Werewolf XXXI: House of Frankenstein (Game Over)

[Fouts]

It is good to know that Lathum and I were right all along. Both of us are villagers.

[st.cronin]

just want to thank St. Cronin for running a great game, eat you next time

You're welcome! I'm having a blast.

[Barkeep49]

just want to thank St. Cronin for running a great game, eat you next time
Oh and I told you that you'd have no problem living past D1.

[Abe Sargent]

This points to Blade almost too much... I'm not sure what to think about that.


I agree, and I think it is a clear setup. You don't usually get this kind of an orgy of information, except against hoopsguy in my game :)

[molson]

I would like to applaud the wolves. I bet Blade is a villager, and now instead of wasting one day killing Blade, we'll waste two days going after Blade tomorrow.



The wolves didn't do anything. Reiman doesn't know who the wolves are (though he might have lucked on and learned 1's identity by now), and in any event, they can't pm each other, unless I'm mistaken.

[Grammaticus]

I would like to applaud the wolves. I bet Blade is a villager, and now instead of wasting one day killing Blade, we'll waste two days going after Blade tomorrow.


*applauds*

Sometimes I feel like the Cassandra character of our little play.
No, it probably means Blade is a wolf, with a smaller chance he is Dr. Raimen.

Likely, the Dr would have tested Blades blood during the first night and knew if he was good or bad and therefore worth saving or damning.

Schmidty is a good guess on the accomplice as his "4 word PM" was after Blade posted "I am a villager".

Everytime I have watched Blade die it has been after a vigerous defense, except when he was the Duke. Even then it was grandeur all the way.

[Abe Sargent]

It is good to know that Lathum and I were right all along. Both of us are villagers.


Stop lumping yourself in with Lathum. He was a villager. As to you?

[Blade6119]

Does anyone see any good reason why Reimann would use his sole defense to save Blade and/or knock out Lathum?

I am leaning towards thinking that Blade is Reimann, acting on self preservation.
Either he thinks im a wolf like everyone else and wanted to save me(he doesnt know the wolves), or he figures this will buy them at least 1 day, prob. more as someone else will stand out when you all lynch me. This move might have just won them the game, as outlandish as it says, as the group will be totally focused on myself, and to some extent fouts and anxiety now, right or wrong.

[Abe Sargent]

The wolves didn't do anything. Reiman doesn't know who the wolves are (though he might have lucked on and learned 1's identity by now), and in any event, they can't pm each other, unless I'm mistaken.


Sorry molson, you are technically right. I meant the wolves generally as the bad guys, but since in this game the wolves are an actual faction of the bad guys, I should have been more specific and called them the antagonists

[Grammaticus]

The wolves didn't do anything. Reiman doesn't know who the wolves are (though he might have lucked on and learned 1's identity by now), and in any event, they can't pm each other, unless I'm mistaken.
The wolves can PM each other. But Dr. R cannot PM with the wolves. But if Dr. R tested Blade and determined he was a wolf, he would now use his change to save him.

[Grammaticus]

Either he thinks im a wolf like everyone else and wanted to save me(he doesnt know the wolves), or he figures this will buy them at least 1 day, prob. more as someone else will stand out when you all lynch me. This move might have just won them the game, as outlandish as it says, as the group will be totally focused on myself, and to some extent fouts and anxiety now, right or wrong.
Nice of you to leave out the fact he can test each day.

[Grammaticus]

Well, I gotta step out and help plan our trip to Washington DC. I love DC, there is just so much to do!

[Blade6119]

Nice of you to leave out the fact he can test each day.
I honestly didnt remember he could...if he can, i suppose that argument goes out the window if you think he tested me.

[SnDvls]

wow my head hasn't spun this much since the first x-com game I played in.

This totally smells of set up to me.. I guess we'll have to see what happens in the night actions to really get a good read on it.

[tanglewood]

I honestly didnt remember he could...if he can, i suppose that argument goes out the window if you think he tested me.

If I were Dr. Reimman, Blade would be one of the first player's I'd test, so I think it's likely, whether you are wolf or villager, that Reimann knows what you are.

Of course, it could be a newbie player who is the Reimann so could possibly a) Not have known who the vets were and tested random people (i.e. not Blade) and b) Have tested Lathum, found he was a villager and panicked as the vote moved away from him deciding to move it back.

Of course, Blade could be Reimann himself. His whole 'I am a villager, I will not fight against my accusers, what's the point?' defence in the last 15 ins or so before the lynch could suggest someone who knew he wasn't going to be lynched tonight.

[Blade6119]

Best of luck villagers, hope you guys can turn this ship around! Been fun playing with everyone, especially the new players! Go Team Villager!!!
If i was the duke/reimann, i wouldnt have made this post...i would have sat there and smiled, and i would have swapped it to fouts.

[st.cronin]

I have all night actions, results coming.

[bulletsponge]

lol, i bet Lathum shit a brick when he found out Blade outplayed him and he was the one who died :)

[molson]

Here's the scenerios as I see them - what am I leaving out?

1. Blade was Dr. R. If you know you're dead, you might as well use your power, especially knowing that you could play it off as a wolf diversion tactic the next day. I can see this.

2. Blade was a wolf, and Dr. R knew it. It would seem that this would lead to an obvious Blade lynching the next day, but Dr. R might figure that due to Blade's prominence in the game, they're be some confusion and controversy regardless. I can see this too.

3. Blade was a villager, and Dr. M knew it. Would Dr. R. use his power to kill one villager instead of another? It seems illogical. Dr. R could be trying to get us to lynch Blade, but is 1 dead villager really worth using the power, when we were all willing to lynch Blade anyway?

4. Dr. R didn't know Blade's identity - It seems completely nonsensical that Dr. R would use his power blindly - unless he felt like he didn't have long to live himself. But there's nobody who's really in those shoes at this point. And also, as has been stated, Blade would probably be the first one Dr. R would test (and he'd certaintly be in the top 3).

[bulletsponge]

oooh the night action. *puts on his garlic necklace and silver cross*

[Blade6119]

lol, i bet Lathum shit a brick when he found out Blade outplayed him and he was the one who died :)
I admit, i would have paid to see lathums face when he read that. I didnt do it, but it would have been funny.

In all honesty, lathum outplayed me today. He swung a vote with like 20 minutes left, convinced everyone a COT was evil, and set up fouts with himself as a buffer in case he was wrong. Lathum played a great game of WW today, and i couldnt match it without a little help from dr. reimann./ Bravo lathum

[Fouts]

lol, i bet Lathum shit a brick when he found out Blade outplayed him and he was the one who died :)

No, blade was outplayed and caught. Blade was lucky enough to have an ace in his pocket that the rest of us don't have.

[st.cronin]

You are woken from your sleep by screams and sounds of struggle coming from Fouts house - you dash over to discover that somehow, Frankenstein's monster has returned! Fouts has been torn limb from limb, but by now you all are used to bloodshed, and you rush the monster with pitchforks and torches. Through the night you pursue him, and corner him, and kill him. Taking stock after the battle, you realize that one of you is missing - GoldenEagle! You dash to his house, and discover that, like AlanT and saldana, he has been murdered by werewolves! Two dead in one night! The sun is rising ... what will you do today?

DAY 4 HAS BEGUN - Deadline 8:30PM Thursday

[Fouts]

Not a smart move. Good luck guys.

[molson]

Well, at least all the evil powers are gone now.

[Blade6119]

No, blade was outplayed and caught. Blade was lucky enough to have an ace in his pocket that the rest of us don't have.
When i come up clean, did lathum really out-play me by taking the lynch off of you, a potential wolf, and onto me, a villager. Just saying, reimann aside, he moved it from you to me, and im a villager. Only when you and i both die, can we say who out-played who

[bulletsponge]

fudge on a stick! frankenstiens monster. i so bet blade is the evil dr now, he used both his ace cards because he knew he wouldnt live past tomorow to use the monster

[Blade6119]

Ok, now i just look plain bad...i got outplayed, disregard my last comment

[Fouts]

When i come up clean, did lathum really out-play me by taking the lynch off of you, a potential wolf, and onto me, a villager. Just saying, reimann aside, he moved it from you to me, and im a villager. Only when you and i both die, can we say who out-played who

Save your breath, I'm dead. I'll see you soon.

[Blade6119]

Save your breath, I'm dead. I'll see you soon.
Cant wait...man, we have really screwed this game to hell so far...

[DaddyTorgo]

huh? is this how reiman would change the vote?

[Blade6119]

huh? is this how reiman would change the vote?
Reimann changed the vote from me to lathum, killing him...he then summoned frankenstein and killed fouts...GE got torn limb to limb by the wolves, and im getting lynched tomorrow...thats the recap

[molson]

Hold the phones - if we think Blade is Dr. R, it's in our best interest to keep him alive now - since he counts as a HUMAN in the standings. And without his powers, he's now impotent. Correct? (We'd just have to make sure his lone vote doesn't hurt us)

I'm not saying I'm convinced he's Dr. R, as oppossed to the wolf, but he sure does seem resigned to his fate now, doesn't he?

[Abe Sargent]

The wolves have forced a vote on Blade tomorrow by eliminating the alternative - Fouts. Nice.

[Blade6119]

The wolves have forced a vote on Blade tomorrow by eliminating the alternative - Fouts. Nice.
Anyone notice that in the lynch and night action, MY ENTIRE TOP 3 FROM THE RANDOM VOTE LIST GOT KILLED...do you all really think i would do that as a bad guy??????????

[Chief Rum]

Sheesh, is that three villagers dead in an hour?

Just to be certain, though--did that night action say either Fouts or GE were villagers? Or is it assumed since the action didn't say otherwise?

[Abe Sargent]

I honestly beleive Blade is a villager now. Here's why:

If you were continuing the "Kill the vets," then you wouldn't have used your frankie power to off Fouts. GE at least makes sense because he's been the best of the new players, but Fouts?

Why would the bad guys have killed a villager that had heat on him? The only rational reason to me seems to eb that they are continuing the Blade setup. Three players, SnDvls, Swaggs and myself metionened that we were unsure Blade was a bad guy and smelled a setup. So the baddies eliminated teh other alternative, leaving just Blade as an option

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah i thought i was caught up but didn't see the whole last page.

HOLY SHIT. An orgy of blood.

[tanglewood]

Anyone notice that in the lynch and night action, MY ENTIRE TOP 3 FROM THE RANDOM VOTE LIST GOT KILLED...do you all really think i would do that as a bad guy??????????

Or you're a wolf, who's entire top 3 were all villagers, and was saved by Dr, Reimann without your foreknowledge.

[Abe Sargent]

Anyone notice that in the lynch and night action, MY ENTIRE TOP 3 FROM THE RANDOM VOTE LIST GOT KILLED...do you all really think i would do that as a bad guy??????????


Another very good point. Blade is a better player than this. I have personally seen good players with tons of heat deflect it away, and Blade could have done so.

[Blade6119]

Sheesh, is that three villagers dead in an hour?

Just to be certain, though--did that night action say either Fouts or GE were villagers? Or is it assumed since the action didn't say otherwise?
Post 1, they were both villagers

[Blade6119]

Or you're a wolf, who's entire top 3 were all villagers, and was saved by Dr, Reimann without your foreknowledge.
Ya, so to top it off i as a wolf kill GE, becuase whats more fun then eliminating every suspect but me for i could move the vote to

[DaddyTorgo]

I honestly beleive Blade is a villager now. Here's why:

If you were continuing the "Kill the vets," then you wouldn't have used your frankie power to off Fouts. GE at least makes sense because he's been the best of the new players, but Fouts?

