WW-Pokemon Day Three Deadline 4/15 10 PM

[JAG]

I don't see the case for brit. I sort of get what people see with cheek, but I feel like it's inexperience rather than malice.

[britrock88]

I don't see the case for brit. I sort of get what people see with cheek, but I feel like it's inexperience rather than malice.

Alternatives?

[britrock88]

Quiet around here.

[timmae]

Ok, I don't like voting claimed village D1. So... Both Grover and raven have been around but not over the top active. Grover is off bowling so I will go with the guy who stuck up for Brit unasked.

unvote britrock
Vote raven

[JAG]

Alternatives?

Of the current candidates no, like I said, just a negative feeling on Shoveler.

[cheekimonk]

Well, I can't argue anyone onto brit and it would be stupid and useless to move my vote. I don't get how I stumbled into it, but this would be my first D1 lynching. Karma for my 0.09% argument, I suppose.

[Shoveler]

The only thing that stood out a bit to me was Shoveler saying he'd be around all day but didn't really have a lot to say even as conversations were raging. The comment about feeling better about Narc after he posts analysis, which makes no sense as he does that no matter his alliegence.

You are right about my statement on narc. In the three games that have gone on since I started here I thought he was good in all of those, but now that you are calling me out on it I realize I made a mistake. He was the neutral/evil in the game autumn and I ran and yes he was doing his usual vote analysis. He wasn't specifically evil, but in a way he was so yes I can see your point.

As for my participation.. I've been paying attention.. have not had as many opportunities to post as I would have liked.

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 257

Cheekimonk 6-Shoveler(63), The Jackal(160), Autumn(205), Raven(214),
Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237)
Britrock 3-JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Timmae(210)
EagleFan 2-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)
Vaimes 1- EagleFan(206)
Raven 1-Cheekimonk(245)

[cheekimonk]

Zinto, I didn't move my vote to Raven. That was timmae.

[Autumn]

<b>unvote cheekimonk
vote britrock88</b>

[cheekimonk]

Shoveler, why have you sat on your vote on me from the start?

[Shoveler]

Shoveler, why have you sat on your vote on me from the start?

Was actually just about to remove it to get us back to even.

Unvote: Cheekimonk

[cheekimonk]

My bad, Shoveler.

[Shoveler]

Vote: Eaglefan

I'm not seeing the cheeki or brit votes. I think Eagle is just being random like the past two games, but at least that is something to go on.

[EagleFan]

unvote Vaimes

vote cheekimonk

[cheekimonk]

timmae, both brit and I have claimed village but I think you've got to pick one.

[EagleFan]

Well, I can't argue anyone onto brit and it would be stupid and useless to move my vote. I don't get how I stumbled into it, but this would be my first D1 lynching. Karma for my 0.09% argument, I suppose.

This post is enough for me to suspect at this point. Why consider it a bad move to move to the second leading candidate? That person already has his vote on you so the only way it would be useless is if he could move his vote to you, thus making your move a wash.

[cheekimonk]

I feel better about this than the other.

unvote britrock88
vote EagleFan

[cheekimonk]

This post is enough for me to suspect at this point. Why consider it a bad move to move to the second leading candidate? That person already has his vote on you so the only way it would be useless is if he could move his vote to you, thus making your move a wash.

Huh? My vote was on brit who was the 2nd leading candidate. ZINTO HAS THE VOTE COUNT WRONG!!. Look at the posts...timmae moved from brit to Raven, NOT me.

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 268

Cheekimonk 5- The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(265)
EagleFan 4-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Cheekimonk(268)
Britrock 3-JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)
Raven 1-Timmae(245)

[Zinto]

Zinto, I didn't move my vote to Raven. That was timmae.


Don't worry I will double check my vote counts at some point during this first day.

[Zinto]

Huh? My vote was on brit who was the 2nd leading candidate. ZINTO HAS THE VOTE COUNT WRONG!!. Look at the posts...timmae moved from brit to Raven, NOT me.


Yep my bad. It is my screw up.

[EagleFan]

This post is enough for me to suspect at this point. Why consider it a bad move to move to the second leading candidate? That person already has his vote on you so the only way it would be useless is if he could move his vote to you, thus making your move a wash.

Never mind, was going of Z's vote post.

[EagleFan]

Well, with that said you have successfully boxed me in to keeping my vote on you.

[cheekimonk]

Never mind, was going of Z's vote post.

Understood...though you can't really move your vote now.

[fontisian]

Britrock, switch to EF.

[timmae]

timmae, both brit and I have claimed village but I think you've got to pick one.

I am note sure it is down to crunch time yet.. I don't believe we should be voting claimed villager at this point. I know nights are busy around this place... Is this our best bet? To lynch a non rolled up villager?

[EagleFan]

unvote cheek

vote brit

Oh well, doesn't matter if I am voted out.

[cheekimonk]

Well, with that said you have successfully boxed me in to keeping my vote on you.

I'm stuck on you, too, for now.

[EagleFan]

Pay close attention to those making a run on me. (may make this a day one macro soon)

[fontisian]

unvote cheek

vote brit

Oh well, doesn't matter if I am voted out.
:/

Why?

[EagleFan]

After my death, look at the brit/font/cheek trio. Though my initial read on font is over zealous villager. My current guess is either cheek or brit are trying to get scanned.

[Vaimes]

This post is enough for me to suspect at this point. Why consider it a bad move to move to the second leading candidate? That person already has his vote on you so the only way it would be useless is if he could move his vote to you, thus making your move a wash.

Actually, I find it to be kind of towny if a person is about to be lynched and they don't immediately hop on the next bandwagon.

[EagleFan]

:/

Why?

Vanilla, no big loss.

[cheekimonk]

unvote cheek

vote brit

Oh well, doesn't matter if I am voted out.

That was deceptively brilliant.

[cheekimonk]

I can put brit in the lead and drop EF, but I honestly feel better about brit.

[cheekimonk]

Dammit...

unvote EagleFan
vote britrock88

[cheekimonk]

Actually, I find it to be kind of towny if a person is about to be lynched and they don't immediately hop on the next bandwagon.

My vote was already on 2nd place (britrock). Hence, my vote was locked at the time.

[EagleFan]

Actually, I find it to be kind of towny if a person is about to be lynched and they don't immediately hop on the next bandwagon.

Some nice post cherry picking there.

[The Jackal]

I see no compelling reason to move my vote

[cheekimonk]

I see no compelling reason to move my vote

What's the compelling reason to keep it where it is?

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 268

Britrock 5-JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Eaglefan(278), Cheekimonk(287)
Cheekimonk 4-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237)
EagleFan 3-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)
Raven 1-Timmae(245)

Yet to vote: Path

[timmae]

unvote raven
Vote britrock

[Zinto]

Make sure your vote is in the right spot. I am not doing so hot in that department right now.

[timmae]

Where the heck is path?

[timmae]

Less work being a wolf, eh zinto?!

[The Jackal]

What's the compelling reason to keep it where it is?

I mentioned my reasoning before - I could just be bad at reading you having not played with you much, but the vote on Grover and the loophole language just pinged me. It's not compelling, it's something.

[JAG]

I am note sure it is down to crunch time yet.. I don't believe we should be voting claimed villager at this point. I know nights are busy around this place... Is this our best bet? To lynch a non rolled up villager?

That doesn't make a ton of sense. A wolf on the block could also claim villager.

[fontisian]

That doesn't make a ton of sense. A wolf on the block could also claim villager.
But they're less likely to, especially because this site has a history of lynching claimed vts.

[EagleFan]

That doesn't make a ton of sense. A wolf on the block could also claim villager.

Unless an honest wolf? If any wolves want to claim their wolf role we would be more than happy to accept their claim.

[fontisian]

Unless an honest wolf? If any wolves want to claim their wolf role we would be more than happy to accept their claim.
Can we lynch EF? Please?

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 300

Britrock 6-JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Eaglefan(278), Cheekimonk(287), Timmae(293)
Cheekimonk 4-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237)
EagleFan 3-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)


Yet to vote: Path

[path12]

Catching up, give me a minute.

[EagleFan]

But they're less likely to, especially because this site has a history of lynching claimed vts.

You're better than that...

[cheekimonk]

That doesn't make a ton of sense. A wolf on the block could also claim villager.

I made my claim early this morning. I know because I was in meetings and came back to being fitted for a noose.

[JAG]

But they're less likely to, especially because this site has a history of lynching claimed vts.

Vts?

[fontisian]

Vts?
Vanilla townies, sorry.

[fontisian]

You're better than that...
You claimed vt. Do you want me to lynch you?

[JAG]

I am note sure it is down to crunch time yet.. I don't believe we should be voting claimed villager at this point. I know nights are busy around this place... Is this our best bet? To lynch a non rolled up villager?

unvote raven
Vote britrock

Can I ask why?

