WW-Pokemon Day Three Deadline 4/15 10 PM

[Zinto]

Hello there welcome to the world of Pokémon. My name is Zinto. People call me the Pokémon Prof. This world is inhabited by creatures called Pokémon. For some people Pokémon are pets. Others use them for fights. Myself…I study Pokémon for a living.

This will be a basic game of werewolf with an awesome Pokemon theme. What more could you ask for?


Basic Werewolf Rules:
1. No editing of posts
2. No quoting of private messages
3. No discussion of the game outside of the thread

Voting:
To vote for someone bold your vote and put it into a separate line

Vote Zinto

To change your vote simply post an unvote and a new vote

Unvote Zinto
Vote Zinto

You may vote nightfall but once you do you cannot change it

Vote Nightfall

You may vote No Lynch

Vote No Lynch

Deadlines:
Lynch and Night Deadline are at 10 PM EST
Votes and Actions marked 10:01 will not be accepted

Roles will be announced based on number of players

Tie Breaker

You do not know what will happen if you tie a lynch vote

Roles

Red(The Seer)-One of the many kids starting their Pokemon journey. He is the hero of our story and has a knack of knowing who his friends and enemies are.
Blue(The Martyr)-Professor Zinto's grandson and the Red's rival. Even though he is arrogant he is willing to protect others even if he ends up harmed.

Team Rocket-Three members of Team Rocket have been tasked with stealing these newbie trainers Pokemon.

Win Conditions:

The Pokemon trainers want to eliminate all of the Team Rocket members while the Team Rocket members need to reach parity.

[Zinto]

First what is your name?

1. Timmae
2. Grover
3. Shoveler(Imtownachu)
4. The Jackal
5. Autumn
6. Britrock(buttface-Vanilla Villager Night Killed Night One
7. Chief Rum-Vanilla Villager Night Killed Night Two
8. Cheekimonk-Vanilla Villager Lynched Day One
9. Narcizo
10. Fontisian (Absol)
11. Eaglefan
12. JAG
13. Path
14. Raven-Wolf Lynched Day Two
15. Vaimes(Jigglypuff)

[timmae]

In!! (it's all about Pikachu!)

[Grover]

vote zinto

IN!

[timmae]

I forbid Grover from self voting and then nightfalling in this game... lol.

[Shoveler]

In, Not familiar with pokemon names.. I looked up a list and I'll go with Imtownachu.

[The Jackal]

I don't know jack about Pokemon but I'm in

[Chief Rum]

It is going to be a busy week for me this week. Is this game starting this week? Or is the plan to start Monday next week?

If next week, I can play. If this week, I may need to be a spectator for this one.

[Autumn]

In.

[The Jackal]

In, Not familiar with pokemon names.. I looked up a list and I'll go with Imtownachu.

Are we supposed to pick one?

[Grover]

Are we supposed to pick one?

Did his joke in the Pokemon name go over your head ;)

[timmae]

Are we supposed to pick one?

Not sure... I am thinking maybe not but I was just stating a fact in my post. It is indeed all about Pikachu... ;)

[britrock88]

Buttface is in. :p

[Chief Rum]

Buttface is in. :p

I would let EF speak for himself.

So are you in? :devil:

[Zinto]

It is going to be a busy week for me this week. Is this game starting this week? Or is the plan to start Monday next week?

If next week, I can play. If this week, I may need to be a spectator for this one.


I am shooting for next monday to start. That way the weekend doesn't sap momentum early.

[Chief Rum]

Cool. I can play next Monday. I'm in.

[Zinto]

Are we supposed to pick one?


No need to pick a pokemon. I just copied the intro text to the original games and used it for my intro.:)

[The Jackal]

Did his joke in the Pokemon name go over your head ;)

Haha, yes it did. Yes it did.

[timmae]

I would let EF speak for himself.

So are you in? :devil:

+1!!

[cheekimonk]

In

[Narcizo]

Ok. My son is occasionally into pokemon so I'm aware of the basics.

[Autumn]

I'm ready to force creatures I find to fight themselves to death for my own amusement and benefit. That is my understanding of Pokemon.

[The Jackal]

I think my biggest exposure to Pokemon was a Robot Chicken episode

[Zinto]

I'm ready to force creatures I find to fight themselves to death for my own amusement and benefit. That is my understanding of Pokemon.

Hahah you pretty much know Pokemon

[Zinto]

It looks like not enough of you were kids in the late 90s early 00s

[timmae]

It looks like not enough of you were kids in the late 90s early 00s

I was a kid when John Schneider was jumping orange cars in Hazzard County.

[fontisian]

So, I can't be Absol?

In.

[Shoveler]

I was a kid when John Schneider was jumping orange cars in Hazzard County.

exactly.. and william shattner was running around as TJ Hooker.

[Grover]

It looks like not enough of you were kids in the late 90s early 00s

Thankfully, no.

[EagleFan]

In

[EagleFan]

vote timmae

[EagleFan]

I would let EF speak for himself.

So are you in? :devil:

:rant:

[JAG]

In. Also know nothing of Pokemon.

[timmae]

vote timmae

Similar to last game I will not be voting Day 1 for anyone who ran the previous game. Having said that, EF and Jackal are fair game (again in the case of EF!). :)

[path12]

Sign me up please.

[Zinto]

Signups are going well but I would love a few more!

[Raven]

In.

[The Jackal]

14 is a nice floor for a simple game, still time for more!

[Vaimes]

Super in.

[Vaimes]

Ugh, fonti keeps bugging me to pick a Pokemon.

Jigglypuff.

[Grover]

Ugh, fonti keeps bugging me to pick a Pokemon.

Jigglypuff.

Worst. Smash Bros. Character. Ever.

[fontisian]

Fun fact: In melee, if you position yourself on the edge of the stage and time a shield correctly, you can send rollout spammers twirling to their deaths.

[Zinto]

Worst. Smash Bros. Character. Ever.


Hahahha

[Zinto]

It seems like I overestimated how much time would be needed to get a decent number of participants. I am used to the dead werewolf forum.

[timmae]

We are not dead... At least not yet.

[EagleFan]

We are not dead... At least not yet.

Obviously a wolf with that kind of post.

vote timmae

[Vaimes]

Worst. Smash Bros. Character. Ever.

Don't be a hater.

