WW-Pokemon Day Three Deadline 4/15 10 PM

[EagleFan]

No sense in trying to figure it out now; unless the real seer is online as they should definitely reveal at this point as we would have caught 2 of the 3 wolves and be in great shape.

We'll see tomorrow where this goes.

[fontisian]

If I were scum, I'd bet that the martyr wouldn't get back in time to protect seer!Shoveler.

[The Jackal]

If I were scum, I'd bet that the martyr wouldn't get back in time to protect seer!Shoveler.

Risky, but I'd think either way Shoveler would be the target .. unless they did miss Zinto's BG clarification

[JAG]

I also think the seer should reveal and then I'll vote Shoveler. I'm pretty sure I know who the seer is.

[EagleFan]

If the Shoveler reveal is real and we have no counters...

Day One Vote Count

Cheekimonk 5-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path(318), Cheekimonk(333)
Britrock 4- JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Timmae(293)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

Updated Autumn to mostly good. Reading back over the posts after the reveal I think it does lean him towards good.

[EagleFan]

If the Shoveler reveal is true:

Day Two Final Tally

Raven 6- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626), Fontisian(636), Path(638), Timmae(641), JAG(675)
Autumn 4- The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 2-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)

Updated with my lean on Autumn.

[EagleFan]

If Shoveler reveal is countered (though we will be adding colors if we get a counter).

If the Shoveler reveal is real and we have no counters...

Day One Vote Count

Cheekimonk 5-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path(318), Cheekimonk(333)
Britrock 4- JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Timmae(293)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

If the Shoveler reveal is true:

Day Two Final Tally

Raven 6- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626), Fontisian(636), Path(638), Timmae(641), JAG(675)
Autumn 4- The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 2-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)

[EagleFan]

Sorry, cheek was still supposed to be green in that day one vote (in the counter scenario).

[EagleFan]

Good night all.

[EagleFan]

FTR; I will be away much of the day tomorrow. Still not feeling well but will be in the office tomorrow and my schedule looks crazy with meetings (ugh). Will try to get to the thread over my phone when I can but I hate posting a lot when on the phone.

[britrock88]

:popcorn:

[path12]

Just tell her that you're playing a game with a 19 year old girl. I'm sure she'll take it really well.

She knows. She thinks this sounds like an awful game. However the direct yet warm ms.path loves few things more than talking to smart young women.

[path12]

VOTE SHOVELER

Hi, I'm Red.

N1 scan on EagleFan, conditional on Narcizo if EF got lynched. EF is good, you may note my quick turnaround on him right after D1.

N2 scan was Autumn, conditional to fontisian if Autumn got lynched. Autumn is good.

Shoveler, on the other hand is not me. So he must be Team Rocket.

[path12]

I can give you quotes:

Post #317
That's a weird reason then because everybody claims village!

Why are we voting Brit?

Anyone interested in switching to EF?

Post #318
I could go Cheeki but I'd rather go EF. There you go then,

VOTE EAGLEFAN

Post #358, soon after start of D2.
There was really no big push at the end. Two of the three were villagers. Might have been all three.

Post #361
I'm going to look in different directions.

VOTE TIMMAE

Post #373
I think the wolves made a mistake with the nightkill. I think they killed Brit because they figured that EF would be the cinch target for day 2. And if we don't lynch EF today I cannot imagine a situation where we would not know if he was a wolf by day 3.

So if I think that's what they think, I don't see the point in lynching EagleFan today.

[fontisian]

She knows. She thinks this sounds like an awful game. However the direct yet warm ms.path loves few things more than talking to smart young women.
:)

Vote Shoveler

[Vaimes]

Vote Shoveler

[Narcizo]

Unusual for me to be so accurate on day two. Or any day to be honest.

Vote Shoveler

No reason for Path to lie plus neither Shoveler nor the Matyr dying.

[Narcizo]

Ok for the porpoises of vote analysis I'm going to colour Path, Autumn and Eagle blue and Shoveler red because I'm hard pressed finding a way that Path isn't telling the truth. In fact I'll, appropriately enough, colour myself Blue as that's who I am, as will be proved tonight.

You won't believe how glad I am that Path didn't reveal after Shoveler last night, as I wouldn't have protected him then. (Zinto kindly allowed me to use conditional protect orders so I was protecting the first person to reveal as a seer - in retrospect I should have protected the last person to reveal). Anyway, no harm as it turned out.

[Narcizo]

Day Two Final Tally

Raven 6- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626), Fontisian(636), Path(638), Timmae(641), JAG(675)
Autumn 4- The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 2-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)

Grover it is then.

[Narcizo]

Accidentally marked Vaimes as blue for some reason but the point remains. My trust list of uncleared is something like

Fontisian
Vaimes
Jackal

Timmae
JAG

Grover

[JAG]

Well, I was wrong on my seer guess. But anyway,

Vote Shoveler

[Narcizo]

... Only Benny Hill is better.

Unvote Shoveler
Vote Timmae

[Narcizo]

Unvote Timmae
Vote Shoveler

[JAG]

Post 530 for Grover, switching from font to timmae when Raven had 3 and timmae had 2 doesn't look too good.

[JAG]

Well I need to put my kid to bed and I dont want to make the mistake that was made a few games ago.

Vaimes is town, I scanned him last night. I am Red, the seer.

I've played this poorly. Tried to stay under the radar to keep myself from drawing a night kill and apparently that is making me look bad to everyone else. So there you have what little information I can provide at this point.

My intent tonight was to scan EF.

You weren't going to get a night kill. I'm not buying it.

In case anyone was to distrust the path reveal for some reason...

[JAG]

I do not buy the reveal but I will switch. I also think the fact you moved off him immediately even though you were next in voting speaks well for you as village.

UNVOTE SHOVELER
VOTE RAVEN

Vaimes flat out said when he claimed martyr that town shouldn't pay attention to it. Why scan him?

For good measure.

[JAG]

Because you are smart enough to know that the wolves messed up on the nightkill, the EF situation resolves itself without a lynch and the better value for the village is trying to suss out who was hiding where on what could very well be a three way village vote yesterday.

So for me your motivations for pushing EF today come into question.

This is also a fun post in retrospect and then font's curiosity at how it resolves itself without a lynch.

[JAG]

Grover's my only guess for the last wolf at this point after reading back. path had some good dialogue calling him out Day 2 and his vote on timmae yesterday looks fishy in retrospect.

[Shoveler]

VOTE SHOVELER

Hi, I'm Red.

N1 scan on EagleFan, conditional on Narcizo if EF got lynched. EF is good, you may note my quick turnaround on him right after D1.

N2 scan was Autumn, conditional to fontisian if Autumn got lynched. Autumn is good.

Shoveler, on the other hand is not me. So he must be Team Rocket.

Well this has to be the biggest bullshit counter claim I have ever seen. I scanned EF last night and yes he is town, but of course you knew that already.

Guess your plan is working for now. After I get lynched today and flip good you're hosed. Not sure the strategy for the counter, not going after me last night should have been good enough.

[Autumn]

Vote Shoveler

[timmae]

vote shoveler

Last nights actions push me in this direction. We will see who is lying quickly enough. The stooges never lied... Maybe these guys are the 3 cabelleros.

[Grover]

Oh man...

Who to believe.

I will be around all day and tonight for once. So... still catching up here.

