Werewolf LVIII: Clash of the Gods (GAME OVER)

[Alan T]

Cronus, the youngest of the Titans has just killed his father Uranus, and has claimed the title of ruler of the entire universe. Cronus's sister/wife Rhea in order to stop his reign of terror hid away their child Zeus on the isle of Crete. After being raised to adulthood in hiding, Zeus has finally come back to lead the assault upon Cronus's rule. With the help of several other titans and fellow Gods, will the Olympians be strong enough to overthrow the ruler of the heavens?

Game moderator note: While I would have preferred this game to be called "Clash of the Titans" or "War of the Titans", I was afraid that similarities to the 1981 movie would confuse people to thinking that was the theme of this game. This game might include some characters from that story, but it is based upon Greek mythology in a much broader sense. Some characters or story lines may have been moderated to enable the flow of this game to be improved.

[Alan T]

Gameclock:
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The gameday will consist of one 24 hour gameturn each day. 10pm EST will signify the end of each game day and the start of the next day. Each player will have a vote action as well as personal actions that will be due by 10pm EST each day. Any actions received after the 10pm deadline will count for the next day. The game day officially ends once the board clock hits 10pm EST. Thus, any post marked at 10:00pm EST will be after the day deadline and count for the next day.

Weekend play:

We will play an extended weekend play time in order to not have the game to go stagnent, but to allow for a longer period of time to respond. The weekend play will consist of one game day that lasts from 10pm EST Friday night until 10pm EST Sunday night.

Schedule problems:

In the case that any player has issues with scheduling for a day and need to provide conditional orders/votes, please contact me via PM as soon as possible so we can work out a solution for you.

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The Characters:
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This list includes some of the characters that may be in play during this game. There is also always the possibility of additional characters being in the game that is not included in this list:

Evil Titans:
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Cronus
Coeus - Titan of Intelligence
Crius - the "Ram"
Hyperion - God of observation
Atlas
Campe - She-dragon with a woman's head and torso with a scorpion like tail.

Other titans:
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Gigantes
----
Alcyoneus
Porphyrion
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Hecatonchires
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Briareus (The Vigorous)
Cottus (The furious)
Gyes (The Big limbed)
----
Cyclops
----
Arges
Brontes
Sterioes

Monsters:
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Medusa
Kraken
Minotaur


Gods:
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Zeus - Ruler of the Gods
Hades - The king of the underworld
Poseidon - God of the Waters
Hestia - Goddess of the Hearth
Demeter - Goddess of Fertility
Hera - Goddess of Marriage and Womanhood
Ares - God of War
Hermes - Messenger of Heaven
Hephaestus - The Smith of Olympus
Aphrodite - The goddess of tender passions
Athena - Goddess of Warriors, industries and prudent intelligence
Apollo - God of prophecy and music
Artemis - Goddess of hunters
Hebe - The goddess of youth
Dionysus - god of the cultivaton of the vine
Persephone - Queen of the underworld
Asclepius - God of medicine

Mankind:
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Heracles - Greatest hero of mankind
Odysseus - King of Ithaca
Achilles - Hero of the trojan war.
Perseus - Founder of Mycenae

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The teams:
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Titans: The Titans, under the rule of Cronus rule the heavens and earth. With the help of various other monsters, they look to remain in power. Keep in mind that not all players that are "Titans" will be for this team. Several Titans will be alligned with the Olympians during this game. All players will be informed in their PM what team they are working for (if any).

The Olympians: Led by Zeus, the Olympians seek to overthrow Cronus from rule with the help of various other titans and heros of mankind. If you are a titan that is sympathetic to the Olympians' cause or a hero of mankind that wins with the Olympians, your PM will inform you as such.

Other: Several roles may have individual victory conditions that do not fall within the scope of the above two teams. Individuals will be informed as such if that case applies to them.

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Victory Conditions:
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Titans: You will win the game if you eliminate Zeus, Hades, Poseidon from the game as well as have a 1:1 Titan to Olympian ratio. Note: this does include Titans that are sympathetic to the Olympians cause as a Titan in this ratio.

Olympians: You will win the game if you eliminate all of the Titans that are working with Cronus. This does not include any monsters that may be teamed up with them, or any Titans that are sympathetic to the Olympians cause.

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Daily Actions:
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Each player receives 5 Action points (or APs) for each day. They must use at least 1 AP for a vote each day. Players that fail to place a vote for the day will not be allowed to use any APs for other actions during that day, and will be limited to only 1 AP for the following day which must be used for a vote.

Each player also has at least one individual action that they may choose to perform during the day. Any player that has multiple individual or team actions to choose from is limited to only one vote and one other action per day.

As all players are limited to only 1 vote and 1 action per day, they may use the remaining 3 Action points (APs) to further "strengthen" their votes or actions. Each AP spent on a vote will be counted in the final total. The player with the most votes is not lynched, it is the player with the most vote action points that is lynched at the end of the day. Likewise a player may choose to use further action points to strengthen their actions as well. A night kill action with 4 APs used will overwhelm a Bodyguard action with only 2 APs used for instance. In the case of actions conflicting with one another, a winning action will not always completely negate the losing action, but it will have the favorable outcome. ie: the bodyguard action listed above may fail, but they may be able to recognise who the assailant was.

Important note: Your Vote must be posted in the thread such as:

VOTE Alan T

You should send any other day actions as well as the number of Action points used for each via PM to me. Everyone else in the game does not get to know how many APs you spent that day and for what.

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Email/PM/IM communication:
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Players should not communicate with other players in this game outside of this thread in any topic regarding this game unless your PM clearly states that such communication is allowed.

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Disclaimer:
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Rules or Roles may be modified if needed or gameplay may be changed if needed during the course of the game if it is determined necessary in order to maintain the integrity of the game. If there are any questions or comments regarding this rule set, please send me a PM and I will respond as quick as I can.

[Alan T]

1) Render - Killed Day 3 Hermes / Olympian
2) Barkeep - Killed Day 2 Zeus / Olympian
3) Chief Rum
4) PurdueBrad - Killed Day5 Hera / Independant Olympian
5) St.Cronin
6) Neon_Chaos
7) Lathum - Lynched Day 5 Heracles / Mortal Hero
8) ntndeacon - Lynched Day 2 Dionysus / Olympian
9) ArlingtonColt - Lynched Day 6 Hephaestus / Olympian
10) Passacaglia - Killed Day 1 Athena / Olympian
11) Telle
12) Hoopsguy - Killed Day 4 Hades / Olympian
13) Path12 - Lynched Day 1 Cronus / Titan
14) Anxiety
15) Ardent_Enthusiast - Lynched Day 4 Atlas / Titan
16) Racer - Killed Day 5 Hyperion / Titan
17) DaddyTorgo
18) Raiders Army - Killed Day 6 Apollo / Olympian
19) Schmidty - Lynched Day 3 Minotaur / Monster

[RendeR]

IN!


YAY I'm the irst one IN ! Whoooot!

[Barkeep49]

I am purposefully not signing up now since Render beat me as the first one in :)

On a more serious note when you looking to start?

[Barkeep49]

DOLA: And I know I read somewhere that you said your next game was going to be Wall Street. What happened to that? I thought it was an awesome theme for WW.

[Chief Rum]

Maybe it's financial gods. :)

I'm in. Hopefully this time, y'all won't kill me right away for being "suspiciously absent" from the game on Mondays and Tuesdays. :rolleyes:

[PurdueBrad]

I'm in as well.

[st.cronin]

I'll play.

[Alan T]

DOLA: And I know I read somewhere that you said your next game was going to be Wall Street. What happened to that? I thought it was an awesome theme for WW.

I am looking to start early this week (tuesday/wednesday) if ther eis enough interest. As for what happened to Wall street, well long story short.. I had forgotten when I said that would be my next game, but I still have the rule set for that in my folder. I had originally changed my next game to be "Black and White" but have tabled that one until later. This ruleset I think will hopefully be one of my best games yet and one I worked up before I actually ran my Tombstone game. I just wanted to get a feel for what I needed to lock down on wide open games where everyone has actions before I rolled out this game.

Hopefully everyone will enjoy it. Its not overly complex, but it gives everyone a chance to contibute :)

[st.cronin]

Alan's games are always great; I think he's my favorite ww-host. Tombstone and the Big City I think are my two favorite games ever.

