Werewolf XLVII City of Wonder (Game Over!)

[Barkeep49]

<color=red>All your lives you have lived in a village full of magical items and creatures. Sometimes this is great, such as the plows that harvest the fields for you, but other times, such as now, it’s not so great. For the village has now been infected by werewolves. The werewolves, who have assumed the identities of long time village residents, are determined to take over this wondrous place for themselves. </color>

<u>Basic Rules</u>
This game follows normal Werewolf rules. There are villagers and wolves. The wolves may communicate with each other freely, while the villagers may post only in this thread. The wolves must achieve 1-1 ratio to win, the villagers must kill all the wolves. The Day Cycle will run from 9:30 AM Eastern to 10:30 PM. The Night Cycle will run from 10:30 to 9 AM.

<u>Voting</u>
Players should cast a vote each day they are alive. The player who receives the most votes is lynched. Failure to vote leaves a 50% chance that an item will not work if used.

Votes should be at the end of a post and bolded.

Example:
You are evil Werewolf22!

Vote Werewolf22

<u>Items</u>
At the start of the game each player will receive at least 1 item. All items below are in the game and some items are in the game more than once. Some items are randomly given to a player with no items. If all players have an item, it will be randomly given to a player who has the fewest items. Items may only be exchanged at night.

Charm of Persuasion – If the vote is tied the possessor of this item will break the tie, even if the person they voted for did not have the most votes. Must be given away each night or it will be randomly given to a player with no items. If used it will randomly go to a new player.

Crystal Ball – Allows a player to spy on another player for 1 night. A wolf may choose instead to find a wearer of a Wolfbane necklace. This player will be randomly chosen among all who have a wolfbane necklace (real or fake). This item is randomly given to another player after being used.

False Wolfbane necklace – Looks identical, except by the item detector, to the Wolfbane necklace. If attacked by wolves, this will cause the player to become converted. A player scanned while wearing this will appear to be a wolf. May be kept for 2 night cycles and then must be given away or it will be randomly given to another player. A wolf may not give this item to another wolf.

Identity Switch – Causes the player using to switch identities with another player for the night. The player whose identity has been switched will not know of the switch. If used no other item may be used that night or the following night. If it has not been used after 2 nights it will be given to another player randomly. This item leaves the game after being used.

Item Blocker – May prevent one player from using any items. After being used will be given randomly to a player with no items. After being used 3 times it will leave the game.

Item Destroyer – May be used to destroy one item in the player’s possession. This item leaves the game after being used.

Item Detector – May detect what item(s) another player possess. The item detector will then go to the player who was scanned.

Item Interceptor – Used against another player. If that player was to receive any items they will go to the possessor of the Interceptor instead. Will be randomly given to a player with no items after being used (whether or not any items were intercepted).

Pardon – If possessed by the top vote getter no lynch will occur that day. Once used it leaves the game. Must be given to a new player each night. Failure to do so will result in that player’s vote not counting the next day and the pardon being given randomly to a player with no items. The wolves may not give the same pardon to another wolf more than once.

Psychic Link – Each night a possessor of the link may name up to 2 other players. If one of those players has the psychic link they will be allowed to talk privately during the following day’s cycle. After a successful link this item is removed from the game for both players.

Silver Knife – May be used to kill a player. If that player killed is not a wolf the person who uses the knife dies. May be kept for up to 3 night cycles but then must be given away or it will be randomly given to another player. This item will leave the game after being used.

Wolf Scanner – Is used to scan if another player is a wolf. That player will know if they are scanned. If not used on a night it will be given randomly to another player. Once it has been used it will leave the game.

Wolfbane leaf– Protects the owner against wolf attack. If possessed by a wolf may overcome wolfbane protection (leaf or necklace). Must be given away or it will be randomly given to another player without an item. This item will leave the game after being used.

Wolfbane necklace – Protects the owner against wolf attack. If possessed by a wolf, it will cause the Wolf Scanner to show the person as a villager. May be kept for 2 night cycles and then must be given away or it will be randomly given to another player. A wolf may not give this item to another wolf. If it prevents an attack it will be automatically given to another player.

<u>Items of Dead Players</u>
If a player is killed by wolves the wolves will randomly receive one of that player’s items (so if the player had just one item the wolves get that item). Any other items will be randomly given to players.

When a player is lynched each item will be randomly given to a player who voted for them. Each player can only receive one item this way. If the lynched player had more items than players who voted for them, the remaining items will be randomly given to other players.

<u>Order of Night Actions</u>
1. Items being given away are sent
2. Items being used are activated
3. Wolves attack
4. Items which are randomly given are given

[Barkeep49]

Roster
1. Alan T
2. st.cronin (Lynched Day 2) Wolf
3. Lathum
4. Pass (Killed Night 2)
5. path
6. Lonestargirl
7. Daddy Torgo (Lynched Day 1)
8. Render
9. saldana
10. Chief Rum (Killed Night 1)
11. hoopsguy (killed Night 2)
12. ardent enthusiast
13. Swaggs
14. ntndeacon
15. Golden Eagle

[Barkeep49]

Place holder 2

[Barkeep49]

Sign-ups will continue until Monday at 8 PM Eastern. Roles will be sent out shortly after that and the game will start after all the roles (and items) have been sent.

[hoopsguy]

Sign me up - I really enjoyed the last item game I played.

[Poli]

I'm in if accepted.

[DaddyTorgo]

in

[Barkeep49]

I'm in if accepted.
It's good to have you back.

And a quick note: If we get up to 14 players I'm likely going to add in a couple more items that I'd left out considering the smaller nature of the game.

[Swaggs]

I'll play again.

[Lathum]

is there a thread in the GD forum?

[Barkeep49]

is there a thread in the GD forum?
No. A good idea. I'll post it tomorrow in hopes of catching the work crowd.

[ntndeacon]

in por favor

[RendeR]

This sounds downright interesting =) glad I got in on this one!

[Lathum]

when are roles coming out?

[SnDvls]

This game is starting on July 2nd correct?

[Lathum]

This game is starting on July 2nd correct?

I doubt it.

that would be a week from now. I was under the impression it was starting today

[saldana]

I'm in if accepted.

you can play, i will just kill you on the first night again :D

btw, that was a respect kill, not a spite/revenge kill as had been suggested...i asked the others if we could take you out because you are usually very good at catching me when i am a wolf

[ntndeacon]

you can play, i will just kill you on the first night again :D

btw, that was a respect kill, not a spite/revenge kill as had been suggested...i asked the others if we could take you out because you are usually very good at catching me when i am a wolf

Vote saldana

[Barkeep49]

I doubt it.

that would be a week from now. I was under the impression it was starting today
This is correct. I'm sending out roles and items tonight and Day 1 will start then.

[SnDvls]

This is correct. I'm sending out roles and items tonight and Day 1 will start then.

ahh ok I'll have to pass then as I'm going out of town later in the week.

[Poli]

you can play, i will just kill you on the first night again :D

btw, that was a respect kill, not a spite/revenge kill as had been suggested...i asked the others if we could take you out because you are usually very good at catching me when i am a wolf

No worries, I wasn't aware it was thought of as a spite kill, though I could certainly understand that reasoning.

[hoopsguy]

No worries, I wasn't aware it was thought of as a spite kill, though I could certainly understand that reasoning.

That was me - just trying to figure out why you were offed first, as I didn't see a whole lot in your postings on Day 1 that should have made you a target.

[Poli]

I can't even remember what I posted. :)

[LoneStarGirl]

I am ready to play! Although I am flying to Houston on Thursday till the 4th... but I will have computer access. I am trying to talk golden eagle to play this game but we will be busy wednesday cuz he turns 23. But as soon as he gets home Ill tell him to get online and join

[Lathum]

I am ready to play! Although I am flying to Houston on Thursday till the 4th... but I will have computer access. I am trying to talk golden eagle to play this game but we will be busy wednesday cuz he turns 23. But as soon as he gets home Ill tell him to get online and join

23. sigh...

he should, I always enjyed playing in games with him

[Alan T]

I don't even remember my 23rd bday. I just know I lived in Texas back then :)

[LoneStarGirl]

I wish I was living in Texas right now Alant.

Anyway, I used my womanly powers to convince GE to play this game so sign him up.

Now if we can only get Kwit and whoever else stopped playing because of Blade/Bek back in the game we will be set :D

[Lathum]

sweet, welcome GE

[Barkeep49]

Glad to have GE aboard. Rules have been finalized. Roles will be going out shortly. It should be noted that the wolves are receiving the template used for villagers in their PM.

[Alan T]

Got my role PM and checking in!

