Werewolf LVIII: Clash of the Gods (GAME OVER)

[Barkeep49]

Erg, ignore this, for some reason I thought Neon Chaos posted this.


My bad.
That's funny cause I found myself nodding in agreement with you about the original post :)

[ntndeacon]

What possible good reason do we have to believe this? And why on earth would you even try to reveal after everything everyone else has said about the reveals we've had?

At this point I wasn't trying to reveal. I figured it was about to come out anyway. (YEs Barkeep, Perhaps Iwas a bit premature, but do think I am done. )

[Barkeep49]

So Alan do we get Neon and Hoops back now?

[Neon_Chaos]

Erg, ignore this, for some reason I thought Neon Chaos posted this.


My bad.

Lol @ RendeR.

[ntndeacon]

I would guess Perseus has something to do with unstoning... or Medusa has to be dead

[ntndeacon]

I used my power the 1st day on Pass. did not trust him. I was wrong obviously.

[ntndeacon]

today used it on Racer...

[RendeR]

today used it on Racer...


You got him drunk? Kewl!

[Poli]

I'm on borrowed time. Life is on the Tivo while my wife is in the shower.

[Lathum]

I'm on borrowed time. Life is on the Tivo while my wife is in the shower.

why aren't you in there with you?

[Lathum]

err, her I mean

[Poli]

I'm only one person. ;)

She's back. I'm out.

[Poli]

Back when we catch up.

[Neon_Chaos]

Where the deuce did Alan T go!?

[RendeR]

I would assume he is in his PM's sifting through the chaos. no pun intended ;)

[Alan T]

Another day in Mount Olympus passes, as you all have spent the day in debate. Most of the debate centers around the happy event of Cronus's death and whom might have tried to unsuccessfully save him. Finally after much deliberation, the sun once again sets across the sea. From the east, you watch Uranus once again show up escorting the night to the sky. His voice booms as he says,"Today you have made me sad, for you have willingly chosen to remove one of your own."

Uranus points to Ntndeacon and says,"Come Dionysus, they do not welcome you here any longer." Dionysus stands up peacefully and simply walks out of the room. You never see or hear from him again. Ntndeacon was lynched. he was DIonysus an Olympian!

You are suddenly startled by loud trumpeting! From the nearby sea you suddenly see a figure rising from the depths. The sound is none other than the fanfare of the arrival of King Triton! Before you know it, Triton passes as quickly as he had arrived.

As you turn to look about you, suddenly you notice Barkeep missing, but across the room is a crumpled body on the floor. Laying there is a dead body, who appeared to have been crushed by super-strength. The dead body is that of Zeus, lord of the Olympians. Barkeep is dead, he was Zeus an Olympian!

Looking up from Zeus's dead body, you suddenly see Hoopsguy has returned. Behind you, also is heard a voice that was quiet for most of the day.. Neon Chaos simply says,"Does anyone have any water? I'm parched!"

Day 2 has now ended, Day 3 has now started. Deadline for Day 3 is 10:00pm EST Thursday night.

[Neon_Chaos]

FUCK.

[Lathum]

damn

[hoopsguy]

Back from the Minotaur's lair - I was kidnapped and placed there. Based on how I read the PM, I don't believe that the Minotaur is a player in the game but instead is a power someone has to remove a person from the game.

With two people removed on Day 1, I have a sneaking suspicion that one was a good guy using a power. But neither Medusa nor a Minotaur sound all that benevolent ...

[RendeR]

Damnit. Ok, seriously shitty day 2 for us Olympians. The Titans got us back in kind for the day 1 tag of Cronus.

[PurdueBrad]

Well that sucks. Although I have to selfishly admit I'm glad that my vote wasn't on Lathum when I left for the day, that would've been bad!

The reveals need to stop, at least of god names because I think the more we reveal, the more we allow the wolves to narrow down who the big three (or now two) are. Even if it comes down to you getting voted off, discuss your power/skill but perhaps not your actual name. Does this make sense or does it tie our hands too much when trying to keep from getting voted off?

[path12]

And for the record, this is bickering and ill will.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=1176811&postcount=1497


Hee! I remember that one!

[RendeR]

Gah, ok, I'm still feeling shitty so I'm gonna go rest. I'll be back in the AM

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, if you are the bodyguard color me surprised that you didn't guard Barkeep last night. He seemed like the obvious choice given his surviving a run-off with Path last night and the frequency with which he appeared on trusted lists today.

I'm also curious to hear what Anxiety, the God of War, has to say about the bodyguard reveal (I thought Ares was a likely choice as bodyguard) and why he has been left alive for two straight days after giving out his identity.

[st.cronin]

What an odd kill.

[Barkeep49]

Lathum still think actions should be scrutinized to prove I'm a bad guy :D?

[Lathum]

Lathum, if you are the bodyguard color me surprised that you didn't guard Barkeep last night. He seemed like the obvious choice given his surviving a run-off with Path last night and the frequency with which he appeared on trusted lists today.

I'm also curious to hear what Anxiety, the God of War, has to say about the bodyguard reveal (I thought Ares was a likely choice as bodyguard) and why he has been left alive for two straight days after giving out his identity.

Well since I couldn't guard myself 2 nights in a row I was sure they would be coming for me so I protected Anxiety hoping for the best.

[Lathum]

Lathum still think actions should be scrutinized to prove I'm a bad guy :D?

yes!!!

[Abe Sargent]

And for the record, this is bickering and ill will.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=1176811&postcount=1497

I miss Blade in WW :(

[st.cronin]

Well since I couldn't guard myself 2 nights in a row I was sure they would be coming for me so I protected Anxiety hoping for the best.

ROFL

[Lathum]

ROFL

whats funny about that?

[Neon_Chaos]

What an odd kill.

Not odd at all. The wolves got a faily level-headed WW player, and someone who would not hesitate to use 4 points on a vote. The wolves just got lucky that he was Zeus.

[Abe Sargent]

Lathum, if you are the bodyguard color me surprised that you didn't guard Barkeep last night. He seemed like the obvious choice given his surviving a run-off with Path last night and the frequency with which he appeared on trusted lists today.

I'm also curious to hear what Anxiety, the God of War, has to say about the bodyguard reveal (I thought Ares was a likely choice as bodyguard) and why he has been left alive for two straight days after giving out his identity.

Im no BG. I said that i had a new and interesting ability to me, way before I told that I was Ares. I have never enountered my ability before, ever, but its really, really interesting.

[Neon_Chaos]

Anxiety, you've survived two nights, after having revealed yourself... what exactly do you bring to the table?

[hoopsguy]

For what it is worth, I don't necessarily agree with Chief's logic on the Day 1 vote. I think the people who put in the late votes on Barkeep that day deserve an extra heaping of review, as they were putting the vote out of reach if BK only had his own four votes.

I think it is logical to assume that Path would self-preserve and spend more than one point in his own defense. Maybe even going to the point where he will max out and equal BK's four. What I'm guessing they did not anticipate is that other players would invest heavily in their votes against Path. Or that BK might have more votes, be immune to a Day 1 lynch, or something else Zeus-like.

So the late voters would be cementing the kill while protecting their leader. I think this scenario is at least as probable as the one outlined by Chief.

[Raiders Army]

Damn. That sucks. BK was in my CoT...and he was freakin Zeus!

I'm feeling a little sick. Maybe I caught something from Telle. At this point, I could go in either Telle or Lathum's direction.

VOTE TELLE

Based upon the Day 1 votes and the late vote here, I see this as being a good vote for Thursday.

---break break---

Again, if it is cold out I will not have internet access tomorrow morning. During lunch I have a goodbye luncheon for my deputy. Tomorrow night my son has an orchestra concert. All that being said, I will not be active tomorrow.

[hoopsguy]

OK, we've got multiple reveals out in the open that have not been challenged:

Day 1:
Anxiety - Ares, God of War

Day 2:
Arlington Colt - Hephaestus, Smith of Olympus
Lathum - Heracles, Greatest Hero of Mankind

Any that I'm missing here?

[Lathum]

Im no BG. I said that i had a new and interesting ability to me, way before I told that I was Ares. I have never enountered my ability before, ever, but its really, really interesting.

well I had to pick someone...

[Raiders Army]

Welcome back hoops.

[Raiders Army]

What the hell did you do or what happened to you? (hoops)

[DaddyTorgo]

just walked in the door. Catching up

[Racer]

darn.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, given that you didn't want to reveal that you guarded yourself on Night 1, why did you now out the player that you guarded on Night 2? That seems inconsistent, even if I asked why the bodyguard would not have selected Barkeep.

[Neon_Chaos]

For what it is worth, I don't necessarily agree with Chief's logic on the Day 1 vote. I think the people who put in the late votes on Barkeep that day deserve an extra heaping of review, as they were putting the vote out of reach if BK only had his own four votes.

I think it is logical to assume that Path would self-preserve and spend more than one point in his own defense. Maybe even going to the point where he will max out and equal BK's four. What I'm guessing they did not anticipate is that other players would invest heavily in their votes against Path. Or that BK might have more votes, be immune to a Day 1 lynch, or something else Zeus-like.

So the late voters would be cementing the kill while protecting their leader. I think this scenario is at least as probable as the one outlined by Chief.

I think that the Titans didn't expect DT putting 4 action points on his votes.

Oh, and I didn't see Medusa, or whoever it was that turned me into stone. Fucking bitch. KEEP BRINGING ON YOUR WEAK SHIT!

[hoopsguy]

Welcome back hoops.