[path12]

timmae, both brit and I have claimed village but I think you've got to pick one.

Everybody claims village, right? Well, except Vaimes and fontisian who will claim town. I don't get this at all.

[EagleFan]

You claimed vt. Do you want me to lynch you?

You want to lynch me so it doesn't matter what I want.

[JAG]

Vanilla townies, sorry.

While that's true, the alternative is a guaranteed death at some point rather than a theoretical one.

[cheekimonk]

Everybody claims village, right? Well, except Vaimes and fontisian who will claim town. I don't get this at all.

timmae said he didn't want to vote claimed village on D1. That's why he moved from brit to Raven.

[fontisian]

You want to lynch me so it doesn't matter what I want.
You could try convincing me that you're town.

[timmae]

Raven is a non vote right now. I read most evil in Brit. Cheeks would be less vocal as evil after the last few games. EF seems like good EF. Without the last minute seer shenanigans.

[timmae]

I also think evil EF would go right after me first thing after last game.

[path12]

timmae said he didn't want to vote claimed village on D1. That's why he moved from brit to Raven.

That's a weird reason then because everybody claims village!

Why are we voting Brit?

Anyone interested in switching to EF?

[path12]

I could go Cheeki but I'd rather go EF. There you go then,

VOTE EAGLEFAN

[EagleFan]

You could try convincing me that you're town.

I have no reason to convince you anything.

[Vaimes]

Come on, guys. Love yourself. More votes on EF.

[EagleFan]

Screw it...

unvote brit

[EagleFan]

Let the wolves run the show...

[fontisian]

Let the wolves run the show...
This is not town!EF. He was not this bitter when he was run up as the seer.

[fontisian]

Switch your votes, people!

[EagleFan]

This is not town!EF. He was not this bitter when he was run up as the seer.

:lol:

[path12]

Count?

[fontisian]

Britrock 5-JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Cheekimonk(287), Timmae(293)
Cheekimonk 4-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237)
EagleFan 4-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[JAG]

I think it's 5-5-4 brit-EF-cheek.

[fontisian]

Someone from Brit, come on.

[path12]

Wait. font has 5 4 4, jag has 5 5 4.

??

[JAG]

Font is right

[path12]

OK then.

[cheekimonk]

unvote britrock88
vote EagleFan

[fontisian]

JAG, you can't seriously tell me you think EF is town here.

[cheekimonk]

Time, please!!

[Autumn]

JAG, you can't seriously tell me you think EF is town here.

You can't seriously be this sure of yourself day one.

[EagleFan]

vote cheek

[cheekimonk]

Dammit, Zinto!

[Zinto]

Deadline

[path12]

Welp, that was interesting. Nice save EF.

[JAG]

Crap.

[cheekimonk]

That was bullshit.

[Zinto]

Dammit, Zinto!


All votes marked 10:00 would count even if I prematurely post Deadline.

[cheekimonk]

If we're not dead, EF should be tomorrow.

[Zinto]

Day One Vote Count

Cheekimonk 5-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path(318), Cheekimonk(333)
Britrock 4- JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Timmae(293)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[path12]

If we're not dead, EF should be tomorrow.

Eh, give him props. I had forgotten he had his vote hanging out there. I'd have done the same thing.

[path12]

Eh, give him props. I had forgotten he had his vote hanging out there. I'd have done the same thing.

Of course, I wasn't the one that got tied up so I don't want to minimize that.

[cheekimonk]

Eh, give him props. I had forgotten he had his vote hanging out there. I'd have done the same thing.

It wasn't the move at the end. If I hadn't swapped he could have gotten a double lynch tying up brit and I.

[path12]

We don't know what it is, do we? I couldn't tell by the rules.

[Zinto]

Day One Results

After a day of looking at each other funny you decide that the hidden member of Team Rocket must be either Cheekimonk, or Eaglefan. You struggle to reach a consensus and in the end you guys cannot decide. The only way that you will figure it out is through a Pokemon battle.

EagleFan sends out his Doduo while Cheekimonk counters with his Poliwag. It is a close battle but eventually Eaglefan's Doduo wears out Cheekimonk's Poliwag. With no more Pokemon remaining Cheekimonk black's out and is sent on his way.

Cheekimonk was a vanilla villager.

[EagleFan]

Past deadline, before day 2. Not really the time to be talking about the game.

[timmae]

Poor cheeki.

[Zinto]

Night One Results

You wake up to find Britrock running around looking for his misplaced Pokeballs. As he searches every corner of the camp it starts to dawn on you that Team Rocket has struck again. With no Pokemon to train on the journey Britrock starts to make his way home.

Britrock was a Vanilla Villager.

[Zinto]

Day Two Deadline is 10 PM Tuesday

[fontisian]

Vote EagleFan

Round two.

[JAG]

Vote EF

[JAG]

Not a fan of pulling a tie at the end with unpredictable results if you're really a vanilla villager.

[path12]

There was really no big push at the end. Two of the three were villagers. Might have been all three.

[timmae]

3 horse race with 2 vanillas getting axed. Not a good start.

[EagleFan]

Was hoping we would both have been killed so it would end the questions right away.

vote Shoveler

He has piggy back voting. Thank them for going after brit, now it means that there were 3 villagers being voted for so that can be analyzed properly.

vote nightfall

Not putting myself through another day of BS so if you want to vote for me, vote for me. Kill me please.

[path12]

I'm going to look in different directions.

VOTE TIMMAE

[fontisian]

I'm going to look in different directions.

VOTE TIMMAE
Ok. Why?

[EagleFan]

3 horse race with 2 vanillas getting axed. Not a good start.

3 vanilla horse race. Analyze it based on that. I was actually hoping that we would both get killed when I switched. That way the voted could be analyzed accordingly.

[EagleFan]

Look at Shoveler. Says he will be around all day and basically only comes back after that gets questioned and then for a piggy back vote.

[fontisian]

Look at Shoveler. Says he will be around all day and basically only comes back after that gets questioned and then for a piggy back vote.
Or, we could look at you.

[EagleFan]

The f***ing vote nightfall and be done with your crappy read.

[The Jackal]

Well sorry cheeki, guess I need to absorb more of your style

[EagleFan]

Please f***ing kill me!!! Learn the error of your way.

[The Jackal]

Brit was an odd choice, definitely helps us with vote analysis

[EagleFan]

I'm out. Good luck village but at this point, Go whatever team font isn't on!!!

[The Jackal]

Please f***ing kill me!!! Learn the error of your way.

You'll probably get your wish..

[EagleFan]

Then please have the stones to vote nightfall.

If this wasn't the second game in a row that I was a day one lynch I would have said screw it and fell on my sword.

[path12]

Ok. Why?

I think the wolves made a mistake with the nightkill. I think they killed Brit because they figured that EF would be the cinch target for day 2. And if we don't lynch EF today I cannot imagine a situation where we would not know if he was a wolf by day 3.

So if I think that's what they think, I don't see the point in lynching EagleFan today.

As to why timmae, all I can say is that I thought I noticed a tell with him last game when we were bad, and I believe I caught a similar tell today. Recently acquired hunch let's say.

[path12]

Then please have the stones to vote nightfall.

If this wasn't the second game in a row that I was a day one lynch I would have said screw it and fell on my sword.

You're making it hard to give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you might cool off for a bit.

[The Jackal]

You're making it hard to give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you might cool off for a bit.

+1

[timmae]

Path, I don't know what your tell is but it is off. I am vanilla villager like I said.

Nightfall votes are never good. I need to look harder at EF and want to hear from shoveler. What a friggin D1.

[path12]

Day One Vote Count

Cheekimonk 5-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path(318), Cheekimonk(333)
Britrock 4- JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Timmae(293)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)




Another interesting thing is that if we posit that all three top vote getters were village, to me it makes those votes that were a) early and b) not moved more significant than they might be normally.

[path12]

Path, I don't know what your tell is but it is off. I am vanilla villager like I said.

They often are, but I tend to dial them in eventually.

[path12]

I would like to hear from Shoveler as well and get his thoughts on the day/night.

[EagleFan]

Day One Vote Count

Cheekimonk 5-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path(318), Cheekimonk(333)
Britrock 4- JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Timmae(293)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[Shoveler]

Look at Shoveler. Says he will be around all day and basically only comes back after that gets questioned and then for a piggy back vote.

Not really sure what a piggy back vote is, could you explain? I moved my vote from cheeki as he had a healthy lead and my vote was on him from the previous evening. In reality it was a non-vote, it was placed with no intent to stick and I felt trapped with it in the afternoon during the early 3 way tie. I moved my vote to you after the run on cheeki, which at the time put you in third place I believe.