[saldana]

villager checking in

[Barkeep49]

The rumors of the wolves have turned out to be true.

For generations your city has been a fantastical place. A place that has worked hard to seal itself off from the outside. From vampires. From werewolves. From the evil that seems to pervade other places. And why not? The life of most citizens is a pleasant one. While most of the world is corrupted by magic, held captive to it, this city has harnessed it and used it for good. Need something swept up? No problem a broom will do it for you. Need to get somewhere quickly? Surely a neighbor can lend you some horseshoes of swiftness. It is a privilege and honor to be part of the city. People cherish the magical heirlooms which have been handed down from generation to generation, whose purpose has long been rendered moot.

But now all that has changed. A few of the citizens had reported seeing wolfish creatures when last journeying outside the city’s protected area. The typical precautions were taken. Never before had there been demonic penetration with-in the city thanks to a combination of vigilance and magic.

Yesterday when it was discovered that there had been a tear in the magic, the city went into a tizzy. And now last night one of your long time residents, Barkeep, was found murdered, mauled is more like it. And so it is clear that the wolves have somehow made their way into the city. The city elders are fairly confident that the evil was contained into a small area. A citywide search was performed, but nothing was turned up. This can only mean that they have somehow incorporated themselves into citizens. The small area effected, consisting of about 15 citizens, has been quarantined. The elders are confident that they will know when the evil has been eliminated. It is up to you few to find, and kill, any who might be part of this evil.

Good luck.

Day 1 has begun. Day 1 voting deadline is Tuesday at 10:30 PM.

[Lathum]

villager checking in

[ntndeacon]

another villager checking in.

[Barkeep49]

VERY IMPORTANT

I meant to add this in to the rules, and was not sent to the wolves in their role PMs:

Twice per game two wolves may attack at night, for the potential of two night kills.

[hoopsguy]

Wolfbane necklace – Protects the owner against wolf attack. If possessed by a wolf, it will cause the Wolf Scanner to show the person as a villager. May be kept for 2 night cycles and then must be given away or it will be randomly given to another player. A wolf may not give this item to another wolf. If it prevents an attack it will be automatically given to another player.

1. Items being given away are sent
2. Items being used are activated


So, in the order of actions if I was to give this item to someone, who was then attacked by a wolf later that night, would this activate automatically? Or would they have had to possess it earlier in order to activate it in the event they were attacked?

Just trying to understand the strategy behind some of the items and picked this one as an example. People should not read into this as suggesting that I possess the listed item.

Oh, and villegar checking in - just in case people put weight behind those statements.

[Barkeep49]

Well the wolfbane items are passive defenses that only activate if used. But yes you could pass someone the wolfbane necklace and if that person was attacked later that night they would be protected.

[GoldenEagle]

Role received. Hopefully I can remember how to play.

[LoneStarGirl]

hmmm so hoopsguy has wolfbane necklace. I must remember that.

I recieved my role. This is going to be a difficult game for me because I am all about action but since it seems most the items are out of the game after they are used I am going to have to wait to use them.

Wish me luck :P

[path12]

Should all the roles have been sent? I don't have mine.

[RendeR]

Yay I get to be a villager again! I haven't been a wolf in any game yet. Not sure if I should be happy for dissapointed =)


Question: You give items away as your night actions, correct? or can it be done during the day? And in order to give it away one must PM you stating "Give XXXXX my XXXXXX item"? And if I fail to PM you you randomly relocate my item(s) to another player?

I just want to get these item mecahnics down pat.

[Barkeep49]

Should all the roles have been sent? I don't have mine.
Indeed. Will send yours along shortly as I must have missed you.

[Swaggs]

Got my PM and checking in.

[Barkeep49]

Question: You give items away as your night actions, correct? or can it be done during the day?

Items can only be given away at night.
And in order to give it away one must PM you stating "Give XXXXX my XXXXXX item"?
Correct
And if I fail to PM you you randomly relocate my item(s) to another player?
If an item must switch hands and I have no PM on who to give it to, it will be done randomly. Some items are always switched randomly (crystal ball for instance).

[Poli]

Villager here.

[st.cronin]

Villager checking in. I have an item. I think all players have an item, is that right?

[path12]

Checking in. I have an item also.

[DaddyTorgo]

villager checking in. i do believe I have 2 items (if i recall what i read yesterday night correctly), and one of them should prove very useful to the village

[DaddyTorgo]

LSG...womanly powers? all about action??

Ummmmm

[Chief Rum]

Villager.

I'll be gone most of the day, as usual, on Tuesday. I'm going to try to log on before I go to my second job, though, to put in a more meaningful vote. If you don't dee me, though, that's why.

Hope we catch a wolf.

[st.cronin]

I'm assuming the vote against saldana (by ntndeacon) doesn't count, since it was made before roles went out. I'll make the first vote:

vote Alan T

For forcing me to reveal that I was the seer in the last game.

[Alan T]

I'm assuming the vote against saldana (by ntndeacon) doesn't count, since it was made before roles went out. I'll make the first vote:

vote Alan T

For forcing me to reveal that I was the seer in the last game.

:rolleyes: I didn't force you to do that, I just made two bad reads last game is all. I read you wrong, thinking you were trying to get the seer to reveal, and I read DT wrong figuring that a wolf wouldn't have done the things so obviously as he did. I'm not the only one who makes mistakes anyhows.

[st.cronin]

:rolleyes: I didn't force you to do that, I just made two bad reads last game is all. I read you wrong, thinking you were trying to get the seer to reveal, and I read DT wrong figuring that a wolf wouldn't have done the things so obviously as he did. I'm not the only one who makes mistakes anyhows.

I actually blame both you and Barkeep, but I can't very well vote for Barkeep. :p

[Alan T]

I actually blame both you and Barkeep, but I can't very well vote for Barkeep. :p

I still feel the way I did about that game, coming out with what you said the way you did was too obvious to me of a move, and I thought it was an attempt to get the real seer to go after you and draw a target on their back. Thus I moved my vote after you to try to take that heat instead. I didn't think as the seer you would have done that. If you feel thats a good enough of a reason to vote for me, then so be it. I would probably make the same move again in the future if I felt the need to. :)

[Barkeep49]

I actually blame both you and Barkeep, but I can't very well vote for Barkeep. :p
Sure you can. I think we'd all be amused.

[Passacaglia]

Villager here. I'll put in a vote.

VOTE ST.CRONIN

[Lathum]

I may be out until close to deadline unless I get a chance to run home real quick.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

pretty random but his " I never die early in werewolf" comments make me think he needs to be humbled :)

[ntndeacon]

I'm assuming the vote against saldana (by ntndeacon) doesn't count, since it was made before roles went out. I'll make the first vote:

vote Alan T

For forcing me to reveal that I was the seer in the last game.

It was before the day starts, so I am assuming it does not count as well. Even if it does though, I will be voting later that would override that choice.

[saldana]

for the same reason as last game...i just think someone should do this to make him feel better...


vote hoopsguy

[Barkeep49]

It was before the day starts, so I am assuming it does not count as well. Even if it does though, I will be voting later that would override that choice.
The vote does not count.

[RendeR]

Hrm, its very early and I might change my mind, but since it IS day 1 and we know nothing at all, I'll stick with my stand by day 1 vote and :


Vote DaddyTorgo

[Alan T]

Still early, but I'll thow out a vote.

For being the first person to be a second vote on someone:

Vote Render

Not really set on this firmly, and could change later. Just need something to go on for day 1 and this is as good as anything I guess.

[ntndeacon]

I kinda think that the first to be the second vote on someone is usually NOT a wolf. The reasoning is this....Most wolves know of the infamy that dreaded position and will avoid it at all costs. So at least for the first day Render has moved up on my trust list some.

[ntndeacon]

Since I need to vote I will do it now, if I need to change later I can. Don't havea great reason to vote for anyone, so Iwill go will a sneaky wolf when he is in that situation...
Vote path

[LoneStarGirl]

Damnit Lathum and render, that was supposed to me my job.

Daddy you brought this on yourself

vote daddytorgo

[Alan T]

I kinda think that the first to be the second vote on someone is usually NOT a wolf. The reasoning is this....Most wolves know of the infamy that dreaded position and will avoid it at all costs. So at least for the first day Render has moved up on my trust list some.

You are probably right, but with it being day 1, It was a reason beyond rolling dice at least. I'll likely do the same thing I do in most games if it looks like a run away and move my vote to at least try to keep the vote somewhat close and meaningful. Right now there are 3 votes for one player and everyone else with 1 or 0. If the votes all run away on DT, we don't really learn anything down the road from this vote.