[Chief Rum]

Agreed. I don't know if either of his games I have palyed in were my favorite (haven't really played that all out in my mind), but I know I had a blast in both of his games, playing a hooker sheriff in one and a neutral bookie in the other.

[Neon_Chaos]

In.

[Lathum]

Tombstone was easily in my yop 2 games.


In

Any idea about the weekend schedule, I won't really be available next weekend

[Alan T]

Rule set posted. If there is any questions regarding how the actionpoints/actions/voting happens, please feel free to ask those questions now and I will happily answer them. That is the only really different part of this game to understand, so I wish to not have that affect the game play. I will make sure to spell things out as we go as well so there is not unintentional confusion.

(Barkeep, was your posting a signup earlier, or are you not signed up? Wasn't sure if I put you down or not) :)

[Alan T]

Tombstone was easily in my yop 2 games.


In

Any idea about the weekend schedule, I won't really be available next weekend

Weekend schedule will be extended play. Friday -> Sunday night = 1 day. I'm moving next weekend so I won't be around a ton next weekend either.

[ntndeacon]

in

[ArlingtonColt]

In

[Passacaglia]

In.

[Barkeep49]

(Barkeep, was your posting a signup earlier, or are you not signed up? Wasn't sure if I put you down or not) :)

I refused to sign-up at that time. I will, however, sign up now :)

[Lathum]

how about a thread in the GD?

[Alan T]

how about a thread in the GD?

Put one there this morning :) I assume we'll have more people fill in the next few hours. As long as I have a decent amount of players by tonight I will start the game with PMs sent out and day 1 will end on Wednesday morning at 10am EST. I don't need 20 players for this game to work, but as with most of my games like this, the more people there are the more fun that happens for everyone's roles :)

[Telle]

I'll play.

[hoopsguy]

I'm in as long as we start early in the week. If the date gets pushed back very far I won't be able to do this as next weekend is hosed.

So if I'm a villager I'm asking the wolves to remove me by Day 5 or so :) If I'm a wolf I expect to be scanned or do something stupid to get run without needing much help.

[Lathum]

I'm in as long as we start early in the week. If the date gets pushed back very far I won't be able to do this as next weekend is hosed.

So if I'm a villager I'm asking the wolves to remove me by Day 5 or so :) If I'm a wolf I expect to be scanned or do something stupid to get run without needing much help.

why should this game be any different then others?

[path12]

Once again I'm about to take a break but can't really miss a game Alan is running......no matter how awfully I'm playing at the moment.

Sign me up.

[Abe Sargent]

In

[hoopsguy]

why should this game be any different then others?

I've seen plenty of wolves leave me alive when my theories are dumb. I'm asking them not to because I'll be unable to post my dumb theories for a couple of days near the end of next week. So that part is a little different - usually I'm around to post new dumb theories each and every day.

[st.cronin]

I've seen plenty of wolves leave me alive when my theories are dumb.

:)

[Abe Sargent]

I've seen plenty of wolves leave me alive when my theories are dumb. I'm asking them not to because I'll be unable to post my dumb theories for a couple of days near the end of next week. So that part is a little different - usually I'm around to post new dumb theories each and every day.

*Raises Hand*

[Passacaglia]

Or maybe they just want to end your streak of never getting lynched as a villager.

[Alan T]

Just an update, We have 14 signed up now, which is enough for a good WW game. I'll leave signups open until tonight just in case anyone else wants to join in. I'll close up signups some point after 9pm EST tonight and send out roles/information tonight.

Day 1 will run from when Roles go out tonight until Tuesday night 10pm EST. Deadline will be Tuesday night.

[Lathum]

perfect, lets get going!!!!!

[RendeR]

woohoo

[Poli]

http://www.accommodations-in-europe.com/inn.jpg

[Neon_Chaos]

You spelled 'in' wrong.































:D

[Barkeep49]

Welcome Back Ardent.

[Racer]

I'll play.

[saldana]

as much as i would love to, i am out...i have a deal with my wife that i dont play game after game after game, and i have already played 2 in a row, so i gotta sit one or two out.

[RendeR]

But I need you in the next game! I have 3 perfect roles for you, special!

[RendeR]

BTW do you look better as a redhead, brunette or blonde?

[saldana]

BTW do you look better as a redhead, brunette or blonde?

i have no hair.

[Alan T]

BTW do you look better as a redhead, brunette or blonde?


lol best setup question ever.

[Alan T]

I have the 16 roles picked that will be in the game if this is the list of final players. I ideally actually would like one additional player to help balance out one specific thing, but if not I will be sending out roles in a little while. I am just giving another hour or so for last chance to sign up for people. I figure if they haven't signed up by now they likely won't anyways though :)

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit. I'm in, but just because it's an alan t game

[Raiders Army]

Looks good to me. Sign me up Uncle Alfred.

[Schmidty]

I'll play.

[Alan T]

I am glad that everyone has decided to join up. I hope you find this game fair, challenging and entertaining! I have closed the signups and will be sending out PMs in a few minutes. It might take a bit of time for all PMs to go out. The game will officially start once all PMs have been sent out.

[Barkeep49]

Just for the record since the Titans is intertwined with the the Olympians/Heroes, I will be referring to evil doers as the wolves and to good guys as villagers, since it seems to have a standard dynamic in terms of win conditions and such.

[Alan T]

All PMs have been sent out. If you did not receive one and expect that you should have, please drop me a PM to let me know. Also if you have questions regarding your role or how Action points work with it, please let me know in PM.

Day 1 Starts now:

Zeus has called forth upon all Olympians to help him lead the charge against the cruel Titan lord Cronus. In a fight that the earths and heavens has never seen before, and likely never will see again you must draw upon all of your power to overcome your adversity. You must now decide whom among you are the Titans hiding in disguise.. Pick one today for your lynch vote and the player with the most vote points at the end of the day will be destroyed.

All players must place a Vote in this thread such as:

VOTE ALAN T

the number of points you wish to spend on the vote as well as any actions should be PM'd in private to me.

Deadline is Tuesday night 10pm EST

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, who is more likely to have this role - Ardent or Schmidty? Discuss.

Cottus (The furious)

[Neon_Chaos]

Checking in.

[Neon_Chaos]

Hmm, who is more likely to have this role - Ardent or Schmidty? Discuss.

Render.

:)

[Barkeep49]

Can we unvote or is the AP spent once we cast the vote?

[Passacaglia]

Hey all. I am an Olympian.

[Alan T]

Can we unvote or is the AP spent once we cast the vote?

Everyone has to cast a vote every day, or they forfeit their other Actionpoints any ways. You can change who you vote for as many times as you want during the day however by posting the update in the thread. You can also change how many Action points you spend and for what as many times as you want in PM to me.

[Passacaglia]

Hey all. I am an Olympian.

Or maybe I should say, I am Olympian.

[Barkeep49]

So we're not really going to know where we're at in this game, really, in terms of voting.

[hoopsguy]

I'm guessing there is no indication of who spent how many action points, but just a total "votes" listed for each at the end of the day?

[Barkeep49]

Ok since hoops is back and I went away from my "hoops is always a wolf" suspicion last game when he was a friggin wolf, he's got my D1 vote this game as a result this game.

Vote hoopsguy

[hoopsguy]

Perfect logic, BK.

So, I'm doing some thinking on the voting for today. Is there a compelling reason on Day 1 to put extra votes in on a candidate? Obviously as we learn more information it makes sense to try and influence a good vote, but the ability to spend extra points adds another dynamic to measure when evaluating votes. I don't see how this is going to be pro-Olympian at the outset.

Thoughts?

[PurdueBrad]

I am Olympia (and so can you!) for the Stephen Colbert fans out there.

[Barkeep49]

Perfect logic, BK.
It's a d1 vote. Let's not read more into it than that.


So, I'm doing some thinking on the voting for today. Is there a compelling reason on Day 1 to put extra votes in on a candidate? Obviously as we learn more information it makes sense to try and influence a good vote, but the ability to spend extra points adds another dynamic to measure when evaluating votes. I don't see how this is going to be pro-Olympian at the outset.

Thoughts?

I'm also concerned about people being able to manipulate the votes behind the scenes as I've already commented on. I'm not sure the best way to combat that.