But yes I wasn't around like I thought I would be. I was following along on my phone, and when pressed I went to my pc and posted a response. Not going to make excuses for my lack of participation, it simply did not work out as I had foreseen this morning.

[path12]

Well, at least you're here now. What do you make of the voting?

[EagleFan]

Shoveler, why have you sat on your vote on me from the start?

Was actually just about to remove it to get us back to even.

Unvote: Cheekimonk

Vote: Eaglefan

I'm not seeing the cheeki or brit votes. I think Eagle is just being random like the past two games, but at least that is something to go on.

This... look at this closely. Seems like he was quick to be "talked out" of his vote on cheek and then votes me but it is really a piggy back vote with a paper thin reason. Like he is setting up an excuse for a way out if he gets called on it.

[fontisian]

This... look at this closely. Seems like he was quick to be "talked out" of his vote on cheek and then votes me but it is really a piggy back vote with a paper thin reason. Like he is setting up an excuse for a way out if he gets called on it.
I could see that argument if Cheeki had flipped scum.

[EagleFan]

Vote EagleFan

Round two.

Nightfall!!!!

[EagleFan]

Okay, this is my last post. The wolves made a mistake going after brit (in my opinion). Capitalize on that.

As I said before. Good luck village, unless font is a villager. In that case go other team.

[Shoveler]

Well, at least you're here now. What do you make of the voting?

I did not get a bad feel from any of them to be honest. EF went toe to toe with Font for a few posts, but that was the only weird behavior I identified, and it really wasn't much to go off of after how EF has played on day 1 in the past game or so.

As for the night, why kill one of the lead vote getters? It would make more sense to me to leave brit around to draw votes today.

[path12]

Okay, this is my last post. The wolves made a mistake going after brit (in my opinion). Capitalize on that.

As I said before. Good luck village, unless font is a villager. In that case go other team.

Christ. Now I remember why I get burnt out on this game so easily.

[Shoveler]

Someone mentioned in a previous game a personal rule or something to that effect about when pressed a villager is more likely to become irrational. That's sort of where I'm seeing EF at this point.

[Raven]

Then please have the stones to vote nightfall.

If this wasn't the second game in a row that I was a day one lynch I would have said screw it and fell on my sword.

I feel your frustration. This is the hard part about this game for me, and why I tend to avoid being a deciding vote on D1. D1 votes always seem arbitrary, yet people push if you are indecisive. (Like they have a whole lot to go on to begin with).

With that said, I won't be voting for EF today. I don't believe font's reads are the end-all, and I've been the victim of her "just fucking vote for Raven" attack before. Ultimately this is a game, a VERY time consuming game, and people deserve the opportunity to play it. If we keep pushing the same people out early, they'll stop playing.

[Narcizo]

Meh! to way that all went down. Lucky that the tie didn't result in a no-lynch.

But killing Brit was a very odd move by the wolves. I think EVERYONE should put their thinking caps on and come up with reasons why the wolfies would apparently help the village out that way. My initial thought is that it's to condemn or exhonerate (depending on his allegiance) EagleFan. My second thought is that it indicates a team of newer players or, at least, that any veteran wasn't around to help decide. My third thought is that the wolves were on cheeki and wanted to show that they weren't the only ones voting village.

[Narcizo]

Well I just looked at the voting results and I think it's safe to discount number three as that would have to be three out of Chief, Raven, Jackal and Eagle. Can't see them writing off on taking out Brit for reason three. Reason one is still a thing though.

[Narcizo]

Fonti - your conviction reminds me an awful lot of villager-me after day three or so. I don't see how you can be so certain that someone is a wolf so early.

For what it's worth I'm kind of opposed to Eagle even being an issue today. I think there's a decent chance that he has been scanned (I hope not but it seems like a possibility). If Eagle is village and has been scanned, then stringing him up removes one of our cleared guys. And there's the risk of the seer accidentally revealing themselves by defending/going after Eagle to hard if he has scanned him.

[Narcizo]

Day One

#57 Vaimes votes Grover (1)
#58 EagleFan votes Vaimes (1)
#59 Jag votes Britrock (1)
#61 Font votes Eagle (1)
#62 Cheeki votes timmae (1)
#63 Shoveler votes Cheeki (1)
#63 timmae votes Path (1)

#68 Autumn votes Narcizo (1)
#71 Vaimes unvotes Grover (0), votes Eagle (2)
#77 Jackal votes Vaimes (2)
#87 Narcizo votes Jag (1)
#96 Eagle unvotes Vaimes (1), votes Font (1)
#99 timmae votes Autumn (1)
#103 Autumn unvotes Narc (0), votes Shoveler (1)
#104 Grover votes Jackal (1)

#107 Autumn unvotes Shoveler (0), votes Britrock (2) / Brit 2, Eagle 2
#115 Britrock votes Vaimes (2) / Brit 2, Eagle 2, Vaimes 2
#130 Cheeki unvotes timmae (0), votes Grover (1) / Brit 2, Eagle 2, Vaimes 2
#133 Path votes Cheeki (2) / Cheek 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2, Vaimes 2
#150 Cheeki unvotes Grover (0), votes Font (2) / Cheek 2, Font 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2, Vaimes 2
#160 Jackal unvotes Vaimes (1), votes Cheeki (3) / Cheek 3, Font 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2
#171 Raven votes Autumn (2) / Cheek 3, Font 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#179 Cheeki unvotes Font (1), votes Vaimes (2) / Cheek 3, Vaimes 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#192 Narc unvotes Jag (0), votes Brit (3) / Cheek 3, Brit 3, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#193 Path unvotes Cheeki (2) votes Brit (4) / Brit 4, Cheek 2, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2

#205 Autumn unvotes Brit (3), votes Cheeki (3) / Brit 3, Cheek 3, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#206 Eagle unvotes font (0), votes Vaimes (3) / Brit 3, Cheek 3, Vaimes 3, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#210 timmae unvotes Autumn (1), votes Brit (4) / Brit 4, Cheek 3, Vaimes 3, Eagle 2
#214 Raven unvotes Autumn (0), votes Cheeki (4) / Brit 4, Cheek 4, Vaimes 3, Eagle 2
#221 Cheeki unvotes Vaimes (2), votes Brit (5) / Brit 5, Cheek 3, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2
#226 Chief votes Cheeki (5) / Brit 5, Cheek 5, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2
#237 Brit unvotes Vaimes (1), votes Cheeki (6) / Cheek 6, Brit 5, Eagle 2
#240 Path unvotes Britrock (4) / Cheek 6, Brit 4, Eagle 2

#254 Timmae unvotes Brit (3), votes Raven (1) / Cheek 6, Brit 3, Eagle 2
#260 Autumn unvotes Cheeki (5), votes Brit (4) / Cheek 5, Brit 4, Eagle 2
#262 Shoveler unvotes Cheeki (4) / Cheek 4, Brit 4, Eagle 2
#264 Shoveler votes Eagle (3) / Cheek 4, Brit 4, Eagle 3
#265 Eagle unvotes Vaimes (0), votes Cheeki (5) / Cheek 5, Brit 4, Eagle 3
#268 Cheeki unvotes Brit (3), votes Eagle (4) / Cheek 5, Eagle 4, Brit 3
#278 Eagle unvotes Cheek (4), votes Brit (4) / Cheek 4, Eagle 4, Brit 4
#287 Cheeki unvotes Eagle (3), votes Brit (5) / Brit 5, Cheeki 4, Eagle 3

#293 timmae unvotes Raven (0), votes Brit (6) / Brit 6, Cheeki 4, Eagle 3
#318 Path votes Eagle (4) / Brit 6, Cheeki 4, Eagle 4
#321 Eagle unvotes Brit (5) / Brit 5, Cheeki 4, Eagle 4
#333 Cheeki unvotes Brit (4), votes Eagle (5) / Eagle 5, Cheeki 4, Brit 4
#337 Eagle votes Cheeki (5) / Eagle 5, Cheeki 5, Brit 4

Results

Cheekimonk 5 - The Jackal (160), Raven (214), Chief Rum (226), Britrock (237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian (61), Vaimes (71), Shoveler (264), Path (318), Cheekimonk (333)
Britrock 4- JAG (59), Narcizo (192), Autumn (260), Timmae (293)
The Jackal 1 -Grover (104)

[Narcizo]

Trying out a new / old thing (Hoops used to do it a bit like this). Can't say I like it to be honest so I'll probably be switching back.

[Narcizo]

For what it's worth I'm kind of opposed to Eagle even being an issue today. I think there's a decent chance that he has been scanned (I hope not but it seems like a possibility). If Eagle is village and has been scanned, then stringing him up removes one of our cleared guys. And there's the risk of the seer accidentally revealing themselves by defending/going after Eagle to hard if he has scanned him.

