Werewolf XXVI: The Thing - GAME OVER! THINGS WIN!!!

[Barkeep49]

Cronin you have an explanation for that vote?

[st.cronin]

Cronin you have an explanation for that vote?

No - I'm really puzzled by this game, more so than any other. I think there's at least one person out there with proof of something, and if so I think it's almost time for them to come forward. There is probably only one Thing left, so we need to bust out our endgame strategy. If the Thing that's left is a convert, it could be anybody (including Barkeep49, even if we believe him about Qwik, which I 70% do), but probably somebody who DIDN'T vote for saldana.

[mckerney]

Would still rather see someone than Barkeep tested because I don't believe he's a thing, therefore:

Unvote Dubb
Vote Raiders Army

[Raiders Army]

hmmmm...I did a little excel chart for final voting and one thing pops out at me. dubb voted for saldana on Day 1 but didn't go for him on Day 2. He's continuing his voting on hoops on day 3, so I gotta say that looks pretty strange to me.

UNVOTE BARKEEP49
VOTE DUBB93

Remember, I'm the one who voted for saldana both days. I would think that would prove that I'm human. I'm good with getting tested though. :)

[st.cronin]

Vote Raider's Army

UNVOTE RAIDER'S ARMY

[st.cronin]

I had him voting for BK ... lemme think about this.

[mckerney]

hmmmm...I did a little excel chart for final voting and one thing pops out at me. dubb voted for saldana on Day 1 but didn't go for him on Day 2. He's continuing his voting on hoops on day 3, so I gotta say that looks pretty strange to me.

UNVOTE BARKEEP49
VOTE DUBB93

Remember, I'm the one who voted for saldana both days. I would think that would prove that I'm human. I'm good with getting tested though. :)

in that case

Unvote Raiders Army
Vote dubb

[st.cronin]

ok

VOTE DUBB

I think the convert (if there is one) is either him, Jeeber, or Blade.

[hoopsguy]

Updated votes as of Post #506:

Hoopsguy - Dubb (433)
Tanglewood - Anxiety (447)
Raiders - Blade (463), mckerney (503)
WVU - Coffee (473)
Barkeep - JeeberD (484)
Jeeber - path (486)
Dubb - Raiders (504)

No vote - Swaggs, WVU, Tanglewood, Barkeep, Cronin, Hoopsguy

[mckerney]

ok

VOTE DUBB

I think the convert (if there is one) is either him, Jeeber, or Blade.

I agree with this, except I don't think it's Jeeber or Blade.

[dubb93]

hmmmm...I did a little excel chart for final voting and one thing pops out at me. dubb voted for saldana on Day 1 but didn't go for him on Day 2. He's continuing his voting on hoops on day 3, so I gotta say that looks pretty strange to me.



Not the smoking gun you think it is. Saldana was so obviously a thing after the PMs came out and how he handled the situation that I felt it best to throw my vote on someone that could actually win the game for them. If Hoops was/is a thing, which I feel is likely it would be gameover b/c you guys are all giving him a verbal bj so far this game. Its almost like both barkeep and hoops are god and everything they say is truth. I call BS on them, one of them ATLEAST isn't on the up and up. I think it's Hoops.

Test me, show your stupidity.

[hoopsguy]

I know that WVUfan was on earlier this morning - he posted in another thread - but he still has yet to post in here. Given that I think that we have killed two original Things, we are either after a 3rd starter Thing or a convert. WVUfan potentially could fit either profile (unlike some of the guesses for convert) so that coupled with his silence over the last two days equals

VOTE WVUFAN

[dubb93]

I agree with this, except I don't think it's Jeeber or Blade.

worst call in werewolf history. :) , have fun being wrong.

[hoopsguy]

Dubb, Saldana was a 5-4 vote so it wasn't THAT obvious to the collective group. Given that there were three no votes we were very, very close to not getting him yesterday (tie = no test). If you were so sure he was a Thing, given the closeness of the race your vote probably would have helped give a little bit of breathing room. This sounds like a little bit of revisionist theory on your part.

[dubb93]

Dubb, Saldana was a 5-4 vote so it wasn't THAT obvious to the collective group. Given that there were three no votes we were very, very close to not getting him yesterday (tie = no test). If you were so sure he was a Thing, given the closeness of the race your vote probably would have helped give a little bit of breathing room. This sounds like a little bit of revisionist theory on your part.

Actually I made my call to vote you early and figured everyone would see Saldana. Most of they day I wasn't checking in the werewolf thread so I didn't know what the vote count was until late in the day after the deadline.

Call it revisionist, call it what you want, but I tend to think the group as a whole is smart enough to pick up on post 185 where he made himself sound like a complete idiot.

Would I have changed my vote if I came back and saw it was close? Yes, but when I did come back I didn't take the time to dig through posts, and to be honest I'm playing this game very much on the fly which is not how I normally play so forgive me if I'm making bad judgement calls.

With all that said, I probably won't defend myself anymore today b/c if the group wants me tested I'm more than happy to be tested, it just won't get us anywhere. I think the best way would be to test either Barkeep or Hoops. One has no evidence to back up his claims and the other has cleared himself by using a certain term out of context.

[Blade6119]

Damn you raiders, i had cronin and mckerney with me for like 5 minutes and now they abandon me...if dubb isnt bad, damn you

[Swaggs]

I am going to place my vote now, to see if it gains any momentum or reaction. If things look close, I will switch to unbreak a tie.

Vote JeeberD

[Raiders Army]

Not the smoking gun you think it is. Saldana was so obviously a thing after the PMs came out and how he handled the situation that I felt it best to throw my vote on someone that could actually win the game for them. If Hoops was/is a thing, which I feel is likely it would be gameover b/c you guys are all giving him a verbal bj so far this game. Its almost like both barkeep and hoops are god and everything they say is truth. I call BS on them, one of them ATLEAST isn't on the up and up. I think it's Hoops.

Test me, show your stupidity.
I definitely don't believe it's a smoking gun. The way you're defending yourself is much like how saldana defended himself. I'm leaving my vote on you.

[Raiders Army]

Damn you raiders, i had cronin and mckerney with me for like 5 minutes and now they abandon me...if dubb isnt bad, damn you
Well if he isn't bad, 1 out of 2 isn't bad for my record (technically 2 out of 3 votes). The big plus to it is that we aren't killing someone every vote...if they're human.

[Blade6119]

Well if he isn't bad, 1 out of 2 isn't bad for my record (technically 2 out of 3 votes). The big plus to it is that we aren't killing someone every vote...if they're human.
No, but if/when we miss today then they get another person added to their team. Its not just oh well, we missed. It must be viewed as either we kill a thing or they double in #s(assuming qwik was a thing, which i am still very uncertain of)

[st.cronin]

No, but if/when we miss today then they get another person added to their team. Its not just oh well, we missed. It must be viewed as either we kill a thing or they double in #s(assuming qwik was a thing, which i am still very uncertain of)

Yep. This is like an all or nothing play for the Things. The tough part is that if we miss on this one, then we have NO trust list - the convert could be anybody.

[Raiders Army]

No, but if/when we miss today then they get another person added to their team. Its not just oh well, we missed. It must be viewed as either we kill a thing or they double in #s(assuming qwik was a thing, which i am still very uncertain of)
Hey, I'm just trying to look at the glass half-full. Besides, there are two things we don't know:

1. Can they convert every night?
2. If not, was someone converted night 1?

Those are two pretty big questions in my mind.

[st.cronin]

I have my vote on dubb; my second choice right now would be Barkeep. I'm not at all convinced he's not an original thing.

[Blade6119]

Hey, I'm just trying to look at the glass half-full. Besides, there are two things we don't know:

1. Can they convert every night?
2. If not, was someone converted night 1?

Those are two pretty big questions in my mind.
1.I dont know, but id imagine so with the ability to have two votes in a day like we have today. If they cant, we shouldnt have this power. The alternate scenario i see that others dont seem to see is that barkeep could be a thing, and they can alternate nights converting and killing. They killed night one, and he used it to try and clear himself(which seems to have worked). Not that i know anything on dubb, but im betting(in my mind with pretty good odds) he will come up clean. They let saldana die without too much of a fight. They can't afford to lose another today.

2.See above, or barkeep really is good and they did nothing night 1(we had a night 0 as well though, so they could have a seer too).

[hoopsguy]

With as many questions as people have with Barkeep I'm willing to punt on our 2nd test of the day and have him tested. I don't like it, but if we are going to have someone come up clean then it might as well be him.

That said, a miss here and we are then likely facing two Things the rest of the way and the game gets hard again. Voting patterns start to have less meaning, early-forming alliances have to be re-assessed, etc. I'm hoping that if we miss today that we are lucky with someone having a night role that stuffs the conversion . Potentially this could have happened on Night 1 as well, although with no one commenting on this and nothing in Schmidty's Night 1 recap post to indicate I doubt that we were running this lucky.

[Blade6119]

With as many questions as people have with Barkeep I'm willing to punt on our 2nd test of the day and have him tested. I don't like it, but if we are going to have someone come up clean then it might as well be him.

That said, a miss here and we are then likely facing two Things the rest of the way and the game gets hard again. Voting patterns start to have less meaning, early-forming alliances have to be re-assessed, etc. I'm hoping that if we miss today that we are lucky with someone having a night role that stuffs the conversion . Potentially this could have happened on Night 1 as well, although with no one commenting on this and nothing in Schmidty's Night 1 recap post to indicate I doubt that we were running this lucky.
No, i was for barkeep with the first vote, but on the chance hes being honest and we are left with 1 thing(maybe two, but that would be a scary thought) we need to strike. We have a chance, however remote, to end this game with this vote. Night 2-3 will tell me everything i need to know about barkeep. You worry me, but raiders far more. His attitude about the vote today only reinforces that(one you are starting to display). But make no mistake about it, this vote is critical for our chances of victory, and we can no longer use it for alterior methods

[st.cronin]

No, i was for barkeep with the first vote, but on the chance hes being honest and we are left with 1 thing(maybe two, but that would be a scary thought) we need to strike. We have a chance, however remote, to end this game with this vote. Night 2-3 will tell me everything i need to know about barkeep. You worry me, but raiders far more. His attitude about the vote today only reinforces that(one you are starting to display). But make no mistake about it, this vote is critical for our chances of victory, and we can no longer use it for alterior methods

I mostly agree with this reasoning, although I think a vote for saldana has to be a clear for anybody.