Thanks! Glad to be back.

What the hell did you do or what happened to you? (hoops)

See below. Happy to answer any questions, but this pretty much covers it.

Back from the Minotaur's lair - I was kidnapped and placed there. Based on how I read the PM, I don't believe that the Minotaur is a player in the game but instead is a power someone has to remove a person from the game.

With two people removed on Day 1, I have a sneaking suspicion that one was a good guy using a power. But neither Medusa nor a Minotaur sound all that benevolent ...

[Raiders Army]

Ah, thanks. Missed that.

[Lathum]

. At this point, I could go in either Telle or Lathum's direction.
.[/I][/U]

ummm, what?

[Alan T]

I missed one part of the end of the day write up which I have edited in. For those not sure what was added, it was the following line:

You are suddenly startled by loud trumpeting! From the nearby sea you suddenly see a figure rising from the depths. The sound is none other than the fanfare of the arrival of King Triton! Before you know it, Triton passes as quickly as he had arrived.

[Raiders Army]

ummm, what?

Voted for Telle. That's what I did.

[Lathum]

Lathum, given that you didn't want to reveal that you guarded yourself on Night 1, why did you now out the player that you guarded on Night 2? That seems inconsistent, even if I asked why the bodyguard would not have selected Barkeep.

it didn't seem to matter much. Maybe I was wrong

[Neon_Chaos]

Lathum, I'm assuming that you're protecting yourself tonight?

[Raiders Army]

I'm also guessing that based on the description, Atlas killed Zeus. Atlas was the only one with Super Strength (other than Hercules).

[Neon_Chaos]

I missed one part of the end of the day write up which I have edited in. For those not sure what was added, it was the following line:

You are suddenly startled by loud trumpeting! From the nearby sea you suddenly see a figure rising from the depths. The sound is none other than the fanfare of the arrival of King Triton! Before you know it, Triton passes as quickly as he had arrived.

Did he really have to do a cameo?

I'm imagining a warner bros. cartoon theme, with triton holding a hat and a cane... TANTARANTAN... and he crosses the screen, only to leave.

[Raiders Army]

I'm out for the night and possibly until right before lynch tomorrow. I am not sure Telle is a Titan, but something just isn't right about her.

[Lathum]

Voted for Telle. That's what I did.

why would you even consider going in my direction?

[hoopsguy]

Racer, can you give us a heads-up on how NTN's power worked since he put his action towards you?

[Lathum]

Lathum, I'm assuming that you're protecting yourself tonight?

that would be the logical thing but I dunno

[Neon_Chaos]

that would be the logical thing but I dunno

Good. Keep them on their toes.

[Neon_Chaos]

Racer, can you give us a heads-up on how NTN's power worked since he put his action towards you?

Very good point. I have a vague idea of what ntn's power is... but let's see what Racer has to say.

[st.cronin]

I'm getting bad vibes from a LOT of players. I'm worried about RA, AE, Telle, Neon... DT, AC, Racer... Render...

Some of the bad vibes are probably a result of some players with individual win conditions. I'm not really sure what to do.

[Neon_Chaos]

I'm getting bad vibes from a LOT of players. I'm worried about RA, AE, Telle, Neon... DT, AC, Racer... Render...

Some of the bad vibes are probably a result of some players with individual win conditions. I'm not really sure what to do.

I'm actually getting a bad vibe from you, st.cronin. There's something about you that just seems off.

[hoopsguy]

OK, I didn't get to do anything with my "night" action since I was kidnapped. However, I'm hoping that some people have been able to do something of use with their actions over the last two days. I didn't hear anything today that indicated people were acting with info obtained during "Night 1" when making their decisions today, but I'll hold off on votes until more people have checked in.

Cronin, for what it is worth I'm of the same mind you are in terms of distrusting many.

[Neon_Chaos]

After reading back a bit for the entire day, I am quite fairly comfortable that RendeR and DT are good guys.

[hoopsguy]

After reading back a bit for the entire day, I am fairly comfortable that people are passing a codeword/phrase in the thread. Consider it compromised and do not extend any further trust for using this. I expect that the person/people using it will know what I mean and hopefully follow my advice. When I'm a bad guy I love compromising this kind of thing. Since I'm not, I'm trying to help you avoid that situation.

[Poli]

Off to bed. Not sure what tomorrow holds for me as far as work goes. I do have to pick up my tuxedo at some point. That's about a 40 minute drive to and then from.

[Neon_Chaos]

I can probably elaborate on my reasons for placing DT and RendeR in my CoT.

DaddyTorgo put in 4 action points on path12, unannounced... which was primarily the reason why path12 got voted off. There is no way in hell that a Titan would do that deliberately on Day 1.

Render was actually lobbying to Telle to vote with us on path12 near the voting deadline. He was asking, why Barkeep, why not path12? You don't lobby to get one of your own killed, it's as simple as that.

[st.cronin]

After reading back a bit for the entire day, I am fairly comfortable that people are passing a codeword/phrase in the thread. Consider it compromised and do not extend any further trust for using this. I expect that the person/people using it will know what I mean and hopefully follow my advice. When I'm a bad guy I love compromising this kind of thing. Since I'm not, I'm trying to help you avoid that situation.

I have definitively NOT been using a codeword.

I believe that Lathum is the bodyguard. There are no other reveals that I am willing to extend any trust on.

[Lathum]

how do we know DT put 4 votes on Path12?

[st.cronin]

DaddyTorgo put in 4 action points on path12, unannounced...

So he says.

[hoopsguy]

DaddyTorgo put in 4 action points on path12, unannounced... which was primarily the reason why path12 got voted off. There is no way in hell that a Titan would do that deliberately on Day 1.

I guess I don't unconditionally accept that DaddyTorgo spent the points on the vote that he says he spent. I read his explanation for why he did it and it didn't make sense to me at all.

If there is a soothsayer in the game the first thing I would have them review is Lathum's statement that he is the bodyguard. This is the second - because I don't see why DT would have spent those points but I do see why someone would want us to believe they played a big role in getting King Titan.

[hoopsguy]

LOL, three of us at same time chime in to tear down a trust list.

FWIW, I'm more inclined to believe the logic behind RendeR.

[st.cronin]

The voting mechanism in this game has me a little freaked out, I don't feel ready to accept any normal vote analysis.

[Neon_Chaos]

So he says.

How else could path12 have been eliminated? I only put 1. And unless RendeR says he put more than 1, it's more than likely true.

Since we're on the topic, how many points did you put on me on day 1, st.cronin?

[hoopsguy]

Neon, I'm guessing that Barkeep had some kind of Zeus powers to either avoid a lynch or throw down a pile of votes beyond what the rest of us bring to the table. It would explain why he didn't understand the "5 vs 4" votes, as well as his (relative) confidence near the deadline when he was trailing Path.

If he got eight votes instead of four, then he doesn't need four from DT.

I don't have the answer, but I'm much less trusting of DT's statements than you are right now.

[st.cronin]

How else could path12 have been eliminated? I only put 1. And unless RendeR says he put more than 1, it's more than likely true.

Since we're on the topic, how many points did you put on me on day 1, st.cronin?

I only put 1. I used 4 points on an action. I did the same today, on a different person.

My action has not been seen in the game thread. The people I performed the actions on were not harmed, and I believe they know me to be an Olympian.

[Neon_Chaos]

I wouldn't assume as to what Barkeep's powers were or were not. I will work on the tangibles, right now.

Votes on day 1.

Barkeep - Ntndeacon (159), lathum (210), Chief Rum (261), Arlington (277), passacaglia (324), path (352), telle (376)
neon chaos - purduebrad (135), Ardent Enthusiast (316), St.cronin (370), hoopsguy (375)
Path - Barkeep (315), render (324), daddytorgo (328), neon chaos (330)
anxiety - anxiety (132), Raiders Army (140), schmidty (201)
Hoopsguy - racer (208)

BK's votes:
There's 7 votes on BK. Noone says they put in any more points on that vote.

path12's votes:
barkeep says he maxed out. that's 4
I put in 1, and i'm assuming render put in 1.
Let's say the wolves assume that DT puts in only 1 point.
That's 7.

Neon votes:
I have 4 votes on me. PurdueBrad, AE, st.cronin, and hoops.
Purdue says he put in 3 points.
Hoops says he only put in 1.
That leaves cronin and AE. Let's say they put in one a piece, that's a total of 6.

There's no way path12 would have died if daddyt or render didn't put in points.

Ah... but DT says he put in 4 points....something the wolves don't expect. A total of 10 on path12. Bye bye Cronus.

[DaddyTorgo]

I put 4pts in on path, just like I said I did. You all can believe I did or didn't. Put 1 point into my vote on ntn tonight because I needed the other 4 for my action.

[Neon_Chaos]

Render, how many points did you put on path?

[RendeR]

Render, how many points did you put on path?

I've used 2 points each night on my votes.

The other three have been used in my ability and probably will be again today.

[Chief Rum]

Lathum, I'm assuming that you're protecting yourself tonight?

Neon, why would you even ask him this? Get the stone outta yer head! I would as much let the wolves try to figure out what he's going to do.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, little surprised no one has commented on the appearance of King Triton. What the heck was that about? Is that what killed Zeus? Or is that a power of Poseidon? If it is Poseidon's power, I would assume it didn't kill Zeus. So what did it do?

[Neon_Chaos]

Neon, why would you even ask him this? Get the stone outta yer head! I would as much let the wolves try to figure out what he's going to do.