Just realised that there's a simultaneous day and night deadline, which means that Eagle probably wasn't scanned, unless someone rolled the dice on some meaty conditional instructions. So that puts him back on the table for discussion today. Ignore me. It's generally best.

[Narcizo]

So why take out Brit? I've just realised that this is an occasion where the time stamps are actually pertinent and it's the one time I've missed them. Sorry about that.

1) Night deadline is the same time as day deadline. I forgot this because it never effects me but it's very important in this case.
2) Brit was leading the vote until 1 minute before lynch. He had been leading from #287 (21:19), when cheeki switched from Eagle to him. He was very much in the reckoning from 260 (20:48) when Autumn moved from Cheeki to him. In fact Brit was a strong candidate in the race from the me-and-Path double-whammy at #192/193, hours before.

So the wolves feel the need to take out one of the leading vote-getters and someone who looked like they were going to be lynched until last minute shenanigans - and I would argue that the kill order can't have been influenced by the last minute change as it seems doubtful they would have time to react to it and change their order appropriately.

Don't actually know what to make of that information. But I have to go for a bit now so I'll have a think about it.

[Grover]

Morning gents and lady. Catching up from yesterday...

[Grover]

Was hoping we would both have been killed so it would end the questions right away.

vote Shoveler

He has piggy back voting. Thank them for going after brit, now it means that there were 3 villagers being voted for so that can be analyzed properly.

vote nightfall

Not putting myself through another day of BS so if you want to vote for me, vote for me. Kill me please.

So I do this same thing in the last game and get strung up for it. Nobody says a word of protest when EF does it.

[Grover]

For the record, I think EF is a villager. His posting looks very similar to the rant I went on last week until I got a grip on reality.

Voting him off today would be a mistake. I'm going to look into those pushing hard for him to be lynched.

[JAG]

I don't understand the brit night kill myself, unless he said something that seemed like a tell about a role (I haven't read back on his posts).

[timmae]

So I do this same thing in the last game and get strung up for it. Nobody says a word of protest when EF does it.

Hey! I said something... :)

[Zinto]

As of Post 402

EagleFan 2-Fontisian(355), Jag(356)
Shoveler 1-EagleFan(360)
Timmae 1-Path(361)

Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[Shoveler]

My initial thought is that it's to condemn or exhonerate (depending on his allegiance) EagleFan.

Trying to frame EF seems most likely to me, although it feels very obvious.


So the wolves feel the need to take out one of the leading vote-getters and someone who looked like they were going to be lynched until last minute shenanigans - and I would argue that the kill order can't have been influenced by the last minute change as it seems doubtful they would have time to react to it and change their order appropriately.

To be honest, I was expecting you or font to get taken out.

[Narcizo]

I don't understand the brit night kill myself, unless he said something that seemed like a tell about a role (I haven't read back on his posts).

Well he was on the block until 9:59 so it would have to be a pretty damned solid read to believe that when he didn't reveal at any stage. For that to work it would have to be an early read and then the wolves weren't around going into the last hour or so. I don't think wolves around near deadline would think he could be seer and not reveal when his head is on the block at 9:58.

[Narcizo]

Another interesting thing is that if we posit that all three top vote getters were village, to me it makes those votes that were a) early and b) not moved more significant than they might be normally.

Yeah I used to think that. That said I think wolf-people are savvy enough to move their vote around even if it's all village.

[Shoveler]

Well he was on the block until 9:59 so it would have to be a pretty damned solid read to believe that when he didn't reveal at any stage. For that to work it would have to be an early read and then the wolves weren't around going into the last hour or so. I don't think wolves around near deadline would think he could be seer and not reveal when his head is on the block at 9:58.

So if the wolves felt they had a read on brit earlier in the day, we know now that they were wrong.

If they did not have a read on brit, why take him out?

[Narcizo]

So if the wolves felt they had a read on brit earlier in the day, we know now that they were wrong.

If they did not have a read on brit, why take him out?

Well, that's kind of the question I've been asking myself all day. If someone does find an early read then that would be interesting as it suggests (to me at least) wolves who weren't around near deadline.

The obvious answer seems to be setting up Eagle and/or cheeki. The wolves don't know who is going to die when they put in the order so it would have to be a conditional - "kill cheeki unless he is lynched, in which case kill Brit". I'm struggling to see why a wolf Eagle would put in that order.

[Grover]

The obvious answer seems to be setting up Eagle and/or cheeki. The wolves don't know who is going to die when they put in the order so it would have to be a conditional - "kill cheeki unless he is lynched, in which case kill Brit". I'm struggling to see why a wolf Eagle would put in that order.

Very interesting theory.

I am absolutely convinced that EF is not a wolf. He would not have called for nightfall if he were.

However, I don't necessarily buy his "piggybacking" read on Shoveler.

[Narcizo]

I'm going to fall back on voting for the guy with least posts at the moment. A vote on Autumn that I questioned him about, an explanation that he wanted to see how "things play out" and then moving it to cheeki, with non-committal explanation about feeling better about the other lead-getters at the time. I'd say the most significant comment is offering support to Eagle last night but, at the time, that might have been the wise wolf-play - if they were expecting the village to take out Eagle anyway. Also the (admittedly vague) theory of an inexperienced/not-around-at-deadline wolf team.

Mostly a prod vote though.

Vote Raven

[Narcizo]

Yeah, I'm crap at role-reading but I don't see any seer hints from Brit. Role discussion has been more on the table than usual because of Vaimes but pretty much nothing. He hard-claimed vanilla villager at 19:10. I don't think the wolves thought Brit was the seer. In fact I'd go as far as saying that he would be one of the last people I'd kill if I was seer-hunting.

Brit posted reading Vaimes and Chief as neutral-to-good for what it's worth.

[Raven]

I'm going to fall back on voting for the guy with least posts at the moment. A vote on Autumn that I questioned him about, an explanation that he wanted to see how "things play out" and then moving it to cheeki, with non-committal explanation about feeling better about the other lead-getters at the time. I'd say the most significant comment is offering support to Eagle last night but, at the time, that might have been the wise wolf-play - if they were expecting the village to take out Eagle anyway. Also the (admittedly vague) theory of an inexperienced/not-around-at-deadline wolf team.

Mostly a prod vote though.

Vote Raven

I have to run my son to day care, so I'll be back shortly to address this. But that last sentence was not my theory, someone else theorized that not me.

[Chief Rum]

Chief is one of those people I can never get a sense of.

I have heard this a few times from a number of posters. Strangely enough, I don't know why this is. I don't have a strategy devised to make me hard to read. Just Chief being Chief, I guess.

[Chief Rum]

My experience with the two is

Doctor > can protect one person per Night; cannot self-protect; may protect the same person multiple Nights in a row

Bodyguard > can protect one person per Night; will die or lose ability if target is shot

Your experience notwithstanding, the BG here at FOFC usually survives the attack and retains their ability to protect.

[Chief Rum]

I'm not expecting free townreads based on my claim. If anything, I expected there to be disagreements, although some of them are pretty bad, the primary offender being: "if you don't get shot we're going to lynch you!" because that is such a Wolfy thing to do.

I said that last earlier when I didn't fully understand the role, and I thought your strategy was to actually come out as the Martyr. If you were indeed the Martyr and not night killed that night, I think it's quite logical to lynch you at that point.

That doesn't mean I won't lynch you on general principle, though. Your strategy only works to confuse the village, and so to my thinking, you are currently a negative for the village. That and your support for font's over the top run at EF.

[Chief Rum]

Can we lynch EF? Please?

Why? I don't understand why you are coming at him so hard. Even if you're actually the seer, you still wouldn't know anything. You get some whiff of a read and then you marry yourself to it like concrete bricks on a mafia rat in the Hudson.

Your blind pursuit and lack of consideration for any other options is a detriment to the village. Right now, I view your actions as a negative to the village, and if I don't get a wolf read on someone, I will likely vote you.

[path12]

Trying out a new / old thing (Hoops used to do it a bit like this). Can't say I like it to be honest so I'll probably be switching back.

FWIW I find that style useful but if you're the one doing them you should do whatever you find most comfortable.

[path12]

To be honest, I was expecting you or font to get taken out.

Why? Not picking on you but I don't know how you think yet.

[path12]

Yeah I used to think that. That said I think wolf-people are savvy enough to move their vote around even if it's all village.

But you've suggested yourself that the Brit kill suggests wolves that may not be that experienced.

[Chief Rum]

Everybody claims village, right? Well, except Vaimes and fontisian who will claim town. I don't get this at all.

Exactly. New people/transports from other boards, pay attention here.

We have been playing so long, we don't even claim to be villagers anymore at the start, unless pressed. It used to be this joke that our first post would always claim vanilla villager. We even lynched people who didn't do this!