[ntndeacon]

Perfect logic, BK.

So, I'm doing some thinking on the voting for today. Is there a compelling reason on Day 1 to put extra votes in on a candidate? Obviously as we learn more information it makes sense to try and influence a good vote, but the ability to spend extra points adds another dynamic to measure when evaluating votes. I don't see how this is going to be pro-Olympian at the outset.

Thoughts?

I can't see any good reason to put more than one vote action or whatever the points are given.


I wonder if we get to know the total actions taken vs an individual?

[Barkeep49]

I can't see any good reason to put more than one vote action or whatever the points are given.


I wonder if we get to know the total actions taken vs an individual?
You think people will just let the APs go to waste?

[Neon_Chaos]

Ooooh, the gauntlet has been thrown by BK. :D

I am assuming that there are certain win conditions and situations that would restrict us from revealing who we are (other than the Olympians that the Titan must kill). Because if not, we can all reveal and weed out the Titans easily.

On second thought, Alan T has probably designed the roles to prevent that from happening.

Right?

:)

[ntndeacon]

dola

another question...

can these points be hoarded. use our one action on a vote and that is it or one on a vote and one on an action and hoard the rest?

[Neon_Chaos]

*Titans

[ntndeacon]

You think people will just let the APs go to waste?

no, but if we know vote action totals, that would be a big help in determining extra actions there. It might narrow the field we are looking at in certain cases.

[ntndeacon]

Ooooh, the gauntlet has been thrown by BK. :D

I am assuming that there are certain win conditions and situations that would restrict us from revealing who we are (other than the Olympians that the Titan must kill). Because if not, we can all reveal and weed out the Titans easily.

On second thought, Alan T has probably designed the roles to prevent that from happening.

Right?

:)

Certainly true for the Nuetral Titans and monsters, but aren't the Titans favoring Olympus counted for the good guys now?

[Alan T]

dola

another question...

can these points be hoarded. use our one action on a vote and that is it or one on a vote and one on an action and hoard the rest?

Points are either used each day or lost. You start the next day with the same number of points each day unless for some game reasons that you have a modified amount.

[hoopsguy]

In terms of the points - using the example that Alan does in the rules, I would hope that our Olympian bodyguard would have max points available to protect on Night 1 if we can't bank the points.

Again, I think there is increasing value to backing the votes with action points later in the game. Just not so much on Day 1. It is going to be hard enough to figure out what people are doing with their votes/points without adding that element on a day where we are essentially flying blind.

[Barkeep49]

I would think Alan's designed a game to account for a mass reveal after that worked so successfully recently but I'm always game for it.

[ntndeacon]

Points are either used each day or lost. You start the next day with the same number of points each day unless for some game reasons that you have a modified amount.

I thought this was probably the case, but just to be sure I wanted it out there.

[Alan T]

Also remember each day is a 24 hour cycle. There is no night/day periods here. All actions must be submitted by 10pm EST Tuesday night as well.

[Barkeep49]

I'll say now that my power isn't so clear cut that I will want to invest 4 points in it, like the BG would.

Hoops: I agree that if some people are using their powers come Day 4 and you're spending 5 points on voting that you will have a large effect. We saw last game the large effect someone can have even just having 2 votes compared to someone else's 1, or 0. The relative imbalance will be even more this game.

[hoopsguy]

I would think Alan's designed a game to account for a mass reveal after that worked so successfully recently but I'm always game for it.

Given that the Titans are hunting for three Olympians in their victory condition, I'm guessing that a mass reveal is not an optimal play.

Getting harder not to read anything into the early vote ...

[Neon_Chaos]

I would think Alan's designed a game to account for a mass reveal after that worked so successfully recently but I'm always game for it.

I am up for it if everyone is on-board with it.

But, yeah, I would think that Alan would have worked some mechanism to make sure a mass-reveal wouldn't be as successful as it was before.

[Barkeep49]

Given that the Titans are hunting for three Olympians in their victory condition, I'm guessing that a mass reveal is not an optimal play.

Getting harder not to read anything into the early vote ...
Why? So what if the three Olympians reveal if we've found the Titans. The Olympians shouldn't reveal first but even if the Titans claimed one of them we'd be able to sort out pretty quickly who was telling the truth and who wasn't about that. Seems ot me like it would be a quick game if we got people on board with this.

[Alan T]

I would like to encourage people to not try the mass reveal strategy from a few games ago. I am not saying this because I feel that it will give the villagers an easy victory, but instead because i feel it will be giving the villagers an easy defeat. I put in a balance into the game to prevent a mass reveal from working (the same as PM sharing), and I can gurantuee that its unlikely that any titans would be caught from a mass reveal.

I am not preventing anyone from doing a reveal, but just want to make sure its known that there are safeguards in place as I don't want the game to go unbalanced the other direction.

[ntndeacon]

I certainly don't want any narrowing of suspects for those Titans. And How many Titans are there.

[hoopsguy]

Neon or Ardent - can either of you explain to me why a mass reveal would be good at all? There are so many names in the opening post that I really think that there would be a lot of room for people to hide in the latter stages.

Could we have someone make an early fake reveal? Maybe, but Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon are also going to want to fake reveal rather than give up their identity publicly. So they will be holding out until later to fake along with the Titans. The Titans know who they are, so we leave those three guys hung out to dry in a fake reveal scenario.

Again, I'm willing to be convinced but I'm surprised that two people I consider decent thinkers seem to be so at odds with my views right now.

[Neon_Chaos]

Given that the Titans are hunting for three Olympians in their victory condition, I'm guessing that a mass reveal is not an optimal play.

Getting harder not to read anything into the early vote ...

Note that their victory condition says that they must kill the three olympians AND get a 1:1 ratio with the villagers to win. I assume that we can weed out who's who before they meet all of those objectives. Unless of course, the ratio of Olympians and Titans aren't as great. Do we know if the humans count as Olympians as well? I'm thinking no.

What I'm weary about is if there are roles out there that might have a different victory condition.

But I'm all up for it.

[Barkeep49]

I would like to encourage people to not try the mass reveal strategy from a few games ago. I am not saying this because I feel that it will give the villagers an easy victory, but instead because i feel it will be giving the villagers an easy defeat. I put in a balance into the game to prevent a mass reveal from working (the same as PM sharing), and I can gurantuee that its unlikely that any titans would be caught from a mass reveal.

I am not preventing anyone from doing a reveal, but just want to make sure its known that there are safeguards in place as I don't want the game to go unbalanced the other direction.

Ok so my guess is that this means the Titans know which roles are actually in the game.

[Neon_Chaos]

I would like to encourage people to not try the mass reveal strategy from a few games ago. I am not saying this because I feel that it will give the villagers an easy victory, but instead because i feel it will be giving the villagers an easy defeat. I put in a balance into the game to prevent a mass reveal from working (the same as PM sharing), and I can gurantuee that its unlikely that any titans would be caught from a mass reveal.

I am not preventing anyone from doing a reveal, but just want to make sure its known that there are safeguards in place as I don't want the game to go unbalanced the other direction.


Point taken, Alan T.

I assumed as much that there are mechanisms in place. And if it only gives easy defeat to the villagers, then let's forget about it.

Let's just have people reveal at the right time and the right moment so we can weed out the Titans properly.

[Neon_Chaos]

Neon or Ardent - can either of you explain to me why a mass reveal would be good at all? There are so many names in the opening post that I really think that there would be a lot of room for people to hide in the latter stages.

Could we have someone make an early fake reveal? Maybe, but Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon are also going to want to fake reveal rather than give up their identity publicly. So they will be holding out until later to fake along with the Titans. The Titans know who they are, so we leave those three guys hung out to dry in a fake reveal scenario.

Again, I'm willing to be convinced but I'm surprised that two people I consider decent thinkers seem to be so at odds with my views right now.

It's just an idea, hoops. Granted, if Zeus/Hades/Poseidon also have different victory conditions, there is no reason why they can't sacrifice themselves to help weed out the Titans.

The point is moot, however. Seems like Alan T does have certain precautionary measures in place to make it unfavorable for the villagers to mass-reveal.

[Alan T]

Please note also that there are 4 "species" in the game. Titans, Monsters, Olympians and Mankind (humans). They count as different species in victory conditions, however various ones may be working with other teams and have been noted as such in their personal PM.