[timmae]

Obviously a wolf with that kind of post.

vote timmae

Why do I get the feeling my shelf life is about 26 hours in this game?!?! :)

[EagleFan]

Why do I get the feeling my shelf life is about 26 hours in this game?!?! :)

:)

[cheekimonk]

Not very familiar with Pokemon, but I think my username is reasonably believable.

[Zinto]

Saturday bump. The rules will be finalized tomorrow and roles will be sent!!

[EagleFan]

Great, timmae's been acting like a wolf, soon I can officially vote for him...

:devil:

[timmae]

Woohoo! Better than lynching the seer D1 EF!! ;)

[Zinto]

Roles are updated and PMs are going to start going out soon. Please do not post until I start the game.

[Zinto]

Vanilla Villager Role PM:

You are a young Pokemon trainer who is just starting your journey. With aspirations of becoming a Pokemon master nothing will stand in your way!

[Zinto]

A new group of trainers are starting their journey on the road to becoming Pokemon masters. Hailing from a bunch of towns around the region all of the trainers are meeting at the Pokemon center. With reports of Team Rocket stealing Pokemon of new trainers it is safer to travel together.

Unfortunately, the first night that all of you camped together Yellow's Pikachu was stolen from him as he slept. Team Rocket must have infiltrated your group and the only way to figure it out is to battle the most suspicious members.

Day One will end Monday 4/13 at 10 PM EST

[Vaimes]

I kind of really wanted to be on Team Rocket. Oh well.

Vote Grover

Jigglypuff haters need to go.

[EagleFan]

Vanilla pokething checking in.

...and for no reason other than he was first to vote...

vote Vaimes

[JAG]

Vote Britrock

Hi folks.

[JAG]

Or Pokemen, if that's the group name.

[fontisian]

Vote Eaglefan

Sort of serious, but not really, vote.

[cheekimonk]

Checking in. And for convincing me to give him that Ter'Angeal thingy then vaporizing me...

vote timmae

[Shoveler]

Going to go with my 0.9% gut feel.

VOTE: CHEEKIMONK

[Vaimes]

My RVS votes always land on scum. Everyone should be sheeping me at this point.

[timmae]

Yes... The ter angeal. That was fun! Because he was so ruthless as the true mastermind behind team evil last time out...

vote path

Thankfully I am just a vanilla villager this time out!

[EagleFan]

Going to go with my 0.9% gut feel.

VOTE: CHEEKIMONK

Percentages... I saw what percentages did last game...

[Autumn]

You guys are chumps. My tiny ball that contains a creature is way better than yours. I guess.

[Autumn]

So he'll have something to read when he finally logs on.

vote narcizo

[JAG]

Thankfully I am just a vanilla villager this time out!

Just like all of us.

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 66

Grover 1-Vaimes(57)
Vaimes 1-EagleFan(58)
Britrock 1-JAG(59)
EagleFan 1-Fontisian(61)
Timmae 1-Cheekimonk(62)
Cheekimonk 1-Shoveler(63)
Path 1-Timmae(65)

[Vaimes]

What a boring votal.

Unvote
Vote EagleFan

[fontisian]

What a boring votal.

Unvote
Vote EagleFan
A wild sheep appears.
a) Accept it gratefully
b) Vote them
c) Throw a rock
d) Run

[Vaimes]

It's a combination of sheeping + RVS omgus.

[Vaimes]

Also, that response makes me want to townread you.

[The Jackal]

nothing will stand in my way

[The Jackal]

except, presumably, an army of little fighting creatures

[The Jackal]

vote vaimes

[fontisian]

vote vaimes
This random or serious?

[The Jackal]

This random or serious?

he put on the first second vote, erego he must be a wolf

[cheekimonk]

"erego"? Wasn't that a Datsun model?

[EagleFan]

This random or serious?

How "serious" can an early day one vote be?

Interesting, that is the only vote she asks about...

[JAG]

I find it interesting we get to know the total number of wolves. I know it's common for a number of varieties of games but there's usually more ambiguity.

See? I read the rules this time. I think I've got it under control.

[fontisian]

How "serious" can an early day one vote be?

Interesting, that is the only vote she asks about...
It was the only vote that looked serious and was on my only townread.

My vote on you just became completely serious, by the way.

[JAG]

Zinto

If we vote No Lynch, does that option have to have the majority to take effect or does it need to be unanimous?

[JAG]

How "serious" can an early day one vote be?

Interesting, that is the only vote she asks about...

For three people they can be pretty serious.

[Vaimes]

I find it interesting we get to know the total number of wolves. I know it's common for a number of varieties of games but there's usually more ambiguity.

See? I read the rules this time. I think I've got it under control.

Speaking of this, I'm gonna go ahead and claim Martyr for wine. Town should ignore this claim because it does not affect them, and the scumteam should watch out for me in the Night.

[Narcizo]

Zinto

If we vote No Lynch, does that option have to have the majority to take effect or does it need to be unanimous?

Why would we want to vote No Lynch? Unless we're 3:1 or something. In which case we would ask then. What's with having two posts to show that you've read the rules?

Vote JAG

That's right! We've got a new flavour of the month wolf-hunter. I can vote you day one now.

[fontisian]

Narc, can you explain that post a little more clearly?

[Narcizo]

So he'll have something to read when he finally logs on.

vote narcizo

Because I only read stuff about myself. How well you know me. :redface:

[Narcizo]

Narc, can you explain that post a little more clearly?

Two posts to show that he's read the rules suggests that he's making an effort to show interest and it looks like pseudo village-helpful content. (I'm sure there's a handy pseudonym for that). He'd normally make a post about the number of wolves we can expect seems like he's following a comfort-pattern.

The second bit is to acknowledge that I normally wouldn't vote JAG on day one but I'm feeling frisky today.

[fontisian]

Ok. I have townreads on Vaimes, Narc and timmae in that order.

[JAG]

Why would we want to vote No Lynch? Unless we're 3:1 or something. In which case we would ask then. What's with having two posts to show that you've read the rules?

Vote JAG

That's right! We've got a new flavour of the month wolf-hunter. I can vote you day one now.

The 3:1 situation is what I was thinking of actually.

The rule comment was for path, because he was laying into me last time I played as I messed up twice on a very simple ruleset and he said I must be a wolf because I would never show such a lack of attention to detail as a villager.

