OT: A Song of Ice and Fire Series (spoilers inside)

[JAG]

Please George R. R. Martin, finish the fourth book of the series sometime soon.

If you like fantasy-type sci-fi and you haven't read these yet, you are doing yourself a serious disservice. These are three of the best books I've read in a long time.

EDIT:

(4/9/07)

Please George R. R. Martin, finish the fifth book of the series sometime soon.

If you like fantasy-type sci-fi and you haven't read these yet, you are doing yourself a serious disservice. These are four of the best books I've read in a long time.

[SlapBone]

Please George R. R. Martin, finish the fourth book of the series sometime soon.

If you like fantasy-type sci-fi and you haven't read these yet, you are doing yourself a serious disservice. These are three of the best books I've read in a long time.


Yes, I think George's books are WAY better than the movies.

[Glengoyne]

I agree, and my wife says the fourth book is due sometime this spring, March maybe.

[Chief Rum]

I saw the spring deadline on Martin's own Web site, but that was months ago. You know how things change as work progresses. It's amazing to me it has taken him this long.

I did find out, interestingly enough, that this fourth book to be written was originally never to be. Apparently Martin was going to take up the stories of the characters a good five years after the end of the third book, which is basically what is in the fifth and/or sixth books now, if I understand it correctly.

His switch to writing out what happens in that time period (and I'm not sure what precipitated that change) is apparently a big reason for the long delay in getting this one out.

CR

[sachmo71]

Martin is the bomb.

[RendeR]

I have to agree, of all the series I've read (and in 35 years thats been a LOT of series) this has to be the most engrossing. I love the style of each chapter being from another characters point of view. Seeing how everyone is thinking in depth, they're hopes their fears, its just awesome. I think my favorite trait overall is the very real feel he gives to the world. as you read you can really feel like you know and understand the world around them, which, when he throws in some of the magi really affect you as the reader all the more.

Cannot wait to have the next one!!

[fantastic flying froggies]

Thank you for the info. To paraphrase the 1st post, "I do like fantasy-type sci-fi and I haven't read these yet, so I am doing myself a serious disservice."

I will hunt them down.

[fantastic flying froggies]

dola - according to Amazon, the 4th book is due out in April.

[thealmighty]

Have them all and love them as well.

[Bad-example]

I have been a fan of Martin since reading his novella Sandkings. It was a real shame that the film rights, which changed hands a couple times I believe, ended up in the hands of the Outer Limits people. They absolutely butchered the original story in what was the debut episode on Showtime.

Thanks for the heads up...looking forward to checking this series out.

[Samdari]

I LOVE these books. They are the only ones that have kept me up late at night to find out what happens in the past 10 years. I read them all in about a month (as compared to the six months it took me to get through Cryptonomicon).

As for "A Feast for Crows" (the upcoming fourth book) Martin's own website (updated jan04) basically says (say it with me, computer game fans) it will be out when it's done. An exact quote - "Various websites and bookshops have announced various publication dates, but until the book is actually finished and delivered, they are all pure guesswork."

Another series that I enjoyed tremendously is Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Series. It is a retelling (with MAJOR changes) of the Arthurian legends, from the point of view of a common spearman. It is similar to the Song of Ice and Fire series in that its heavy on swords and spears, lighter on mysticism and magic.

[sachmo71]

If you like Authurian legend, I would recommend the books of A.A. Attanasio, starting with The Dragon and the Unicorn (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061057797/ref=pd_sim_books_3/104-9941571-4507149?v=glance&s=books). Great reads.

[Blade]

I have to chime in here...I love this series! I have read them over and over again...just a great writer.

George Martin does update his web site often, and he says that as soon as he is done the fourth book, he will let everyone know on his web site that it is done. So, as for bookstores predicting release dates, they are all just guesses...as was mentioned earlier, it will be done when it is done.

And please, George, hurry up!

[the_meanstrosity]

Martin is definitely a great read.

Another author fantasy fans may want to check out is Melanie Rawn. She starts off with the Dragon Prince series (Dragon Prince, The Star Scroll, and Sunrunner's Fire) and then follows with the Dragon Star series (Stronghold, The Dragon Token, and Skybowl). Similar to Martin, she introduces you to a ruling family during a time of political turmoil. And like Martin, she has a number of characters and does a great job at following the family through the interesting times.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Best fantasy series I've ever read. Granted I haven't read too many because I usually start and then get quickly turned off. The first three books are amazing. The fat man better finish this fourth book soon. Enough is enough already.

That and I worry about his health. Did anyone see the picture of him holding the baby tiger on his website? He looked terrifying and awful. He must live to finish the series.

I had huge concerns when Stephen King got hit by that van when the Dark Tower series was still pending.

[sachmo71]

Best fantasy series I've ever read. Granted I haven't read too many because I usually start and then get quickly turned off. The first three books are amazing. The fat man better finish this fourth book soon. Enough is enough already.

That and I worry about his health. Did anyone see the picture of him holding the baby tiger on his website? He looked terrifying and awful. He must live to finish the series.

I had huge concerns when Stephen King got hit by that van when the Dark Tower series was still pending.

Have you never seen an old nerd before? He's fine, he's just a dork.

[ratpfink]

dola - according to Amazon, the 4th book is due out in April.
At one time Amazon said the 4th book was due out in April... 2003. Yeah, I've had it pre-ordered for about a year and can't wait for it to finally be published. Of course when it comes out I'm going to have to go back and re-read the first 3 books but that's not really such a bad thing.

[sachmo71]

Sample chapter from A Feast of Crows up at georgerrmartin.com.


http://www.georgerrmartin.com/chapter.html


YAY!!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Sample chapter from A Feast of Crows up at georgerrmartin.com.


http://www.georgerrmartin.com/chapter.html


YAY!!
ENOUGH WITH THE SAMPLES!!!

I WANT THE ENTIRE THING!

It's been FOUR AND A HALF YEARS!

[KeyserSoze]

I love the books. I´ve convince 6 people to read the books and all same the things.

I think this books are spreading in a mouth to ear basis, but they are greats.


PD: Maybe we can buy the stasis bed of Michael Jackson (since in the jail he wont need it) to preserve Martin... :D

[Galaril]

He is a link to a great site that has a ton of character portraits from the books . Excellent work.

Link to character gallery web site (http://amoka.net/eng/arch.html)

[Honolulu_Blue]

There is also an RPG (d20 system) based on the books due out this summer. The artwork looks great and though I only RP about once or twice a year nowadays, I'll still pick it up if nothing to act as a sourcebook for the novels themselves.

[Galaril]

There is also an RPG (d20 system) based on the books due out this summer. The artwork looks great and though I only RP about once or twice a year nowadays, I'll still pick it up if nothing to act as a sourcebook for the novels themselves.


Link please. :D

[Honolulu_Blue]

Link please. :D
But of course...

http://agot.guardiansorder.com/

Thanks for the link to the gallery. Some great stuff in there!

[terpkristin]

And here I was, hoping this meant that there was more news on it (of course, I'd have heard, so I shoudln't have hoped...I'm on a GRRM yahoo group).

Sigh.
/tk

[Chief Rum]

I can't believe the last book in a continuous series came out when Clinton was president.

Yeah, I agreee, this guy needs to get off his ass and finish the darn book.

[SackAttack]

I can't believe the last book in a continuous series came out when Clinton was president.

Yeah, I agreee, this guy needs to get off his ass and finish the darn book.

I can top that. My favorite author, Bernard Cornwell, started writing a Civil War series when I was in junior high. The 4th book in the series came out something like 10 years ago, and though he promised to continue, nothing yet.

So the last book in that series came out when Clinton was President...the first time.

[sachmo71]

I like the collected works of Homer, so I beat you all.

[finkenst]

And here I was, hoping this meant that there was more news on it (of course, I'd have heard, so I shoudln't have hoped...I'm on a GRRM yahoo group).

Sigh.
/tk
goddammit...

and here i htought the 4th was finished!

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

[Calis]

Good news folks.

It appears that Martin is finished with the book. From reading around it appears he was telling people at a convention in Kansas City that it was done, and it was confirmed on his website.

The bad news?

It's cut, looks like there will be no Jon or Dany in this book, it'll instead focus on the South. More importantly though, it sounds like no Tyrion, which makes me sad. Guess the publisher gave him a page limit, so he had to move large chunks of the book into the NEXT one.

[terpkristin]

Actually, from what I read earlier today (from [email protected]):
Official Post at http;//www.georgerrmartin.com will be Monday.

Info from another board I follow. Posted by George Wife Paris
herself. Confirmation that is.

George announced at the end of his reading that

A FEAST FOR CROWS IS FINISHED!

and no one is more pleased with this announcement than George and
myself. There will be an formal announcement posted to his web site
Monday, and as he said at the reading, as soon as the publishers
have firm pub dates, he'll let you know.

I've read many drafts of the book, and given the complexity of the
greter story he is creating for us, this is not only a good solution
to the problems of manufacturing such a huge book, it gives us
complete arcs for several characters sooner, rather than telling
half the story of more characters over a longer period of time.
There's enough blood and treachery and gorgeous writing in FEAST to
satisfy us for a good long read, I promise.

I hope most readers are happy about this, in the longer view of the
strength of the series. I have been saying for several years that
ASoI&F would be at least 7 books long. Check with me again in a year
and we'll see if that's changed.

More Info:

This is no hoax.

I swear it by ice and fire. I swear that I will never post again
should this prove false. I swear I will never touch wine again, if
it is not true.

George said it is done.

But he had to make a major change. It had grown too large.

Daenerys will not appear. There will be little if any action in the
North. Those chapters will be moved into the next book, which should
come out shortly thereafter.

AFFC will be the size of AGoT.

Expected release date is Sep-Oct, around the same time in US and UK
(maybe slightly earlier in UK but not significantly so)

Edit: Also confirmed by George is the fact that there will be 7
books.

GRRM explained it as follows.

The book was still incomplete and it was 80 (book) pages longer than
aSoS. He thought it would take an extra 100 manuscript pages to
finish it fully. His publishers were really anxious to get it
published this fall so he was left with 3 choices.

1) Find a quick way to wrap up the remaining chapters and try to
sweat the stuff he has already done to reduce the size of the book.
Even though it was unfinished, it was already too big for them.

2) Cut the book in half by timeline, publishing the first half this
fall.

3) Cut the book in half by POV.

The first option was a bad one in my opinion. You don't want the
author to cut chapters, or characters because of the publishers.
GRRM didn't like that either.

The second one has advantages in that it updates us with all the
POVs but OTOH it leaves the stories all unfinished. Everything just
suddenly ends.

Option 3 means a tighter book. We get 7 or 8 POVs like aGoT, rather
than 15. We don't get lost by the huge number of plotlines.