Why would the bad guys have killed a villager that had heat on him? The only rational reason to me seems to eb that they are continuing the Blade setup. Three players, SnDvls, Swaggs and myself metionened that we were unsure Blade was a bad guy and smelled a setup. So the baddies eliminated teh other alternative, leaving just Blade as an option

i agree. this to me doesn't make me think that blade is a wolf, unless he's playing a hell of a game. he may be reiman sure, but reiman counts as a human so there's no reason to lynch him anymore, and even less considering reiman can lead us to wolves with his blood-testing.

[Schmidty]

I'm going to have to pull out of this one guys.

I've missed two votes in a row, and I don't want to screw up the game any further.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ya, so to top it off i as a wolf kill GE, becuase whats more fun then eliminating every suspect but me for i could move the vote to

very true. if you're blade and a wolf, do you eliminate every possible person with heat except for yourself? doesn't make any sense. and if you're blade and reiman we want to keep you alive so we can use your blood-testing ability. and if you're blade and a villager, you're not one we want to kill.

[Abe Sargent]

st. cronin, I havea question about what you mean regarding Reiman. You say he counts as a human for victory. Does this mean he wins if humans win? Or that he counts as a human when tabulating the wolf:human ratio but still wins as a wolf?

[tanglewood]

Okay, to those who are hypothesising a set up:

If not Blade, then who should we lynch today? Even if it is likely Blade has been set up, which I am skeptical of at this point, surely the likelyhood that Blade is either a wolf or Dr. Reimann is higher than any other player at this point. Isn't it worth taking a chance even if you think he may not be?

My current thinking is that Blade is a wolf who was saved by the Dr. without his knowledge. But then I dunno, my head is spinning at the moment with all the possibilities.

[Chief Rum]

i agree. this to me doesn't make me think that blade is a wolf, unless he's playing a hell of a game. he may be reiman sure, but reiman counts as a human so there's no reason to lynch him anymore, and even less considering reiman can lead us to wolves with his blood-testing.

But Reimann fetched the wolves and Count Dracula on us. Why would he help the villagers? They even voted to kill Blade (if he's Dr. R).

[DaddyTorgo]

Okay, to those who are hypothesising a set up:

If not Blade, then who should we lynch today? Even if it is likely Blade has been set up, which I am skeptical of at this point, surely the likelyhood that Blade is either a wolf or Dr. Reimann is higher than any other player at this point. Isn't it worth taking a chance even if you think he may not be?

My current thinking is that Blade is a wolf who was saved by the Dr. without his knowledge. But then I dunno, my head is spinning at the moment with all the possibilities.

we don't want to lynch reiman though. he counts as a human.

but that's true what anxiety asked, does reiman win if the humans win, or does he win if the wolves win?

ie...who is he interested in helping, wolves or humans? that's important for us to know before we decide if we want to chase after reiman

[Blade6119]

very true. if you're blade and a wolf, do you eliminate every possible person with heat except for yourself? doesn't make any sense. and if you're blade and reiman we want to keep you alive so we can use your blood-testing ability. and if you're blade and a villager, you're not one we want to kill.
If i am reiman, i wont help you one bit...he wins with the wolves, but just counts as a villager in the wolf-villager ratio that wins the game...if i was reiman, id say i was going to help you then feed you the wrong info.

Im not reiman though, im a simple villager who now has two suspects i am quite keen on(unlike yesterday where i didnt care who i voted for, hence the random number i asked you for)

[molson]

I'm leaning towards a Blade vote.

Even if he's Dr. R, and counts as a villager, he'll still stir up trouble and convince some new COT that it was a setup.

[molson]

but that's true what anxiety asked, does reiman win if the humans win, or does he win if the wolves win?


I'm pretty sure he on the wolves' team, but counts as a human in terms of standings. So if we think he's Dr. R, and we kept him around, we'd have to keep him contained. Which may not be worth the trouble.

[tanglewood]

very true. if you're blade and a wolf, do you eliminate every possible person with heat except for yourself? doesn't make any sense. and if you're blade and reiman we want to keep you alive so we can use your blood-testing ability. and if you're blade and a villager, you're not one we want to kill.

Isn't this flawed logic? Why not Blade is Wolf/Reimann, he makes the really obvious plays, then defends himself by saying 'Well, if I was a Wolf/Reimann I wouldn't be stupid enoungh to make the obvious play' and gets people to say 'Yeah you're right'. Isn't there an element of not seeing the forest for the trees going on here?

[hoopsguy]

I agree, and I think it is a clear setup. You don't usually get this kind of an orgy of information, except against hoopsguy in my game http://fof.sportplanet.gamespy.com//forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Or against Hoopsguy in Spawn 2. Blah.

[Blade6119]

If not Blade, then who should we lynch today?
I have two targets, one much higher then the other, but no one will believe me and i dont have much evidence other then a strong gut feeling(i havent had this feeling yet this game, its the first time i actually think i have a wolf, maybe two)

[Chief Rum]

If i am reiman, i wont help you one bit...he wins with the wolves, but just counts as a villager in the wolf-villager ratio that wins the game...if i was reiman, id say i was going to help you then feed you the wrong info.

Im not reiman though, im a simple villager who now has two suspects i am quite keen on(unlike yesterday where i didnt care who i voted for, hence the random number i asked you for)

If you have two suspects, why don't you share them? It may not save you, but I will be at least interested to hear who you picked and why. Personally, I don't know who to vote for after you right now.

[molson]

I have two targets, one much higher then the other, but no one will believe me and i dont have much evidence other then a strong gut feeling(i havent had this feeling yet this game, its the first time i actually think i have a wolf, maybe two)

You're not going to share?

[tanglewood]

Aargh, this whole scenario is fragging my brain right now.

[tanglewood]

I have two targets, one much higher then the other, but no one will believe me and i dont have much evidence other then a strong gut feeling(i havent had this feeling yet this game, its the first time i actually think i have a wolf, maybe two)

Well, you've got nothing to lose if you're a good guy, and if you're bad then you'd sow more confusion. So I don't see why you don't share them with us.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'll be voting before i go to bed tonight, as i'll be working tomorrow from 11am until around deadline, so hopefully we have some meaningful discussion tonight so my vote isn't a throwaway

[Blade6119]

You're not going to share?
1.Chief Rum
2.Anxiety

Chief far higher then anxiety...i only really suspect anxiety becuase he is 100% right, and has been every step of the way through this. Usually only bad guys are right all the time, as they know who is bad and who is good, so they know which good guys to defend. Im my esteemed opinion, anxiety is Dr. Reiman, as i see him making those genious moves(but making him less of a threat now, as he counts as a villager). But generally, only the bad guys are always right.

Chief, oh chief, is a wolf to me. He was up for lynch on day 1, but got saved, and since then has made comment after comment that has thrown up red flags for me(especially about his one after the night kill asking if they were villagers). Chief is by far my top target today, and it would take a miracle for me to vote for anyone but one of these 2, and a minor miracle for me to vote anyone but chief. He reeks of wolf to me, and i want him dead.

[Swaggs]

So, who all, that is left, are the late breakers that voted for Blade? Those guys will draw some suspicion from me.

[GoldenEagle]

Well guys, I had fun. I will be following along with interest.

Sign me up for the next one!

[Blade6119]

oh, forgot this

[B]VOTE CHIEF RUM[/B}

[Blade6119]

grrr
VOTE CHIEF RUM

[hoopsguy]

By the way, having a lot of fun reading the last couple of hundred posts today. Looks like the last couple of hours would have been very fun to play.

[molson]

I'm going to have to pull out of this one guys.

I've missed two votes in a row, and I don't want to screw up the game any further.

So do we replace him?

[Barkeep49]

I vounteer to replace the schmidty.

[Barkeep49]

DOLA -- That way I have justification for posting more than hoops.

[Blade6119]

So do we replace him?
We try to certainly...cronin should take care of it

[Blade6119]

I vounteer to replace the schmidty.
awwww crap...were screwed...we might as well all just give up now:p

[molson]

I vounteer to replace the schmidty.

Don't tell anybody how many words your pm is.

[Schmidty]

So do we replace him?

I PMed cronin. If he can find someone else, then I will bow out. If he can't I'll have to stay in.

I'd like to stay in since I will have more time soon (for various reasons), but I've also been so inactive that I feel obligated to give up my spot to someone else.

[Chief Rum]

Chief, oh chief, is a wolf to me. He was up for lynch on day 1, but got saved, and since then has made comment after comment that has thrown up red flags for me(especially about his one after the night kill asking if they were villagers). Chief is by far my top target today, and it would take a miracle for me to vote for anyone but one of these 2, and a minor miracle for me to vote anyone but chief. He reeks of wolf to me, and i want him dead.

Well, I asked for suspects... :rolleyes:

Okay, that makes sense. I'm not a wolf, but I am a newb. Did you notice that?

On Day 1, I made the mistake of not wanting to "waste my vote on a random pick", thinking with my real life head rather than in WW strategy. In retrospect, I'm not surprised Swaggs went after me for that. How does that mean I'm a wolf? It just means I'm a WW newb and dummy.

And how does that second comment make me a wolf? I thought st. cronin was supposed to say in his actions whether they were villagers or not. So because I'm not used to the Post 1 thing and ask what ends up being a silly question, that makes me a wolf? No, I'm still just a dumb newb.

Oh well, I guess I should have expected you would do what you could to save yourself.

[Schmidty]

I vounteer to replace the schmidty.

Damn, I was hoping no one would volunteer, because I wanted to redeem myself. Oh well. :(

[Barkeep49]

I PMed cronin. If he can find someone else, then I will bow out. If he can't I'll have to stay in.

I'd like to stay in since I will have more time soon (for various reasons), but I've also been so inactive that I feel obligated to give up my spot to someone else.
It's your spot. If you can start playing the game you should start playing and keep your spot. If you don't feel like you can play then I would be happy to take your spot. But the key is that it is your spot and you should do with it what you think is best.

[Schmidty]

It's your spot. If you can start playing the game you should start playing and keep your spot. If you don't feel like you can play then I would be happy to take your spot. But the key is that it is your spot and you should do with it what you think is best.

I'm conflicted. I want to keep playing, but I'm so far behind, I don't know how I'm going to A) catch up on all the info and B) restore any faith in me and my role in the game.

[Chief Rum]

Oh yeah. And...

VOTE BLADE

[Schmidty]

Ok, I've thought it over, and I'm going to officially abdicate my throne to Barkeep.

[Blade6119]

Well, I asked for suspects... :rolleyes:

Okay, that makes sense. I'm not a wolf, but I am a newb. Did you notice that?

On Day 1, I made the mistake of not wanting to "waste my vote on a random pick", thinking with my real life head rather than in WW strategy. In retrospect, I'm not surprised Swaggs went after me for that. How does that mean I'm a wolf? It just means I'm a WW newb and dummy.

And how does that second comment make me a wolf? I thought st. cronin was supposed to say in his actions whether they were villagers or not. So because I'm not used to the Post 1 thing and ask what ends up being a silly question, that makes me a wolf? No, I'm still just a dumb newb.

Oh well, I guess I should have expected you would do what you could to save yourself.
Your actually far smarter then you want to appear. Your posts look like your trying to use the noob thing as cover, and this post only exemplifies that. You are a wolf disguised as a noob, cleverly snaking to victory, Your day one no-vote was not a factor. You seem like your trying to hard to seem like a rookie, but i think underneath that your a wolf playing a clever trick

[Barkeep49]

Ok, I've thought it over, and I'm going to officially abdicate my throne to Barkeep.
Hot damn! I get a throne! SWEET. I've always wanted someone to abdicate a royal title to me. I mean I was hoping it would be some middle eatern country with oil, but beggars can't be choosers!