And to not have the same arguement used against me as was used last game, no I don't want ties, I don't like ties, but keeping things close to keep an eye out for late movement only helps us later.

[DaddyTorgo]

been really busy all day (trip to montreal canceled. stupid air canada stupid canceled flight). Should at least be home early, but may not post much before then. lots of data-entry work going on right now.

saw something about runaway of votes on me. don't all pile on me. i'm a villager. and i have some cool toys (i think).

[RendeR]

Please PLEASE don't read anything into my vote. I know absolutely nothing and my vote is just a fallback to "Well I voted for DT first last time, so wtf.."

[Passacaglia]

Please PLEASE don't read anything into my vote. I know absolutely nothing and my vote is just a fallback to "Well I voted for DT first last time, so wtf.."

Then are you willing to move it, and vote for someone else?

[path12]

No clue where to go, so I will:

VOTE ARDENT

Just to welcome him back. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Please PLEASE don't read anything into my vote. I know absolutely nothing and my vote is just a fallback to "Well I voted for DT first last time, so wtf.."

could be a wolf running scared and not wanting to be pinned down to a D1 vote??

[Swaggs]

Vote Render

A day one vote, but I thought his post #41 was a little over the top in trying to sell the fact that he is not a wolf. Probably nothing, but it doesn't take much to get on my Day 1 radar.

[hoopsguy]

for the same reason as last game...i just think someone should do this to make him feel better...


vote hoopsguy

Hmm, weren't you a wolf last game when you put that vote out there? :p

I'm going to put a vote on NTN for participating in second-level thinking. His defense of RendeR, for not doing the obvious wolf play, is clearly the move of a wolf looking to build trust early in the game. So I have no choice but to engage in third-level thinking and cast my vote for the obvious wolf. This game is easy sometimes :cool:

VOTE NTNDEACON

[ntndeacon]

Hmm, weren't you a wolf last game when you put that vote out there? :p

I'm going to put a vote on NTN for participating in second-level thinking. His defense of RendeR, for not doing the obvious wolf play, is clearly the move of a wolf looking to build trust early in the game. So I have no choice but to engage in third-level thinking and cast my vote for the obvious wolf. This game is easy sometimes :cool:

VOTE NTNDEACON

Does this say that you believe Render is good? Cuz that is what iread into this. Maybe this is a wolf using third level thinking to throw us off his track. It is enough for me to be suspicious of you. Trying to weed out folks who will try to think like the wolves might.

[hoopsguy]

NTN, if I do go with the premise that you = wolf then I think I tilt RendeR towards the good side just a bit. But more or less this post was just made with the intention of having some fun with a pretty random Day 1 vote.

[ntndeacon]

Oh I realized that you were just giving a reason for your vote and having a bit of fun. I definately wasn't offended. And could tell it was somewhat random.

[Barkeep49]

Here's a vote count for you:

Alan – st.cronin (51)
cronin – Pass (56)
Daddy T – Lathum (57), Render (61), LSG (65)
Hoops – saldana (59)
Render – Alan (62), Swaggs (72)
Path – NTN (64)
Ardent – path (70)
NTN – Hoopsguy (73)

No Vote: Rum Ardent, GE, Daddy T

[LoneStarGirl]

who has Daddy voted for Barkeep?

[Barkeep49]

who has Daddy voted for Barkeep?
No one. Now corrected.

[LoneStarGirl]

Just keeping you on your toes :D

[RendeR]

Then are you willing to move it, and vote for someone else?


Absolutely, if given a valid reason to do so I will happily jump my vote onto someone else. Me voting for DT on day 1 is like...wandering up to the tasty-freeze and ordering a vanilla cone...its just a default action.:D

[DaddyTorgo]

my original message was wrong. I'm a villegar still, and I have 2 items of fun. Gonna see how I can use them.

[DaddyTorgo]

self-preservation vote.

although I wonder if that's what the wolves want, hmm?

VOTE RENDER

[Passacaglia]

Absolutely, if given a valid reason to do so I will happily jump my vote onto someone else. Me voting for DT on day 1 is like...wandering up to the tasty-freeze and ordering a vanilla cone...its just a default action.:D

That seems like an odd strategy.

UNVOTE ST.CRONIN

VOTE RENDER

[st.cronin]

self-preservation vote.

although I wonder if that's what the wolves want, hmm?

VOTE RENDER

You keep mentioning that you have some neat items, now you're suggesting that the wolves are pushing us at Render and you for some reason? This comes off to me as trying a bit too hard.

[DaddyTorgo]

You keep mentioning that you have some neat items, now you're suggesting that the wolves are pushing us at Render and you for some reason? This comes off to me as trying a bit too hard.

that 2nd comment about the pushing was more...meta-game than this particular game. Just a sorta...realization I had.

and my items...they are pretty cool I guess. But then again I think that most of the objects in this game are nifty. I have the charm of persuasion for one. And something else.

[Poli]

pretty random but his " I never die early in werewolf" comments make me think he needs to be humbled :)QFT.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[Poli]

No clue where to go, so I will:

VOTE ARDENT

Just to welcome him back. :)
I got welcomed back with a candy cane, thanks.

[st.cronin]

When a player is lynched each item will be randomly given to a player who voted for them. Each player can only receive one item this way. If the lynched player had more items than players who voted for them, the remaining items will be randomly given to other players.

Just saw this. Pretty clearly gives the wolves some incentive to vote for DaddyTorgo, since he's hinted he has some neat items.

[Poli]

Chalk me up as a mad villager from the last game.

[Poli]

And a mad villager this game.

[Barkeep49]

my original message was wrong. I'm a villegar still, and I have 2 items of fun. Gonna see how I can use them.
Just confirming that that DT's original PM was indeed wrong.

[GoldenEagle]

I am here and checking in. I am spending the next hour or so catching up.

[GoldenEagle]

So not much information on the first day. I find the notion that voting for DaddyTorgo simply because of a comment during a previous game a bit silly. I do understand that this is day 1, but we seem to be throwing more darts than normal.

Render does seem to come over as a bit over the top. Does that mean anything? Not really. It could be not playing for awhile or something of that nature. His comments are off the wall, but nothing to get to suspicious about, yet.

But things are going to be close, and I am going to hold on to my vote for the time being. Would we want on Day 1? I am in the opinion of no, and that may lean my vote toward DT.

[path12]

But things are going to be close, and I am going to hold on to my vote for the time being. Would we want on Day 1? I am in the opinion of no, and that may lean my vote toward DT.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

[Alan T]

Just an updated vote count. Right now the vote is tied with 2 voters left.

(4) Daddy T – Lathum (57), Render (61), LSG (65), Ardent (87)
(4) Render – Alan (62), Swaggs (72), DaddyTorgo (83), Passacaglia (84)
(1) Alan – st.cronin (51)
(1) Hoops – saldana (59)
(1) Path – NTN (64)
(1) Ardent – path (70)
(1) NTN – Hoopsguy (73)

No Vote: Rum, GE

[st.cronin]

My guess path is he was talking about a tie. Given that DT has claimed to hold a tiebreaker, a tie might not be a bad thing.

[Poli]

Oh, wow. I tied it? Sweet.

[Passacaglia]

My guess path is he was talking about a tie. Given that DT has claimed to hold a tiebreaker, a tie might not be a bad thing.

I agree with this. We can at least maybe catch him in a lie? Or catch him in the truth?

[Alan T]

I agree with this. We can at least maybe catch him in a lie? Or catch him in the truth?

I can't really see any benefit in lying about having this. Regardless if he is wolf or villager, I would have to assume if he said he has it, then he has it. It would just be foolish to lie about something so easily tested to be caught in regardless of which side he is on.

I guess the next question though is ..

If he is a wolf, I assume he wouldn't want a tie set up with another wolf friend, thus most likely Render would be good if he is bad.

If he is a villager, he has no idea if Render is good or bad, thus using it is purely self preservation.

So is it benefitial for us to try to force him into using it if he was a wolf or not? I guess I go back to the thought that I just hate ties as it leaves too much unknown. As far as I can tell, the only benefit from leaving it tied is to test to see if he is lying about having an item that he would be foolish to have said he had in the first place if he didn't. Regardless if he uses it or not, he would lose it after today according to the rules. I just guess I see this as if he's bad we don't want it a tie. If he is good, we don't want it as a tie.

[GoldenEagle]

My guess path is he was talking about a tie. Given that DT has claimed to hold a tiebreaker, a tie might not be a bad thing.

That is correct. I was speculating whether or not we would want a tie.

[st.cronin]

I can't really see any benefit in lying about having this. Regardless if he is wolf or villager, I would have to assume if he said he has it, then he has it. It would just be foolish to lie about something so easily tested to be caught in regardless of which side he is on.