[Grover]

vote shoveler

path seems more legitimate here. Whereas, Shoveler seems to have the hint of desperation of a wolf trying to save themselves.

[EagleFan]

Between the wolves not going after Shoveler and that a fake counter by path really does the wolves no good... And my initial read on Shoveler...

vote Shoveler

[Narcizo]

I ought to try and do some sort of analysis but I haven't really had time today and its difficult seeing past Grover. My worry is that this, barring Path's scan tonight, is all the information we're going to get. But with the number of cleared villagers I think the wolf would have to be the last possible person imaginable for us not to win. But wackier things have happened.

[timmae]

wow, 10 votes for shoveler this page alone. And then that vote on me because narc apparently doesn't have good taste in comedy shows. Anyways... reading back through the thread to try and verify who team shoveler may be and who team path may be.

[timmae]

I'll be around all day. Wanted to get a post in last night and I didn't get a chance to take a shot at Cheeki for the last game, so yeah my vote is not real serious. But at this point he isn't giving me any real reason to move it.

As for reads, font seems active and engaged like I would expect (drawing from my huge experience pool of 3 games), going with good on her. Narc feels similar to me, good engagement & unbiased contribution, will expect the usual vote analysis after day 1 to feel more confident.

Everyone else is a ? at this point. Not sure about the eagle vote for font. But from what I have seen previously he can be very unpredictable, so I'm not going to read much into that yet.

There could be reads here. If shoveler flips evil then I have slight negative (evil) reads on narc, font and to a lesser extent EF.

[Shoveler]

I dont see myself talking my way out of this lynch. So if lynching me helps reveal Path's deceit, why not start the nightfall votes and just move the game forward?

[timmae]

Nightfalls are never a good idea for team good IMHO. I will not be nightfalling.

[Zinto]

As of Post 789

Shoveler 7-Path(763), Font(765), Vaimes(766), JAG(771), Narcizo(773), Grover(783), EagleFan(784)
EagleFan 1-Autumn(710)
Autumn 1-Timmae(728)

[Zinto]

Timmae and Autumn you didn't unvote your previous votes.

[Grover]

I dont see myself talking my way out of this lynch. So if lynching me helps reveal Path's deceit, why not start the nightfall votes and just move the game forward?

I know you're essentially a sitting duck, but I don't think this is a good idea.

We need to continue fostering discussion about who could be the third wolf.

While I do think you are lying about being the seer, it's fairly obvious that EF was good, it would behoove us not to go down the nightfall road. There's plenty to discuss, even with your fate sealed.

Also, waiting 12 hours to die when you know it's going to happen really, really sucks. I'm sorry that we have to delay the inevitable.

[Autumn]

unvote eaglefan
vote shoveler

[path12]

There could be reads here. If shoveler flips evil then I have slight negative (evil) reads on narc, font and to a lesser extent EF.

EF? I've cleared EF. Hell, even the fake seer has claimed to clear EF, though he didn't leave any bread crumbs as far as I can tell.

[path12]

I dont see myself talking my way out of this lynch. So if lynching me helps reveal Path's deceit, why not start the nightfall votes and just move the game forward?

We can talk it out if you like. I have more posts to reference, though it looks like JAG hit many of them.

[timmae]

EF? I've cleared EF. Hell, even the fake seer has claimed to clear EF, though he didn't leave any bread crumbs as far as I can tell.

Lol, yep. Obviously I havent reached your claim and views on my reread yet!

[timmae]

Timmae and Autumn you didn't unvote your previous votes.

Right. My fault. Sorry boss!

[The Jackal]

FTR; I will be away much of the day tomorrow. Still not feeling well but will be in the office tomorrow and my schedule looks crazy with meetings (ugh). Will try to get to the thread over my phone when I can but I hate posting a lot when on the phone.

sounds exactly like my yesterday and today, i'm inhaling cough drops

[The Jackal]

I had a feeling path was the seer as well

[The Jackal]

vote shoveler

[The Jackal]

Nice job not countering last night

[The Jackal]

Not sure when I'll have time to look at votes to try and sniff out the third

[Grover]

sounds exactly like my yesterday and today, i'm inhaling cough drops

That sounds like a choking hazard.

[path12]

Nice job not countering last night

I was worried that I had been sniffed out but it seemed worth it to wait in order to get the other read and I figured that after calling out the Brit nightkill they wouldn't go after Autumn.

Was originally going to scan fontisian all day long because if I was right that she was village I was kicking around the idea of coming out today anyway and trying to put together a circle of trust. But then Shoveler fake revealed and I switched up.

[The Jackal]

Felt pretty comfortable with Autumn after the way last night went down anyways, but never hurts to be sure

[The Jackal]

Hopefully you won't need another scan.. but you should theoretically be able to get one if necessary and the martyr does their job

[path12]

Hopefully you won't need another scan.. but you should theoretically be able to get one if necessary and the martyr does their job

We've still got one out there after tonight, right? Not going to mention in thread but have a fairly good idea who I am going to search.

[The Jackal]

We've still got one out there after tonight, right? Not going to mention in thread but have a fairly good idea who I am going to search.

Hah, I must've already had Shoveler lynched in my mind .. so yes you'll get another scan

[timmae]

So, shoverler flips wolf or places path in the crosshairs. Vaimes action will tell us what we need to know there. Then it's find the 3rd stooge tomorrow? Or 2nd if tonight is a cluster. I need to finish reading the posts so far but grover and autumn are my 2 evil reads at the moment.

[Grover]

So, shoverler flips wolf or places path in the crosshairs. Vaimes action will tell us what we need to know there. Then it's find the 3rd stooge tomorrow? Or 2nd if tonight is a cluster. I need to finish reading the posts so far but grover and autumn are my 2 evil reads at the moment.

May I ask you to expand on the read on me?

[JAG]

So, shoverler flips wolf or places path in the crosshairs. Vaimes action will tell us what we need to know there. Then it's find the 3rd stooge tomorrow? Or 2nd if tonight is a cluster. I need to finish reading the posts so far but grover and autumn are my 2 evil reads at the moment.

Seeking as how Autumn was scanned good and there is no cunning in this game, having Autumn as one of your evil reads is...curious.

[path12]

Not sure when I'll have time to look at votes to try and sniff out the third

He may be doing that for us.

[Autumn]

Seeking as how Autumn was scanned good and there is no cunning in this game, having Autumn as one of your evil reads is...curious.

:confused:

Not sure if confused or evil.

[timmae]

:confused:

Not sure if confused or evil.

Or not 100% sold on Path. I am 95% of the way there. I'll have my reads regardless in a few.

[timmae]

Because you are smart enough to know that the wolves messed up on the nightkill, the EF situation resolves itself without a lynch and the better value for the village is trying to suss out who was hiding where on what could very well be a three way village vote yesterday.

So for me your motivations for pushing EF today come into question.

This makes me feel better about my shoveler vote. Could be a trap play but I read it as honest.

[EagleFan]

There could be reads here. If shoveler flips evil then I have slight negative (evil) reads on narc, font and to a lesser extent EF.

So both the claimed seers say that I scanned as good but you still have an evil read on me? I'll remember that when I'm simming Chicago's games... :)

[Autumn]

Or not 100% sold on Path. I am 95% of the way there. I'll have my reads regardless in a few.