[JAG]

Going to be mostly missing from the middle of the day most days, first week at a new job.

[EagleFan]

Good luck with the job.

[EagleFan]

It was the only vote that looked serious and was on my only townread.

My vote on you just became completely serious, by the way.

She amuses me...

[EagleFan]

unvote vaimes

Vote font

[Narcizo]

unvote vaimes

Vote font

Is this just a case of "she's pissed me off so I'm voting her", or is that actually any reason to switch to her?

[timmae]

Going to be mostly missing from the middle of the day most days, first week at a new job.

Congrats bud!

[timmae]

Ok, getting away from my meta. Autumn's post was a bit off, trying to poke fun maybe but seemed odd.

vote autumn

[Grover]

Good morning!

Checking in!

[Autumn]

Ok, getting away from my meta. Autumn's post was a bit off, trying to poke fun maybe but seemed odd.

"trying" to poke fun? Man, pour some salt on it why don't you. Also *poke* fun, I get it!

[Autumn]

The second bit is to acknowledge that I normally wouldn't vote JAG on day one but I'm feeling frisky today.

TMI

[Autumn]

Having woke Narc up I will vote my former co-mod in an attempt to rouse him from his pokeslumber.

unvote narcizo
vote shoveler

[Grover]

VOTE The Jackal

Because he's a Redskins fan. Who does that to themselves? Seriously.

[Narcizo]

As of whatever the hell the time is over there - 08:57?

Vaimes 1 - Jackal(77)
Britrock 1-JAG(59)
EagleFan 2 - Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71)
Timmae 1 - Cheekimonk(62)
Cheekimonk 1 - Shoveler(63)
Path 1 - Timmae(65)
JAG 1 - Narcizo (87)
Fontisian 1 - EagleFan (96)
Autumn 1 - timmae (99)
Shoveler 1 - Autumn (103)
Jackal 1 - Grover (104)

No vote yet: Britrock, Chief Rum, Raven.

[Narcizo]

Well, on the plus side, there's a decent chance that a wolf is, at worst, one vote away from a tied lead.

[Autumn]

Oh I was thinking I hadn't seen Shoveler yet.

unvote shoveler
vote britrock88

[Narcizo]

I don't think we saw Shoveler did we? Just the cloud of dust as he droveby.

[Zinto]

Zinto

If we vote No Lynch, does that option have to have the majority to take effect or does it need to be unanimous?


If the majority of players vote No Lynch it will take effect.

[Zinto]

Ok, getting away from my meta. Autumn's post was a bit off, trying to poke fun maybe but seemed odd.

vote autumn


I will count this vote but make sure you Unvote before switching your vote

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 110

Vaimes 1- The Jackal(77)
Britrock 1-JAG(59)
EagleFan 1-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71)
Timmae 1-Cheekimonk(62)
Cheekimonk 1-Shoveler(63)
JAG 1-Narcizo(87)
Fontisian 1-EagleFan(96)
Autumn 1-Timmae(99)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)
Britrock 1-Autumn(107)

[Autumn]

I don't think we saw Shoveler did we? Just the cloud of dust as he droveby.

I just see that he voted. Might as well bug people who haven't yet first.

[britrock88]

nothing will stand in my way

except, presumably, an army of little fighting creatures

I L'd-OL.

[britrock88]

(Buttface checking in.)

[britrock88]

Voting for a Jigglypuff hater hater...

vote Vaimes

[britrock88]

(I can already tell I'll be swamped at work today, so I'll be in and out.)

[Autumn]

It worked!

[Grover]

It worked!

Clearly, you're on to something here.

[britrock88]

It worked!

Shoot, I probably outed myself in the process. :p

[EagleFan]

Is this just a case of "she's pissed me off so I'm voting her", or is that actually any reason to switch to her?

Want to crank the heat up a bit. She got oddly defensive after a vaimes vote and really defensive when that was mentioned. I know that tends to be her MO, but figured I would shake the tree to see what falls out.

[Shoveler]

I don't think we saw Shoveler did we? Just the cloud of dust as he droveby.

I'll be around all day. Wanted to get a post in last night and I didn't get a chance to take a shot at Cheeki for the last game, so yeah my vote is not real serious. But at this point he isn't giving me any real reason to move it.

As for reads, font seems active and engaged like I would expect (drawing from my huge experience pool of 3 games), going with good on her. Narc feels similar to me, good engagement & unbiased contribution, will expect the usual vote analysis after day 1 to feel more confident.

Everyone else is a ? at this point. Not sure about the eagle vote for font. But from what I have seen previously he can be very unpredictable, so I'm not going to read much into that yet.

[The Jackal]

Speaking of this, I'm gonna go ahead and claim Martyr for wine. Town should ignore this claim because it does not affect them, and the scumteam should watch out for me in the Night.

I don't understand this post

[The Jackal]

VOTE The Jackal

Because he's a Redskins fan. Who does that to themselves? Seriously.

HTTR

[cheekimonk]

I'll be around all day. Wanted to get a post in last night and I didn't get a chance to take a shot at Cheeki for the last game, so yeah my vote is not real serious. But at this point he isn't giving me any real reason to move it.

Yeah, but it was a good shot.

[Grover]

HTTR

Hail to Dan Syder's wallet!

Maybe you just have a thing for teams with terrible GMs ;)

[Grover]

I don't understand this post

Is he claiming to be the seer or the bodyguard?

[Grover]

Speaking of this, I'm gonna go ahead and claim Martyr for wine. Town should ignore this claim because it does not affect them, and the scumteam should watch out for me in the Night.

I would like more clarity on this.

Are you claiming a role here?

[path12]

Because he was so ruthless as the true mastermind behind team evil last time out...

I have no idea what you are talking about.... ;)


See? I read the rules this time. I think I've got it under control.


The rule comment was for path, because he was laying into me last time I played as I messed up twice on a very simple ruleset and he said I must be a wolf because I would never show such a lack of attention to detail as a villager.

I caught the reference, but the fact that you felt the need to reassure me right off the bat from something two games ago feels suspicious!

Hi all. I've mentioned before my weeks are frontloaded but I'll be poking my head in as I'm able.

[Raven]

Checking in.

Just caught up on all current posts and will now go read the rules.