I guess the next question though is ..

If he is a wolf, I assume he wouldn't want a tie set up with another wolf friend, thus most likely Render would be good if he is bad.

If he is a villager, he has no idea if Render is good or bad, thus using it is purely self preservation.

So is it benefitial for us to try to force him into using it if he was a wolf or not? I guess I go back to the thought that I just hate ties as it leaves too much unknown. As far as I can tell, the only benefit from leaving it tied is to test to see if he is lying about having an item that he would be foolish to have said he had in the first place if he didn't. Regardless if he uses it or not, he would lose it after today according to the rules. I just guess I see this as if he's bad we don't want it a tie. If he is good, we don't want it as a tie.

I sympathize with your thinking, but its day 1. We don't often get an opportunity on day 1 to have a meaningful vote.

[path12]

My guess path is he was talking about a tie. Given that DT has claimed to hold a tiebreaker, a tie might not be a bad thing.

Ah, got it. I wasn't aware we had a tie.

[Alan T]

I sympathize with your thinking, but its day 1. We don't often get an opportunity on day 1 to have a meaningful vote.


Fair enough, but I guess what I am asking is what meaning does this vote have?

If we keep it a tie, and DT has the item proven, does that give us trust of him? If he doesn't have the item then yeah I guess then we definitly have less trust of him, but then we leave the vote in the hands of who knows whom?

The main point I am making is I have yet to see in the rules where specific items = trust. Its more about how the items are used that builds trust in my mind, and using an item for self-preservation doesn't really tell me much other than he wants to stay alive.

[st.cronin]

Fair enough, but I guess what I am asking is what meaning does this vote have?

If we keep it a tie, and DT has the item proven, does that give us trust of him? If he doesn't have the item then yeah I guess then we definitly have less trust of him, but then we leave the vote in the hands of who knows whom?

The main point I am making is I have yet to see in the rules where specific items = trust. Its more about how the items are used that builds trust in my mind, and using an item for self-preservation doesn't really tell me much other than he wants to stay alive.

I assume GE's going to break the tie. My bigger concern is what I brought up earlier, which is that the player lynched, his items get distributed to players who voted for him. Since I posted that, there's been hardly any movement at all, which makes me worry that the wolves are on the two leaders. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I'm thinking of moving my vote to somebody else. Maybe Rum, who had a chance to vote earlier and didn't. Or maybe Passacaglia or ardent, who have jumped on the two leaders.

[Poli]

I can't remember the last time I "couldn't wait" to see how day 1 ended. Considering EVERYONE probably has an item, this should be mildly entertaining to say the least.

[GoldenEagle]

I don't think that DT having that item gives me anymore trust in him. It just proves that he had the item and that he is still alive. If Render does come up to be a wolf, then I still do not have complete trust in DT.

[path12]

Fair enough, but I guess what I am asking is what meaning does this vote have?

If we keep it a tie, and DT has the item proven, does that give us trust of him? If he doesn't have the item then yeah I guess then we definitly have less trust of him, but then we leave the vote in the hands of who knows whom?

The main point I am making is I have yet to see in the rules where specific items = trust. Its more about how the items are used that builds trust in my mind, and using an item for self-preservation doesn't really tell me much other than he wants to stay alive.

Hey Alan, you and I agree for once! :D

I don't see how having the Charm of Persuasion equals good at all. I thought we all got an item or two.

[hoopsguy]

I could potentially see someone as a wolf suggesting that they have an item that would deter people from voting for them. I do agree that using this item certainly doesn't clear someone, but being honest about an item is probably slightly more villager than wolf behavior.

As Cronin pointed out, we at least have something to discuss here on Day 1. And that alone makes it a smidge more interesting than the norm.

[path12]

Does anyone know offhand how many votes DT had on him when he revealed the item?

I guess I could look it up......

[st.cronin]

unvote Alan T
Vote ardent enthusiast

[hoopsguy]

I'm also pleased to see 7 people hanging out in the thread right now.

[path12]

It was 4-3 Render when DT revealed the item. I don't know what that means if anything, but I'm not sure why you'd reveal what you have at that point.

[Alan T]

I assume GE's going to break the tie. My bigger concern is what I brought up earlier, which is that the player lynched, his items get distributed to players who voted for him. Since I posted that, there's been hardly any movement at all, which makes me worry that the wolves are on the two leaders. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I'm thinking of moving my vote to somebody else. Maybe Rum, who had a chance to vote earlier and didn't. Or maybe Passacaglia or ardent, who have jumped on the two leaders.

I tend to usually assume a day 1 run on people more often than not ends up being a villager or two villagers, and the wolves try to stay out of it all together. Of course that wasn't true about the last game, but I would wager more often than not that is the case. Its hard for me to say without a full grasp of how items move around to know what others will try to do strategy wise in regards to them. Many of the "better" items tend to pass randomly to people that don't have any items, which would be an incentive to not have an item at all in hopes of getting one of those. The part that makes me give some agreement to what you hypothesized is that DT came out to say he had nice items which might end up being more juicy for someone wanting. I assume when it is said the items will go randomly to someone who voted for them, that its just random.org picking thus perhaps it benefits everyone villagers and wolves to do vote switches at the end in hopes of either getting an item or keeping an item from the other team.

I guess I am very curious to see who switches at the end to try to ensure someone is lynched and to get an item. This game more than others will cause me to have much more suspicion of people who create runs on folks for that reason I guess.

[Poli]

unvote Alan T
Vote ardent enthusiast
Right back at you.

UNVOTE DT

VOTE CRONIN

[Poli]

Nah, screw that.

UNVOTE CRONIN

VOTE DT

[GoldenEagle]

I am voting for DaddyTorgo. Here is the reason: My assumption is that he has the tie-breaker. I do not think he is lying about that. If he is a villager, then we just lose a villager and the item goes back into play with only a slight chance that it will go to a wolf. If he is a wolf, then we eliminate the chance of him being able to use the item and gaining trust, by saying that he was telling the truth about that item and therefore, is a villager.

I hope this rambling makes sense....

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[st.cronin]

I have to say, I'm pretty suspicious of ardent right now.

[Poli]

I'm not sure what to make of cronin's infatuation with me. It's not like his girl has contacted me on myspace in the last couple of months.

[path12]

If we go with a tie strategy, we are essentially saying that we believe Render is a wolf or that DT is lying if a tiebreak goes another way. If DT is not lying about the charm then we really don't learn a damn thing with this vote. Typical day 1 I suppose.

[path12]

Dola, didn't see GE's vote. Nevermind.

[path12]

Is Chief working tonight?

[st.cronin]

Yeah, he was on before, and said he might not be back, but he didn't vote.

[Lathum]

I have to say, I'm pretty suspicious of ardent right now.

I was thinking the same thing about you.

[st.cronin]

I was thinking the same thing about you.

:confused: Why?

[path12]

Yeah, he was on before, and said he might not be back, but he didn't vote.

Hmmm.

Well, barring a last minute switch it's DT by one vote. I think I'm OK with that for a day 1.

[Lathum]

:confused: Why?

it just seemed odd to change a vote so late unless you were changing it to one of the 2 likely candidates

[st.cronin]

Odder than ardent tying it up?

[DaddyTorgo]

well i'll use my tiebreaker I guess. Dunno how that works. Going to read the rules.

[path12]

well i'll use my tiebreaker I guess. Dunno how that works. Going to read the rules.

It goes to the person you voted for. So Render is lynched.

[path12]

Dola, but I think it wasn't tied. I'm so mixed up.

[Lathum]

Odder than ardent tying it up?

IMO yes.


what was the point of your vote. I realize it's day one and random but it just seemed odd.

[Poli]

You meaning odder than me tying it up and not realizing it until later? Come on wolf, I mean, cronin.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh. I guess it just means that RendeR dies cuz I have it? I want to use it keep...however I do that.

*shrug* I have no knowledge good or bad of what RendeR is. The vote for him was entirely self-preservation.

[path12]

oh. I guess it just means that RendeR dies cuz I have it? I want to use it keep...however I do that.

*shrug* I have no knowledge good or bad of what RendeR is. The vote for him was entirely self-preservation.

I have it 5-4 you. So there is no tiebreak. Unless I'm wrong.

[DaddyTorgo]

well that sux ballz.

Way to go guys. Now I can't use the damm crystal ball to try to find a wolf or buuild trust in another villager. So that's a day lost.

[st.cronin]

IMO yes.


what was the point of your vote. I realize it's day one and random but it just seemed odd.