[Barkeep49]

All joking aside, I hope everything's alright with you schmidty. I remember a couple games back life not being so hot for you and hope that things are improving even if they kept you away from this game.

[Abe Sargent]

1.Chief Rum
2.Anxiety

Chief far higher then anxiety...i only really suspect anxiety becuase he is 100% right, and has been every step of the way through this. Usually only bad guys are right all the time, as they know who is bad and who is good, so they know which good guys to defend. Im my esteemed opinion, anxiety is Dr. Reiman, as i see him making those genious moves(but making him less of a threat now, as he counts as a villager). But generally, only the bad guys are always right.

Chief, oh chief, is a wolf to me. He was up for lynch on day 1, but got saved, and since then has made comment after comment that has thrown up red flags for me(especially about his one after the night kill asking if they were villagers). Chief is by far my top target today, and it would take a miracle for me to vote for anyone but one of these 2, and a minor miracle for me to vote anyone but chief. He reeks of wolf to me, and i want him dead.


You guys....this game....I mean, you houldn't have. It's like your brought me roses! First someone claimed that I am offically a WW vet, and now. Ah shucks Blade. Blade thinks I'm a good player.

Thanks buddy.


Of course, if I am a good enough player to manipulate things behind the scenes for the wolves, then I'm also a good enough player to sniff things out as a villager, right? So all you have here is circular logic.

[Schmidty]

All joking aside, I hope everything's alright with you schmidty. I remember a couple games back life not being so hot for you and hope that things are improving even if they kept you away from this game.

Thanks for the concern. Everything's ok, but I started yet another new job two weeks ago, and the schedules have been all wacked out because of my wife's job, and daycare stuff for our daughter. I haven't had much freetime, and when I have, my wife has been making me do stuff that she wants to do (like dinner last night).

Hopefully, things will settle down, and I'll be able to get back to being my normal, defensive self in the next WW game. :)

[Blade6119]

You guys....this game....I mean, you houldn't have. It's like your brought me roses! First someone claimed that I am offically a WW vet, and now. Ah shucks Blade. Blade thinks I'm a good player.

Thanks buddy.


Of course, if I am a good enough player to manipulate things behind the scenes for the wolves, then I'm also a good enough player to sniff things out as a villager, right? So all you have here is circular logic.
Like i said, your my distant #2...they asked for my suspects, i gave them

[Chief Rum]

Your actually far smarter then you want to appear. Your posts look like your trying to use the noob thing as cover, and this post only exemplifies that. You are a wolf disguised as a noob, cleverly snaking to victory, Your day one no-vote was not a factor. You seem like your trying to hard to seem like a rookie, but i think underneath that your a wolf playing a clever trick

lol, I would thank you for the compliment if it were true. Unfortunately for my brain and for you, Occam's Razor applies--I am just a newb, and your complicated tale--if interesting to read--is just a fiction to save your hide.

Bravo on the attempt, but you're obviously a baddie trying to deflect attention. You'll be staked this time tomorrow night, and no doc's around to save you this time.

[Blade6119]

dola, Anxiety-

What do you think of chief since your always right ;) ?

[Blade6119]

lol, I would thank you for the compliment if it were true. Unfortunately for my brain and for you, Occam's Razor applies--I am just a newb, and your complicated tale--if interesting to read--is just a fiction to save your hide.

Bravo on the attempt, but you're obviously a baddie trying to deflect attention. You'll be staked this time tomorrow night, and no doc's around to save you this time.
I will gladly die tomorrow, as long as i can get a promise from my fellow players that you will die shortly after. And if your are bad, then anxiety is to follow. The more you talk, the more sure i am. If it takes my death to unvravel your plot, it will be the only thing ive done right all game

[molson]

No vote from me tonight - I've gotta limit my new WW addiction and get the hell out of here.

My last thought of the night - Anxiety was clearly sticking up for Blade, but now that Blade seems doomed, he seems to be feuding with him. Signficant? Who the hell knows anymore.

Great game.

[st.cronin]

st. cronin, I havea question about what you mean regarding Reiman. You say he counts as a human for victory. Does this mean he wins if humans win? Or that he counts as a human when tabulating the wolf:human ratio but still wins as a wolf?

The answer to the bolded question is yes.

[DaddyTorgo]

what if the wolves are like farrah and dodgerchick and schmidty, just sitting back and watching us villagers tear ourselves apart and never even look in their direction?

[Barkeep49]

I have some thoughts but am waiting to post them until I hear that I am officially in the game.

[bulletsponge]

what if the wolves are like farrah and dodgerchick and schmidty, just sitting back and watching us villagers tear ourselves apart and never even look in their direction?


then they are smart

[Abe Sargent]

dola, Anxiety-

What do you think of chief since your always right ;) ?


You bastard! :)

My knowledge of Chief Rum from my game, which was his only other game, was that he made the right decision once (to convert hoopsguy on Night 2) but did not make the same decision later (to convert Barkeep on Night whatever).

I believe he is still in the neophyte stage, and if he were a wolf, we would have seen it more, if that makes sense.

However, a clever, savvy wolf, which I beleive there is one, would be able to guide CR to seem less like a wolf. Therefore, he could be playing it better than he would otherwise do.

However, as of right now, I'm not inclined to vote for CR.

Double however, I'd be open to you building a case.

[Abe Sargent]

No vote from me tonight - I've gotta limit my new WW addiction and get the hell out of here.

My last thought of the night - Anxiety was clearly sticking up for Blade, but now that Blade seems doomed, he seems to be feuding with him. Signficant? Who the hell knows anymore.

Great game.


I'm not feuding with Blade, I'm still sticking up for him. Blade just isn't reciprocating, which I never expected him to.

[Blade6119]

what if the wolves are like farrah and dodgerchick and schmidty, just sitting back and watching us villagers tear ourselves apart and never even look in their direction?
Exactly why im on chief...quiet, UTR, has avoided being in hte lynch(like his vote on schmidty today)...trying to hide to me

[Lorena]

what if the wolves are like farrah and dodgerchick and schmidty, just sitting back and watching us villagers tear ourselves apart and never even look in their direction?

ROFL You can't be serious right? In no way can I come up with something that brilliant... oh hell no!

I wouldn't put it past Farrah though after all,

Redheads can't be trusted.

Thanks for the compliment though.

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, here's someone I want to take a look at. What's his post history, what has he done so far, etc.

SnDvls

I'm not saying I'd vote for him, I just want to see us explore him.

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, here's someone I want to take a look at. What's his post history, what has he done so far, etc.

SnDvls

I'm not saying I'd vote for him, I just want to see us explore him.



Although not literally :eek:


"Times like this when i NEED to edit."

-The jbonics Handbook

[Blade6119]

I'm not feuding with Blade, I'm still sticking up for him. Blade just isn't reciprocating, which I never expected him to.
Its exactly that oddly...your the only one who seems to know the truth(you are 100% right so far)...either, your playing a hell of a villager game(possible) or a hell of a bad guy game(you hadnt been looked at even for a second until i dropped you in). Either way, your having a great game. The later option scares me a bit. Not as much as chief, hence my vote

[Chief Rum]

Exactly why im on chief...quiet, UTR, has avoided being in hte lynch(like his vote on schmidty today)...trying to hide to me

Actually, the reason you state here is why I voted for Schmidty and said as much this morning. I know he's a tested vet, and felt he was being way too quiet. At the time, I didn't have much else to go on.

I think we all have a lot to go on now, though, don't we, Blade?

Let what happens in two days, happen in two days. But I certainly hope we won't be letting Blade slick his way out of a lynch tomorrow. If he does that, he truly will be a badass WW player.

[Blade6119]

Actually, the reason you state here is why I voted for Schmidty and said as much this morning. I know he's a tested vet, and felt he was being way too quiet. At the time, I didn't have much else to go on.

I think we all have a lot to go on now, though, don't we, Blade?

Let what happens in two days, happen in two days. But I certainly hope we won't be letting Blade slick his way out of a lynch tomorrow. If he does that, he truly will be a badass WW player.
I wont be around much tomorrow, have to work during the day with no net access...ill deal with you later, ive got a date to go pick up..cheerd all, sleep tight

[bulletsponge]

I wont be around much tomorrow, have to work during the day with no net access...ill deal with you later, ive got a date to go pick up..cheerd all, sleep tight

trying to get lucky 2 times in one night eh?

[Abe Sargent]

Snap!

[Barkeep49]

Ok let's view this from the simplest perspective: How is Blade not bad? I mean the guy is still alive (argument A for his being bad) & he was saved by the bad guys (argument B for his being bad). He can play the "ohh woe is me" all he wants. Well he should feel woe. He should die.

Vote Blade

[DaddyTorgo]

yep. if the bad guys save you you prolly ought to die. there's an occam's razor choice for ya. i hafta say that i agree with barkeep on this one. especially since blade managed to have 3 villagers on his list this last time around.

VOTE BLADE

[Barkeep49]

Thanks for reminding me of that Daddy. Hiding in plain sight can be a great tactic for a bad guy. AFterall who would be "dumb" enough to kill the people they're most suspicious of? I mean it's so obvious it couldn't be true, right? Except that of course means it could be true. Very, very true.

[DaddyTorgo]

yep. and blade seemed quite quick to form that "circle of trust" which if you notice, he was the only one promoting. he's been the 'circle of trust is our best defense' guy all along. in fact, IIRC, SunDvls never even posted anything to the effect of "sweet i trust blade back!" it's more like the whole COT is blade's invention to make himself seem...indispensible.

[Barkeep49]

Actually COT is our best hope. I just don't remember how Blade came to his conclusion. Does anybody? It is important we form a COT and the sooner the better. I just don't think we've got a basis, from what I've seen, to do it yet. And I'm no help in getting it done right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

how can our COT hope to survive without bodyguards or anything though? at least...if it's at all public, or if the wolves are analyzing our voting records, they'll just pick the people off or hide among them if it's too big

[Swaggs]

Actually COT is our best hope. I just don't remember how Blade came to his conclusion. Does anybody? It is important we form a COT and the sooner the better. I just don't think we've got a basis, from what I've seen, to do it yet. And I'm no help in getting it done right now.

I am not certain, but I suspect there was a little bit of movement towards a circle of trust when a few people tried to put feelers out with their initial PM information. But, st. cronin has said that virtually everyone was made aware of the PM description that the "simple villagers" got.

Keep in mind that we also, presumably, still have the masons working for us, as well. I have no idea what type of numbers they have, or if the even still exist, but if there are even a handful of them left, they give us a little bit of voting block advantage.

[Barkeep49]

how can our COT hope to survive without bodyguards or anything though? at least...if it's at all public, or if the wolves are analyzing our voting records, they'll just pick the people off or hide among them if it's too big
Because bad guys can only kill 1 person per day. Our COT is bigger. So while they try and knockoff people inside our COT, and let's not forget we think, but don't know, that there isn't a a bodyguard, we narrow the field outside the circle. You might be right that it might be slightly too early, but 7 good guys are dead and no bad guys. That leaves us anywhere from 10-5 to 12-3. At 10-5 we're rapidly running out of time. Now I think it's more likely we're at 11-4, but with Dracula still out there another double kill isn't out of the realm of possiblity.

[bulletsponge]

there is no way to verify if someone is good ( i dont think) or bad. no seers, bodyguards or anything fancy, didnt want to scare the newbies off by making it to complicated.