Maybe I want to stir things up for the wolves? Lathum did freely divulge that he protected Anxiety last night.

[Chief Rum]

Maybe I want to stir things up for the wolves? Lathum did freely divulge that he protected Anxiety last night.

If he did. It might be misinformation (actually, I hope it is). I have no idea. Point is, there is really no value in bringing it up. Let the wolves wonder.

[Chief Rum]

Unfortunately, today's vote defies analysis, since the leading vote getter was indeed lynched. We have no way of telling if it was close or not. So no helpful analysis from me today. :(

I will be gone in the day time as usual, but I will be back a couple hours before deadline to place a vote.

[PurdueBrad]

Hey guys, I'm all caught up but am out until 4:30 pm CST with a work conference. I'll be on from then until after lynch so I'll have time to dig in then.

[ArlingtonColt]

Well I'm finally back in the thread after "date night" and just passing out when I got home. Anyways yesterday was pretty terrible for us. I am really not sure if I'm making the right play with my power, but hopefully soon you will see something from me that will put me in the CoT. I put my vote on Lathum yesterday, because when I left he was the only one with any other than myself and I had to try there. I will be around all day today so I can make a more informed vote (unless I'm forced to self preserve). ATM I'm leaning strongly towards Telle. Both of her votes have come at the end of the voting cycle and to the leading vote getter. It just screams "tagalong" wolf to me.

[Passacaglia]

I used my power the 1st day on Pass. did not trust him. I was wrong obviously.

thanks dude

[Poli]

I thought it was fairly obvious that Lathum protected himself on the first night since he asked for protection last night.

There's been a lot of weird play, and by weird I mean WEIRD play in this game. Partial reveals (with no contesting), sometimes when they're not needed, code words(seriously?), just weird stuff.

I'm wondering if we can trust any of these reveals, honestly.

[Telle]

I'm out for the night and possibly until right before lynch tomorrow. I am not sure Telle is a Titan, but something just isn't right about her.

Got anything you can elaborate on that with?

And yeah there's definitely something not right about me, but it is nothing game-related. Just dealing with some personal shit that's making putting much of any effort into this game rather difficult for me, as my energies are elsewhere. I'm going to try and be more involved today.

[DaddyTorgo]

Got anything you can elaborate on that with?

And yeah there's definitely something not right about me, but it is nothing game-related. Just dealing with some personal shit that's making putting much of any effort into this game rather difficult for me, as my energies are elsewhere. I'm going to try and be more involved today.

we all understand personal-shit telle. hope everything's alright and it sorts itself out.

[Poli]

Lathum, DT, I see you guys are up. What's your take on last night? I'm not talking about the baseball game either. ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

nice analysis again by CR.

[DaddyTorgo]

Lathum, DT, I see you guys are up. What's your take on last night? I'm not talking about the baseball game either. ;)


my take: beckett is fucking nasty!!!

oh wait: upset to see BK lynched. don't know that there's much I could have done...he was just...too trusted by too many.

perhaps we can learn something from this though: be a little less...overtly public with our trust at times? at least early in the game when all the roles are still out there.

there are people right now that have elevated trust in my eyes, but i'm not going to name them and thus draw attention to them.

imo we may have fallen into the trap of revealing too much of our trust-lists too early.

as for triton: i think it's a fairly safe guess to say he wasn't responsible for killing zeus, but what effect his powers had I guess we'll have to wait and see.

lathum's play in guarding anxiety last night instead of BK has caught my attention. doesn't seem like the "smart-play" at all for the professed bodyguard.

however i would caution AGAINST the real bodyguard (if it's not lathum) coming out to counter-reveal at this point. We need you alive and hidden if you are still out there, a 1-1 trade with someone who may be a titan or a monster does not seem advisable at this point.

as for where to look today: too early to tell right now TBH.

[Poli]

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of the Triton appearance. I'm assuming we'll see him again, even if it is brief again.

Here's the thing with Lathum, though, that has me believing him more than AC or Anxiety...he was a lot more specific.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of the Triton appearance. I'm assuming we'll see him again, even if it is brief again.

Here's the thing with Lathum, though, that has me believing him more than AC or Anxiety...he was a lot more specific.

if that's true though...why did he make such a questionable judgement call on who to guard?

[Poli]

Well, I was wondering about that. I'm not sure how I would have handled it, either.

He had two role reveals on the table besides his own. Neither appear to be contested, so he's led to believe both are true (that's how I'd feel in his position). On one hand, those two would be known COTers, whether they trust you or not. If you trust them, you don't have concern protecting them. If one of them die, Lathum probably gets grief for not protecting someone who revealed their role.

On the other hand, which I can also see, neither are our most important Olympians. You have to try and protect them. I'd much rather be without Anxiety or AC (no offense) than losing BK/Zeus.

If you're Lathum and you're the bodyguard, you can't win.

[DaddyTorgo]

although BK didn't reveal before death (IIRC, I wasn't around), so Lathum had no idea to protect him.

Interesting point. Just seems to me..."Barkeep=high attention player, on a lot of trust lists, strong villager" and I'd want to protect him. But I'm far from the best BG in the game, so what do I know really.

[hoopsguy]

The kills have been interesting - yesterday was what I considered the likely target. But why Passacaglia on Night 1?

They had a "revealed Olympian" in Anxiety to grab that evening if they wanted - but they chose not to make what seemed like a straight-forward play.

So did Pass give them a reason to believe that he was one of the three big guys on that night?

It seems like they took a shot at one of the three Olympian roles on Night 1 instead of taking the "sure thing". But on Night 2 they took the guy who was most trusted and hit one of the three Olympian roles as an added bonus. Again passing on two "revealed Olympians" and the "bodyguard" in the process.

[ArlingtonColt]

Maybe they are trying to hit the convert? Especially with abilities I could see where this would make some sense. Or they don't think our revealed roles are worth anything and aren't working about a CoT building if they can eliminate all the "strong" roles first.

[Poli]

It's confusing. I'm trying to think out of the box with this. I wonder about a couple of things. How sincere the role reveals have been? If they were sincere, did they just lead to the Titans gambling on picking off someone else? That might explain Pass and BK.

[hoopsguy]

Arlington, can your reveal demonstrate value to us by this point in the game?

I'm not trying to pick on you, but you are in the thread right now to have the conversation. Anxiety has lived two days with a public reveal that puts him in line for a person to eliminate to get the 1:1 ratio. You have lived for one day with a public reveal that puts you in line for a person to eliminate to get the 1:1 ratio. Lathum has lived for one day with a public reveal that he is the bodyguard.

I'm pretty skeptical that all three of you are on my team (Olympians). So I'm hoping that you and Anxiety can give us more to work with today, given that you have both had two nights to use your powers for our benefit already.

[hoopsguy]

Titans: You will win the game if you eliminate Zeus, Hades, Poseidon from the game as well as have a 1:1 Titan to Olympian ratio. Note: this does include Titans that are sympathetic to the Olympians cause as a Titan in this ratio.

They need both the 1:1 ratio and three specific players off the board.

On night one they opted not to take an Olympian off the board. Why?

On night two they opted not to take either of two Olympians or the bodyguard off the board. Why? This night makes more sense to me than the first if they felt BK was too trusted and too dangerous a player to leave in that position. But if BK was a human they would have been in a bad spot in terms of victory conditions.

[hoopsguy]

Also, we are down three Olympians and one Titan so far. No humans, monsters, or "good Titans" (if such a thing is in the game) off the board.

I'm guessing we are OK from a ratio perspective, but I'm hoping that one of the night kills comes up as non-Olympian at some point.

[Neon_Chaos]

Racer, you've been on and off the thread. You haven't answered hoopsguy's question.

[Poli]

Hoops asked racer a question? I thought he asked AC.

[hoopsguy]

I've asked questions of lots of people. The question to Racer was asking him to describe how NTN's power worked against him.

[Neon_Chaos]

Racer, can you give us a heads-up on how NTN's power worked since he put his action towards you?

Here's the specific question. I think Racer shedding some light into the matter would be good.

[Poli]

Oh shoot. I remember that now. Yeah, I'd like to know more about that.

[Neon_Chaos]

Back from the Minotaur's lair - I was kidnapped and placed there. Based on how I read the PM, I don't believe that the Minotaur is a player in the game but instead is a power someone has to remove a person from the game.

With two people removed on Day 1, I have a sneaking suspicion that one was a good guy using a power. But neither Medusa nor a Minotaur sound all that benevolent ...

Hoops, regarding the first part of this post, are you saying that the Minotaur isn't a role? Since Medusa is also classified under the same category as the Minotaur, would you think that Medusa is also not a role, but a usable power?

AlanT's PM didn't give me very much to work on, and I was basically informed that I was petrified for the entire day yesterday, unable to vote and/or use my actions.

[Neon_Chaos]

Well I'm finally back in the thread after "date night" and just passing out when I got home. Anyways yesterday was pretty terrible for us. I am really not sure if I'm making the right play with my power, but hopefully soon you will see something from me that will put me in the CoT. I put my vote on Lathum yesterday, because when I left he was the only one with any other than myself and I had to try there. I will be around all day today so I can make a more informed vote (unless I'm forced to self preserve). ATM I'm leaning strongly towards Telle. Both of her votes have come at the end of the voting cycle and to the leading vote getter. It just screams "tagalong" wolf to me.

Arlington, do you have any idea when or how we're goig to see this power of your that will put you in the CoT?

[Racer]

Racer, can you give us a heads-up on how NTN's power worked since he put his action towards you?