Titans must kill Zeus, Poseidon, Hades and come to a 1:1 ratio of titans in the game (even ones loyal to the Olympians) to Olympians (not counting monsters or humans).

Olympians must kill the Titans off completely (but does not have to kill off the monsters that may be assisting the Titans.)

Any other personal or small scale victory conditions have been noted in the PMs

[DaddyTorgo]

checking in. Been around but talking on the phone since PM's went out, so I didn't even read mine till just now.

Proud Olympian here.

[ntndeacon]

Alan will we get a vote action total at the end of the day or just a winner and who voted for who (with no vote action total given)?

[Schmidty]

Hi.

[Barkeep49]

Ok so interesting dynamic: THe Olympians have people helping them who they need to kill. The Titans have people trying to thwart them who they need to keep alive. With 19 players I'm thinking there could be as many as 6, but more likely 5, titans in the game total with 3 bad guys, plus 2 other Neutral/Pro Olympian Titans.

[DaddyTorgo]

neon...hard push for a mass reveal buddy...what gives?

[Barkeep49]

So given the clarification from Alan, what about a mankind reveal?

[Alan T]

Alan will we get a vote action total at the end of the day or just a winner and who voted for who (with no vote action total given)?

No one will know the final vote point total, just a list of whom voted for whom and who ended up dead. Vote points spent are a private thing between me, that player and anyone who might have a role to see such things.

[ntndeacon]

Please note also that there are 4 "species" in the game. Titans, Monsters, Olympians and Mankind (humans). They count as different species in victory conditions, however various ones may be working with other teams and have been noted as such in their personal PM.

Titans must kill Zeus, Poseidon, Hades and come to a 1:1 ratio of titans in the game (even ones loyal to the Olympians) to Olympians (not counting monsters or humans).

Olympians must kill the Titans off completely (but does not have to kill off the monsters that may be assisting the Titans.)

Any other personal or small scale victory conditions have been noted in the PMs


Olympians have to kill all of the Titans? ithought it was just those Loyal to Croeses. So we kill even the ones that have loyalty to the Olympians?

[DaddyTorgo]

no vote points makes it impossible to use that like we did in say the Rome game to try to hold people accountable.

[ntndeacon]

No one will know the final vote point total, just a list of whom voted for whom and who ended up dead. Vote points spent are a private thing between me, that player and anyone who might have a role to see such things.

Gotcha. We could hope :)

[Neon_Chaos]

So given the clarification from Alan, what about a mankind reveal?

That would be dangerous, Alan. If everyone doesn't reveal then the reveal doesn't work.

You narrow down the Olympians that the Titans must kill, and therefore, make it easier for the Olympians.

Mass reveals only work when everyone reveals.

[hoopsguy]

Hi.

Hi.

[Alan T]

To further clarify the victory conditions (since I am not sure those are clear, and this is the time to clarify things)

5 Titans (good or bad), 5 Olympians, 1 monster, 3 humans = Titan win if Zeus, Poseidon and Hades are dead. Titans only care about TItans compared to Olympians, they do not care about monster or human totals.

3 Titans (all good titans left), 4 Olympians, 2 monsters, 4 humans = Olympians win.
Olympians only care about the titans working with Cronus. They do not care about monsters or humans in their victory conditions.

Everyone else either wins with the Olympians or the Titans or have some other individual victory condition listed in their PM.

[Neon_Chaos]

Dola, I mean BK, not Alan. :)

[Alan T]

Olympians have to kill all of the Titans? ithought it was just those Loyal to Croeses. So we kill even the ones that have loyalty to the Olympians?


No, you are right, only the titans loyal to Cronus must die for the Olympians to win.

[ntndeacon]

Thank you for the clarification, Alan. I was getting cornfused.

[Raiders Army]

Checkin in. The way things have been going lately, I won't have an internet connection in the morning (because it's cold out) and I can't access at work. That means at best I'll be able to check in during my lunch tomorrow and at worst I'll be able to check in when I get home tomorrow night.

[RendeR]

i have no hair.


We have wigs.....

[Racer]

Olympian checking in.

[Abe Sargent]

There was a recent game with a mass reveal issue? What game?

[Neon_Chaos]

The Clue game would be most recent one.

[path12]

I'm also concerned about people being able to manipulate the votes behind the scenes as I've already commented on. I'm not sure the best way to combat that.

Catching up. I don't know how we can if it's essentially secret voting.

By the way, checking in too, I guess.

[path12]

OK, so we can't reveal, and we can't really get full info from voting records because of the point totals. Seems well balanced so far.

[Abe Sargent]

The Clue game would be most recent one.

Just went and read it. Crazy.

[Chief Rum]

All right, I am here now. I will be away at work tomorrow day (as usual), but I got a "gift" from my second job and they actually scheduled me off Tuesday night. So I should be around to put in a vote and an action.

But, no, not planning to do any of that now. I think a mass reveal is a mistake, but I think you guys have already come to the same conclusion.

[ArlingtonColt]

Checking in... Mass reveal would be awful and we really shouldn't consider it at this point. Maybe when key roles need to be revealed later in order to save yourself (standard). And I'm an olympian.

[DaddyTorgo]

anything going on since last night?

[DaddyTorgo]

apparently not. and i'm the only one here right now. i'll be around most the day i would assume, although I of course have work to do.

[RendeR]

anything going on since last night?

We're still trying to figure out if Saldana looks better as a redhead, brunette or blonde. With Wigs...



Oh and Olympian here, not sure I said that previously.

[PurdueBrad]

We're still trying to figure out if Saldana looks better as a redhead, brunette or blonde. With Wigs...


Am I missing the inside joke here with trying to turn Saldana into a woman? :confused: Gonna propose RendeR?

[Alan T]

With under 12 hours remaining, the current votes are:

Hoopsguy - Barkeep (60)

Reminder everyone must vote or you will be punished for non-voting. All actions and AP usage needs to be received before the deadline as well.

[RendeR]

Am I missing the inside joke here with trying to turn Saldana into a woman? :confused: Gonna propose RendeR?


Guess you missed the memo...

Saldana's a chick.

[DaddyTorgo]

it's day 1, so i'm going to announce that i have no intention of "powering up" my vote

[Telle]

Checking in.

So not much going on yet. Looks like the consensus is that a mass reveal is not a good idea.

Are we interested in revealing how much we add to our votes? Or is there too much room for lying involved in that since there's no real way to check it?

[RendeR]

There is really no way to verify it. Alan has mentioned that the amount of action points is pretty much a GM-player only conversation, so even if we anounced it, there is no waqy to verify. Lots of room for "Titanic" lies there.

[Poli]

I'm still confused as to what's going on. These victory conditions are hurting my head. Maybe I've been gone from the game for too long. Maybe I've got too much Pardus and HS football on my brain.

Just a FYI: You're likely not to see me at all on Friday. I'm working at a hospital in Belleville, IL then driving down to Perryville MO for a wedding rehearsal. If things go well, from there I'll head to Fredericktown MO, where my 5-3 Potosi Trojans (I scout/consult for the team) are taking on the 8-0 Fredericktown Black Cats.

I will have to log in at some point and register my vote so not to get penalized. Don't penalize me personally when you wonder where I'm at.

[st.cronin]

Olympian checking in.

I'll be busy most of the day until around 6pm Eastern Time or so.

[st.cronin]

Just went and read it. Crazy.

No kidding.

[Passacaglia]

No kidding.

yeah, yeah -- well, it was fun for a couple days, at least! :p

[DaddyTorgo]

thinking I may lay a vote on Neon Chaos today, based on his pushing for a D1 reveal. I can see a Titan sticking their neck out to try to advocate that to try to gain information, and it's as good as anything for a D1 vote right now

VOTE NEON CHAOS

*disclaimer* subject to change, although I likely will be away from the computer from 5pm-8pm or so

[Barkeep49]

Checking in.

So not much going on yet. Looks like the consensus is that a mass reveal is not a good idea.

Are we interested in revealing how much we add to our votes? Or is there too much room for lying involved in that since there's no real way to check it?
I think to a certain extent we should make this public info. I think keeping this stuff secret leaves too much room for the bad guys to maneuver and manipulate. So, I'm not sure where my vote's going to end up today but I will be using my full 5 AP on it.