[Barkeep49]

there is no way to verify if someone is good ( i dont think) or bad. no seers, bodyguards or anything fancy, didnt want to scare the newbies off by making it to complicated.
Then we'll have to do it the old fashioned way. Back in the olden days we sometimes lose the seers early on in a game and we'd STILL form a circle of trust. It's just harder. We've goten spoiled. Content. Complacement. But we can still root these bad guys out.

[hoopsguy]

Gather 'round the campfire and listen to old man Barkeep spin a yarn about days of werewolf gone by. Before them newfangled games with the pretty backstory. When it was a group of men against wolves, period.

No seers.
No bodyguards.
No one with a frigging lightsaber, spell, or kung fu grip.

When men were men and they hunted wolves.

[path12]

i think if blade is a villager, you and fouts both die, one after the other. that much is clear.

Now you're getting it. Goddamn, this is fascinating. Catching up -- still a half an hour to deadline!

[Abe Sargent]

Then I'll wait on ya, path :)

[Abe Sargent]

And when you get to that "Shit!" moment, I'll be here to hold your hand

[tanglewood]

Well I'm going to go with what seems the best option, the simplest option really at the moment.

Vote Blade

To me, with everything that's transpired, it's much more likely he is guilty than not.

[path12]

I would like to applaud the wolves. I bet Blade is a villager, and now instead of wasting one day killing Blade, we'll waste two days going after Blade tomorrow.


*applauds*

Sometimes I feel like the Cassandra character of our little play.

I think you're right on. Wow.

[path12]

It is good to know that Lathum and I were right all along. Both of us are villagers.

Huh? Lathum being good doesn't prove a thing about you.

[path12]

Okay, here's someone I want to take a look at. What's his post history, what has he done so far, etc.

SnDvls

I'm not saying I'd vote for him, I just want to see us explore him.

I might add Tanglewood to that list.

[path12]

Actually COT is our best hope. I just don't remember how Blade came to his conclusion. Does anybody? It is important we form a COT and the sooner the better. I just don't think we've got a basis, from what I've seen, to do it yet. And I'm no help in getting it done right now.

If you're in Schmidty's spot, you're in mine. Everyone else is dead though. :(

[SnDvls]

yep. and blade seemed quite quick to form that "circle of trust" which if you notice, he was the only one promoting. he's been the 'circle of trust is our best defense' guy all along. in fact, IIRC, SunDvls never even posted anything to the effect of "sweet i trust blade back!" it's more like the whole COT is blade's invention to make himself seem...indispensible.


just a FYI...I was never in a COT w/ anyone. I'll I said was I have an uneasy feeling about fouts and was voting w/ blade on that one.

I guess blade could be bad, but he just doesn't seem to be himself in this game. Usually if he's good he's throwing everything at a wall and hoping something sticks...here he's playing it safe, slow, and very low. I can't remember the last time he was bad.

I honestly don't know which way to go, but I don't like how convient the Blade vote/pile on has become.

I"m off to bed to think this over.

[path12]

I am not certain, but I suspect there was a little bit of movement towards a circle of trust when a few people tried to put feelers out with their initial PM information. But, st. cronin has said that virtually everyone was made aware of the PM description that the "simple villagers" got.

I think he had to put that out there as a balance when the whole thing went public. Remember, he was just back from vacation and it was a hurried start. I think that the inital group was valid no matter what cronin said publicly.

But it was never more that myself, Alan T, GoldenEagle and Schmidty. I've been on record as leaning toward Blade being good, but I've never linked myself to him like I did the others (though as I was catching up I noticed he linked to me).

That said, I think some of the newer players are reading way too much into the whole 'can we trust the COT' thing. And some are actually trying so hard to discredit the idea that they are moving higher on my list. This particular COT has little actual effect in this game now.

[path12]

I've got to ponder this. This has been an excellent day of WW.

Barkeep makes a strong point -- there is a time where there's just too much evidence, and you've got to follow through on it. Blade is going to have to die soon and it might as well be now as later.......but I'm not ready yet to say I think he's bad. At this moment I think that there is at least one and likely multiple wolves in the Blade voters.

Helluva game, cronin.

[Blade6119]

yep. and blade seemed quite quick to form that "circle of trust" which if you notice, he was the only one promoting. he's been the 'circle of trust is our best defense' guy all along. in fact, IIRC, SunDvls never even posted anything to the effect of "sweet i trust blade back!" it's more like the whole COT is blade's invention to make himself seem...indispensible.
Sndvls is not apart of my COT, never has been, and i dont know why people keep linking us. It was Path who first revealed the idea, one i had been using to bait you specifically not like 5 posts before. It involves path, schmidty, alan(now dead villager), and somewhat gramat and eagles(now dead as all, also a villager)

[Blade6119]

Barkeep, et tu? Do you really believe, in the deep reccesses of your heart, i would kill all 3 people i suspected(and if i was bad, i would pick 3 villagers). If you want to kill me, im quite content to go down as long as you make sure when i come up a villager you kill chief(and maybe anxiety, depending on chiefs outcome). They have made my death wayyy too convenient, and i hope you dont walk right into their plans.

Im sorry im not going off the wall defending myself, but as you all note when i play my normal game i die day 1-3...its now day 4, so my new style met my goal of helping me live longer. I can throw shit on the walls again as someone put it, but then id already be dead.

[Blade6119]

how can our COT hope to survive without bodyguards or anything though? at least...if it's at all public, or if the wolves are analyzing our voting records, they'll just pick the people off or hide among them if it's too big
Note, of the 5 people in the COT, 2 are dead and im all but dead...the last 2 night kills by the wolves have come from our COT that no one seems to trust(alan and GE)

[Blade6119]

dola, and ill repeat the list(even though path is now trying to distance himself from me, hes apart of mine)

Blade
Schmidty(who is now Barkeep)
Path
Gramat
Alan
GE

Ok, thats 5 not including me...my error there

[bulletsponge]

did anyone else get a Godfather dejavu last night? all Blades enemies got wacked and then the first thing he does is point the finger at a "wolf" to draw suspicion away from him?
if they wanted you dead so bad why didnt they just kill you the first few nights? instead the evil dr uses both of his ace cards to set you up instead of saving them for a real wolf or himself? is that your theory?

[Blade6119]

did anyone else get a Godfather dejavu last night? all Blades enemies got wacked and then the first thing he does is point the finger at a "wolf" to draw suspicion away from him?
if they wanted you dead so bad why didnt they just kill you the first few nights? instead the evil dr uses both of his ace cards to set you up instead of saving them for a real wolf or himself? is that your theory?
They dont want me bad deadly, they want the group to spend their lynches, the only weapon they have, on villagers. Yesterdays moves ensured that happens again today, instead of another fairly wide open vote. I am just a pawn in their chess game, and you are using your only piece to chase me around the board while they position for checkmate. To be fair, id imagine the acutal Dr. has been under no danger so far this game, not a hint, so he figures he can use his powers now as he doesnt expect heat. Hence chief and anxiety, chief namely, make sense. He has stayed far from any heat, and has actively tried to seem distant and confused. The wolves arent an any danger, hence their moves. Suprisingly, after calling our chief, suddenly he has things to say..odd how that works...

[st.cronin]

Helluva game, cronin.

Thanks! I have to say, it's mostly the players, though - I've had very little to do. I'm very impressed with the participation.

[molson]

They dont want me bad deadly, they want the group to spend their lynches, the only weapon they have, on villagers. .

Lathum was pretty much a gonner before the momentum swiched to you. Did Dr. R use his powers so that instead of you dying before Lathum, that Lathum would die before you instead? What sense does that make?

Blade might be Dr. R. Since he's on the wolves' team, it makes perfect sense to try to knock of a mason or two before he died (and loses the Frankenstein power).

Yes, Blade counts as a human in victory conditions. But, as long as he's around, he'll vote in the interests of the wolves, and he'll continue to convince vilagers that he's not evil. We'd be better off without him

And of course, Blade could be a wolf. But the villager option still makes no sense to me.

Vote Blade

After this, I think we really have to focus on ties (Which Blade was vocally oppossed to by the way). Villagers are running out of time, and our best remaining advantage is the masons. Masons are useless without ties, and there's little time left to attempt to "save" them until the end.

[Blade6119]

Lathum was pretty much a gonner before the momentum swiched to you. Did Dr. R use his powers so that instead of you dying before Lathum, that Lathum would die before you instead? What sense does that make?

Blade might be Dr. R. Since he's on the wolves' team, it makes perfect sense to try to knock of a mason or two before he died (and loses the Frankenstein power).

Yes, Blade counts as a human in victory conditions. But, as long as he's around, he'll vote in the interests of the wolves, and he'll continue to convince vilagers that he's not evil. We'd be better off without him

And of course, Blade could be a wolf. But the villager option still makes no sense to me.

Vote Blade

After this, I think we really have to focus on ties (Which Blade was vocally oppossed to by the way). Villagers are running out of time, and our best remaining advantage is the masons. Masons are useless without ties, and there's little time left to attempt to "save" them until the end.
If i was Dr. R, i wouldnt have swapped it to lathum...it incriminates me too much. If i was a wolf, and he was trying to save me, why go out and kill fouts that night(which dr. r did) and incriminate blade more? It doesnt make sense, if you connect the dots.

Every move made, the lathum kill, the fouts kill, and the GE kill, all point to me...as a bad guy, wolf or Dr, moves would be made to incriminate someone else with the kills.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

You know, it seemed a little too convenient that it was Lathum who ended up getting killed, while Blade and he were running neck and neck all day.

Vote Blade

[Barkeep49]

If i was Dr. R, i wouldnt have swapped it to lathum...it incriminates me too much. If i was a wolf, and he was trying to save me, why go out and kill fouts that night(which dr. r did) and incriminate blade more? It doesnt make sense, if you connect the dots.

Every move made, the lathum kill, the fouts kill, and the GE kill, all point to me...as a bad guy, wolf or Dr, moves would be made to incriminate someone else with the kills.
Let me get this straight: If you were Dr. R you would die rather than you your power? C'mon.

[st.cronin]

Gather 'round the campfire and listen to old man Barkeep spin a yarn about days of werewolf gone by. Before them newfangled games with the pretty backstory. When it was a group of men against wolves, period.

No seers.
No bodyguards.
No one with a frigging lightsaber, spell, or kung fu grip.

When men were men and they hunted wolves.

:D

[Blade6119]

You know, it seemed a little too convenient that it was Lathum who ended up getting killed, while Blade and he were running neck and neck all day.

Vote Blade
Fouts and lathum were neck and neck all day...right at the deadline they swayed it to me...

COME ON GUYS, CONNECT THE DOTS!! The path laid before you is far too easy, please think :(

[Grammaticus]

Best evidence we have so far is the bad guy saving Blade. That makes Blade the highest probability of being a wolf or potentially being the Duke (Dr. Raimen). Either way it is the best strategy to get Blade off the table. Otherwise we will be dealing with this smoke screen ongoing.

Also, getting rid of Dr. Raimen is huge. He scans each round, effectively being a seer for the bad guys. Eventually he will out our Masons and any other specialty role that could have been hidden. That is not worth his headcount.

VOTE BLADE

[Blade6119]

Let me get this straight: If you were Dr. R you would die rather than you your power? C'mon.
I would have used it, but not on lathum. I would have killed someone who gave me a scapegoat. Killing lathum points to me...there were other options to swap to that would have given me more outs today

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, et tu? Do you really believe, in the deep reccesses of your heart, i would kill all 3 people i suspected(and if i was bad, i would pick 3 villagers).
You make an interesting point about choosing 3 villagers. But then again if you were Dr. R you'd harldy know they were 3 villagers. So to summerize do I believe you'd really knock off all the people on your list? Yes.