I never got a pm about it. I'm guessing he wasn't able to use his power on me because he was lynched before he could do it.

[Poli]

I think we have both monsters in the game. I don't think they are powers. Alan listed them in the roles section...so I think we have two or more (Kraken? Though it would seem unbalanced to have three flippin monsters, shoot two is enough) of them here.

Who knows what they're trying to do.

My first thought was Neon went to check up on someone and it turned out to be Medusa.

[Neon_Chaos]

I would have revealed my role on Day 2, had I not been petrified. At this point, I am just uncomfortable with the way role reveals have happened.

As it is, people are revealing roles without thought as to the consequences of their reveals.

For one, you're only helping the Titans. You're cutting down the field of players that the Titans can go select their night kills off of, and pick one of the big three from. As it is, they've already hit Zeus. By Anxiety, Lathum, and AC revealing their roles, they basically trimmed down potential targets for the Titans.

If you're going to do a role-reveal, might as well come clean with it. Anxiety and AC's "I have an ability, but I won't say what it is" is just too vague.

At some point, people will have to be willing to go down with their roles, if only to protect the remaining two of the big three and help the village for the better good, and not think about saving their own ass.

[Poli]

I never got a pm about it. I'm guessing he wasn't able to use his power on me because he was lynched before he could do it.
I don't think so. NTN said he used it on you.

[Poli]

I would have revealed my role on Day 2, had I not been petrified. At this point, I am just uncomfortable with the way role reveals have happened.

As it is, people are revealing roles without thought as to the consequences of their reveals.

For one, you're only helping the Titans. You're cutting down the field of players that the Titans can go select their night kills off of, and pick one of the big three from. As it is, they've already hit Zeus. By Anxiety, Lathum, and AC revealing their roles, they basically trimmed down potential targets for the Titans.

If you're going to do a role-reveal, might as well come clean with it. Anxiety and AC's "I have an ability, but I won't say what it is" is just too vague.

At some point, people will have to be willing to go down with their roles, if only to protect the remaining two of the big three and help the village for the better good, and not think about saving their own ass.

Agreed. This party is sucking.

[Alan T]

Just a quick game note. I'll be out between 4pm EST until close to deadline (or even a few minutes after deadline) tonight. If anyone has any questions or time sensitive actions, try to get them in before 4 EST. Anything i receive while I am away will still be valid retroactive to when I received it as long as it is before deadline (which is still the same time even if I am not back yet.)

[Poli]

That reminds me, I have to file a police report (wife lost a 500 dollar digital camera) at the same town I'm going to pick up the tuxedo in. I'll probably be leaving in 2 hours or so. I'll be back sometime in the afternoon, just not sure when.

[Poli]

(lost = stolen)

[Racer]

#756

I used my power the 1st day on Pass. did not trust him. I was wrong obviously.

#757

today used it on Racer...

I don't think so. NTN said he used it on you.

He said he used his day one AP points on Pass and his day two AP points on me so he must have been lynched before he could use his power on me.

[Poli]

Heh. My bad.

[Neon_Chaos]

Telle, can you explain your train of thought when you placed what was supposed to be the "nail in the coffin" vote for Barkeep on Day 1? I think it's something that Barkeep asked you yesterday, and failed to answer.

[Neon_Chaos]

He said he used his day one AP points on Pass and his day two AP points on me so he must have been lynched before he could use his power on me.

Ah alright. I see your point. So, Racer, do you have any ideas forming right now as to who you have feelings of trust and those who you doubt?

[Neon_Chaos]

Also, has anyone got any opinions on Schmidty? He's been pretty UTR for the past 2 days. Is he supposed to be busy?

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry, was called into a mtg for an hour. i'm curious about anxiety's and AC's powers and if they have anything they can share of value.

Of course if you're one of the Big 2 I guess that puts you guys in an uncomfortable spot

[RendeR]

Hrm, this is a problem. I tried to use my ability again today and it turns out that for some rason (not explained to me) it did not succeed.

Color me perplexed.

[Poli]

Until I saw him in the thread earlier, I had just about forgot he was involved. Without looking back, I can't remember him posting other than his lynch votes.

[Poli]

In fact, for now:

VOTE SCHMIDTY

I don't want another flippin role reveal. I just want to hear more from you.

[Telle]

Ok, I'm FINALLY caught up with the past couple of days of posting.. and my spreadsheet is now up to date too. Hopefully I can keep up from this point forward.

[Poli]

1) Render
2) Barkeep - Killed Day 2 Zeus / Olympian
3) Chief Rum
4) PurdueBrad
5) St.Cronin
6) Neon_Chaos
7) Lathum
8) ntndeacon - Lynched Day 2 Dionysus / Olympian
9) ArlingtonColt
10) Passacaglia - Killed Day 1 Athena / Olympian
11) Telle
12) Hoopsguy
13) Path12 - Lynched Day 1 Cronus / Titan
14) Anxiety
15) Ardent_Enthusiast Schmidty
16) Racer
17) DaddyTorgo
18) Raiders Army
19) Schmidty

Schmidty- AE (1AP)

By the way, this is a 1 AP vote for now. I'll try and track the AP as well as order this time.

If the bold part bothers Alan or anyone, let me know, I can just italicize it.

[ArlingtonColt]

Look... I understand the skepticism, but if I reveal an awesome ability don't you think that they will murder me in the night? Maybe my ability is some kind of powerup? Maybe it's a dud... I'm not really sure to be honest.

I was just hoping my reveal would land us another Titan on day 2 not let them have Zeus. If you feel like my power may be worthless then lynch me and kill a villager while you let the titans kill another villager and really be up shit's creek.

[Telle]

Telle, can you explain your train of thought when you placed what was supposed to be the "nail in the coffin" vote for Barkeep on Day 1? I think it's something that Barkeep asked you yesterday, and failed to answer.

Well Anxiety had revealed and so I wanted to get my vote off of him. The way RendeR was so fervently leading the charge against path seemed a little suspicious to me so I didn't want to go there. And so I picked Barkeep.

[Racer]

Ah alright. I see your point. So, Racer, do you have any ideas forming right now as to who you have feelings of trust and those who you doubt?

Well I think it’s unlikely Render, Daddy T, or you would vote against a fellow Titan on day one. As far as who not to trust, right now I’m still going off the people from Chief Rum’s analysis. In the only other game I’ve played I thought he did a great job of narrowing down the possible list of wolves.

[Poli]

That's an interesting...post.

[Poli]

Interesting post comment for arlington. I should have quoted.

[RendeR]

Well Anxiety had revealed and so I wanted to get my vote off of him. The way RendeR was so fervently leading the charge against path seemed a little suspicious to me so I didn't want to go there. And so I picked Barkeep.

Actually, the path vote was spearheaded by BK, i just came long for the fun.

[ArlingtonColt]

Interesting indeed.

[Telle]

Well I think it’s unlikely Render, Daddy T, or you would vote against a fellow Titan on day one. As far as who not to trust, right now I’m still going off the people from Chief Rum’s analysis. In the only other game I’ve played I thought he did a great job of narrowing down the possible list of wolves.

Actually.. it's a decent wolf tactic to hide your vote on another wolf. If Neon where a Titan, he probably would have felt safe keeping his vote on path because he didn't know that RendeR and DT would power-up their votes. Assuming that both barkeep and path would have maxed out their votes in interest of self-preservation (which would be a fair assumption to make), it would have been 10-7 barkeep.

[Neon_Chaos]

Look... I understand the skepticism, but if I reveal an awesome ability don't you think that they will murder me in the night? Maybe my ability is some kind of powerup? Maybe it's a dud... I'm not really sure to be honest.

I was just hoping my reveal would land us another Titan on day 2 not let them have Zeus. If you feel like my power may be worthless then lynch me and kill a villager while you let the titans kill another villager and really be up shit's creek.

But by basically revealing, you have compromised the remaining two of the big three.

Bit the bullet, and take one for the team. Why are you so concerned about dying, when you're not one of the big three, and you've practically outed yourself as an Olympian? You're not their priority, and I doubt you'd become their priority even after revealing whatever powers you have.

[ArlingtonColt]

haha I thought you were talking about racers.. oops

What was so interesting about mine?

[Telle]

Actually, the path vote was spearheaded by BK, i just came long for the fun.

I was reading fast.. but there was definitely a feeling of "Come on everybody, let's lynch path! Who's with me?!?" And that was actually a great thing in the end, but at the time it was enough for me to not want to jump onto that train.

[ArlingtonColt]

Well it should also narrow down who might be a titan? Why give up villagers "for the sake of the village" when I look at it as a chance to take down a titan? I guess I'm too much of an optimist.

[Telle]

And why the big push for the revealers to reveal their powers? EVERYBODY has an action, so what would it prove?

[Neon_Chaos]

Actually.. it's a decent wolf tactic to hide your vote on another wolf. If Neon where a Titan, he probably would have felt safe keeping his vote on path because he didn't know that RendeR and DT would power-up their votes. Assuming that both barkeep and path would have maxed out their votes in interest of self-preservation (which would be a fair assumption to make), it would have been 10-7 barkeep.

Very true, Telle. Which is why I have never given myself the free pass. I've always deferred to DT and Render. You can scrutinize my actions and all my posts, in fact, I even welcome it, just so we can have active discussion.

Come to think of it, I am further in belief that DT and Render are good guys.

If path had maxed his points, yes, the count would have been 10-7 against Barkeep. The only way path would have died is if path received more than 10. Barkeep put in 4 points, Render says he put it 2, DT says he put in 4, and I put in one. 11 points. Enought to beat Cronus.

