with some reasoning that seemed to arouse suspicion from others as well.

That's funny. Excuse me if I'm in 3 games at once. You play your way, I'll play mine. And I didn't defend saldana, go back and look. I, nor anyone else but jeff, could tell who was the witness.

Jeff heavily defended dubb, but nobody could tell which one was the witness. The only way you know the right guy is by being an outlaw.

Vote jeff

[Fouts]

Won't see me shedding a tear if he get's lynched. I just don't see an outlaw drawing so much attention to them selves with such shoddy and bizzare reasoning.

Translation: lynch another villager, thats ok with jeff.

[jeff061]

Vote Fouts

I don't know what to make of him. If he's a villager this is perhaps the worse game I've ever seen a villager play.

I'll change if one of the guys on my suspect list(detailed earlier) gets a few votes.

[Fouts]

Vote Fouts

I don't know what to make of him. If he's a villager this is perhaps the worse game I've ever seen a villager play.

I'll change if one of the guys on my suspect list(detailed earlier) gets a few votes.

What? Thank you for the personal insult.

[Fouts]

I must have gotten the seer killed off the bat.

I didn't care which of the 2 claimed witnesses died.

I choose to accuse people when I'm suspicious.

I must have used outside items (personal inboxes) and brought them insdie the game.

Yep, worst game ever. I suck.

[jeff061]

You should, between me and somehow thinking Saldana was the witness, this hasn't been a bright spot.

[Fouts]

Well, line up your people who KNEW dubb was the witness. Lets hear the overwhelming evidence.

[Passacaglia]

I'm with jeff. I thought it was pretty obvious that dubb was the witness, so I've got to look at people who voted for dubb.

VOTE FOUTS

[Fouts]

I'm the sheriff. Too bad for us villagers that I played the worst game ever. Go ahead and lynch me.

[Fouts]

After you lynch me, lynch jeff and pass.

[Fouts]

Well, nothing to say pass? Have to discuss it with jeff first?

[jeff061]

I'm the sheriff. Too bad for us villagers that I played the worst game ever. Go ahead and lynch me.

Thats rich.

[jeff061]

unvote Fouts
Vote Mr. Wednesday

Even then anyone that seems to be actively looking out for the Outlaws best interests oughta be the one to go.

By the way fouts, I already names Pass as a suspect. I said either him or Wednesday are an Outlaw. More flawed logic.

[Passacaglia]

Well, nothing to say pass? Have to discuss it with jeff first?

I'm just waiting for someone else to show up claiming to be the sheriff.

[Fouts]

unvote Fouts
Vote Mr. Wednesday

Even then anyone that seems to be actively looking out for the Outlaws best interests oughta be the one to go.

Changed your tune real fast. No more insults? If you can't outplay someone, start insulting their game play. Good move sport.

[jeff061]

What insults? I've been stating fact. You protected good, and otherwise have hurt us this game. Don't take it so damn personal.

[Passacaglia]

Just a game, guys.

[Poli]

Stop!


In the name of love!

[Fouts]

What insults? I've been stating fact. You protected good, and otherwise have hurt us this game. Don't take it so damn personal.

Well you won in the end. You and pass got me to out myself. I am 99% sure you are an outlaw. If I'm wrong, then I have learned nothing playing this game.

[jeff061]

50% Pass is.

Not I.

You and pass got me to out myself

That doesn't make much sense to me. If the Outlaws knew you were the sheriff they wouldn't need you to out yourself. If they wanted the Sheriff to out themselves would focusing on you be the priority?

[Passacaglia]

Yo, I'm no outlaw. I'm just trying to figure all this out.

[Barkeep49]

Unvote Fouts

I'm willing to think about this one some more.

[RPI-Fan]

I think jeff & Mr. W are the guys that we need to go get. For tonight, I think Mr. W is a safe play.

[jeff061]

*sigh* I give up.

Can someone at the least tell me why people are looking at me? I've been the only innocent remotely helpful this game. Anyways, seriously, if you are going to vote me at all vote me now, I don't feel like hanging around this lost cause.

[jeff061]

By the way, if your logic is correct, I've knowingly voted for my teammates in back to back to back days.

[jeff061]

Saldana you must be enjoying this :).

Just going to repost what I did yesterday, maybe we can spark an actual logical conversation, since I'm pretty confident in the following, and no one commented on it(defaulting to me for a reason yet to be conveyed).

Well I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest two outlaws voted for Dubb and one voted for Saldana.

I don't think it's Fouts, he's drawn to much attention to himself. Still think it can be Hoops, but I'll likely not push for him yet. The other two at a glance are SnDvls and Schmidty. I don't think it's RPI.

On the other side it's Wednesday or Pass. RPI can you remind me why you are looking at Wednesday?

It looks like Fouts is clean, Hoops is dead. So here's my updated hit list.

Outlaws: Schmidty and Sundvls both are. And either Wednesday or Pass.

Any thoughts on this? Or am I just being suspicious....

[RPI-Fan]

The reason I really think W is because Pass is not, I feel. The post he made saying "I don't even know who the MOLMF is" seemed pretty genuine. Just gave me a vibe that he's not Outlaw, along with his other posts.