[RendeR]

I think to a certain extent we should make this public info. I think keeping this stuff secret leaves too much room for the bad guys to maneuver and manipulate. So, I'm not sure where my vote's going to end up today but I will be using my full 5 AP on it.


Just to be clear BK, there is just as much room for manipulating the votes if we announce them. Its the lack of verification of what people added to their votes that creates the problem.

[Passacaglia]

I think BK is suggesting that if we announce what we do, we're at least more likely to find out who's lying.

[Neon_Chaos]

DT, I was contemplating it, and from what I gather, Barkeep was also thinking about it as well.

After further discussion, and clarification from AlanT, it seems that there are certain factors that would make a mass-reveal unhelpful to the village, as opposed to how succesful that strategy has been the past couple of games.

BK even suggested a humans-only reveal, to which I said would be more disasterous. That would cut the field down as to which players could be Olympians, and help the Titans.

I didn't push hard for a reveal, you're the one trying to say that. If you didn't see the advantages of a Day 1 reveal before AlanT explained all the disadvantages that he put into place, then you didn't understand what I was talking about. Or are you playing dumb? :)

As it is, I am only putting one point into my vote. I have a certain ability that I can use at night that would require me to use 4 points, and I intend on using that ability tonight.

For now, though, for feigning ignorance...

Vote DaddyTorgo

[Abe Sargent]

I have to vote, so, in order to determine who my initial vote will fall on, I rolled a d20. I'd re-roll a 20. That means there is a 1 in 19 chance that I would vote for anybody, including myself.

I rolled a 14. Who is that?

Me. I rolled my frickin' self.

Well hell

Vote Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

I will follow the lead and announce that my vote with be just 1 ap. (no, really?) I have an ability that I have never seen before in WW and I want to take it out for a spin and see if I can do anything with it.

[DaddyTorgo]

not feigning ignorance. just seemed that you were pushing a bit hard at it. and BK hasn't escaped my eye either for his pushing.

with so many roles i don't see the advantages, so many places to hide and i trust alan to have constructed the game so it wouldn't be that easy.

interesting. so you have announced you intend to use an ability tonight...that's a good piece of information for us all to have.

like i said, my vote is subject to change. it's just D1

[PurdueBrad]

You know, we need a rule where a person can just jump on day #2 because day 1 is really my least favorite day. Anxiety, nice method on the vote! The reveal discussions by several bothered me but it may have just been attempts to find an easy victory. We'll see where my day one goes ultimately but I'll go

vote Neon_Chaos as a placeholder.

[Passacaglia]

I have to vote, so, in order to determine who my initial vote will fall on, I rolled a d20. I'd re-roll a 20. That means there is a 1 in 19 chance that I would vote for anybody, including myself.

I rolled a 14. Who is that?

Me. I rolled my frickin' self.

Well hell

Vote Anxiety

I'll join you.

VOTE ANXIETY

[Passacaglia]

You know, we need a rule where a person can just jump on day #2 because day 1 is really my least favorite day. Anxiety, nice method on the vote! The reveal discussions by several bothered me but it may have just been attempts to find an easy victory. We'll see where my day one goes ultimately but I'll go

vote Neon_Chaos as a placeholder.

I think that's basically what a no lynch vote is. Or, you could start with a Night 0, and let the wolves go first.

[PurdueBrad]

I think that's basically what a no lynch vote is. Or, you could start with a Night 0, and let the wolves go first.

Thanks Pass, never realized that that was what Night 0 did but knew that I had enjoyed the difference. I guess I never really put 2 and 2 together.

[Barkeep49]

I think BK is suggesting that if we announce what we do, we're at least more likely to find out who's lying.
That is correct. The more information we share, the easier it is to start to figure out who might be lying or not telling the truth. I am in favor of sharing info in general and while it seems that roles is not the way to go, I think sharing how many points we're putting behind our votes is a start. I have announced what I'm doing today and followed through. In essence right now Hoops has 5 votes. How do the 2 votes for Anxiety or Neon Chaos stack up compared to that? We don't really know. This is why I want to share our voting.

[Raiders Army]

I have to vote, so, in order to determine who my initial vote will fall on, I rolled a d20. I'd re-roll a 20. That means there is a 1 in 19 chance that I would vote for anybody, including myself.

I rolled a 14. Who is that?

Me. I rolled my frickin' self.

Well hell

Vote Anxiety

Quite possibly the most insane move I've ever seen. I see Pass has joined you, so I'll make it three. Let's see who you move your vote to.

VOTE ANXIETY
One AP.

[Barkeep49]

I have to admit I've been tempted to join the Anxiety vote train. I despise self votes and am not such a fan of the rolling the dice for D1 either as it makes it easier for someone to deflect responsibility for the vote in the long run.

[Barkeep49]

And thanks to Raiders for including his AP. I believe we're looking at the current rough vote total:

Anxiety (3) - Anxiety (1), Pass (?), Raiders (1)
Hoops (5) - Barkeep (5)
Neon (2) - Purdue (?), DaddyT (?)
DT (1) - Neon (1)

[RendeR]

Again, not to belabor this but how can you learn anything from that BK? So everyone announces the AP's they use, seing how there is no way to know how many AP's actually got put out there, anyone could simply lie through their teeth.

Even if Alan announces the total AP's spent, that still really gives us nothng other than the aiblity to suspet every person that voted for the guy who's numbers don't add up.

I'll join in and use 1AP to vote, dunno who I'm voting for yet.

I'll vote Telle. She's always fairly well trusted. I don't recall her being a wolf much so I'm betting she's due.

VOTE TELLE

[Lathum]

Vote Hoopsguy


I like to keep it close and interesting

[RendeR]

meant to remove the "i dunno who" line in that but forgot =)

[Lathum]

I'm not really sure if we can legitimaly claim how many points we are using to vote.

This may have been mentioned but since everybody has an individual action as well I think it could be easy to confuse someones use of action points as sinister when they could actualy be using them with good intentions.

[Poli]

Absent any other reasoning, I'm not a fan of the vote for yourself, and I've never heard of it used on Day 1.

VOTE ANXIETY
1 AP.

[hoopsguy]

Vote Hoopsguy


I like to keep it close and interesting

Sure, close and interesting when BK has said he is putting five votes on me. For reasons that I still don't understand at all. Are you going to be keeping it "close and interesting" with five action points as well? Because based on what I've seen posted in the thread you just padded my lead by 1-5 points instead of keeping things close.

I am going to be reserving my votes for self-preservation at this point in the day. I had intended, as posted early, to put one vote/point out there so I would have maximum points available for night activity. I think that is what would be best for Olympus, but keeping our numbers ahead of the Titans is also pretty high on the importance scale.

[PurdueBrad]

My vote is 1 AP but like I said, it is likely to change.

[Lathum]

Sure, close and interesting when BK has said he is putting five votes on me. For reasons that I still don't understand at all. Are you going to be keeping it "close and interesting" with five action points as well? Because based on what I've seen posted in the thread you just padded my lead by 1-5 points instead of keeping things close.

I am going to be reserving my votes for self-preservation at this point in the day. I had intended, as posted early, to put one vote/point out there so I would have maximum points available for night activity. I think that is what would be best for Olympus, but keeping our numbers ahead of the Titans is also pretty high on the importance scale.

why would I answer that question?

[RendeR]

My vote is 1 AP but like I said, it is likely to change.


This is exactly why trying to keep track of the AP's won't work. First off, everyone can change their minds at any time and secondly, we'll never know how many actually got used because thats all privately sent to Alan.

Frustrating.

[Barkeep49]

I'm not really sure if we can legitimaly claim how many points we are using to vote.

This may have been mentioned but since everybody has an individual action as well I think it could be easy to confuse someones use of action points as sinister when they could actualy be using them with good intentions.
I agree people have villager beneficial reasons for using APs other than voting. I am not suggesting that people not using their APs for voting are evil. I do, however, think that evil could manipulate the vote count.

why would I answer that question?

And it is that evil manipulation of the vote count being the reason why you should be honest.

[Barkeep49]

This is exactly why trying to keep track of the AP's won't work. First off, everyone can change their minds at any time and secondly, we'll never know how many actually got used because thats all privately sent to Alan.

Frustrating.
Sure it's frustrating, but I think being completely in the dark or basically in the dark, about where someone stands is a bad strategy as well. THat's why I think it's worth the effort.