[cheekimonk]

Grover is a tad overtly curious below...

unvote timmae
vote Grover

[Grover]

Grover is a tad overtly curious below...

unvote timmae
vote Grover

I was genuinely confused as hell by his post. I've tried sussing it out on my own, but I can't figure it out.

[path12]

BTW font, OOG but I didn't forget I owe you more detail on what I was talking about in that game. Just got distracted, sorry.

[path12]

Grover is a tad overtly curious below...

unvote timmae
vote Grover

I think it is fair to have questions on what is either a true or fake reveal.

VOTE CHEEKIMONK

[Chief Rum]

Sup

[Narcizo]

I think it is fair to have questions on what is either a true or fake reveal.

VOTE CHEEKIMONK

Not seeing much difference between it and claiming vanilla villager. Then again I've always been down on the vanilla "claims" as well, but I thought I was in a minority on that.

[The Jackal]

Grover is a tad overtly curious below...

unvote timmae
vote Grover

Might as well vote for me since it was my question first.. Vaimes' post was confusing. Was it a reveal? It didn't make any sense to me.

[The Jackal]

If he was making a joke about revealing as the Martyr to entice a NK, that went over my head

[fontisian]

Want to crank the heat up a bit. She got oddly defensive after a vaimes vote and really defensive when that was mentioned. I know that tends to be her MO, but figured I would shake the tree to see what falls out.
Really. You thought these were defensive?
This random or serious?
It was the only vote that looked serious and was on my only townread.

My vote on you just became completely serious, by the way.
Vote EagleFan with more force!

BTW font, OOG but I didn't forget I owe you more detail on what I was talking about in that game. Just got distracted, sorry.
I figured you were busy. It's not a big deal.

[Narcizo]

Not seeing much difference between it and claiming vanilla villager. Then again I've always been down on the vanilla "claims" as well, but I thought I was in a minority on that.

That said voting for someone for questioning it does seem a bit tenuous. But is it really something a wolf would do? I'd expect a wolf to be quietly hoping to use it against Vaimes, or more likely not say anything about it and let the village fight over it.

[britrock88]

I don't understand this post

My read: "wine" = WIFOM = "wine in front of me." Basically, the (false) claim is an attempt to distract.

[fontisian]

But what if it isn't false? 0_0

[britrock88]

Vote Count as of Post 140

Vaimes 2-The Jackal(77), Britrock(115)
Britrock 1-JAG(59)
EagleFan 1-Vaimes(71), Fontisian (138)
Cheekimonk 2-Shoveler(63), Path (133)
JAG 1-Narcizo(87)
Fontisian 1-EagleFan(96)
Autumn 1-Timmae(99)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)
Britrock 1-Autumn(107)
Grover 1-Cheekimonk(130)

[fontisian]

Brit, I actually voted for EF in post 61.

[britrock88]

Found a couple derps (one was Zinto's! :D .)

Vote Count as of Post 140

Vaimes 2-The Jackal(77), Britrock(115)
Cheekimonk 2-Shoveler(63), Path (133)
EagleFan 2-Vaimes(71), Fontisian (138)
Britrock 2-JAG(59), Autumn (107)
JAG 1-Narcizo(87)
Fontisian 1-EagleFan(96)
Autumn 1-Timmae(99)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)
Grover 1-Cheekimonk(130)

[britrock88]

Brit, I actually voted for EF in post 61.

True, but didn't you just re-vote above?

[path12]

My read: "wine" = WIFOM = "wine in front of me." Basically, the (false) claim is an attempt to distract.

That's how I read it as well, FWIW.

[britrock88]

(and LHLV doesn't really apply here, anyway, so it's less important than usual...)

[fontisian]

True, but didn't you just re-vote above?
Is joke.

[fontisian]

Here's the actual case against EF.
1. ...and for no reason other than he was first to vote...

vote Vaimes
This is unusually wordy for an RVS vote and feels nervous.

2.How "serious" can an early day one vote be?
The answer is completely serious, something he knows.

3.Interesting, that is the only vote she asks about...
The use of the word "interesting" here, without followup as to what "interesting" means and what's so interesting about it, follows a fairly typical scum wording pattern.

It's also pointing out something that isn't a thing, because Jackal's vote was the only ambiguously early vote in regards to how seriously it was meant to be taken.

5. There's a weird mood switch between these two posts:
She amuses me...
Want to crank the heat up a bit. She got oddly defensive after a vaimes vote and really defensive when that was mentioned. I know that tends to be her MO, but figured I would shake the tree to see what falls out.
Saying "she amuses me" cranks down the heat, if anything. It seems more like an attempt to discredit me and get me to back off than a legitimate expression of suspicion regarding my interactions with Jackal and Vaimes.

[cheekimonk]

I think it is fair to have questions on what is either a true or fake reveal.

VOTE CHEEKIMONK

Fair enough. And good grief!

unvote Grover
vote fontisian

(I feel that's likely to change...)

[fontisian]

It's alright, Charlie Brown.

[timmae]

Just checking back in as I have a doctors apt this afternoon and then need to go buy a new laptop. I'll be checking in via smartphone... thankfully it's only D1. I'll definitely be back for a review prior to the 9pm CST lynch.

[Vaimes]

Like I said, if you're town, my claim is completely irrelevant to you.

Scumteam: I have trueclaimed a PR on Day 1 before, just so you all know.

[The Jackal]

Like I said, if you're town, my claim is completely irrelevant to you.

Scumteam: I have trueclaimed a PR on Day 1 before, just so you all know.

I think my confusion over Vaimes' post might just be down to nomenclature and commonspeak on other WW boards. Like, what does PR stand for?

I guess I just don't understand the benefit for a false claim as one of your first posts on D1. It came off to me more as being serious than a jokey early post. So, I guess you're trying to screw with the wolves and give them something to consider for a N1 kill (which are usually hard to base on in-thread posts and tend to gravitate towards vet players who could theoretically do the most damage if you're looking for a random seer hit). In that event, I guess I get it.

[The Jackal]

I'll never get used to "scum" as the term for wolves. They're wolves, damnit.