Spoilers GRRM said Dany and the Wall is excluded. That removes Dany
and probably Tyrion plus the Wall which presumably means Jon and
Davos. Probably Sam too although he may be going south. This leaves
the Dorne chapters, Jaime, Cersei, Sansa in aFfC. Arya is hard to
say. Similarly the Iron Islands. The latter seems more like the
North to me. But I haven't read them. And who knows where the
mystery POV falls into. End Spoilers

So aFfC gets published this fall. In October or September. Its
likely that the books will be published in the US and the UK at the
same time. Although the UK may get a couple of weeks headstart.

There will be no Daenerys chapters. There will be none of the
chapters up North. The chapters in the South are done and in the
hands of the publishers - George expects to announce a specific fall
publication date. That means he can spend a little more time
cleaning up the events in the North and present a coherent tale with
a beginning and an end.

The next book will still be called aDwD. (Dany will be in it after
all). This is where things get oblique again. Even though he was 100
pages away from finishing aFfC originally, he says he has 600 of an
expected 1100 pages yet to write in aDwD. So clearly he feels he is
putting stuff into it that he originally earmarked for the old
version of aDwD.

He expects some of his fans to be upset when their favorite
characters don't appear. But they can take comfort in the fact that
the fifth book is now 60% or more done. And they will have the
fourth in the fall.

This might refer to something he mentioned earlier in May about
finding a way to deal with some characters been too young and he
wants to skip ahead, while others are too active. He will just drop
them.

He has offically announced that the book will take 7 books. I think
aDwD will take 1 to 2 years to come out after aFfC. Getting aFfC
will relieve a lot of pressure and make things easier to progress.
Hurrah!!

/tk

[Calis]

Hate the fact there's no Tyrion and John though, my two favorite characters. I dig the wall stuff.

Oh well, means I'll REALLY enjoy the next book. ;)

[bronconick]

Martin, at least for myself, has had the unfortunate situation of following after Robert Jordan's fall from grace. After that series, which I unfortunately became addicted to back in the Bush I administration, has dragged out, and frankly, lost much of the quality it originally had, I'm now waiting for that one to just finish, and I swore off spending money on any other fantasy series that isn't finished. (I have ASOIAF because I've asked for the books as gifts over the years) I've read the first two, liked them, but haven't gone more then 50 pages into book 3 yet simply because I'm sick and damn tired of authors taking 2-3 years to put something out.

And now Martin wrote so much he has to split the same amount of time into two books? Suckers. He's following the same path RJ did. (See books 5-10 for examples)

This is going to turn into another 12 book 20 year project. Maybe it's just the curse of making such a deep world, that if your name isn't Tolkien, you get sucked into more and more details as things slow to a crawl, both in publication and in plot movement.

[HomerJSimpson]

Hate the fact there's no Tyrion and John though, my two favorite characters. I dig the wall stuff.

Oh well, means I'll REALLY enjoy the next book. ;)

I'm disappointed in that as well, but I'm happy we're finally getting another book. I hate "unfinished" series as much as bronconick, but this series is so much better than just about any fantasy series I've ever read that there is nothing to do but wait.

[sabotai]

Count me as someone who doesn't like unfinished series. But I'm kind of late to the party when it comes to reading fantasy (been mostly a sci-fi and historic epic reader) so I have plenty of finished series to keep me busy until the unfinished ones are completed.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Martin, at least for myself, has had the unfortunate situation of following after Robert Jordan's fall from grace. After that series, which I unfortunately became addicted to back in the Bush I administration, has dragged out, and frankly, lost much of the quality it originally had, I'm now waiting for that one to just finish, and I swore off spending money on any other fantasy series that isn't finished. (I have ASOIAF because I've asked for the books as gifts over the years) I've read the first two, liked them, but haven't gone more then 50 pages into book 3 yet simply because I'm sick and damn tired of authors taking 2-3 years to put something out.

And now Martin wrote so much he has to split the same amount of time into two books? Suckers. He's following the same path RJ did. (See books 5-10 for examples)

This is going to turn into another 12 book 20 year project. Maybe it's just the curse of making such a deep world, that if your name isn't Tolkien, you get sucked into more and more details as things slow to a crawl, both in publication and in plot movement.
I never read any Robert Jordan or any other modern fantasy series. Actually the last pure fantasy series I read were the Dragon Lance books. I pretty much stopped after the first six, which I think told the entire story if I recall.

I guess I had a similar experience with Stephen King's "Dark Tower" series, but that's all wrapped up now.

I will patiently wait for Martin to finish his books. His world is incredibly deep and he's in a bit of bind after "A Storm of Swords." The war in Westeros is pretty much done and many of his main characters are scattered to the four corners of the earth (Bran, Arya, Tyrion, etc.) and will have little or no connection with many of the other plotlines going forward.

I will hold off bitching about things until I read it.

[Tigercat]

I'm not sure I will continue the series if his next book is not going into the two storylines left that are most interesting to me. Although it may be interesting to get some Dornish history and stories and seeing stories around a certain female character back from beyond the grave at the end of the last book. Still, I think it might be better to cut my losses. Its tough to get involved in characters in such a brutal series with long waits for the next book, and if the next book is going to ignore the most interesting characters all together....

[ISiddiqui]

This is going to turn into another 12 book 20 year project. Maybe it's just the curse of making such a deep world, that if your name isn't Tolkien, you get sucked into more and more details as things slow to a crawl, both in publication and in plot movement.
And that's the main problem isn't it? When creating such a deep world, you have to spend far far far more time in the later novels making sure you didn't contradict some nuance in the previous ones. With all the internet fanboys, looking to nitpick the novel to death, one slip up may haunt you.

[bronconick]

And that's the main problem isn't it? When creating such a deep world, you have to spend far far far more time in the later novels making sure you didn't contradict some nuance in the previous ones. With all the internet fanboys, looking to nitpick the novel to death, one slip up may haunt you.

This, of course, made me think of the Xena episode of the Simpsons. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Mota]

This is going to turn into another 12 book 20 year project. Maybe it's just the curse of making such a deep world, that if your name isn't Tolkien, you get sucked into more and more details as things slow to a crawl, both in publication and in plot movement.

I think the last thing in the world you could accuse GRRM of is lacking in plot development. Every book has TONS of story to it and a lot of changes. Matter of fact, most of the characters you liked in the first book are probably dead by the time the 4th one will be out. :)

[Honolulu_Blue]

It's been confirmed. Good scoop, Terp!

From GRRM's website:

No, I haven't finished writing everything I wanted to include in A FEAST FOR CROWS. I have wrapped up a whole bunch of characters and storylines since the last update in January, but "a whole bunch" does not equate to "all."

And I was facing another problem as well: the sheer size of the book.

All of the books in this series have been big, mind you. A GAME OF THRONES weighed in at 1088 pages in manuscript, not counting the appendices. A CLASH OF KINGS was even longer at 1184 pages, not counting the appendices. And A STORM OF SWORDS measured a gargantuan 1521 pages in manuscript, not counting the (etc).

Any publisher will tell you that a book as big as A STORM OF SWORDS is a production nightmare, and STORM did indeed cause problems for many of my publishers around the world. In some languages it was divided into two, three, or even four volumes. Bantam published STORM in a single volume in the United States, but not without difficulty. Pretty much everyone agreed that it would be a really good thing if the fourth volume in the series came in somewhat shorter than STORM, so I set out with the idea of delivering a FEAST closer in length to A CLASH OF KINGS.

Alas for good intentions. In hindsight, I should have known better. The story makes its own demands, as Tolkien once said, and my story kept demanding to get bigger and more complicated.

I passed A CLASH OF KINGS last year, and still had plenty more to write. By January, I had more than 1300 pages, and still had storylines unfinished. About three weeks ago I hit 1527 pages of final draft, surpassing A STORM OF SWORDS... but I also had another hundred or so pages of roughs and incomplete chapters, as well as other chapters sketched out but entirely unwritten. That was when I realized that the light I'd seen at the end of the tunnel was actually the headlight of an onrushing locomotive.

And that's why my publishers and I, after much discussion and weighing of alternatives, have decided to split the narrative into two books (printing in microtype on onion skin paper and giving each reader a magnifying glass was not considered feasible, and I was reluctant to make the sort of deep cuts that would have been necessary to get the book down to a more publishable length, which I felt would have compromised the story).

The first plan was simply to lop the text in half. In that scenario, I would finish the last few chapters in as short a length (and time) as possible. That would have produced a story of maybe 1650 to 1700 pages in manuscript, which we would simply have broken into two chunks of roughly equal length and published as A FEAST FOR CROWS, Part One and A FEAST FOR CROWS, Part Two.

We decided not to do that. It was my feeling -- and I pushed hard for this, so if you don't like the solution, blame me, not my publishers -- that we were better off telling all the story for half the characters, rather than half the story for all the characters. Cutting the novel in half would have produced two half-novels; our approach will produce two novels taking place simultaneously, but set hundreds or even thousands of miles apart, and involving different casts of characters (with some overlap).

The division has been done, and it think it works quite well. The upshot is, A FEAST FOR CROWS is now moving into production. It is still a long book, but not too long; about the same size as A GAME OF THRONES. The focus in FEAST will be on Westeros, King's Landing, the riverlands, Dorne, and the Iron Islands. More than that I won't say.

Meanwhile, all the characters and stories removed from FEAST are moving right into A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, which will focus on events in the east and north. All the chapters I have not yet finished and/or begun are moving into DANCE. I think this is very good, if truth be told, since it will give me the room to complete those arcs as I had originally intended, rather than trying to tie them up quickly in a chapter or two so I could deliver the massively late Big FEAST.

So there it is. I know some of you may be disappointed, especially when you buy A FEAST FOR CROWS and discover that your favorite character does not appear, but given the realities I think this was the best solution... and the more I look at it, the more convinced I am that these two parallel novels, when taken together, will actually tell the story better than one big book.

And if there are those who don't agree, and still want their Big FEAST with all the trimmings set out on one huge table... well, there's an easy fix. Get both books, razor the pages out with an Exacto knife, interleave the chapters as you think best, and bring the towering stack of text that results to your favorite bookbinder... and presto, chango the Big FEAST will live again.

As for me, I am getting back to work. There's good news on that front too -- A DANCE WITH DRAGONS is half-done!!!

(And before anyone asks, yes indeed, this development means that Parris was right all along. It will now probably require seven books to complete the story).

—George R.R. Martin, May 29, 2005

[Peregrine]

Matter of fact, most of the characters you liked in the first book are probably dead by the time the 4th one will be out.

Yeah, but from old age, that's the problem! :)

[Blade]

According to the George R. R. Martin web site, the next book should be in stores on November 8!

[sachmo71]

After A Feast of Crows?

[Coffee Warlord]

No Jon, no Dany, no Bran.

Yeesh.

[Mustang]

He always just strikes me as a.. how shall I say.. asshole. Kinda like Tom Clancy...

[Blade]

After A Feast of Crows?