If you want to kill me, im quite content to go down as long as you make sure when i come up a villager you kill chief(and maybe anxiety, depending on chiefs outcome). They have made my death wayyy too convenient, and i hope you dont walk right into their plans.

I'll admit right here that I haven't been reading this game as carefully as I would have if I'd been playing from the start. Can you explain to me, with post numbers if possible, what you're driving at here?

Im sorry im not going off the wall defending myself, but as you all note when i play my normal game i die day 1-3...its now day 4, so my new style met my goal of helping me live longer. I can throw shit on the walls again as someone put it, but then id already be dead.
Well I'd actually argue that your being alive on Day 4 is partially to explain you being a bad guy when there was a definite "kill the active vets" strategy in Day's 1-3.

[Barkeep49]

I would have used it, but not on lathum. I would have killed someone who gave me a scapegoat. Killing lathum points to me...there were other options to swap to that would have given me more outs today
Ok so who do you think is Mr. R? We have the advantage of knowing that it isn't some people, like Farrah or path, who were gone at the time the stuff went down. So if you're innocent build up a case against someone else. Doing that is not going off the deepend it's defending yourself.

[Barkeep49]

Fouts and lathum were neck and neck all day...right at the deadline they swayed it to me...

COME ON GUYS, CONNECT THE DOTS!! The path laid before you is far too easy, please think :(
I'm stupid. What's the path? We know both Lathum AND Fouts were good guys. So two good guys were neck and neck all day and both decided to switch to someone else. How is that exonerating evidence for you?

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Fouts and lathum were neck and neck all day...right at the deadline they swayed it to me...

COME ON GUYS, CONNECT THE DOTS!! The path laid before you is far too easy, please think :(

Ah, the begging begins. You sound like you know you're going to get staked today or something....

[Blade6119]

I'm stupid. What's the path? We know both Lathum AND Fouts were good guys. So two good guys were neck and neck all day and both decided to switch to someone else. How is that exonerating evidence for you?
The top part of my quote was correcting farrahs comment...the bottom part was to everyone...Everything that has happened points to me, tells you to lynch me, and pretty much makes me look like satan. As a bad guy, i would think you would assume im good enough to not incriminate myself with my every move.

[Blade6119]

Ah, the begging begins. You sound like you know you're going to get staked today or something....
Have you been reading the thread? The only people defending me are the people im accusing lol...im a goner, im just making sure you know where to go tomorrow

[Grammaticus]

I would have used it, but not on lathum. I would have killed someone who gave me a scapegoat. Killing lathum points to me...there were other options to swap to that would have given me more outs today
Agreed, on using the power. The Blade I know would sacrifice anything to use his special power :)

In all seriousness, your best strategy after being fingered as a wolf in yesterdays debacle, is to create overwhelming evidence that you are being "setup". It is your only small chance of trying to talk your way out of a lynching of which now you have no escape power.

[Barkeep49]

The top part of my quote was correcting farrahs comment...the bottom part was to everyone...Everything that has happened points to me, tells you to lynch me, and pretty much makes me look like satan. As a bad guy, i would think you would assume im good enough to not incriminate myself with my every move.
But that's the thing. There was a period there where people were believing you. Then I cast the first vote and things went down hill for you. But your defense worked for several hours. It was remarkable really.

I admit there's a certain reasoning to your "would I do everything possible to make myself look bad" reasoning. But if you're not, say Dr. R, why does he chose to use Frankenstine last night? One suggestion is that he wouldn't use him before he died.

[Blade6119]

You make an interesting point about choosing 3 villagers. But then again if you were Dr. R you'd harldy know they were 3 villagers. So to summerize do I believe you'd really knock off all the people on your list? Yes.
Then im dissapointed in you barkeep...i thought you thought me more devious and under-handed then that.

I'll admit right here that I haven't been reading this game as carefully as I would have if I'd been playing from the start. Can you explain to me, with post numbers if possible, what you're driving at here?
Can you re-read every posts in the last 20 pages...every move made from the day 3 lynch to now has made me look terrible....from bad, to worse, to damned...the path has been laid before you meaning my death. You are using today to lynch me like they want, and tomorrow, unless you listen to me about chief and anxiety, you will be lost and in a deep hole.

Well I'd actually argue that your being alive on Day 4 is partially to explain you being a bad guy when there was a definite "kill the active vets" strategy in Day's 1-3.
Anxiety himself explains it to you, so let me pass his own behind the scenes wisdom to you:

Im not surprised. If I had been the chooser of the WW on night one, I would have used the "kill the vets" stratgey but I would have chosen good vets who are not as high profile as Blade, so there is less of a chance of a hidden bodyguard block. Like SnDvls, for example. Saldana was a solid choice as well, and I'm not surprised to see his name called. I would not, however, have hit Blade. I think that would be a rookie mistake, because if you are a BG, who else are you gonna guard Night One?


Honestly, I see the saldana and Alan T hits as smart. Get good vets but not high profile ones. I like that strategy a lot. I think that shows savvy and I suspect that at least one WW is a vet.
They have killed vets, and left blade, who always draws heat...its a given ill die, so why waste a night doing it when you are all doing it for them

[Grammaticus]

Another reason Dr. Raimen would go for Lathum is because he scanned him and knows he was a villager. The Dr. does not want to accidentally hit a wolf. He would have limitted options based on who he scanned and which of those are still alive at the time of the Duking.

[Barkeep49]

Agreed, on using the power. The Blade I know would sacrifice anything to use his special power :)

In all seriousness, your best strategy after being fingered as a wolf in yesterdays debacle, is to create overwhelming evidence that you are being "setup". It is your only small chance of trying to talk your way out of a lynching of which now you have no escape power.
I agree with this to a certain extent. It's perverse and yet logical in it's own way. I will point out that people CAN and DO get away with killing the people they've gone after. Just look at Lathum. The guy has a mega blow-up with you, kills you, and no one thinks that perhaps he's a bad guy.

[Barkeep49]

So basically Blade you're suggesting that while you would never play the 100% obvious game, Anxiety would? Not a rhetorical question, I want to make sure that's your meaning.

[Blade6119]

your best strategy after being fingered as a wolf in yesterdays debacle
Exactly my point...everything points to be...as mr. R, or a wolf he is protecting, kills would have been made to create other suspects and scapegoats. Instead, all other suspects and scapegoats were killed by both the wolves and mr. R....last night left 0 suspects but me...why, as dr. R or a wolf, would i kill of my only outs>??

[Blade6119]

So basically Blade you're suggesting that while you would never play the 100% obvious game, Anxiety would? Not a rhetorical question, I want to make sure that's your meaning.
Anxiety i #2 on my list, but remember what we always say? Usually the best villager isnt one. When i die, you will see how true every one of his statements is 100% on. Either hes having a stunningly good villager game, or hes what im suggesting. Note though, id much prefer chief dead first

[Blade6119]

But that's the thing. There was a period there where people were believing you. Then I cast the first vote and things went down hill for you. But your defense worked for several hours. It was remarkable really.

I admit there's a certain reasoning to your "would I do everything possible to make myself look bad" reasoning. But if you're not, say Dr. R, why does he chose to use Frankenstine last night? One suggestion is that he wouldn't use him before he died.
I believe in personal victories above team, you know that. Ive drawn criticism for that. If i had frank, i would use him to help me survive, not help the wolves win. Fouts was about the worst kill i could have made if i was doc, as he was the one true suspect i could push it off on(and i was trying, up to and 1 posts after he died)...Yes, i would use before i died, but to save me and not the wolves

[Blade6119]

I agree with this to a certain extent. It's perverse and yet logical in it's own way. I will point out that people CAN and DO get away with killing the people they've gone after. Just look at Lathum. The guy has a mega blow-up with you, kills you, and no one thinks that perhaps he's a bad guy.
Quite right, lathum had a fight with me, killed me, and got away with it. And suggesting i got sweet revenge pulling the exact same move in reverse is quite intelligent(hadnt made the connection). To be fair though, i went after fouts yesterday...lathum got a late vote swap from me to try and save myself. Remember that, as the final vote doesnt show that. Fouts was my target until the final 10 minutes

[Grammaticus]

Ok so who do you think is Mr. R? We have the advantage of knowing that it isn't some people, like Farrah or path, who were gone at the time the stuff went down. So if you're innocent build up a case against someone else. Doing that is not going off the deepend it's defending yourself.
Actually, the Duke ability and any pk usually lets you send a PM earlier in the day with instructions, such as “if Blade wins the vote, switch to Lathum”. Then you do not have to sign on or be around for the vote to use your power.

I’m sure path would know that and if Farrah were selected as Dr. Raimen, she would have asked St.Cronin how all the powers can be used.

And DO NO FORGET, the new players are allowed to get advice from hoopsguy and others.

[st.cronin]

Actually, the Duke ability and any pk usually lets you send a PM earlier in the day with instructions, such as “if Blade wins the vote, switch to Lathum”. Then you do not have to sign on or be around for the vote to use your power.

I’m sure path would know that and if Farrah were selected as Dr. Raimen, she would have asked St.Cronin how all the powers can be used.

And DO NO FORGET, the new players are allowed to get advice from hoopsguy and others.

This is all true, except that advice should be limited to generic werewolf advice, not Werewolf XXXI-specific advice.

[Blade6119]

Actually, the Duke ability and any pk usually lets you send a PM earlier in the day with instructions, such as “if Blade wins the vote, switch to Lathum”. Then you do not have to sign on or be around for the vote to use your power.

I’m sure path would know that and if Farrah were selected as Dr. Raimen, she would have asked St.Cronin how all the powers can be used.

And DO NO FORGET, the new players are allowed to get advice from hoopsguy and others.
Considering it didnt swap to me until 20 min. till the deadline, it would actually mean Doc was around. And what do you know, chief and anxiety were both around then...gotta love coincidences like that

[st.cronin]

Considering it didnt swap to me until 20 min. till the deadline, it would actually mean Doc was around. And what do you know, chief and anxiety were both around then...gotta love coincidences like that

The swap took place when the vote count was final. The request for the swap could have been made any time after the previous lynch.

[Blade6119]

The swap took place when the vote count was final. The request for the swap could have been made any time after the previous lynch.
I meant the lynch didnt sway to me until 20 min. until the deadline. Until then, lathum was up with fouts right behind him. No one would need to duke it to lathum until the final 20 minutes of the day, as he was already dying...so whoever duked it to me made that decision in the final 20 min.

[Barkeep49]

Actually, the Duke ability and any pk usually lets you send a PM earlier in the day with instructions, such as “if Blade wins the vote, switch to Lathum”. Then you do not have to sign on or be around for the vote to use your power.

I’m sure path would know that and if Farrah were selected as Dr. Raimen, she would have asked St.Cronin how all the powers can be used.

And DO NO FORGET, the new players are allowed to get advice from hoopsguy and others.
Yeah but no one had Blade on their active radar until late in the day. Who would send in such a conditional order?

Also, from conversations I've had with him, I don't think anyone's gone to hoops for advice and I know no one has contacted me.

[Barkeep49]

Cronin I understand what you're trying to do, but I think it doesn't pass the Occam Ravor's test.

[st.cronin]

Actually, exactly such a conditional order WAS sent in, although I forget what time exactly. The good Doctor will be happy to confirm after the game is over, I'm sure.