I"ve decided that I'm less confident in that than I am SnDvls, though.

So, Vote SnDvls

[Fouts]

The reason I really think W is because Pass is not, I feel. The post he made saying "I don't even know who the MOLMF is" seemed pretty genuine. Just gave me a vibe that he's not Outlaw, along with his other posts.

I"ve decided that I'm less confident in that than I am SnDvls, though.

So, Vote SnDvls

Not very convincing. We need a united villager front, to combat the outlaws. Otherwise, we are going to be spread out and they will pick who to lynch.

[Fouts]

Here are my remaining suspects;

jeff - absolutely knew saldana was the witness
mr. w - no idea, playing the game quiet, is he still alive?
pass - following jeff's lead, not offering much to help
sndvls - quiet
schmidty - quiet

We have 3 quiet guys, and jeff and pass. Pretty obvious to me.

[jeff061]

jeff - absolutely knew saldana was the witness

Yeah, why didn't anyone else, I don't know. Was anyone reading his posts that day other than me?

In any case, I'll vote for anyone I listed above, wednesday, Sundvls, whatever. I'm never going to convince Fouts, so I'll stop trying. Hopefully we'll win despite him.

[RPI-Fan]

Here are my remaining suspects;

jeff - absolutely knew saldana was the witness
mr. w - no idea, playing the game quiet, is he still alive?
pass - following jeff's lead, not offering much to help
sndvls - quiet
schmidty - quiet

We have 3 quiet guys, and jeff and pass. Pretty obvious to me.

So, you think jeff & pass are the Outlaws? Maybe I'm being too easy here, but Pass gives me the villager Vibe... at this point there's no reason for the villagers to be quiet so I have reason to suspect those guys.

However, I hate to change my vote once again, but jeff's antics totally remind me of saldana and other bad-guy players in the past defending themselves when they are accused.

Unvote SnDvls

Vote jeff061

[jeff061]

Well everyone gather on now so I don't have to worry about fending for myself tomorrow.

However, I hate to change my vote once again, but jeff's antics totally remind me of saldana and other bad-guy players in the past defending themselves when they are accused.

It's called being "Defensive", and everyone acts that way when accused.

[RPI-Fan]

Anyone have a vote count?

[jeff061]

2 for Me
1 for Fouts
1 for Wednesday

I think. Doesn't matter though, tonights vote is already decided as most the suspected Outlaws have not shown up yet. Fouts has done more to lose the game for us (remember this in an hour Fouts).

[saldana]

not that its any of my business since i am currently decomposing, but RPI has voted twice without unvoting....

[RPI-Fan]

Note: My vote is (very) subject to change.

[RPI-Fan]

not that its any of my business since i am currently decomposing, but RPI has voted twice without unvoting....

Sorry... let's do this.

Unvote EVERYONE

[jeff061]

Well if its going to change nothing new is going to come out. You have my thinking and you have Fouts.

[Poli]

Heh, I was just thinking. My random vote earlier was for an outlaw. Rock.

[saldana]

again, just trying to help out, with rpi unvoting everyone the count at 7:55 is

Mr w. - jeff
Fouts - Pass
Jeff - Fouts

[RPI-Fan]

again, just trying to help out, with rpi unvoting everyone the count at 7:55 is

Mr w. - jeff
Fouts - Pass
Jeff - Fouts

Thanks, mucho appreciated. More than a little disappointing only 3 people have voted.

N_C: Any chance we can extend to 9pm tomorrow (I'd love for the game to move along, but would rather everyone be able to get their voice heard).

[Fouts]

again, just trying to help out, with rpi unvoting everyone the count at 7:55 is

Mr w. - jeff
Fouts - Pass
Jeff - Fouts

Just by the fact that you are "helping out" makes me think we have an outlaw targeted. If the outlaw were being quiet, you wouldn't be as interested because they would be safe. I am becoming more and more sure by the minute that I am right.

[jeff061]

Heh, I'm sure he's happy you feel that way.

[RealDeal]

Opinions are like assholes, we all have one and most of them are shitty, but just from parusing, my hunch is that Sndvls is a outlaw.

[Fouts]

Opinions are like assholes, we all have one and most of them are shitty, but just from parusing, my hunch is that Sndvls is a outlaw.

I agree with the opinion comment. Since you are the judge, shouldn't you want some evidence, rather than just a hunch?

[RPI-Fan]

Opinions are like assholes, we all have one and most of them are shitty, but just from parusing, my hunch is that Sndvls is a outlaw.

I wish you'd posted more as the game went on. I think your opinion would have been valuable because the Outlaws couldn't get into a pissing match with you, where we're left with no idea who's right and who's wrong.

[jeff061]

Well just in case the voting gets swayed I wouldn't want Fouts saying that I jumped in at the last second if he is an outlaw.

Unvote Wednesday

Vote Sundvls

I fully believe both Schmidty and Sundvls are Outlaws, everyone that voted for Dubb has been cleared but those two, and I don't think they would of had more voting on Saldana than Dubb.