[Poli]

Arlington, I understand waht you're trying to say...it's just it sounds a tad too desperate for me.

[ArlingtonColt]

I was just trying to save the village from a lynch. Lynch me if you want if you think it will better your cause.

[Neon_Chaos]

And why the big push for the revealers to reveal their powers? EVERYBODY has an action, so what would it prove?

If they have powers that can at least make the Titans turn their heads from searching for the remaining Big Two, then I would want them to say what their powers are and scare the Titans into trying to kill them rather than the big 2 remaining.

[Neon_Chaos]

I was just trying to save the village from a lynch. Lynch me if you want if you think it will better your cause.

That's such a cop out response.

Just remember that you're selling short on the village by trying to save your own skin.

[Telle]

And did anybody else notice that after Day 1 we had two (assumed) monster actions, and none after Day 2?

And any thoughts as to whose side the monsters or controllers of the monsters (depending on interpretation) they might be on? Or perhaps they have their own victory conditions?

[Neon_Chaos]

I was reading fast.. but there was definitely a feeling of "Come on everybody, let's lynch path! Who's with me?!?" And that was actually a great thing in the end, but at the time it was enough for me to not want to jump onto that train.

Basically you resigned yourself on day 1 to vote off a player who started a solid discussion about role reveals, rather than voting for a guy who was silent for the entire day and didn't contribute much.

It was actually funny how path12 "mysteriously" showed up at the moment when the votes were piling up on him.

[Telle]

Basically you resigned yourself on day 1 to vote off a player who started a solid discussion about role reveals, rather than voting for a guy who was silent for the entire day and didn't contribute much.

It was actually funny how path12 "mysteriously" showed up at the moment when the votes were piling up on him.

They were the two front-runners at the time (the votes against you didn't start piling up until after). I didn't feel good about the path votes, and didn't want to make a throw-away vote. Obviously in retrospect I made the wrong choice, but so did five other people.

[hoopsguy]

Arlington, my thoughts on asking for some kind of confirmation of your role is that you are already out in the open as an Olympian. The Titans have a reason to come after you - they want the 1:1 ratio.

Now in terms of using your power/powers, I'm hoping that they might demonstrate a reason for us to trust your reveal so we make a good decision today.

Do you believe that you, Anxiety, and Lathum are all who you have said you are and all on the side of the Olympians?

Talking about you specifically, I don't get why on Day 3 you would not understand your specific powers. Post #880 makes it sound like you don't know what they do, which I am guessing is a lie. Whether you are lying to protect yourself or to benefit the Olympians is what I'm trying to determine.

[DaddyTorgo]

my day has ended up a lot crazier than i would have liked. i will for sure be home and active before lynch (caveat: game 2 of the WS and BC vs. VT football games tonight)

Very perplexed by AC. In fact I'm very perplexed by the lack of significant info that anybody has from night actions...lathum won't tell us about his visitor...AC won't tell us or doesn't know what his powers did...schmidty has been AWOL...

for now

VOTE SCHMIDTY

[Neon_Chaos]

I see that Anxiety's here. Anxiety, how did your powers go last night? You mentioned about not knowing about these powers before in any other game. Maybe you could provide insight?

[Neon_Chaos]

*not seeing, I meant, instead of not knowing.

[Telle]

I'm still trying to make sense out of Anxiety's play. He reveals as an Olympian and has disappeared.

Data points for me on Anxiety:
- no one countering his reveal is to his benefit
- however, Alan has said that there are safeguard against a mass reveal and there is a pretty extensive list of roles (more than 19) and a note that more roles may exist than listed
- Ares strikes me as an Olympian who may have their own victory conditions
- why isn't Anxiety sticking around to try and help us make the right decision if he felt strongly enough about it to reveal earlier?

Just trying to figure out the sequence of events. I've got the idea in my head that we just might have been on the verge of a good day one vote. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but would like to hear what others think (preferably quickly).

Just wanted to bring this to the forefront again.. especially in combination with Hoops's more recent post about how Anxiety's now managed to survive two nights and ArlingtonColt one. Plus did anyone notice that Anxiety never moved his vote off of himself? He revealed because he was concerned about getting lynched.. but wasn't concerned enough to not vote for himself??

[Abe Sargent]

They need both the 1:1 ratio and three specific players off the board.

On night one they opted not to take an Olympian off the board. Why?

On night two they opted not to take either of two Olympians or the bodyguard off the board. Why? This night makes more sense to me than the first if they felt BK was too trusted and too dangerous a player to leave in that position. But if BK was a human they would have been in a bad spot in terms of victory conditions.

Hoops, if there is one obvious target, you know as well as I do that there is a likely guard. I wouldn;t have targeted a Day One villager reveal as a wolf either, that's bad math.

[hoopsguy]

Day 1 vote - we now know that at the end we had a runoff between Zeus and Cronus. Assume that the Titan's didn't realize that BK was Zeus (high likelihood), but knew he was not a Titan. Would Path have been the only person putting a vote here?

Barkeep voters:
NTN - dead Olympian
Lathum - "revealed hero"
Chief Rum
Arlington Colt - "revealed Olympian"
Pass - dead Olympian
Path - dead Titan
Telle

If you reach the assumption that another Titan would have joined in this vote, which is more likely in a game with fuzzy voting analysis, then we only have four people to look at, two of who have revealed and two who have not. I think I'm going to focus here, rather than on Schmidty or other guys who have just been quiet.

[Poli]

Didn't think about that.

Gotta go, need lunch then to those errand type things.

[Telle]

Ok hoops.. since I'm one of those four.. anything you want to hear from me? I think the general consensus is that further reveals aren't in the best interest of the village, so I don't want to go there.

[Abe Sargent]

But by basically revealing, you have compromised the remaining two of the big three.

Bit the bullet, and take one for the team. Why are you so concerned about dying, when you're not one of the big three, and you've practically outed yourself as an Olympian? You're not their priority, and I doubt you'd become their priority even after revealing whatever powers you have.

N_C you don;t know what his powers are. What isf you are pushing eh seer hard? What about teh soothwsayer? What about a Duke? What about something really cool that isn;t nomrl astandard but could help us out? Why do you need to know his specific ability at this point in time - what benefit is it to you? You aren't Blade with an excel spreadsheet and everybody's names that you fill in as you get info on people are you?

If someone rr's as a major god, one that would be in the game, and no one contravenes, you can be fairly confident that they are who they say thay are. That's what matters now.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, if there is one obvious target, you know as well as I do that there is a likely guard. I wouldn;t have targeted a Day One villager reveal as a wolf either, that's bad math.

I would agree with this more if the wolves had not gone after the person I considered the "obvious" target on Night 2. Even though BK had not revealed, so many people were trusting him for his narrow escape from the showdown against the Titan that it had to be a concern.

So the wolves went with a non-obvious target on Night 1, and an obvious target on Night 2, based on my perceptions. Obviously other people may have different reads. But that change in approach is what concerns me, to some extent, with your continued survival. It is also why I would love to see some kind of manifestation of "goodness" in terms of actions or data from one of the people who have revealed as Olympians or heroes.

[Abe Sargent]

I see that Anxiety's here. Anxiety, how did your powers go last night? You mentioned about not knowing about these powers before in any other game. Maybe you could provide insight?

Yesterday I used my power on hoopsguy to see if I could track him down. They did not work therefore.

[Telle]

N_C you don;t know what his powers are. What isf you are pushing eh seer hard? What about teh soothwsayer? What about a Duke? What about something really cool that isn;t nomrl astandard but could help us out? Why do you need to know his specific ability at this point in time - what benefit is it to you? You aren't Blade with an excel spreadsheet and everybody's names that you fill in as you get info on people are you?

If someone rr's as a major god, one that would be in the game, and no one contravenes, you can be fairly confident that they are who they say thay are. That's what matters now.

Actually I think most of us are of the opinion that revealing as a major god doesn't really buy you much of anything (you plural - not you personally). Given the numbers, there are a lot of unused roles.. and there's a high likelihood that the Titans know which are used and which are not (going on people's interpretation of Alan stating that there is a balancing mechanism in the game against mass reveals).

[Abe Sargent]

Just wanted to bring this to the forefront again.. especially in combination with Hoops's more recent post about how Anxiety's now managed to survive two nights and ArlingtonColt one. Plus did anyone notice that Anxiety never moved his vote off of himself? He revealed because he was concerned about getting lynched.. but wasn't concerned enough to not vote for himself??

I fel bound to the dice, and I was gone for the last hour or so to see the major moves.

[hoopsguy]

Ok hoops.. since I'm one of those four.. anything you want to hear from me? I think the general consensus is that further reveals aren't in the best interest of the village, so I don't want to go there.

Telle, I'm honestly not sure what I would ask you that hasn't been asked already. Clearly, you voted for the wrong person on Day 1. Not a capital offense, but the timing of your vote was especially bad in light of what we now know as it seemed to slam the door shut on BK. I'm going to pull up a vote history from Day 1 to look at this a little closer.

If I decide that I trust the people who have revealed, then I'm probably going to end up voting for either you or Chief. If you have something that you feel should be brought to the table to help us make a better vote then do it. But there isn't much of a posting history for me to look at with you over the first two days.

[Abe Sargent]

Actually I think most of us are of the opinion that revealing as a major god doesn't really buy you much of anything (you plural - not you personally). Given the numbers, there are a lot of unused roles.. and there's a high likelihood that the Titans know which are used and which are not (going on people's interpretation of Alan stating that there is a balancing mechanism in the game against mass reveals).