We have now gravitated to just assuming everyone is presumed to be a villager (no need to state it) unless they say otherwise or do something to cast doubt on that presumption.

[Chief Rum]

Come on, guys. Love yourself. More votes on EF.

Ditto my statement on font. It's a toss up between you two for me because I don't think either of you are helping the village.

[path12]

I have heard this a few times from a number of posters. Strangely enough, I don't know why this is. I don't have a strategy devised to make me hard to read. Just Chief being Chief, I guess.

I think it serves you well.

[Chief Rum]

You can't seriously be this sure of yourself day one.

Huge +1.

There are no mechanics in the game which would allow font to be that sure before the first deadline. If I am wrong and there are hidden mechanics, I would love for her to come out and explain.

[Raven]

Also the (admittedly vague) theory of an inexperienced/not-around-at-deadline wolf team.

Mostly a prod vote though.

Vote Raven


My second thought is that it indicates a team of newer players or, at least, that any veteran wasn't around to help decide.

For that to work it would have to be an early read and then the wolves weren't around going into the last hour or so. I don't think wolves around near deadline would think he could be seer and not reveal when his head is on the block at 9:58.

If someone does find an early read then that would be interesting as it suggests (to me at least) wolves who weren't around near deadline.



I'm paraphrasing your quotes here, but...
Why did you put this theory on me, when YOU are actually the one who keeps suggesting it?

[Chief Rum]

Not a fan of pulling a tie at the end with unpredictable results if you're really a vanilla villager.

Neither am I. If I didn't get a villager read on EF's frustration after this, I would also be very much questioning this move.

[path12]

I'm paraphrasing your quotes here, but...
Why did you put this theory on me, when YOU are actually the one who keeps suggesting it?

Narc can answer for himself but I didn't read what he wrote as putting his theory on you. Rather, I read it as just another reason to toss his vote your way.

[Chief Rum]

Was hoping we would both have been killed so it would end the questions right away.

vote Shoveler

He has piggy back voting. Thank them for going after brit, now it means that there were 3 villagers being voted for so that can be analyzed properly.

vote nightfall

Not putting myself through another day of BS so if you want to vote for me, vote for me. Kill me please.

I actually am wondering on Shoveler as well. Shoveler and Grover, who went early and completely off the chart from candidates with his Autumn vote. Perhaps he was busy after the morning, but it is an odd outlier vote that sounds traditionally wolfish to me.

Now as to the nightfall. That's chickenshit, EF. You're better than that.

I understand the irritation, but you got to handle it better.

[path12]

I love reading along when someone is catching up. Sometimes I find things I missed.

[Chief Rum]

Look at Shoveler. Says he will be around all day and basically only comes back after that gets questioned and then for a piggy back vote.

I see Shoveler has come back to responding to this, but EF's point resonates with me for some reason. Life gets in the way, but sometimes it's a strategy to hide behind. So it is something I am considering.

[Chief Rum]

I did not get a bad feel from any of them to be honest. EF went toe to toe with Font for a few posts, but that was the only weird behavior I identified, and it really wasn't much to go off of after how EF has played on day 1 in the past game or so.

As for the night, why kill one of the lead vote getters? It would make more sense to me to leave brit around to draw votes today.

I generally find that not commenting at all when you're around and a big debate is going around is wolfish behavior, keeping a low profile while the villagers fight it out. So whatever the reason, it looks bad to not be participating.

If I didn't know I was at my other job from 4-ish on and unable to be online, I would look askance at my own history of non-participation yesterday evening. It just doesn't look good.

As to your last point and I see Narc raises it later, it is a very curious move for sure.

[Chief Rum]

Just realised that there's a simultaneous day and night deadline, which means that Eagle probably wasn't scanned, unless someone rolled the dice on some meaty conditional instructions. So that puts him back on the table for discussion today. Ignore me. It's generally best.

I agree that EF probably wasn't scanned, given the circumstances. I don't agree that should put him back on the block. I just think it delays his scan to tonight.

[Grover]

CR: I mentioned a couple of times yesterday I wasn't going to be around past 5PM EST, due to my bowling league. That will happen again tonight.

That's why my innocuous vote on Jackal never moved.

[Chief Rum]

So why take out Brit? I've just realised that this is an occasion where the time stamps are actually pertinent and it's the one time I've missed them. Sorry about that.

1) Night deadline is the same time as day deadline. I forgot this because it never effects me but it's very important in this case.
2) Brit was leading the vote until 1 minute before lynch. He had been leading from #287 (21:19), when cheeki switched from Eagle to him. He was very much in the reckoning from 260 (20:48) when Autumn moved from Cheeki to him. In fact Brit was a strong candidate in the race from the me-and-Path double-whammy at #192/193, hours before.

So the wolves feel the need to take out one of the leading vote-getters and someone who looked like they were going to be lynched until last minute shenanigans - and I would argue that the kill order can't have been influenced by the last minute change as it seems doubtful they would have time to react to it and change their order appropriately.

Don't actually know what to make of that information. But I have to go for a bit now so I'll have a think about it.

Great post.

Even more at issue is that even if Zinto allowed the wolves to make conditionals based on the lynch results, he wouldn't have told them what happens in a tie. Just how many conditionals would have had to be sent in this situation?

No, I think brit was targeted for a kill earlier than the deadline. That said, it seems clear the wolves wanted to take out a leading vote getter, since brit was high on the block most of the day. Doing so seems to be nonsensical. My only thought is that they might have gotten a seer read off of him and decided that was more important. And that would mean EF is not a wolf because they would not leave a wolf EF as the one surviving candidate with two villagers in a three-man lynch vote (at least not to kill a possible seer on a whim--they would have held off and killed brit the next night).

[Chief Rum]

So I do this same thing in the last game and get strung up for it. Nobody says a word of protest when EF does it.

Trust me, no one likes it. I posted it after you posted this, but a few posts up on this one, I call out EF for his move. It's a crap move, and I can't stand it.

It's just a game, people.

[Chief Rum]

Well he was on the block until 9:59 so it would have to be a pretty damned solid read to believe that when he didn't reveal at any stage. For that to work it would have to be an early read and then the wolves weren't around going into the last hour or so. I don't think wolves around near deadline would think he could be seer and not reveal when his head is on the block at 9:58.

Good point. That just makes the move even more curious.

It would like worse for EF to me, but I just don't read his reactions to being targeted as being wolfish. EF is brilliant and he could be playing us with this, but I don't think so. We have all been there, feeling helpless that no one will listen to what we're saying or seems to be against us for no reason at all.

It might be for meta-ish reasons, but what font said she had heard is true: villagers tend to get very irrational when targeted. And often upset and do emotional things.

[Shoveler]

Yep I completely understand that my intended participation yesterday versus the actual participation looks bad. I will try to rectify that going forward, but if it is to late, I guess it will be a lesson learned.

That being said. I'll be paying attention to the thread for the next couple hours, but I'm taking my son outside and then making him lunch. So I wont be at the computer to post. I guess I need to be more specific when I say I am "around". I can answer any questions and make comments once he goes down for a nap in a couple hours.

[Chief Rum]

Why? Not picking on you but I don't know how you think yet.

Shoveler, I would like to hear more of your thoughts on this too (path's response above is in response to Shoveler)

[Chief Rum]

I think it serves you well.

Double-edged sword actually. It stops people from lynching me early, because they don't want to risk losing both a possible roled player and an experienced player.

But at some point, they vote to remove me on the basis that they can't trust me, even when I am a full on villager. That and the circular reasoning that if I am still alive after Day Three, I must be a wolf lol.

[Chief Rum]

I love reading along when someone is catching up. Sometimes I find things I missed.

Heh... hope it helps!

[Zinto]

As of Post 439

EagleFan 2-Fontisian(355), Jag(356)
Shoveler 1-EagleFan(360)
Timmae 1-Path(361)
Raven 1-Narcizo(410)

Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[Chief Rum]

CR: I mentioned a couple of times yesterday I wasn't going to be around past 5PM EST, due to my bowling league. That will happen again tonight.

That's why my innocuous vote on Jackal never moved.

WOLF!!! :D

Okay, I kinda remember that but forgot.

[Chief Rum]

And forgive me not looking back, Grover, but why The Jackal? Regular meta/no-read Day One vote?

[Chief Rum]

Or Autumn, whoever you voted for. I forget and I don't have the vote list handy here.

[Raven]

It might be for meta-ish reasons, but what font said she had heard is true: villagers tend to get very irrational when targeted. And often upset and do emotional things.

This. I've been there. I saw CF do it in the Mars game. I saw Grover do it when he called for nightfall. I saw GE respond this way when voted out early twice in a row (though he Duked the first game). And it seems to be EF's response here. It's an annoyed "fk this stupid game. I quit." emotional response to being lynched when you're a villager and no one believes you.