That is for A Feast of Crows...

[Bee]

That is for A Feast of Crows...

what happened to the end of July?

[sachmo71]

No Jon, no Dany, no Bran.

Yeesh.



I could be entertained by a book about Lannisters. And the others.


And I also have to ask, "What happened to the end of July?"

[Blade]

And I also have to ask, "What happened to the end of July?"

No idea, but according to his web site, that is what Bantum Spectra has informed him as for when the Hardcover will be released.

[Honolulu_Blue]

He always just strikes me as a.. how shall I say.. asshole. Kinda like Tom Clancy...
Really? A good friend of mine has had multiple communications with the guy and he's been solid throughout. Mainly through e-bay purchases. But George RR has always been willing to sign the books or do whatever's been asked of him. Also pretty responsive for e-mails.

The guy writes amazing books. He loves the NFL draft. He was deeply depressed following the 2004 presidential election. Guy sounds about as solid as they come.

[Honolulu_Blue]

No Jon, no Dany, no Bran.

Yeesh.
That was my initial reaction. But George RR deserves the benefit of the doubt here. He's published three of the best fantasy novels ever. I am willing to think he can pull this off. Besides, I am more concerned about no Arya or perhaps even no Tyrion.

This is going to be a very important book for the series. It's the first real big shift. The prior three were pretty much all about Dany's raise to power in the east and the war of the Seven Kingdoms in the West. Dany is staying put for the moment and the war is pretty much done.

I can't wait.

[JAG]

Thank you Mr. Martin.

[Blade]

Really? A good friend of mine has had multiple communications with the guy and he's been solid throughout. Mainly through e-bay purchases. But George RR has always been willing to sign the books or do whatever's been asked of him. Also pretty responsive for e-mails.

The guy writes amazing books. He loves the NFL draft. He was deeply depressed following the 2004 presidential election. Guy sounds about as solid as they come.

I have to agree...I purchased a book off his site and he signed it for me. We exchanged about six or so emails and he was very responsive and very friendly with them...and this was during the time he was writing A Feast for Crows when he was getting bombarded with messages asking him when it would be done.

[Glengoyne]

This is a great series, and I can't wait to read the next offering.

I was a huge Jordan fan as well. I've favorably compared the first six books of the Wheel of Time to Tolkein's work. The problem is that since then Tolkein's work has far surpassed the overall quality of Jordan's series. The last book, I think the 10th has so far managed to quash every attempt I've made to read it.

[Senator]

This is the only non fiction stuff I have read in years. I have just finished the first book, and have the other two waiting before me (never read them). I think I can time it where I finish the third as the new one comes out.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This is the only non fiction stuff I have read in years. I have just finished the first book, and have the other two waiting before me (never read them). I think I can time it where I finish the third as the new one comes out.
Time it well, Sen. The third book leaves you haning something fierce. By the time Book IV comes, I will have been waiting just under 5 years for a resolution...

It's been killing me a little bit every day. It's only thanks to my amazing constitution (18 baby!) that I still live.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

He always just strikes me as a.. how shall I say.. asshole. Kinda like Tom Clancy...

I'm curious as to why he strikes you this way. Out of all the people I have ever met, Mr. Martin is by far one of the friendliest. He loves meeting his fans, and he loves talking about writing. He's really just a huge SF/Fantasy fan that writes great books.

[Mustang]

I'm curious as to why he strikes you this way. Out of all the people I have ever met, Mr. Martin is by far one of the friendliest. He loves meeting his fans, and he loves talking about writing. He's really just a huge SF/Fantasy fan that writes great books.

Let me preface this by saying I've never met the man.. Just that in reading his updates & comments on his website from time to time I always got a weird assholish vibe.. Then again, most of his comments were notes pretty much telling people he will be done when he is done so.... maybe he was just having a bad week. I could see how someone could get impatient with constant comment but, as a casual fan of his books, I didn't read his website all that often...

Guess I'll just have to fine tune my asshole meter then.. :D

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I can kind of see how you would get that impression from some of his updates. I think he was getting tired of hearing from irate "fans" that were getting on his case about the book taking so long to come out. I guess after years of hearing it from people, I would be a bit testy as well.

[sachmo71]

Looking for an a-hole author? Check out the author of Order of the Stick.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Looking for an a-hole author? Check out the author of Order of the Stick.
Really? What's up with the guy? So to here, because that is some funny stuff.

[Bee]

I'm sorry, but drawing stick figures as cartoons doesn't make the guy an author in my book.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm sorry, but drawing stick figures as cartoons doesn't make the guy an author in my book.
Even if the stick figures talk? Does he qualify as a "catoonist" at least?

[sachmo71]

I'm sorry, but drawing stick figures as cartoons doesn't make the guy an author in my book.



He published a book. Does that qualify him?

[Bee]

He published a book. Does that qualify him?

No, publishing a stick figure book doesn't count when you were talking about it in relationship to George RR Martin.

I do enjoy his comics though. :D

[sachmo71]

Well, he's a tool, author or no. Funny, but a tool.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Well, he's a tool, author or no. Funny, but a tool.
Why is he a tool? We want the 411 on this, Sachs.

[sachmo71]

Why is he a tool? We want the 411 on this, Sachs.


Well, that may not be fair of me to say, either.

Before he published his Order of the Stick collection, he let everyone know that he would need to ensure the publisher that a certain number of books would be sold...I believe around 1500.
To be able to pay for the publishing, he also needed to set up a pre-order system. So everyone who wanted to ensure the book was published paid in advance for the book.

Well, lots and lots of things went wrong. He was screwed by his publisher, and someone who was supposed to help him ship. The book delivery slipped by months. People started to get nervous. People started emailing him, asking him where there books were.

In my mind, this is where things went bad. I think he treated his customers very poorly when asked about what was going on with the orders. I really can't give specific examples, but you are welcome to read his homepage and messageboard and judge for yourself.


www.giantitp.com

Most of the info can be found in the Home and Post links, specifically the Book Ordering Problems thread in the Comics section of his message board.

[Samdari]

This is the only non fiction stuff I have read in years.

I have bad news for you senator - the stuff in these books didn't really happen, Martin made them up.

[Senator]

Nice catch..........

[Calis]

Well this doesn't have to do with Martin, but might as well post it here.

Martin was really the last fantasy I've read. I've grown pretty tired of it, and just think it's stale. I also think about 99% of the writers are god awful bad, so that doesn't help matters.

I did the other day stop by the library and pick up Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson, the first book in his Malazan Book of the Fallen series.

Anyone read this? I'm loving it so far, it reminds me a bit of Martin in its' scope but it focuses more on events than characters imo. It reminds me a lot of The Black Company series by Glenn Cook but written a helluva lot more coherently.
I'm curious if the quality keeps up through the series but so far I'm really loving it.

It's a bit different though because he doesn't ease you into his world at all, he throws you right into the middle of it and doesn't dumb it down for you. So you're lost for a good portion of the reading, but slowly pieces keep coming together and you gain a comprehension. It works out really well, comes across a lot more believable than a character going into several pages of monologue about his whole life story and family history.

Anyway, just a heads up..I think people who like Martin would enjoy this(assuming the quality keeps up, and it sounds as if it does). It's a little more fantasy than Martin, there's a heavy dose of magic, but it's a unique and pretty interesting magic system he uses. No Elves or Dwarves as of yet either. :)

Something to tide you over, and it's got me reading Fantasy again.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Well this doesn't have to do with Martin, but might as well post it here.

Martin was really the last fantasy I've read. I've grown pretty tired of it, and just think it's stale. I also think about 99% of the writers are god awful bad, so that doesn't help matters.

I did the other day stop by the library and pick up Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson, the first book in his Malazan Book of the Fallen series.

Anyone read this? I'm loving it so far, it reminds me a bit of Martin in its' scope but it focuses more on events than characters imo. It reminds me a lot of The Black Company series by Glenn Cook but written a helluva lot more coherently.
I'm curious if the quality keeps up through the series but so far I'm really loving it.

It's a bit different though because he doesn't ease you into his world at all, he throws you right into the middle of it and doesn't dumb it down for you. So you're lost for a good portion of the reading, but slowly pieces keep coming together and you gain a comprehension. It works out really well, comes across a lot more believable than a character going into several pages of monologue about his whole life story and family history.

Anyway, just a heads up..I think people who like Martin would enjoy this(assuming the quality keeps up, and it sounds as if it does). It's a little more fantasy than Martin, there's a heavy dose of magic, but it's a unique and pretty interesting magic system he uses. No Elves or Dwarves as of yet either. :)

Something to tide you over, and it's got me reading Fantasy again.
Thanks for the head's up. Sounds promising.

[sachmo71]

I plan on reading his stuff...thanks for the recommendation!

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I tried to read this several months ago, but I just couldn't get into it. Perhaps I just wasn't in the right frame of mind. I really should give it another go because of all the good things I have heard about it.

[terpkristin]

Thanks for the recommendation, Calis!
I've added it to my amazon wish list, so some time after I've finished re-reading GRRM, I'll probably pick it up :)

/tk

[sachmo71]

Is anyone else playing The Quest of Thrones (http://www.randomhouse.com/bantamdell/questofthrones/)?

[HomerJSimpson]

Is anyone else playing The Quest of Thrones (http://www.randomhouse.com/bantamdell/questofthrones/)?


No, but I did finally get to play the board game two weeks ago. I liked it.

[sachmo71]

No, but I did finally get to play the board game two weeks ago. I liked it.


b-b-b...boardgame?
there exists such a creature? have you a link?

[HomerJSimpson]

b-b-b...boardgame?
there exists such a creature? have you a link?


http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/agotbg.html


There is a game and expansion. I only played the original game, but my friend says that the expansion is a must.

[Honolulu_Blue]

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/agotbg.html


There is a game and expansion. I only played the original game, but my friend says that the expansion is a must.
Didn't know about the expansion. I will have to look it up. I did order the role playing game on-line. In fact, I downloaded a PDF version of it a few weeks ago. I sorta forgot about that.

Martin is going to be in DC on Saturday as part of the "National Book Festival." He's going to be speaking from 2:30 - 3:00 and signing from 3:00 - 5:00. I plan to bring my first editions of all three down to the mall for some George R.R. signage.

[Coder]

I'm about half-way through the third book now and it's simply _the_ best fantasy I've ever read.. not that it's a huge accomplishment (I'm not really a fantasy buff). But not only is it excellent fantasy, it's awesomely written as a whole. He's simply a brilliant author. He's got that extra touch that so many "popular" authors lack.. his books are exciting while reading, and they're not just 500 pages of transport until they finally "break out".

His foreshadowing, his attention to detail, the way he drops little hints but doesn't really open those issues up just yet is fantastic.. some authors who have great ideas sort of hint a little but then don't have the patience to wait and stretch the reader's imagination, and instead tosses out what could have been an awesome surprise a little later.. take Jon for example.. we've known that there's a mystery with his ancestry since the first chapter of the first book.. we get a little hint here and a little hint there, but Martin isn't giving us the whole cake just yet.

