Werewolf CXXIV - Watchmen (Game Over, Wolves Win!, endpost:704)

[EagleFan]

Trying to do some number crunching.

If it's 6-3 now...

We take out a wolf tonight and subsequent night kill it will be 5-2 (unless we get the brutal and he takes out the 2 for 1 lover in that case it's 3-2).

One more wolf makes it probably 2-1 as we would be taking the brutal by getting one of those two.


If the jeff reveal is fake...

We take out a villager today which ends up making it 4-3. Once we take out the brutal we lose at that point.


If the wolves know that those roles are not in the game they may try to force end game with that play.

With that said, I would lean more towards sal/J23 as the wolves instead of jeff/DV.

[EagleFan]

I'll have to check in on my phone tonight to see how this plays out.

[EagleFan]

Here is another look at the final votes.

Day 1:
Autumn - 6 (PF 82, CR 95, ntn 100, DV 111, DT 154, EF 157)
- Known Good = DT
- Presumed Good = PF, CR
- Scanned Good = EF
- Unknown = DV
- Unattached Bad = NTN
EF - 4- (hoops 92, saldana 97, Lathum 104, Danny 112)
- Known Good = Lathum
- Scanned Good = Hoops, Danny
- Unknown = Saldana
Danny - 2 - (Autumn 117, Thomkal 123)
- Known Good = Autumn, Thomkal
hoopsguy - 1 - (jeff 89)
- Unknown = Jeff
Did not vote = J23

Day 2:
ntn - 6 - (DV 194, CR 197, J23 227, PF 238, saldana 241, Lathum 244)
- Known Good = Lathum
- Presumed Good = CR, PF
- Unknown = DV, J23, Saldana
saldana - 5 - (EF 195, jeff 199, Danny 223, hoops 232, DT 234)
- Known Good = DT
- Scanned Good = EF, Danny, Hoops
- Unknown = Jeff
Lathum - 1- (ntn 214)
- Unattached Bad = NTN

Day 3:
DT - 5- (DV 306, jeff 355, J23 360, saldana 363, EF 364)
- Scanned Good = EF
- Unknown = DV, Jeff, J23, Saldana
EF - 3- (hoops 313, CR 324, DT 345)
- Known Good = DT
- Presumed Good = CR
- Scanned Good = Hoops
CR - 1 - (Danny 326)
- Scanned Good = Danny
saldana - 1 - (PF 358)
- Presumed Good = PF

No way the wolves bunch all three votes on DT at that point. In hoops theory they are saving the cunning. Why? Why not gain trust by nailing the cunning. Especially when the seer outs himself and is presumed to be the night kill (since it seems that only PF knew about his chance to make a block).

[jeff061]

Day 3 was just a weird vote. We need to see who was or was not around at the deadline. I mean, Hoops aside, you have every single current suspect on DT that day.

[EagleFan]

Sorry, everything got me thinking.

ntn avoids me and sal like the plague on day two. Sal then votes me instead of voting ntn which could have saved him even more and ties me for the lead with him. Why would a wolf try to push the cunning into the lead at that point when it would do them no good at all?

hoops is a better player than that, he should be able to see all of that. Ask yourselves why he is conveniently overlooking all of that?

There are two posts that don't make sense to me. Two players posted consecutive posts with the same information. An attempt to signal the cultist? I know hoops was one of them but will have to find the other. It stood out because I don't remember seeing anything like that in previous games with people deciding to post the same information in back to back posts.

[jeff061]

And I didn't think of the Brutal. Bit of a risk gambling that the brutal will be picked, rather than just waiting out longer today and trying to steer the vote.

I made it 2 are good or 2 are bad. I think if I was a wolf I'd be wanting to keep that group of 4 murky. If a wolf or villager gets voted out tonight, then we still have 3 possibilities. That's no longer the case.

[saldana]

And now I feel like an idiot for reading that wrong. Hopefully not held against me. Sure it will be.

lol..yeah...you are saying you are Laurie and you didnt know the rules of your own role??!!!!!

What!!!!

unvote EF
vote Jeff

[jeff061]

Well it's more of our role than my role. Different conditions on who dies and whether Manhattan is alive for which person and who I can scan for in what scenario.

I know it's not rocket science, but I did misread it.

[hoopsguy]

EF, you keep saying "my theory" - I'm hardly the only person considering that you may be the cunning wolf. If you are trying to get me to press the issue, you're doing a good job of it by playing it this way.

Jeff, I didn't put the suspect there in that post - that is how they voted. Unless I'm somehow posting as them, that one is not on me :)

[jeff061]

By suspect I mean the 4 under consideration today and potentially you/eagle as cunning. Out of those 6 all but you voted for DT.

Really meant to use it as an example of a crazy day, all the votes coming in after a Chief reveal.

[jeff061]

For what's it's worth, with everyone here focusing on those four and Saldana makes a point of focusing and voting on Eagle? My speculation is it's a move meant to improve Eagle's standing if Saldana gets lynched. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

[saldana]

Well it's more of our role than my role. Different conditions on who dies and whether Manhattan is alive for which person and who I can scan for in what scenario.

I know it's not rocket science, but I did misread it.

so you are trying to say that you got both roles in your PM?

[saldana]

For what's it's worth, with everyone here focusing on those four and Saldana makes a point of focusing and voting on Eagle? My speculation is it's a move meant to improve Eagle's standing if Saldana gets lynched. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

i have been focusing on eagle for 4 days...my behavior hasnt changed at all.

[jeff061]

I'm trying to say when forming a strategy and understanding our role you view it as one. I'm just saying there are a lot of and, if's and or's and I misread it.

As far as the PM question. I'd love to answer, but I thought spelling out PMs was frowned upon? Not sure why it's relevant anyways.

You are really crashing after this aren't you?

[PackerFanatic]

UNVOTE JEFF061
VOTE J23

I probably won't be around at deadline, which is unfortunate depending on how things turn out tonight...

[J23]

Forgot to do this earlier. With Manhattan alive atm, it's a lot better to be wrong lynching DV than Jeff if this reveal is somehow legit.

Vote Darth

[J23]

Well, with Manhattan voting for me, I guess I have to reveal. I'm Silk Spectre. The good news is that it's a provable role, unlike EF's claim. The bad news is that it will waste tonight's lynch to do so. If I'm the leading vote getter by 1 vote, there will be no lynch, I'll be revealed and lose the power.

I'd much prefer to kill a wolf tonight rather than wasting the lynch to add me to the COT at this point.

[Chief Rum]

Forgot to do this earlier. With Manhattan alive atm, it's a lot better to be wrong lynching DV than Jeff if this reveal is somehow legit.

Vote Darth

Agreed. If we go with testing the lovers, we need to lynch DV, not Jeff. Jeff takes out DV no matter what, but DV does not take out Jeff if PF is alive (which he is and will be at the deadline tonight).

[PackerFanatic]

Well damn it...somebody is lying out there...all this revealing going on is making my head spin

[Chief Rum]

J23, you only have one vote. Don't you think it's a little soon to be revealing for that?

I definitely think someone's lying. I don't think The Jackal would have both Silk Spectres in the game.

[hoopsguy]

Yep, strategy seems to be flood the game with fake reveals in order to get through today.

CR, I'm willing to listen to your gut on what roles are more/less likely for this game because I'm not well versed in this universe.

[J23]

J23, you only have one vote. Don't you think it's a little soon to be revealing for that?

I definitely think someone's lying. I don't think The Jackal would have both Silk Spectres in the game.

I'm really not worried about being nightkilled with the Seer and Manhattan both still alive. I don't expect to be around much this evening, if at all, so I didn't see a downside to revealing really.

[Chief Rum]

Yep, strategy seems to be flood the game with fake reveals in order to get through today.

CR, I'm willing to listen to your gut on what roles are more/less likely for this game because I'm not well versed in this universe.

Well, I would be lying if I said I was really versed in it. I haven't read the comic. I saw the movie, and I followed along in the Watchmen threads to see where the breaks from the comic happened, and the general reaction of the hardcore comic book fans. By and large, the movie did a fair job of representing the comic, from what I recall. The main characters in the movie were The Comedian, Ozymandias, Night Owl II, Silk Spectre II, Dr. Manhattan and Rorschach.

Those are the six I would be surprised if the Jackal, presumeably a dyed-in-the-wool Watchmen fan, did not include.

Silk Spectre I is in the movie as well, but her character is really more of an offshoot to understanding some of the other main characters' histories.

As such, and once again, this is all rather meta-gamey, but I am more inclined to buy jeff's reveal over J23's right now.

Keep in mind, for all we know, both Silk Spectres could indeed be in the game.

[hoopsguy]

I've deliberately not read up on it because I may end up reading Watchmen when this is over. Have heard a lot of good stuff about it and I read a ton of comics when I was younger, but almost exclusively Marvel (see the two games I ran :) ).

Anyway, I feel like that is crimping my style a bit with sifting through the reveals, but given that we've had a couple of vanilla villager and I know I'm one as well I'm skeptical of everyone under pressure having roles.

But we're going to need to figure out where we want to go today or the wolves will be in good position to take the vote from us late. I'm trying not to force the action since there are others that are more cleared than me ... just lay out data for people to interpret and throw a hissy fit if I think stuff is clearly wrong ... you know, like voting for you (Chief Rum) yesterday.

[jeff061]

Packer are you going to be around or not? I need you to know something, but I don't really want to drop it now :D.

[PackerFanatic]

I will be around for another hour to hour and a half, after that I will be out past deadline.

[Chief Rum]

I think we should choose between lynching DV and J23. I would prefer to lynch J23 over DV, because I actually lean toward jeff's reveal being correct, and not so much on J23.