[Shoveler]

Why? Not picking on you but I don't know how you think yet.

Based on a conversation i had with autumn while we ran the last game. I made the comment to him that font and narc seemed to draw the early night kills. He basically told me that was standard wolf procedure to take out the villagers that were the highest threats early. Chief was also mentioned as a top 3 target.

[Grover]

And forgive me not looking back, Grover, but why The Jackal? Regular meta/no-read Day One vote?

Because he's a Redskins fan.

Just the random vote to get discussion going. No other reason.

[Raven]

Narc can answer for himself but I didn't read what he wrote as putting his theory on you. Rather, I read it as just another reason to toss his vote your way.

This thought came to me too, but only after I realized it was his own theory. When I originally read it, and without knowing whose theory it was, it sounded like he was pinning it on me since it was all lumped together in one paragraph. Regardless, I am glad I clarified, because others may read it the way I originally did.

[path12]

CR: I mentioned a couple of times yesterday I wasn't going to be around past 5PM EST, due to my bowling league. That will happen again tonight.

That's why my innocuous vote on Jackal never moved.

OK. So your last post was #204:

Just a heads up to everyone. I will not be very active, if at all between 5PM EST and the deadline. I've got a bowling league tonight.

Hopefully that doesn't gain me any votes this time around!

Cool. But at that time, here was the vote (piecing together from Narcizo's recap):

Britrock 4 -- JAG (69), Autumn (107), Narc (192), path (193)
Cheeki 2 -- Shoveler (63), Jackal (160)
Vaimes 2 -- Britrock (115), Cheeki (179)
EagleFan 2 -- fontisian (61), Vaimes (71)
Autumn 2 -- timmae (99), Raven (171)
fontisian 1 -- EagleFan (96)
Jackal 1 -- Grover (104)

Things were clearly consolidating. But you still left your vote out there.

[Grover]

Things were clearly consolidating. But you still left your vote out there.

And I felt at the time, that I did not have nearly enough information to go off of to make a solid vote.

Not seeing the board again until after deadline makes it hard to vote in the end.

[path12]

And I felt at the time, that I did not have nearly enough information to go off of to make a solid vote.

Not seeing the board again until after deadline makes it hard to vote in the end.

But nobody has a solid day 1 read.

And it wasn't like things were switching all over, the last vote before your post #204 was at 12:58 Pacific (mine on Brit). Post 204 was at 1:37 Pacific. The vote contenders were taking shape and you just decided not to, and that raises an eyebrow for me.

[Grover]

But nobody has a solid day 1 read.

And it wasn't like things were switching all over, the last vote before your post #204 was at 12:58 Pacific (mine on Brit). Post 204 was at 1:37 Pacific. The vote contenders were taking shape and you just decided not to, and that raises an eyebrow for me.

Or, I can jump on and vote for someone else during the day and perhaps get labeled as "piggybacking" my vote like someone else apparently did and raise an eyebrow.

*Shrug* Sorry for my inactivity.

[path12]

Passive aggressiveness is always an attractive look.

[Grover]

Passive aggressiveness is always an attractive look.

Okay, then let me ask you this. How exactly was "voting consolidating"

Anybody could have flipped to Jackal and made him a possible front runner to brit.

Just because in hindsight people had made their final choices at that time, it doesn't mean that we knew it was consolidating, as you say it was. It still could have gone any number of possible ways.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, then let me ask you this. How exactly was "voting consolidating"

Anybody could have flipped to Jackal and made him a possible front runner to brit.

Just because in hindsight people had made their final choices at that time, it doesn't mean that we knew it was consolidating, as you say it was. It still could have gone any number of possible ways.

The Jackal didn't have even one vote when you voted for him. Assuming path's count is correct, there was a 4 vote candidate and several 2 vote candidates to go with. You could have even pushed up one of the one vote candidates to create another 2 vote candidate.

path is correct that your vote has the look of someone trying to avoid making a vote he can be judged for after the lynch.

[Narcizo]

This thought came to me too, but only after I realized it was his own theory. When I originally read it, and without knowing whose theory it was, it sounded like he was pinning it on me since it was all lumped together in one paragraph. Regardless, I am glad I clarified, because others may read it the way I originally did.

Yeah, sorry about that. What path said. I tend not to be at my clearest after the better part of the day talking to myself.

I don't think we'll get much explanation into Brit being killed until after the game but at the moment I'm leaning towards inexperienced wolf/ves around at the time possibly with experienced wolf/ves not available. Of course I fit that profile as well but hey ho.

[Raven]

Day One

#57 Vaimes votes Grover (1)
#58 EagleFan votes Vaimes (1)
#59 Jag votes Britrock (1)
#61 Font votes Eagle (1)
#62 Cheeki votes timmae (1)
#63 Shoveler votes Cheeki (1)
#63 timmae votes Path (1)

#68 Autumn votes Narcizo (1)
#71 Vaimes unvotes Grover (0), votes Eagle (2)
#77 Jackal votes Vaimes (2)
#87 Narcizo votes Jag (1)
#96 Eagle unvotes Vaimes (1), votes Font (1)
#99 timmae votes Autumn (1)
#103 Autumn unvotes Narc (0), votes Shoveler (1)
#104 Grover votes Jackal (1)

#107 Autumn unvotes Shoveler (0), votes Britrock (2) / Brit 2, Eagle 2
#115 Britrock votes Vaimes (2) / Brit 2, Eagle 2, Vaimes 2
#130 Cheeki unvotes timmae (0), votes Grover (1) / Brit 2, Eagle 2, Vaimes 2
#133 Path votes Cheeki (2) / Cheek 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2, Vaimes 2
#150 Cheeki unvotes Grover (0), votes Font (2) / Cheek 2, Font 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2, Vaimes 2
#160 Jackal unvotes Vaimes (1), votes Cheeki (3) / Cheek 3, Font 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2
#171 Raven votes Autumn (2) / Cheek 3, Font 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#179 Cheeki unvotes Font (1), votes Vaimes (2) / Cheek 3, Vaimes 2, Brit 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#192 Narc unvotes Jag (0), votes Brit (3) / Cheek 3, Brit 3, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#193 Path unvotes Cheeki (2) votes Brit (4) / Brit 4, Cheek 2, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2

#205 Autumn unvotes Brit (3), votes Cheeki (3) / Brit 3, Cheek 3, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#206 Eagle unvotes font (0), votes Vaimes (3) / Brit 3, Cheek 3, Vaimes 3, Eagle 2, Autumn 2
#210 timmae unvotes Autumn (1), votes Brit (4) / Brit 4, Cheek 3, Vaimes 3, Eagle 2
#214 Raven unvotes Autumn (0), votes Cheeki (4) / Brit 4, Cheek 4, Vaimes 3, Eagle 2
#221 Cheeki unvotes Vaimes (2), votes Brit (5) / Brit 5, Cheek 3, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2
#226 Chief votes Cheeki (5) / Brit 5, Cheek 5, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2
#237 Brit unvotes Vaimes (1), votes Cheeki (6) / Cheek 6, Brit 5, Eagle 2
#240 Path unvotes Britrock (4) / Cheek 6, Brit 4, Eagle 2

#254 Timmae unvotes Brit (3), votes Raven (1) / Cheek 6, Brit 3, Eagle 2
#260 Autumn unvotes Cheeki (5), votes Brit (4) / Cheek 5, Brit 4, Eagle 2
#262 Shoveler unvotes Cheeki (4) / Cheek 4, Brit 4, Eagle 2
#264 Shoveler votes Eagle (3) / Cheek 4, Brit 4, Eagle 3
#265 Eagle unvotes Vaimes (0), votes Cheeki (5) / Cheek 5, Brit 4, Eagle 3
#268 Cheeki unvotes Brit (3), votes Eagle (4) / Cheek 5, Eagle 4, Brit 3
#278 Eagle unvotes Cheek (4), votes Brit (4) / Cheek 4, Eagle 4, Brit 4
#287 Cheeki unvotes Eagle (3), votes Brit (5) / Brit 5, Cheeki 4, Eagle 3

#293 timmae unvotes Raven (0), votes Brit (6) / Brit 6, Cheeki 4, Eagle 3
#318 Path votes Eagle (4) / Brit 6, Cheeki 4, Eagle 4
#321 Eagle unvotes Brit (5) / Brit 5, Cheeki 4, Eagle 4
#333 Cheeki unvotes Brit (4), votes Eagle (5) / Eagle 5, Cheeki 4, Brit 4
#337 Eagle votes Cheeki (5) / Eagle 5, Cheeki 5, Brit 4

Results

Cheekimonk 5 - The Jackal (160), Raven (214), Chief Rum (226), Britrock (237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian (61), Vaimes (71), Shoveler (264), Path (318), Cheekimonk (333)
Britrock 4- JAG (59), Narcizo (192), Autumn (260), Timmae (293)
The Jackal 1 -Grover (104)


These numbers are wrong in some places, which makes it hard to accurately follow yesterday's action. cheeki jumped from 3 to 5 in one vote (see below). Not sure how many other errors there are. I'd fix it and repost, but I am at work and don't have the time to redo all the color coding. Anyone want to take on this task?