Even without a scan, I think I've probably made the most pro-villager play in the game by pushing Raven as a lynch target when I could have put anybody in the crosshairs. It's quite a stretch to have me on your short list.

[EagleFan]

Okay, now I caught up.

[timmae]

So both the claimed seers say that I scanned as good but you still have an evil read on me? I'll remember that when I'm simming Chicago's games... :)

lol, yep. I'm an idiot. Your play has so confused me I believe no one. Anyone have one of those handy cheat sheet thingy's on who has claimed what handy?

[timmae]

Even without a scan, I think I've probably made the most pro-villager play in the game by pushing Raven as a lynch target when I could have put anybody in the crosshairs. It's quite a stretch to have me on your short list.

I'm good at stretching. I'd sit back and not post and wait for everything to play out but what good would that do? If I am confusing everyone then I can just bite my tongue.

[EagleFan]

With path's read:


Day One Vote Count

Cheekimonk 5-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path(318), Cheekimonk(333)
Britrock 4- JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Timmae(293)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)


Day Two Final Tally

Raven 6- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626), Fontisian(636), Path(638), Timmae(641), JAG(675)
Autumn 4- The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 2-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)

[Autumn]

I'm good at stretching. I'd sit back and not post and wait for everything to play out but what good would that do? If I am confusing everyone then I can just bite my tongue.

Post away! The only biting around here should be by wolves.

[EagleFan]

Feeling okay about timmae and JAG with their votes on day two. No way they sacrifice a wolf while another wolf makes a false claim. Now that is unless Shoveler comes back as the actual seer tonight.

Vaimes could still be a possible. Don't think font would vote Raven at that point yesterday to put him close to the lead and in danger.

[EagleFan]

The above post can be thrown out the window if Shoveler ends up being the real seer; though I am inclined to believe path (if nothing more than to make me feel good about my initial Shoveler read).

[Zinto]

As of Post 824

Shoveler 7-Path(763), Font(765), Vaimes(766), JAG(771), Narcizo(773), Grover(783), EagleFan(784), Autumn(793), The Jackal(800)
Autumn 1-Timmae(728)

[EagleFan]

So... path reveals... but Shoveler still hasn't voted for him or acted at all like a true seer being countered would act...

[path12]

The above post can be thrown out the window if Shoveler ends up being the real seer; though I am inclined to believe path (if nothing more than to make me feel good about my initial Shoveler read).

I'd think me telling you to go cool off when I was trying to shift the narrative on you would have helped you believe me as well. :)

[path12]

lol, yep. I'm an idiot. Your play has so confused me I believe no one. Anyone have one of those handy cheat sheet thingy's on who has claimed what handy?

Vaimes claimed Martyr but told town to ignore it.
Shoveler claimed Red when he was gonna get lynched.
I claimed Red the next day with evidence left in thread.
Narcizo subsequently claimed Martyr. Vaimes has not fought him on that.

That it? I think so.

[Narcizo]

Anyone would think people don't read my posts. :(

Vaimes isn't the martyr - I am. Vaimes never seriously meant he was the martyr. Vaimes claiming martyr should not be interpreted in any way as him being bad. If anyone says that I'm going to come back from the dead and box their ears.

I would like to change my suspicion list a bit.

Most suspicious at the top this time:

Grover
Jag
Jackal
Timmae
Vaimes
Fonti

So not actually a radical change to be honest I've just realised.

Jag's vote on Raven was when it was fait accomplice. Jackal's votes have been pretty bogus but I've had a better vibe from Jackal than Jag. I feel very confident that font and Vaimes are village, particularly fonti. And that should be enough to see us win.

[timmae]

May I ask you to expand on the read on me?

I had a slight evil read on D1 for the jokey posts about the redskins. I am fine with a lone vote but your reasoning re: redskins was weird. D2 you called out vaimes for lurking. Odd post. D3 has been better. Adjusting for recent reads you are slightly evil/neutral in my book.

[Narcizo]

Anyone would think people don't read my posts. :(



Narcizo subsequently claimed Martyr. Vaimes has not fought him on that.


I <3 Path

[Autumn]

More Redskin-related problems. Where does it end?

[EagleFan]

I see zero chance that brit is NK day one if JAG is a wolf. JAG could have just as easily voted Autumn, it was still a question between them at that point.

With only three wolves it would be a ballsy move to vote one out when the other one had previously made a false claim as that makes it 9:2 (where we are at now) and could be sitting 8:1 after tonight with potentially 4 cleared villagers.

Actually, I just talked myself into why I may want to dial back my view on JAG. He may be a worthy scan option tonight.

Was JAG around much day one?

[Narcizo]

Well I'm off to lose my pokeball to mean ole Team Rocket. Go Team Path!

I won't be around so I'll ....

Vote Nightfall

[path12]

I see zero chance that brit is NK day one if JAG is a wolf. JAG could have just as easily voted Autumn, it was still a question between them at that point.

With only three wolves it would be a ballsy move to vote one out when the other one had previously made a false claim as that makes it 9:2 (where we are at now) and could be sitting 8:1 after tonight with potentially 4 cleared villagers.

Actually, I just talked myself into why I may want to dial back my view on JAG. He may be a worthy scan option tonight.

Was JAG around much day one?

JAG started a new job this week? so he has not been around much. If he wasn't around that could explain the N1 kill better. I wondered about him early but lately I've gone neutral.

[Grover]

I had a slight evil read on D1 for the jokey posts about the redskins. I am fine with a lone vote but your reasoning re: redskins was weird. D2 you called out vaimes for lurking. Odd post. D3 has been better. Adjusting for recent reads you are slightly evil/neutral in my book.

Haha, I was using the Skins as a meta-excuse to vote for Jackal. He and I are good friends, so it was a nice little jab.

Thanks for answering the question though, much appreciated.

[Narcizo]

Wolf-Jag couldn't tie it up by voting Autumn. He might as well dance on a table performing the I-am-a-wolf dance.

[path12]

Let's also make clear that I'm not being completely honest with my feelings on people today because I would like my scan to live if my guess is wrong.

[The Jackal]

More Redskin-related problems. Where does it end?

we're on the up and up, damnit

[EagleFan]

Wolf-Jag couldn't tie it up by voting Autumn. He might as well dance on a table performing the I-am-a-wolf dance.

Because a villager would never tie a vote...

(ducks from the tomatoes being thrown)

[The Jackal]

And I know my votes don't do much for me, and I could let someone else point it out, but if I was looking in as an outsider I find it very unlikely that all 3 wolves would have been on Autumn AND stayed on Autumn when that run on Raven started.

[Narcizo]

Because a villager would never tie a vote...

(ducks from the tomatoes being thrown)

Not to save someone else.

[EagleFan]

Not to save someone else.

:)

[The Jackal]

In any event, we're in great shape

[The Jackal]

I don't know what to think of Grover - his votes are hidden but he qualified it by saying he would be out. Makes it harder to get reads when people aren't forced to move their vote around.

[The Jackal]

Feel pretty good about JAG

[Narcizo]

I'd probably scan Jag just because, well, then you get a cleared villager Jag which is a bonus in anyone's books. I still think Grover is teh wolf though.

[The Jackal]

timmae prolly looking the most suspicious to me at the moment

[timmae]

OK. My reads are as follows.