That's why I said a major god. Sure, there are a lot of gods going unused, but there are some powerful and interesting enough that you can reasoably assume they are in teh game (such as Ares, for example).

That's all you need right now. Again, I think you guys should stop pushing AC. Push too hard and you may make a great ally reveal something he should have kept private that we could have really used.

[Telle]

I fel bound to the dice, and I was gone for the last hour or so to see the major moves.

Forgive me if I find this less than compelling. Feeling "bound to the dice" is enough of a reason to start out a vote on yourself on Day 1.. but not to keep it there and do a reveal to convince others to move off of you even though you won't move off of yourself. I thought MAYBE you had "Duke" powers and that's why.. but you've stated that your powers are odd and nothing you've ever seen in WW before. So beyond that, it at the very least does not seem like a village-friendly move since a villager should not be voting for a known villager and should not be revealing himself to the wolves unless necessary.

[Telle]

That's why I said a major god. Sure, there are a lot of gods going unused, but there are some powerful and interesting enough that you can reasoably assume they are in teh game (such as Ares, for example).

I actually pretty much assumed that only the Big Three were necessarily in the game and the rest were attributed randomly.

[Abe Sargent]

Forgive me if I find this less than compelling. Feeling "bound to the dice" is enough of a reason to start out a vote on yourself on Day 1.. but not to keep it there and do a reveal to convince others to move off of you even though you won't move off of yourself. I thought MAYBE you had "Duke" powers and that's why.. but you've stated that your powers are odd and nothing you've ever seen in WW before. So beyond that, it at the very least does not seem like a village-friendly move since a villager should not be voting for a known villager and should not be revealing himself to the wolves unless necessary.

Having five or six voters on me an hour before deadline is not "necessary" to your way of thinking?

[Telle]

Having five or six voters on me an hour before deadline is not "necessary" to your way of thinking?

As others have stated, the votes were moving. And you could have easily decreased the votes by one yourself. That should have been the FIRST thing you did when you saw people were voting for you just because you voted for yourself.

[ArlingtonColt]

That's such a cop out response.

Just remember that you're selling short on the village by trying to save your own skin.

Well I am a cop... so i guess this fits.

[ArlingtonColt]

Im feeling good about a Lathum or Telle vote today. Lathum was the most vocal and came to the defense of path MULTIPLE times on the day 1 vote. He was the only person to defend him too.

[Abe Sargent]

As others have stated, the votes were moving. And you could have easily decreased the votes by one yourself. That should have been the FIRST thing you did when you saw people were voting for you just because you voted for yourself.

There was an ethicial question in play. I had agreed, n my mind, to vote for teh person who came up on the dice. That person was me. I could have lied and rerolled it, or decided I wasn;t bounc to it, but either would be unethical.

You are not going to argue ethics with the philosophy guy who specializes in ethics and is also an ordained minister, right? Can we accept that I thought it would be unethical and move on?

[Abe Sargent]

I am the absolute worst WW player at one thing. Signals. I can never tell when someone is dropping a signal into their post or anything. This is something I truly suck at.

[Abe Sargent]

Im feeling good about a Lathum or Telle vote today. Lathum was the most vocal and came to the defense of path MULTIPLE times on the day 1 vote. He was the only person to defend him too.

Lathum rr as a human who was an obvious inclusion (Heracles is the obvious choice for a human to be in the game) and as the bg and no one has controverted him. Doesn't that make him very likely to not be a Titan?

No way I'm voting Lathum unless I absolutely have to.

BTW - I would never defend massively a wolf under the gun on Day One as a wolf. Someone will seer you or lynch you. That's a risky play with little reward but much danger.

[Telle]

There was an ethicial question in play. I had agreed, n my mind, to vote for teh person who came up on the dice. That person was me. I could have lied and rerolled it, or decided I wasn;t bounc to it, but either would be unethical.

You are not going to argue ethics with the philosophy guy who specializes in ethics and is also an ordained minister, right? Can we accept that I thought it would be unethical and move on?

But you realize.. nobody saw you make that dice role.. nobody heard you make that agreement in your head. It very well could just be a distracting story and a way to hide your vote.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that it just seems odd to me and is something to look at. Most certainly not damning proof of any kind :)

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting point by hoops on looking at the voters for Zeus. should we similarily look at people who voted for Cronus but moved their vote elsewhere later (does anyone fall under this category?)

that to me would also be an interesting thing to look at

[Telle]

interesting point by hoops on looking at the voters for Zeus. should we similarily look at people who voted for Cronus but moved their vote elsewhere later (does anyone fall under this category?)

that to me would also be an interesting thing to look at

Looking through my notes, I'm not seeing anyone as voting for path and then moving off of him.

[hoopsguy]

Yesterday I used my power on hoopsguy to see if I could track him down. They did not work therefore.

What kind of information did you get on me?

[RendeR]

Lathum rr as a human who was an obvious inclusion (Heracles is the obvious choice for a human to be in the game) and as the bg and no one has controverted him. Doesn't that make him very likely to not be a Titan?

No way I'm voting Lathum unless I absolutely have to.

BTW - I would never defend massively a wolf under the gun on Day One as a wolf. Someone will seer you or lynch you. That's a risky play with little reward but much danger.


I'm going to echo this and ask that if anyone is really down to a lathum vs someone else vote please vote someone else.

His play and his reveal are both solidly showing him as an Olympian and one we should be keeping around. If in fact his reveal is false I'm sure it will come out before it actually causes a problem.

[DaddyTorgo]

Looking through my notes, I'm not seeing anyone as voting for path and then moving off of him.

thanks mrs. spreadsheet

[RendeR]

What kind of information did you get on me?


I'm assuming that he got nothing at all as you were imprisoned by the minataur yesterday. More than likely it kept yu hidden from any type of contact/access/tracking.

[hoopsguy]

Technically, Lathum's reveal shows him as a Human, not an Olympian :)

[RendeR]

thanks mrs. spreadsheet


Hey my name isn't Spreadsheet.

[hoopsguy]

thanks mrs. spreadsheet

Telle, do you have a vote/unvote list that you can publish? I'm having a fairly busy day at work, which is making it a little tougher to go post-digging.

[RendeR]

Technically, Lathum's reveal shows him as a Human, not an Olympian :)


True enough.

[Telle]

..vote history from Day 1..

Just in case anyone else is curious, here is everyone's voting throughout Day 1. Unvotes are noted when a new person was not immediately voted for.

Render - vote Telle (143), vote Racer (289), vote path (324)
Barkeep - vote hoopsguy (60), unvote hoopsguy (206), vote path (315)
Chief Rum - vote barkeep (261)
PurdueBrad - vote Neon_Chaos (135)
St.Cronin - vote barkeep (212), vote neon_chaos (370)
Neon_Chaos - vote daddytorgo (131), vote path (330)
Lathum - vote Hoopsguy (144), vote barkeep (210)
ntndeacon - vote barkeep (159)
ArlingtonColt - vote barkeep (277)
Passacaglia - vote Anxiety (136), vote barkeep (325)
Telle - vote Anxiety (178), (vote Barkeep (360) - forgot to unvote), vote barkeep (376)
Hoopsguy - vote lathum (219), vote neon_chaos (375)
Path12 - vote barkeep (352)
Anxiety - vote Anxiety (132)
Ardent_Enthusiast - vote Anxiety (147), vote neon_chaos (316)
Racer - vote hoopsguy (208)
DaddyTorgo - vote Neon_Chaos (127), vote path (328)
Raiders Army - vote Anxiety (140)
Schmidty - vote Anxiety (201)

[Telle]

Telle, do you have a vote/unvote list that you can publish? I'm having a fairly busy day at work, which is making it a little tougher to go post-digging.

Guess I read your mind :)

[Lathum]

Maybe they are trying to hit the convert?

I am still getting caught up but I just skimmed the rules and I didn'd see anything about there being a convert.

[st.cronin]

And did anybody else notice that after Day 1 we had two (assumed) monster actions, and none after Day 2?

And any thoughts as to whose side the monsters or controllers of the monsters (depending on interpretation) they might be on? Or perhaps they have their own victory conditions?

My guess was that Neon and Hoops actually each did the other one. Just a wild ass guess, but it would explain why neither event recurred day 2.

Also, hoops keeps saying everybody was trusting Barkeep and I don't think that's true. I didn't trust Barkeep, and I don't think Lathum did either.

[RendeR]

I am still getting caught up but I just skimmed the rules and I didn'd see anything about there being a convert.

I would assume that powers that strong are every other day type things, or perhaps even 1 time only shots.

Just guessing.

[RendeR]

My guess was that Neon and Hoops actually each did the other one. Just a wild ass guess, but it would explain why neither event recurred day 2.

Also, hoops keeps saying everybody was trusting Barkeep and I don't think that's true. I didn't trust Barkeep, and I don't think Lathum did either.


I don't think they taged one another. If you think about it I don't see how one could get the other with those specific abilities...once one was traped he couldn't get turned to stone? Or once one was stoned he couldn't kidnap another?

I don't think either of them are the monsters.

[RendeR]

And I think I was the only one that really trusted BK. Not sure about hte others, and I found it utterly fascinating that on day 1 I found myself trusting BK and defending hoops to some extent.

How tweaked is that ;)

[Telle]

And I think I was the only one that really trusted BK.

And yet people jump on me for not somehow inherently knowing that voting for BK would be a bad thing.