I explained it like this, several posts before I made the vote:

My bigger concern is what I brought up earlier, which is that the player lynched, his items get distributed to players who voted for him. Since I posted that, there's been hardly any movement at all, which makes me worry that the wolves are on the two leaders. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I'm thinking of moving my vote to somebody else. Maybe Rum, who had a chance to vote earlier and didn't. Or maybe Passacaglia or ardent, who have jumped on the two leaders.

[Alan T]

well that sux ballz.

Way to go guys. Now I can't use the damm crystal ball to try to find a wolf or buuild trust in another villager. So that's a day lost.

I've gone on the record saying so before, but information like that should have been presented before you were lynched. Yeah it puts a target on your back tonight, but perhaps some of us have items that could have been passed to you to try to protect you in order to get that information. I personally couldn't have moved my vote in a way to save you if I had believed you, but if your death is on the line and killing you would be harmful to the village (moreso than another villager being killed), you should share that information.

[Poli]

Am I seeing this wrong? Shouldn't the deadline have already passed?

[Alan T]

Am I seeing this wrong? Shouldn't the deadline have already passed?


Yeah, Barkeep is probably totalling up the vote, writing the end of day result, etc.

[path12]

Well, c'mon, damnit. I picked up Titan Quest and need to plow through some more undead. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

I've gone on the record saying so before, but information like that should have been presented before you were lynched. Yeah it puts a target on your back tonight, but perhaps some of us have items that could have been passed to you to try to protect you in order to get that information. I personally couldn't have moved my vote in a way to save you if I had believed you, but if your death is on the line and killing you would be harmful to the village (moreso than another villager being killed), you should share that information.

I thought I had said enough earlier to move stuff off me, hinted at some stuff that hopefully wouldn't get me lynched.

I didn't want to come right out and say anything. put a nice big target on my back.

[Barkeep49]

Am I seeing this wrong? Shouldn't the deadline have already passed?
Yeah, deadline was over. I kept refreshing to see how it turned out :D. Forgot that I had to do the turning out part :)

[st.cronin]

I definitely think DT had said enough. I'm surprised GE voted the way he did, to be honest.

[Poli]

Well, c'mon, damnit. I picked up Titan Quest and need to plow through some more undead. :)

Lucky!

.

[LoneStarGirl]

haha good one barkeep

[Poli]

I think someone could have swayed the vote one way or another. I think I recall an item doing that. That could lead us to a different outcome. Like I said, I'm interested to see how this turns out.

[Barkeep49]

Turning against one of your own is not easy. There seems to be no real rhyme or reason as to which way you should turn. At first.

However, over the course of the day the bragging, long ago and perhaps better off forgotten, of Render and DaddyTorgo draws the ire of their fellow citizens. As the day winds to a close it is DaddyT who suffers the fate of the mob. Using their assembled might they incapacitate DT before striking him down. He falls easily, far too easy to have been possessed by a werewolf. He was but a normal citizen.

The day has ended and now the night, and the fear, is upon the city.

Final Vote Count:
(5) Daddy T – Lathum (57), Render (61), LSG (65), Ardent (116), GE (117)
(4) Render – Alan (62), Swaggs (72), DaddyTorgo (83), Passacaglia (84)
(1) Hoops – saldana (59)
(1) Path – NTN (64)
(2) Ardent – path (70), cronin (111)
(1) NTN – Hoopsguy (73)

No Vote: Rum

[LoneStarGirl]

Well that sucks for us villagers. But at least DT learned his lesson about flaunting his werewolf success ;)

[Lathum]

Sorry DT

[LoneStarGirl]

I think Rum needs to explain his non vote tonight... I hate when people miss votes.

Also, we dont HAVE to do anything tonight correct? We can keep our items if we would like and accept others if they are sent to us? I just dont want to screw up like I did last game

[st.cronin]

I think Rum needs to explain his non vote tonight... I hate when people miss votes.

Also, we dont HAVE to do anything tonight correct? We can keep our items if we would like and accept others if they are sent to us? I just dont want to screw up like I did last game

Read the description of your item in Barkeep's opening posts. Some items you have to use, or you lose them. I think mine is of that type.

[Barkeep49]

I think Rum needs to explain his non vote tonight... I hate when people miss votes.

Also, we dont HAVE to do anything tonight correct? We can keep our items if we would like and accept others if they are sent to us? I just dont want to screw up like I did last game
Correct. Some items, if unused, go to another person though. Also there is a penalty for not passing a pardon.

[Poli]

I really thought we'd see some sort of fireworks. Guess I'll have to wait until the 4th of July.

[Barkeep49]

I really thought we'd see some sort of fireworks. Guess I'll have to wait until the 4th of July.
Sorry. Death scenes are not my forte.

[Poli]

No, no, no. It's not you. I just figured we'd see all sorts of people doing this, that, and the other with their items.

[hoopsguy]

Well, c'mon, damnit. I picked up Titan Quest and need to plow through some more undead. :)

Hope you enjoy TQ - it has gotten a ton of hours on my PC.

[RendeR]

Ack...well if I'd known my BS vote for Daddytorgo would get him lynched in the end I'd have changed it earlier. Sorry dude =( I wasn't able to get online for a couple hours, my router took a dump =(

I feel like shit now. Bleh.

[Passacaglia]

Ack...well if I'd known my BS vote for Daddytorgo would get him lynched in the end I'd have changed it earlier. Sorry dude =( I wasn't able to get online for a couple hours, my router took a dump =(

I feel like shit now. Bleh.

I'm not sure I understand.

[Swaggs]

Even though DT went down, I think that was actually a very productive Day 1. The voting could potentially be very useful down the road. There is/was a definite two player runaway with some (for lack of better terms) throwaways.

If we can identify whether Render is good or bad in the near future, we could learn quite a bit.

[Barkeep49]

Quick clarification: On something like the wolfbane leaf, it does not have to be given away tonight. So you can keep that tonight and give it away on Night 2. This is one of several reasons why the give action takes place before items are used. A similar logic would apply to anyone who got something from Daddy T.

[st.cronin]

Even though DT went down, I think that was actually a very productive Day 1. The voting could potentially be very useful down the road. There is/was a definite two player runaway with some (for lack of better terms) throwaways.

If we can identify whether Render is good or bad in the near future, we could learn quite a bit.

Agree that it was an interesting vote, but I'm not really inclined to look at Render. I'm more interested in people that voted for DT.

[Lathum]

Agree that it was an interesting vote, but I'm not really inclined to look at Render. I'm more interested in people that voted for DT.

I'm actualy inclined to look at the throw away votes. Like someone said, usualy day one is villager vs. villegar and the wolves stay clear.

[st.cronin]

I'm actualy inclined to look at the throw away votes. Like someone said, usualy day one is villager vs. villegar and the wolves stay clear.

It irritates me that I have to keep pointing this out, but DT's items go to the players who voted for him. So the wolves had extra incentive to vote for DT, owing to the rules.

[RendeR]

Agree that it was an interesting vote, but I'm not really inclined to look at Render. I'm more interested in people that voted for DT.

Umm, not that I want to point this out, again, but *I* voted for DT. Granted it was a total throw away as I had no reason to vote for him or anyone. But I didn't think you should ignore me when you say you are interested in those who voted for DT.

[path12]

Hope you enjoy TQ - it has gotten a ton of hours on my PC.

I'm enjoying the hell out of it so far. I'm level 9 and just leaving Megara.

[Chief Rum]

I think Rum needs to explain his non vote tonight... I hate when people miss votes.

Also, we dont HAVE to do anything tonight correct? We can keep our items if we would like and accept others if they are sent to us? I just dont want to screw up like I did last game

I agree. I hate it when people miss votes, too. I especially hate it when I am that person.

Unfortunately, I had to stay over at my first job to finish a late rush file, and didn't have enough time to get to a computer before my next job started.

Given we ended up in a close vote and killed a villager, this, of course, looks particularly bad, and I would understand a move to lynch me. Doing so, though, will only kill another villager.

I actively chose not to vote this morning because that is pretty much what I did last week (voted early and first in the last game because of a two-job day) and y'all lynched me for it. So you got no ones to blames but yerselves. Next time don't lynch the first guy when he says he will be gone all day at his jobs and has no choice but to vote early (and BTW, LSG, you yourself were one of those voters). ;)

Since a nonvote may result in my item not working, I will not by using it tonight. I believe it is valuable and wouldn't want to waste it.

I only work the day job tomorrow, so I will be back in time to put in a vote, short of my car breaking down or something stupid and odd like that.

[path12]

Umm, not that I want to point this out, again, but *I* voted for DT. Granted it was a total throw away as I had no reason to vote for him or anyone. But I didn't think you should ignore me when you say you are interested in those who voted for DT.