[Barkeep49]

I think Raiders is an interesting target. We know saldana to be a Thing. So if Saldana is a thing and has a chance to convert somebody, who better then his arch enemy? The same could also hold in reverse on the assumption that if saldana was killed it would clear Raiders based on his early suspicion of saldana.

[Barkeep49]

Dola -- I will agree though that with our chance to win, it's better to go for the win now then to test me as I think the evidence should be mroe and mroe in my favor.

[Blade6119]

I mostly agree with this reasoning, although I think a vote for saldana has to be a clear for anybody.
Heres the problem i see with that. Review the time of the votes and how they fell into order in the saldana/barkeep duel. Most saldana votes(i thought when i looked) were before it was even close. If one had swapped late to barkeep to save saldana, he would have been target #1...just saying, if i was on saldana as a thing, i wouldnt have swapped.

[Raiders Army]

I never considered saldana to be my archenemy or Lex Luthor. I considered him to be more like Bizzaro, the dude who could be my friend or not depending on his role that day. :)

Oh yeah, who's my Lois Lane?

Back to the game, it would be interesting to clear Barkeep which is why I voted for him initially; however, looking back at the votes and actions, I tend to believe that he's more good than dubb is bad. In other words, I feel more strongly that Barkeep is good than I feel dubb is bad. Thus the switch in votes.

[Raiders Army]

Heres the problem i see with that. Review the time of the votes and how they fell into order in the saldana/barkeep duel. Most saldana votes(i thought when i looked) were before it was even close. If one had swapped late to barkeep to save saldana, he would have been target #1...just saying, if i was on saldana as a thing, i wouldnt have swapped.
The counter to that argument is that we wouldn't have known saldana was a Thing until further down the road. At that rate, it would've been suspicious, but not unreasonably so if someone changed their vote.

[st.cronin]

Heres the problem i see with that. Review the time of the votes and how they fell into order in the saldana/barkeep duel. Most saldana votes(i thought when i looked) were before it was even close. If one had swapped late to barkeep to save saldana, he would have been target #1...just saying, if i was on saldana as a thing, i wouldnt have swapped.

That scenario only works IF the vote swap hadn't worked. If it had forced a tie and nobody got tested, or if had Barkeep had tested clean, then the Things maybe get another convert, saldana would still would have been one suspect among several, and then the move would have worked.

Which, incidentally, is another reason why Barkeep is a suspect in my mind.

[Blade6119]

That scenario only works IF the vote swap hadn't worked. If it had forced a tie and nobody got tested, or if had Barkeep had tested clean, then the Things maybe get another convert, saldana would still would have been one suspect among several, and then the move would have worked.

Which, incidentally, is another reason why Barkeep is a suspect in my mind.
It was 5-4...1 vote swap from saldana to barkeep does not create a tie, it lynches barkeep 5-4. How does that not work?

[Blade6119]

The counter to that argument is that we wouldn't have known saldana was a Thing until further down the road. At that rate, it would've been suspicious, but not unreasonably so if someone changed their vote.
Any time someone does a swap from top to other top that is the decider they become a key target. Unless he swapped to a thing, that person is almost always a key target the next day

[Barkeep49]

I also happen to think that despite the fact that I would show up as clean a late minute switch would not have been as suspicious as in most other games due to the way I've played and the fact that I wouldn't die.

[st.cronin]

It was 5-4...1 vote swap from saldana to barkeep does not create a tie, it lynches barkeep 5-4. How does that not work?

Well, it does work IF nobody else changes their vote. I'm just saying it's not as clearcut as you make it sound, particularly since (assuming barkeep is clean) it means they get another convert - meaning that if you swap your vote, you're trading 1 for 1.

[Raiders Army]

Speaking of suspicious activity, your post count is not normal Blade.

[Blade6119]

Well, it does work IF nobody else changes their vote. I'm just saying it's not as clearcut as you make it sound, particularly since (assuming barkeep is clean) it means they get another convert - meaning that if you swap your vote, you're trading 1 for 1.
You know of any players that would sacrifice themselves when their not on anyones radar so that his teamates can get another They better play would be to let it slide and hope one of the non-voters stepped up and did something

[st.cronin]

You know of any players that would sacrifice themselves when their not on anyones radar so that his teamates can get another They better play would be to let it slide and hope one of the non-voters stepped up and did something

I think you're forgetting that a succesful test means they get no night cycle - that's a pretty fucking gigantic risk to take, don't you think?

[Blade6119]

Speaking of suspicious activity, your post count is not normal Blade.
Quite so, as i have said(there was a third i was looking for stating i wouldnt be as active, couldnt find it)
So anyone around tonight for a discussion? Hoops, BK? Dubb is usually on in like 2 hours...im bored, and i want to get back into my talkative groove...ive been wayyy to quiet
Double Dola, this may be a black hole, a vortex, the end of the world as we know it. Schmidty is the top poster in a WW thread and im nowhere near the top. What is the world coming to :) Just joking, not attacking you schmidty!!!

[Blade6119]

I think you're forgetting that a succesful test means they get no night cycle - that's a pretty fucking gigantic risk to take, don't you think?
So is having a thing step out and swap a vote to save their guy...that a "pretty fucking gigantic risk to take, don't you think?"

[hoopsguy]

On the vote swap issue, someone could have swapped and created a tie. That certainly could have been done last night given the very low level of activity. Say that the vote was moved to create a tie at 7:30. If no other votes came into play someone could argue that they didn't think that a tie would hold up - that someone would change their vote. Blah blah blah ...

The Things obviously wanted to keep Saldana alive last night but couldn't get the numbers to do it. Even if one of them voted for Saldana, moving off of him would have freed them up for another conversion. So even if we hit Saldana and the person who created the tie the next day, they were still going to keep the game alive into Day 4 (assuming night conversions) because we can't get three in one day.

That's why I'm just about positive there is only one remaining at this point and that he wasn't on Saldana. I'm still a little surprised that whoever it is didn't just take the plunge and put the vote on Barkeep to use the strategy above. Because they ended up risking a total loss today to try and extend their playing time.

[Blade6119]

On the vote swap issue, someone could have swapped and created a tie. That certainly could have been done last night given the very low level of activity. Say that the vote was moved to create a tie at 7:30. If no other votes came into play someone could argue that they didn't think that a tie would hold up - that someone would change their vote. Blah blah blah ...

The Things obviously wanted to keep Saldana alive last night but couldn't get the numbers to do it. Even if one of them voted for Saldana, moving off of him would have freed them up for another conversion. So even if we hit Saldana and the person who created the tie the next day, they were still going to keep the game alive into Day 4 (assuming night conversions) because we can't get three in one day.

That's why I'm just about positive there is only one remaining at this point and that he wasn't on Saldana. I'm still a little surprised that whoever it is didn't just take the plunge and put the vote on Barkeep to use the strategy above. Because they ended up risking a total loss today to try and extend their playing time.
IT WOULDNT HAVE CREATED A TIE...am i missing somewhere, becuase everyone seems to think this. A swap from saldana to barkeep would have meant no tie, just that we test barkeep. The fact they didnt means to me they didnt want to risk coming up bad, or barkeep is bad as well as it didnt matter who we killed.

[st.cronin]

On the vote swap issue, someone could have swapped and created a tie. That certainly could have been done last night given the very low level of activity. Say that the vote was moved to create a tie at 7:30. If no other votes came into play someone could argue that they didn't think that a tie would hold up - that someone would change their vote. Blah blah blah ...

The Things obviously wanted to keep Saldana alive last night but couldn't get the numbers to do it. Even if one of them voted for Saldana, moving off of him would have freed them up for another conversion. So even if we hit Saldana and the person who created the tie the next day, they were still going to keep the game alive into Day 4 (assuming night conversions) because we can't get three in one day.

That's why I'm just about positive there is only one remaining at this point and that he wasn't on Saldana. I'm still a little surprised that whoever it is didn't just take the plunge and put the vote on Barkeep to use the strategy above. Because they ended up risking a total loss today to try and extend their playing time.


I agree with almost all of this. That means we should probably be looking at those who voted for BK. That's Blade, Anxiety, saldana, and me (gulp).

unvote dubb

vote Blade

[Blade6119]

bring it cronin, im not backing down on my views

[st.cronin]

IT WOULDNT HAVE CREATED A TIE...am i missing somewhere, becuase everyone seems to think this. A swap from saldana to barkeep would have meant no tie, just that we test barkeep. The fact they didnt means to me they didnt want to risk coming up bad, or barkeep is bad as well as it didnt matter who we killed.

Of course it could've created a tie. Raiders could have typed unvote saldana, vote Jeeber. That would've made a tie.

I'm starting to like Blade as a thing ... he's usually very logical.

[Swaggs]

I think you're forgetting that a succesful test means they get no night cycle - that's a pretty fucking gigantic risk to take, don't you think?

Good point. I hadn't really thought about that.

[hoopsguy]

Updated votes, as of Post #548:

Hoopsguy - Dubb (433)
Tanglewood - Anxiety (447)
Raiders - Blade (463), mckerney (503)
WVU - Coffee (473), Hoopsguy (512)
Barkeep - JeeberD (484)
Jeeber - path (486), Swaggs (517)
Dubb - Raiders (504)
Blade - Cronin (545)

No vote - WVU, Tanglewood, Barkeep

[Blade6119]

in that case

Unvote Raiders Army
Vote dubb
missed that hoops

[hoopsguy]

Thanks, Blade. Updated as of Post #550:

Hoopsguy - Dubb (433)
Tanglewood - Anxiety (447)
Raiders - Blade (463)
WVU - Coffee (473), Hoopsguy (512)
Barkeep - JeeberD (484)
Jeeber - path (486), Swaggs (517)
Dubb - Raiders (504), mckerney (507)
Blade - Cronin (545)

No vote - WVU, Tanglewood, Barkeep

[Blade6119]

yawn

[JeeberD]

Bah, testing me is useless.

Unvote Barkeep

Vote dubb

[Schmidty]

My wife and I are going to Deception Pass this afternoon, and I don't think we'll be back by the deadline. As soon as I get back, I'll do a very quick write-up and the results.

[dubb93]

Bah, testing me is useless.