From the beginning I was considering waiting for the paperback of A Feast for Crows, but now I simply can't wait. October 17th is the European release date for the hardback and I'm buying... can't wait until next spring for the paperback.

[Sadalia]

I have to go against the prevailing wind here and say that A Song of Ice and Fire didn't really do anything for me. Too many tangents that feel like filler, with no real meat of a story in there; I found myself thinking 'get to the point' too often for my liking. There's also the problem of series fatigue that I also had with Jordan; I just lost interest after a while.

Martin certainly has a lot of skill with prose, and you have to respect the depth of the world he's created, but I guess everyone has individual tastes, and he just doesn't float my boat.

[Galaril]

I have to go against the prevailing wind here and say that A Song of Ice and Fire didn't really do anything for me. Too many tangents that feel like filler, with no real meat of a story in there; I found myself thinking 'get to the point' too often for my liking. There's also the problem of series fatigue that I also had with Jordan; I just lost interest after a while.

Martin certainly has a lot of skill with prose, and you have to respect the depth of the world he's created, but I guess everyone has individual tastes, and he just doesn't float my boat.

Blasphemer!

[sachmo71]

I have to go against the prevailing wind here and say that A Song of Ice and Fire didn't really do anything for me. Too many tangents that feel like filler, with no real meat of a story in there; I found myself thinking 'get to the point' too often for my liking. There's also the problem of series fatigue that I also had with Jordan; I just lost interest after a while.

Martin certainly has a lot of skill with prose, and you have to respect the depth of the world he's created, but I guess everyone has individual tastes, and he just doesn't float my boat.


:respect:

[Honolulu_Blue]

I have to go against the prevailing wind here and say that A Song of Ice and Fire didn't really do anything for me. Too many tangents that feel like filler, with no real meat of a story in there; I found myself thinking 'get to the point' too often for my liking. There's also the problem of series fatigue that I also had with Jordan; I just lost interest after a while.

Martin certainly has a lot of skill with prose, and you have to respect the depth of the world he's created, but I guess everyone has individual tastes, and he just doesn't float my boat.
No real meat? Filler? Series fatigue? Madness. That's pure madness. If anything, all of the tangents have a ton of meat (even minor characters are fascinating). Series fatigue? I've been suffering series starvation for the last five years.

[Coder]

I have to go against the prevailing wind here and say that A Song of Ice and Fire didn't really do anything for me. Too many tangents that feel like filler, with no real meat of a story in there; I found myself thinking 'get to the point' too often for my liking. There's also the problem of series fatigue that I also had with Jordan; I just lost interest after a while.

Martin certainly has a lot of skill with prose, and you have to respect the depth of the world he's created, but I guess everyone has individual tastes, and he just doesn't float my boat.

While I see your point about the story dragging out and you waiting for him to "reveal" what's next, that is - as I mentioned above - what I admire about him. He dares to hold on to his secrets and not spill the beans just to get a quick reaction from the reader.. instead he lets you wait and speculate, giving you a sense that the story isn't over just because the battle is won in chapter so and so, there's always more to come.

I also love his foreshadowing.. the dead direwolf in the beginning with the antler in his neck is just awesome.. I didn't fully grasp it until he went on to explain about the heraldry a few chapters later.. those little things just take the stories to a different level.

[HomerJSimpson]

I have to go against the prevailing wind here and say that A Song of Ice and Fire didn't really do anything for me. Too many tangents that feel like filler, with no real meat of a story in there; I found myself thinking 'get to the point' too often for my liking. There's also the problem of series fatigue that I also had with Jordan; I just lost interest after a while.

Martin certainly has a lot of skill with prose, and you have to respect the depth of the world he's created, but I guess everyone has individual tastes, and he just doesn't float my boat.


That's too bad, but not everybody likes the same thing. I don't get the "filler" or "lack of meat" at all. Discribes Jordan perfectly, but I find Martin always advancing the story in every chapter. Maybe not in huge leaps, but never standing still. Plus, the grittyness of the world feels more "real" than any fantasy series I've ever read.

[Bee]

That's too bad, but not everybody likes the same thing. I don't get the "filler" or "lack of meat" at all. Discribes Jordan perfectly, but I find Martin always advancing the story in every chapter. Maybe not in huge leaps, but never standing still. Plus, the grittyness of the world feels more "real" than any fantasy series I've ever read.

I agree completely. That describes what I like so much about the series, it feels "real" and the story always seems to advance without getting bogged down like the Wheel of Time series did after the first couple books.

[WSUCougar]

without getting bogged down like the Wheel of Time series did after the first couple books.
Agreed, and this is such a significant trait for a good storyteller, in my opinion. I've enjoyed much of the WOT series, but Jordan wallows in the details of each plot, major and secondary, and introduces so many characters you almost want to groan out loud when a new one starts off a chapter. On the flip side, Martin advances the plot on multiple fronts, and then has the principal characters reflect on other events that have happened as their plot line continues from their chapter perspective.

[Coffee Warlord]

Agreed, and this is such a significant trait for a good storyteller, in my opinion. I've enjoyed much of the WOT series, but Jordan wallows in the details of each plot, major and secondary, and introduces so many characters you almost want to groan out loud when a new one starts off a chapter. On the flip side, Martin advances the plot on multiple fronts, and then has the principal characters reflect on other events that have happened as their plot line continues from their chapter perspective.

If Martin goes into a full chapter about someone's dress, the cup they are drinking tea out of, and the kind of tea they are drinking, you know we're doomed.

*mutters about Jordan ruining a perfectly good series*

[Marc Vaughan]

Another series that I enjoyed tremendously is Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Series. It is a retelling (with MAJOR changes) of the Arthurian legends, from the point of view of a common spearman. It is similar to the Song of Ice and Fire series in that its heavy on swords and spears, lighter on mysticism and magic.

I concur - that was a fantastic series :D

[WSUCougar]

If Martin goes into a full chapter about someone's dress, the cup they are drinking tea out of, and the kind of tea they are drinking, you know we're doomed.

*mutters about Jordan ruining a perfectly good series*
I'm with ya, Java Brother. By that last book, I need a friggin' scorecard just to keep track of all the Aes Sedai.

"Now pitching for the White Tower...a disheveled brown from Caemlyn...chubby, with a nose that is perpetually red...she often mumbles under her breath...she likes tea, of course...and, like all other Aes Sedai, frequently re-arranges her skirt or other garments...Jornaaaaaaaa Reeeeeeeed!"

[sachmo71]

I'm with ya, Java Brother. By that last book, I need a friggin' scorecard just to keep track of all the Aes Sedai.

"Now pitching for the White Tower...a disheveled brown from Caemlyn...chubby, with a nose that is perpetually red...she often mumbles under her breath...she likes tea, of course...and, like all other Aes Sedai, frequently re-arranges her skirt or other garments...Jornaaaaaaaa Reeeeeeeed!"


GOLD!!!!

[Sadalia]

Another series that I enjoyed tremendously is Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Series. It is a retelling (with MAJOR changes) of the Arthurian legends, from the point of view of a common spearman. It is similar to the Song of Ice and Fire series in that its heavy on swords and spears, lighter on mysticism and magic.

Missed that on my first reading of this thread, but Marc's post brought it to my attention--the Warlord series in great, Cornwell's best work, and although it's obviously based in myth and not fact it makes Dark Ages Britain live and breathe with a solid sense of reality. The battle scenes are among the most vivid and exciting I've read; I'd say the series as whole reminded me more of David Gemmell or Steven Pressfield's Gates of Fire than G.R.R. Martin, though.

[HomerJSimpson]

The good news on the Jordan front (not to completely thread jack) is the word I heard from him and those who have read his newest book. He has promised that 12 would be the end, so that means he has to start actually finishing some story-lines, and from those who read the complete prolouge and first chapter says more happens in those two chapters than has happened in all of the last three books combined.

[Coffee Warlord]

The snippet of the prologue I just found and read *was* interesting. We'll see.

[sachmo71]

The good news on the Jordan front (not to completely thread jack) is the word I heard from him and those who have read his newest book. He has promised that 12 would be the end, so that means he has to start actually finishing some story-lines, and from those who read the complete prolouge and first chapter says more happens in those two chapters than has happened in all of the last three books combined.


Now I have to read the previous book? Bah!

[WSUCougar]

Now I have to read the previous book? Bah!
I can loan it to you if need be.

[bronconick]

The good news on the Jordan front (not to completely thread jack) is the word I heard from him and those who have read his newest book. He has promised that 12 would be the end, so that means he has to start actually finishing some story-lines, and from those who read the complete prolouge and first chapter says more happens in those two chapters than has happened in all of the last three books combined.
A spoiler filled post on one of the Jordan fan sites implies that he does actually *gasp* tie up story lines in this book, and almost all of the others have actual movement toward resolution.

He also looks to be in better shape physically then a couple years ago, so at least it looks like he won't die first.

Sachmo- Honestly, no you don't. I could probably sum the book up in about 3-4 paragraphs.

[Coffee Warlord]

Now I have to read the previous book? Bah!

No. You don't. Read the last 30-40 pages and you'll be up to speed.

I wish I was joking.

[sachmo71]

I can loan it to you if need be.


I own it, i just stopped reading it after a few dozen pages, because I couldn't remember who was who, what was what. I had a pretty good idea of where was where, though.


bronconick - i appreciate that

[WSUCougar]

Sachmo- Honestly, no you don't. I could probably sum the book up in about 3-4 paragraphs.
Rand got pissed and then fried some poor bastard Forsaken dude
Perrin howled at the moon
The dice are still tumbling in Mat's head

Elayne and Avienda are still hotties
The rogue Aiel captured more people and made them walk naked through the snow
Approximately 47 new Aes Sedai characters were introduced
The rebel Amrylin Seat seeks to seat her seat on the Seat in The White Tower, and advanced her army approximately 11.2 inches toward her goal.

[sachmo71]

Rand got pissed and then fried some poor bastard Forsaken dude
Perrin howled at the moon
The dice are still tumbling in Mat's head

Elayne and Avienda are still hotties
The rogue Aiel captured more people and made them walk naked through the snow
Approximately 47 new Aes Sedai characters were introduced
The rebel Amrylin Seat seeks to seat her seat on the Seat in The White Tower, and advanced her army approximately 11.2 inches toward her goal.


coug, you are killing me today! :LOL:

[Honolulu_Blue]

So I met George RR Martin yesterday. He was at the National Book Festival in the Mall in DC. An odd scene, considering the anti-war rally was going on a few blocks away.

Anyway, Martin followed a murderers row of authors in the Fiction/Fantasy tent: John Irving, Nail Gaiman, and Tom Wolfe. Martin talked for about 20 minutes, mainly about his career as a writer and then some about his work and the genre as a whole. He then fielded some questions.