Good - EF (yeah! Let's throw tomatoes!), Autumn (99.9% likely since path and narc lying would equal victory for townies)

Good to evil (based on content provided throughout game mainly):
Font
JAG
Vaimes
Grover
Jackal

[JAG]

Anyone would think people don't read my posts. :(

Vaimes isn't the martyr - I am. Vaimes never seriously meant he was the martyr. Vaimes claiming martyr should not be interpreted in any way as him being bad. If anyone says that I'm going to come back from the dead and box their ears.

I would like to change my suspicion list a bit.

Most suspicious at the top this time:

Grover
Jag
Jackal
Timmae
Vaimes
Fonti

So not actually a radical change to be honest I've just realised.

Jag's vote on Raven was when it was fait accomplice. Jackal's votes have been pretty bogus but I've had a better vibe from Jackal than Jag. I feel very confident that font and Vaimes are village, particularly fonti. And that should be enough to see us win.

I also voted Shoveler before Raven and was the first to say I thought he was suspicious at the end of Day 1 before he was brought up as a candidate. I'm a little surprised to be next most distrusted by you.

[Narcizo]

Now I really must go.

[timmae]

That's interesting! Hey jackal! :lol:

I find the raven/shoveler/jackal around posts 520-550 weird.

[path12]

That's interesting! Hey jackal! :lol:

I find the raven/shoveler/jackal around posts 520-550 weird.

Can you clarify? I just went back and read them and didn't see a whole lot.

[timmae]

Can you clarify? I just went back and read them and didn't see a whole lot.

I read back through to verify any instances in which Jag or Jackal interacted with team evil (and assumed team evil member shoveler) during the game. That page of threads was the jist of it I think. The sequencing between jackal/raven/shoveler posts was an interesting give and take. Jackal pushes raven's thought about me being inactive. Meanwhile shoveler is asking about jackals vote towards him. Jackal pushes more action towards me. Jackal backs off when CR pipes in. Then has an iffy reason on the shoveler vote (not much going on). Then when I vote autumn he places his vote there. In the span of 2 hours there were numerous thoughts/reactions from jackal but not much conviction to any of them. Just pinged me is all.

[The Jackal]

Fair assessment - I was intentionally moving my vote around yesterday to see how other votes would follow, as I alluded to.

What do you mean though by, "Jackal pushes more action towards me"

All I said was that I wanted to hear more from you, then that your line about not voting for you should be irrelevant. If that was a joke CR obviously saw it but to me I was being honest.. saying something like that before leaving just strikes me as being off.

[The Jackal]

Honestly though I don't have a good read on whom the last wolf is, I'm happy to admit it. I haven't played my best game so if I need to be scanned/lynched that's fine, s'long as the village wins.

[The Jackal]

Certainly not saying I won't continue to attempt to analyze, though!

[The Jackal]

double negatives and all

[The Jackal]

I'll prolly end up putting together a trust list with stabs at reasoning tomorrow once we presumably have one more scan.

[The Jackal]

Though the way this week is going at work, not sure I'll have a ton of time during the day.. we'll see

[timmae]

Fair assessment - I was intentionally moving my vote around yesterday to see how other votes would follow, as I alluded to.

What do you mean though by, "Jackal pushes more action towards me"

All I said was that I wanted to hear more from you, then that your line about not voting for you should be irrelevant. If that was a joke CR obviously saw it but to me I was being honest.. saying something like that before leaving just strikes me as being off.

By action I meant notice I guess. Your posts:

I'll decide what's a waste of my time thank you very much

hint: this meeting

but yes timmae, that last line is and/or should be disregarded by everyone

I was reading into the fact that you were casting the net wider in some cases (thoughts without direct reasoning or content to back it up) rather than being specific to what was pinging you about certain people. Essentially I read wolfies as casting a little bit of blame amongst the most amount of people while village tends to pick apart specific instances/content.

I think to my detriment I often have a gut feel towards why I think someone is evil and I am not able to back it up with enough case study. I am hoping I am getting better at it though. These first few games have been more about posting my thoughts so I don't die with them more than anything.

[JAG]

So Narc and I called out Grover, no response. Timmae said something, Grover asked for clarification, then just said thanks afterwards.

So Grover, do you have any thoughts on the remaining wolf? Anything you van point to that would make me feel better about you?

[The Jackal]

Timmae - the meeting comment was about the actual meeting I was in at work, not us "meeting" - just in case you were interpreting it that way. I would rarely call WW banter useless. ;)

[The Jackal]

And as someone who is having trouble deciding who the last person to target is, I appreciate the depth of your analysis on me. Now you don't necessarily have to believe me, but my vote jumping yesterday was intentional and trying to detect any shifts in the overall vote because of it, as well as gauging the reactions of the people I was voting for.

[Grover]

So Narc and I called out Grover, no response. Timmae said something, Grover asked for clarification, then just said thanks afterwards.

So Grover, do you have any thoughts on the remaining wolf? Anything you van point to that would make me feel better about you?

Where was I called out? I must have missed this.

I think it's Font. I'm still rubbed the wrong way by her aggressiveness toward EF.

Other than that, I'm pretty certain we guessed right tonight. If we're wrong and Shoveler is innocent, I think we have to lynch path. If we're right, I want to focus on font tomorrow.

[The Jackal]

I am curious why other people are reading font strongly as villager - haven't been able to make up my mind there.

[The Jackal]

Let me put up the vote counts before I take a look see

[The Jackal]

(thanks EF, updating with Narc reveal)

Day One Final Tally

Cheekimonk 5-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path(318), Cheekimonk(333)
Britrock 4- JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Timmae(293)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)


Day Two Final Tally

Raven 6- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626), Fontisian(636), Path(638), Timmae(641), JAG(675)
Autumn 4- The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 2-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)

[EagleFan]

I am curious why other people are reading font strongly as villager

Not everyone has... :D

[The Jackal]

In no particular order:

Font - Early vote on EF D1 that doesn't move, overtly aggressive towards him. The aggressiveness seems to strike others as unwolfy - in general I agree but I don't have a strong village read on Font. D2 Voted for Raven post-shoveler reveal as a drive-by at 9:32 (636) - didn't post again until 9:59 to say:

Look, if the reason we're not lynching EF is that he probably wouldn't have made that kill (which is my reasoning), that also applies to Autumn.

Again, I'm pretty neutral on font.


Vaimes: Have talked at length about how the false claim bothered me, but without playing with Vaimes much it's fairly hard to make any reads based on it, learning as I go about other boards cultures. Another early vote on EF that wasn't moved, and the first to follow Autumn on to Raven. He didn't need to make that move, he was only the 2nd vote and it was early enough to wait for other candidates to be suggested if he's a wolf. Could have done it to buy trust in case Raven got momentum, but that vote elevates him slightly for me.


Timmae: D1 doesn't say a lot to me, was more quiet than I've come to expect as mentioned by others, but everyone has a busy day now and then. D2 he is one of the latter people to move on to Raven - but that isn't indicative in itself as four people voted Raven within 15 posts. I tend to find it likeliest that a wolf teammate would bide their time and not jump on Raven right away, so this pushes timmae slightly down my trust list.

JAG: Hasn't really pinged me, but I'm not an expert in reading him. Early D1 vote with no movement and the last to jump on Raven are not the best looking votes, but I'm neutral leaning good here.