Unvote Barkeep

Vote dubb

Appears you seriously don't want yourself tested. Myself, I won't change my vote to save myself. If the group as a whole want to test me, go right ahead.

[Raiders Army]

Appears you seriously don't want yourself tested. Myself, I won't change my vote to save myself. If the group as a whole want to test me, go right ahead.
Statements like this make me think the opposite.

[Raiders Army]

Rolling out for the night. Hopefully the vote will yield the same results as last night. Die you Things!

[saldana]

Call it revisionist, call it what you want, but I tend to think the group as a whole is smart enough to pick up on post 185 where he made himself sound like a complete idiot.




OUCH!!:(

[mckerney]

Statements like this make me think the opposite.


Agreed. Everyone vote for dubb, plz k thx.

[Blade6119]

When is the deadline?

[Coffee Warlord]

To ensure there's no tie...

Unvote WVU

Vote Dubb

[hoopsguy]

Votes Updated as of Post #561:

Hoopsguy - Dubb (433)
Tanglewood - Anxiety (447)
Raiders - Blade (463)
WVU - Hoopsguy (512)
Jeeber - path (486), Swaggs (517)
Dubb - Raiders (504), mckerney (507), JeeberD (553), Coffee (561)
Blade - Cronin (545)

No votes: Tanglewood, Barkeep, WVUfan


I'm hoping that Tanglewood and WVUfan get their votes in ... both of these guys missed yesterday as well (Tangle came in after the horn, WVU not at all)

[dubb93]

OUCH!!:(

Maybe it was a little harsh, what I meant by it was you made it sound like you had no idea what the hell brilliant was and it was quite obvious. I do wish the whole brilliant thing was never brought into play.

[dubb93]

Statements like this make me think the opposite.

whatever you think. I won't be changing my vote, if I was a thing I would have reason to change my vote so I don't get tested. I have nothing to hide, please do vote for me, RA and McKerney are convinced I'm a thing.

[tanglewood]

I am fairly 50/50 on whether to test Dubb or Jebber, perhaps a slight pereference to test Jeeber but as it's almost a tossup for me and I don't want to risk making a late surge for a tie more likely, I'll go for Dubb.

Vote Dubb

I would've prefered to go for someone more low profle, but it looks like that won't be gaining any momentum. I think tonight will be 100% percent cruicial, I know it sounds strange but hopefuly we will get news of a converstion. That would confirm that there was no conversion on one, so the orignial cleared group would be only 1/5, and we discover that either the Things can't convert every night or we have a bodyguard type role. If we get no news again, well I think we're in trouble despite getting at least one early Thing kill, possibly two.

[Blade6119]

well dubby, i dont currently think your a thing if it matters...i hope im proven wrong though

[dubb93]

well dubby, i dont currently think your a thing if it matters...i hope im proven wrong though

I'm starting to think it just may be RA that was converted on night 1.

[Blade6119]

I'm starting to think it just may be RA that was converted on night 1.
Too late for that thought..ive made it very clear that i think it was him, but the group doesnt like it. One post in particular threw me over the edge with him though:Well if he isn't bad, 1 out of 2 isn't bad for my record (technically 2 out of 3 votes). The big plus to it is that we aren't killing someone every vote...if they're human.
It feels like he basically knows were going to hit a villager and is just setting it up so he doesnt take the heat for it...but dubby, its pretty safe that your a dead man unless you can get me and someone else to vote for jeeber on top of your vote. So, if your a human sit back and laugh...if your a thing, just sign off now and dont watch the bloodshed

[hoopsguy]

Put me in the "hoping he is, but think he isn't" camp on Dubb. But with a 5-2 difference I don't know if we can make a difference. Nor am I sure enough on another candidate to really push hard here for swapping this out.

There is the small consolation that we don't have a death unless we get a Thing, but I really want to see us wrap this game up tonight.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, even if all three of us were moving to Jeebs, it would just force a 5-5 tie and no test. Which obviously isn't what we are looking for in this case.

If someone who has their vote on Dubb wants to go another direction, then we have a fighting chance at making this happen in the next 10 minutes.

[hoopsguy]

Also, did I miss a vote from Barkeep? I know he voted/unvoted Dubb earlier in the day but I don't have him down on my scorecard ...

[Barkeep49]

He's not dead at all cuntlips. He's just going to be tested. My vote in a moment after I review someone's posting.

[Blade6119]

Blade, even if all three of us were moving to Jeebs, it would just force a 5-5 tie and no test. Which obviously isn't what we are looking for in this case.

If someone who has their vote on Dubb wants to go another direction, then we have a fighting chance at making this happen in the next 10 minutes.
Thought we had an hour 10 left...id be willing to jump of RA, but it would have to be to Jeeber for this to work and i think he was too obvious a choice on night one for him to be a convert. SO im fairly resolved to dubb getting tested, as it would take 1 more person to join us and i dont see who it would be

[Barkeep49]

I'll state right now I do not want to vote for dubb.

[Barkeep49]

Vote Raiders Army as I think dubb is more likely to be innocent, as I will buy inattentive play right now. Not thrilled about that, as frankly I expect more, but am willing to say it's the most likely happenstance given the circumstances.

[Blade6119]

He's not dead at all cuntlips. He's just going to be tested. My vote in a moment after I review someone's posting.
Just like you said with voting saldana over you...its not that they die, its that you have to take a shot at hitting a thing..and hoops and i dont think hes a thing..basically the exact same way hoops felt about you if im not mistaken

[Barkeep49]

Coffee and hoops: still time to flip it. What do you say CW?

[Blade6119]

need dubby to renig on his no swap as well

[hoopsguy]

Votes as of Post #576:

Hoopsguy - Dubb (433)
Tanglewood - Anxiety (447)
Raiders - Blade (463), Barkeep (575)
WVU - Hoopsguy (512)
Jeeber - path (486), Swaggs (517)
Dubb - Raiders (504), mckerney (507), JeeberD (553), Coffee (561), Tanglewood (565)
Blade - Cronin (545)

Not voted: WVUFan

[Barkeep49]

Oh you're right. Forgot about Tangle's vote.

[Coffee Warlord]

Coffee and hoops: still time to flip it. What do you say CW?

I'd do it.

[hoopsguy]

Lets give it a go.

UNVOTE DUBB
VOTE RAIDERS

[Blade6119]

CW, its either your with us or its not happening..i wont set up a tie...so it hangs on you whether we do this

[dubb93]

Deadline is close, we'll be back to where we started the day after night actions. Some people need to be hit with clue red wood. b/c the clue stick sure as hell didn't work today.

[Coffee Warlord]

unvote dubb

Vote RA

[Blade6119]

Dubb, swap now or else

[Barkeep49]

C'mon dubb.

[Blade6119]

its 4-4, ill swap off if i need to..no ties

[Coffee Warlord]

Tell me we're not tied.

[Coffee Warlord]

Someone change NOW.

[Barkeep49]

Gah. Oh well. I will be SO amused if dubb turns out to have been it. So amused.

[Blade6119]

ummmmm, dubb...get it in in less then 45 seconds

[Coffee Warlord]

Unvote RA

Vote dubb

Not chancing a tie.

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE RAIDERS
VOTE DUBB

[hoopsguy]

Oops

UNVOTE WVUFAN
VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. Wild.

[Blade6119]

We shouldnt have had a tie since hoops unvoted the wrong person

[hoopsguy]

I wonder how Schmidty will view my vote, as I had Dubb on the mind. My original vote was on WVUfan and the post unvoting him didn't come in until 8:01 PM (damn site lag).

I'll try to total the votes both directions, I guess.

[Blade6119]

And if dubb is bad ill laugh my head off

[Coffee Warlord]

Didn't have time to fully count it, and a vote for dubbs is better than the possibility of a tie. We'll see.

[Blade6119]

Well, depending on technicalities dubb should be tested...his silence during the past 10 minutes is amazing considering he was in thread the whole time

[tanglewood]

Well I leave the thread for 15 mins and everything gets fucked up. Let's hope that Schmidty interprets the deadline as 9pm inclusive.

[dubb93]

Well, depending on technicalities dubb should be tested...his silence during the past 10 minutes is amazing considering he was in thread the whole time

I was also outside after and before I made my post about the clue red wood.

[dubb93]

FUCK! I seriously fucked that up guys. My bad. I shouldn't have went outside that close to the deadline.

[Coffee Warlord]

I haven't seen at-the-wire action like that in a WW games in ages.

[Blade6119]

I haven't seen at-the-wire action like that in a WW games in ages.
It was rather fun really, lets do it again sometime:)

[dubb93]

I haven't seen at-the-wire action like that in a WW games in ages.

Yea, that was crazy.

[Coffee Warlord]

It was rather fun really, lets do it again sometime:)

Tomorrow is another day. :)

[hoopsguy]

OK, here is what I have for the count, assuming that my attempt to move the vote (wrong name pre-deadline, updated version post-deadline) is not counted:

Hoopsguy - Dubb (433)
Tanglewood - Anxiety (447)
Raiders - Blade (463), Barkeep (575)
WVU - Hoopsguy (512)
Jeeber - path (486), Swaggs (517)
Dubb - Raiders (504), mckerney (507), JeeberD (553), Tanglewood (565), Coffee (593)
Blade - Cronin (545)

Not voted: WVUFan



Even if my vote change from WVUfan to Raiders is changed, it doesn't change the fact that Dubb is going to be tested tonight since he has five votes and no one else had more than 2.

Hope that this works out, despite our butchered efforts here to move it. Sorry for contributing to the fiasco :(

[Blade6119]

Paging WVUfan...i hate when people do this

[Blade6119]

SO dubby, now that your getting tested...you know, are you clean?

[Coffee Warlord]

SO dubby, now that your getting tested...you know, are you clean?

That just sounds SO wrong.

[dubb93]

SO dubby, now that your getting tested...you know, are you clean?

I've pretty well said that all day.

[Blade6119]

That just sounds SO wrong.
I have no idea what you mean:p

[Blade6119]

I've pretty well said that all day.
If true we just shafted ourselves...we had a shot at a major victory today, and if we indeed did miss, tomorrow we go back to square one. Lines were drawn today, and those lines which are usually so helpful SHOULD mean absolutely nothing tomorrow with a conversion...

[Coffee Warlord]

C'mon schmidty! RESULTS!