It was great to see him. If anything his talk and the Q&A made me respect the man even more. He's got a solid head on his shoulders and was very pleasant.

Some highlights from the Q&A:

He was asked whether he gets any negative reaction from fans/critics because of how gritty/morally ambiguous and such this series is.

He said he had some (though they were way out numbered by the positive reaction), but it didn't bother him. There are a ton of fantasy writers out there and people who don't like his style can read them. He also said that the most negative reactions he got were towards the sex scenes in the book. He noted that it was quite a reflection on our society where you can describe in great detail an axe entering a man's skull and no one bats an eye, but if you describe a penis going into a vagina thousands of people flip out.

He also touched on Tolkien. He gave him mad props, of course, for his series and he loves them, but he said that it sort of put in motion a formula for the genre which has limited it a bit. Too many fantasy books are based off the Tolkien formula where the good guys where white cloaks, bad guys where black, and there is some dark force/overload trying to take over the world. The good/evil sides are pretty distinct and many stories don't go too much further than that. A good point.

As for the specifics on the series, he didn't add too much we don't already know. A Feast for Crows is coming out in November. He already has 500 pages of a Dance For Dragons written (about 50%). He is almost finished with another Dunc and Egg story (he plans to write one between each book in the series), though there will be no "Legends 3", so he's not sure where the story will be published.

He then signed books for about 2+ hours. Was very friendly there as well.

All in all, it was all good.

[WSUCougar]

Good stuff...thanks for the share, HB.

[sachmo71]

H_B,

Did Martin really give Tolkien "mad props"?? :P

[bronconick]

I own it, i just stopped reading it after a few dozen pages, because I couldn't remember who was who, what was what. I had a pretty good idea of where was where, though.


bronconick - i appreciate that
I think I like WSUCougar's version better, but here goes.

- Prologue has the most action, but introduces 15 new characters that you'll never see again.

- Mat creeps across Altara at roughly 50 feet per day, flirting with the 12 year old boy that apparently is his future wife. Kills a chick who tries to escape and tattle on him.

- Perrin sees ghosts and other sundry crap. Whines a lot. Doesn't make any progress.

- Lots of Elayne chapters involving sniffing, scoffing, and political stuff that would interest me if I was reading a non-fiction book. Nothing happens. No girl on girl scenes involving her and Aviendha, which is the only way to save this plotline.

- Egwene whines about headaches being given her by Halima, then at the end, they actually go out to close off the harbors to Tar Valon, and she gets her idiot self captured by the Tower.

- Rand sleeps a lot, has two chapters, I think, and at the end agrees through Bashere to meet the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" and Suroth of the Seanchan, which is interesting, considering where she actually is.

I think that was about it. Oh, and lots more sniffing.

[Honolulu_Blue]

H_B,

Did Martin really give Tolkien "mad props"?? :P
Yes. He used those words verbatim. :p

[JAG]

Thanks H_B. I was hoping he'd be stopping somewhere closer to MN during his Feast book tour, but it looks like I'll have to wait a bit longer to meet him.

[sachmo71]

Went ahead and preordered A Feat of Crows (again).
Also added The Art of Ice and fire.

[Glengoyne]

I think I like WSUCougar's version better, but here goes.

- Prologue has the most action, but introduces 15 new characters that you'll never see again.

- Mat creeps across Altara at roughly 50 feet per day, flirting with the 12 year old boy that apparently is his future wife. Kills a chick who tries to escape and tattle on him.

- Perrin sees ghosts and other sundry crap. Whines a lot. Doesn't make any progress.

- Lots of Elayne chapters involving sniffing, scoffing, and political stuff that would interest me if I was reading a non-fiction book. Nothing happens. No girl on girl scenes involving her and Aviendha, which is the only way to save this plotline.

- Egwene whines about headaches being given her by Halima, then at the end, they actually go out to close off the harbors to Tar Valon, and she gets her idiot self captured by the Tower.

- Rand sleeps a lot, has two chapters, I think, and at the end agrees through Bashere to meet the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" and Suroth of the Seanchan, which is interesting, considering where she actually is.

I think that was about it. Oh, and lots more sniffing. I think this could help me. I've tried to make it through this book, but just can't. I keep wondering if I'm reading about characters I should know about, or if they are completely new. This summary might have suffice as enough preparation to read the next book.

At one time I wrote a lengthy comparison of my feelings regarding the Wheel of Time series, and Tolkein's work. In the end I summed up by saying that I currently found the WoT more appealing, so Jordan was ever so slightly "ahead", but noted that as Jordan continued to write, Tolkein continued to make up ground. Were I to revisit this now, I would summarize that Jordan has fallen from his horse, which is now grazing contentedly on the infield grass, and that Tolkein is riding on apparently unchallenged toward the finish line. Wait, who is that coming up on Tolkein's heels? Oh hey that's G.R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire closing fast.

[bronconick]

I think this could help me. I've tried to make it through this book, but just can't. I keep wondering if I'm reading about characters I should know about, or if they are completely new. This summary might have suffice as enough preparation to read the next book.

At one time I wrote a lengthy comparison of my feelings regarding the Wheel of Time series, and Tolkein's work. In the end I summed up by saying that I currently found the WoT more appealing, so Jordan was ever so slightly "ahead", but noted that as Jordan continued to write, Tolkein continued to make up ground. Were I to revisit this now, I would summarize that Jordan has fallen from his horse, which is now grazing contentedly on the infield grass, and that Tolkein is riding on apparently unchallenged toward the finish line. Wait, who is that coming up on Tolkein's heels? Oh hey that's G.R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire closing fast.
Ironically, I have the three ASOIAF books, but I've now decided after Jordan that I'm not spending any money on any unfinished fantasy series. So I just stick it on a Christmas list every year. One slow writing bastard getting my money is enough at any one time. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif After Feast, I'll probably break down and do an indepth reading of the series. I'm just holding off as long as possible because then I'll be pissed along with the rest of y'all when it takes him 5 more years to get book 6 out after a quick turn around for 5 (which is supposedly half-finished already)

I always viewed Tolkein as being the "modern creator" of fantasy, and as such, really uncomparable with modern authors. Some of them write better, some of them have better dialogue, or even a better plot, but he revived the genre, and most of them are building off of him.

[bronconick]

Just an update on Jordan- Knife of Dreams does not actually suck. Getting a new editor actually helped. It's about as good as Lord of Chaos, and a definite step up from the last 3. Stuff happens. Quite a bit.

[terpkristin]

Oddly enough I was going to post in this thread...

Had a question for any of you who've listened to audio books and read the print books.

I read the GRRM books a few years ago, figured that in preparation for the release of AFFC, I'd refresh my memory of what happened in each book by listening to the audio book. It worked really well, as it turns out.

I was wondering if listening to the Robert Jordan books on audio book might be a good idea--if they're any easier to listen to than they are to read...any thoughts?

/tk

[sachmo71]

Oddly enough I was going to post in this thread...

Had a question for any of you who've listened to audio books and read the print books.

I read the GRRM books a few years ago, figured that in preparation for the release of AFFC, I'd refresh my memory of what happened in each book by listening to the audio book. It worked really well, as it turns out.

I was wondering if listening to the Robert Jordan books on audio book might be a good idea--if they're any easier to listen to than they are to read...any thoughts?

/tk


Just don't listen to Jordan's recent books while driving. You could kill someone.

[bronconick]

Just don't listen to Jordan's recent books while driving. You could kill someone.
Unless your CD player has a button that allows you to skip past/through any mention of "Hair tugging", "sniffing" , and "Egwene", I agree.

[GrantDawg]

Just an update on Jordan- Knife of Dreams does not actually suck. Getting a new editor actually helped. It's about as good as Lord of Chaos, and a definite step up from the last 3. Stuff happens. Quite a bit.

New editor? His always has and still does edit his books. What do you mean?


BTW, Feast of Crows came out in Europe yesterday, and my copy is winging over the Atlantic as we speak. :D

[Samdari]

New editor? His always has and still does edit his books. What do you mean?


BTW, Feast of Crows came out in Europe yesterday, and my copy is winging over the Atlantic as we speak. :D

How? Where? How Much?

[Sadalia]

British Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002247437/qid=1129208999/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-2863270-8619040) . Shipping will be an expense, but if you really want it... I got Robin Hobb's last couple of books early the same way.

[Eaglesfan27]

Just an update on Jordan- Knife of Dreams does not actually suck. Getting a new editor actually helped. It's about as good as Lord of Chaos, and a definite step up from the last 3. Stuff happens. Quite a bit.

Thanks for the update, I'll be looking forward to picking this up.

Of course, I'm also looking forward to getting book 4 of the Song of Ice and Fire Series.

[Toddiec]

Hey guys, bought book one of the Ice and Fire series and I am loving it so far. Thanks for the recommendation!

**Possible spoiler for those that haven't read it**






I was up until 2:00 am last night because I couldn't put it down after the king vs. boar encounter. Very intriguing politics at play in those chapters. Fun, fun stuff.

[WSUCougar]

You're in for a fun ride, Toddiec. Enjoy!

[Bee]

I didn't know about Jordan's book coming out. I'm going on a trip this weekend and I think I'll pick it up for some airplane reading...

[bronconick]

New editor? His always has and still does edit his books. What do you mean?

His wife was the only editor on the last 3 books. The first time the publishers got a look at it was right before they started printing it. They ran it by a professional editor as well this time, like books 1-7. It shows.

This book, combined with New Spring not being a 1,000 page discussion of Moiraine and Siuan's pillow friendship, makes me believe that he can finish this in 13 books, 12 (like he promised for the last 3 books) if he pushes and puts out a 900 page finale or so. Anything under 300 pages for the Last Battle will be irritating at this point.

[GrantDawg]

His wife was the only editor on the last 3 books. The first time the publishers got a look at it was right before they started printing it. They ran it by a professional editor as well this time, like books 1-7. It shows.

This book, combined with New Spring not being a 1,000 page discussion of Moiraine and Siuan's pillow friendship, makes me believe that he can finish this in 13 books, 12 (like he promised for the last 3 books) if he pushes and puts out a 900 page finale or so. Anything under 300 pages for the Last Battle will be irritating at this point.

He has promised 12 just recently.

[Glengoyne]

His wife was the only editor on the last 3 books. The first time the publishers got a look at it was right before they started printing it. They ran it by a professional editor as well this time, like books 1-7. It shows....

WoW. That was really when the whole thing fell apart. That gives me hope, and maybe even desire to slog through that last book, rather than depend on the above summaries.

[bronconick]

He has promised 12 just recently.
well, he said it this way


"..He informed us that the next book would be the last book for this "story", it might be a 2,000 page hard cover that you need a luggage cart to get out of the bookstore but it will be the last one.."