The problem is, if we lynch J23, we give the wolves a great dilemma in choosing between the duke (and probably the game's most powerful player), the seer and taking out two at once (killing jeff).

So I would take out DV, and hope jeff's lying. If he's not, we have another cleared player anyway. I would assume the wolves will take me out then, although the cunning presence has probably lessened my value somewhat. But it's still probably greater at this point than PF with his duke ability being his only remaining ability (or so he's told us ;) ).

[Chief Rum]

In fact, I'll put my money where my mouth is.

VOTE DARTH VILUS

[hoopsguy]

Packer, I would encourage you to draft up a conditional duke order if you are not going to be around at the deadline.

Sure, it could end up screwing us but I'm worried that we don't have enough clarity in our voting block to subvert the wolves. So your power can make sure it is a villager decision today.

Keep it to yourself, make it conditional so if we do reach same conclusion you don't burn it needlessly, and don't say where you are going because that kills vote discussion in the thread.

Just my two cents on how you might maximize your role. Take it for whatever you feel it is worth.

[The Jackal]

Don't be surprised if results aren't up until close to midnight, especially if there are no vote counts! But since it's a long night phase.. More suspense!

[jeff061]

Packer, I would encourage you to draft up a conditional duke order if you are not going to be around at the deadline.

I agree. So here is what I was going to say. Important for everyone if Packer doesn't send an order.

Darth is Laurie. I am Daniel. I swapped that during my reveal. I did this simply to draw the wolves to me during a night kill. Though at the time I was planning more for the future because I thought Manhattan had to be dead.

So basically. Please don't kill Darth :D.

[The Jackal]

I'll do everything I can to get it close to on time though.

[Chief Rum]

I agree. So here is what I was going to say. Important for everyone if Packer doesn't send an order.

Darth is Laurie. I am Daniel. I swapped that during my reveal. I did this simply to draw the wolves to me during a night kill. Though at the time I was planning more for the future because I thought Manhattan had to be dead.

So basically. Please don't kill Darth :D.

At first, I was thinking, "Damn, man, you're killing us!" :)

My first thought was that you were trying to get us to kill the wrong person in the couple to accidentally kill both, as wolves. Then my brain officially kicked in and noted, well, if they were wolves, they aren't the couple, so that can't happen. ;)

Okay, I'll switch then. You had a good idea in doing the switch; sorry if we end up blowing that up.

Jeff, if you're on the up and up and we lynch you, my apologies in advance. I will no doubt be joining you in the "killed" thread Monday morning.

UNVOTE DATH VILUS
VOTE JEFF61

[jeff061]

Well I am quite confident they scanned one of us either last night or the night before. Were delayed because of you. And they started the roll on Darth, not the good guys :)

Forgot to do this earlier. With Manhattan alive atm, it's a lot better to be wrong lynching DV than Jeff if this reveal is somehow legit.

Vote Darth

Heh, thats' what you get when they were discussing my reveal vrs their scan results.

[EagleFan]

At first, I was thinking, "Damn, man, you're killing us!" :)

My first thought was that you were trying to get us to kill the wrong person in the couple to accidentally kill both, as wolves. Then my brain officially kicked in and noted, well, if they were wolves, they aren't the couple, so that can't happen. ;)

Okay, I'll switch then. You had a good idea in doing the switch; sorry if we end up blowing that up.

Jeff, if you're on the up and up and we lynch you, my apologies in advance. I will no doubt be joining you in the "killed" thread Monday morning.

UNVOTE DATH VILUS
VOTE JEFF61

So you believe his change on the reveal but then vote for him? At this point I would guess that saldana is the brutal and J23 is one of the other wolves trying to steer us towards saldana for the two for one brutal.

[EagleFan]

unvote saldana

[EagleFan]

Crap, or with my theory jeff could be the brutal tryng to do the same thing, steer us to him.

My head is going to explode soon...

[EagleFan]

I must say this is gettnig rather interesting.

[jeff061]

So you believe his change on the reveal but then vote for him? At this point I would guess that saldana is the brutal and J23 is one of the other wolves trying to steer us towards saldana for the two for one brutal.

Him, which adds a dilemma. I think it's pretty important we don't take the brutal tonight, as he can attack Darth.

Lynching the brutal may be disastrous. Takes out 2 villagers with him then a 3rd tonight. Something to keep in mind and makes EF's trustworthiness a more immediate factor.

[jeff061]

Crap, or with my theory jeff could be the brutal tryng to do the same thing, steer us to him.

My head is going to explode soon...

Yeah, except if that was the case I would have just directed people at me from the beginning :).

[EagleFan]

Unfortunately I don't have much more time before heading out.

Thinking out loud:

If we lynch DV we are sitting at 4-3 after the night kill if jeff is telling the truth. We lose as soon as we lynch the brutal unless we lynch the brutal last.

If we lynch DV and jeff is lying we are sitting either 5-2 or 4-2 (depending on brutal) after the night kill and we then get jeff to make it 3-1 and we have one shot at getting the cunning.

If we can get J23 one vote ahead at the deadline and he is lying we are in the same position as the lynch DV with jeff lying approach.

If he survives and is revealed we are 5-3 after the night kill and we go through the jeff/DV lynch and get to a 2-1 game with the last vote being for all the marbles.

If he is lynched because of funny business we are at 4-3 after the night kill and need to get the brutal last.


I think the best percentage would be if we could get J23 to be up by one vote at the deadline but that is a risky proposition as someone could try to manipulate a late tie (though if we set it up now we can make it easy to see who is screwing around at the end).

[Chief Rum]

So you believe his change on the reveal but then vote for him? At this point I would guess that saldana is the brutal and J23 is one of the other wolves trying to steer us towards saldana for the two for one brutal.

EF, I want to vote J23, because I think we might get a wolf there.

But with the cat out of the bag with jeff-Darth (if jeff's telling the truth), the wolves will have a way of killing both of them at once if we don't do it first to save one. That's why I am voting jeff. By us lynching jeff, Darth (with Dr. Manhattan still alive) will be free of being linked to jeff in death, and will also be a cleared player. If we don't lynch jeff, the wolves nightkill Darth and both he and Jeff go tonight.

And, yes, I do think the wolves would go for the duo kill instead of killing me--my scans help, but with us presuming the cunning is out there, I'm not as effective as I could be.

Of course, if it turns out jeff and Darth are actually wolves, we will instead lynch a wolf and then proceed to lynch the other one on Monday.

But this isn't open and shut. It's just the way I would go. I think as long as we make sure it's jeff and J23 we're looking at, we'll do something that benefits the village in the long run.

[EagleFan]

Yeah, except if that was the case I would have just directed people at me from the beginning :).

That is what you would have been doing with your reveal but you would have gotten a villager lynched first before we came after you by that reveal.

[Chief Rum]

Him, which adds a dilemma. I think it's pretty important we don't take the brutal tonight, as he can attack Darth.

Lynching the brutal may be disastrous. Takes out 2 villagers with him then a 3rd tonight. Something to keep in mind and makes EF's trustworthiness a more immediate factor.

Wow, that's a really great point. J23's reveal seemed oddly timed. I'll bet he is the brutal.

I really think we need to vote Jeff and get a cleared DV for Monday's vote.

[jeff061]

So probably my last post for a bit, I hope. Something to chew on.

My trust feeling on Eagle is pretty low. I personally feel he is trying to steer the vote to the brutal. Based on the fact that Eagle is unvoting and steering his people away from Saldana and to presumably J2D(that or potentially an innocent)......

I'm keeping my vote on Saldana.

This is my current layout.
J2D: Brutal
Eagle: Cunning
Saldana: Other type of wolf

[jeff061]

EF, I want to vote J23, because I think we might get a wolf there.


And, yes, I do think the wolves would go for the duo kill instead of killing me--my scans help, but with us presuming the cunning is out there, I'm not as effective as I could be.


Well Darth would presumably be guarded. I think they'd know this and go for you.

[jeff061]

Then EF goes and posts before I could and changes things up :).

I know J2d and Saldana are wolves.

God damn eagle's got me all scatter brained though.

[jeff061]

No actually, EF's post seems to go along with my thinking and I agree with Chief. Like I said...scattered.


J2D: Brutal
Eagle: Cunning
Saldana: Other type of wolf

[EagleFan]

Unfortunately I don't have much more time before heading out.

Thinking out loud:

If we lynch DV we are sitting at 4-3 after the night kill if jeff is telling the truth. We lose as soon as we lynch the brutal unless we lynch the brutal last.

If we lynch DV and jeff is lying we are sitting either 5-2 or 4-2 (depending on brutal) after the night kill and we then get jeff to make it 3-1 and we have one shot at getting the cunning.

If we can get J23 one vote ahead at the deadline and he is lying we are in the same position as the lynch DV with jeff lying approach.

If he survives and is revealed we are 5-3 after the night kill and we go through the jeff/DV lynch and get to a 2-1 game with the last vote being for all the marbles.

If he is lynched because of funny business we are at 4-3 after the night kill and need to get the brutal last.


I think the best percentage would be if we could get J23 to be up by one vote at the deadline but that is a risky proposition as someone could try to manipulate a late tie (though if we set it up now we can make it easy to see who is screwing around at the end).

Crap, I was including the brutal aspect into the J23 lynch as a wolf theory but forgot about the 2 for 1 brutal now with jeff/DV. If we had just stuck with going after one of either sal of J23 after jeff's reveal without forcing his hand to reveal again (if he is not lying) then we would have been in a better position.

[EagleFan]

No actually, EF's post seems to go along with my thinking and I agree with Chief. Like I said...scattered.


J2D: Brutal
Eagle: Cunning
Saldana: Other type of wolf

Very wrong about me, and now making me wonder about you.