[hoopsguy]

Now we hope that the bodyguard choses wisely. Or that the Things hit a blessed. Or that there is a Witness role. I'm telling myself (probably kidding myself, but I digress) that there are still multiple opportunities for the impressions today to be entirely valid.

[Blade6119]

C'mon schmidty! RESULTS!
You will have to wait all night...he wont be back for awhile

[Blade6119]

Now we hope that the bodyguard choses wisely. Or that the Things hit a blessed. Or that there is a Witness role. I'm telling myself (probably kidding myself, but I digress) that there are still multiple opportunities for the impressions today to be entirely valid.
Well, i dont have a role that can help us...if you do, by all means;)

[dubb93]

C'mon schmidty! RESULTS!

SPOILER:







I'm still just a scientist. I would expand on that, but I think Schmidty told us not to.

[JeeberD]

Come on, let's see dubb's blood jump! :)

[Schmidty]

I hate to do this, but I am more "tipsy" than I have been in many months and after casuallly looking at this, I'm in no condition to resolve this. I will reso;ve everything in the morning.

My wife and I had a GREAT time. :)

[st.cronin]

I hate to do this, but I am more "tipsy" than I have been in many months and after casuallly looking at this, I'm in no condition to resolve this. I will reso;ve everything in the morning.

My wife and I had a GREAT time. :)

booooooooo

[Raiders Army]

Some interesting last minute stuff. Let me catch up and respond.

[Raiders Army]

It feels like he basically knows were going to hit a villager and is just setting it up so he doesnt take the heat for it...but dubby, its pretty safe that your a dead man unless you can get me and someone else to vote for jeeber on top of your vote. So, if your a human sit back and laugh...if your a thing, just sign off now and dont watch the bloodshed
Bolded part me.

Nope. I didn't basically know we were going to hit a scientist. Chances were, we were. That's all.

How was dubby a dead man? The only way he would be a dead man would be if he wasn't a man at all...and I guess he took your advice to sign off and not watch the bloodshed.

[Raiders Army]

The other thing I note is that Blade and hoops "conveniently" missed the deadline. I'm not sure what was going on there, but they got their posts in at 9:01. hoops was definitely the more suspicious since he's been doing stuff like that all game not to mention the fact that he didn't unvote correctly. I could see an unexperienced player or a poor player doing this, but not him. Some things aren't adding up a little...

[hoopsguy]

Here was my logic on considering a switch:
- only one Thing left
- no movement away from Dubb until very late. Would require a lot of patience on the part of the Thing to take this stance, particularly given the lack of deadline participation the night before
- Barkeep was the first to start moving the votes, the guy that at that moment in time was the guy I trusted the most
- Blade, another guy who I have gradually elevated up my personal trust lists is also involved
- the guy I had my vote on (WVUfan) was not getting any real support, basically making it a wasted vote
- the more fuzzy idea (but potentially very valuable) of trying to flush out the Thing amidst the vote changes

I definitely don't consider it convenient that I missed the deadline. Every post I made last night instantly went through except for that one, which stalled for about 20 seconds before being processed.

And if I really was trying to pull a fast one with the "oops, I unvoted the wrong guy" then why bother trying to correct it? Wouldn't it be easier to just submit it, send a PM to Schmidty making sure he doesn't act on my improper unvote, and then react with an "Oh, shit!" later when Schmidty or another player points it out to me?

Sure, it is unusual for me to make a dumb n3wb mistake like that. But you play enough games and something random like that is going to happen at some point. I wish it had not happened, I take responsibility for any fallout from it (don't think it really impacted the end result, based on my voting totals in Post #609).

And I completely understand you reading this and being wigged out by the late action towards you and trying to construct greater meaning out of it. I thought the chances were pretty good that I was flipping my vote from one scientist to another, but because of the reasons above considered late activity preferable to the snooze-fest of a deadline march we had the day before, when we had a Thing on the block. Activity = good. It gives us more surface area to evaluate people.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "hoops was definitely the more suspicious since he's been doing stuff like that all game". This was the first time that I've tried to change a vote all game. I've never had a late deadline vote all game. So if you expand on that thought I'll respond to it, but right now I don't follow your thought well enough to do so.

If you are a scientist, and Dubb is proved to be a scientist, then I'm more inclined to trust people who moved their votes late than to increase my suspicion of them. Maybe this seems counter-intuitive, but here is my case. What does a Thing have to gain from the late activity? Drawing more attention to themselves, particularly when they are the last Thing standing? No matter what role either of you has, if you are human the test just shows that you are human ... I don't think Schmidty is going to say from a blood test that "Player X is the seer". About the only advantage is if they have a strong preference for converting one player over the other because the tested guy is considered a little more trusted, although even that is a trade-off because that person is much more likely to have a bodyguard role protecting him going forward.

[Raiders Army]

And I completely understand you reading this and being wigged out by the late action towards you and trying to construct greater meaning out of it.
I wasn't wigged out. The only reason why I would be concerned about a vote for me is that I would be tested, be shown as a scientist, and then have the JeeberD target on my back. Even though I wouldn't die when I would become a Thing, I still would want to win as the same side as I started. :)

I found it strange with all of the votes that switched to me. I was the only person to vote for a Thing twice. Nobody else did. Not that that should exonerate me, but I would think that that would cause people to not vote for me. Couple that with voting for dubb yesterday (maybe I'm guessing right a few too many times?) and I think that the Thing(s) are concerned with how I'm playing. If the Thing(s) get me shown as a scientist, then no one will trust me from then on because they know I'll be a target for conversion.

The whole "he voted for saldana so he would be a good target for conversion" is possible, but no more plausible than any other conversion strategy. Interestingly enough, my vote for dubb was based upon him voting for saldana and vice versa the first day and then switching his vote off saldana. Wouldn't that be a more viable candidate for the target for conversion?

Anyhow, the voting cycle is over; maybe I'll stay up late enough to see last minute voting. :)

[Raiders Army]

Dola - I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "hoops was definitely the more suspicious since he's been doing stuff like that all game"
To respond to that, it seems as if you've made a few mistakes concerning me specifically. Let me go back:

Post #230:
I agree with this as well since it's going to be waaaaaaay easier to pick off an original Thing instead of someone who was converted. This leads me to believe that there is no way they can convert someone every night. If they did, that would weight the game too much in favor of the Things. Every time we would catch an orginal Thing, they would have converted someone the night prior. So I would guess that maybe we have a little more of a window in terms of trusting people.

Let's say they're playing by tradditional WW rules. I would guess that they couldn't convert someone on Night 0, but could convert someone last night. I'm thinking that whoever we vote to be tested today would be good for tomorrow as well. Thoughts?

Post #231:
Hmmm...maybe the balance is that we can test two people if we catch a Thing on the first test. Still, I think the game would be too unbalanced if they could convert someone every night.

Your post #266:
Jeebs, I think it is safe to say that he wasn't converted last night - perhaps an original thing, but not much in the description to make me lean that way.

Coffee - based on Day 1 posts, I don't think that Raiders started as a Thing.

Jeebs (directed at you since you are around and have seen the movie) - do the conversions in the movies involve an audible component? Or are they silent, giving the other scientists no clue when a conversion has taken place? Or was it some mixture of both? Just trying to understand if there is a game mechanic that I should be looking for in Schmidty's posts to understand if a conversion took place.

We've been making the assumption that they get a conversion every night. I'm going to be surprised at the end of the game if that is the case, unless the scientists have some pretty potent roles to help combat this. I think it is more likely they have a set number of conversions over the course of the game - perhaps one on even numbered days (starting with Day 2) or on even numbered days? If a scenario like this is the case then it would make sense that there was nothing in the description last night to indicate a conversion.

It seemed as if you either ignored or didn’t read my previous posts carefully enough when I asked for thoughts.

Your post #444:
Mostly Trusted:
Mckerney (3rd vote on Saldana)
Raiders (Scientist Day 1, voted for Thing on Day 2, posted relatively late and didn't move away from Thing in 5-4 vote)
Cronin (targeted by Thing yesterday)
To which I responded in post #477:
I voted for saldana both days.
To which you did not respond. IMHO, you have either had some slip-ups in reading posts or they were intentional oversights. This is why I said you’ve been doing stuff like that all game.

[Raiders Army]

The whole "he voted for saldana so he would be a good target for conversion" is possible, but no more plausible than any other conversion strategy. Interestingly enough, my vote for dubb was based upon him voting for saldana and vice versa the first day and then switching his vote off saldana. Wouldn't that be a more viable candidate for the target for conversion?
I want to change the last sentence to "Wouldn't that be a more viable candidate for the target for conversion or he could possibly be an original Thing since they voted for each other on Day 1?"

[hoopsguy]

On those re-posts I still don't see where I said anything to hamper your position. In one I said that I didn't think you started as the Thing and in the second I suggest that your Day 2 actions don't suggest you were the convert, since you voted for Saldana.

If I missed responding directly to a post, it is most likely because my last few days have been fairly hectic at the office and I'm reading in chunks, then responding to what I think is the most critical idea at the time. Your Day 2 vote for Saldana in a 5-4 race was much more important to me than your Day 1 vote for him when he wasn't really in jeopardy down the stretch.

[JeeberD]

Wake up, drunk ass! :D ;)


Awww, damn. It's still only 6:30 in Schmidty-land.

[Raiders Army]

On those re-posts I still don't see where I said anything to hamper your position.
Those posts weren't meant to illustrate you "hampering my position". They were meant to illustrate how you've missed stuff all game. I can understand work intruding in on the game, but it seems as if you're not as sharp this time around...whether it's on intentional or not remains to be seen.

[Barkeep49]

The suspense here is killing me.

[st.cronin]

If dubb is a scientist, I want us to look closely at those who voted both for him and Barkeep in the previous vote.

[Schmidty]

The debate is fast and furious this time. Minds are changing every few minutes, but after some strong persuasion, you settle on dubb93 for testing.

With a bemused sigh and a shake of his head, dubb93 tromps to the table and sits down.

"Look, I don't mind being tested, but the more time we waste, the more time those Things have to do what they did to Schmidty and saldana. Well, let's get this over with."

dubb93 grabs the razor, closes his eyes and slices. The blood flows into the dish, and then the test is performed.

A wisp of steam is the only result.

dubb93 is a Scientist.