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 110

Vaimes 2- The Jackal(77), Britrock(115)
Britrock 2-JAG(59), Autumn(107)
EagleFan 2-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71)
Cheekimonk 2-Shoveler(63), Path(133)
Fontisian 2-EagleFan(96), Cheekimonk(150)
JAG 1-Narcizo(87)
Autumn 1-Timmae(99)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[fontisian]

Jackal: PR means power role, i.e. any role that isn't vanilla.

[The Jackal]

Jackal: PR means power role, i.e. any role that isn't vanilla.

Aha! Thanks. Maybe false claims are more prevalent elsewhere, but I don't recall seeing them very often here - that's what threw me off.

[Autumn]

Yeah, I think that's a move that's a shocker here, but just a culture clash thing.

[The Jackal]

unvote vaimes
vote cheekimonk

[The Jackal]

Partially because of his reaction towards Grover's question, partially for this:


unvote Grover
vote fontisian

(I feel that's likely to change...)

I've done it too, but pre-empting your vote by saying it's likely to change always feels too much like giving yourself loopholes for future explanation.

[EagleFan]

Brit, I actually voted for EF in post 61.

When will you get tired of being wrong? This will be the 3rd game in a row that all I see from you is EF is a wolf!!!! You'll be 0 for 3. I guess if you keep doing that long enough you'll eventually be right (and I bet with a "see I told you" reaction when that eventually happens). Kids today...

I'll never get used to "scum" as the term for wolves. They're wolves, damnit.

Amen bruthah!!!!


Now, as for the reveal from Vaimes, that serves no one any good. If you have a role that would hurt the wolves if they go after you, why tell them?

It looks like someone setting themselves up for an explanation of why they haven't been night killed later in the game.

[fontisian]

When will you get tired of being wrong? This will be the 3rd game in a row that all I see from you is EF is a wolf!!!! You'll be 0 for 3. I guess if you keep doing that long enough you'll eventually be right (and I bet with a "see I told you" reaction when that eventually happens). Kids today...
I thought you were town in the last two games? And I was scum three games ago and looking for mislynches?

What?

[EagleFan]

I thought you were town in the last two games? And I was scum three games ago and looking for mislynches?

What?

This is game number 3. BG two games ago and you came after me day one, luckily there wasn't anyone voting me (seems I had a carry over good will from running the previous game). Last game I was seer and you were leading the charge. Now this game. 0 for 3.

[fontisian]

Uh. No?

I never voted for you in either game. You were actually my strongest townread in Drenai.

[EagleFan]

A rash of false claims doesn't do the village any good. Have seen this happen in other forums and all it ever does it lead to more confusion for the village.

My favorite was a vanilla false claiming seer which led to the duke changing the vote and he ended up lynching the real seer on day one.

[Narcizo]

I'm kind of leaning towards Eagle being village.

I tend to agree about fake reveals. I think the risk is that discussion of roles might lead to a slip up by the actual power roles.

[path12]

I've no problems with the Vaimes true/false claim. Anything that makes it tougher for the wolves is fine by me. I also think it is good to get some new (for our site) strategies in play. I think it works better though with multiple claims.

[The Jackal]

It's my own fault for making it a talking point and thereby potentially being more distracting to the village than wolves, but I agree that it's been nice to get some different styles to mix shit up

[EagleFan]

Uh. No?

I never voted for you in either game. You were actually my strongest townread in Drenai.

My memory seems to be failing, sorry.

[Raven]

vote Autumn

Just to get a 6 way tie going.

[fontisian]

My memory seems to be failing, sorry.
It's all good. I was just really confused by your reaction.

Keeping in mind that I did actually read you correctly in the last two games, what do you think of my case here?

[The Jackal]

vote Autumn

Just to get a 6 way tie going.

I broke it up by putting cheeki on 3 votes

[Narcizo]

I'm guessing the wolves would have discussed Vaimes reveal and would have settled on what the martyr role does. Eagle's apparent intrepretation of the role doesn't fit with what the role means and I find that unlikely if its been discussed by the wolves.

[EagleFan]

It's all good. I was just really confused by your reaction.

Keeping in mind that I did actually read you correctly in the last two games, what do you think of my case here?

You read me correctly two games ago, we were both out early last game so no idea how you read me. As for your read this game, I know it is wrong.

[The Jackal]

I'm guessing the wolves would have discussed Vaimes reveal and would have settled on what the martyr role does. Eagle's apparent intrepretation of the role doesn't fit with what the role means and I find that unlikely if its been discussed by the wolves.

Where are you seeing EF's "apparent interpretation of the role"?

[Narcizo]

vote Autumn

Just to get a 6 way tie going.

Can you say why you think a 6-way tie is a good thing at this stage, Raven?

[Narcizo]

Where are you seeing EF's "apparent interpretation of the role"?

Here.

If you have a role that would hurt the wolves if they go after you, why tell them?

[cheekimonk]

I thought his claim was a joke last night. Agree that the confusion only helps wolves...

unvote fontisian
vote Vaimes

[The Jackal]

Ahh

[The Jackal]

Certainly an interesting choice for a role name with that description, wonder if the confusion was intentional

[britrock88]

A rash of false claims doesn't do the village any good. Have seen this happen in other forums and all it ever does it lead to more confusion for the village.

My favorite was a vanilla false claiming seer which led to the duke changing the vote and he ended up lynching the real seer on day one.

I agree. It's one of the manifestations of "hero play" (almost always by villagers, FWIW) that often sets back the village as a whole. The pro-social play and the best play one can possibly make as an individual don't always line up.

[britrock88]

My memory seems to be failing, sorry.

TBF, she was after you hard in your turn as seer, IIRC.

[britrock88]

vote Autumn

Just to get a 6 way tie going.

WOLFTELL! (lol)

[fontisian]

TBF, she was after you hard in your turn as seer, IIRC.
?

When was this?

[Narcizo]

I thought his claim was a joke last night. Agree that the confusion only helps wolves...

unvote fontisian
vote Vaimes

This is starting to smell of desperation. You seem to have gone 360 on the whole Vaimes thing in the space of a few hours. Going from voting someone for questioning Vaimes to voting for Vaimes.

[Raven]

Can you say why you think a 6-way tie is a good thing at this stage, Raven?

Day 1 and still plenty of time to go. I want to see how things play out when votes start to shift.

[cheekimonk]

This is starting to smell of desperation. You seem to have gone 360 on the whole Vaimes thing in the space of a few hours. Going from voting someone for questioning Vaimes to voting for Vaimes.