[jeff061]

Very wrong about me, and now making me wonder about you.


Well christ man, I've been pointing the cunning finger at you and Hoops for days. This isn't something new :).

But at this point I'd about bet money on that lineup.

[EagleFan]

Well christ man, I've been pointing the cunning finger at you and Hoops for days. This isn't something new :).

But at this point I'd about bet money on that lineup.

I'll bet the house against your lineup.

I would say hoops is the cunning at this point, but not willing to bet on that one yet.

[jeff061]

I am going to go as far as saying they specifically picked that role for J2D so they could make a reason to vote him.

Honestly, I am aware of why Chief wants to vote me and I was aware that my logic was dooming me. My logic was solid as is Chief's.

But at this point I am VERY certain Saldana is the right call for tonight.

J2D: Brutal
Eagle: Cunning
Saldana: Other type of wolfI'd be amazed if this doesn't pan out.

[EagleFan]

Whatever happens it's been fun. Might as well go with what I have been trying. You guys can take it from there. If you are going to lynch me you might as well do it now so we can lose the game sooner instead of later.


vote saldana

[PackerFanatic]

UNVOTE J23
VOTE SALDANA

[Chief Rum]

Right, Darth should be protected. Okay, I am less concerned about leaving jeff/Darth untested through tonight, so long as PF is paying attention (and it looks like he is; he just posted).

I am also leaning toward jeff talling the truth. I'll be honest, I would be shocked if jeff is a wolf. My read on him all game has been good, and although I'm no hoops, I'm not usually so off either.

Why does that matter? Consider the roles then for the village (calling BS on J23 at the moment): seer, BG, duke with BG inheritance powers and lovers (at least). We had a fake seer and a cultist, which I'll call a draw. Point is, though, that's a lot roled villagers with some power. As such, I just can't see the wolves having just two, which had been my thinking from my night time post. They must have three wolves, and for sure, one of the three I already scanned is a cunning wolf, because there aren't enough uncleareds, otherwise.

Going with that, even though my vibe leans more toward villager now, I have to agree that saldana is definite possibility as a wolf.

He does seem to be the forgotten man here, and J23 does seem to be drawing attention away and toward himself.

UNVOTE JEFF61
VOTE SALDANA

[Chief Rum]

I am going to go as far as saying they specifically picked that role for J2D so they could make a reason to vote him.

Honestly, I am aware of why Chief wants to vote me and I was aware that my logic was dooming me. My logic was solid as is Chief's.

But at this point I am VERY certain Saldana is the right call for tonight.

J2D: Brutal
Eagle: Cunning
Saldana: Other type of wolfI'd be amazed if this doesn't pan out.

I agree with your lineup here, jeff, except I don't know about Eagle as the cunning yet. I would pick him right now with a gun to my head, but if we don't get him tonight, I think we should keep an open mind to hoops or Danny (less likely, IMO) being the cunning.

[jeff061]

Yeah one day at a time...though Eagle's push away from Saldana and toward J2D today is kind of my linchpin when it comes to identifying the brutal though.

[Danny]

I'm home now, you guys made a lot of posts for me to catch up on.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah one day at a time...though Eagle's push away from Saldana and toward J2D today is kind of my linchpin when it comes to identifying the brutal though.

I can definitely see it. His early behavior suggests the possibility, too.

BTW, it's J23, not J2D. ;)

[Danny]

Looks pretty clear we are lynching Saldana. I agree with this move. I've had a good read on Jeff all game and I find it more likely the lovers are in the game than the 2nd silk spectre (or EF's role for that matter). I also got some desperation from reading J23's posts today. Though maybe that intentional because he is the brutal?

The only other possible move would be to follow what Chief said and lynch Jeff making sure the wolves don't get a double kill. Lynching anyone else would be a terrible play. That said, I think it's more likely we find a wolf with Saldana

[Danny]

J2D? Sounds like a star wars robot

[jeff061]

I swear every time I type out his name my brain says J2D for some reason, then I check it and make the correction. Guess I forgot that time.

[Danny]

I'm going to work out now. I'll check in after and before I leave for bowling to make sure nothing eventful has happened.

[saldana]

again, not sure exactly what i have done to make anyone think i am a wolf...i have done nothing but provide analysis that no one has been able to refute, and get "saved" by a known villager.

is my voting record great, no, but neither are alot of other people that are "cleared"

im a vanilla villager, plain and simple.

[J23]

Probably academic at this point, but moving off Darth in case the lovers reveal is legit.

unvote Darth
vote Saldana

[hoopsguy]

I'll go ahead and put a vote on Saldana as well, with the expectation that PF may end up doing something different with the vote later.

VOTE SALDANA

[Danny]

About to get ready to leave. Fingers crossed*

[Darth Vilus]

SORRY!!! I was supposed to be home two hours ago but my asshole bosses made me stay. So I've got to catch up real quick

[Danny]

SORRY!!! I was supposed to be home two hours ago but my asshole bosses made me stay. So I've got to catch up real quick

Better be real quick, we got business to take care of tonight. Dad has to work late so we are on our own. Got to bring our A game.

[Darth Vilus]

Aww crap really? Oh well, we'll have to both shoot 700 to make sure.

Vote Saldana

[hoopsguy]

DV, Jeff shared some info about you - care to confirm/deny?

[Darth Vilus]

Yes, I am indeed the hot chick. Call me Laurie guys :-)

[Darth Vilus]

Silk Spectree II

[Darth Vilus]

*Spectre

[Darth Vilus]

heading out now, I'll catch you guys when i get back. Good luck

[saldana]

is the whole damn village on me?

[hoopsguy]

Kind of appears that way, but only DV and I are around for discussion at this hour on Friday night.

[Chief Rum]

well, I just checked in. So i am here. I'm still at work. Sucks.

[The Jackal]

So Saldana by a landslide it looks like?

[saldana]

yup

[The Jackal]

Another day sees a hunk of reveals, and no one is truly sure who they can believe. At the end of the day, you decide upon a candidate who has just barely escaped the lynch before.

Saldana approaches the guillotine, coughing and sputtering. He smiles wickedly as he is set into the device, rasping out some final words as his head is removed,

"Die, Minutemen! Curse you all!"

saldana was Moloch the Mystic!

[The Jackal]

Enjoy your weekend folks, hope you are enjoying the game, I sure am. Night actions due Monday 930 am est.

[Chief Rum]

Awesome! Good call, jeff61!

[PackerFanatic]

Huzzah! Glad we got one :)

[EagleFan]

If you would have listened to me a couple days ago... :)

[EagleFan]

Yeah one day at a time...though Eagle's push away from Saldana and toward J2D today is kind of my linchpin when it comes to identifying the brutal though.

Where exactly did I push away from saldana? I have been saying him for days now.

[Danny]

Good news with the lynch. Bad news is Darth and I bowled poorly and we lost 3 of 4 games.

[Darth Vilus]

Yup yup, it wasn't in the cards for us tonight

[jeff061]

Where exactly did I push away from saldana? I have been saying him for days now.

The second half of yesterday. You weren't pushing away to save Saldana, that's not my point. You were pushing away to lynch J23 the brutal. Anyways, plenty of time to discuss.

J23=Brutal. As sure of that as I was Saldana. And still pretty sure Eagle's cunning.

[jeff061]

And Lathum = Least valuable player for this game :D.

[EagleFan]

The second half of yesterday. You weren't pushing away to save Saldana, that's not my point. You were pushing away to lynch J23 the brutal. Anyways, plenty of time to discuss.

J23=Brutal. As sure of that as I was Saldana. And still pretty sure Eagle's cunning.

Made no push on j23 yesterday. All I did was present possibilities. We lose if we go by your list and the wolves win. There is one scenario where I can guarantee a victory for us but first two things need to happen. I am not going to say what they are at this time, however, as it does us no good to tip our hand during this time.

[hoopsguy]

All of the analysis over the weekend doesn't really help too much. The wolves are going to have to make some interesting decisions and that will likely provide us with some clarity for the next day phase.

And I'm a guy that LOVES talking about this stuff, but at this point I don't see the point in it. We run the risk of providing the wolves with greater clarity for their night actions by excess discussion today. I just hope that everyone is ready for a good day of discussion on Monday.

[Lathum]

And Lathum = Least valuable player for this game :D.

yeah, I messed that up.

[Chief Rum]

All of the analysis over the weekend doesn't really help too much. The wolves are going to have to make some interesting decisions and that will likely provide us with some clarity for the next day phase.

And I'm a guy that LOVES talking about this stuff, but at this point I don't see the point in it. We run the risk of providing the wolves with greater clarity for their night actions by excess discussion today. I just hope that everyone is ready for a good day of discussion on Monday.

Exactly. This is one of the reasons I don't like to have night phases last a whole weekend (of course, I usually run one deadline games anyway, but you get the point...).

[Danny]

Vote Steelers

Go Packers!

[EagleFan]

Vote Steelers

Go Packers!

+1

[Darth Vilus]

Prince Akeem (http://www.operationsports.com/name/nm0000552/): Sir, did you happen to catch the professional football contest on television last night?
Cleo McDowell (http://www.operationsports.com/name/nm0025309/): No, I didn't.
Prince Akeem (http://www.operationsports.com/name/nm0000552/): Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory.
Cleo McDowell (http://www.operationsports.com/name/nm0025309/): Son.
Prince Akeem (http://www.operationsports.com/name/nm0000552/): Yes?
Cleo McDowell (http://www.operationsports.com/name/nm0025309/): If you want to keep working here, stay off the drugs.
Prince Akeem (http://www.operationsports.com/name/nm0000552/): Yes

[The Jackal]

You wake up and once more find all of your numbers intact. Divine providence? Luck? Or something sinister?