Grover: No real read. Two outlier votes which look bad but that we were told to expect if the votes went different ways. As I said before, without him having been forced to make a decision, it's tough to use his votes to look at. I know Grover pretty well but I have no idea what to expect from him in terms of how he plays this game. I didn't think he was the Angel in the Mars game. So, throwing knowing him aside - I don't think his posts have added much and he's been absent during critical periods where people were talking to each other. So I guess I'm pretty neutral here but thinking I can give him more time to make his mark.

[JAG]

Here Grover:

Post 530 for Grover, switching from font to timmae when Raven had 3 and timmae had 2 doesn't look too good.

Grover's my only guess for the last wolf at this point after reading back. path had some good dialogue calling him out Day 2 and his vote on timmae yesterday looks fishy in retrospect.

I ought to try and do some sort of analysis but I haven't really had time today and its difficult seeing past Grover. My worry is that this, barring Path's scan tonight, is all the information we're going to get. But with the number of cleared villagers I think the wolf would have to be the last possible person imaginable for us not to win. But wackier things have happened.

Anyone would think people don't read my posts. :(

Vaimes isn't the martyr - I am. Vaimes never seriously meant he was the martyr. Vaimes claiming martyr should not be interpreted in any way as him being bad. If anyone says that I'm going to come back from the dead and box their ears.

I would like to change my suspicion list a bit.

Most suspicious at the top this time:

Grover
Jag
Jackal
Timmae
Vaimes
Fonti

So not actually a radical change to be honest I've just realised.

Jag's vote on Raven was when it was fait accomplice. Jackal's votes have been pretty bogus but I've had a better vibe from Jackal than Jag. I feel very confident that font and Vaimes are village, particularly fonti. And that should be enough to see us win.

[The Jackal]

We'll know more about someone in a couple hours. Before I sink time into going back through more posts to see if I feel anything outside of vote analysis, I'll wait for the night results.

[JAG]

I am curious why other people are reading font strongly as villager - haven't been able to make up my mind there.

Not as sold as Narc is, but she did have good votes on Shoveler and Raven yesterday.

[The Jackal]

I actually feel like part of my neutral to good read on JAG is you guys getting in my head about it being unlikely that EF/Autumn (before knowing their allegiance) would approve of the brit NK. If that's the reasoning, JAG fits in that group too.

[The Jackal]

Not as sold as Narc is, but she did have good votes on Shoveler and Raven yesterday.

If Grover ends up being the wolf, good on the 4 of you for making that switch and excellent villager play.

[The Jackal]

(and obviously good target, autumn)

[EagleFan]

Where has font been?

[EagleFan]

Don't like Grover's two votes at all. A Raven/Shoveler/Grover WW team would be a relatively inexperienced FOFC WW team which could point to the day 1 NK.

Jackal is trying hard tonight, which could be helpful villager or a wolf trying to be a helpful villager.

font has vanished today; potentially a wolf in hiding move.

JAG has been hard to read, he doesn't seem to be the same JAG that I remember in games. His vote on Raven looks good though.

timmae has been a riddle to me but his vote on Raven looks decent.

Vaimes had a parked vote on day one. His day two vote could go either way.


Don't feel strongly enough about any of the above at the moment.

[fontisian]

Or, font's been busy toDay.

[Shoveler]

this entire game was a clusterfuck from the beginning. zinto should have seen that three noobs on the wolf team would get absolutely eaten alive. team rocketing into the side of a mountain has been a dream to be a part of for the past two or so days. after last night i gave up, and i am really surprised to see the last of my team trying desperately to keep the game alive when he doesn’t have a chance in hell. this game is fucking over, and has been due to the stupid ass mistakes made last night. raven was supposed to vote for me and then move his vote after my reveal. and path you are so damn lucky buddy. i had the night kill order on you right after you contested my claim and it stuck there until timmae decided to change it to chief in the last few minutes before the deadline. i have stewed about this all day and fuck it i cannot wait to be lynched and get the hell out of this thread. I suck at werewolf, screw this game

[timmae]

woh... what is that now? Shoveler... stooge #2. Now we need to find the 3rd stooge. This play sounds like a vet move to throw choas around. Bad shoveler!

[timmae]

Font, what are your thoughts on this claim by shoveler?

[Zinto]

As of Post 882

Shoveler 7-Path(763), Font(765), Vaimes(766), JAG(771), Narcizo(773), Grover(783), EagleFan(784), Autumn(793), The Jackal(800)
Autumn 1-Timmae(728)

Nightfall 1-Narcizo(834)

[The Jackal]

until timmae decided to change it to chief

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvps7vMoy61qdna0x.jpg

[timmae]

unvote autumn
vote shoveler

Bit of housekeeping after my shoveler vote didn't have an unvote of autumn.

[EagleFan]

Hmm, really hope that is gamesmanship. Not fond of that play if it is the truth though.

[Vaimes]

I laughed.

[timmae]

I sincerely hope that last sentence was added only for an exclamation to the last ditch effort to save this for the wolves. I hope shoveler is onboard for the next game and many more after that!

[Grover]

I think he's trying to save himself at the last moment, it's a complete desperation play.

But it is a bizarre play of gamesmanship. I don't know why something like that statement would be thrown out there.

[path12]

and path you are so damn lucky buddy. i had the night kill order on you right after you contested my claim and it stuck there until timmae decided to change it to chief in the last few minutes before the deadline.

Luck my ass. If you would have night killed me you would have found out I was the seer and you'd be right where you are this very minute.

I will get night killed as a role every single time if it means a village win.

[path12]

Luck my ass. If you would have night killed me you would have found out I was the seer and you'd be right where you are this very minute.

I will get night killed as a role every single time if it means a village win.

Enjoyed playing with you though.

[EagleFan]

Though it does help having a couple extra cleared players.

[path12]

Though it does help having a couple extra cleared players.

You would have went back and found those earlier posts to clear you. Wouldn't have known about Autumn, but you'd still have two wolves down at that point.

[path12]

So. Stupid to keep the scan choice under wraps with one wolf yet, so let me get some ideas from y'all.

Right now I'm between Grover and timmae.

Thoughts?

[path12]

Dola, I'm going for a wolf, not to clear anyone's name.

[path12]

"Yet" in #894 should be "left".

[EagleFan]

I wouldn't be adverse to a JAG scan to be honest (would clear up an potential "why is JAG still alive?" confusion).

Though your two choices are good as well, or throw font into that mix.

If we think that Shoveler's rant was just a planned rant for gamesmanship we would have to assume it was discussed between the two remaining wolves.

That would mean that we need to ask if timmae's response was a believable just got thrown under the bus response.

That is kind of a risky play as going after the wrong person that way could potentially blow things out of control.


(sorry, kind of spitting out random thoughts as they come to me there)

[JAG]

So. Stupid to keep the scan choice under wraps with one wolf yet, so let me get some ideas from y'all.

Right now I'm between Grover and timmae.

Thoughts?

Grover naturally. He still hasn't responded to me and had a vote that helped wolf Raven. Even if we were only to go on post tone, it's hard to believe wolf timmae would forget that Autumn had been scanned by the real seer.

[JAG]

Ok, I don't like voting claimed village D1. So... Both Grover and raven have been around but not over the top active. Grover is off bowling so I will go with the guy who stuck up for Brit unasked.

unvote britrock
Vote raven

From Day 1

[Grover]

Grover naturally. He still hasn't responded to me and had a vote that helped wolf Raven. Even if we were only to go on post tone, it's hard to believe wolf timmae would forget that Autumn had been scanned by the real seer.