Night actions will be due by 7 PM EST tonight. If I recieve all actions before then, I will start Day 3 sooner.

[Raiders Army]

[COLOR="Red"]"Look, I don't mind being tested, but the more time we waste, the more time those Things have to do what they did to Schmidty and saldana. Well, let's get this over with."
Interesting results. Bolded part me. Makes me wonder about last night...

[Schmidty]

Interesting results. Bolded part me. Makes me wonder about last night...

I knew someone would say that. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything. It's flavor for the write-up. Besides, even if he was an original Thing, he would still have been converted at some point before the game. So don't read anything into it.

[Barkeep49]

Well this writeup seems to suggest pretty clearly that saldana was a convert. Which make us belive that converts are not covered in the nightly writeup.

[Barkeep49]

Gah. Beaten by the GM.

[st.cronin]

Well this writeup seems to suggest pretty clearly that saldana was a convert. Which make us belive that converts are not covered in the nightly writeup.

Well, in a sense, they're all converts - some were just converted before the game started. At this point, it probably doesn't matter. There's probably 1 original and 1 convert (after night).

I feel pretty sure that Blade is the original.

[Raiders Army]

Well, in a sense, they're all converts - some were just converted before the game started.
Good point. :D

[Raiders Army]

I knew someone would say that. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything. It's flavor for the write-up. Besides, even if he was an original Thing, he would still have been converted at some point before the game. So don't read anything into it.
Not to nitpick, but do you mean don't read anything at all into the statement or don't assume that saldana was converted? If it's the latter, we might be able to assume Qwik was not a Thing.

[st.cronin]

...we might be able to assume Qwik was not a Thing.

Now THAT is an interesting point.

[Schmidty]

Not to nitpick, but do you mean don't read anything at all into the statement or don't assume that saldana was converted? If it's the latter, we might be able to assume Qwik was not a Thing.

You are over-analyzing. Nothing in my write-ups should be given any weight in the game. Period.

[Swaggs]

I think it is pretty clear that Schmidty is indicating that he is not giving anything away in his writeups. So, while we can follow leads from writeups, but most likely they will not give us any new information.

[Swaggs]

So, who all has been cleared by the testing now?

[Barkeep49]

Well as of the start of day 3 Jeeber has been quasi-cleared (2 chances to be converted) and dubb semi-cleared (1 chance to be converted).

[hoopsguy]

What meaning are people putting in the voting records from yesterday? That is something I'm struggling with a little bit at the moment.

If we make the assumption that there was only one Thing yesterday, then we should be able to look back at the last two votes and still extract meaning for the vast majority of the people still left in the game, even with a conversion.

If people don't want to go too far down this path until after night actions are processed I understand ... just throwing it out there for now and hoping that we don't universally discard voting records even if we are pretty sure there is a conversion coming up shortly.

[Barkeep49]

hoops I don't quite get where you're attempting to get the insight with our strike and then miss, at least without knowing what raiders is.

[hoopsguy]

After re-reading the threads before crashing last night I had seen a couple of different people lament that voting records were shot now that we are seeing a conversion. I would maintain, regardless of what role Raiders has, that voting records will still retain value throughout the game. Particularly if we are successful in keeping the number of Things as low as they have been up to this point over the next couple of days.

Obviously it will be easier for us to act with new information from a seer, bodyguard, etc. But if that is not available for us tomorrow I'm hoping that we don't see a rush to dismiss voting records too quickly.

Do you want to talk about specific players now? I would prefer not to give any additional information to the Thing as he goes hunting tonight. But if you think it makes sense in terms of helping the still-active special scientist roles then we can start to go down this path a little bit.

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, what is the plan with WVUfan? I don't think I've seen him in the thread the last two days and I know we have not seen a vote in that time ...

[Raiders Army]

Can someone check this? I had the final count (including the posts at 9:01):

dubb93 (6): JeeberD, tanglewood, Raiders Army, Blade6119, mckerney, Coffee Warlord
Raiders Army (2): hoopsguy, Barkeep49
JeeberD (2): Swaggs, path
hoopsguy (1): dubb93
Blade6119 (1): st. cronin
tanglewood (1): Anxiety

[Schmidty]

Schmidty, what is the plan with WVUfan? I don't think I've seen him in the thread the last two days and I know we have not seen a vote in that time ...

Yeah, I've been thinking about that. I asked a couple of people to replace pennywise earlier in the game but was turned down until Barkeep said yes. I'm not sure who to ask at this point honestly. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.

[Raiders Army]

Just so you guys understand and realize, I was not on the computer after about 7 PM EST last night. Part of it was that I don't care if I'm tested, thus any late switches to votes don't matter to me and the other part was that I wasn't going to switch my vote off dubb.

I'll save my other thoughts after the night actions.

[Schmidty]

Can someone check this? I had the final count (including the posts at 9:01):

dubb93 (6): JeeberD, tanglewood, Raiders Army, Blade6119, mckerney, Coffee Warlord
Raiders Army (2): hoopsguy, Barkeep49
JeeberD (2): Swaggs, path
hoopsguy (1): dubb93
Blade6119 (1): st. cronin
tanglewood (1): Anxiety

That is correct.

[hoopsguy]

Raiders, your counts look right to me - worked off of my Post #609 and made the changes for Blade's vote and my vote that were 8:01 to match your list.

I'm out for awhile, will check back later this afternoon to see if the night actions are processed early.

[Schmidty]

The night passes uneventfully, and thankfully everyone is able to get some actual rest. You wake up refreshed and more determined than ever to eliminate the monsters within your midst.


Day 3 has now begun. Votes will be due by Thursday at 9 p.m. EST (Or whenever everyone has voted).

[Swaggs]

I am going to go ahead and put my vote out now, since I might not be back before 7.

Vote JeeberD

I do not have a whole lot to go on with my vote, other than vote history (which has been pretty all over the place so far, unfortunately), but I just think that, if I were one of the badguys, I would target someone who has been cleared.

If anyone has any compelling reasons for me to switch votes, I'm definitely willing to listen to anything.

[Barkeep49]

Ok hoops I'd be interested to hear your theories.

[Swaggs]

The night passes uneventfully, and thankfully everyone is able to get some actual rest. You wake up refreshed and more determined than ever to eliminate the monsters within your midst.


Day 3 has now begun. Votes will be due by Thursday at 9 p.m. EST (Or whenever everyone has voted).

Whoops. Guess the 7 PM deadline was for night actions. :)

Well, my vote is out there. Plenty of time for debate now, I guess.

[Barkeep49]

Schmidty: Are you going to attempt to replace WVU?

[Schmidty]

Schmidty: Are you going to attempt to replace WVU?

As I said a few posts above, I'm in the process of trying, but if anyone knows of someone who is interested, let me know.

[Raiders Army]

Okay. I'm gonna have to go with a silent conversion here. Damn.

Based on voting patterns, these are my prime suspects at this point:

1. JeeberD, voted twice for a known scientist (Day 2 both votes)
2a and b. Coffee Warlord and Blade 6119, voted for a known scientist (Day 2 2nd vote)

None of the above voted for saldana on day 2.

Next tier is:

4. tanglewood, voted for a known scientist and not sure if his vote counted towards saldana since it was late (at that point, it didn't matter)
5a,b, & c. mckerney, hoopsguy, and Barkeep49, voted for scientists and for saldana

Unknowns: st. cronin, Swaggs, Anxiety, WVUFan. From their votes, we don't know what they voted for.

Possible good guy: path12, voted for saldana, didn't vote for a known scientist

[Barkeep49]

Raiders:

I've voted for 2 people, saldana and you. So I have voted for 0 known scientists at this time. I don't know about hoops or mckerney, but as I was a D1 replacement I have no D1 vote.

[dubb93]

Okay. I'm gonna have to go with a silent conversion here. Damn.

Based on voting patterns, these are my prime suspects at this point:

1. JeeberD, voted twice for a known scientist (Day 2 both votes)
2a and b. Coffee Warlord and Blade 6119, voted for a known scientist (Day 2 2nd vote)

None of the above voted for saldana on day 2.

Next tier is:

4. tanglewood, voted for a known scientist and not sure if his vote counted towards saldana since it was late (at that point, it didn't matter)
5a,b, & c. mckerney, hoopsguy, and Barkeep49, voted for scientists and for saldana

Unknowns: st. cronin, Swaggs, Anxiety, WVUFan. From their votes, we don't know what they voted for.

Possible good guy: path12, voted for saldana, didn't vote for a known scientist

This is so fuckin flawed I don't even know where to begin picking apart this "analysis".

VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

[Blade6119]

I tried this all yesterday, and since i wasnt converted im going to try it again:

Vote Raiders Army

[Blade6119]

This is so fuckin flawed I don't even know where to begin picking apart this "analysis".
Raiders, i gotta agree...that analysis is so misleading its not even funny

[Raiders Army]

Raiders, i gotta agree...that analysis is so misleading its not even funny
I'm glad that you think so. Thanks for taking the time to say why it's misleading. I don't think it is at all, but I've already said why and you haven't.

[Raiders Army]

This is so fuckin flawed I don't even know where to begin picking apart this "analysis".

VOTE RAIDERS ARMY
Maybe because you can't.

[Raiders Army]

Also, facts are facts. They're immutable unlike your pseudo-arguments.

[Blade6119]

I'm glad that you think so. Thanks for taking the time to say why it's misleading. I don't think it is at all, but I've already said why and you haven't.
My official vote and my intended vote went on you, Raiders Army...not Dubb, my swap to avoid a tie was after the deadline. Hoops' vote also fell to WVU, not you(raiders). Your list you made earlier and this one both fail to reflect that. It fails to take into account that CW, Barkeep, Hoops, and myself all tried to move the vote off of a now confirmed villager yesterday, while you and your friends voted and killed him(tested him)...if you want your thing, look at the group who voted for Dubb or the people spread out(the two groups you seem to trust the most...)

Hell, even CW could be counted as on you as his vote came at 6:00 and therefore technically past the deadline based on how you interpret it. But what do i know, im obviously a suspect for trying to save a villager yesterday:rolleyes: ...you taught us quite well thats not your goal, and that we should accuse those that do(you already tore into hoops and myself)

[Blade6119]

Also, facts are facts. They're immutable unlike your pseudo-arguments.
Yes, but somehow you managed to twist them to suit your ill-mannored intentions

[mckerney]

Vote Raiders Army

[Abe Sargent]

Vote Hoopsguy


He said something that distrubed me, but I can't remember what, so on general feeling alone, I vote for him until someone can convience me to vote for someone else.