You're not cleared. But I think that if you're a wolf, then GE just put himself in league with you on the late vote, and that would be something that could be sorted out relatively quickly. So you and GE are just slightly elevated for now in my eye.

But when you said earlier that you would have changed your vote, I call bullshit. :p If you had moved you were likely lynched.

[saldana]

shitty that DT went down...in case anyone cared..i went out drinking tonight and didnt get back until after the deadline..i will be more active tomorrow evening.

[Barkeep49]

Just got back from Die Hard. I was hoping to process results now, but am still missing 3 actions. Will do it in the morning which might be slightly late. I apologize for the inconvenience.

[Alan T]

Just got back from Die Hard. I was hoping to process results now, but am still missing 3 actions. Will do it in the morning which might be slightly late. I apologize for the inconvenience.

How was the movie? My normal Friday night date night is being moved to Wednesday night for other various reasons, and this was one of our choices to possibly see tonight. (ok more my choice than hers, she isn't really super motivated to see it) :)

[Barkeep49]

Sending out night results now.

[Alan T]

Sending out night results now.

Way to not answer my question about the movie!

[Passacaglia]

I assume GE's going to break the tie. My bigger concern is what I brought up earlier, which is that the player lynched, his items get distributed to players who voted for him. Since I posted that, there's been hardly any movement at all, which makes me worry that the wolves are on the two leaders. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I'm thinking of moving my vote to somebody else. Maybe Rum, who had a chance to vote earlier and didn't. Or maybe Passacaglia or ardent, who have jumped on the two leaders.

cronin -- here's the first post I see you mention that the items get distributed to the players who voted for him, and in it you say you brought it up earlier. You mentioned that DT has some neat items, but I don't see any post in which you brought up the fact that the items get distributed to players who voted for him. You've been irritated about bringing it up a few times, and you mentioned that there was hardly any movement, but I'm not sure what kind of reaction or movement you expect. I figure, especially on Day 1, even a villager is likely to keep his vote on DT, thinking that his items have no bearing on whether or not he's a wolf, and if he happens to be a villager, at least they get a chance to get a cool item. Anyway, I see the point you're trying to make, but I'm not sure how we can use it to hunt some wolves.

[Passacaglia]

Way to not answer my question about the movie!

Yeah no kidding. Who cares about who's dead, and who has what items now -- we demand to know about Die Hard IV!

[st.cronin]

cronin -- here's the first post I see you mention that the items get distributed to the players who voted for him, and in it you say you brought it up earlier. You mentioned that DT has some neat items, but I don't see any post in which you brought up the fact that the items get distributed to players who voted for him. You've been irritated about bringing it up a few times, and you mentioned that there was hardly any movement, but I'm not sure what kind of reaction or movement you expect. I figure, especially on Day 1, even a villager is likely to keep his vote on DT, thinking that his items have no bearing on whether or not he's a wolf, and if he happens to be a villager, at least they get a chance to get a cool item. Anyway, I see the point you're trying to make, but I'm not sure how we can use it to hunt some wolves.

Post # 89, where I quote the part of the rules:

Just saw this. Pretty clearly gives the wolves some incentive to vote for DaddyTorgo, since he's hinted he has some neat items.

Nobody responded, and the only players that voted after that were ardent and GE (going by memory).

[Passacaglia]

Right, like I said, you mentioned that DT has some neat items. I'm still not sure what kind of response or vote movement you expected to see after that.

[st.cronin]

Right, like I said, you mentioned that DT has some neat items. I'm still not sure what kind of response or vote movement you expected to see after that.

I was just hoping to get conversation going on that, but after I mentioned it twice nobody wanted to talk about it. I think its an important bit of strategy for the wolves - they will want to be on the vote leader every day, as much as possible.

[Passacaglia]

I was just hoping to get conversation going on that, but after I mentioned it twice nobody wanted to talk about it. I think its an important bit of strategy for the wolves - they will want to be on the vote leader every day, as much as possible.

Conversation is cool -- looks like we have that going now, at least. I think the same strategy applies to villagers -- villagers want cool items, too. Maybe later in the day, when it's a little more clear who's going to be voted out, the villagers should jump on to vote for that person as well? That way, we make it more likely that items go to villagers.

[Barkeep49]

The scream shot out across the city like an arrow. People leave their houses to try and find what the commotion is and finally it is found:

Chief Rum has been killed by the wolves. You have now lost two citizens. Are you any closer to finding the wolves? Hopefully the answer will be yes after today.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, my guess is that the wolves would want to put themselves in position for items if they can:
1.) identify that the person up for lynch has a particularly interesting item (DT said as much yesterday)
2.) avoid a pattern of being on the top vote getter, which is obviously easy to do on run-away votes but a little harder on a day like yesterday where it is fairly close

Why put yourself in position, time and time again, to be associated with the top vote getter for items of unknown quantity?

I'm glad you raised the point and I think it is worth considering, but when I play as a wolf I try to randomize my actions as much as possible, both in an individual game and game-to-game. The pattern you are suggesting here seems like it would be pretty easy to detect over a few days.

[hoopsguy]

Bummer for CR, who has been a Day/Night 1 casualty the last two games.

[st.cronin]

Well, I had a one time scan, used it on ardent, and he came up villager.

So I'm probably going to be picking from GE, Render, Alan, and LSG, unless something else comes up.

[hoopsguy]

Silly question that I should have asked earlier: can the wolves both use an item and attack? Assuming there are multiple wolves (duh), can the attacking wolf also use an item?

[Barkeep49]

How was the movie? My normal Friday night date night is being moved to Wednesday night for other various reasons, and this was one of our choices to possibly see tonight. (ok more my choice than hers, she isn't really super motivated to see it) :)
The movie was completely implausible. John McClaine has to be the luckiest SOB alive. However, the action sequences were great. It was just as funny as the other movies. I definitely recommend it for people who liked the earlier flicks and/or who like good action films. It was frankly refreshing to have an action film that wasn't special effects driven. I give it 3 stars.

[Alan T]

I was just hoping to get conversation going on that, but after I mentioned it twice nobody wanted to talk about it. I think its an important bit of strategy for the wolves - they will want to be on the vote leader every day, as much as possible.

I could swear that you asked me directly a question regarding this and I am pretty sure I answered you.

Conversation is cool -- looks like we have that going now, at least. I think the same strategy applies to villagers -- villagers want cool items, too. Maybe later in the day, when it's a little more clear who's going to be voted out, the villagers should jump on to vote for that person as well? That way, we make it more likely that items go to villagers.


And I am pretty sure what you said here is exactly what I said yesterday...

[Passacaglia]

Oh, bugger. I gave CR my pardon, too.

[Barkeep49]

Silly question that I should have asked earlier: can the wolves both use an item and attack? Assuming there are multiple wolves (duh), can the attacking wolf also use an item?
Yes.

[Lathum]

Conversation is cool -- looks like we have that going now, at least. I think the same strategy applies to villagers -- villagers want cool items, too. Maybe later in the day, when it's a little more clear who's going to be voted out, the villagers should jump on to vote for that person as well? That way, we make it more likely that items go to villagers.

I thought of this yesterday but wouldn't that mess us up in terms of voting patterns?

[hoopsguy]

So, what do people think about sharing the results from their items today? Given that they change hands, and enter/exit the game, it seems like there is a lot of value in doing so.

I'm sure there are items that don't make sense to share - passed items like the Pardon, for example, but stating that you had it yesterday and passed it seems harmless enough.

[path12]

Well, I had a one time scan, used it on ardent, and he came up villager.

So I'm probably going to be picking from GE, Render, Alan, and LSG, unless something else comes up.

Really? What item did you use on Ardent?

I ask because I used the wolf scanner on him last night, and he came up wolf. I chose him for two reasons -- I have a hard time reading him, and he voted for DT.

VOTE ARDENT

[st.cronin]

Cronin, my guess is that the wolves would want to put themselves in position for items if they can:
1.) identify that the person up for lynch has a particularly interesting item (DT said as much yesterday)
2.) avoid a pattern of being on the top vote getter, which is obviously easy to do on run-away votes but a little harder on a day like yesterday where it is fairly close

Why put yourself in position, time and time again, to be associated with the top vote getter for items of unknown quantity?

I'm glad you raised the point and I think it is worth considering, but when I play as a wolf I try to randomize my actions as much as possible, both in an individual game and game-to-game. The pattern you are suggesting here seems like it would be pretty easy to detect over a few days.

Those are good points, which I have also considered.

[Alan T]

I could swear that you asked me directly a question regarding this and I am pretty sure I answered you.
And I am pretty sure what you said here is exactly what I said yesterday...