Day five begins!

[jeff061]

Either smart bodyguard play or someone outsmarted themselves.

[EagleFan]

Wolves party too much for the Super Bowl and not get an attack in?

[EagleFan]

They could be playing a numbers game but I'll wait to see if anything special happened this morning before going into that.

[hoopsguy]

I'm going to go back through some Saldana posts now, but one thing that I did see is that Saldana was pretty eager to go after EF for his role reveal.

This is nudging me a little closer to trusting EF. Not quite there yet, but closer than I was before the lynch on Friday.

[jeff061]

I'm waiting for Chief's reveal, expecting confirmation on me/Darth or J23. For cunning I'm about 70% on Eagle. 20% on Hoops. 10% on Danny.

[hoopsguy]

Day 2: <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset;"> Originally Posted by The Jackal http://operationsports.com/fofc/images/styles/sideline/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?p=2418802#post2418802)
ntn - 6 - (DV 194, CR 197, J23 227, PF 238, saldana 241, Lathum 244)
saldana - 5 - (EF 195, jeff 199, Danny 223, hoops 232, DT 234)
Lathum - 1- (ntn 214)
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Day 2 Saldana vote - he was saved by villagers, as has been previously pointed out by Chief. But that also suggests that they were either willing to discard him on D2 or that they were already locked earlier.

Even if we think J23 is the brutal, I think we are at the point where we are voting for him today. DV has a vouch from Jeff, and Jeff has a good vote on the Saldana vote to help generate additional trust.

Will wait to see what Chief Rum has for results today, but J23 seems like the vote today.

[hoopsguy]

I'm waiting for Chief's reveal, expecting confirmation on me/Darth or J23. For cunning I'm about 70% on Eagle. 20% on Hoops. 10% on Danny.

I would move those percentages to include the possibility that all 3 of us are good and that the cunning has not been scanned. I don't know how much you should move the numbers, but it should be at least a 1% chance.

[jeff061]

Even if we think J23 is the brutal, I think we are at the point where we are voting for him today. DV has a vouch from Jeff, and Jeff has a good vote on the Saldana vote to help generate additional trust.

I disagree with that completely. We take out Brutal they take 3 out before tomorrow. We need to get cunning now.

I would move those percentages to include the possibility that all 3 of us are good and that the cunning has not been scanned. I don't know how much you should move the numbers, but it should be at least a 1% chance.

Who's left to be scanned? Are you including me and Darth?

[jeff061]

As a side note, quite honestly I could care less about the voting patterns the first few days. Friday and today is crunch time and is where the important info is. First few days it's just worthless information, Wolves just generating confusion without much pressure.

Pressure's on now and they need to affect an outcome, not just confuse. This is real information. This included your first few posts so far today hoops ;).

[hoopsguy]

Jeff, there is a possibility that there is only one wolf left - that Ozy has cunning/brutal to go with his other powers.

I'm up for other candidates than J23, but the numbers strongly suggest he is a wolf and we have varying degrees of trust for most of the remaining players in the game. I would take the wolf in hand with the potential for ending the game if it was my call.

[jeff061]

True on the unknown powers, overlooked that. Going to wait for Chief.

[EagleFan]

Putting this out as a place holder, subject to change is anything dramatic happened last night.

vote J23

[EagleFan]

Kind of quiet in here this morning. I'll check back in here when I can, but will be tied up most of the afternoon (unless meetings change). Will probably be online for a while tonight (need to run another NFL WC game for that dynasty thread but will be in and out of this thread as well).

[hoopsguy]

I know Chief's work schedule means that his time @ FOFC can be a little bit erratic, but obviously a lot of us are waiting to see what results he might be able to share.

[hoopsguy]

OK, I'm getting bored waiting for Chief to check in. Not blaming him, as I know what his work schedule can be like but we still have a game to play today even if he doesn't arrive.

I'll revisit this if new information emerges, but for now,
VOTE J23

[hoopsguy]

Also hoping PF shows up to say if he had a role in the "no kill" last night.

[jeff061]

Still questioning logic of killing J23 tonight.

What are people's thoughts in a potential conversion power for Ozy?

[Chief Rum]

Hey everyone, sorry for the wait. I unfortunately can't use an excuse; I am off of work today for work reasons (yeah, try to figure that out, company's trying to give out these "days off" in lieu of laying people off, ugh...). I was running some scans on my computer over night and they weren't finished when I got up, so I just read a book for a bit until they finished.

Frankly, I assumed I would be dead here, so didn't rush back.

Okay, now's the news you have been waiting for: J23 is a wolf.

VOTE J23

[Chief Rum]

As for the problem of killing the brutal, which, presumably, J23 is, the issue there is that no matter what we do, I find it unlikely we can save Darth. He was probably protected last night by PF, which means he can't be protected tonight. So even if we stay away from J23 and his brutal power in the lynch, we're still looking at losing Darth and jeff at once with a night kill.

[Chief Rum]

Still questioning logic of killing J23 tonight.

What are people's thoughts in a potential conversion power for Ozy?

There is nothing in the rules about that. Not saying it then can't exist, but I would imagine any unknown powers wouldn't be of the game-changing variety like that.

For instance, PF's unknown power seems to have been to inherit the BG's powers. Well, we knew the BG's powers were in the game; the only thing we didn't know was that they could transfer.

[jeff061]

So it comes down to do we lynch J23 tonight and likely be short by 3 villagers tomorrow. Everyone seems to be siding with this line of thinking.

So tomorrow we'll most likely have:
Packer
Danny
Eagle
Hoops
Chief

Say, and I'm only picking this at random, we Lynch Eagle tomorrow

Then left with the following for a 2nd try:
Packer
Danny
Hoops

So 2 tries to find the remaining. People confident in that? I'm leaning towards being ok with hit. Mostly becuase I'm more and more torn on Hoops and Eagle.

[hoopsguy]

Still questioning logic of killing J23 tonight.

What are people's thoughts in a potential conversion power for Ozy?

I'm pretty sure our moderator has stated that conversions are not part of this game. Can go hunting in thread to confirm it.

[jeff061]

There is nothing in the rules about that. Not saying it then can't exist, but I would imagine any unknown powers wouldn't be of the game-changing variety like that.

For instance, PF's unknown power seems to have been to inherit the BG's powers. Well, we knew the BG's powers were in the game; the only thing we didn't know was that they could transfer.


Precisely the kind of feedback I was looking for, I'll take your word on that.

[hoopsguy]

(There are no conversions in this game, the Cultist merely wins with the wolves, should he be in the game)

There it is, in ugly purple font :)

[jeff061]

As for the problem of killing the brutal, which, presumably, J23 is, the issue there is that no matter what we do, I find it unlikely we can save Darth. He was probably protected last night by PF, which means he can't be protected tonight. So even if we stay away from J23 and his brutal power in the lynch, we're still looking at losing Darth and jeff at once with a night kill.


Well not matter what I and Darth are likely dead tonight. Pending anything unexpected from Packer. Only question is if we lose a third as well, which is what killed the brutal would do.

Brutal kills Darth and I, then a third lost to night kill. Alternative being Darth and I for the night kill and nothing else.

[Chief Rum]

So it comes down to do we lynch J23 tonight and likely be short by 3 villagers tomorrow. Everyone seems to be siding with this line of thinking.

So tomorrow we'll most likely have:
Packer
Danny
Eagle
Hoops
Chief

Say, and I'm only picking this at random, we Lynch Eagle tomorrow

Then left with the following for a 2nd try:
Packer
Danny
Hoops

So 2 tries to find the remaining. People confident in that? I'm leaning towards being ok with hit. Mostly becuase I'm more and more torn on Hoops and Eagle.

Math in my head has us at 6-2 today. If we kill J23 today and he takes Darth and then you with Darth, that puts us at 4-1. Then if the wolves get their nightkill, 3-1 going into tomorrow.

So tomorrow will actually be the only chance.

[Chief Rum]

If that happens, it will probably come down to Eagle versus hoops.

I am actually leaning toward making that discussion happen today. Let me crunch the numbers...

[Chief Rum]

If we lynch EF or hoops today and whichever one we lynch is a villager, then we go to 5-2. Then the wolves kill Darth and jeff, and we go to 3-2 tomorrow.

So we're in end game there, also. If we kill J23 there, he takes a villager and it's 2-1. The cunning takes out a villager and the wolves win.

So either way, we have one more day after today, barring a PF BG protect.

[Chief Rum]

The question becomes do we want to decide the cunning among us today or wait until tomorrow? I would actually recommend today, while there are more of us villagers. We will be less open to manipulation.

BTW, not that there was any doubt, but we can now confirm the cunning is in the game. The brutal was always going to be in the game; the question was whether the brutal and cunning would be one in the same. Since J23 is almost certainly the brutal, given what was happening on Friday, but I was able to scan him as evil (so he's not the cunning), that certainly means the cunning is present.

[hoopsguy]

I'm fine with that discussion today, if everyone thinks it is the way to go. But I also think it leads us back to a discussion on what the starting numbers would look like for this game.

14 players, do you think 3 wolves + cultist would be realistic?

I'm coming around to the idea that both me + EF (and Danny) might be good, and that it started with 2 wolves + cultist.

I don't know either way, but I do know I'll be interested in seeing the game balance at the end when knowing what roles were in/out for this one, as well as the "unknown" capabilities of the two top guys.

2 wolves + cultist feels like a bit mountain to climb, with the powers available to Dr. Manhatten. But 3 wolves + cultist has potential to be a very quick game with a couple of bad early lynches. Again, no idea how this sorts out but this is what I've been mulling over the weekend and while considering what to do about the cunning wolf.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, while I don't think he should say where he's going with his protection, I would recommend PF use his protective ability on some he's not expected to need to protect tomorrow, like jeff for instance. This way, he will have complete protective powers, even on himself, if it comes down to a nightkill for the game, and give the wolves that much more difficulty in winning it, should they get the lynches they want the next two days.