-Anxiety

[Raiders Army]

My official vote and my intended vote went on you, Raiders Army...not Dubb, my swap to avoid a tie was after the deadline. Hoops' vote also fell to WVU, not you(raiders). Your list you made earlier and this one both fail to reflect that. It fails to take into account that CW, Barkeep, Hoops, and myself all tried to move the vote off of a now confirmed villager yesterday, while you and your friends voted and killed him(tested him)...if you want your thing, look at the group who voted for Dubb or the people spread out(the two groups you seem to trust the most...)

Hell, even CW could be counted as on you as his vote came at 6:00 and therefore technically past the deadline based on how you interpret it. But what do i know, im obviously a suspect for trying to save a villager yesterday:rolleyes: ...you taught us quite well thats not your goal, and that we should accuse those that do(you already tore into hoops and myself)
Regardless, if you read closely you would see that those are my prime suspects. I obviously know that I'm a scientist so I know something you don't. This was coming from my point of view and I never said that it was the gospel according to Blade. I guess you don't see Jeebs as the #1 guy since he voted twice for dubb. My thinking there is pretty flawed, I agree.

[Raiders Army]

Also I find it funny that I'm being looked at as the one who led the charge against dubb. I laid out my argument and left the boards last night two hours before the deadline. If I was so adamant about dubb being a Thing, wouldn't I have stuck around to ensure he was tested? If I were a Thing, wouldn't I have stuck around to defend myself?

In all actuality, I'm not sure I would stick around to defend myself if I were a Thing. If I were in their position a reasonable strategy would be to remain silent since the more you try to fight the votes (ala saldana (albeit briefly)) then the more guilty you look. Somewhat of an interesting twist.

[Raiders Army]

My official vote and my intended vote went on you, Raiders Army...not Dubb
This is an incorrect statement as Schmidty confirmed you voted for dubb in post #657.

[Blade6119]

Also I find it funny that I'm being looked at as the one who led the charge against dubb. I laid out my argument and left the boards last night two hours before the deadline. If I was so adamant about dubb being a Thing, wouldn't I have stuck around to ensure he was tested? If I were a Thing, wouldn't I have stuck around to defend myself?

In all actuality, I'm not sure I would stick around to defend myself if I were a Thing. If I were in their position a reasonable strategy would be to remain silent since the more you try to fight the votes (ala saldana (albeit briefly)) then the more guilty you look. Somewhat of an interesting twist.
You arent being looked at as the leader, but as the best suspect of being a thing if im not mistaken. Your vote for dubb aided my views, and your actions/attitude since that vote have done nothing to alleviate my fears. Trust me, my suspicions of you are far greater then some vote you made. Want me to go back a requote all the reasons i think you are my top suspect? I think you will find i base my ideas off far more then votes in a conversion game, unlike others :p

[Blade6119]

This is an incorrect statement as Schmidty confirmed you voted for dubb in post #657.
Lets shoot him a PM, my vote for Dubb occured at 6:01 and the deadline was 6:00...i think you will find schmidty prob. didnt care to go into great detail once he figured out that no matter what dubb was being tested.

SCHMIDTY, DID MY SWAP TO DUBB AT 6:01 COUNT AS OFFICIAL?

[Coffee Warlord]

Sigh. Alright. I'm not going to let us waste a day on RA.

Make this real simple. Unless he was converted last night, which I doubt due to the pressure on him, RA is a scientist.

Why? I'm the seer. Or in this game, Geneticist.

Scans to date:

Day 1: Hoops (Clean)
Day 2: RA (Clean)

(No, didn't get a Night 0 scan)

Now. The Things can try and convert me if they wish, but they aren't gonna get a lot of mileage out of me, since I'm now common knowledge. I'll be posting my scan results every day. Convert me if you want, but the first time the Things try and use me to false scan someone, the secret will be out.

Also, if converted, if the Things decide to sacrifice one of their own to keep me "safe", I ask that you immediately vote me as the 2nd vote of the night.

'Course, it'd be better if I get bodyguarded. :)

[Raiders Army]

Again, those suspects were based on VOTING PATTERNS. Please re-read the post. Maybe you should quit while you're behind on this line of reasoning as you fly from one argument to the other. You still have not proven why my post #665 is misleading. Bottom line is that those votes counted. The analysis shouldn't be taken for anything more than that.

I did not say that they were anyone else's suspects. I did not say that they were based on "feelings". THEY WERE BASED ON FINAL VOTES. If I were so sure of my list of suspects, I would've voted for JeeberD then and there. Get over yourself.

[Blade6119]

Sigh. Alright. I'm not going to let us waste a day on RA.

Make this real simple. Unless he was converted last night, which I doubt due to the pressure on him, RA is a scientist.

Why? I'm the seer. Or in this game, Geneticist.

Scans to date:

Day 1: Hoops (Clean)
Day 2: RA (Clean)

(No, didn't get a Night 0 scan)

Now. The Things can try and convert me if they wish, but they aren't gonna get a lot of mileage out of me, since I'm now common knowledge. I'll be posting my scan results every day. Convert me if you want, but the first time the Things try and use me to false scan someone, the secret will be out.

Also, if converted, if the Things decide to sacrifice one of their own to keep me "safe", I ask that you immediately vote me as the 2nd vote of the night.

'Course, it'd be better if I get bodyguarded. :)
I wish you hadnt done that...now you are already a thing or about to become one. Tomorrow you could say billy bob was clean and hes a thing and we cant know for sure....i really dont like this play one bit, unless your a thing and trying to save the person who converted you...damn it all to hell, this just got more complicated :(

[Raiders Army]

Okay. Coffee Warlord slipped down my list of suspects a lot. :)

[Blade6119]

Again, those suspects were based on VOTING PATTERNS. Please re-read the post. Maybe you should quit while you're behind on this line of reasoning as you fly from one argument to the other. You still have not proven why my post #665 is misleading. Bottom line is that those votes counted. The analysis shouldn't be taken for anything more than that.

I did not say that they were anyone else's suspects. I did not say that they were based on "feelings". THEY WERE BASED ON FINAL VOTES. If I were so sure of my list of suspects, I would've voted for JeeberD then and there. Get over yourself.
And i contend your list of final votes in innacurate...and i have stated you are going off of votes, which i dont approve of...round and round we go buddy, where we shall stop only schmidty knows :rolleyes:

[Coffee Warlord]

I wish you hadnt done that...now you are already a thing or about to become one. Tomorrow you could say billy bob was clean and hes a thing and we cant know for sure....i really dont like this play one bit, unless your a thing and trying to save the person who converted you...damn it all to hell, this just got more complicated :(

Believe me, I've gone back and forth on doing this. However, the longer I wait, the longer I run the risk of being converted anyway, and any info I've collected becomes useless.

Further, the seer isn't as powerful in this game, as a scan isn't valid all that long. Even if I say someone is clean, they could be clean for what...a day...before it becomes highly questionable.

I'm truly hoping there's a bodyguard as well.

[Blade6119]

Believe me, I've gone back and forth on doing this. However, the longer I wait, the longer I run the risk of being converted anyway, and any info I've collected becomes useless.

Further, the seer isn't as powerful in this game, as a scan isn't valid all that long. Even if I say someone is clean, they could be clean for what...a day...before it becomes highly questionable.

I'm truly hoping there's a bodyguard as well.
I hope so too, but i already viewed you as a top canidate for conversion last night...coupling this on top of that and i just dont know what to think. It just seems that you have cleared raiders and thats it. Tomorrow, i cant trust a word you say...i cant even trust you cleared raiders...damn CW, i so wanted to trust you too

[Raiders Army]

Lets shoot him a PM, my vote for Dubb occured at 6:01 and the deadline was 6:00...i think you will find schmidty prob. didnt care to go into great detail once he figured out that no matter what dubb was being tested.

SCHMIDTY, DID MY SWAP TO DUBB AT 6:01 COUNT AS OFFICIAL?
Shop for the answer you want.

[Coffee Warlord]

Vote Blade

Don't doubt the seer. :)

[Blade6119]

Shop for the answer you want.
Shop for the FACTS...we should all want to shop for the truth :o

[Coffee Warlord]

By the way. Reason #2 my role isn't as good as usual, and it also leads me to believe there may be a second seer out there.

My "seer" power comes from testing a sample of hair. There's a small chance, if I target a Thing, I am detected and converted.

Better to come out now.

[Raiders Army]

Hmmm...with this newfound knowledge of CW,

Remember Qwik voted for hoops on day 1. Makes sense there.

mckerney also slides up the suspect list according to votes since he voted for CW on day 1, saldana day 2, and dubb day 3.

Actually, I made a mistake on my first version.

JeeberD has the worst voting record, voting 3 times for scientists (CW, dubb and dubb)
Blade has the second worst voting record, voting 2 times for scientists (JeeberD and dubb (or me, whatever))
Coffee Warlord also has voted 2 times for scientists (hoops and dubb), but he has claimed the seer role, which I believe

To me, the top two suspects according to voting records (that's for you Blade) are Jeebs and Blade. I'm leaning more towards Blade, obviously.

[Raiders Army]

Shop for the FACTS...we should all want to shop for the truth :o
I tire of this. For the last time, look at post #657. Right now, it's somewhat frustrating trying to talk to you when you ignore that FACT.

[Blade6119]

I tire of this. For the last time, look at post #657. Right now, it's somewhat frustrating trying to talk to you when you ignore that FACT.
I see that, but god forbid schmidty makes a mistake...or he doesnt look at the times of the votes as closely as he should. What would that make him, human?:confused:

[Abe Sargent]

Good reasoning there.

Unvote Hoopsguy

Vote Blade


-Anxiety

[Raiders Army]

I see that, but god forbid schmidty makes a mistake...or he doesnt look at the times of the votes as closely as he should. What would that make him, human?:confused:
He's been in the thread for a while. Stop whining.

[Barkeep49]

Damn it CW I had you as the seer already. I wish you hadn't come out. That's why I asked you yesterday how confident of your vote you were. When you told me not too confident I knew you hadn't scanned him. Damn.