It might end up being something like Tad Williams' "To Green Angel Tower" , where it ended up being split into two volumes.

Either way, it'd be nice.

[terpkristin]

Another random question...
At amazon.co.uk I noticed that book 3 of ASOIAF for the UK version seems to have been split into two books, which I definitely did not see in the US version.
The US version is just "A Storm of Swords."
The UK versions are "A Storm of Swords: Steel and Snow" and "A Storm of Swords: Blood and Gold."

Is it just a first half/second half split? Or are there certain storylines or characters in each? What are the divisions?

Looking forward to AFFC here stateside. Might splurge and pick it up from the UK before too long.

/tk

[Coder]

The UK-split is simply the same version as the US-one but split in half.. no "new" storylines or anything..

Here's from his own FAQ:

Q: Your novels are broken up into several parts in my country, and published in multiple volumes. Why do you do that?

A: I don't. My publishers do. In France, in Italy, in Germany, in the Czech Republic, in Korea, in China, in Japan, and in several other countries, the novels have been published as two (or in some cases, three or four) books. My understanding is that this is largely a matter of economics. These are long novels even in English, and in many cases the process of translation can actually make a book longer. And each publisher presumably knows his own market, and what the readers will and will not accept in terms of book length and book price. Even some of the publishers who would prefer to issue each novel in a single volume -- my British, Dutch, and Hebrew publishers, for instance -- found themselves unable to do so in the case of A STORM OF SWORDS, where the sheer size of the book would have made it prohibitively expensive to produce, for their markets. I know it must be annoying to have the story broken up into two or three or four parts, but in some countries the choice is either that, or no edition at all. At least I am in good company. Tolkien's LORD OF THE RINGS was written as a single long novel, too. It was his publisher who decided to issue it as a trilogy, purely for commercial reasons.

[terpkristin]

Ah, I'd been curious maybe if half the storylines or character sections went into one half and the rest in the other. I mean, if the steel and snow version had to do with things with the north, and the other had to do with the south and Braavos, for example.

Or, how the parse was made...if it was just halfway down the spine, that's kind of boring.

/tk

[3ric]

I got Feast for Crows delivered today from amazon.co.uk, by the way... I'm looking forwards to start reading it tonight!

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, I just started to read the first book "Game of Thrones". Pretty good so far.

[DaddyTorgo]

400 pages into "game of thrones." Definately enjoying it. Knew by 200 or so that i was going to go out and buy the next 2 books (will prolly be done with them by the time the 4th is in paperback), and just did today.

i actually enjoy all the chapters from different points of view

[sachmo71]

I got Feast for Crows delivered today from amazon.co.uk, by the way... I'm looking forwards to start reading it tonight!


damn you! :D

[Honolulu_Blue]

i actually enjoy all the chapters from different points of view
That's one of the best parts of the series. Martin just does such an excellent job getting into the heads of the characters and letting you see the world through their eyes. The tone and feel of each perspective is wildly different. It's also great because you read one chapter and are all like "X is the best. He's so cool." "Y is an evil bastard." You read the next chapter and all of a sudden it's like "X actually has some issues." "And that Y, well, maybe he isn't so bad afterall."

I'm in the midst of re-reading "Storm of Swords" right now in preparation of "Feast." I love these books.

[WSUCougar]

What Hockey Boy said.

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL. you called him hockey boy

[finkenst]

i hate you all, too....

time to call the library!

[terpkristin]

I concur with the "Damn You" to 3ric. Amazon.co.uk SHIPPED my copy of AFFC today. :(

Looks like I won't get to it until after NaNoWriMo in November. :( (http://www.nanowrimo.org)

/tk

[GrantDawg]

I GOTS MINE!!!!!

[sachmo71]

Not sure if I posted this before, but The Art of Ice and Fire (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/asongoficeandfireartbook.html) is going to be published by Fantasy Flight Games soon (if not already).
Mine should be coming with my copy of A Feast Of Crows. Not the collectors edition. :(

[GrantDawg]

I finished A Feast of Crows. All I can say is it is not the best of these books. It starts well, slows down towards the middle, and then leaves the stories hanging without as much forward movement as you normally see in this series. I will not say it is "Jordan like" but I will say it is unsatisfying. Especially considering the level of cliff-hangers he leaves in this book, yet he says at the end of the book he'll not be returning to these story lines in the next one! There were plenty of twist, and at least one *ah-ha* moment. All in all though, I'd give this one a five (To give you the scale, Thrones would be a 8, Kings would be a 7, and Swords would be a 9.5).

[terpkristin]

Really, GD?
My copy finally came from amazonUK and I'm on about page 200. So far, I'm loving it, thinking it's on par with the others.

I suppose one can hope that if there are cliffhangers and considering the absent POV's, that at least ADWD's release next year will probably make AFFC "complete" and make it more satisfying.

So far, though, I'm giving this an 8. Wonder if that'll change as I get farther..

/tk

[GrantDawg]

Really, GD?
My copy finally came from amazonUK and I'm on about page 200. So far, I'm loving it, thinking it's on par with the others.

I suppose one can hope that if there are cliffhangers and considering the absent POV's, that at least ADWD's release next year will probably make AFFC "complete" and make it more satisfying.

So far, though, I'm giving this an 8. Wonder if that'll change as I get farther..

/tk
Like I said, it starts strong. It slows as it goes, though.

[DaddyTorgo]

i read like 300 pages or so of Clash of Kings today. Glad that I didn't start the series back at the beginning, much nicer this way around as I won't have to wait for every single book.

[GrantDawg]

The strongest thing I can say about it is it just feels incomplete. I hate to prejudice you going in, but that is the feeling I had at the end. It just ended "wrong."

[bronconick]

The strongest thing I can say about it is it just feels incomplete. I hate to prejudice you going in, but that is the feeling I had at the end. It just ended "wrong."

Having not read it, it seems like that would be likely since I heard he wrote a much larger book and they had to cut it down and add a bunch to book #5.

Maybe when I get AFFC for X-mas, I'll finally read ASOS.

I need to start reading stand-alone books. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

[ISiddiqui]

Juuust finished "A Game of Thrones" (actually finished it today). Wow... I think I'm going to get the next couple books in the series. I had some other books I wanted to read, but I think I'll put them on the backburner. I loved it!

[GrantDawg]

Having not read it, it seems like that would be likely since I heard he wrote a much larger book and they had to cut it down and add a bunch to book #5.

Maybe when I get AFFC for X-mas, I'll finally read ASOS.

I need to start reading stand-alone books. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

If you haven't read ASOS, then you are in for a treat. Best fantasy novel I've ever read.

[sachmo71]

Having not read it, it seems like that would be likely since I heard he wrote a much larger book and they had to cut it down and add a bunch to book #5.


Bingo. It was all supposed to be one book, and they made him spilt it into two.

[GrantDawg]

Bingo. It was all supposed to be one book, and they made him spilt it into two.
Yes, and sadly the storylines they published didn't really have enough to them for a whole book. At least in my opinion.

[GrantDawg]

dola: and again, I'm not saying the book totally sucked. It just wasn't on par with the other three.

[Honolulu_Blue]

dola: and again, I'm not saying the book totally sucked. It just wasn't on par with the other three.
I haven't read it yet (still don't have it), but I hear what you're saying. It's sort of like comparing the "Lord of the Rings" movies. You may say, well, "The Two Towers" is the worst of the three. Saying it's the worst of those three films is all relative. It's still an amazingly good movie.

I am in the midst of re-reading ASOS. Man, I love these books. Talk about "immersion" factors, once I start reading these books I can't stop thinking abou them.

[terpkristin]

The strongest thing I can say about it is it just feels incomplete. I hate to prejudice you going in, but that is the feeling I had at the end. It just ended "wrong."
As I'd tried to say in my earlier post (not very well, as I was sort of buzzed and really tired), I hope that when ADWD comes out, it will tie up whatever "hung up" feelings anybody had about AFFC. Since he more or less had to cut out a significant portion of AFFC to finally get it to print, I expect that ADWD will "round it out" and the combination of AFFC and ADWD will feel more like a complete book.

The best thing I can liken it to is Dan Simmons' "Hyperion," which on its own leaves you competely unfulfilled, but if you read the follow-on book to it, the book becomes much better.

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

so has AFFC actually been released yet, or are people just getting it early from amazon? Cuz I need to pick it up, and I noticed on Amazon it says it's being released on 11/8? Is that accurate? So would I be able to find it in stores on that day, or what's the deal?

[terpkristin]

It was released a month ago in England. That is how I got my copy. I believe the others are in the same boat as I am.

That said.

I finished the book not too long ago. While I agree, it wasn't the best in the series, I didn't think it slowed down too much in the middle as I believe GrantDawg thought. As usual, some crazy stuff happened, and I can't wait to see what GRRM does with the mess he's made! I also think that this book will be "complete" when ADWD comes out, and will likely consider the two books as one...

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

okay. so i'll just pick up a copy on tuesday then. which should be right about when i'm done with ASoS

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm sure you guys saw this article on our man in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/books/12crow.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1134405909-FquvCaaFBJIv+goFAcsbXQ

He also posted this on his website:

The feast has finally been served, and the crows have taken flight... higher than anyone (including me) would ever have dared dream.
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/gallery/art/crows01-t.jpg The American hardcover of A FEAST FOR CROWS was released on November 8, and immediately shot to the top of all the lists, making its debut at #1 on the NEW YORK TIMES bestseller list for hardcover fiction. That shriek you heard coming out of the west a few days back was me in San Francisco, roaring with delight as I got the news from Bantam. The highest I had ever reached on the TIMES list previously was #12, for A STORM OF SWORDS.
A FEAST FOR CROWS also hit #1 on the WALL STREET JOURNAL and PUBLISHER'S WEEKLY bestseller lists, and #2 on the USA LIST (which combines fiction and non-fiction). Amazon, Border's, and Barnes & Noble also had FEAST ranked as #1 in hardcover fiction.
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/gallery/art/crows02-t.jpg Meanwhile the British edition, released by HarperCollins Voyager on October 17, broke in at #10 on the TIMES OF LONDON bestseller list for hardcover fiction, and edged up to #9 for its second week on sale.
Every writer dreams of making these lists, and to hit #1... to know your book is the bestselling novel in all of America... well, I still wake up pinching myself.
It is not something I could have achieved alone, however. Thanks are due to all the good folks at Bantam and HarperCollins for their faith in the series and their patience with the author, to the legions of booksellers who pushed the books on all those unsuspecting customers, and most of all to my readers. If there was ever a series that has grown through word of mouth, it is this one... so thanks to all of you who ever recommended A GAME OF THRONES to friends, kins, and coworkers. If the crows are flying high, it's only because all of you helped them take wing.


This is excellent news and well-deserved. I can't recall a series of books that ever gripped me like these. I can't get enough of it. I have been reading a Feast for over a month now, trying to savor it like a fine wine or delicious meal. I don't want it to end, but I only have 100 pages or so left... It must be done.