Going back to see what I actually said, was:

thus perhaps it benefits everyone villagers and wolves to do vote switches at the end in hopes of either getting an item or keeping an item from the other team.

[Passacaglia]

Wow.

[Lathum]

Oh, bugger. I gave CR my pardon, too.

why CR, just curious.

[hoopsguy]

So here is what I have for items yesterday. Note that using an item, in and of itself, doesn't provide information of wolf/villager:

Day 1 items:
Cronin - wolf scanner (cleared AE)
DaddyT - crystal ball (stated before death)
Mystery player - psychic link (contacted me)
Hoops - psychic link (did not contact Path or Pass)
Pass - pardon (passed to CR)

[Passacaglia]

I thought of this yesterday but wouldn't that mess us up in terms of voting patterns?

Yeah, it does. The best I could come up with is that we wait until later in the day to make our jumps, but get some initial votes out there?

[st.cronin]

Really? What item did you use on Ardent?

I ask because I used the wolf scanner on him last night, and he came up wolf. I chose him for two reasons -- I have a hard time reading him, and he voted for DT.

VOTE ARDENT

:confused:

I used a wolf scanner on him, too. I thought there was only going to be one of each item?

[Alan T]

So, what do people think about sharing the results from their items today? Given that they change hands, and enter/exit the game, it seems like there is a lot of value in doing so.

I'm sure there are items that don't make sense to share - passed items like the Pardon, for example, but stating that you had it yesterday and passed it seems harmless enough.

My item has not been used yet to my knowledge, so I don't really feel its appropriate for me to share much about it yet. I am all for talking about it once the time comes however.

[Passacaglia]

why CR, just curious.

I thought he might take some heat for not voting yesterday, even though it's not a particularly wolfish move. So he seemed like the best candidate to both be a villager and get lynched.

[Passacaglia]

:confused:

I used a wolf scanner on him, too. I thought there was only going to be one of each item?

I believe the rules state that there will be copies of some items.

[hoopsguy]

Note - my list was as of post #187, now updated to account for Path's info:

Day 1 items:
Cronin - wolf scanner (cleared AE)
DaddyT - crystal ball
Mystery player - psychic link (contacted me)
Hoops - psychic link (did not contact Path or Pass)
Pass - pardon (passed to CR)
Path - wolf scanner (condemned AE)

In fairness, Cronin did not say he used the wolf scanner, but that was the item I saw on the list that matches his description. Path has stated he used the wolf scanner.

[Passacaglia]

Items
At the start of the game each player will receive at least 1 item. All items below are in the game and some items are in the game more than once. Some items are randomly given to a player with no items. If all players have an item, it will be randomly given to a player who has the fewest items. Items may only be exchanged at night.

For reference.

[Alan T]

Really? What item did you use on Ardent?

I ask because I used the wolf scanner on him last night, and he came up wolf. I chose him for two reasons -- I have a hard time reading him, and he voted for DT.

VOTE ARDENT


Well guess this makes today interesting. Path and Cronin both revealed different things.. why would someone lie about this on day 2? Unless one didn't know the other got scanned by someone else as well.

Do we trust Path or trust Ardent + Cronin?

I think Cronin's move seems alot fishier than Path's as he revealed before knowing someone else scanned Ardent. Path revealed after knowing full well there would be a dispute.

For now until I see other evidence pointing elsewhere, I think I'll have to side with Path on this..

Vote Ardent

[st.cronin]

Checked my role pm, I had a wolf scanner. Used once, now discarded. Is there an item, when used, which could give either path or me a bad view? I see an "item blocker," but nothing that could give us these results.

[hoopsguy]

What I do think makes sense at this point, is that if Ardent is the lynch today that either Path/Cronin is the wolf scan for this evening.

Assuming, of course, that item is in play again tonight.

[Swaggs]

Someone is busted...

Just not sure who yet.

[st.cronin]

Alan, if you're voting for ardent, then you must think I'm lying, no? What possible reason could I have to lie?

[Alan T]

Checked my role pm, I had a wolf scanner. Used once, now discarded. Is there an item, when used, which could give either path or me a bad view? I see an "item blocker," but nothing that could give us these results.

Or perhaps you and Ardent being buddy's staged your dispute yesterday and are on the same team.

[Passacaglia]

I was looking for that, too, cronin, but I don't see anything. My gut reaction is to believe path at this point, but I'm going to wait a little bit before deciding.

[Alan T]

Alan, if you're voting for ardent, then you must think I'm lying, no? What possible reason could I have to lie?


My guess is you didn't know someone else scanned Ardent last night so when you two cooked up this scheme, you failed to think of this possibility. Either way this is easily enough tested today with the vote.

[path12]

There would have to be some order to the scan. Does an item blocker only have one time use? That's the only thing I can figure that doesn't include Cronin trying to clear Ardent casually.

[hoopsguy]

Checked my role pm, I had a wolf scanner. Used once, now discarded. Is there an item, when used, which could give either path or me a bad view? I see an "item blocker," but nothing that could give us these results.

Let's just say that I can construct a scenario where you and Path could both be telling the truth about your actions and your results. But I don't want to provide cover for any guilty parties here - let them figure it out for themselves.

That is why I think that, barring further reveals today, we probably need to go ahead with an Ardent vote today and then hope someone can validate/condemn one of you/Path tonight.

[Alan T]

My guess is you didn't know someone else scanned Ardent last night so when you two cooked up this scheme, you failed to think of this possibility. Either way this is easily enough tested today with the vote.

Dola, and my reasoning for this is your reaction to finding out there was a second wolf scanner out there. That didn't seem to cross your mind before your reveal. Thus busting your plan.

[st.cronin]

Or perhaps you and Ardent being buddy's staged your dispute yesterday and are on the same team.

Ok, work with me on this. Suppose I'm a wolf. How bad a play would it be for me to clear a fellow wolf? If either one of us got lynched, the other would immediately follow.

[Passacaglia]

There would have to be some order to the scan. Does an item blocker only have one time use? That's the only thing I can figure that doesn't include Cronin trying to clear Ardent casually.

From the way I read it, an item blocker would prevent the scan from happening at all.

[Lathum]

I thought he might take some heat for not voting yesterday, even though it's not a particularly wolfish move. So he seemed like the best candidate to both be a villager and get lynched.

well I think I know where we are heading today but IMO the fact that chief was lynched is interesting.

Order of Night Actions
1. Items being given away are sent
2. Items being used are activated
3. Wolves attack
4. Items which are randomly given are given

I can see a scenerio where you pass the pardon to CR, then kill him in hopes of getting it back in the hands of wolves.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, what makes this particularly inconvenient for Cronin isn't the presence of a 2nd wolf scanner, but the fact that it was used on the same target he scanned with a different result.

[st.cronin]

Let's just say that I can construct a scenario where you and Path could both be telling the truth about your actions and your results. But I don't want to provide cover for any guilty parties here - let them figure it out for themselves.

That is why I think that, barring further reveals today, we probably need to go ahead with an Ardent vote today and then hope someone can validate/condemn one of you/Path tonight.

I suppose we could just ask ardent if he's a wolf.

[Passacaglia]

well I think I know where we are heading today but IMO the fact that chief was lynched is interesting.



I can see a scenerio where you pass the pardon to CR, then kill him in hopes of getting it back in the hands of wolves.

Slim hope. Something like 3 out of 13, I'd say? And if that's the case, why would I tell everyone I passed him the pardon, if I was being devious about wanting it back?

[Passacaglia]

I suppose we could just ask ardent if he's a wolf.

I'm pretty sure I can tell you what his answer will be.

[Alan T]

Ok, work with me on this. Suppose I'm a wolf. How bad a play would it be for me to clear a fellow wolf? If either one of us got lynched, the other would immediately follow.

Give me a better explanation then and I will consider changing my vote. If I have to choose between you being a wolf clearing a wolf Ardent, Path being a wolf condeming an innocent ardent, I find the former more likely. Your reaction showed honest suprise that there was a second wolf scanner out there. Path knew you revealed something opposite of him and had more facts coming in. I just don't see Path as a wolf making a move that would get him lynched tommorrow if Ardent turns up good. I can see several reasons you would do that.

[st.cronin]

This is definitely one of the oddest scenarios I can remember being in. I guess I have to:

Vote Path12

[Lathum]

Slim hope. Something like 3 out of 13, I'd say? And if that's the case, why would I tell everyone I passed him the pardon, if I was being devious about wanting it back?

where do you get 3/ 13 from?

If a player is killed by wolves the wolves will randomly receive one of that player’s items (so if the player had just one item the wolves get that item). Any other items will be randomly given to players.