[hoopsguy]

Ah, Chief - guess post #628 answers the stuff that I was bandying about with potential for cunning/brutal to be one and the same.

Well, I'm not really sure how to argue my villagerness but if there is a case to be made against EF I can start looking at the voting records and see where Saldana + J23 fell relative to him.

I would be careful about giving Danny a 100% free pass, even though I've been leaning towards EF all game long.

[jeff061]

I'm fine with that discussion today, if everyone thinks it is the way to go. But I also think it leads us back to a discussion on what the starting numbers would look like for this game.

14 players, do you think 3 wolves + cultist would be realistic?

I'm coming around to the idea that both me + EF (and Danny) might be good, and that it started with 2 wolves + cultist.

I don't know either way, but I do know I'll be interested in seeing the game balance at the end when knowing what roles were in/out for this one, as well as the "unknown" capabilities of the two top guys.

2 wolves + cultist feels like a bit mountain to climb, with the powers available to Dr. Manhatten. But 3 wolves + cultist has potential to be a very quick game with a couple of bad early lynches. Again, no idea how this sorts out but this is what I've been mulling over the weekend and while considering what to do about the cunning wolf.

I'll leave that discussion for you guys, I don't have much of a feel for these numbers.

[Chief Rum]

I'm fine with that discussion today, if everyone thinks it is the way to go. But I also think it leads us back to a discussion on what the starting numbers would look like for this game.

14 players, do you think 3 wolves + cultist would be realistic?

I'm coming around to the idea that both me + EF (and Danny) might be good, and that it started with 2 wolves + cultist.

I don't know either way, but I do know I'll be interested in seeing the game balance at the end when knowing what roles were in/out for this one, as well as the "unknown" capabilities of the two top guys.

2 wolves + cultist feels like a bit mountain to climb, with the powers available to Dr. Manhatten. But 3 wolves + cultist has potential to be a very quick game with a couple of bad early lynches. Again, no idea how this sorts out but this is what I've been mulling over the weekend and while considering what to do about the cunning wolf.

There are a lot of villager roles in this one, though, which also had the potential to become cleared villagers. Plus, one of the two most powerful villager roles, essentially survives a death.

I think 14 was a tricky number for The Jackal to balance, but if I had to guess with what we know now, I would say it's far more likely to have three wolves & cultist over two wolves & cultist. And that's even besides the fact I could scan J23 as a wolf (see previous post).

[Chief Rum]

Ah, Chief - guess post #628 answers the stuff that I was bandying about with potential for cunning/brutal to be one and the same.

Well, I'm not really sure how to argue my villagerness but if there is a case to be made against EF I can start looking at the voting records and see where Saldana + J23 fell relative to him.

I would be careful about giving Danny a 100% free pass, even though I've been leaning towards EF all game long.

Actually, I would be very unlikely to vote for you.

On the pivotal vote of Day Two between saldana and ntndeacon, when they were tied 3-3, in the last hour, DT voted sal up 4-3. You then shortly after voted sal up to 5-3. 4-3 was very much in doubt; saldana had not yet even vote switched to protect himself. 5-3, and it looks like the wolves needed help to protect sal.

I find that to be a very unlikely vote for you to have made if you are the cunning.

Pretty much all of our evidence points to EF as the cunning. I am fine testing that theory.

UNVOTE J23
VOTE EAGLEFAN

[hoopsguy]

I just double-checked to make sure we've got a role claim from everyone, and we do for all except Danny who is Rum-cleared.

Since we've got two wolves left, and more or less everyone has claimed something (I've claimed vanilla, in my very first post after the game started, for those scoring at home) I'm all for going after the cunning now if we have two shots.

UNVOTE J23
VOTE EAGLEFAN

[jeff061]

Vote EagleFan

I pinned Saldana as a non-brutal yesterday almost solely based off how I would expect Eagle to behave as a wolf. Strong enough evidence for me right now.

[J23]

Clearly Chief is a wolf and the real seer role didn't make it into the game. I mean, the wolves know who the villagers are and what roles aren't in the game, so it's easy to fake. I was just minding my own business basking in the glory of the Liverpool v. Chelsea game this past weekend and I come back to this assault on my character.

vote Chief Rum

[jeff061]

lol. I was wondering how you'd respond. Good show :).

[Chief Rum]

Clearly Chief is a wolf and the real seer role didn't make it into the game. I mean, the wolves know who the villagers are and what roles aren't in the game, so it's easy to fake. I was just minding my own business basking in the glory of the Liverpool v. Chelsea game this past weekend and I come back to this assault on my character.

vote Chief Rum

:D

[saldana]

I was just minding my own business basking in the glory of the Liverpool v. Chelsea game this past weekend and I come back to this assault on my character.




hey jackal, can i please vote for J23 based on this post.:popcorn:

[The Jackal]

hey jackal, can i please vote for J23 based on this post.:popcorn:

I'm an arsenal fan, you two can beat each other up for all I care!

[J23]

Saldana, don't tell me you're a Chelski fan like Hoops.

Jackal, I'll just try to pretend Arsenal didn't play this last weekend for your sake.

[hoopsguy]

Clearly Chief is a wolf and the real seer role didn't make it into the game. I mean, the wolves know who the villagers are and what roles aren't in the game, so it's easy to fake. I was just minding my own business basking in the glory of the Liverpool v. Chelsea game this past weekend and I come back to this assault on my character.

vote Chief Rum

Can I vote for him a 2nd time?

[hoopsguy]

Oops, voting for the cunning instead of the brutal. Very solid attempt to goad me into voting for you :)

[EagleFan]

Thee wolves actually turned the numbers game to them a little better with no kill last night. If they had a kill and it gets to 2-1 with myself, hoops and Danny they can then only win if I am the choice for a lynch.

You're making a stupid move by going after me but it you want to lose the game go for it. I'm an Eagles fan so I am used to seeing my team choke in the end...

Ask yourself why the heat turned up on me after my reveal. Because the wolves can't afford to have me around at the end and they are backed into a corner where they can't night kill me. Then ask yourself who turned that heat up. saldana and hoops.

[EagleFan]

If we want to win this thing we might as well go this route.

unvote J23

vote hoops

[Danny]

Catching up

[EagleFan]

Numbers to think about...

6-2 now...

If you go vote me out it will be 3-2 after the morning and then you have to nail the cunning or it's game over.

6-2 now and if we vote hoops out it will either be 4-1 or 3-2. Obviously with it 4-1 we win as we have J23 next.

If it's 3-2 we can still win by voting J23 out. If he brutals me it will be 2-1 against Danny and game over for the village. If he brutals the "lovers" it will be 1-1 and my role comes into play, a no win situation for them.

[Danny]

You wake up and once more find all of your numbers intact. Divine providence? Luck? Or something sinister?

Day five begins!


Nice!

[Danny]

I just double-checked to make sure we've got a role claim from everyone, and we do for all except Danny who is Rum-cleared.

Since we've got two wolves left, and more or less everyone has claimed something (I've claimed vanilla, in my very first post after the game started, for those scoring at home) I'm all for going after the cunning now if we have two shots.

UNVOTE J23
VOTE EAGLEFAN


Pretty obvious, but I am vanilla.

[Danny]

The numbers do make sense with the path we are going down. At this point its 2 for EF and 1 for Hoops. I'm going to be looking through old posts and votes before I make my decision, but vibe has me leaning towards EagleFan at this point. Not 100% committed that way though.

[Danny]

Oh and on the starting wolves discussion, you guys pretty much covered it, but I really can't see there being only two and no Ozymandius

[Danny]

Day 1
Autumn - 6 - (PF 82, CR 95, ntn 100, DV 111, DT 154, EF 157)
EF - 4- (hoops 92, saldana 97, Lathum 104, Danny 112)
Danny - 2 - (Autumn 117, Thomkal 123)
hoopsguy - 1 - (jeff 89)

No Vote: J23

Day 2
ntn - 6 - (DV 194, CR 197, J23 227, PF 238, saldana 241, Lathum 244)
saldana - 5 - (EF 195, jeff 199, Danny 223, hoops 232, DT 234)
Lathum - 1- (ntn 214)

Day 3:
DT - 5- (DV 306, jeff 355, J23 360, saldana 363, EF 364)
EF - 3- (hoops 313, CR 324, DT 345)
CR - 1 - (Danny 326)
saldana - 1 - (PF 358)

[The Jackal]

EF - 3 - (CR 634, hoops 635, jeff 636)
CR - 1- (J23 637)
hoops - 1- (EF 646)

[hoopsguy]

Day 1 - Saldana had his vote on EF, J23 did not vote

Day 2 - me, EF, and Danny all had votes on Saldana so that isn't a great help in sifting through the candidates.

Day 3 - I had vote on EF, Saldana had vote on DT, Danny had vote on CR.


I'll want to pull up the voting logs (including unvote stuff) to see if there is something more to learn here.

[Danny]

Looking at the first three days, the first thing that sticks out is that all three of the cunning suspects have some evidence in their favor. EF has the fact that Saldana voted him day 1. I had a key 3rd vote on Saldana day 2 when it was 2-2-2 and Hoops had a key vote on Saldana day 2 as well.

I didn't include yesterdays vote because we all ended up Saldana, but it seemed to be like EF was trying to distract from potentially lynching Saldana more than myself or Hoops.

Overall though, the day that really sticks out to me is day 3 where both J23 and Saldana swung the vote late to DT with EF on the block. I think that's the best objective piece of evidence against any of us three that I am seeing at this point.