And you haven't responded to my response where I asked when you called me out.

[path12]

I wouldn't be adverse to a JAG scan to be honest (would clear up an potential "why is JAG still alive?" confusion).

Though your two choices are good as well, or throw font into that mix.

If we think that Shoveler's rant was just a planned rant for gamesmanship we would have to assume it was discussed between the two remaining wolves.

That would mean that we need to ask if timmae's response was a believable just got thrown under the bus response.

That is kind of a risky play as going after the wrong person that way could potentially blow things out of control.


(sorry, kind of spitting out random thoughts as they come to me there)

Nothing to be sorry about, that's what I wanted. TBH, I sent in my scan around 9AM today and it was always about these two for me.

I get what you are saying about JAG, but the more he's been around the better I've felt about him which isn't necessarily a good thing. ;)

[JAG]

For EF, posts from Day 1:

No huge wolfy reads from me. I see font's case on EF but I think that's his usual style of play. The only thing that stood out a bit to me was Shoveler saying he'd be around all day but didn't really have a lot to say even as conversations were raging. The comment about feeling better about Narc after he posts analysis, which makes no sense as he does that no matter his alliegence.

I don't see the case for brit. I sort of get what people see with cheek, but I feel like it's inexperience rather than malice.

Alternatives?

Of the current candidates no, like I said, just a negative feeling on Shoveler.

[JAG]

And you haven't responded to my response where I asked when you called me out.

Post 871

[path12]

Grover naturally. He still hasn't responded to me and had a vote that helped wolf Raven. Even if we were only to go on post tone, it's hard to believe wolf timmae would forget that Autumn had been scanned by the real seer.

True. As I mentioned day 2 though I've had a hunch about timmae and am SO CURIOUS to see if I was right!

[Grover]

I feel like suspicions have been pinned on me erroneously all game long. I was called out for not changing my day one vote on Jackal, even after I said I wouldn't be around that night.

I've had suspicions on timmae all game. I left my vote on him at a time when, again, I said I wouldn't back again until past deadline.

My guilt is being based off of my unavailability to change votes when I have stated I am otherwise indisposed.

We have good players in important roles right now. path's advice is to be heeded, as is Narc's. But those who are so eagerly and readily available to jump on it their side should be looked at carefully.

I'm looking at timmae first and then font. Her aggressiveness on EF ticked boxes for me as I've said. There's something 'off' in the way timmae has played this game and it's raised my eyebrow.

[Zinto]

Deadline

[Zinto]

Day Three Results

It ends up being a quick and easy vote after Path flips on his red hat and points a finger back at Shoveler. Quickly the rest of the campsite decides that Shoveler must have lied to them last night and that he must be a member of Team Rocket.

Path challenges Shoveler to a battle to prove who the real Red is. Path chooses his Bulbasaur while Shoveler sends out his Magikarp. It is a quick battle and Path easily dispatches the Magikarp who can only splash.

Before Magikarp is even returned to his Pokeball, Shoveler is running away towards the forest.

Shoveler was a member of Team Rocket.

[Zinto]

Night Three Results

When you wake up you see Officer Jenny standing in the camp outside Grover's tent. It seems that after spending the day talking and getting to know Grover, Path was convinced that Grover was a member of Team Rocket.

Officer Jenny found all of the missing Pokemon and took Grover in for questioning. With Grover arrested all of Team Rocket has left the camp and it is safe to continue your Pokemon journey.

The Village Wins!!

[timmae]

Hell yeah!! Go team pokey!!

[Zinto]

I think I balanced this a little too pro village. I probably need to get rid of the martyr or added a cultist or both.

[timmae]

Thanks for running this zinto... I had a ton of fun!!

[EagleFan]

Good game all. Thanks for the game Z.

Well done path!!!

[path12]

Yay!

So wolves, why Britrock?

[Shoveler]

So much for that plan..

[timmae]

Yes, way to go path!

Now explain to me your tells on my play... I was all over the board so I have no clue what you saw!!!

Sorry autumn, no harm meant man. Also grover... I was a bit tunneled on your play.

[timmae]

So much for that plan..

Awesome post though... I loved the artist license on weaving that tale!!

[path12]

Yes, way to go path!

Now explain to me your tells on my play... I was all over the board so I have no clue what you saw!!!

Sorry autumn, no harm meant man. Also grover... I was a bit tunneled on your play.

Clearly it wasn't true but I would have kept it in my pocket for future use anyway. :devil:

[Raven]

Somebody explain to me why Grover is dead? Shouldn't narc be dead since he protected Path?

[Shoveler]

Yay!

So wolves, why Britrock?

We agreed at the beginning that we would not kill font, narc or chief on night one. And we also agreed we were going to get owned.

To be honest we wanted to create confusion, and it seemed to work.

[path12]

Somebody explain to me why Grover is dead? Shouldn't narc be dead since he protected Path?

I scanned Grover so he would have come up wolf and we would have had a day just like this one, I suppose.

[Shoveler]

Somebody explain to me why Grover is dead? Shouldn't narc be dead since he protected Path?

Path scanned grover.. actions must come before night kills

[Zinto]

Somebody explain to me why Grover is dead? Shouldn't narc be dead since he protected Path?


I just accelerated the last day. Path scanned Grover and he would have just been voted out tomorrow.

[timmae]

Clearly it wasn't true but I would have kept it in my pocket for future use anyway. :devil:

You dog! The funny thing is my first game of WW was The Rebirth which was essentially a RPG game. Then Drenai which I was NK'd N2. Then I was wolf in WoT. How the hell can anyone build a profile of my play during that run?! LOL..

[Shoveler]

And path, I seriously had you targeted for the night kill last night until ten minutes to go and I made the executive decision to switch to chief. I wasn't kidding when I said I was upset today, but not at the team, just myself. You were the smart kill and I convinced myself otherwise.

[Zinto]

Technically Narc is gone I just didn't write it out because I wrote the post out a couple of hours ago and didn't double check it.

[EagleFan]

Once the final wolf was scanned there was really no sense in playing out the last day, that is my take on it.

[path12]

You dog! The funny thing is my first game of WW was The Rebirth which was essentially a RPG game. Then Drenai which I was NK'd N2. Then I was wolf in WoT. How the hell can anyone build a profile of my play during that run?! LOL..

You can learn a lot about how people play when you know their allegiance from the start.

[Grover]

Sigh.

[Shoveler]

Sigh.

We tried.. the results were as expected.

[JAG]

Good work village. Thanks Zinto. Agreed that a cultist is usually a fun addition.

[path12]

And path, I seriously had you targeted for the night kill last night until ten minutes to go and I made the executive decision to switch to chief. I wasn't kidding when I said I was upset today, but not at the team, just myself. You were the smart kill and I convinced myself otherwise.

I was kind of kicking myself for coming out against it because as Zinto knows I had already thought I had left way too many hints about being the seer.

[Shoveler]

guess I can log back into steam.. I was trying to look as pissed as possible so I was exiting out of all my programs.

[JAG]

And path, I seriously had you targeted for the night kill last night until ten minutes to go and I made the executive decision to switch to chief. I wasn't kidding when I said I was upset today, but not at the team, just myself. You were the smart kill and I convinced myself otherwise.