I agree, probably the weakest of the 4 thus far, but still incredibly enjoyable. I just love the world and the characters and the world. I enjoy being there. It's all relative of course, the weakest of this series is still infinitely better than most other things.

Once I'm done with Feast (will likely be this week), I plan to start a thread (spoiler warnings in the title) to discuss. Lady H_B got the book the same day I did, but refuses to read it because she doesn't want to read something that she will get emotionally involved in or some such nonsense. Her feet dragging is killing me, because I want to talk about the things that happened!

[sachmo71]

I'm sure you guys saw this article on our man in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/books/12crow.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1134405909-FquvCaaFBJIv+goFAcsbXQ

He also posted this on his website:

The feast has finally been served, and the crows have taken flight... higher than anyone (including me) would ever have dared dream.
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/gallery/art/crows01-t.jpg The American hardcover of A FEAST FOR CROWS was released on November 8, and immediately shot to the top of all the lists, making its debut at #1 on the NEW YORK TIMES bestseller list for hardcover fiction. That shriek you heard coming out of the west a few days back was me in San Francisco, roaring with delight as I got the news from Bantam. The highest I had ever reached on the TIMES list previously was #12, for A STORM OF SWORDS.
A FEAST FOR CROWS also hit #1 on the WALL STREET JOURNAL and PUBLISHER'S WEEKLY bestseller lists, and #2 on the USA LIST (which combines fiction and non-fiction). Amazon, Border's, and Barnes & Noble also had FEAST ranked as #1 in hardcover fiction.
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/gallery/art/crows02-t.jpg Meanwhile the British edition, released by HarperCollins Voyager on October 17, broke in at #10 on the TIMES OF LONDON bestseller list for hardcover fiction, and edged up to #9 for its second week on sale.
Every writer dreams of making these lists, and to hit #1... to know your book is the bestselling novel in all of America... well, I still wake up pinching myself.
It is not something I could have achieved alone, however. Thanks are due to all the good folks at Bantam and HarperCollins for their faith in the series and their patience with the author, to the legions of booksellers who pushed the books on all those unsuspecting customers, and most of all to my readers. If there was ever a series that has grown through word of mouth, it is this one... so thanks to all of you who ever recommended A GAME OF THRONES to friends, kins, and coworkers. If the crows are flying high, it's only because all of you helped them take wing.


This is excellent news and well-deserved. I can't recall a series of books that ever gripped me like these. I can't get enough of it. I have been reading a Feast for over a month now, trying to savor it like a fine wine or delicious meal. I don't want it to end, but I only have 100 pages or so left... It must be done.

I agree, probably the weakest of the 4 thus far, but still incredibly enjoyable. I just love the world and the characters and the world. I enjoy being there. It's all relative of course, the weakest of this series is still infinitely better than most other things.

Once I'm done with Feast (will likely be this week), I plan to start a thread (spoiler warnings in the title) to discuss. Lady H_B got the book the same day I did, but refuses to read it because she doesn't want to read something that she will get emotionally involved in or some such nonsense. Her feet dragging is killing me, because I want to talk about the things that happened!


I'm looking forward to that thread. Put me in the camp that loved the book. Incidentally, my review has been rejected by all so far on Amazon. Haters gotta hate! :D

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm looking forward to that thread. Put me in the camp that loved the book. Incidentally, my review has been rejected by all so far on Amazon. Haters gotta hate! :D
no reason someone else can't start the thread is there?

[Honolulu_Blue]

no reason someone else can't start the thread is there?
No! None at all. Please feel free! I'll jump in "in media res."

[DaddyTorgo]

bump for some news from his "not a blog"

Oh, and I've also come up with a new title for the seventh (and final, I hope, I hope, I hope) volume of the series -- A DREAM OF SPRING. I like the sound of that a lot better than A TIME FOR WOLVES, which has been my working title for book seven up to now, and I also think it gives a better sense of the book that I want to write. So -- A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, then THE WINDS OF WINTER, then A DREAM OF SPRING. Shouldn't take me long (hah).

[finkenst]

i thought book4 was supposed to be the alst one?

i hate you grrm

[ISiddiqui]

i thought book4 was supposed to be the alst one?

:confused:

Not since the 2nd book came out could you say something like that. Must not have been paying attention.

[Honolulu_Blue]

bump for some news from his "not a blog"

Oh, and I've also come up with a new title for the seventh (and final, I hope, I hope, I hope) volume of the series -- A DREAM OF SPRING. I like the sound of that a lot better than A TIME FOR WOLVES, which has been my working title for book seven up to now, and I also think it gives a better sense of the book that I want to write. So -- A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, then THE WINDS OF WINTER, then A DREAM OF SPRING. Shouldn't take me long (hah).

A "Dream of Spring", eh? I like it, though it sounds wildly uplifting. Mayhap he'll only bump off a quarter the major characters in that one. I wait patiently...

[finketr]

:confused:

Not since the 2nd book came out could you say something like that. Must not have been paying attention.


i blame tk.

i wasn't paying attention, just got lots of time to read and grrm would be appropriate.

[ISiddiqui]

A "Dream of Spring", eh? I like it, though it sounds wildly uplifting. Mayhap he'll only bump off a quarter the major characters in that one. I wait patiently...

Seriously! Every once in a while I think that Rickon is going to end up being the big hero at the end because everyone else good has died.

[Coder]

Seriously! Every once in a while I think that Rickon is going to end up being the big hero at the end because everyone else good has died.

I have this really vague theory about the Starks and Targaryen being connected somehow. Either Jon will marry Daenerys or they're somehow related already (through Rhaegar and Lyanna perhaps)..

[Honolulu_Blue]

I have this really vague theory about the Starks and Targaryen being connected somehow. Either Jon will marry Daenerys or they're somehow related already (through Rhaegar and Lyanna perhaps)..

That's the leading theory by far of Jon's parentage, that he's the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna and that whole "Promise me, Ned." thing was Lyanna making sure Ned promised to take of and protect her child, knowing full well that Robert would most certainly kill the child if he ever knew. The only one alive who really knows, of course, is Howland Reed.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Seriously! Every once in a while I think that Rickon is going to end up being the big hero at the end because everyone else good has died.

Assuming Rickon is old enough to actually do anything when the series finally ends, I think he's going to be one large, angry, wild dude. . .

[sachmo71]

The Starks and Targaryens owe a lot of the same people some payback.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The Starks and Targaryens owe a lot of the same people some payback.

Most definitely. Unfortunately, most of the worst offenders are already dead.

[ISiddiqui]

Assuming Rickon is old enough to actually do anything when the series finally ends, I think he's going to be one large, angry, wild dude. . .

Yeah, that'll be great... everyone dies, and suddenly Rickon comes back and says "What the Hell happened?" ;)

[cschex]

Yeah, though knowing Martin, Rickon will get killed off in the next book. Seriously, I am not holding out hope for any of my favorite main characters to live through the series...I think I would be a little disappointed if Arya, Tyrion, Jon and Dany all survived. It would seem a little less...Martinesque.

I can take comfort in that fact that I am sure Jaime is a dead man.

[ISiddiqui]

Someone has to live in the end though. Or else who would end the book? ;)

I'm not sure Jaime is the marked man. He may be the one who ultimately survives in the end, with a totally different outlook than he had at the beginning of the series (which has already occurred, of course). I think maybe Jon and Dany get together, Jon ends up dying, but not before impregnating Dany and Arya & Tyrion are up in the air whether or not they live or die.

Or maybe Jaime sacrifices himself to save Tyrion. Who really knows?

[3ric]

I think Howland Reed has got to be one of the most eagerly anticipated characters yet to appear in a book... all because of what he knows.

[finketr]

who the heck is howland reed?

[Honolulu_Blue]

who the heck is howland reed?

He is a crannogman, the father of Jojen and the girl (name is eluding me at the moment) with Bran. He's Lord of Greywater Watch and one of Ned's best friends. He and Ned were the only two to survive the fight against the last three Kingsguard: Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower, and the other one. He was there when Ned found Lyanna all bloodied. He's still hanging out in the swamps.

[ISiddiqui]

LOL... those two post in succession were great. "Howland Reed is the most anticipated character". "Who the fuck is Howland Reed". Hehe..

[Vince]

Is there even a timetable yet for A Dance with Dragons?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Is there even a timetable yet for A Dance with Dragons?

No. There was some initial talk of later this year, but I would guess later next year is more likely. Late summer/fall of 2007, but that's just complete speculation (and probably some wishful thinking) on my part.

[Vince]

No. There was some initial talk of later this year, but I would guess later next year is more likely. Late summer/fall of 2007, but that's just complete speculation (and probably some wishful thinking) on my part.

I didn't think there was, but I was hoping...

[DaddyTorgo]

Arthur Dayne. Is there even a cooler character in the whole series? Or is it just that I have a man-crush on his nickname?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Or is it just that I have a man-crush on his nickname?

You and everyone else in the Seven Kingdoms it seems. I loved that scene where Myrcella mentions Arthur Dayne to Gerold Dayne (aka "The Darkstar") and he goes off on how there have been generations upon generations of Daynes throughout the ages but the only anyone ever remembers or mentions is The Sword of The Morning.

The Darkstar is a bit of a tool.

[DaddyTorgo]

i think it's just because it's such a cool image...The Sword of the Morning. The first sword of the day, the sword with the light of the sun forged into its blade...it just seems so epic.

but then again I love history, so all those old Ser's just fascinate me. The scene that has Jaime going through the White Book of the Kingsguard, I kept hoping GRRM would put more detail in that, tell us more about the old Kingsguard.

[Honolulu_Blue]

i think it's just because it's such a cool image...The Sword of the Morning. The first sword of the day, the sword with the light of the sun forged into its blade...it just seems so epic.

but then again I love history, so all those old Ser's just fascinate me. The scene that has Jaime going through the White Book of the Kingsguard, I kept hoping GRRM would put more detail in that, tell us more about the old Kingsguard.

That is definitely one of the strengths of these books. The history of the world is so richly detailed and interesting. It really feels like a living, breathing world and you're just sort of jumping into the middle of one in a series of epic events within it.

While I don't think it'd ever happen and I know the outcome, I would love to read a thee book series on Robert's Rebellion.

[DaddyTorgo]

That is definitely one of the strengths of these books. The history of the world is so richly detailed and interesting. It really feels like a living, breathing world and you're just sort of jumping into the middle of one in a series of epic events within it.

While I don't think it'd ever happen and I know the outcome, I would love to read a thee book series on Robert's Rebellion.

yeah. the rich history of this world is what really kept me going about midway through book one when i sorta felt like i might lose it. i just thought to myself "but there's so much history already revealed, and so many little nuggets of things, i've got to read on."

and yes i agree. a 3 book series, hell even a 2 book series on Robert's Rebellion would be amazing once we're done with this story, give us the real full detail of what happened once we know the truth about "promise me" and all of that.

or what about a 2-booker on the Targs' rise to power?