[hoopsguy]

#74 - DT votes Hoops 1-0
#78 - Lathum votes Danny 1-1 Hoops/Danny
#81 - Autumn votes J23 1-1-1 Hoops/Danny/J23
#82 - PF votes Autumn 1-1-1-1 Hoops/Danny/J23/Autumn
#84 - Hoops votes DT 1-1-1-1-1 Hoops/Danny/J23/Autumn/DT
#85 - Thomkal votes Jeff 1-1-1-1-1-1 Hoops/Danny/J23/Autumn/DT/Jeff
#89 - Jeff votes Hoops 2-1-1-1-1-1 Hoops over Danny/J23/Autumn/DT/Jeff
#90 - EF votes Danny 2-2-1-1-1-1 Hoops/Danny over J23/Autumn/DT/Jeff
#91 - Hoops unvotes DT, votes EF 2-2-1-1-1-1 Hoops/Danny over J23/Autumn/Jeff/EF
#94 - EF unvotes Danny, votes Hoops 3-1-1-1-1-1 Hoops over J23/Autumn/Jeff/EF/Danny
#95 - CR votes Autumn, 3-2-1-1-1-1 Hoops over Autumn over J23/Jeff/EF/Danny
#97 - Saldana votes EF, 3-2-2-1-1-1 Hoops over Autumn/EF over J23/Jeff/Danny
#100 - NTN votes Autumn 3-3-2-1-1-1 Hoops/Autumn over EF over J23/Jeff/Danny
#104 - Lathum unvotes Danny, votes EF 3-3-3-1-1 Hoops/Autumn/EF over J23/Jeff
#109 - DT unvotes Hoops 3-3-2-1-1 Autumn/EF over Hoops over J23/Jeff
#111 - DV votes Autumn 4-3-2-1-1 Autumn over EF over Hoops over J23/Jeff
#112 - Danny votes EF 4-4-2-1-1 Autumn/EF over Hoops over J23/Jeff
#117 - Autumn unvotes J23, votes Danny 4-4-2-1-1 Autumn/EF over Hoops over Jeff/Danny
#123 - Thomkal unvotes Jeff, votes Danny 4-4-2-2 Autumn/EF over Hoops/Danny
#126 - EF unvotes Hoops, votes Danny 4-4-3-1 Autumn/EF over Danny over Hoops
#152 - DT votes Autumn, 5-4-3-1 Autumn over EF over Danny over Hoops
#157 - EF unvotes Danny, votes Autumn 6-4-2-1 Autumn over EF over Hoops

Saldana put his vote on EF, moving him up to a 3-2 deficit. It could have been a case of wolves being too clever voting for each other, but it was risky with J23 not being around and Saldana never moving the vote away. I'm not sure they do that to their cunning wolf on Day 1.

Going to look to see if Saldana had any more posts close to the deadline.

[Danny]

Hoops using that yellow may sway my vote

[jeff061]

Ha. Yeah, yellow is pretty horrible on this theme.

[hoopsguy]

Heh, let me know what color I should use instead. Just trying to come up with a neutral color for the people under consideration.

Also, Saldana's vote post was his last of the day on D1. So if EF is a wolf he was feeling very, very lonely on D1 with one wolf stuck voting for him and another who did not show up for the day, with no idea if the cultist was in the game.

[hoopsguy]

#191 - Lathum votes EF 1-0
#193 - PF votes CR 1-1 EF/CR
#194 - DV votes NTN 1-1-1 EF/CR/NTN
#195 - EF votes Saldana 1-1-1-1 EF/CR/NTN/Saldana
#197 - CR votes NTN 2-1-1-1 NTN over EF/CR/Saldana
#199 - Jeff votes Saldana 2-2-1-1 NTN/Saldana over EF/CR
#208 - Saldana votes EF 2-2-2-1 NTN/Saldana/EF over CR
#214 - NTN votes Lathum 2-2-2-1-1 NTN/Saldana/EF over CR/Lathum
#223 - Danny votes Saldana 3-2-2-1-1 Saldana over NTN/EF over CR/Lathum
#227 - J23 votes NTN 3-3-2-1-1 Saldana/NTN over EF over CR/Lathum
#232 - Hoops votes Saldana 4-3-2-1-1 Saldana over NTN over EF over CR/Lathum
#234 - DT votes Saldana 5-3-2-1-1 Saldana over NTN over EF over CR/Lathum
#236 - PF unvotes CR 5-3-2-1 Saldana over NTN over EF over Lathum
#238 - PF votes NTN 5-4-2-1 Saldana over NTN over EF over Lathum
#239 - Lathum unvotes EF, votes Saldana 6-4-1-1 Saldana over NTN over Lathum/EF
#241 - Saldana unvotes EF, votes NTN 6-5-1 Saldana over NTN over Lathum
#244 - Lathum unvotes Saldana, votes NTN 6-5-1 NTN over Saldana over Lathum

Danny and I both put tough, tough votes on Saldana. EF put first vote on him when there were already votes on 3 others. I'm going to now see when last posts were from everyone on this day.

[Danny]

But did the wolves have any idea J23 was not going to show up? I agree that putting that vote on the cunning was risky and is part of the case supporting not voting EF. Unfortunately I think all three of us have case supporting and not supporting us which makes this a tough decision.

[Danny]

And that teal works ok

[Danny]

I was just looking as well and both EF and I were around near that day 2 deadline.

[hoopsguy]

Yep, everyone posted in the last 45 minutes leading up to the deadline. Sucks, because this is the vote that was supposed to help provide some info.

Can't see the wolves thinking that trading the wolf seer for a villager (in their eyes with NTN) was a good play. And I can't see how they would have counted on Lathum + PF to save Saldana. I'll probably take another look at this when I get home to see if I can make any sense of it.

[jeff061]

I'm going to continue to follow what you guys say, just in case. But between the shift to J23 yesterday, the reveal as hunter and a couple lynch escapes...it's tough to look at others based off of early vote patterns. I personally just don't put much stock into that type of metric.

[EagleFan]

It's liking watching Andy Reid try to use timeouts...

[Danny]

It's liking watching Andy Reid try to use timeouts...

?

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, hoops made the 4th vote on saldana, not the 5th. I would have felt better with him on the 5th vote, as that would have been a ballsy move for a wolf to make. The 4th, not as much so, because saldana still had his vote to move. I still lean to EF, but that makes it more iffy. It would still be a fairly bold move for a cunning hoops to vote his fellow wolf up one in the vote with less than an hour to go.

[EagleFan]

No late movement by the wolves on day one. Classic sign of villager versus villager. Odd that hoops is overlooking that and has been one of the vocal ones against me since my reveal.

My role is a possible game killer for them right now and they know it so they will push heavily to get me out. The first time I remember seeing a hunter role possibly come into play.

[EagleFan]

?

Watching my fellow villagers have a win in their grasp and screwing it up.

[Danny]

oh lol

[saldana]

I'm an arsenal fan, you two can beat each other up for all I care!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The only thing worse than an arsenal fan to be this weekend was a ManU fan.

[EagleFan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The only thing worse than an arsenal fan to be this weekend was a ManU fan.

vote saldana

:mad:

[EagleFan]

I'm out for a while, will be back later. Hopefully better judgement prevails.

[The Jackal]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The only thing worse than an arsenal fan to be this weekend was a ManU fan.

Actually now that the invincible talk for the stupid red devils is gone I've already forgotten that they lost after losing their best defender, getting a red card, and giving up two penalties. Plus the flyers won while I was there, so I don't care!

[hoopsguy]

Numbers to think about...

6-2 now...

If you go vote me out it will be 3-2 after the morning and then you have to nail the cunning or it's game over.

6-2 now and if we vote hoops out it will either be 4-1 or 3-2. Obviously with it 4-1 we win as we have J23 next.

If it's 3-2 we can still win by voting J23 out. If he brutals me it will be 2-1 against Danny and game over for the village. If he brutals the "lovers" it will be 1-1 and my role comes into play, a no win situation for them.

I want to work through your scenario here (you = hunter)
Today: lynch a villager, moves to 5-2
Tonight: wolves take lovers, moves to 3-2
Tomorrow: lynch J23, he brutals EF, moves to 2-1 (can't take out lovers twice like you outlined)
Tomorrow night: night kill, moves to 1-1 and game is over

I feel a bit better about voting for you because I don't think you would be in bluffing mode if you had the role. I think you would try to survive the day, but not misrepresenting the data in an effort to paint yourself as the savior.

[hoopsguy]

If/when PF arrives, I would encourage him to prepare his conditional duke order again - it takes out the element of wolf manipulation of the vote.

[hoopsguy]

I'm going to try and run through scenarios for if this lynch goes badly.

We lynch villager, making score 5-2.
Now who do the wolves kill?
- if they know that the Lovers are unguardable, per rule, they take that kill and make the score 3-2, leaving seer, duke, brutal wolf, cunning wolf, and vanilla villager (or hunter, the wolves know validity of this claim).
- if they took a shot at Manhatten last night then they probably shy away from the lovers tonight, leaving themselves in a 4-2 position regardless of who they kill.

Latter is much better for us, as we could take out the brutal tomorrow to put it to 3-1, night kill makes it 2-1. Their choices for night kills would be severely constrained since they would have to leave the other seer target alive.

The wolves will know who they attempted to kill last night. I don't think PF holding this info to himself (or if he didn't block, and wolves goofed up over the long weekend) benefits the village. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this and I'm missing out on something where disclosing this data in the thread is bad.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - obviously, if PF did not block a night kill yesterday then he should not divulge who he protected. That would be tipping info we don't want the wolves to know.