Seemed like too obviously questioning something I thought was an obvious joke. Vaimes hasn't helped clear up the confusion since then, however. I'm vanilla village...just trying to read something on D1.

[fontisian]

I think cheeki is town.

[Chief Rum]

I really don't like Vaimes' decision to reveal.

If he is still alive tomorrow, I'll vote for him unless a good candidate shows up. My presumption is the wolves will kill him tonight, because why keep a cleared villager around? Vaimes protecting himself does no good; he'll just die. And going for Vaimes means they won't have a situation where they go somewhere else, Vaimes protects that person and dies, and maybe the target gleans info on them from the kill attempt.

For now, since no one is countering on Vaimes, I will presume he is what he says he is, even if I don't like that he revealed.

If he is a wolf, I hope the actual Martyr is not revealing and dropping hints about Vaimes' wolfishness. It's quite possible this is just an attempt to draw out a reveal.

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 190


Cheekimonk 3-Shoveler(63), Path(133), The Jackal(160)
Vaimes 2- Britrock(115), Cheekimonk(179)
Britrock 2-JAG(59), Autumn(107)
EagleFan 2-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71)
Autumn 2-Timmae(99), Raven(171)
Fontisian 1-EagleFan(96)
JAG 1-Narcizo(87)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[Narcizo]

I've got to go and don't like the candidates at the moment. So I'm torn between layong my vote on one of the leading candidates or, well, not. I always try to vote for someone I reckon will be in the running. My only non-village read of those with more than one vote is Brit but I suspect Jag and Autumn will be moving. Actually Autumn could be a wolf, but I don't think the village benefits from getting rid of one of the more talkative people around on day one. Ah sod it!

unvote JAG
Vote britrock

[path12]

Y'know what? They might be moving but I got a weird vibe from Brit's first posts as well so:

UNVOTE CHEEKIMONK
VOTE BRITROCK88

[Grover]

I'm very torn on Vaimes right now.

If he's claiming immediately, that's either ballsy or stupid.

If he's claiming to throw the wolves off, I think that hurts us. Either he gets lynched tonight, because the wolves don't want to take a chance on him being truthful, or he survives and becomes a huge lynch target for us tomorrow.

I'm torn on him. I don't want to vote for him at this stage though.

[path12]

If he's claiming immediately, that's either ballsy or stupid.

I don't think it is either, but it is an unfamiliar play here and as such I'm in favor as I've mentioned earlier.

[Chief Rum]

I don't think it is either, but it is an unfamiliar play here and as such I'm in favor as I've mentioned earlier.

Unfamiliar to what gain? I can accept not knowing how we play here from a guy with experience playing different sorts of games elsewhere, but I am trying to understand the logic of it from Vaimes the Martyr's point of view.

I don't see the upside to this move.

I won't vote him right now because I don't want to lose one of our two villager roles if we lynch him when he's telling the truth, but I don't like to see nonsensical moves from players in key roles. That move works elsewhere? Great. Does that work here? Not so sure.

[fontisian]

Guys, the roleclaim is just wifom.

It's like me claiming a cop right now. Maybe I am the cop, but odds are I'm not, and me saying so really isn't a predictor of my actual role. Get it?

[Shoveler]

Path, what exactly caused you to move to brit so fast from his early posts?

I'll be honest I didn't like having my initial nonsense vote on cheeki helping put him in the lead, but you flipped right after narc for a reason I cant seem to identify.

[Chief Rum]

Guys, the roleclaim is just wifom.

It's like me claiming a cop right now. Maybe I am the cop, but odds are I'm not, and me saying so really isn't a predictor of my actual role. Get it?

No, I don't get it. What is the strategic value for a villager to do this?

Is WIFOM purely a phrase that came into existence over at BGG? I don't even understand where that idiom comes from (other than the inference that you play the hand you're dealt, I guess).

[path12]

Path, what exactly caused you to move to brit so fast from his early posts?

I'll be honest I didn't like having my initial nonsense vote on cheeki helping put him in the lead, but you flipped right after narc for a reason I cant seem to identify.

I think Brit knows the move Vaimes made and pretended he didn't. I know that vote right after Narc raises eyebrows and as such is not something I'd usually do but I agree with Narc that the early votes on Brit have a possibility of moving and I wanted to at least place it somewhere that I feel decent on day 1 before the possibility was off the table.

Also I was planning on moving off Cheeki anyway because of later posts so it seemed like a good time.

[path12]

Is WIFOM purely a phrase that came into existence over at BGG? I don't even understand where that idiom comes from (other than the inference that you play the hand you're dealt, I guess).

It refers to The Princess Bride, specifically the scene with the two glasses of wine, one of which has been poisoned and which one do you think it is.

[Raven]

No, I don't get it. What is the strategic value for a villager to do this?

Is WIFOM purely a phrase that came into existence over at BGG? I don't even understand where that idiom comes from (other than the inference that you play the hand you're dealt, I guess).

I was confused as well, so I Googled WIFOM and first link explained it. 2nd link was also helpful.

[The Jackal]

Inconceivable!

[Grover]

Just a heads up to everyone. I will not be very active, if at all between 5PM EST and the deadline. I've got a bowling league tonight.

Hopefully that doesn't gain me any votes this time around!

[Autumn]

Gut move

<b>unvote britrock88
vote cheekimonk</b>

[EagleFan]

unvote font

vote Vaimes

Time to consolidate and see what we get.

[Chief Rum]

I was confused as well, so I Googled WIFOM and first link explained it. 2nd link was also helpful.

Okay, so having done this, I still don't know the value of this play, especially in a situation where most of us are not very familiar with Vaimes.

If there is even one wolf who played with Vaimes at BGG or wherever else he plays, then this move is high risk, where you're judging whether or not that person has the experience and knowledge to make a correct read on Vaimes and how he would play this strategy. But chances are the wolves won't have experience with Vaimes, and they will just kill him to eliminate the possibility.

If he is the Martyr, chances are, he just dies tonight and that's a bad move for the village. If he is not the Martyr, then the real Martyr either does or does not protect him. If the Martyr protects him, the Martyr dies and we lose a real role, with no allegiance established for Vaimes. If the Martyr doesn't protect him, then we lose Vaimes, a simple villager.