#221 Cheeki unvotes Vaimes (2), votes Brit (5) / Brit 5, Cheek 3, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2
#226 Chief votes Cheeki (5) / Brit 5, Cheek 5, Vaimes 2, Eagle 2

[Narcizo]

Okay, then let me ask you this. How exactly was "voting consolidating"

Anybody could have flipped to Jackal and made him a possible front runner to brit.


I recognise your problem as its what I face all the time. My strategy is to always move my vote to someone who already has votes if my vote is a sole vote. Unless I feel strongly that my vote is right or all the other votes are wrong. It took me a fair few games to hone this strategy though and its far from ideal but thats the price I pay for, once upon a time, playing an American Football sim.

[Grover]

The Jackal didn't have even one vote when you voted for him. Assuming path's count is correct, there was a 4 vote candidate and several 2 vote candidates to go with. You could have even pushed up one of the one vote candidates to create another 2 vote candidate.

path is correct that your vote has the look of someone trying to avoid making a vote he can be judged for after the lynch.

Again. Jackal was my original vote when we all had nothing to go on. Like everybody else making votes to make votes.

If this is how people are going to look at things when personal obligations get in the way, this is going to be my last WW game.

[fontisian]

YesterDay, EF was the best lynch candidate, because he was scummy while britrock and cheeki were blatantly town.

ToDay, he is near confirmed scum. Read these posts and tell me he isn't.
Screw it...

unvote brit
Let the wolves run the show...
vote cheek

Now there are two possible explanation for that unvote and revote seconds before the deadline.
1. EF's had genuinely given up on the game, only to come back and try to help town, as he claims here:
3 vanilla horse race. Analyze it based on that. I was actually hoping that we would both get killed when I switched. That way the voted could be analyzed accordingly.
This explanation doesn't make sense because both lynch targets getting killed in a tie isn't actually that common of a result. Other possible results, that EF are aware of, include a. one of the two dying, b. some random person not being lynching dying and c. a no lynch. Two of those four possibilities are really bad.

2. He is scum, he unvoted in the hopes that he would be able to revote at the last second and tie up the lynch, with any luck at least killing town!Cheeki.

"But, fonti, if EF did that, wouldn't he come into Day 2 acting like he was a dead man?"

You're right, other font. And that's exactly what he did:
Was hoping we would both have been killed so it would end the questions right away.

vote Shoveler

He has piggy back voting. Thank them for going after brit, now it means that there were 3 villagers being voted for so that can be analyzed properly.

vote nightfall

Not putting myself through another day of BS so if you want to vote for me, vote for me. Kill me please.
The attempt to end Day early with the nightfall vote, and to goad me into doing the same, removing valuable time for the town to get information, was done because EF knew he outed himself.

I don't want to go into his mood, because, IMO, losing your shit like this as a scum tactic is a really shitty thing to do. It puts me into a position where if I want to push my case on someone who seems like obvious scum, I have to question the truth behind their feelings, and if I'm wrong, then I'm being a dick to them. I will say that CF did the same thing in the rebirth game to stop people from voting him.

[Chief Rum]

Again. Jackal was my original vote when we all had nothing to go on. Like everybody else making votes to make votes.

If this is how people are going to look at things when personal obligations get in the way, this is going to be my last WW game.

What path is saying is that there was enough evidence of the direction of the vote out there when you posted that you would be leaving for the day at 2 p.m. EST or whatever it was, for you to switch from an irrelevant Day One vote to a vote on a player who at that point was a candidate (many such candidates were available).

No one has more personal obligations than me. I work a second job where I can't post late and I am never on at deadline. But I still usually manage to get my vote on someone at least somewhat relevant.

I'll give you a pass that you're newer and that this isn't necessarily a wolfish move, but a newbie move, but path is entirely correct that you left your vote on a random player when better options were available.

[Shoveler]

Again. Jackal was my original vote when we all had nothing to go on. Like everybody else making votes to make votes.

If this is how people are going to look at things when personal obligations get in the way, this is going to be my last WW game.

I wouldn't get to worked up over this. It's the nature of the game to review all the available information, ask questions, and what not. Just play the game to the best of your availability.

[Grover]

vote fontisian

Simply based on her aggressive, nearly ruthless attacking on EF being a wolf. I believe EF is innocent and that font is covering for herself by continually going after EF.

[Chief Rum]

font, if he is playing a game to set himself up as a wolf with you as his foil, then he chose well. You allowed the hypothetical wolf EF to jump on your ardent and unwavering pursuit of him by not sitting back and making the long play and seeing what information develops. You locked on him like a Patriot missile and kept hammering that nail over and over.

You made yourself look way over the top when we ALL know you have no information but your gut. Anyone who goes in on like that, we're not going to trust you. If EF has played up the victim role, it is because of your incessant attacks on him.

So I am not buying that he is a wolf. And that's pretty much your fault.

[fontisian]

It might be for meta-ish reasons, but what font said she had heard is true: villagers tend to get very irrational when targeted. And often upset and do emotional things.
I never actually said this, because it's not, strictly speaking, true.

The reaction to pressure entirely depends on the player. I've seen wolves genuinely fall apart, wolves fake falling apart, and townies lose it in equal numbers. When the mindset doesn't match up, and the reaction doesn't fit with their previous play, then I start to get suspicious.

[timmae]

As far as out of game commitments... I let it affect my thinking once in an early game and I regretted it immediately. We all have lives that get in the way. I will take any posted OOG commitments into account when analyzing. Until someone shows that they cannot be trusted (i.e. uses an OOG item to their advantage) that is. Grover's statement yesterday (and for tonight) is noted. I don't hold bowling against him (I grew up in Wisconsin after all!).

[fontisian]

vote fontisian

Simply based on her aggressive, nearly ruthless attacking on EF being a wolf. I believe EF is innocent and that font is covering for herself by continually going after EF.
Aggression is not a scumtell. Ever.

Let's try this. Why do you think EF is town?

[Chief Rum]

I never actually said this, because it's not, strictly speaking, true.

The reaction to pressure entirely depends on the player. I've seen wolves genuinely fall apart, wolves fake falling apart, and townies lose it in equal numbers. When the mindset doesn't match up, and the reaction doesn't fit with their previous play, then I start to get suspicious.

Suspicious is fine. Rock solid in your conviction, on Day One, with no objective evidence and constantly posting and re-posting your opinion?

That just comes off way nutty. I'm not following crazy to the promised land, sorry.

[Raven]

No one has more personal obligations than me. I work a second job where I can't post late and I am never on at deadline.

Try bouncing/feeding a (nearly) 5 month old on your knee and typing with one finger on a phone with your other hand while the baby constantly grabs for the phone! lol

[The Jackal]

Very interesting theory.

I am absolutely convinced that EF is not a wolf. He would not have called for nightfall if he were.

However, I don't necessarily buy his "piggybacking" read on Shoveler.

Catching up - I don't know about EF not calling nightfall as a wolf. I wouldn't discount anyone from trying it if they felt cornered, especially with it getting attention as a villager move recently.

[Chief Rum]

Try bouncing/feeding a (nearly) 5 month old on your knee and typing with one finger on a phone with your other hand while the baby constantly grabs for the phone! lol

Haha okay, Raven takes it. ;)

[fontisian]

font, if he is playing a game to set himself up as a wolf with you as his foil, then he chose well. You allowed the hypothetical wolf EF to jump on your ardent and unwavering pursuit of him by not sitting back and making the long play and seeing what information develops. You locked on him like a Patriot missile and kept hammering that nail over and over.

You made yourself look way over the top when we ALL know you have no information but your gut. Anyone who goes in on like that, we're not going to trust you. If EF has played up the victim role, it is because of your incessant attacks on him.

So I am not buying that he is a wolf. And that's pretty much your fault.
You can't be serious. Chief, do you have any idea how often I die night one? I sat back and didn't pursue timmae last game, even though I strongly suspected he was scum, and lo and behold, I was shot night one and he coasted to endgame. What a shock.

I cannot afford to let things slip by, and I'm glad I didn't here, when my pressure on EF is the reason he was forced to out himself as scum yesterDay.

You cannot seriously decide not to follow a good case because the person making it has too much conviction. That's insane.

[fontisian]

Suspicious is fine. Rock solid in your conviction, on Day One, with no objective evidence and constantly posting and re-posting your opinion?