[Danny]

I agree, wolves know what happened, no disadvantage to pf making sure the village does too

[Danny]

Alright.

Vote EagleFan

This is not an easy vote because EF has Saldana's vote on him day 1 and a lack of late movement that day on his side. But Hoops also has his key day 2 vote on Saldana.

My reasoning for EF is more based on day 3 where J23 and Saldana helped a late swing over to DT. At that point in the game the wolves had an outed seer and it was looking like it was going to go 5-3 with no outed wolves. I think at that point they wanted to make sure they didn't lose a wolf and only needed either one more villager lynch or a double villager kill / brutal to win. I also get more of a bad vibe from EF than Hoops

[Danny]

I'm out for a little bit, but should be back 45 minutes to an hour before deadline.

[EagleFan]

When I come up clean tonight look at hoops tomorrow. You let him lead you down the path like good little sheep.

[EagleFan]

Might as well go out voting a known wolf.

unvote hoops

vote J23

[jeff061]

When I come up clean tonight look at hoops tomorrow. You let him lead you down the path like good little sheep.

Well actually, I think I've been pretty vocal about you leading me down this path. I can't think of anything Hoops has done to paint you.


Anyways.... :D.

[jeff061]

Hell, Hoops is really the only guy that's come close to defending you today.

[hoopsguy]

When I come up clean tonight look at hoops tomorrow. You let him lead you down the path like good little sheep.

I'll feel badly about this if you are a villager. But if you are a wolf I'll take this as your way of saying, "damn you for making life so difficult"

[Coffee Warlord]

After poking through this thread, I have some insightful advice to offer ya'll.

One of the players is a wolf.

Thank you.

[hoopsguy]

Hell, Hoops is really the only guy that's come close to defending you today.

Honestly, I try to wipe away my assumptions almost daily because it is too easy to get stuck in a line of thinking in these games.

If EF does end up being a villager, then one thing that will stick with me is that he had a very inconvenient role reveal in terms of me believing him. That has happened once before in a game where we played, where he was a villager who bluffed at the role I actually held.

I'm more inclined to believe Danny's "vanilla villager" than I am EF's role reveal. That isn't the tipping point in voting for EF over Danny, but it factors into my thinking.

[J23]

Might as well go out voting a known wolf.

unvote hoops

vote J23

I still don't know why you'd vote for me over that impostor seer CR!

You're making a mistake EF!

[jeff061]

Honestly, I try to wipe away my assumptions almost daily because it is too easy to get stuck in a line of thinking in these games.

If EF does end up being a villager, then one thing that will stick with me is that he had a very inconvenient role reveal in terms of me believing him. That has happened once before in a game where we played, where he was a villager who bluffed at the role I actually held.

I'm more inclined to believe Danny's "vanilla villager" than I am EF's role reveal. That isn't the tipping point in voting for EF over Danny, but it factors into my thinking.

I agree. I'll be amazed if he is not a wolf, between the whole Hunter thing(why did he reveal again?) and just bad luck picking yesterday to move off Sal for once and onto the presumable brutal. Too much smoke.

For you and Danny the evidence is basically splitting hairs. Not enough to look in that direction over EF.

[The Jackal]

EF - 4 - (CR 634, hoops 635, jeff 636, Danny 682)
CR - 1- (J23 637)
J23 - 1 - (EF 685)

yet to vote: DV, PF

[The Jackal]

As you head to the guillotine to survey the final results, Dr. Manhattan walks into the room with a notably sad look upon his face.

Without saying a word, he disappears, dropping a picture to the ground. Upon inspection you see that this is a picture of a man wearing the nametag "Dr. Jonathan Osterman", along with his wife Janey. His head is burnt away from the picture.

Dr. Manhattan has left the world! PF was Dr. Manhattan.

[The Jackal]

Deadline has passed.

[Danny]

Huh?

[The Jackal]

The decision has come to rest upon the head of EF. He is quite incensed as he is led to the guillotine, swearing that you will be sorry for what you have done.

Chop.

EF was Nelson Gardner (Captain Metropolis)!

[jeff061]

Hoping theres a second part.

Sounds like they figured out how to get right of Manhattan? Which messes with our numbers.

[The Jackal]

(Advancing through the night, as no one can stop the inevitable)

[Danny]

Damn it, Hoops...

[jeff061]

Christ guys. I told you he was the hunter.

[The Jackal]

You awaken to find two of your members missing, DV and jeff, their hands clasped in their final moments.

DV was Laurie Juspeczyk (Silk Spectre II)
jeff was Daniel Dreiberg (Nite Owl II)

[Danny]

Crap

[The Jackal]

With only four of you left, there is little reason to keep up any further charades. The remaining wolves step forward and reveal themselves.

Ozymandias directs Janey Slater to lead Rorschach and his minutemen companion outside into an endless ocean of ice. The two will be left to starve and think upon their failures.

Chief Rum was Walter Joseph Kovacs (Rorschach)
hoopsguy was a vanilla villager

Danny was Adrian Veidt (Ozymandias)
J23 was Janey Slater

The wolves have won!

[Danny]

And the world is mine!!!

[The Jackal]

I'll listen to what people thought about the game balance. It was definitely a tough one to pull, but I thought with all the villager roles and Dr. Manhattan's extra powers, a lot of things could have happened.

PF had an instantkill power that if he had used today, could have definitely made things more interesting.

[jeff061]

I'm going to go on record a saying I don't like cunnings and to a lesser degree hidden roles :D.

Seriously though, first game I've played with them. Seems like a total crapshoot? Is it ever anything but? I still think Eagle was the right choice with the information at hand and literally ignored everything Hoops said simply because I thought it was irrelevant info.

[Autumn]

Wow.

[jeff061]

Screw you Danny!!! :D.

[The Jackal]

Dr. Jonathan Osterman (Doctor Manhattan) - You are the Duke, and may once per game change the outcome of the vote. You cannot be nightkilled or lynched, but once you are revealed (either by being scanned, targeted for a NK, or revealing yourself), there will be a mechanism by which the wolves can kill you that you will not know. If you are targeted for a NK, you will remain alive and be revealed in the thread. If you are scanned by a wolf, you will be aware of it, but not learn who the wolf is, and will not be forcibly revealed in the thread.

Hidden powers:

May once during the course of the game instantly kill a player. Can only use this power if you still have the Duke ability, and cannot use it until at least day 3. Use of this power forfeits the duke ability, and reveals you in the thread if you have not been revealed prior.

If the comedian is killed, may act as bodyguard in his stead, but only every other night, and cannot protect yourself. If you are protecting either of the Silk Spectres (should they be in the game) and they are attacked, you will kill the attacker.

[jeff061]

But seriously. It does seem with a cunning the game is absolutely 100% about luck.

[The Jackal]

Danny is Adrian Veidt (Ozymandias)

You organized this rendezvous and are controlling things behind the scenes with your partners in crime. You are the cunning wolf, and if scanned by Rorschach you will appear to be good. Since Mothman is not in the game, you are brutal as well as cunning.

Hidden Powers:

May once during the game choose one of the wolves' votes (any of you) to count as three votes. Order must be submitted by night deadline.

May once during the game choose to nullify a Duking at a night deadline. This order must be submitted by the deadline, so it will be merely a guess at whether or not Manhattan will use the power that night. If successful, Manhattan may or may not be able to Duke again later.

[Danny]

This game could have gone either way Jackal. so the balance seems ok. If PF had used his instant kill that definitely could have changed things. Dr. Manhattan was pretty damn powerful as it turns out.

[Autumn]

From the outside (since you guys killed me as soon as possible), it seemed balanced. The village had a chance here, they just barked up the wrong tree. Not that I would have been better. Danny deserves major props for somehow evading any attention at all. Despite being Danny. Come on guys.

[EagleFan]

:(

Good game wolves.

I was afraid that Danny was just being an UTR wolf but it seemed that hoops kept coming back at me.

[Danny]

But seriously. It does seem with a cunning the game is absolutely 100% about luck.

It's not, voting records are actually great things to look at. If I hadn't voted Saldana day 2, I think I was the easy choice as the cunning based on vote records. I took the risk on that day to help myself down the line and it payed off but it was also very risky as Saldana was almost lynched.

[The Jackal]

And also, though the cultist was in the game, he didn't know who the wolves were prior to the game starting, so he's not all that effective unless he figured it out by the end.

I'll post the ways to kill Dr. Manhattan here next.

[jeff061]

From the outside (since you guys killed me as soon as possible), it seemed balanced. The village had a chance here, they just barked up the wrong tree. Not that I would have been better. Danny deserves major props for somehow evading any attention at all. Despite being Danny. Come on guys.


Well I mean that's the thing. I'm sure I'm just noob talking :D. But seer lasts til the end and clears 3 villagers. Leading to a 33% guess. Voting records are pretty worthless until the game gets tight. You have to straight up purposely play a bad game or just get unlucky.

[The Jackal]

If Janey Slater is still alive when Dr. Manhattan is revealed, she can execute a day kill upon him, if the wolves sacrifice the previous night kill.

If Janey Slater is not alive when Manhattan is revealed, the wolves can sacrifice a night kill to have Manhattan killed during the day, two day phases after the sacrificed kill.

If Manhattan is left in an even ratio situation between the villagers and wolves, the wolves will win, as he will grow agitated with humanity and leave Earth.

[The Jackal]

Well I mean that's the thing. I'm sure I'm just noob talking :D. But seer lasts til the end and clears 3 villagers. Leading to a 33% guess. Voting records are pretty worthless until the game gets tight. You have to straight up purposely play a bad game or just get unlucky.