[Blade6119]

Actually, exactly such a conditional order WAS sent in, although I forget what time exactly. The good Doctor will be happy to confirm after the game is over, I'm sure.
its prob. best if you dont share details like this for game purposes, its not fair

[st.cronin]

Speculating about who was online at such and such a time goes against the integrity of the game. I set up this game specifically so such things wouldn't matter.

[Blade6119]

Speculating about who was online at such and such a time goes against the integrity of the game. I set up this game specifically so such things wouldn't matter.
Well crap, as that was one of the keys in my defense. Now its back to begging ;)

[Grammaticus]

Yeah but no one had Blade on their active radar until late in the day. Who would send in such a conditional order?

Also, from conversations I've had with him, I don't think anyone's gone to hoops for advice and I know no one has contacted me.
Doesn’t matter, the one time I had the Duke role, I sent an order in early in the day so I would have protection if I couldn’t get online or knew I would be away.

For example I would send it a note that said something like, “If Grammaticus, Dubb or Hoopsguy is picked for lynch, change the vote to Jeeber”. I’m just making up the names, but if you have a person or two you want to stay in the game, you could do that. When I did it, the players I sent had no heat on them. If the doctor tested both Blade and Lathum (two choices with high probability of testing) and knew one was bad and one was good, he could have sent the order in as soon as the next day started as an elementary precaution.

I’m just saying it could easily be done.

The part about getting help from others was just meant to remind everyone that just because someone is new, does not mean they cannot get advice on how to use the power and cover themselves. Example, Farrah could ask Hoops, St. Cronin, etc. “Don’t tell me who to duke, but if I wanted to duke someone and not tip my hat, what can I do?” Who knows or cares, just understand they are not without help on how the game works. Versus having to ask in the open, which may tip their role.

[Grammaticus]

The Occam Ravor's test.

What is this?

[Blade6119]

What is this?
I googled it, and wikipedia basically says the simplest route is usually the correct one

[Blade6119]

Ok, barkeep...can you at least promise me that if i die(or when based on how it looks) and come up a villager, you will make sure chief dies?

[Barkeep49]

What is this?
Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation is also the most likely explanation.

[Barkeep49]

Ok, barkeep...can you at least promise me that if i die(or when based on how it looks) and come up a villager, you will make sure chief dies?
Well no. You've presented evidence against Anxiety, but not against Rum. What makes you so sure Rum is a bad guy.

[Blade6119]

Well no. You've presented evidence against Anxiety, but not against Rum. What makes you so sure Rum is a bad guy.
The same blade gut that had you pegged that one game as a bad guy(same one dubb made his famous 3-1 move as turncoat). I have my gut feeling on chief like i did you....i had no evidence against you, but i just knew...i have that with chief, and just like that game no one believes me. Ironically, just like that, the doc(i wish dubb was playing, as its his move) has basically killed 3 villagers(lathum fouts, and myself) and still lives. When i die, and the night kill happens, it will be 9 straight villagers...its basically down to you cant afford to waste lynches anymore.

[path12]

Blade, you mentioned Gram is in your circle. Could you recap why? I don't remember and he's not been in mine.

Oh, and I'm not voting for you, for what it's worth. I have to admit I don't get the Chief Rum vibe you do, but I'm 80% you're good and really, my vote doesn't matter anyway at this point.

After thinking on it a bit, I'm more and more of the opinion that there are wolves in your votes yesterday. Tangle and molson continue to be high on my list, and I do get your case for Anxiety though I feel that's a smaller chance. Gram continues (as usual) to be very hard for me to read. I hope to be able to go back through some old posts later today and put some reasoning together.

[Blade6119]

dola, barkeep

Im talking this through with you since you took schmidtys spot and i trusted him. Therefore, i think your good and worth convincing. Some people, like tangle or now chief, are not going to believe me regardless of what i say. I will be gone most of the day, so tell me now, do i have a shot at swaying you? becuase if not i will just say kill chief then anxiety, and you all have fun lynching me. I consider you a key vote since you hold some sway naturally, so if i cant get you i wont get farrah and the others who followed you onto me.

[Barkeep49]

The same blade gut that had you pegged that one game as a bad guy(same one dubb made his famous 3-1 move as turncoat). I have my gut feeling on chief like i did you....i had no evidence against you, but i just knew...i have that with chief, and just like that game no one believes me. Ironically, just like that, the doc(i wish dubb was playing, as its his move) has basically killed 3 villagers(lathum fouts, and myself) and still lives. When i die, and the night kill happens, it will be 9 straight villagers...its basically down to you cant afford to waste lynches anymore.
Yeah Blade that was incredible. I admit it. But you've been wrong several times with that same gut since then.

[Barkeep49]

dola, barkeep

Im talking this through with you since you took schmidtys spot and i trusted him. Therefore, i think your good and worth convincing. Some people, like tangle or now chief, are not going to believe me regardless of what i say. I will be gone most of the day, so tell me now, do i have a shot at swaying you? becuase if not i will just say kill chief then anxiety, and you all have fun lynching me. I consider you a key vote since you hold some sway naturally, so if i cant get you i wont get farrah and the others who followed you onto me.
I'm always convincable. That's why Lathum played me so well a couple games ago.

[Blade6119]

Blade, you mentioned Gram is in your circle. Could you recap why? I don't remember and he's not been in mine.

Oh, and I'm not voting for you, for what it's worth. I have to admit I don't get the Chief Rum vibe you do, but I'm 80% you're good and really, my vote doesn't matter anyway at this point.

After thinking on it a bit, I'm more and more of the opinion that there are wolves in your votes yesterday. Tangle and molson continue to be high on my list, and I do get your case for Anxiety though I feel that's a smaller chance. Gram continues (as usual) to be very hard for me to read. I hope to be able to go back through some old posts later today and put some reasoning together.
One post entirely did it for me, and here it is:
I’ve seen the “kill the vets” approach work very well in the past. It really comes down to kill the players who have a rep as being good players more than simply experienced or veteran. Usually I would not lynch the vets from the start. But later on when the smoke clears and there is just that one player that you can’t figure out why they are still there, well that means something too. But no single strategy is fool proof.

Also, I have seen the wolves take out all the vets one by one. Same problem occurs. At some point one person should just not be there and that person ends up being the experienced wolf. Or the random gods give you 2 experienced wolves. It gets just as tricky, just more focused.

The two most notorious vets started the game and are still here. That would be Blade and Schmidty. At this point I would not recommend killing either as I think they are both good based on a prior post by each. Either that or one or both laid a good trap. For now I consider them more trustworthy than not.

That was before you pointed it out, before i baited torgo, before any of that(but on day 2, not day 1). Now, the reason it doesnt earn my full trust is that day one he liked my check in post, he voted for me. Hence why he is not fully trusted like you and schmidty. I considered the fact it was a day 2 comments leaves the possibility he either was doc and scanned me or just picked up on it. Mostly i trusted him for it though.

Post#406 for reference

[molson]

What Blade did in some other game has absolutely no relevance to his role in this one.

[Blade6119]

Yeah Blade that was incredible. I admit it. But you've been wrong several times with that same gut since then.
Its hit or miss, i admit that...im just telling you where to go tomorrow, as otherwise it will be like day 1 with everyone accusing everyone.

[Barkeep49]

What Blade did in some other game has absolutely no relevance to his role in this one.
Actually having a proven track record at being good at something, DOES have relevance to this game, I feel.

[path12]

Post#406 for reference

Thanks, I had forgotten that comment.

[Barkeep49]

DOLA -- Though I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion you've drawn molson.

[path12]

What Blade did in some other game has absolutely no relevance to his role in this one.

I really feel quite strongly that you're bad, and almost every post reinforces that.

[Blade6119]

I really feel quite strongly that you're bad, and almost every post reinforces that.
I suspect molson and tangle as well, but im having a hard time figuring out if its becuase of something they have said or the simple fact they are accusing me. Hence why i have, and will continue to, pursued a chief rum lynching.

[Grammaticus]

Of note, from the page one rules. Although Dr. Raimen counts as a villager in the ratio, that appears to only affect the wolves conditions, as below it states the Villagers must eliminate all of the wolves and their allies. Allies are listed as Dr. R and Count D

Rules: Everybody is presumed a villager. It is not known how many wolves are hiding in your midst. Each day you will vote on one suspect - the lucky winner will have a stake driven through their heart, and will no longer be playing the game. Villagers win when all wolves and their allies have been staked or otherwise eliminated. Wolves and their allies win when the ratio of wolves to humans is 1:1. Each day will end at 9pm Eastern time, which is 7pm my time. Votes cast at 9:01 Eastern time or later will not count. Votes must be in bold. Night actions will be due by 9:00am Eastern time.

[Blade6119]

Of note, from the page one rules. Although Dr. Raimen counts as a villager in the ratio, that appears to only affect the wolves conditions, as below it states the Villagers must eliminate all of the wolves and their allies. Allies are listed as Dr. R and Count D
What it means is, since he no longer has powers, he is just a villager voting against us. The dracula and the wolves are far bigger threats, as we will lose to the ratio, and nothing us. The doc helps us for now, as without him, i think were at most 2 days away. With him, i think we have 3(assuming all misses)

[Barkeep49]

I really feel quite strongly that you're bad, and almost every post reinforces that.
I agree molson's post have been different. Of course as a new player I don't quite know what to make of it.

[Barkeep49]

What it means is, since he no longer has powers, he is just a villager voting against us. The dracula and the wolves are far bigger threats, as we will lose to the ratio, and nothing us. The doc helps us for now, as without him, i think were at most 2 days away. With him, i think we have 3(assuming all misses)
I'd agree that the doctor isn't nearly the threat the wolves or Count Dracula is, but I'd still rather not have a bad guy's ally running around.

[st.cronin]

Of note, from the page one rules. Although Dr. Raimen counts as a villager in the ratio, that appears to only affect the wolves conditions, as below it states the Villagers must eliminate all of the wolves and their allies. Allies are listed as Dr. R and Count D

Sorry, that's misleading. I'll edit the first post. The village wins when wolves and the vampire are killed - bad guys win when the # wolves + vampire = # of humans.

[molson]

I really feel quite strongly that you're bad, and almost every post reinforces that.

At this point I welcome a some suspicion, because it's interesting where it comes from. I KNOW those people are on the wrong track - I just don't know whether they're simply mistaken, or evil.

[Blade6119]

I agree molson's post have been different. Of course as a new player I don't quite know what to make of it.
The only argument i have against molson and tangle is that the doc would want me dead after doing the work to set me up. Id imagine he would fight against my attempts to survive, hence tangle and molson being quite stubborn with their points taints them to me.

Again though, i suspect every person who votes for me on some level, and maybe even more so the ones that dont(waves at anxiety :p )

[Blade6119]

At this point I welcome a some suspicion, because it's interesting where it comes from. I KNOW those people are on the wrong track - I just don't know whether they're simply mistaken, or evil.
Now look in the mirrow when you keep accusing me, as everyone will ask that question about you when i die...make sure your ready to answer it tomorrow

[Grammaticus]

One post entirely did it for me, and here it is:


That was before you pointed it out, before i baited torgo, before any of that(but on day 2, not day 1). Now, the reason it doesnt earn my full trust is that day one he liked my check in post, he voted for me. Hence why he is not fully trusted like you and schmidty. I considered the fact it was a day 2 comments leaves the possibility he either was doc and scanned me or just picked up on it. Mostly i trusted him for it though.