[Blade6119]

Hmmm...with this newfound knowledge of CW,

Remember Qwik voted for hoops on day 1. Makes sense there.

mckerney also slides up the suspect list according to votes since he voted for CW on day 1, saldana day 2, and dubb day 3.

Actually, I made a mistake on my first version.

JeeberD has the worst voting record, voting 3 times for scientists (CW, dubb and dubb)
Blade has the second worst voting record, voting 2 times for scientists (JeeberD and dubb (or me, whatever))
Coffee Warlord also has voted 2 times for scientists (hoops and dubb), but he has claimed the seer role, which I believe

To me, the top two suspects according to voting records (that's for you Blade) are Jeebs and Blade. I'm leaning more towards Blade, obviously.
Like i said yesterday to whoever it was that voted me(jeeber i think)...
Bring it...Ive got nothing to hide, no trusted allies, and a suspicion of everyone. Test me everyday until we lose and it will get you nowhere(until they convert me for a good laugh). Do what you will, but im stating my views as you are yours. My views include your views being wrong, but to each his own. As i said, bring it

[Schmidty]

Looking at my notebook, I shouldn't have agreed with post #654. My final vote count was as follows:

Hoopsguy - Dubb
Tanglewood - Anxiety
Raiders - Blade, Barkeep, hoopsguy
Jeeber - path, Swaggs
Dubb - Raiders Army, mckerney, JeeberD, tanglewood, Coffee Warlord
Blade - st. cronin

I did NOT count the 9:01 votes as they were clearly past the deadline. Sorry if I confused anyone.

[Blade6119]

Looking at my notebook, I shouldn't have agreed with post #654. My final vote count was as follows:

Hoopsguy - Dubb
Tanglewood - Anxiety
Raiders - Blade, Barkeep, hoopsguy
Jeeber - path, Swaggs
Dubb - Raiders Army, mckerney, JeeberD, tanglewood, Coffee Warlord
Blade - st. cronin

I did NOT count the 9:01 votes as they were clearly past the deadline. Sorry if I confused anyone.


Thank you for clearing that up schmidty :)

[Blade6119]

So raiders, care to tell me again how im utterly ignoring the facts and shopping for answers now that schmidty has made a new official list?

[Coffee Warlord]

Damn it CW I had you as the seer already. I wish you hadn't come out. That's why I asked you yesterday how confident of your vote you were. When you told me not too confident I knew you hadn't scanned him. Damn.

Like I said, the Seer role in this game is far weaker than usual. Potential to be converted if I nail someone, and views are "valid' for a very short time. I still wonder if there isn't a second seer, as weak (and damned necessary) as they are.

That, and if you picked up on it, there's always the potential a Thing did. Paranoia on not being able to reveal ANYTHING got me talking.

[Schmidty]

Paranoia on not being able to reveal ANYTHING got me talking.

Paranoia was the main thing I wanted in my game. :)

[WVUFAN]

Guys, I'm here -- I evidently misunderstood how long the game was on hiatus for, so I haven't even been checking the thread. I'm catching up right now.

Like I said earlier, we're still on the path of wanting to test the same person every single time. We're still flying blind, so here's my flying blind vote --

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

[Blade6119]

RAIDERS??? Cat got your tounge?

[JeeberD]

I'll admit, I've got a crappy voting record so far. But trust me when I tell you that I'm still clean. And going off of what CW and RA have said, for now I'm going to...

Vote blade

[Raiders Army]

So raiders, care to tell me again how im utterly ignoring the facts and shopping for answers now that schmidty has made a new official list?
You ignored the fact that was there. You shopped for your answer. And you know what? it doesn't make a difference. You still voted for a scientist.

[Raiders Army]

RAIDERS??? Cat got your tounge?
Was rolling home from work. Also, I see you edited your previous post.

[Raiders Army]

FWIW,

VOTE BLADE6119

Just because his reaction puts him over the top over Jeeber.

[dubb93]

I'm leaving my vote where it is. I assume we have atleast two things at this point, and if you got the seer, it would be a pretty good time for him to come and if he gets killed later say he was turned afterwords. It is very hard to trust people in this version of the game.

[Raiders Army]

You ignored the fact that was there. You shopped for your answer. And you know what? it doesn't make a difference. You still voted for a scientist.
Misdirection is always key when you're on the other side.

[Schmidty]

So raiders, care to tell me again how im utterly ignoring the facts and shopping for answers now that schmidty has made a new official list?

Please do not edit posts. You should know that Blade.

[hoopsguy]

Wow, the game has pretty much exploded. And we have eight people (plus one guest) viewing the thread right now. Very cool indeed, after a pretty slow start.

I've glanced through the posts since the night actions, but it looks like there is a ton to digest here.

- WVU, glad to have you back in the game.

- CW = seer. I had considered this after Barkeep asked about it and discarded it at that time. But thinking back on his posts he did express early on Day 2 that he thought I was on the side of the angels this time. That would be consistent with his thoughts on a Night 1 scan.

[Raiders Army]

I'm leaving my vote where it is. I assume we have atleast two things at this point, and if you got the seer, it would be a pretty good time for him to come and if he gets killed later say he was turned afterwords. It is very hard to trust people in this version of the game.
I'm glad that you are questioning CW. I thought the same thing when looking at my voting spreadsheet. Based upon what I know, I believe him. But looking at it not knowing for sure I am a scientist I see four possibilities:

1. He's a Thing, I'm a Thing. For him to come out like this to "save" me would mean that our situation is dire or the endgame is in sight. I don't think either is the case.

2. He's the Seer, I'm a Thing. This doesn't make any sense unless I'm a Thing that when viewed, am viewed as a Scientist. This is a possibility.

3. He's a Thing, I'm a scientist. Again, I don't see the play here for him to do this, other than gain your trust for one day...and the tradeoff isn't worth it.

4. He's the Seer, I'm a scientist. This is the most likely scenario as he's stated his reasons for coming out at this point.

Scenarios 2 and 3 I throw away. The only one I would be worried about is scenario 1, which I don't see happening numbers-wise. There are 14 of us left. For this gambit to work, I would guess that there would have to be at least 4 things out there.

[tanglewood]

Here's an idea I just had after catching up. Why not just check Coffee Warlord today to see if he is the seer. If he checks out, then we keep voting for him every day afterward and let him do al the seeing at night. That way we have one confirmed good guy and we could unofficially vote for who to view at night. I am sure that there are some downsides to this idea, namely that that we only get one chance to discover a Thing rather than two, but it would be one confirmed chance as opposed with a guarenteed GG as opposed to one chance, another suspect reported chance and no confirmed GGs. What does everyone else think?

[Raiders Army]

With the updated voting, I have Blade as the top suspect.

Day 1: Jeebs (known scientist at that point)
Day 2, vote 1: Barkeep49 (who supposedly killed a Thing)
Day 2, vote 2: dubb (known scientist)
Day 3: Raiders Army (known scientist to me and CW, Alleged Seer scientist to you)

I will go back and see why he didn't vote for saldana and why he voted for Barkeep on the Day 2 vote 1.

[Raiders Army]

Here's an idea I just had after catching up. Why not just check Coffee Warlord today to see if he is the seer. If he checks out, then we keep voting for him every day afterward and let him do al the seeing at night. That way we have one confirmed good guy and we could unofficially vote for who to view at night. I am sure that there are some downsides to this idea, namely that that we only get one chance to discover a Thing rather than two, but it would be one confirmed chance as opposed with a guarenteed GG as opposed to one chance, another suspect reported chance and no confirmed GGs. What does everyone else think?
I think that's a pretty good strategy and I agree with it, but I don't think we should check him today. It's just a wasted check unless you can come up with a plausible scenario as to why he isn't telling the truth.

[WVUFAN]

Thanks, hoopsguy.

I have to say we scientists are REALLY hurting right now, because unlike most WW games, there really isn't anyone safe. Is there anyway any of us can think of to truly establish a "safe" list, given the fact that any one of us could be a scientist one night, and a Thing the next?

Also, does anyone know how many Things the game began with?

[Raiders Army]

As we still have pretty much nothing to go on, and I think, at this point, a vote on Jeeber is a waste (we have to clear some more people first - we can't just do repeat votes on the same person)....

There are a few people I fear as "wolves" always. I want him either cleared or killed.

Vote Raiders Army
This was also post #252 on the Day 2 voting. Interesting because it backs up why he checked me out on Night 2.

[JeeberD]

tanglewood's strategy sounds really solid...

[st.cronin]

Here's an idea I just had after catching up. Why not just check Coffee Warlord today to see if he is the seer. If he checks out, then we keep voting for him every day afterward and let him do al the seeing at night. That way we have one confirmed good guy and we could unofficially vote for who to view at night. I am sure that there are some downsides to this idea, namely that that we only get one chance to discover a Thing rather than two, but it would be one confirmed chance as opposed with a guarenteed GG as opposed to one chance, another suspect reported chance and no confirmed GGs. What does everyone else think?

That's a terrible idea: We need to catch a thing EVERY day. The value of clearing somebody does not come close to the value of the Things increasing their numbers while we hope the seer sees one.

I was convinced Blade was a Thing YESTERDAY, and I remain convinced:

VOTE BLADE

[WVUFAN]

Here's an idea I just had after catching up. Why not just check Coffee Warlord today to see if he is the seer. If he checks out, then we keep voting for him every day afterward and let him do al the seeing at night. That way we have one confirmed good guy ...

Because he's only a confirmed good guy for that night and that night alone. I've never seen anything to indicate that a seer can't be converted to a Thing, and that is precisely the type of option they would do.

My question is why come out as a Seer, knowing that makes you a target? It's fishy, and there's no way to confirm it. It sounds like a bait and switch.

[Barkeep49]

WVU: If CW is a fake he's been planting the seeds for a while. Now there's the chance that he was converted last night, which makes this an interesting play, but CW didn't come out of nowhere with this claim as I definitely saw subtle signs of this when I was going through posts for the six.

[st.cronin]

Because he's only a confirmed good guy for that night and that night alone. I've never seen anything to indicate that a seer can't be converted to a Thing, and that is precisely the type of option they would do.

My question is why come out as a Seer, knowing that makes you a target? It's fishy, and there's no way to confirm it. It sounds like a bait and switch.

I tend to believe he is a seer. I don't think it's a solid strategy for the Things, considering he wasn't really a prime suspect.