But hey, that doesn't stack up to "Jeff figured to much out". :rolleyes:

[RealDeal]

Fouts, when I think I have solid evidence, I lay it out, but sometimes you just are basically going from hunches and making reads, and that's what I've done. I could be completely wrong, and I'm sure sndvls will love me for coming up with this after I killed him in the last game by depriving him of H2O.

[Fouts]

Sorry... let's do this.

Unvote EVERYONE

Does this mean you are not going to vote?

[RPI-Fan]

Does this mean you are not going to vote?

No, just waiting to decide.

[RPI-Fan]

Vote jeff061

[SnDvls]

trying to catch up

[SnDvls]

anyone want to give me a quick run down?

[jeff061]

Ok, bye guys. Last thoughts.

I have some more thoughts I'll give you anyways, waiting for something to materialize first.

You killed me for being to good in this particular game. Nice job.

[RPI-Fan]

Shit... there's a missed count in there... Barkeep voted for Fouts, so it's 2 for Fouts, 2 for jeff.

[jeff061]

Notice I'm not changing my vote to Fouts...

[RPI-Fan]

anyone want to give me a quick run down?

If you're an Outlaw, vote for the non-Outlaw b/w jeff and Fouts, IMMEDIATELY.

If you are a villager, do your best to pick b/w those two.

[RPI-Fan]

Unvote jeff

Vote Mr. W

[RPI-Fan]

If you're an Outlaw, vote for the non-Outlaw b/w jeff and Fouts, IMMEDIATELY.

If you are a villager, do your best to pick b/w those two.

Disregard: Please pick b/w Mr. W and Fouts (or if you want a tie vote, go for jeff or someone else).

[Fouts]

Shit... there's a missed count in there... Barkeep voted for Fouts, so it's 2 for Fouts, 2 for jeff.

Shocking. Saldana, who is dead, could have changed the game. Well done.

[SnDvls]

I'm pretty sure jeff is good as is mr. w

vote fouts

[jeff061]

And when they game is over(or tonight) you'll see it really didn't matter to him.

[Fouts]

I'm pretty sure jeff is good as is mr. w

vote fouts

LOL. I'm the sheriff, you dork.

[RPI-Fan]

Shocking. Saldana, who is dead, could have changed the game. Well done.

I can't even think of how saldan's mistake effects things here... he wanted it to seem like one less vote on you -- what does that mean?

[RPI-Fan]

I'm pretty sure jeff is good as is mr. w

vote fouts

PLEASE DON"T VOTE FOUTS

[Fouts]

Unvote Jeff

Vote SnDvls

[Fouts]

Nice one. Oh well, good game jeff.

[RPI-Fan]

Unvote W

Vote SnDvls

[Fouts]

Next time I play this game, I'm going to not say a word until the end. Seems to work for everyone else.

[jeff061]

Right. Your "theories" make me want to hang myself.

Still have something to add, but looks like it only 50% materialized I'll give it a bit more time.

[saldana]

i didnt make a mistake..barkeep unvoted in post 689 and never voted again

[SnDvls]

looks like a tie, barkeep unvoted and RPI's doesn't count hmmm

[RPI-Fan]

That's a heck of a play by SnDvls... wait til 5 minutes before, come in, cast the deciding vote on the sheriff, and when it turns out he did kill the sheriff say "Oh, I didn't have enough time to analyze so I had to throw something out there."

[jeff061]

i didnt make a mistake..barkeep unvoted in post 689 and never voted again

Where does this put us now?

[Fouts]

And when they game is over(or tonight) you'll see it really didn't matter to him.

What? I don't understand this.

[RPI-Fan]

looks like a tie, barkeep unvoted and RPI's doesn't count hmmm

If Barkeep does get to decide... please take out jeff -- putting everything together today, it seems painfully obvious that he is an Outlaw.

[jeff061]

That's a heck of a play by SnDvls... wait til 5 minutes before, come in, cast the deciding vote on the sheriff, and when it turns out he did kill the sheriff say "Oh, I didn't have enough time to analyze so I had to throw something out there."

And here was what I was waiting to say. There were two guests in this for quite a bit. At 8:55 one left and SnDvl came in. I was waiting on the other one, no luck.

[Fouts]

i didnt make a mistake..barkeep unvoted in post 689 and never voted again

My apologies, sir.

[jeff061]

What? I don't understand this.

Because you and I are both innocent.

[RPI-Fan]

What? I don't understand this.

Where did he post that... that's a very shady-looking comment.

[jeff061]

If Barkeep does get to decide... please take out jeff -- putting everything together today, it seems painfully obvious that he is an Outlaw.

Well can you be the first one and put it together for me? I wish you did it earlier because I can't take you guys for another day.

[Fouts]

And here was what I was waiting to say. There were two guests in this for quite a bit. At 8:55 one left and SnDvl came in. I was waiting on the other one, no luck.

This, combined with his last second vote for me, has me convinced. Finally, some real evidence.

[RPI-Fan]

My apologies, sir.

Sorry, my bad.