[ntndeacon]

There is really no way to verify it. Alan has mentioned that the amount of action points is pretty much a GM-player only conversation, so even if we anounced it, there is no waqy to verify. Lots of room for "Titanic" lies there.

He did mention the possibility of some actions could get a peek.

[hoopsguy]

why would I answer that question?

Um, because we are trying to have some level of accountability behind our voting actions?

If you have read along with the thread, BK has indicated that he is putting five votes on me. I don't like this at all, but at least I know where I stand. You come in and say you are "keeping things close/interesting/whatever" when this is not the case if you take people's posts at face value.

Consider you added to the short list of people I would be voting for if I wasn't being forced into self-preservation mode. And I don't know what you are going to say on this topic at this point that would change my opinion on Day 1.

[RendeR]

Sure it's frustrating, but I think being completely in the dark or basically in the dark, about where someone stands is a bad strategy as well. THat's why I think it's worth the effort.

I can see where you're coming from here, but it just seems a little pointless. No matter what anyone says, we're still completely in the dark because the only thing we know for a fact is that they used at least 1 AP. I don't see how guessing or trusting that anyone saying they are using more helps us. thats all.

[Lathum]

Sure it's frustrating, but I think being completely in the dark or basically in the dark, about where someone stands is a bad strategy as well. THat's why I think it's worth the effort.

I completly disagree.

Lets say I state I only used 1 action point for my vote.

Don't you think that puts a target on my back?

[Barkeep49]

I completly disagree.

Lets say I state I only used 1 action point for my vote.

Don't you think that puts a target on my back?
I'd say not considering I'm the only person who has stated that they are using more than 1 AP on the vote today.

[ntndeacon]

Ok the voting for multiple points today seems sketchy regardless of what you have said Barkeep. and since I have to vote today...

Vote Barkeep

1 AP

[RendeR]

I completly disagree.

Lets say I state I only used 1 action point for my vote.

Don't you think that puts a target on my back?


No, really it doesn't, because no matter HOW you vote we KNOW you put 1AP on it, you don't have a choice, so we're all at that level as far as trust goes.

I have more issue with those stating they are using MORE than 1 because they are the one who could well be lying.


(caps for emphasis, not anger *grins*)

[RendeR]

I'd say not considering I'm the only person who has stated that they are using more than 1 AP on the vote today.



Grabs the red and white paint....."hold still for a second..."

[Neon_Chaos]

Wow. 11 people on the board. Woohoo.

Hooray for what looks like an active Day 1. This is 3 or 4 games in a row now.

[Lathum]

No, really it doesn't, because no matter HOW you vote we KNOW you put 1AP on it, you don't have a choice, so we're all at that level as far as trust goes.


maybe I missed someting but is the number of action points you use on your vote public?

[Neon_Chaos]

On the thread, I meant.

[RendeR]

maybe I missed someting but is the number of action points you use on your vote public?


No.

[Neon_Chaos]

maybe I missed someting but is the number of action points you use on your vote public?

nope.

But it wouldn't hurt to be honest. :)

[RendeR]

You can put more than 1 on your vote Lathum, but you do that VIA PM with Alan. not publicly. So we never know for certain who has used how many votes on anyone.

[hoopsguy]

From what I recall Alan posting there is no summary post of total votes someone gets or a breakdown of who put "x" number of points. We just learn who dies, period, end of story.

[RendeR]

From what I recall Alan posting there is no summary post of total votes someone gets or a breakdown of who put "x" number of points. We just learn who dies, period, end of story.


Hrm....as I recall I owe you a few votes ;)

meh, you seem decent enough this game. You get a break today.:p

[Lathum]

nope.

But it wouldn't hurt to be honest. :)

well then why is Render claiming we will know someone put only 1 point towards a vote?

I'm confused

[Lathum]

nevermind, I think I got what he meant

[Neon_Chaos]

Vote Count:

Anxiety - Anxiety, Pass, Raiders, Ardent
Hoops - Barkeep, Lathum
Neon - Purdue, DaddyT
DT - Neon
Barkeep - ntndeacon

I'll probably end up moving my vote and using all my points for self-preservation purposes if I'm still a major candidate, sacrificing being able to use my ability tonight.

[RendeR]

You missed ymvote on Telle, NC, please be more thorough ;)

[Neon_Chaos]

Sorry.

Vote Count:

Anxiety - Anxiety, Pass, Raiders, Ardent
Hoops - Barkeep, Lathum
Neon - Purdue, DaddyT
DT - Neon
Barkeep - ntndeacon
Telle - Render

[Telle]

I'll join in and use 1AP to vote, dunno who I'm voting for yet.

I'll vote Telle. She's always fairly well trusted. I don't recall her being a wolf much so I'm betting she's due.

VOTE TELLE

So I'm having a fairly busy day at work.. not really keeping up with the game. I'm slowly working my way through the thread and filling out my spreadsheet, and RendeR pops on instant messenger and says "I love you =)". Awe.. how sweet. What a wonderful husband I have..

And then I get down to THIS post.

"Oh no, of course I don't have an ulterior motive.. I just wanted to be sweet and tell you how much you mean to me." Bullshit :)

[RendeR]

But I DO love you darling =)

[RendeR]

Gues its a good thing I work nights ;)

[Telle]

Taking into account Barkeep's x5 vote on Hoops, I'll even things up..

VOTE ANXIETY

Just one vote from me, for those keeping track.

[Neon_Chaos]

Vote Count:

Anxiety - Anxiety, Pass, Raiders, Ardent, Telle
Hoops - Barkeep, Lathum
Neon - Purdue, DaddyT
DT - Neon
Barkeep - ntndeacon
Telle - Render

[Neon_Chaos]

You guys do know that Anxiety is moving his vote once he realizes that you're all piling on him, right?

[RendeR]

I have to admit something. I'm not a fan of rap, and especialy of those who just rip off other tunes to make their rap sound better, and while Fort Minor seems to do exactly that on every single song I've heard, I have to admit I enjoy the music itself, they put it together well.

The rap still sucks ass, but at least the tune is enjoyable.


Now back to your regularly scheduled werewolf game.

[Lathum]

I;m confused.

If we all have an action requiring 1 action point how can BK use all 5 votes on hoops?

[RendeR]

I;m confused.

If we all have an action requiring 1 action point how can BK use all 5 votes on hoops?


I thikn actions are optional, voting is not.

[Telle]

I;m confused.

If we all have an action requiring 1 action point how can BK use all 5 votes on hoops?

Can you choose to not do your action, maybe? Although I think the rules did state that you have three points that can be added towards votes or actions.. so that would indicate you could only use up to 4 on a vote.

[Telle]

You guys do know that Anxiety is moving his vote once he realizes that you're all piling on him, right?

Does it matter? It's Day 1, and we have to vote for somebody. Might as well be him. We could vote for you instead if you like :)

[Neon_Chaos]

Can you choose to not do your action, maybe? Although I think the rules did state that you have three points that can be added towards votes or actions.. so that would indicate you could only use up to 4 on a vote.

It seems you're correct, Telle. I missed that part completely, thanks for pointing it out.

[Neon_Chaos]

Does it matter? It's Day 1, and we have to vote for somebody. Might as well be him. We could vote for you instead if you like :)

Oh... :) By all means, then, pile on to Anxiety as you wish. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

neon...you're hardly a major candidate

[Barkeep49]

Vote Count:

Anxiety - Anxiety, Pass, Raiders, Ardent, Telle
Hoops - Barkeep, Lathum
Neon - Purdue, DaddyT
DT - Neon
Barkeep - ntndeacon
Telle - Render
This vote count is entirely misleading and is the exact reason why I think we should be stating how many points we're using. As hoops has pointed out he currently has 6 votes (my 5 plus Lathum's 1+?). Most of the Anxiety players have stated they're only using 1 point.

[Lathum]

This vote count is entirely misleading and is the exact reason why I think we should be stating how many points we're using. As hoops has pointed out he currently has 6 votes (my 5 plus Lathum's 1+?). Most of the Anxiety players have stated they're only using 1 point.

why are you pushing so hard for stating the number of action points we are using, it is completely unreliable.