The cunning is always tough to nail down, but you have to look at it like no one has been scanned, and judge people on their votes and their posts. That's what you usually have to do anyways, its rare the seer makes it to the end of the game and that so many people can role reveal.

[Lathum]

I royally screwed up by not voting Saldana when I should have. I was also going to not protect myself N1 and hope I didn't go down but I didn't do it. Had I then n@ I would have fought off the attack.

[jeff061]

It's not, voting records are actually great things to look at. If I hadn't voted Saldana day 2, I think I was the easy choice as the cunning based on vote records. I took the risk on that day to help myself down the line and it payed off but it was also very risky as Saldana was almost lynched.

I know. But you did vote Saldana day 2 and I think that's an easy chance to take. That's my point :).

I'd say when there is a cunning in a game it devalues the seer a bit, which in turn devalues the wolf seer. Seems pretty obvious to me as a wolf to cast a vote or 2 on the wolf seer(assuming you don't have a vanilla).

[Autumn]

Well part of the thing is, cunning is useless unless they get scanned. I know I've been cunning a number of times, and usually I end up shooting myself in the foot trying to get myself scanned, and getting lynched instead. The power is useless unless you can get scanned, but trying to get yourself scanned almost always backfires. So it depends a lot who gets it.

And I think Danny is right, voting records and talking in thread is the best way to find wolves. The seer can get killed, and does most games without being much help. The cunning can't hide from these other tools.

It was incredibly lucky in this game the seer lasted this long. Most of the time they would have been killed first night, and you guys would have had to find three wolves by yourself anyway, cunning or not.

[jeff061]

If Manhattan is left in an even ratio situation between the villagers and wolves, the wolves will win, as he will grow agitated with humanity and leave Earth.

Hah, that's great. I like that.

[Danny]

I don't like games with 2 wolves and 1 cunning, 3 wolves and 1 cunning still makes the seer a valuable role. 4 or more wolves obviously gives the seer tremendous value even with a cunning.

And the wolves knowing which roles were not in the game didn't help us much as both roles were not ones we could use as a fake reveal. If only helped in that the village wasn't sure if claimed roles were real.

[EagleFan]

I seriously screwed up in this game. I was scanning things too quickly.

My first vote jump is when I thought there was a sudden run on me but it ended up being hoops just posting the same thing a couple times.

I totally misread the CR reveal as well. When I clicked on the thread I saw last posted as DT. It seems that between that point and it loading the actua thread is when CR hit submit. I read the reveal and my mind was still thinking DT. I was completely floored trying to figure out why DT revealed when he wasn't in trouble (at that time). Then I saw the votes start to shift to me and I voted CR (and somewhere in there did my reveal) still not seeing how I screwed up.

At that point I figured I would just play it in the open as if I even tried to explain that time period it would just sound like a wolf trying to cover his tracks after messing up.

Oh well, such is life in werewolf.

[Danny]

Well part of the thing is, cunning is useless unless they get scanned. I know I've been cunning a number of times, and usually I end up shooting myself in the foot trying to get myself scanned, and getting lynched instead. The power is useless unless you can get scanned, but trying to get yourself scanned almost always backfires. So it depends a lot who gets it.
.

This is definitely how I played the role. I figured me being me would give me enough of a chance of being scanned, so I made sure not to play as if I wanted to be scanned.

Interesting is we had CR pegged as the seer before he revealed. I voted him to try and out him as after he posted his trust list I figured he scanned me and wanted him to come out with that info. It ended up backfiring as PF took over BG powers and was able to protect him. He probably doesn't protect him if CR doesn't have to reveal/

[Autumn]

Yeah, I have to say I thought that was a pretty obvious play by Chief Rum. It worked out obviously, but I was surprised to see him hint so clearly that quickly.

[EagleFan]

If only helped in that the village wasn't sure if claimed roles were real.

:(

[jeff061]

And that was the problem. You made some mistakes EF that implicated you with me. But on the flipside the reason Hoops and Danny didn't is more because they didn't post as much as you.

I really wanted to vote every day for the guys that didn't post. Just clear them out and remove that doubt. I may do that in the future. I wasn't upset or anything, people have lives, but I can't get a read on them one way or the other.

Hoops posting a bunch of numbers? Doesn't mean much when it comes to implying guilt or innocence.

[Danny]

Hoops and I play a different style than EF usually. We didn't post that much less.

[J23]

Also, if you had killed me rather than Saldana, we couldn't have killed Manhattan as quickly (would have had to wait the two days). Assuming I was the brutal ended up being pretty big misstep.

[Darth Vilus]

If Manhattan is left in an even ratio situation between the villagers and wolves, the wolves will win, as he will grow agitated with humanity and leave Earth.


Is this how they one? I'm confused. And sorry for not showing up today guys, it was the first day of school. Totally threw me off

[Danny]

No, we day removed Dr. Manhattan from the game. That part of his role never came into play.

[EagleFan]

And that was the problem. You made some mistakes EF that implicated you with me. But on the flipside the reason Hoops and Danny didn't is more because they didn't post as much as you.

I really wanted to vote every day for the guys that didn't post. Just clear them out and remove that doubt. I may do that in the future. I wasn't upset or anything, people have lives, but I can't get a read on them one way or the other.

Hoops posting a bunch of numbers? Doesn't mean much when it comes to implying guilt or innocence.

The problem is that I think that I have backed myself into somewhat of a corner. Posting a lot can lead to problems if I don't post a lot in a game. I like trying to draw people out into posting. The more people post the more of a chance there is that they may say something they shouldn't have and outright contradict themselves. Plus I think that it makes the games more fun than a quiet thread.

[jeff061]

Also, if you had killed me rather than Saldana, we couldn't have killed Manhattan as quickly (would have had to wait the two days). Assuming I was the brutal ended up being pretty big misstep.

Yeah, well clearly there's really not a chance in hell that could have been foreseen. Worst case from our point of view is you are not a Brutal and it doesn't matter who gets lynched.

[Autumn]

I was reading for entertainment, but I definitely felt like Danny was unusually quiet. I would have been poking at him more if I was in game. EF did come across as fishy, but that happens with some villager in every game. I was surprised to see his reveal was real, coming after all those other reveals it did seem fake.

[JAG]

Hoops, it's funny you mentioned that earlier game with EF making a late role claim that seemed fishy. I was thinking about that same game as I read along and that was the only thing that gave me pause about him as wolf. Well played Danny. I was surprised Jeff gave out accurate info about which lover was which, that seemed to give the wolves a freebie.

[EagleFan]

Oh, and Lathum beat me to the day one vote. I was going to vote Danny since he checked in as a wolf the previous day. Who knew it would have been the best thing to do on day one.

[Autumn]

Yeah, Jeff, I would have held that info for a bit longer, and definitely not tell which lover was which when you revealed. The wolves would have been in a tougher spot that way.

[Autumn]

I'd like to note I voted a wolf day one.

Jackal, I think this was a great game, even just to watch. Nice work on all the roles.

[Danny]

I'm usually not the top poster the first couple days, but I was definitely a little quieter than usual post day 3. But with where the village was going I felt I just had to contribute enough to not draw any suspicion, but not so much to try and influence the decisions.

[jeff061]

Hoops, it's funny you mentioned that earlier game with EF making a late role claim that seemed fishy. I was thinking about that same game as I read along and that was the only thing that gave me pause about him as wolf. Well played Danny. I was surprised Jeff gave out accurate info about which lover was which, that seemed to give the wolves a freebie.

Well it wasn't accurate, I lied and switched them. Figured I'd monitor the vote and only reveal if needed. But I thought of a potential duking after the fact and that scared me.

I named Darth and I because 4 were under the microscope with the thinking that 2 were wolves(they were). So I could pretty much name 2 wolves, but only if I cleared 2 people.

[Danny]

Oh, and Lathum beat me to the day one vote. I was going to vote Danny since he checked in as a wolf the previous day. Who knew it would have been the best thing to do on day one.

hah, I knew I was going to end up a wolf after posting that lol

[Danny]

Well it wasn't accurate, I lied and switched them. Figured I'd monitor the vote and only reveal if needed. But I thought of a potential duking after the fact and that scared me.

I named Darth and I because 4 were under the microscope with the thinking that 2 were wolves(they were). So I could pretty much name 2 wolves, but only if I cleared 2 people.

We had already scanned you and know DV was the one to kill.

[jeff061]

We had already scanned you and know DV was the one to kill.

Yeah, the second J23 mentioned that we should vote on Darth and not me I kind of figured :).

[The Jackal]

Thanks, Autumn. I would have liked to put some more flavor into my deadline posts but I was often out of time to do such. Oh well, next time!

[EagleFan]

Hoops, it's funny you mentioned that earlier game with EF making a late role claim that seemed fishy. I was thinking about that same game as I read along and that was the only thing that gave me pause about him as wolf. Well played Danny. I was surprised Jeff gave out accurate info about which lover was which, that seemed to give the wolves a freebie.

I think that I was the seer that game if I remember correctly. I didn't want to some out so soon in he game about that so I tried to chose a role that (of all the roles on the list) I would have bet money on that it wasn't in the game.

I should have stayed with my first reaction to hoope (later in the day one day one) when I said that your vote on me was making me trust him more than others at that time. Bu then he would defend me and then an hour late vote for me (did that a couple times) so I thought that he was a wolf who didn't want my role left in the game. It just kept working out that they had other important targets to go after at that point and couldn't remove me from the pool of possible cunnings.

If it wasn't for the fact that there was absolutely no way that jeff was a wolf today I would have assumed that he was one with how hard he was coming after me.

[jeff061]

Yeah, there were just zero reason to look elsewhere.

[EagleFan]

Thanks for running the game Jackal. It was fun.


Oh, and...

Let's Go Flyers!!!

:)