I honestly don't think it would've changed much. You would get voted out today, I laid out the case for Autumn being clear before path's as an result, we follow path's breadcrumbs on EF, and are still lead to Grover for he same reasons. Voting Raven out was the key for the village.

[Raven]

The NK on britrock essentially gave us 2 D1s, because of so much focus on EF. We knew EF would still have a lot of focus on D2, so he'd get at least some of the votes, and the other focus would most likely be on another villager.

Things actually were going exactly that way as 30 mins after N1, EF already had 2 votes. If EF doesn't lock himself in on Shoveler so early after N1, the voting for D2 would have likely been all over the place.

A few people said that NK on Brit was not a good move, but I think they actually didn't understand it. I still like the move, but think EF locking in on Shoveler had a negative snowball effect on us.

[EagleFan]

Good work village. Thanks Zinto. Agreed that a cultist is usually a fun addition.

Most fun I ever had was being a cultist in the Draft game. Just got to cause havoc for much of the game (fun when even getting killed helps your cause).

[Shoveler]

I honestly don't think it would've changed much. You would get voted out today, I laid out the case for Autumn being clear before path's as an result, we follow path's breadcrumbs on EF, and are still lead to Grover for he same reasons. Voting Raven out was the key for the village.

Yes, but my reveal set me up to be the sacrifice. However, Raven ended up getting lynched and everything went to shit in a matter of minutes.

[EagleFan]

but think EF locking in on Shoveler had a negative snowball effect on us.

See, not a meaningless vote. :D

[EagleFan]

Yes, but my reveal set me up to be the sacrifice. However, Raven ended up getting lynched and everything went to shit in a matter of minutes.

That was crappy luck for you guys.

[Zinto]

Yes, but my reveal set me up to be the sacrifice. However, Raven ended up getting lynched and everything went to shit in a matter of minutes.


+1 It was a brutal stretch for you guys. In most games that vote probably ends up on Autumn.

[Shoveler]

That was crappy luck for you guys.

Oh well, we learn.

[path12]

Agree on the Raven vote ending up key. That's why I think the balance was fine, you just had bad luck to have the fake reveal save one but land on another wolf.

[Grover]

I had one good game, the first. Perhaps this is not for me.

[path12]

Thanks again, Zinto and everyone, I had a great time. Three games in a row werewolves me out for awhile, but I'm sure I'll be back in eventually.

[EagleFan]

I had one good game, the first. Perhaps this is not for me.

It's an ebb and flow kind of thing. You'll have stretches where you will feel dialed in and playing great and you'll have stretches where you ask yourself if you have any clue at all. I feel like I have had more of the latter than the former but keep plugging away.

[Raven]

Btw, thanks for hosting, Zinto.

I actually think that being a wolf this game will help me be a better villager in later games.

[JAG]

Honestly, this was a hell of a lot of good villagers you played against.

[Shoveler]

I had one good game, the first. Perhaps this is not for me.

I wouldn't say that. Just remember alot of these guys have played this game for years. I know in this game I found myself staring at whatever I wrote for what felt like forever trying to look at it from every angle to see how I thought I was going to get trapped. I wrote so many posts that never made it to the thread.

Just need to keep plugging away at it I would imagine.

[JAG]

It's an ebb and flow kind of thing. You'll have stretches where you will feel dialed in and playing great and you'll have stretches where you ask yourself if you have any clue at all. I feel like I have had more of the latter than the former but keep plugging away.

That's also totally true.

[timmae]

I had one good game, the first. Perhaps this is not for me.

You'd be missed... who else would I list twice in my posts! It'll turn back around... keep at it man!

[Zinto]

I had one good game, the first. Perhaps this is not for me.


You haven't even been able to get into the flow of a role. You started as single person bad team, then went to a power role and now you were a wolf on an all newbie team. Trust me it gets easier or at least more comfortable.

[Vaimes]

Well, that was quick.

gg all

Next time I'll be more mindful of what does and doesn't flow in the games here. ,_,

[Shoveler]

Thanks Zinto.. We sucked, but it was fun.

[timmae]

Well, that was quick.

gg all

Next time I'll be more mindful of what does and doesn't flow in the games here. ,_,

I liked your claim... I see where it can completely mess up the level 1 thinking for the wolfies for a few days. No more tic tac toe. Nice play there my friend!

[The Jackal]

Nice work, path. Raven vote was definitely crucial.

[fontisian]

Fun game. Well done town.

[EagleFan]

Fun game. Well done town.

good game

[fontisian]

Grover, your main mistake was the waffling over which of Path and Shoveler were telling the truth. Going with the flow there and maybe expressing some happiness over getting Raven and Shoveler would have let you survive a little longer. Bussing, especially when Shoveler was going down the first time, would have helped a lot too.

[fontisian]

good game
Ef, sorry for freaking you out. It just felt so out of left field when you normally seem like a really level headed guy.

[EagleFan]

Ef, sorry for freaking you out. It just felt so out of left field when you normally seem like a really level headed guy.

I went over the top a bit. Part was "not twice in a row" and once I got to where I figured I was done I wanted to go down fighting a bit. You seemed to get a bit too defensive early on. From there it seemed like every time I turned around you were leading the charge against me; really hard for a day one charge.

It is what it is.

I'm still feeling a bit lousy but I really didn't want to post that in thread (I didn't care if I was voted out and figured it would clear up the first day anyway) and have it seem like a lame way to get sympathy. It kind of worked out as I was laying low from almost anything on Tuesday so knowing that I couldn't change kept me from wanting to check back in.

It's all good, no residual from this. (though I really hoped you were a wolf this game :) )

[Narcizo]

The NK on britrock essentially gave us 2 D1s, because of so much focus on EF. We knew EF would still have a lot of focus on D2, so he'd get at least some of the votes, and the other focus would most likely be on another villager.

Things actually were going exactly that way as 30 mins after N1, EF already had 2 votes. If EF doesn't lock himself in on Shoveler so early after N1, the voting for D2 would have likely been all over the place.

A few people said that NK on Brit was not a good move, but I think they actually didn't understand it. I still like the move, but think EF locking in on Shoveler had a negative snowball effect on us.

I can understand your thinking but there is a reason taking out Britrock suggested inexperienced players and that's because it helped the village with vote clarification and made it look like Eagle was being set up. Had you taken out anyone else I'm pretty sure Eagle gets lynched day two no matter what. I would have voted for him. If nothing else then because he tied the vote which is a wolf move unless he has a power role, which he'd already claimed he didn't.

There was a fair bit of luck on the villagers side though first landing on Shoveler and then on you on day two. It's pretty hard to know how much is random and how much is valid reads, probably a bit of both although mostly random in my case.

[Narcizo]

Ef, sorry for freaking you out. It just felt so out of left field when you normally seem like a really level headed guy.

I have to say that I'm very impressed that you managed to back away and look elsewhere on day two. When I get in the mood that I've convinced myself someone is a wolf I won't budge come hell or high water. To the extent that I would doubt a seer scan that says otherwise.

[Narcizo]

Next time I'll be more mindful of what does and doesn't flow in the games here. ,_,

I actually appreciated it and I hope you continue playing the way you do. It makes things much more interesting if there are other ideas and attitudes introduced and I think that's reflected in the fact that there was more discussion on day one than is usual in a vanilla game like this.

[Grover]

I find I get more frustrated than I'm having fun.