That just comes off way nutty. I'm not following crazy to the promised land, sorry.
Surety is a form of pressure. When you attack someone with conviction, they are more likely to slip up.

YesterDay, I was almost certain that EF was a better lynch than Cheeki and brit, because he had acted in an increasingly scummy manner while Cheeki and brit had been very town. I acted on that certainty. Deal with it.

[Shoveler]

Try bouncing/feeding a (nearly) 5 month old on your knee and typing with one finger on a phone with your other hand while the baby constantly grabs for the phone! lol

Damn. We're expecting twins in a few months. I better find a mind controlled phone now.

[Grover]

Aggression is not a scumtell. Ever.


Says you. Everyone has a different playstyle.

Why should I immediately believe what you're saying here?

[fontisian]

Says you. Everyone has a different playstyle.

Why should I immediately believe what you're saying here?
Here's a quote from a mentor chat with Voxxicus, someone who's opinion on the game I respect immensely.

[quote]I can name one thing that I do NOT think is a scum tell that I keep seeing people over here paint as one, though:

'Bloodthirsty'.

I keep being accused of being this word when I'm town. And I think it's more indicative of a town mindset than a scum one, to be honest. Scum tend to shy away from accountability when it comes to lynching people, and have more...self-awareness than to have that kind of attitude towards lynching.[quote]

Source: Prophhicus Mentor QT Thing - QuickTopic free message board hosting (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/7kGVD8Jkh4dX)

Can you tell me why you think EF is town?

[Raven]

Damn. We're expecting twins in a few months. I better find a mind controlled phone now.

Awesome. Congrats! (and good luck with the phone!)

[Grover]

Because absolutely nothing EF has done has convinced me that he could be a wolf.

[Chief Rum]

You can't be serious. Chief, do you have any idea how often I die night one? I sat back and didn't pursue timmae last game, even though I strongly suspected he was scum, and lo and behold, I was shot night one and he coasted to endgame. What a shock.

I cannot afford to let things slip by, and I'm glad I didn't here, when my pressure on EF is the reason he was forced to out himself as scum yesterDay.

You cannot seriously decide not to follow a good case because the person making it has too much conviction. That's insane.

If it's a good case, I will follow it. But you didn't make a good case. You went on a hunch. I don't trust your hunches. I don't find that you are right enough to follow them. You see conviction. I see a narrow and closed mind who won't consider any information which doesn't agree with your initial impression.

I have played many times with players with your approach and more often than not, it's bad to follow such players.

Rely on the evidence.

[Chief Rum]

Surety is a form of pressure. When you attack someone with conviction, they are more likely to slip up.

YesterDay, I was almost certain that EF was a better lynch than Cheeki and brit, because he had acted in an increasingly scummy manner while Cheeki and brit had been very town. I acted on that certainty. Deal with it.

And that is why you will lose.

[Chief Rum]

Damn. We're expecting twins in a few months. I better find a mind controlled phone now.

Awesome. Congrats Shoveler!

[fontisian]

If it's a good case, I will follow it. But you didn't make a good case. You went on a hunch. I don't trust your hunches. I don't find that you are right enough to follow them. You see conviction. I see a narrow and closed mind who won't consider any information which doesn't agree with your initial impression.

I have played many times with players with your approach and more often than not, it's bad to follow such players.

Rely on the evidence.
I can accept you calling yesterDay a hunch, even if you are wrong. But toDay? After that last minute vote?

No. EF is scum.

[fontisian]

I'm not sure I can express how insulting it is to be told to "rely on the evidence," when I've outlined the evidence for an EF lynch and no evidence to oppose it has been offered other that that I'm "aggressive."

[Chief Rum]

I can accept you calling yesterDay a hunch, even if you are wrong. But toDay? After that last minute vote?

No. EF is scum.

He struck me as someone who was very frustrated with being attacked again on the hunch of someone who is, frankly, an aggravating player to receive attention from. He didn't strike me as someone operating on reason and rationality. That first vote was made on frustration. The second vote was an attempt to save himself.

Ties at FOFC are often no lynches, so it makes sense to me that EF was betting on that when he made that vote.

[Chief Rum]

I'm not sure I can express how insulting it is to be told to "rely on the evidence," when I've outlined the evidence for an EF lynch and no evidence to oppose it has been offered other that that I'm "aggressive."

Deal with it?

[Autumn]

I think the kill on Britrock most likely simply indicates someone putting in the kill earlier in the day and not being around at deadline. I'm not going to dig further than that because I don't think it's fun to catch people in that sense, but he would have been a fairly safe choice a couple hours earlier, and he's a strong villager. He also has played at the BGG site, so may be more familiar to those players than some of us who have only played here.

I am actually learning toward EF. I think he could be just as frustrated as a wolf, after getting put in the lead two Day 1s in a row. It's even more frustrating when you get picked out of a hat as a wolf. Probably a decent target for not having been scanned last night too.

[path12]

I'm very surprised you're still where you are at, fontisian.

[Raven]

Here's a quote from a mentor chat with Voxxicus, someone who's opinion on the game I respect immensely.

[quote]I can name one thing that I do NOT think is a scum tell that I keep seeing people over here paint as one, though:

'Bloodthirsty'.

I keep being accused of being this word when I'm town. And I think it's more indicative of a town mindset than a scum one, to be honest. Scum tend to shy away from accountability when it comes to lynching people, and have more...self-awareness than to have that kind of attitude towards lynching.[quote]

Source: Prophhicus Mentor QT Thing - QuickTopic free message board hosting (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/7kGVD8Jkh4dX)

Can you tell me why you think EF is town?

That play style may fit your personality, but it doesn't fit for most of us. Also, I do not think it comes across the way you think it comes across.

Also, we know that you're smart enough not to play bloodthirsty only as villager and something different when wolf. That would be completely transparent.

[Zinto]

As of Post 486

EagleFan 2-Fontisian(355), Jag(356)
Shoveler 1-EagleFan(360)
Timmae 1-Path(361)
Raven 1-Narcizo(410)
Fontisian 1-Grover(462)

Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[The Jackal]

We have a vote count?

[The Jackal]

Mind reading eh

[fontisian]

He struck me as someone who was very frustrated with being attacked again on the hunch of someone who is, frankly, an aggravating player to receive attention from. He didn't strike me as someone operating on reason and rationality. That first vote was made on frustration. The second vote was an attempt to save himself.

Ties at FOFC are often no lynches, so it makes sense to me that EF was betting on that when he made that vote.
The problem with that is the word "again."

I haven't attacked EF before this game. In fact, I townread him for the past two games. We have already discussed this in this thread.

If EF was betting on a no-lynch, why did he say he was hoping for a lynch on both him and Cheeki?

[fontisian]

That play style may fit your personality, but it doesn't fit for most of us. Also, I do not think it comes across the way you think it comes across.

Also, we know that you're smart enough not to play bloodthirsty only as villager and something different when wolf. That would be completely transparent.
So, your argument is that it's not alignment indicative for me?

[fontisian]

I'm very surprised you're still where you are at, fontisian.
Why?

[timmae]

You can't be serious. Chief, do you have any idea how often I die night one? I sat back and didn't pursue timmae last game, even though I strongly suspected he was scum, and lo and behold, I was shot night one and he coasted to endgame. What a shock.

I cannot afford to let things slip by, and I'm glad I didn't here, when my pressure on EF is the reason he was forced to out himself as scum yesterDay.

You cannot seriously decide not to follow a good case because the person making it has too much conviction. That's insane.

I still feel bad about that font. Nothing personal. ;)

I actually think strong convictions one way or the other are fine as long as people aren't pushing their views by overriding others' thoughts.

[Raven]

So, your argument is that it's not alignment indicative for me?

If you were playing every game with a different set of players, it would make sense. But, at FOFC, you're playing every game with roughly the same set of players.

I don't believe you will play bloodthirsty every time you are a villager and completely different when a wolf. If you did, you'd blow your cover every time you were wolf.

[path12]

Why?

Because you are smart enough to know that the wolves messed up on the nightkill, the EF situation resolves itself without a lynch and the better value for the village is trying to suss out who was hiding where on what could very well be a three way village vote yesterday.

So for me your motivations for pushing EF today come into question.

[The Jackal]

lots of meetings today, will chime in some later

[Autumn]

Where is Vaimes?

[Grover]

Where is Vaimes?

Lurking, it would appear.

[fontisian]

Because you are smart enough to know that the wolves messed up on the nightkill, the EF situation resolves itself without a lynch and the better value for the village is trying to suss out who was hiding where on what could very well be a three way village vote yesterday.

So for me your motivations for pushing EF today come into question.
How exactly does the EF situation get resolved without a lynch?

I suspect the britrock kill was either made because they thought he was the seer or made to make EF look good. I don't care to analyze a kill that I have relatively little information about.