Post#406 for reference
I've actually been waiting for you or one of your allies to start drumming it up on me again:)

The night kills did not come out of MY COT list. I did not have Alant or GoldenEagle on there and they turned up good. And the last days kills all came out of MY leaning bad list of which they all turned up good. Plus when you were asked why Lathum was not trusted you just posted my reason. Since I am the only person who listed a good/bad list, and the wolves know I am good, they are picking off my list, not yours.

So stop playing that silly crap. The bottom line is, the bad guy saved YOU. That makes you the highest probability of being bad of anything we have on the table.

That does pass that Occum test.

[Blade6119]

I've actually been waiting for you or one of your allies to start drumming it up on me again:)

The night kills did not come out of MY COT list. I did not have Alant or GoldenEagle on there and they turned up good. And the last days kills all came out of MY leaning bad list of which they all turned up good. Plus when you were asked why Lathum was not trusted you just posted my reason. Since I am the only person who listed a good/bad list, and the wolves know I am good, they are picking off my list, not yours.

So stop playing that silly crap. The bottom line is, the bad guy saved YOU. That makes you the highest probability of being bad of anything we have on the table.

That does pass that Occum test.
You do know my post was explaining to path why you should be trusted, right? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Grammaticus]

What it means is, since he no longer has powers, he is just a villager voting against us. The dracula and the wolves are far bigger threats, as we will lose to the ratio, and nothing us. The doc helps us for now, as without him, i think were at most 2 days away. With him, i think we have 3(assuming all misses)
The doctor still gets to scan each night and wins with the wolves. He will out our masons or other potential hidden roles. I already pointed that out. That is hugely dangerous.

[Grammaticus]

Sorry, that's misleading. I'll edit the first post. The village wins when wolves and the vampire are killed - bad guys win when the # wolves + vampire = # of humans.
Okay, I still think Raiman is important as he can still scan us.

[Blade6119]

dola, i am the only person in this game who says i trust gramat, and the only one he wants to kill...gotta love WW

[Grammaticus]

You do know my post was explaining to path why you should be trusted, right? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Yes, it was your explaination of why you had listed trust yesterday.

Today is a new day and the whole PM picture has changed.

Also in post 406 it talks about either laying a clue or a trap. I don't think the clue part worked out to favor us Villagers.

[Blade6119]

Yes, it was your explaination of why you had listed trust yesterday.

Today is a new day and the whole PM picture has changed.

Also in post 406 it talks about either laying a clue or a trap. I don't think the clue part worked out to favor us Villagers.
Ok, your quite set in your ways...ill only ask one thing of you gramat, since you are soo convinced..tomorrow, when you learn im a villager, come back and read my posts from this whole day. Hopefully, knowing im a villager will open up some of the logic in them.

[molson]

Now look in the mirrow when you keep accusing me, as everyone will ask that question about you when i die...make sure your ready to answer it tomorrow

I understand that. I just haven't seen a "Blade's a villager" scenerio that I can remotely accept.

On the slim chance you're a villager though, I don't think a wolf would be your most vocal accuser (especially when you'll have many votes against you).

[Blade6119]

I understand that. I just haven't seen a "Blade's a villager" scenerio that I can remotely accept.

On the slim chance you're a villager though, I don't think a wolf would be your most vocal accuser (especially when you'll have many votes against you).
Since today is a foregone conclusion, humor me and asume im a villager for a second. In that totally outlandish scenario, who do you think is evil?

[Alan T]

dola, i am the only person in this game who says i trust gramat, and the only one he wants to kill...gotta love WW
:D

[molson]

Since today is a foregone conclusion, humor me and asume im a villager for a second. In that totally outlandish scenario, who do you think is evil?

If you're a villager, and killed, I don't think there's any debate that the villagers have would be up against the wall. As I said, I think it might be time to force the issue with the Masons and engineer some ties. Their power increases with each round they survive, and I don't know how much longer we could wait.

As for specific other evil doers - I haven't thought about it much over the last day or so. Off the top of my head, I'd look closer at Anxeity, or anyone that's participated, but hasn't took much of a stand (SunDvls?)

[Blade6119]

Gramat, want to answer the same question. If in some alternate universe you thought i was a simple villager, who would you think is bad?

[Grammaticus]

Gramat, want to answer the same question. If in some alternate universe you thought i was a simple villager, who would you think is bad?
Honestly Blade after yesterday and consider we are probably looking at a 10-5 ratio of villagers to wolves+Dracula, I think you really are the only solid option right now. I cinsider it important to wack Raiman so he does not fook us up with his scans and general mayhem in voting. So that really leaves the ratio at 9-5. That is guessing 4 wolves.

After killing you, we can look at how votes have moved over the past few days and try to develope a circle of trust and go from there.

I honestly cannot think of any plausible reason to leave you alive. The simple route makes sense in this scenario.

[Blade6119]

Honestly Blade after yesterday and consider we are probably looking at a 10-5 ratio of villagers to wolves+Dracula, I think you really are the only solid option right now. I cinsider it important to wack Raiman so he does not fook us up with his scans and general mayhem in voting. So that really leaves the ratio at 9-5. That is guessing 4 wolves.

After killing you, we can look at how votes have moved over the past few days and try to develope a circle of trust and go from there.

I honestly cannot think of any plausible reason to leave you alive. The simple route makes sense in this scenario.
Tommorrow, i will find it quite interesting to watch how you play after basically saying there are no other suspects...as tomorrow you will be done at least two more villagers, and will basically be back to day 1 it seems. Really, should be fun to watch :(

[path12]

I suspect molson and tangle as well, but im having a hard time figuring out if its becuase of something they have said or the simple fact they are accusing me. Hence why i have, and will continue to, pursued a chief rum lynching.

Like I said, I'll have to wait to try and get specific posts to back this up, but my general reasons are:

molson -- he has been bound and determined not to just question the idea of a COT, but to actively campaign against it and push for it being a plot by the bad guys. If you're new to the game, I can see being confused about the value and such, but to just come out so strongly about it sets off alarms to me.

Tangle -- it struck me reading all the activity yesterday that Tangle is playing a different role than usual......it's kind of gut and nebulous, but I got the feeling that he was encouraging all the directions that people were flying in yesterday. It's in the best interest of wolves to spread confusion and doubt and he just seemed to be willing to give a nudge to anyone in any direction.

[Blade6119]

Like I said, I'll have to wait to try and get specific posts to back this up, but my general reasons are:

molson -- he has been bound and determined not to just question the idea of a COT, but to actively campaign against it and push for it being a plot by the bad guys. If you're new to the game, I can see being confused about the value and such, but to just come out so strongly about it sets off alarms to me.

Tangle -- it struck me reading all the activity yesterday that Tangle is playing a different role than usual......it's kind of gut and nebulous, but I got the feeling that he was encouraging all the directions that people were flying in yesterday. It's in the best interest of wolves to spread confusion and doubt and he just seemed to be willing to give a nudge to anyone in any direction.
By far, you are my best chance of survival right now. So, despite the fact i want chief dead, i will vote wherever i have the best shot of staying alive. That lies with you, so are you willing to vote either of these two today?

[path12]

By far, you are my best chance of survival right now. So, despite the fact i want chief dead, i will vote wherever i have the best shot of staying alive. That lies with you, so are you willing to vote either of these two today?

I'd say it's likely that I'm voting one of those two today. Haven't decided which yet though.

I don't think it's going to really matter for you today though. I think it's a situation where until people know for sure about you one way or another that we won't be able to move forward. If I'm right about you being good, then that will make our margin of error smaller, but actually can really give us a nice push towards finding the evil.

[molson]

[QUOTE=path12]

molson -- he has been bound and determined not to just question the idea of a COT, but to actively campaign against it and push for it being a plot by the bad guys. If you're new to the game, I can see being confused about the value and such, but to just come out so strongly about it sets off alarms to me.
[QUOTE]

I see the potential value of a COT, but feel that potential is dampened somewhat when the leader is a wolf or Dr. R.

[Blade6119]

I'd say it's likely that I'm voting one of those two today. Haven't decided which yet though.

I don't think it's going to really matter for you today though. I think it's a situation where until people know for sure about you one way or another that we won't be able to move forward. If I'm right about you being good, then that will make our margin of error smaller, but actually can really give us a nice push towards finding the evil.
Trust me, ive known my fate since yesterday half an hour to the lynch...im been counting the minutes since then...but i still cant find it in myself to simply roll over a die, although it wont matter as i will be gone all day today

[Blade6119]

I see the potential value of a COT, but feel that potential is dampened somewhat when the leader is a wolf or Dr. R.
Just wait molson, every comment you make is digging yourself a nice hole for tomorrow...my retribution shall come swiftly and sweetly :D

[SnDvls]

I don't like his finger pointing at me.
Blade I hope your right on this or I'm probally the next to go.

vote molson

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE MOLSON

Path, hope your with me...its my only shot of staying alive another day, and with it my part in the villager ratio.

[Blade6119]

dola, though i reiterate id much rather vote for chief rum, and would love if everyone would lynch him instead

[bulletsponge]

ok i just got in for lunch so i can make a quick observation. last night Blade said he wouldnt be on much today, now i see hijm doing exactly what i expected from him, hes trying to get other people killed to save his wolf lovin butt. his enemies were killed yesterday, neither were wolves. now he wants us to kill anxiety and chief rum.

with all due respect, last night doesnt pass the bullshit test in my book. your a wolf or Dr reimann. if your a wolf then its great for us to kill you NOW! if your the Dr you have top go also, because you can do test to find out who the masons are, and then spill the beans about them for all the wolves to know. id say the odds of you being a bad guy is around 95% right now.

the fact that you have convinced some peeps to vote your way today only convinces me furthar that you are a da,mn good player, and if your a baddie we must kill you pronto.

ill be back in a few hours to post more, but for now

Vote Blade

[path12]

the fact that you have convinced some peeps to vote your way today only convinces me furthar that you are a da,mn good player, and if your a baddie we must kill you pronto.

It's not a matter of him swaying me today, I'm on record saying I lean towards him being good for a couple days now. And I would just point out that for as much doubt that has been cast on the COT, everyone in it who has died so far has been a villager.

Every time in the past that Blade has had the duke role he has made it public early on and waved it at anyone who disagreed with him. But I'm not going to try to dissuade you, like I said before I don't know that we can get a consensus to move forward with until this question is resolved.

I will, however,

VOTE MOLSON

again.

[Grammaticus]

Every time in the past that Blade has had the duke role he has made it public early on and waved it at anyone who disagreed with him. But I'm not going to try to dissuade you, like I said before I don't know that we can get a consensus to move forward with until this question is resolved.

I will, however,

VOTE MOLSON

again.
Dr. R is not simply the Duke role. He has other powers, of which testing lives on. That is a reason why Blade may not make it public, if he was the DR. He would want to be able to keep using that power.

[bulletsponge]

wow sure is quiet.....

[Barkeep49]

Yes it is. But hardly surprising given the circumstances of the day.

[Abe Sargent]

dola, i am the only person in this game who says i trust gramat, and the only one he wants to kill...gotta love WW


I said that I don't beleive youa re a wolf, but you are suspicious of me :)

That's the way it goes.

Path - why tangle? What has there been that's triggered something for you?

[Abe Sargent]

If you're a villager, and killed, I don't think there's any debate that the villagers have would be up against the wall. As I said, I think it might be time to force the issue with the Masons and engineer some ties. Their power increases with each round they survive, and I don't know how much longer we could wait.

As for specific other evil doers - I haven't thought about it much over the last day or so. Off the top of my head, I'd look closer at Anxeity, or anyone that's participated, but hasn't took much of a stand (SunDvls?)