I struggle with reading into posts and going through vote history etc, etc. Most of the time I'm going through the motions of no real idea of what I'm trying to accomplish. I feel like I'm out of my depth around here. That's all.

[JAG]

The first couple days are the hardest for reading into posts. Some people have remarkable intuition, but for most people it's a matter of prodding and questioning people until you get something that doesn't make sense

For voting analysis, it's mostly a matter of knowing that the wolves know each other and the villagers don't. There are certain things that wolves don't usually do, like purposefully voting out roles wolves, that can provide evidence that a player is more likely to be a villager or the other way around, a vote like you had D2 where you tried to help out Shoveler looked like a wolf trying to protect another wolf. Of course it doesn't always work out, especially with veteran wolves. Not sure if reading through old games appeals to you, but the voting analysis done in this game has always been one of my favorites if you're interested in some pointers:

Breakout Kings: Werewolf Style (Game over - village wins) - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=84076)

[cheekimonk]

Thank you, Zinto!! Was still a fun game with the last minute (seconds?) plays by me and EF then the immediate NK on brit. Don't know how the wolves targeted brit ahead of EF and I being tied...that could have been a triple lynch if the tie = both EF and I getting lynched.

[Chief Rum]

I had one good game, the first. Perhaps this is not for me.

I think you're just fine, Grover. You were the last wolf standing after all, and that was with your time commitments getting in the way. As was pointed out, you also had an All Star team of villagers in this one (JAG, The Jackal, EF, Autumn, path, Narc for starters, font clearly has a ton of experience at BGG; really, there weren't any slouches over there, and they were all participating, too).

Can't expect to beat the 1927 Yanks with a team trying to learn on the fly. Now that I know the whole situation, I think you guys did some really interesting things, and I am very intrigued to see how you, Raven and Shoveler continue to grow as WW players).

[Chief Rum]

And, yes, thank you Zinto! I had fun with this game.

[Chief Rum]

Well, that was quick.

gg all

Next time I'll be more mindful of what does and doesn't flow in the games here. ,_,

Naw, don't change. The first time doing something new (new to us at FOFC) can be rough, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

FTR, I still view it as a strategy that introduces needless confusion into the village thinking, but if you think it has value, I encourage you to keep trying it and prove to me what value it can have.

[Chief Rum]

font, as intense as much of our sparring was, I just wanted to say I enjoyed the back and forth with you. It definitely got me into the game.

I'm not going to say there wasn't anything personal, because that's silly, we were really going at it. I definitely wanted to be "right" in our argument, you know? lol But for me at least, I don't carry anything over, except maybe I'll meta vote you on Day One. :D

And I still don't like the style/approach with which you went after EF, but I understand your strategy there at least. It's not one I would employ, but I can get behind a strategy of putting pressure on players and seeing how they react.

I look forward to Day One voting you in the next game.

[Shoveler]

As an after the game discussion point, during the last hour of my fake reveal I had considered putting the night kill on myself. I'm not sure if that is a valid move in the game (can the wolves target themselves?) to see if the martyr was protecting me. But in the end with narc and chief being unable to react, there were to many possibilities that came to mind where that wouldn't work out well.

[Chief Rum]

As an after the game discussion point, during the last hour of my fake reveal I had considered putting the night kill on myself. I'm not sure if that is a valid move in the game (can the wolves target themselves?) to see if the martyr was protecting me. But in the end with narc and chief being unable to react, there were to many possibilities that came to mind where that wouldn't work out well.

Interesting. If you recall, I put out that possibility (wolf targeting wolf) during my argument with font.

I was considering whether the wolves would actually target one of their own on the assumption he would protected by the martyr. I thought that would be a very risky move, though.

[The Jackal]

That's a really interesting idea. Totally risky, but interesting.

[Shoveler]

That's a really interesting idea. Totally risky, but interesting.

Well after the vote turned on raven we were sort of hosed. So at that point making my reveal look legitimate was sort of pressing. The martyr was the number one priority, if he got taken out after the reveal it would make me look legitimate. But we had no idea who that would be, we had the seer nailed down to three people, and two of those three ended up being the two roles, but of course we chose poorly and plucked chief the vanilla villager.

[The Jackal]

Yeah it's pretty amazing how a game can turn on a dime in the space of a few minutes like that.

[Raven]

I can understand your thinking but there is a reason taking out Britrock suggested inexperienced players and that's because it helped the village with vote clarification and made it look like Eagle was being set up. Had you taken out anyone else I'm pretty sure Eagle gets lynched day two no matter what. I would have voted for him. If nothing else then because he tied the vote which is a wolf move unless he has a power role, which he'd already claimed he didn't.

There was a fair bit of luck on the villagers side though first landing on Shoveler and then on you on day two. It's pretty hard to know how much is random and how much is valid reads, probably a bit of both although mostly random in my case.

If EF doesn't lock himself onto Shoveler, OR font doesn't flip her vote from EF to Shoveler, we could have been in perfect shape heading into Day 3. As long as font and EF were still alive and battling it out/targeting each other, it played well for us.

Unfortunately for us, both of those things went against us, so we'll never know!

[cheekimonk]

Yeah it's pretty amazing how a game can turn on a dime in the space of a few minutes like that.

Truth. Just the game before we had that insane triple-kill for the wolves.

[Autumn]

Great game, Zinto, it was fun to do a plain jane game for a change. And it's fun to have so many new players, makes it tricky again to figure people out.

[Narcizo]

As an after the game discussion point, during the last hour of my fake reveal I had considered putting the night kill on myself. I'm not sure if that is a valid move in the game (can the wolves target themselves?) to see if the martyr was protecting me. But in the end with narc and chief being unable to react, there were to many possibilities that came to mind where that wouldn't work out well.

I think it would have worked because I had a conditional that meant I was protecting you. That would have been a great play.

[Narcizo]

Breakout Kings: Werewolf Style (Game over - village wins) - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=84076)

I think the dialogue I had with Danny is my favourite experience in werewolf here. It's not often I get the chance to experience that.

[JAG]

As an after the game discussion point, during the last hour of my fake reveal I had considered putting the night kill on myself. I'm not sure if that is a valid move in the game (can the wolves target themselves?) to see if the martyr was protecting me. But in the end with narc and chief being unable to react, there were to many possibilities that came to mind where that wouldn't work out well.

Cool idea. On D3 I was wondering how things would've changed if you picked Narc to kill rather than CR.

[Grover]

I'm a little down about because I had path on my radar as a potential target from D1. We decided to do what we did to cause confusion and it worked to an extent.

We really were closer than I want to admit. I'd just rather be bummed out about losing so handily.

[Autumn]

I'm a little down about because I had path on my radar as a potential target from D1. We decided to do what we did to cause confusion and it worked to an extent.

We really were closer than I want to admit. I'd just rather be bummed out about losing so handily.

Hey now, at least it wasn't a shutout!

[britrock88]

You haven't even been able to get into the flow of a role. You started as single person bad team, then went to a power role and now you were a wolf on an all newbie team. Trust me it gets easier or at least more comfortable.

Yeah, Grover. I can already picture the relief you'll feel when you get a couple cracks at being a vanilla.

[britrock88]

And wolf-team, good job on assessing the situation and trying some out-of-the-box play. You had to deal with a veteran village and were on the wrong side of some of the breaks of the game. Keep at it!