[Neon_Chaos]

This vote count is entirely misleading and is the exact reason why I think we should be stating how many points we're using. As hoops has pointed out he currently has 6 votes (my 5 plus Lathum's 1+?). Most of the Anxiety players have stated they're only using 1 point.

I agree, Barkeep. We should count the potential points that could be allotted into a vote, and how many points people said they would put in.

Too busy to go back and check on how many points people said they would put in, but i'm putting in the potentials, given 4 points per person. Maybe you can fill in the blanks.

(Declared votes / Potential votes)

Anxiety (?/20) - Anxiety (?), Pass (?), Raiders (?), Ardent (?), Telle (?)
Hoops (4/8) - Barkeep (4), Lathum (?)
Neon (?/8) - Purdue (?), DaddyT (?)
DT (1/4) - Neon (1)
Barkeep (?/4) - ntndeacon (?)
Telle (?/4) - Render (?)

[Schmidty]

Man, I just woke up. Looks like I have some stuff to catch up with.

[Neon_Chaos]

why are you pushing so hard for stating the number of action points we are using, it is completely unreliable.

As unreliable as it is, though, I think it would be better to have something for analysis, than nothing at all.

[Telle]

Barkeep put on five/four depending on how you read the rules.
DaddyTorgo, Passacaglia, and Lathum did not state how many votes.
Everyone else used one vote.

Yet to vote: path12, Racer, Chief Rum, St.Cronin, ArlingtonColt, Hoopsguy, Schmidty

[DaddyTorgo]

Barkeep put on five/four depending on how you read the rules.
DaddyTorgo, Passacaglia, and Lathum did not state how many votes.
Everyone else used one vote.

Yet to vote: path12, Racer, Chief Rum, St.Cronin, ArlingtonColt, Hoopsguy, Schmidty

i put one

[Lathum]

As unreliable as it is, though, I think it would be better to have something for analysis, than nothing at all.

Maybe I am inhererently mistrusting but I actualy think having nothing at all is better for now until we see how things play out after the first lynch

[Lathum]

Barkeep put on five/four depending on how you read the rules.
DaddyTorgo, Passacaglia, and Lathum did not state how many votes.
Everyone else CLAIMED THEY used one vote.

Yet to vote: path12, Racer, Chief Rum, St.Cronin, ArlingtonColt, Hoopsguy, Schmidty

fixed

[Telle]

fixed

Good point. I was going to put "stated they used one" but then that was repeating the phrasing in the previous sentence.. and, well, I didn't like that :)

[Abe Sargent]

Absent any other reasoning, I'm not a fan of the vote for yourself, and I've never heard of it used on Day 1.

VOTE ANXIETY
1 AP.

I'm not "using" it, I rolled dice and they come up 14. I can;t help that. It's not a normal self vote where I get pissed at the game and then vote myself. Would you have preferred me to reroll and then never say what happened? that wouldn't have been right.

And I do remember it being used once on day one, right Schmidty? ;)

[Abe Sargent]

Alright, I finished a short story and gotta go find out where I should submit it. I'll be back after.

[Schmidty]

I have to vote, so, in order to determine who my initial vote will fall on, I rolled a d20. I'd re-roll a 20. That means there is a 1 in 19 chance that I would vote for anybody, including myself.

I rolled a 14. Who is that?

Me. I rolled my frickin' self.

Well hell

Vote Anxiety

I feel like I'm being tricked, but:

VOTE ANXIETY

[ntndeacon]

That's ok Schmidty. I feel you are being tricked as well. I doubt voting either hoops or Anxiety off will help us any.

[Telle]

I feel like I'm being tricked, but:

VOTE ANXIETY

Hrrmmm.. you do have a point there. But then the question is he being good-tricky or evil-tricky?

[hoopsguy]

That's ok Schmidty. I feel you are being tricked as well. I doubt voting either hoops or Anxiety off will help us any.

I 100% agree with half of this statement, but I'm wondering what is the basis for this comment?

[ntndeacon]

I 100% agree with half of this statement, but I'm wondering what is the basis for this comment?

No real basis, hoops. I do believe that both of the first two people pushed are usually innocent. Plus I don't really see why Anxiety is being piled on. Or that Barkeep found it necc to put 5 on you.

[Barkeep49]

That's ok Schmidty. I feel you are being tricked as well. I doubt voting either hoops or Anxiety off will help us any.
Unvote Hoops

Anxiety was in and didn't express concern about his having so many votes. It's weird. I'm leaning in that direction but am going to hold off for the time being.

[Barkeep49]

No real basis, hoops. I do believe that both of the first two people pushed are usually innocent. Plus I don't really see why Anxiety is being piled on. Or that Barkeep found it necc to put 5 on you.
Gah. No real reason? Sheesh.

Well I've unvoted and I'll stay that way for the moment, though this puts hoops right back on my radar.

[Racer]

Hey guys, this is only the second game of werewolf I’ve ever played, but doesn’t splitting the vote six ways make it a lot easier for the Titans to manipulate? I might switch this vote later because I don't see much to go on right now, but for now:

Vote: Hoopsguy

[Passacaglia]

You guys do know that Anxiety is moving his vote once he realizes that you're all piling on him, right?

That's exactly why I voted for him -- to get him to move his vote. I'm not looking to kill him, or start a bandwagon -- I just want to get a vote out of him. The longer he waits, the more it will be self-preservation, but it is what it is.

[Lathum]

UNVOTE HOOPS
VOTE BARKEEP

if he really did commit 5 action points for his vote then he is either a bad guy and perhaps doesn't need action points or he is a villager who isn't very important.

[ntndeacon]

Gah. No real reason? Sheesh.

Well I've unvoted and I'll stay that way for the moment, though this puts hoops right back on my radar.

I haven't had time to get info on anyone yet, just like everyone else. It wasn't even the idea of hoops being on your radar that was distrirbing to me. It was pouring on the votes so others feel they have to throw in the leading candidate to stay up with you.
As for Anxiety, it seemed reaching to me to vote him after what at least seemedto be a whimsical day 1 vote.
So neither are really trusted, but comparatively they more trusted than those that voted for them.

[st.cronin]

Wow, strange day 1. I'm against revealing AP/votes, but I also think nobody should be using more than 1, especially on day 1. How can anybody possibly feel good about their day 1 vote?

VOTE BARKEEP49

[Abe Sargent]

Unvote Hoops

Anxiety was in and didn't express concern about his having so many votes. It's weird. I'm leaning in that direction but am going to hold off for the time being.

I directly responded to one vote and its comments. How is that not expressing concern? Do you want outrage? Me getting really pissed at the people around me? I am rarely that sort of WW player.

I am rarely warlike.

If you feel the need to vote off a fellow god on Day One, well, at least I'm no seer. Someone's gotta go. I hold no grudges if its me. I'd prefer it not to be me, but you won;t see me all red in the face.

[Schmidty]

I directly responded to one vote and its comments. How is that not expressing concern? Do you want outrage? Me getting really pissed at the people around me? I am rarely that sort of WW player.

I am rarely warlike.

If you feel the need to vote off a fellow god on Day One, well, at least I'm no seer. Someone's gotta go. I hold no grudges if its me. I'd prefer it not to be me, but you won;t see me all red in the face.

You shouldn't have voted for yourself, regardless of why.

It's like playing with a ouija board, and then being suprised and disappointed that you're being tormented by demons.

[Schmidty]

You shouldn't have voted for yourself, regardless of why.

It's like playing with a ouija board, and then being suprised and disappointed that you're being tormented by demons.

By the way, the ouija reference popped into my mind because last night's "Coast to Coast A.M." show was about demons and exorcisms. I get bored at night, and that dumb show entertains me. :)

[Abe Sargent]

You shouldn't have voted for yourself, regardless of why.

It's like playing with a ouija board, and then being suprised and disappointed that you're being tormented by demons.

No probs. I can reveal who I am if i need to, and everybody will feel silly. Just prefer not to give the wolves that info.

[RendeR]

I'm really not liking this piling on of anxiety, nor do I like any better the sudden leap onto hoops and barkeep. I haven't seen anything from any of them to really warrent the attention.

[Passacaglia]

I'm really not liking this piling on of anxiety, nor do I like any better the sudden leap onto hoops and barkeep. I haven't seen anything from any of them to really warrent the attention.

The thing is, you've seen even less from anyone else.