[RendeR]

And yet people jump on me for not somehow inherently knowing that voting for BK would be a bad thing.


But its fun jumping on you....err..wait, WHO ELSE IS JUMPING YOU????








;)

[st.cronin]

VOTE HOOPSGUY

I will likely be extremely busy today. I am only using 1 AP for my vote.

[Telle]

Pretty slow voting day thus far.. lots of names being tossed out though.

Telle - Raiders Army (786)
Schmidty - ardent enthusiast (877), DaddyTorgo (902)
Hoopsguy - st.cronin (946)

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, think it through. I had an opportunity, as did you, to put a late vote on Barkeep on Day 1. I didn't pull the trigger on it even though throughout the day I made a big deal out of the fact that BK was using extra votes.

That is one reason that I'm not looking very hard at you right now, for better or worse.

[hoopsguy]

Anxiety, have you used your power once or twice? If only once, then why not twice?

[RendeR]

Anyone seen Raiders Army recently?

[Racer]

My guess was that Neon and Hoops actually each did the other one. Just a wild ass guess, but it would explain why neither event recurred day 2.

Also, hoops keeps saying everybody was trusting Barkeep and I don't think that's true. I didn't trust Barkeep, and I don't think Lathum did either.

We should know for sure after tonight, right? I say this because I assume if they did that to each other, they each would target different players tonight.

[Telle]

Anyone seen Raiders Army recently?

He said he was going to be out for most of the day.

[st.cronin]

Hoops, I understand that, but as has been pointed out many times there are reasons to be skeptical of traditional vote analysis in this game.

[Racer]

Back from the Minotaur's lair - I was kidnapped and placed there. Based on how I read the PM, I don't believe that the Minotaur is a player in the game but instead is a power someone has to remove a person from the game.

With two people removed on Day 1, I have a sneaking suspicion that one was a good guy using a power. But neither Medusa nor a Minotaur sound all that benevolent ...

Okay, continuing up on my last post. I looked back on the first page Minotaur was listed as a possible player in this game. So could Neon Chaos and Hoopsguy be monsters then?

[Racer]

By the way, if Hoopsguy and Neon Chaos are monsters, does that mean that they are on the side of the Olympians?

[hoopsguy]

I'm not a monster, but I would say that no matter what side I'm on.

In fact, I've been suspicious of Neon Chaos most of the game but I think we are ignoring lessons to be learned in the Day 1 vote. I find it very hard to believe that Path was the only titan voting for Barkeep on Day 1. I think that is the best place to look for today's vote.

I'll return to other candidates like Neon, Racer, Schmidty, Arlington, and whoever other people want to discuss after we get a little more clarity on the Day 1 stuff. Or, obviously, if someone has information that helps identify a Titan.

[Racer]

I'm not a monster, but I would say that no matter what side I'm on.


Why?

[hoopsguy]

If I was a monster I wouldn't want to admit it.

Since I'm not a monster, I will tell you that I'm not because I don't want you to make a bad assumption/vote.

[hoopsguy]

OK, here is the vote recap from Day 1 in an order that is a little easier for me to work with than the one Telle posted earlier.


Post #60 - Barkeep votes Hoopsguy
Post #127 - DT votes Neon
Post #131 - Neon votes DT
Post #132 - Anxiety votes Anxiety
Post #135 - Purdue votes Neon
Post #136 - Pass votes Anxiety
Post #140 - Raiders votes Anxiety
Post #143 - RendeR votes Telle
Post #144 - Lathum votes Hoops
Post #147 - AE votes Anxiety
Post #159 - NTN votes Barkeep
Post #178 - Telle votes Anxiety
Post #201 - Schmidty votes Anxiety
Post #206 - Barkeep unvotes Hoops
Post #209 - Racer votes Hoops
Post #210 - Lathum unvotes Hoops, votes Barkeep
Post #212 - Cronin votes Barkeep
Post #213 - Anxiety drops "rarely warlike" hint
Post #219 - Hoops votes Lathum
Post #261 - Chief votes Barkeep
Post #277 - AC votes Barkeep
Post #287 - Anxiety reveals he is Ares
Post #289 - RendeR unvotes Telle, votes Racer
Post #315 - Barkeep vots Path
Post #316 - AE unvotes Anxiety, votes Neon
Post #324 - RendeR unvotes Racer, votes Path
Post #325 - Pass unvotes Anxiety, votes Barkeep
Post #328 - DT unvotes Neon, votes Path
Post #330 - Neon unvotes DT, votes Path
Post #352 - Path votes Barkeep
Post #360 - Telle votes Barkeep (not valid?)
Post #370 - Cronin unvotes Barkeep, votes Neon
Post #375 - Hoops unvotes Lathum, votes Neon
Post #376 - Telle unvotes Anxiety, votes Barkeep

[RendeR]

So lets look again at those voting for BK on day 1:

Chief Rum - vote barkeep (261) - Still an option, no evidence one way or the other on CR

Lathum - vote Hoopsguy (144), vote barkeep (210) - Revealed as BG, no denials by anyone else, arued solid points all day and kept hounding his position, a wolf isn't going to go after another wolf on day one. I'm willing to trust Lathum

ntndeacon - vote barkeep (159) - Dead, Dyonesis

ArlingtonColt - vote barkeep (277) - Revealed as Ares God of War, not verified, not denied by anyone else either.

Passacaglia - vote Anxiety (136), vote barkeep (325) - Dead, Athena

Telle - vote Anxiety (178), (vote Barkeep (360) - forgot to unvote), vote barkeep (376) - Nothing to go on here, she was around late, had to catch up and placed a vote. Viable choice.

Path12 - vote barkeep (352) - Lynched - Cronus, King titan.



So from this we have only 2 options if we want to ferret out another titan in this group. I believe there IS one here:(assuming we hold that AC is telling the truth and IS Ares)

Chief Rum
or
Telle

I like Rum's day 1 analysis and the way he's presented evidence. He hasn't tried to really defend himself so much as just put out good information, is that a wolf being a damned good wolf? maybe.

If I trust my gut and leave off CR for today then I have to vote telle. She's been catching up well and has put forth some good questions and commentary.

IF I had to choose between the two right now I would have to vote telle.

Discuss?

[RendeR]

By the way, if Hoopsguy and Neon Chaos are monsters, does that mean that they are on the side of the Olympians?

As I posted earlier, i don't think either of them is a monster. I have my theories as to at least one monster but I have no way to verify it at this time so I'll just keep my mouth shut about it.

[Telle]

OK, here is the vote recap from Day 1 in an order that is a little easier for me to work with than the one Telle posted earlier.

Well next time be more explicate about format! :)

I swear I need to find a way to use a database instead of a spreadsheet.. some quick ad-hoc queries and data is presented in any way I want! Yes, I'm a data-geek.. I admit it...

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, you are right where I'm at with my voting decision today.

[Telle]

I like Rum's day 1 analysis and the way he's presented evidence. He hasn't tried to really defend himself so much as just put out good information, is that a wolf being a damned good wolf? maybe.

Problem is, you can't go with Chief Rum putting out a lot of analysis as a good sign that he's a villager. I've seen him do this when a wolf and it made me put him on my likely-villager list then.. so I don't tend to trust him without something a lot bigger than that anymore :)

[RendeR]

Problem is, you can't go with Chief Rum putting out a lot of analysis as a good sign that he's a villager. I've seen him do this when a wolf and it made me put him on my likely-villager list then.. so I don't tend to trust him without something a lot bigger than that anymore :)

I agree completely, but coupling that with my gut instincts and I can't pull the trigger on CR yet, which leaves me voting for you and probably sleeping on the couch =(

[Telle]

I agree completely, but coupling that with my gut instincts and I can't pull the trigger on CR yet, which leaves me voting for you and probably sleeping on the couch =(

You know, you've been going by "gut instinct" a lot in this game.. and really directing the votes where you want them. Now you're obviously not a Titan.. but I can't help but wonder if you're one of those that has their own victory condition.

[RendeR]

I win as an Olympian, so of course I have my own victory conditions, ust like every non-titan-aoigned Olympian.

:)

[RendeR]

god I can't type.....

[hoopsguy]

I'm willing to wait to hear what Chief Rum has to say before casting a vote. But if there isn't a reason to go after the existing reveals (Lathum, Anxiety, or Arlington) then it is almost certainly going to be either Rum or Telle getting my vote tonight.

In the meantime, I'll keep asking questions as I think of them ...

[Telle]

I win as an Olympian, so of course I have my own victory conditions, ust like every non-titan-aoigned Olympian.

:)

Well you have a theory about who is a monster.. and mentioned that maybe monsters can only use their power every other night.. and claimed that your power didn't work last night...

And there's another human role unaccounted for.

[RendeR]

What about the other folks? If we have the day 1 voters for BK narrowed down to CR and Telle, lets dig into Day 2 voting and see what we can come up with there.

[Telle]

I'm willing to wait to hear what Chief Rum has to say before casting a vote. But if there isn't a reason to go after the existing reveals (Lathum, Anxiety, or Arlington) then it is almost certainly going to be either Rum or Telle getting my vote tonight.

In the meantime, I'll keep asking questions as I think of them ...

Well would it help if I revealed then? You all say we shouldn't do any more reveals, but then go and penalize those that don't reveal???

[RendeR]

Well you have a theory about who is a monster.. and mentioned that maybe monsters can only use their power every other night.. and claimed that your power didn't work last night...

And there's another human role unaccounted for.