That last is the best result, as we have no way of stopping a night kill and the wolves will only attack villagers. I could see a small advantage to that last scenario, but not big enough to make this play.

[EagleFan]

Okay, so having done this, I still don't know the value of this play, especially in a situation where most of us are not very familiar with Vaimes.

If there is even one wolf who played with Vaimes at BGG or wherever else he plays, then this move is high risk, where you're judging whether or not that person has the experience and knowledge to make a correct read on Vaimes and how he would play this strategy. But chances are the wolves won't have experience with Vaimes, and they will just kill him to eliminate the possibility.

If he is the Martyr, chances are, he just dies tonight and that's a bad move for the village. If he is not the Martyr, then the real Martyr either does or does not protect him. If the Martyr protects him, the Martyr dies and we lose a real role, with no allegiance established for Vaimes. If the Martyr doesn't protect him, then we lose Vaimes, a simple villager.

That last is the best result, as we have no way of stopping a night kill and the wolves will only attack villagers. I could see a small advantage to that last scenario, but not big enough to make this play.

That drove me crazy at BGG; I think it was my first game on day one when I started reading through the thread and it seemed like almost everyone but me already claimed roles. I got votes because I didn't and because I thought it wasn't helpful for people to be doing so. Then got more votes the next day when I posted vote analysis. It's a whole different game over there.

Granted, I liked that they don't go entirely on voting history but have plenty of conversation which leads to getting better reads on people, though a mix of the two approaches works well. I just don't like the mass reveals (especially when many revealing as seers then would post "results" the next day; that can only help the wolves narrow down who is lying).

[fontisian]

I disapprove of the roleclaiming strategy, except as a fun, but meaningless thing. Still, the only one here's who knows Vaimes well enough to know what he's doing is me, so it's not a big deal.

On that note, I'm telling you guys that Vaimes is my strongest townread, and I'm damn good at reading him, so maybe you shouldn't be trying to lynch him?

[timmae]

Brit is an active posting machine. He mentions he would be in and out but he is really paying attention it seems.

unvote autumn
Vote britrock88

[Chief Rum]

I disapprove of the roleclaiming strategy, except as a fun, but meaningless thing. Still, the only one here's who knows Vaimes well enough to know what he's doing is me, so it's not a big deal.

On that note, I'm telling you guys that Vaimes is my strongest townread, and I'm damn good at reading him, so maybe you shouldn't be trying to lynch him?

Assuming we accept your take on your ability to read Vaimes, we would still then need to consider if we trust you. Sorry, font, I have absolutely no reason to trust you at the moment.

[fontisian]

Yeah, but if Vaimes and I were both scum, aligning ourselves together this hard would be stupid?

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 212

Britrock 4-JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Path(193), Timmae(210)
Cheekimonk 3-Shoveler(63), The Jackal(160), Autumn(205)
Vaimes 3- Britrock(115), Cheekimonk(179), EagleFan(206)
EagleFan 2-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71)
Autumn 1- Raven(171)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[Raven]

brit's posts are usually short but insightful. If he's town, I think he's a valuable asset to keep around. font openly supporting Vaimes tells me they aren't likely aligned, especially since they are (currently) voting together. Still confused on the Vaimes claim, but seems everyone is at this point. No real feel for cheeki, but going with the lesser of the evils for now.

unvote Autumn
vote cheeki

[Raven]

Zinto your count is off. brit has 4 votes in the list, but total says 3

[Zinto]

Zinto your count is off. brit has 4 votes in the list, but total says 3


I don't know what you are talking about;)

[path12]

I don't know what you are talking about;)

Being able to edit is one of the best things about running a game.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah, but if Vaimes and I were both scum, aligning ourselves together this hard would be stupid?

This scenario can happen without you both being scum. It basically comes back to that I can't trust you, nor can I trust him. So I trust neither of you and refuse to draw conclusions on what either of you say.

[Vaimes]

Oh right, this game has much shorter Days.

You know, reading through the thread, I don't think it's very clear what the Martyr actually does. It could be a Doctor or it could be a Bodyguard. Who knows! Only I do (maybe).

(Fake)claiming roles on D1 is just a fun thing I sometimes like to do. Some of you are taking it too seriously (or you're Wolves looking for an easy mislynch -- "he didn't die in the Night? scum! lynch! grah!").

If I'm a Vanilla Town, then I get shot and the real Martyr gets to protect(?) more important players, i.e. the Cop. If I'm actually the Martyr, the scumteam probably thinks I'm a bluffing VT and will leave me alive. If I were a Wolf, I would not (fake)claim on D1 and draw all this attention to myself, because? What's the point? Intentionally playing unnecessary wine games as scum is just more work. I'm just town having a bit of fun.

I have townreads on fontisian, JAG, Narcizo, and Jackal. Lean scum on Raven and EagleFan.

[Zinto]

The Martyr role was not purposely vague(oops). The Martyr can protect someone each night but will be the one who is nightkilled if the protection hits the nightkill target.

[cheekimonk]

Ok, just catching up and, ugh, I'm more confused than before about Vaimes, but on D1 I think that earns no vote. It's self-preservation at the moment so it's necessary, but this also feels more like a D1 vote to me (not much to go on but not reading village at all):

unvote Vaimes
vote britrock88

[Vaimes]

There you have it, folks. A Bodyguard.

[Vaimes]

unvote font

vote Vaimes

Time to consolidate and see what we get.

This is fake.

[Chief Rum]

If I'm a Vanilla Town, then I get shot and the real Martyr gets to protect(?) more important players, i.e. the Cop. If I'm actually the Martyr, the scumteam probably thinks I'm a bluffing VT and will leave me alive. If I were a Wolf, I would not (fake)claim on D1 and draw all this attention to myself, because? What's the point? Intentionally playing unnecessary wine games as scum is just more work. I'm just town having a bit of fun.

You see, the issue here is that neither you nor font seem to see that, at least here, some of us more experienced players are looking second and third level or even further. The ole recursive reasoning.

"No way would I align with myself with Vaimes if we were scum!!"

"No way would I fake claim when I was a wolf!!"

These are just words. They mean nothing. We completely believe either of you could attempt these sorts of things because, frankly, we would consider doing these things and we have even seen these things. Many of us have been playing WW here for 7-8 years now. We would totally take a stab at that.