[WVUFAN]

WVU: If CW is a fake he's been planting the seeds for a while. Now there's the chance that he was converted last night, which makes this an interesting play, but CW didn't come out of nowhere with this claim as I definitely saw subtle signs of this when I was going through posts for the six.

I'm not saying he's a fake, I'm saying he was a Seer and got converted, and THEN he came forward as a Seer.

[st.cronin]

I'm not saying he's a fake, I'm saying he was a Seer and got converted, and THEN he came forward as a Seer.

I don't understand how that would be a good strategy.

[Barkeep49]

I'm not saying he's a fake, I'm saying he was a Seer and got converted, and THEN he came forward as a Seer.
Gotcha. A definite possiblity.

[Barkeep49]

I don't understand how that would be a good strategy.
Because by coming forward it grants him the presumption of innocence and credibility. Why would we risk wasting a day on our seer? That said I am not willing to risk wasting a day on our seer :D.

[st.cronin]

dola: For example, let's say he claimed RA was clean because they're both Things. So we vote for somebody else, who comes up clean. Both CW and RA shoot to the top of the suspect list.

[st.cronin]

and the possible downside would be tremendous (assuming both RA and CW are things) - if his advice doesn't get heeded, and we vote for RA anyway ... they lose their night cycle and our next vote is unaminous

[WVUFAN]

I don't understand how that would be a good strategy.

Because it does what it's doing right now -- getting groups of people defending him. Isn't that the target of the Things -- establish one Thing as safe, as someone one wouldn't "waste" a vote to test, while the rest convert?

[Raiders Army]

Here's why Blade voted for Barkeep:

Post #282
Vote Barkeep49
:)

To be fair, I also found this:

Post #224
Ummm, i hate to break it to you but we can't really do a damn thing to stop him. Though if i was around(which i wont be much until this weekend), he would have been my vote as he may be a thing that knows he can kill tonight. Sorry to waste a lynch on ya jeebs, and now make you a top suspect tomorrow. My vote that started it was all for fun between mods, didnt really expect you to get the vote.


As for the brilliant thing, here was my post(the first to mention brilliant):



I got it in my PM, i didnt see schmidty lay out any rules against using it as a code to find get on a few trust lists at first. I never saw the other players post the brilliant thing(someone want to quote them all for me). Hoops seemed to just grasp on to the idea, where as dubb and raiders knew what they were talking about. Either way, i think today was a very bad day. I was hoping(damn you raiders) no one would say it out loud, but just see it and go about their days. Now, we have made the Things job far easier and ours far more difficult. They have a couple confirmed villagers, and a couple not. Depending on which way they want to go, either way their job just got a lot easier. Damn you all :(
It seems as if he wants to validate Barkeep, which I can certainly understand; however, I find this interesting:

Post #225
Dola, the one bright spot left is that there are other parts of the PM yet discussed we can still use as a clue if needed. But really, after one conversion that whole key will fall to us. So do you all want to use the other parts of the PM tonight/in the morning? It might at first give us a group to look at. Hell, use it to clear all the villagers we can, and then look at the group of around 6(2-3 things) and just test away

There are two things in here that ring some alarm bells. Anyone who knows what I know will think the same.

[Raiders Army]

Because it does what it's doing right now -- getting groups of people defending him. Isn't that the target of the Things -- establish one Thing as safe, as someone one wouldn't "waste" a vote to test, while the rest convert?
Do you not see the magic of this strategy? Essentially, CW becomes the vote and we validate him. Once we find out he's been converted, the strategy is done with. The only problem with this scenario is that if I were a Thing, I could convert him as soon as possible to negate this strategy. At the very least, it buys us a free conversion.

[WVUFAN]

dola: For example, let's say he claimed RA was clean because they're both Things. So we vote for somebody else, who comes up clean. Both CW and RA shoot to the top of the suspect list.

If I were a Thing (and I'm not), I would save a clean player. If he comes forward and saves Raiders, who is clean, and we test Raiders anyway, it establishes CW as safe.

The whole thing revolves around an action that "proves" CW is safe. What not better than save a clean player? But, you're right, you don't save another Thing, which is why I say Raider's is safe, but Coffee isn't.

[Raiders Army]

If I were a Thing (and I'm not), I would save a clean player. If he comes forward and saves Raiders, who is clean, and we test Raiders anyway, it establishes CW as safe.

The whole thing revolves around an action that "proves" CW is safe. What not better than save a clean player? But, you're right, you don't save another Thing, which is why I say Raider's is safe, but Coffee isn't.
Again, see my post #715. Scenario 3. All it nets him is 24 hours of trust. That's it. The tradeoff isn't worth it.

[st.cronin]

If I were a Thing (and I'm not), I would save a clean player. If he comes forward and saves Raiders, who is clean, and we test Raiders anyway, it establishes CW as safe.

The whole thing revolves around an action that "proves" CW is safe. What not better than save a clean player? But, you're right, you don't save another Thing, which is why I say Raider's is safe, but Coffee isn't.

No, I disagree - I think a Thing would only bust out this strategy if one of their own were about to get tested. Or, possibly, they might use it as an endgame strategy. So if RA is clean, then CW is clean, and vice versa. I mean, I know that in this game the bad play is sometimes the good play, but all the attention was on RA: Who had CW as a real suspect?

[WVUFAN]

Again, see my post #715. Scenario 3. All it nets him is 24 hours of trust. That's it. The tradeoff isn't worth it.

Why only one day? Day 1 -- Coffee saves you, and you're clean.
Day 2 -- You're tested -- you're clean. Coffee becomes safe.

Why would someone else vote for Coffee? He's saves you, and you're not a Thing. FOr most, that validates Coffee.

[WVUFAN]

No, I disagree - I think a Thing would only bust out this strategy if one of their own were about to get tested. Or, possibly, they might use it as an endgame strategy. So if RA is clean, then CW is clean, and vice versa. I mean, I know that in this game the bad play is sometimes the good play, but all the attention was on RA: Who had CW as a real suspect?

No one did. So why come forward as a Seer, knowing that targets you?

[Raiders Army]

Why only one day? Day 1 -- Coffee saves you, and you're clean.
Day 2 -- You're tested -- you're clean. Coffee becomes safe.

Why would someone else vote for Coffee? He's saves you, and you're not a Thing. FOr most, that validates Coffee.
You can only trust someone for one day. We always have to take into account the possibility of him being converted that night.

[WVUFAN]

dola -- Lemme make it official:

UNVOTE TANGLEWOOD
VOTE COFFEE WARLORD

[st.cronin]

No one did. So why come forward as a Seer, knowing that targets you?

See: It only makes sense IF he's really the seer, and he knew RA was clean. Otherwise, if either CW or both were Things, the strategy makes NO sense.

[Coffee Warlord]

I direct you all to watch the people pushing for me for later voting.

[WVUFAN]

See: It only makes sense IF he's really the seer, and he knew RA was clean. Otherwise, if either CW or both were Things, the strategy makes NO sense.

That's not what I'm saying -- I'm not saying RA is a Thing. I'm saying Coffee was converted early, and RA is clean.

You guys say, and correctly so, that it only saves CW for one day. That's the case for EVERYONE. I'm saying, and it's showing from his defenders here, that he will get the benefit of the doubt EACH night. If you guys don't at least try and test him tonight, by the time there's enough votes to test him again, it'll be too late.

[Raiders Army]

Dude, whatever. I've drunk too much beer at this point to argue with you. I'll either assume you don't see what's going on since you've been AWOL or you're a Thing.

[Coffee Warlord]

That's not what I'm saying -- I'm not saying RA is a Thing. I'm saying Coffee was converted early, and RA is clean.

You guys say, and correctly so, that it only saves CW for one day. That's the case for EVERYONE. I'm saying, and it's showing from his defenders here, that he will get the benefit of the doubt EACH night. If you guys don't at least try and test him tonight, by the time there's enough votes to test him again, it'll be too late.

Yes yes, if you don't trust me and think I was converted, the following is meaningless.

Part of the reason I came out was to try and force us to NOT focus on someone who is almost certainly Not A Thing. We waste a day if we vote RA, which is where it was headed. We waste a day if we vote me (AND my role is blown), which is what I was trying to avoid in the first place.

[Coffee Warlord]

Dude, whatever. I've drunk too much beer at this point to argue with you. I'll either assume you don't see what's going on since you've been AWOL or you're a Thing.

Frankly, I'm thinking he's the latter.

[tanglewood]

Okay, if my previous suggestion has been passed on (I'd still like everyone to at least chip in with what they think), then I reckon that today we should test one of the prime suspects who are being banded about, my preference would be one from Barkeep (to still go back and try to confirm Quik's death, I do notice that he hasn't been swearing etc. lately), JeeberD or Blade. Others may want to go after RA or whomever. Then at night Coffee Warlord has another viewing, in the morning reports his viewing, and we test him to confrim/deny veracity.

[st.cronin]

That's not what I'm saying -- I'm not saying RA is a Thing. I'm saying Coffee was converted early, and RA is clean.

You guys say, and correctly so, that it only saves CW for one day. That's the case for EVERYONE. I'm saying, and it's showing from his defenders here, that he will get the benefit of the doubt EACH night. If you guys don't at least try and test him tonight, by the time there's enough votes to test him again, it'll be too late.

Not to get testy, but you're not remotely addressing the logic that I'm presenting. Coffee was NOT a suspect. Assuming he's a Thing, why bust out a new strategy? There's absolutely ZERO upside, unless both he and RA are Things - then it could maybe buy them another day. But the downside is enormous in that situation. It's a massively risky strategy.

Possibility 1: CW is seer, and RA is clean. I would have done the same thing he did.

Possibility 2: CW is Thing, and RA is clean. In this case, why not let RA get tested? CW would then get one more Thing.

Possibility 3: CW is Thing, and RA is Thing: Here the strategy would make SOME sense, but it would also be highly risky, because some players would want to test CW right away (as you do). Others would still want to test RA, either way CW or RA gets tested, they lose a night cycle, and whichever one didn't get bbqed first, gets bbqed second.

[WVUFAN]

Frankly, I'm thinking he's the latter.

Excellent. Well, if y'all are gonna waste a test, might as well be on me. Go ahead and test away. It just gives CW and the other Things more time to convert.

But, absolutely, test ahead.