If Blade turns up clean, going after me is a poor choice. If I were an antagonist, and I knew Blade was a dead man walking, I would NOT defend him. I'd be right in the middle of the pack. When so many are so convinced someone is bad, it is the easiest thign to go along with it, because then you can hide your vote as a wolf, which is something you want to do.

[tanglewood]

Interesting day so far. I guess Blade is doing as expected, trying to come up with scenarios to save his hide.

I will reiterate why I think Blade should be the one lynched today, it's simple 2+2. Blade was due to be lynched, then Blade was saved by the bad guys. Likelyhood that Blade = bad guy is so much higher than anyone else it's almost irresponsible to vote for another player at this point. Blade is asking us to take a chance on believeing him, but considerung we are 7 villagers down already, we can't afford to take a chance.

[Abe Sargent]

I'll roll with the molson vote of path, although he is not my top candiate, as an alternative to Blade.

Vote Molson


Remember, if this game has 3 WW and a vampire, we are looking at 11-4.

Tonight, if we lynch Blade, and he is the good Dr as most seem to think, that drops to 10-4. A vamp night kill and suddenly we are facing a 9-4 situation and quickly entering the endgame. On the other hand, even if Blade is the doctor, hitting a wolf/vamp topnight makes it a reliable 11-3 ratio - much more doable.

[Barkeep49]

If Blade turns up cleanI think my vote tomorrow, barring further revelations, is on molson. He's played a strange game and seems like as good of a hit as any.

If Blade does turn up clean there's going to be a lot of pressure on the good guys tomorrow, that's for sure.

[st.cronin]

Current vote totals

7 - Blade - Chief Rum, Barkeep, DaddyTorgo, tanglewood, molson, farrah, Grammaticus
4 - Molson - SnDvls, Blade, path12, Anxiety

not voted:

Swaggs
Bulletsponge
greyroofoo
dodgerchick

[Lorena]

Okay, all caught up a couple things really stand out:

- Shortly before deadline yesterday, Blade shows up out of nowhere... as if he and the wolves were IMing each other and as soon as he was a suspect, out he comes to prove his "innocence".

- Based on what a lot of you have said, Blade always wants people to give a reason for a vote and that gameshow scenario doesn't add up.

Vote Blade

[bulletsponge]

you missed my vote on the last page i believe Cronin, but ill say it again

Vote Blade

[Barkeep49]

Okay, all caught up a couple things really stand out:

- Shortly before deadline yesterday, Blade shows up out of nowhere... as if he and the wolves were IMing each other and as soon as he was a suspect, out he comes to prove his "innocence".

- Based on what a lot of you have said, Blade always wants people to give a reason for a vote and that gameshow scenario doesn't add up.

Vote Blade
It's possible that Blade and his evil cohort were IM'ing each other but I do have a screen name for Blade and Blade was not signed on last night as far as I can tell.

[path12]

Path - why tangle? What has there been that's triggered something for you?

It was a general feeling I was getting reading yesterdays drama. It seemed to me that Tangle was playing a very different game than normal and was almost encouraging any and all theories that came up (and with the new folks there were plenty of theories to go around. That's not a knock, by the way). It's an effective way of spreading confusion around, and that normally doesn't mark his style. He's always struck me as very focused and logical.

Go back if you get a chance and skim through those 5-6 pages, I'd be interested to see what you (or anyone else) think or if it was just my imagination.

[Grammaticus]

I'll roll with the molson vote of path, although he is not my top candiate, as an alternative to Blade.

Vote Molson


Remember, if this game has 3 WW and a vampire, we are looking at 11-4.

Tonight, if we lynch Blade, and he is the good Dr as most seem to think, that drops to 10-4. A vamp night kill and suddenly we are facing a 9-4 situation and quickly entering the endgame. On the other hand, even if Blade is the doctor, hitting a wolf/vamp topnight makes it a reliable 11-3 ratio - much more doable.
If it is not your top candidate, why put it on Molson, moving the vote bit by bit closer for movement to assist Blade? If all the outstanding votes drop on Molson, it is a tie. All the non-Blade votes sitting on Molson is not indicitive that Blade is doomed.

[Grammaticus]

dola,

With Bulletsponge's note above it would not be a tie, but still within one.

[Swaggs]

Not certain on this one, but too much evidence points towards blade after last night.

Vote Blade6119

[Barkeep49]

Not certain on this one, but too much evidence points towards blade after last night.

Vote Blade6119
I don't think any of us are certain. Just seems like the best bet.

[path12]

OK. I first learned this from Barkeep and find it useful at times when I'm trying to figure out if someone is bad or not. Here is a listing of all of Tanglewood's posts from the time the game started:

#152 -- if reading rules correctly, wolves can't communicate so voting records not important.
#155 -- never mind after clarification by cronin.
#187 -- says vote for Chief because he didn't vote is weak. Votes Swaggs.
#225 -- unvotes Swaggs, votes Noddadropp for not being around.
#241 -- says ndp's last post was before roles sent out, could have been a wolf and not known it.
#255 -- reposts #241 in response to Gram.
#393 -- Well, I think that Lathum's leap onto Blade 'because he's still alive' is pretty weak really. As others have pointed out there are plenty of other vets still left, although I grant you there's perhaps no-one with his notoriety.

Gramm I agree with some others just seemed a bit too helpful and at the forefront. Sometimes as a wolf the best place to hide is out in the open. I also agree with Blade that Bullet and Chubby's exchange of votes on day one seems a bit odd, but not exactly incriminating. I know on day one a few times I have taken the simplistic 'well I know I am not a wolf, so if you're voting for me you might be a wolf' logic, which whilst not really all that helpful generaly, is pretty much all you have on day one.

Despite Grammaticus' pushyness, I do think his idea of setting up ties to have the masons decide them is intruiging. Without a seer we really don't have much hard information at all in this game, so utilising what little we have most directly could be a good strategy. What are the possible downsides to deliberatly setting up ties? I guess that the wolves could hijack it and try to force it one way or the other, but if we get one ser up I think it would be helpful.
#396 -- meaningless post.
#455 -- no read, gut vote for SnDvls because he's experienced and UTR.
#457 -- asks for vote count.
#468 -- Once again, I would like to state that I am intruiged by the proposition of creating a tie. What would the possible bad effects of that be? Surely it puts us in the best position to use all the knowledge we have?
#473 -- asks Alan why he doesn't want a tie. Asks if he knows what will happen.
#499 -- St. Cronin, if a player is lynched will you tell us if they were a mason also?
#540 -- response to Torgo theory about Alan death clearing Gram. Says at the time Gram was leading the vote so wanted the tie to have a chance to stay alive. (actually, Chubby was in lead. Alan's late vote was for Gram and CAUSED the tie).
#543 -- corrects last post.
#586 -- responds to PM info, says it doesn't matter at this point, those have little credibility after first few days.
#596 -- tells blade he's being too clever.
#599 -- dola to 596.
#601 -- meaningless.
#609 -- suspects PM's to both sides were near identical with only one word changing.
#613 -- retracts after Blade points out that wolves and masons would need to know who each other are.
#633 -- to molson, thinks we do have COT w/schmidty, blade & path, would like to include himself but not sure the others would.
#637 -- meaningless.
#673 -- meaningless.
#675 -- asks DC if her PM was lengthy.
#884 -- just caught up, disappointed that Lathum & Fouts are up, doesn't suspect either. If someone can make a case he'll listen.
#900 -- Not sure Blade is wolf, but thinks Lathum/Fouts are clean. Votes Blade. (second on blade after Lathum).
#911 -- asks for vote count.
#921 -- agrees w/Lathum votes still out there are worrying. Notes many are sliding by w/o voting.
#925 -- questions Blade's 'gameshow-esque' voting process.
#975 -- response to Anxiety dissing vote -- says that the way Blade voted for Fouts flagged it for him.
#996 -- meaningless.
#1015 -- If I were Dr. Reimman, Blade would be one of the first player's I'd test, so I think it's likely, whether you are wolf or villager, that Reimann knows what you are.

Of course, it could be a newbie player who is the Reimann so could possibly a) Not have known who the vets were and tested random people (i.e. not Blade) and b) Have tested Lathum, found he was a villager and panicked as the vote moved away from him deciding to move it back.

Of course, Blade could be Reimann himself. His whole 'I am a villager, I will not fight against my accusers, what's the point?' defence in the last 15 ins or so before the lynch could suggest someone who knew he wasn't going to be lynched tonight.
#1039 -- counter to Blade protesting he wouldn't kill all three on his list if bad.
#1047 -- asks those hypothesizing a setup who they should lynch today instead? Thinks Blade is a wolf saved by Dr R w/o his knowledge.
#1053 -- counter to Torgo. Why not Blade is wolf/Dr R, makes obvious play then defends self saying why would I do that?
#1058 -- scenario is fragging his brain.
#1059 -- asks Blade why he won't say who he suspects.
#1119 -- Votes Blade, simplest and best option.
#1226 -- reiterates why he thinks Blade should be lynched. Says we can't afford to take a chance.

So it seems I was mistaken a bit when I said that Tangle was encouraging all the stuff flying around yesterday afternoon, he only had a few posts in there. Frankly, some of the earlier stuff around the Chubby/Gram tie pings me much more, but the last day or so doesn't so much. Of course, it could be that if Lathum/Fouts/Blade are all good, there isn't any reason not to be as helpful as possible........

[Greyroofoo]

vote blade

[bulletsponge]

i think after we finish of Dr Blades we put some pressure on some of the newer players. one or 2 are bound to be wolves. and noobies are more likely to make a mistake when flustered. plus it will encourage them to post :)

[st.cronin]

Current vote totals

11 - Blade - Chief Rum, Barkeep, DaddyTorgo, tanglewood, molson, farrah, Grammaticus, Dodgerchick, Bulletsponge, Swaggs, greyroofoo
4 - Molson - SnDvls, Blade, path12, Anxiety

[SnDvls]

wow everyone voted today...must be a WW first :)

[bulletsponge]

farrah your reading now. give us some womanly insight as to who are on your suspect list?

[Barkeep49]

So building off of path's posts, I think it is helpful to do this before we know results:

What does it tell us if Blade comes up clean?
What does it tell us if Blade comes up guilty?

[Abe Sargent]

Still 10 peops around

[path12]

So building off of path's posts, I think it is helpful to do this before we know results:

What does it tell us if Blade comes up clean?
What does it tell us if Blade comes up guilty?

Well, I'm leaving the office now and won't be home before lynch -- but it's a very interesting question either way. If he's guilty I can't be too shocked just based on the amount of evidence, but it would obviously put a hole in my theories.

We should at least get some good clues from this lynch.

[molson]

It seems there's not much too say until we get the results - though I have some theories on the day's activities once we know.

My biggest concern going forward (as long as I'm alive) is that we're completely overlooking some guilty people. Most surviving players have checked in, been relatively active, but haven't made waves, and have gone under the radar. It's hard to differentiate them.

[SnDvls]

So building off of path's posts, I think it is helpful to do this before we know results:

What does it tell us if Blade comes up clean?
What does it tell us if Blade comes up guilty?

if he's clean where do we go? is it another set up?

if he's guilty, who of those that voted for him knew it, because you would have to believe some of them do?

these are my first questions.

[Barkeep49]

Let's say he's clean. How many bad guys voted for him? Let's assume 3 wolves in that scenario. I would say 1 or 2.

Now let's say he's guilty. I would say all 3 wolves voted for him.

[Blade6119]

I wasnt lying, fyi...have fun tomorrow villagers, you guys got led astray yet again today and killed another simple villager