And if I can do it, or I think EF can or The Jackal or anyone else with significant experience in this game, I will certainly consider the possibility you would do this, Vaimes (or you and font).

So for that reason, you get no trust making these statements at all, just like font gets no credit from me for her statements.

That doesn't mean I am voting either one of you guys, but I don't believe this strategy helps the village. It confuses the village in an effort to confuse the wolves, and the negative of the former, IMO, far outweighs the benefit of the latter.

[Chief Rum]

There you have it, folks. A Bodyguard.

Not quite. A BG usually survives as a protector.

I actually thought the role was pretty well spelled out.

[Chief Rum]

I would like to vote EF for meta reasons because of his weird seer move last game, but I would then be on the same guy is Vaimes and font, so I am a little hesitant to do that.

I don't have a feel between cheekimonk and britrock, but I believe that close votes give us more information in the long run, so I am going to move this closer.

VOKE CHEEKIMONK

[Chief Rum]

I will be out until past the deadline in about 10 minutes.

[britrock88]

I got a weird vibe from Brit's first posts as well

That's unfortunate!

[britrock88]

I think Brit knows the move Vaimes made and pretended he didn't.

I mean, I know what it is in the sense of playing WW. But are you implying that I might have had foreknowledge that Vaimes would make a WIFOM martyr claim?

(I don't really want to feed into WIFOM itself... but I think Path and I can talk about this, at least.)

[fontisian]

I really don't understand why people aren't voting for EF.

[britrock88]

Brit is an active posting machine.

Make what you will of my activity today. But :lol: @me for getting this comment as someone who can never break top-half posting volume at BGG.

[Vaimes]

Not quite. A BG usually survives as a protector.

I actually thought the role was pretty well spelled out.

I thought BG dying or losing their healing abilities is what differentiated it from a Doctor.

[path12]

I mean, I know what it is in the sense of playing WW. But are you implying that I might have had foreknowledge that Vaimes would make a WIFOM martyr claim?

(I don't really want to feed into WIFOM itself... but I think Path and I can talk about this, at least.)

No, I'm not saying there was any foreknowledge. I'm leaving work soon and will check when I get back home, but my recollection was that you seemed surprised about the move in general and I know you've must have seen things like this before.

Frankly, I kind of expected more argument against voting you after making that vote, so I'm not entirely as comfortable about it as I was.

[britrock88]

We're way ahead of deadline (>3.5 hours), but I'm going to go ahead and claim VANILLA VILLAGER so that the village can decide either to string me up (which I would prefer to losing a GS and disprefer to lynching a wolf, of course) or explore alternatives.

[fontisian]

I have this weird idea called "Cheeki and brit are both town, stop lynching them."

[britrock88]

No, I'm not saying there was any foreknowledge. I'm leaving work soon and will check when I get back home, but my recollection was that you seemed surprised about the move in general and I know you've must have seen things like this before.

Frankly, I kind of expected more argument against voting you after making that vote, so I'm not entirely as comfortable about it as I was.

Yeah, it's just a relatively rare technique here. Getting people to talk substantively on the first day is a challenge, but something like this is just the kind of thing that gives people something to talk about, for better or worse.

[britrock88]

I seriously thought my vote was already on Cheeki.

unvote Vaimes
vote Cheekimonk

I read Vaimes' WIFOM reveal as neutral-to-good. Cheeki, meanwhile, has grasped at a few different lines of thought, it seems.

[britrock88]

Also interested by CR's continued thoughts on Vaimes' WIFOM reveal. Reading those as neutral-to-good, as well.

[Chief Rum]

I thought BG dying or losing their healing abilities is what differentiated it from a Doctor.

I'm not sure what a standard Doctor is at BGG.

Here, a BG is usually a player who can protect either another player from the nightkill. The basic, common variation is that he will survive that protection and keep the player alive, but will not know who attacked. He can protect himself, but he can't protect the same player two nights in a row.

That's the standard and other versions of the BG usually vary off of that. Can protect the same player every night. Can't protect self. Will die if the player he is protecting is attacked (that's pretty much the Martyr role). Will stop an attack AND see who attacked. Etc. Etc.

[path12]

I went back and didn't see what I thought I saw earlier.

UNVOTE BRITROCK88

[path12]

Also interested by CR's continued thoughts on Vaimes' WIFOM reveal. Reading those as neutral-to-good, as well.

Chief is one of those people I can never get a sense of.

[Vaimes]

My experience with the two is

Doctor > can protect one person per Night; cannot self-protect; may protect the same person multiple Nights in a row

Bodyguard > can protect one person per Night; will die or lose ability if target is shot

[Vaimes]

You know, as long as my claim potentially doesn't out the other/real(?) roles, there really is no reason for other villagers to feel confused. Just let the scumteam either shoot me or leave me alone.

I'm not expecting free townreads based on my claim. If anything, I expected there to be disagreements, although some of them are pretty bad, the primary offender being: "if you don't get shot we're going to lynch you!" because that is such a Wolfy thing to do.

[Vaimes]

I feel so weird using Wolf instead of scum.

halp

[JAG]

I'm caught up. I don't get the confusion on Vaimes' "claim" at all. It was clear form the first post when he said 'town should ignore this' that it wasn't a serious claim (at least, to me), to say nothing of the strategy of making such a real claim at this point in the game.

[cheekimonk]

I've already claimed vanilla village. And this is definitely the most confusing D1 I've been part of.

[cheekimonk]

Wait...all of this shit and I'm up 2-3 votes? If I'm the least offensive choice then fine...at least I'm vanilla, but no way in hell am I the most suspicious townie today.

[Zinto]

Vote Count as of Post 247

Cheekimonk 6-Shoveler(63), The Jackal(160), Autumn(205), Raven(214),
Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237)
Britrock 4-JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Timmae(210), Cheekimonk(221)
EagleFan 2-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)
Vaimes 1- EagleFan(206)

[Zinto]

Two hours until deadline reminder

Night actions are due at 10 too

[JAG]

No huge wolfy reads from me. I see font's case on EF but I think that's his usual style of play. The only thing that stood out a bit to me was Shoveler saying he'd be around all day but didn't really have a lot to say even as conversations were raging. The comment about feeling better about Narc after he posts analysis, which makes no sense as he does that no matter his alliegence.