No no, my ability failed TODAY. Not last night. It is not a night action sort of tihng. It worked fine the first two days. My problem is figuring out if its something to do with my power itself or the person I tried to use it on today that made it fail.


I have a hunch about Medusa. It caught my eye during day one, so perhaps someone else can catch it also and we can see if we come to the same conclusion.

[Telle]

I have a hunch about Medusa. It caught my eye during day one, so perhaps someone else can catch it also and we can see if we come to the same conclusion.

Don't suppose you can narrow it down to a page?? Day 1 is long :)

[hoopsguy]

Telle, I haven't argued one way or the other on reveals, although others certainly have. I've only said that I don't 100% trust the reveals so far as honorable Olympians. But on the three that are out there so far we haven't had anyone come out with a claim that they are false.

[Lathum]

OK, I just caught up.

ArlingtonColt is really pinging my radar right now.

Day 1 he votes Barkeep under the pretense of it being a random vote on day 1, but also buying into my theory.

I'm going with Lathum's theory here.. and its just a random day 1 vote for me... sorry

well which is it? random or following a theory? It can't be both.

Then he votes for me unprovoked and with no explination, after going along with me day 1

He then reveals for no reason at all, after claiming day 1 that reveals are a bad thing.


I'm going out to eat tonight with my g/f and I'm not sure if I'll be back before the deadline...

I am Hephaestus the God of smithing, an olympian.


He then brings up conversions when as far as I can tell they aren't listed in the rules.

Maybe they are trying to hit the convert? Especially with abilities I could see where this would make some sense. Or they don't think our revealed roles are worth anything and aren't working about a CoT building if they can eliminate all the "strong" roles first

He then claims to not know how to use his ability


Look... I understand the skepticism, but if I reveal an awesome ability don't you think that they will murder me in the night? Maybe my ability is some kind of powerup? Maybe it's a dud... I'm not really sure to be honest.


He then claims to feel good about a vote for me today, ummm, ok, but I am pretty sure there are better candidates.

Im feeling good about a Lathum or Telle vote today. Lathum was the most vocal and came to the defense of path MULTIPLE times on the day 1 vote. He was the only person to defend him too.

He also references Telle several times, I am wondering if they are trying some titan vs. titan play.

[Lathum]

VOTE ARLINGTONCOLT

this will only be a 1 AP vote.

[Telle]

Telle, I haven't argued one way or the other on reveals, although others certainly have. I've only said that I don't 100% trust the reveals so far as honorable Olympians. But on the three that are out there so far we haven't had anyone come out with a claim that they are false.

So in your mind, if I now revealed and nobody contested it then that moves me into the same category as ArlingtonColt and Lathum as people who voted for BK and have revealed?

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, do you see any harm in saying who you used your power on that failed? That certainly could be noteworthy, particularly if you had used your day-time power already on an Olympian who has already passed away (BK, NTN, Pass).

[hoopsguy]

So in your mind, if I now revealed and nobody contested it then that moves me into the same category as ArlingtonColt and Lathum as people who voted for BK and have revealed?

Telle, I would tell you that if you are an Olympian, or aligned with our cause, to take the action that you think is best for us as a group. Often that means doing something that is good personally, like keeping yourself from being lynched.

I know I fight like crazy to avoid being lynched as a "villager" and I would not condemn someone for doing the same.

As far as how I would view it, I would trust it a whole heck of a lot more if there was something in the reveal that gave me a reason to trust it, or could be vouched by someone else. That hasn't been the case for the three earlier reveals.

[RendeR]

RendeR, do you see any harm in saying who you used your power on that failed? That certainly could be noteworthy, particularly if you had used your day-time power already on an Olympian who has already passed away (BK, NTN, Pass).


I don't see how revealing that could hurt ME any, but It won't help the person I tried it on I think.

If you think it'd be worth risking some suspicion thrown that persons way I'd be willing to say who it was.

[RendeR]

Don't suppose you can narrow it down to a page?? Day 1 is long :)


I'd have to go back and look to be honest, but its more of an ongoing all day thing that got my attention.

[Telle]

Ok, I'm leaving for home shortly and I don't know how much time the little ones are going to give me to get on this evening.. so I'm just going to "put it all out there".

I am Asclepius - God of medicine. I have something of a weak seer ability. I can mix potions that allow me to "learn" something while in a drugged state. After Day 1 I learned that Achilles is one of the human roles active in the game. After Day 2 I learned that Apollo was scanning me.

And in an effort to save my own hide, I'm going to put all of my votes on the current front-runner..

VOTE SCHMIDTY

[Abe Sargent]

What kind of information did you get on me?

In the very section that you quoted, I said it didn't work.

[hoopsguy]

I don't see how revealing that could hurt ME any, but It won't help the person I tried it on I think.

If you think it'd be worth risking some suspicion thrown that persons way I'd be willing to say who it was.

Well, I don't know what your power is so I left the phrasing pretty open-ended.

I don't have a problem with putting suspicion on anyone in the game - there are no sacred cows in terms of players. Two sacred cows left in terms of roles (Hades and Poseidon), but is there a reason to think that your power would not work against one of them?

Your role, your decision, my two cents.

[Lathum]

Telle's reveal confuses me?

[Abe Sargent]

But you realize.. nobody saw you make that dice role.. nobody heard you make that agreement in your head. It very well could just be a distracting story and a way to hide your vote.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that it just seems odd to me and is something to look at. Most certainly not damning proof of any kind :)

Do you honestly think it would be good wolf strategy to vote yourself on day one? That'd be crazy, and I don't play crazy as a wolf (for proof of how I do act when under Day One scrutiny as a wolf, see last game). I might play UTR as a wolf, I might play helpful villager as a wolf, and I might play "Attacks a specific person" as a wolf, but I don't play crazy as a wolf. I'm too rational for that. (In Myers-Briggs terms, I have such a dominant T that I can't ply a game except rationaly, and taking a big risk just to see what happens is not rational).

[hoopsguy]

In the very section that you quoted, I said it didn't work.

Do you consider that a point in my favor or a strike against me?

Also, have you had another opportunity to use your power?

Do you know what kind of information you would have gotten about me if you had been able to locate me? For example, Telle's reveal sounds like she doesn't know going into the night what kind of information she will learn.

[RendeR]

Telle's reveal confuses me?



Seems a bit overly complicated, but there have been roles that twisted before.

[Lathum]

I believe Anxiety.

If it was anyone else in the game I would be skeptical, but not with him.

[RendeR]

And to respond to Hoopsguy:

It was You and It failed, no reason given, simply failed to happen.

[RendeR]

Anyone got a current vote count?

[Lathum]

Seems a bit overly complicated, but there have been roles that twisted before.

the timing of it seems odd.


why reveal?

[Abe Sargent]

Anxiety, have you used your power once or twice? If only once, then why not twice?

Once a day. Not telling what happened on Day one.

[RendeR]

the timing of it seems odd.


why reveal?


Yeah, it does seem a bit odd. But she may feel that the way hoops and I are arguing the day 1 voting situation and her possibly not being able to get back in time tonight due to the kids all ad up to wanting to add the insurance of a reveal.

Note that almost everyone has stated as much that more reveals garner less and less trust.

Especially considering the type of role she revealed. something seer-like seems like an awfully useful thing to throw to the wolves, so to speak.

Hrm....Couch...vote....couch....vote....

[Neon_Chaos]

Ok, I'm leaving for home shortly and I don't know how much time the little ones are going to give me to get on this evening.. so I'm just going to "put it all out there".

I am Asclepius - God of medicine. I have something of a weak seer ability. I can mix potions that allow me to "learn" something while in a drugged state. After Day 1 I learned that Achilles is one of the human roles active in the game. After Day 2 I learned that Apollo was scanning me.

And in an effort to save my own hide, I'm going to put all of my votes on the current front-runner..

VOTE SCHMIDTY

Short of revealing my role and ability, I can verify this. You're in my CoT, Telle, along with DT and Render.

The noose is tightening, Titans. Bring it on.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so I'm undetectable by Anxiety on Day 2 - not a huge surprise as I was kidnapped (Minotaur's lair).

However, you trying to take action against me on Day 3 and failing is a big surprise. I've got a bunch of questions that I would like to ask about this, but I don't want to force you into talking about your role if you are not prepared to do so. So, how about this - you ask me questions and I'll try to answer them.

[Abe Sargent]

Ok, I'm leaving for home shortly and I don't know how much time the little ones are going to give me to get on this evening.. so I'm just going to "put it all out there".

I am Asclepius - God of medicine. I have something of a weak seer ability. I can mix potions that allow me to "learn" something while in a drugged state. After Day 1 I learned that Achilles is one of the human roles active in the game. After Day 2 I learned that Apollo was scanning me.

And in an effort to save my own hide, I'm going to put all of my votes on the current front-runner..

VOTE SCHMIDTY


Wow.

[RendeR]

OK, so I'm undetectable by Anxiety on Day 2 - not a huge surprise as I was kidnapped (Minotaur's lair).

However, you trying to take action against me on Day 3 and failing is a big surprise. I've got a bunch of questions that I would like to ask about this, but I don't want to force you into talking about your role if you are not prepared to do so. So, how about this - you ask me questions and I'll try to answer them.


My ability does not work "against" anyone, it is a non-threatening ability.

I am not writing off the possibility that someone ELSE is acting against me to llimit my power also. I can't think of anything I could ask that would help without giving myself away entirely.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I certainly did not expect you to name me, RendeR. I did not receive any kind of PM related to you at all today.