[hoopsguy]

At this point, with no one promising super-votes in my direction, I'll put out a semi-reasoned vote.

I didn't like the vote from Lathum earlier. I thought he was being opportunistic with his vote as a potential pile-on while stating it was to prevent an Anxiety run-away.

Other people that I would consider, for various reasons:
- Ardent: get the impression he is playing his cards very close to the vest so far. Friend or enemy?
- Neon/Barkeep: did not like the idea of mass reveal, felt that these were the two ringleaders

VOTE LATHUM (likely to be a single vote if I'm not in self-preservation mode)

[Lathum]

At this point, with no one promising super-votes in my direction, I'll put out a semi-reasoned vote.

I didn't like the vote from Lathum earlier. I thought he was being opportunistic with his vote as a potential pile-on while stating it was to prevent an Anxiety run-away.

Other people that I would consider, for various reasons:
- Ardent: get the impression he is playing his cards very close to the vest so far. Friend or enemy?
- Neon/Barkeep: did not like the idea of mass reveal, felt that these were the two ringleaders

VOTE LATHUM (likely to be a single vote if I'm not in self-preservation mode)

you know I unvoted you, right?

[Lathum]

I'm really not liking this piling on of anxiety, nor do I like any better the sudden leap onto hoops and barkeep. I haven't seen anything from any of them to really warrent the attention.

voting for yourself on day 1 doesn't raise some eyebrows?

[RendeR]

voting for yourself on day 1 doesn't raise some eyebrows?


not in the slightest, since he described exactly what he did, the at that he followed through on his random roll made me laugh, but its NOT a reason to vote him IMHO.

I don't trust him, but I don't have a reason yet to DIStrust him either.

[Lathum]

not in the slightest, since he described exactly what he did, the at that he followed through on his random roll made me laugh, but its NOT a reason to vote him IMHO.

I don't trust him, but I don't have a reason yet to DIStrust him either.

everything about this strikes me as odd.

and it is day 1, you really don't need a good reason to vote someone

[Barkeep49]

Wow, strange day 1. I'm against revealing AP/votes, but I also think nobody should be using more than 1, especially on day 1. How can anybody possibly feel good about their day 1 vote?

VOTE BARKEEP49
It's not that I feel good. It's that I would feel stupid having some action points left at the end of today.

[Barkeep49]

UNVOTE HOOPS
VOTE BARKEEP

if he really did commit 5 action points for his vote then he is either a bad guy and perhaps doesn't need action points or he is a villager who isn't very important.
Lathum, the rules make clear that the bad guys need APs as well in the BG example given. I understand the vote, but think you're misguided.

[Lathum]

Lathum, the rules make clear that the bad guys need APs as well in the BG example given. I understand the vote, but think you're misguided.

true, but in general the bad guys have a team dynamic in place which means perhaps you can do more with less while eliminating a good player day 1

[Barkeep49]

true, but in general the bad guys have a team dynamic in place which means perhaps you can do more with less while eliminating a good player day 1
I think it's interesting that I'm being accused of wasting my votes when I'm simply trying to maximize them.

[Barkeep49]

Strike votes and replace that with APs.

[st.cronin]

It's not that I feel good. It's that I would feel stupid having some action points left at the end of today.

Really? I would feel far stupider having voted out a villager than having APs left over.

[Lathum]

I think it's interesting that I'm being accused of wasting my votes when I'm simply trying to maximize them.

but why on day 1 when you are voting with the least amount of confidence would you want to maximize them?

And so early in the day to boot?

[Barkeep49]

Really? I would feel far stupider having voted out a villager than having APs left over.

Because I feel, especially with my voting heavily where others are not, that I am able to combat the D1 advantage the wolves have in coordination of votes.

but why on day 1 when you are voting with the least amount of confidence would you want to maximize them?

And so early in the day to boot?

I voted early to start discussion. It was not a locked in vote as evidenced by my un-vote. I am, however, evenly divded between putting my vote back there and voting Anxiety.

[Barkeep49]

Alan: Can we get confirmation about whether we learn how many total votes were placed on somebody at the end of the day or simply who died?

[Alan T]

Alan: Can we get confirmation about whether we learn how many total votes were placed on somebody at the end of the day or simply who died?


You are told whom votes for whom (which can be found in the thread anyways), and who the lynchee is. You do not find out how close it is or how many voting points each person spends or receives.

[Lathum]

Because I feel, especially with my voting heavily where others are not, that I am able to combat the D1 advantage the wolves have in coordination of votes.

c'mon, how often do the wolves coordinate day 1 votes?

if anything they spread it out.

[Alan T]

Can you choose to not do your action, maybe? Although I think the rules did state that you have three points that can be added towards votes or actions.. so that would indicate you could only use up to 4 on a vote.

This is correct. You have 5 total APs each day (unless your role says otherwise). You MUST use 1 AP on a vote for that day or be penalized. You have 1 AP reserved for an action (which is optional and does not have to be performed if you do not choose). The remaining 3 AP can be spent either on strengthening your vote or strengthening your Action, or just left unused.

Anyone who sends in a PM stating a vote of 5 AP will be assumed to be 4 AP on the vote and the 1 AP for the action left unused/wasted. Anyone who votes but does not send in a PM will be assumed to spend 1 AP on the vote and leaving 4 AP unused/wasted.

[Barkeep49]

c'mon, how often do the wolves coordinate day 1 votes?

if anything they spread it out.
They do it when one of their own is in jeopardy which happens about what one would expect to happen randomly and this is why we've had a non random amount of d1 bad guys being lynched.

[Lathum]

bah, a wolf gets the axe day 1 the other wolves cut him lose.

[Barkeep49]

bah, a wolf gets the axe day 1 the other wolves cut him lose.
Really? When's the last game a wolf was killed Day 1? And when did it happen the game before that? I think you're going to have to go far back to find one example and even farther to find a second.

[Lathum]

Really? When's the last game a wolf was killed Day 1? And when did it happen the game before that? I think you're going to have to go far back to find one example and even farther to find a second.

whats the point?

the wolves spread their vote out so one of them doesn't get killed, not so that they gang up on someone.

[Barkeep49]

whats the point?

the wolves spread their vote out so one of them doesn't get killed, not so that they gang up on someone.
That's my point. The wolves coordinate and make sure wolves don't get killed. A super vote combats that.

[st.cronin]

That's my point. The wolves coordinate and make sure wolves don't get killed. A super vote combats that.

And, I think Lathum's point is, "not if its on some random person for no real reason."

It would only work if you were voting for a wolf, which you concede you have no confidence that you are.

[Barkeep49]

And, I think Lathum's point is, "not if its on some random person for no real reason."

It would only work if you were voting for a wolf, which you concede you have no confidence that you are.
I think it creates pressure. Pressure creates results.

[Barkeep49]

And, I think Lathum's point is, "not if its on some random person for no real reason."

It would only work if you were voting for a wolf, which you concede you have no confidence that you are.
Oh and I do have confidence that you're not voting for a wolf :)

[Lathum]

And, I think Lathum's point is, "not if its on some random person for no real reason."

It would only work if you were voting for a wolf, which you concede you have no confidence that you are.

exactly, the only way you could vote so confidently is if you knew someones aligience. And the only way to know that is if you are a wolf.

[st.cronin]

I think it creates pressure. Pressure creates results.

Again, only if you're voting for a wolf. If you're voting for a villager it does the opposite.

[Barkeep49]

Again, only if you're voting for a wolf. If you're voting for a villager it does the opposite.
More than a single vote? I don't think so.

[ArlingtonColt]

anyone have a vote count at this point? It's feeling like a pretty standard random day 1 vote today.

I like Lathum's reasoning behind voting barkeep, but I'm not ready to pin my vote on him just yet.

[Lathum]

More than a single vote? I don't think so.

well when you insinuate you are going to use all 5 AP's on it...

[Barkeep49]

well when you insinuate you are going to use all 5 AP's on it...
I'm not insinuating, I'm stating that I am going to use 5 APs. And how does this action lead to less pressure on the wolves if I vote for a villager than if I vote with 1 AP?

[PurdueBrad]

Out of lack of other options, I'm going to keep my vote on Neon_Chaos mainly because of the mass reveal thing. I see what Anxiety tried to do and am watching it backfire, so I'll be curious to see if there is a late switch or not.