[Passacaglia]

This is definitely one of the oddest scenarios I can remember being in. I guess I have to:

Vote Path12

No, vote ardent!!! Then you might get his items!!! ;)

[Lathum]

dola- meant to use quote tags, no bold

[Passacaglia]

where do you get 3/ 13 from?

If a player is killed by wolves the wolves will randomly receive one of that player’s items (so if the player had just one item the wolves get that item). Any other items will be randomly given to players.

My bad. I was thinking of the lynch rules. Anyway, I still think it's a lot to go through for a pardon, especially this early in the game. If I were a wolf, I'd probably pass it the one time I can, then worry about that.

[Alan T]

Alan, what makes this particularly inconvenient for Cronin isn't the presence of a 2nd wolf scanner, but the fact that it was used on the same target he scanned with a different result.


I am not entirely sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me on this statement. I guess my point is that this feels like one side or the other set it up to buy trust for someone.. who or what that is I have no idea. The only other scenerio in my head right now is that path and ardent are wolves, and Ardent will die as a wolf, which helps path gain trust and condemn Ardent. So I see three different possibilities, but they all revolve around Ardent right now so I had to go with that as my vote, but I find the one I stated to be the most likely in my mind at least.

[Lathum]

I am holding off on voting AE until he has a chance to speak, allthought it is obvios what he is going to say about why he got scanned as a wolf

[st.cronin]

No, vote ardent!!! Then you might get his items!!! ;)

I don't want ardent to get lynched. :(

[Swaggs]

I have got to lean towards believing path on this.

I just cannot fathom a wolf (or a team of wolves allowing a wolf to) make that kind of fake reveal so early in the game.

[path12]

If I'm wrong, I welcome your votes tomorrow. I don't understand what's going on and I have no other information other than what I've said, so there's not a lot else I can add to the discussion on this.

[RendeR]

I have got to lean towards believing path on this.

I just cannot fathom a wolf (or a team of wolves allowing a wolf to) make that kind of fake reveal so early in the game.


This has me leaning with you on this one Swaggs. I just don't see the wolves making a blatant error like this.

[LoneStarGirl]

Ok like Alant I didn't use my items last night. I felt no reason to. I probably will tonight though.

I am very confused about the Path / Cronin scenario. Both said they used a wolf scanner and both are saying different things about Ardent. It looks like todays vote will come between 3 players then. And it boils down to who we trust the most unless somebody else has information they haven't told us yet...

But honestly I am more inclined to believe Path right... just going off a hunch

[Lathum]

c'mon ardent. Your on the clock

[LoneStarGirl]

I dont think Ardent should get lynched for this either. I am curious to read what he has to say about all of this. I would feel better lynching cronin.... but I dont know if his lynch will tell us anything. I honestly doubt a wolf would clear a wolf on the second day. And hoops says he has a scenario in mind in which what happened is plausible. So I definitely am going to wait to give my vote.

[Passacaglia]

Twice per game two wolves may attack at night, for the potential of two night kills.

So on any given night, it takes two wolves to make an attack? And they can do it twice? So we've already made it past one kill, and if there are less than two wolves, they can't do another?

How many wolves do we think there are, given this? I'm thinking 3-4?

[Barkeep49]

So on any given night, it takes two wolves to make an attack? And they can do it twice? So we've already made it past one kill, and if there are less than two wolves, they can't do another?

How many wolves do we think there are, given this? I'm thinking 3-4?
One wolf per attack. Essentially twice a game they get a double night attack.

[hoopsguy]

I was figuring there would be three wolves, but should probably go double-check the items to see if there is any reason to think differently based on game balance.

[Passacaglia]

One wolf per attack. Essentially twice a game they get a double night attack.

Thanks for clearing that up. I figure no more than three wolves, then.

[hoopsguy]

Upon further review, my scenario would not give Cronin and Path different results assuming they are both villagers. They could both be right or both be wrong, but not have conflicting info.

So we clearly have 1-2 wolves in the mix here. Which way do we learn more? I'll start running scenarios in a few.

Hypothetical - if you were a wolf, would you take a 1:2 trade at this point? In other words, if you knew that two villagers would be killed before the lynch mob turned on you Day 5 would that be a "good" play compared to laying low?

[st.cronin]

Upon further review, my scenario would not give Cronin and Path different results assuming they are both villagers. They could both be right or both be wrong, but not have conflicting info.

So we clearly have 1-2 wolves in the mix here. Which way do we learn more? I'll start running scenarios in a few.

Hypothetical - if you were a wolf, would you take a 1:2 trade at this point? In other words, if you knew that two villagers would be killed before the lynch mob turned on you Day 5 would that be a "good" play compared to laying low?

Just out of curiosity, what was your scenario?

[st.cronin]

Because, dola, I think I see where you're going with that. And if its what I'm thinking, it would make path12 the wolf.

Another thing to consider is that, if Pass is to be believed, the wolves have the pardon.

Also I still have one item, but I don't know how useful it is.

[hoopsguy]

One of the two items that give false views - Identity Switch or False Wolfsbane. However, I really don't know how I got it in my head that you two would have conflicting info with either item. Just dumb, I guess.

[LoneStarGirl]

okay guys
It is GE's birthday today so we will be gone most of the day. I will check in before we go out tonight to vote.. I promise

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, to expand on your last comment - either you or Path is a wolf. So I'm trying to figure out why Path would play the way he did as a wolf. Obviously, you have the luxury of knowing your allegiance but the rest of us have to figure it out.

I don't think a vote for Ardent is optimal, either way, today. I would rather plow through Cronin/Path first and then use what we've learned from that to figure out our stance on Mr. Enthusiast.

[Alan T]

Upon further review, my scenario would not give Cronin and Path different results assuming they are both villagers. They could both be right or both be wrong, but not have conflicting info.

So we clearly have 1-2 wolves in the mix here. Which way do we learn more? I'll start running scenarios in a few.

Hypothetical - if you were a wolf, would you take a 1:2 trade at this point? In other words, if you knew that two villagers would be killed before the lynch mob turned on you Day 5 would that be a "good" play compared to laying low?

I think you are following the same scenerios that I lined up earlier when this came up.

The way I see it is:

1) Cronin is bad, Ardent is bad, path is good - Cronin was hoping to buy some trust for Ardent with his reveal by being out front and figuring people would look at it as too risky to be a wolf move. Plan was foiled when Path also had a scanned and scanned ardent last night. Downside to this plan in my mind - why would cronin and Ardent do this after a night that arguably they were 2 of the top 5 candidates to be viewed (along with Chief, Render and Goldeneagle in my mind)?

2) Cronin is good, Ardent is bad, path is good - I don't see how this possible with what has been told to us.

3) Cronin is bad, Ardent is good, Path is good - Once again, i don't see a strong scenerio where this shows up as Path would have told us that Ardent was good and Cronin wouldnt have most likely. In this scenerio, why would cronin have even used a wolf scanner or revealed anything?

4) Cronin is good, Ardent is bad, Path is bad - Only scenerio I can think of here is that Cronin scanned Ardent, got a false read on him due to ardent posessing an item, and Path knew this and revealed to oppose Cronin to set him up. If this is the case, why would path have done this? Cronin just vouched for Ardent, giving him a bit extra trust. This seems a very big reach as well.

5) Cronin is bad, Ardent is good, Path is bad - A big set up to get Ardent lynched then kill off one of your own? I don't see how the wolves would sacrifice a 1 for 1 swap in a game without a true seer at all.

6) Cronin is good, Ardent is good, Path is good - If someone can give me a way this is possible, I'm all ears. I havent heard or thought of one yet. I dont think this is likely at all.

7) Cronin is bad, Ardent is bad, Path is bad - Once again, why give up 2 of your own to just buy trust for one of yours? That seems incredibly foolish.

This is why I figured #1 was most likely and that Ardent and cronin are both bad, and path just busted them. My guess is that they had intended to try to point the conversation to someone else once ardent had been "cleared" and go after someone like Render or Goldeneagle today.

[st.cronin]

Only way I can see that all three of us are good is if Identity Switch, or something else, gives a bad view. For example, if somebody used Identity Switch on path, then maybe his scan gets reversed? That's not in the rules, but I can see it as a possibility.

[ntndeacon]

I think I believe path's report over cronin's at the moment. I am also not sure that there are 2 wolf trackers. So I will go with my gut here.
Vote St cronin

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, why would it give a bad view to one player and not the other? I'm more than happy to submit a question to Barkeep to ask if that is how it works (consider this post that action) but the way I interpret Post #1 does not coincide with the conflicting views.