[ISiddiqui]

but then again I love history, so all those old Ser's just fascinate me. The scene that has Jaime going through the White Book of the Kingsguard, I kept hoping GRRM would put more detail in that, tell us more about the old Kingsguard.

Why would he do it in that scene, when he could just release a Book of the Kingsguard afterwards ;).

Though my favorite nickname is "The Late Lord Frey"... hehe.

The history is the best part of the books, especially how utterly detailed the world is, with all the houses and relations. Martin has to have a chart a freaking mile long to keep everyone straight! If you want to see something :eek:, take a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire

That's all the characters mentioned in the books. That list streaches forever! Though I, personally, find the heirarchy of all the Frey's at the end of the books to be far more impressive, because everyone is accounted for, no matter how small.

[RendeR]

And to think, I thought he was called "sword of the morning" because he woke up with a raging hard on every day.....

[Vince]

Arthur Dayne. Is there even a cooler character in the whole series? Or is it just that I have a man-crush on his nickname?
The Sword of the Morning, especially with a blade of Valyrian Steel named 'Dawn,' is one of my favorite nicknames for any character in any series ever.

[cschex]

"Sword of the Morning" is an awesome name, but it isn't exclusive to Ser Arthur. It is a title given to an eminent Dayne wielding Dawn. There have been many Swords of the Morning throughout Westerosi history.

That being said, I'd buy a three book series just about Arthur Dayne. What a kickass character.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Martin just put up a new sample chapter on his website.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/chapter.html

It's a Tyrion chapter. Spoilers abound obviously.

[finketr]

He is a crannogman, the father of Jojen and the girl (name is eluding me at the moment) with Bran. He's Lord of Greywater Watch and one of Ned's best friends. He and Ned were the only two to survive the fight against the last three Kingsguard: Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower, and the other one. He was there when Ned found Lyanna all bloodied. He's still hanging out in the swamps.

oh, that guy... i remember now.. I'd forgotten about it since we NEVER got to see/hear from bran/rickon and hodor in AFFC...

i'll need to keep the wiki page loaded at all times to remind of who's who.

[sachmo71]

Martin just put up a new sample chapter on his website.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/chapter.html

It's a Tyrion chapter. Spoilers abound obviously.


awesome!

[ISiddiqui]

Martin just put up a new sample chapter on his website.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/chapter.html

It's a Tyrion chapter. Spoilers abound obviously.

SWEET! Nice find :D.

[Bad-example]

Mostly because of this thread, I read this series recently. I found it every bit as entertaining as I was led to believe.

"The Mountain That Rides" is my favorite nickname.

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, very nice chapter... makes me want the next book even more!

[terpkristin]

DARNIT, HOW CAN HE TORTURE US SO!?!?!?!?!?!?!
____________________________________________
From GRRM's "Not A Blog" (http://grrm.livejournal.com/):
Meanwhile, for those who do read this page... yes, I am still working on A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, and yes, I still hope to deliver it this fall, or by the end of the year at the latest.

I also have other news about A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE. A couple of things, actually, that I think will please and excite fans of the series. Unfortunately, I can't talk about them yet. Watch my News page, though. I should have a few big announcements in the next few months.
_____________________________________________

What the heck is that? How can he give us something THAT tempting and just be so casual about it?!?!?!

/tk

[Honolulu_Blue]

DARNIT, HOW CAN HE TORTURE US SO!?!?!?!?!?!?!
____________________________________________
From GRRM's "Not A Blog" (http://grrm.livejournal.com/):
Meanwhile, for those who do read this page... yes, I am still working on A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, and yes, I still hope to deliver it this fall, or by the end of the year at the latest.

I also have other news about A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE. A couple of things, actually, that I think will please and excite fans of the series. Unfortunately, I can't talk about them yet. Watch my News page, though. I should have a few big announcements in the next few months.
_____________________________________________

What the heck is that? How can he give us something THAT tempting and just be so casual about it?!?!?!

/tk

End of the year at the latest is about 9 months earlier than I was expecting it. So, that's something.

As for the big announcement... Agreed tk. Unacceptable. Unacceptable, indeed!

[terpkristin]

End of the year at the latest is about 9 months earlier than I was expecting it. So, that's something.

Well, delivery is one thing. I don't know how long his editors take with it, or how long rewrites take, but I guess it's progress and I'll always take that. :D

/tk

[ISiddiqui]

YAY! End of year is very good :).

[Vince]

Woohoo!

[Galaril]

DARNIT, HOW CAN HE TORTURE US SO!?!?!?!?!?!?!
____________________________________________
From GRRM's "Not A Blog" (http://grrm.livejournal.com/):
Meanwhile, for those who do read this page... yes, I am still working on A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, and yes, I still hope to deliver it this fall, or by the end of the year at the latest.

I also have other news about A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE. A couple of things, actually, that I think will please and excite fans of the series. Unfortunately, I can't talk about them yet. Watch my News page, though. I should have a few big announcements in the next few months.
_____________________________________________

What the heck is that? How can he give us something THAT tempting and just be so casual about it?!?!?!

/tk


I am guessing a movie deal or maybe a TV series based on the the Fire and Ice books probably on the SciFi Channel. Hope.:D

[wade moore]

Glad you bumped this...

I need to read this thread as I just finished the 4th book about a week ago.. so I read all four in about 4 months with another book or two in the middle, that's REALLY fast for me...

[ISiddiqui]

Screw Sci-Fi, but it on TNT, so it'll be on High-Def :D.

[cschex]

I am guessing a movie deal or maybe a TV series based on the the Fire and Ice books probably on the SciFi Channel. Hope.:D


I'd love the TV series, but it would have to be on HBO. Can't have ASOIAF without the swearing and the incest, after all.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I was thinking along similar lines, a TV series/mini-series or something like that. I don't know. It would be hard to imagine something like that, especially since the series isn't over yet and wont likely be for quite... some... time.

Maybe it's a computer game. He's hinted at that a few times before during interviews.

[ISiddiqui]

RPG! :D

Though hopefully not a MMORPG! ;)

[Honolulu_Blue]

RPG! :D

Though hopefully not a MMORPG! ;)

Yes. Definitely not a MMORPG.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dola.

I would love to see some sort of RPG/Tactical warfare type game. Oh baby!

[ISiddiqui]

It'd be great if it was an RPG of something like a Dunk & Egg story... something completely out of the current timeline of the books (I guess kind of KOTOR was to the Star Wars movies).

[Honolulu_Blue]

It'd be great if it was an RPG of something like a Dunk & Egg story... something completely out of the current timeline of the books (I guess kind of KOTOR was to the Star Wars movies).

Hmm... I think you could be on to something Squiddi-man!

[cschex]

That's an awesome idea. A tactical wargame based on the Blackfyre Rebellion would be incredible, imo. Or maybe a campaign game with Aegon the Conqueror.

[Peregrine]

Interesting speculation. There is already a board game based on the series, which is a very good one, and they have a lot of background to draw on for any kind of game.

[Galaril]

A fascinating interview with George.
http://a1018.g.akamai.net/f/1018/19019/1d/randomhouse1.download.akamai.com/19019/GeorgeRRMartinInterview.mp3

[ISiddiqui]

Thanks, Galaril... I'm listening to it now :D.

[ISiddiqui]

Good to hear, Martin won't sell out for a FPS video game and would rather prefer a strategic one and wants the right partner. :)

[Galaril]

Yeah I was glad to here him mention a possible strategy game as well as some info on the future books in the series.

[terpkristin]

A fascinating interview with George.
http://a1018.g.akamai.net/f/1018/19019/1d/randomhouse1.download.akamai.com/19019/GeorgeRRMartinInterview.mp3

Thanks for sharing that interview. I quite enjoyed listening to it (finally!) today while waiting for my computer to stop being slow at work (I was listening to it on my iPod, so it's not like I was DIRECTLY slowing down my computer :D).

I'd love to see an RPG or RTS game based on this series (and that's saying something, as I am generally not a fan of RTS games). I know they have the board game, which is quite akin to Risk. I always thought GRRM was a Brit, was funny when I realized he wasn't. :)

/tk

[RendeR]

Screw Sci-Fi, but it on TNT, so it'll be on High-Def :D.

gah, NO, TNT is awful, their utter incompetance when it comes to editing for television would leave this magnificent story in ashes.

Let Sci-Fi do an ongoing mini-series, 2-3 hours per episode so they can do the entire storyline of the books. It would be epic and I would schedule my life around the airings of new episodes.

[Grammaticus]

I believe there is a card game as well.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I believe there is a card game as well.

There is. I considered picking it up back when it came out, but then I saw the Ned Stark card and he looked more like "The Lord of the Dance" than The Lord of Winterfell, so I passed. It was a gut reaction and perhaps a bit quick as there is some fine art in the set. Still, it was a wise decision. I have no business getting into another card game.

[sachmo71]

gah, NO, TNT is awful, their utter incompetance when it comes to editing for television would leave this magnificent story in ashes.

Let Sci-Fi do an ongoing mini-series, 2-3 hours per episode so they can do the entire storyline of the books. It would be epic and I would schedule my life around the airings of new episodes.


this would be worse than TNT.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I was thinking along similar lines, a TV series/mini-series or something like that. I don't know. It would be hard to imagine something like that, especially since the series isn't over yet and wont likely be for quite... some... time.

I've thought about this a lot and I just don't think it'd be feasible to do any sort of television or movie version of this series and have it turn out well. It's too complex, there are too many characters, and so much of the meaty/cool stuff of these books are the intricacies between the characters, the plots, the small scenes. It's really hard to capture that well in tv or film. That's one of the big reasons why I don't think any film/tv adaptation of "Dune" has ever been close at capturing the coolness of the book. And "A Song of Fire & Ice" is about 10,000x's more intricate and complex than "Dune".

[RendeR]

I've thought about this a lot and I just don't think it'd be feasible to do any sort of television or movie version of this series and have it turn out well. It's too complex, there are too many characters, and so much of the meaty/cool stuff of these books are the intricacies between the characters, the plots, the small scenes. It's really hard to capture that well in tv or film. That's one of the big reasons why I don't think any film/tv adaptation of "Dune" has ever been close at capturing the coolness of the book. And "A Song of Fire & Ice" is about 10,000x's more intricate and complex than "Dune".


On this point I must agree with you, I adore Dune and its entire world, but neither the movie or the extended mini-series of it were more than average in how they handled things.

I think it could be done, but I think it would take a seriously amaxing screenwriter and a collaboration of a number of top directors to pull it off.

[RendeR]

this would be worse than TNT.


Not really, the production would be better and the lack of "flash in the corner" advertising DURING the broadcast would be worth it.

TNT is a terrible terrible network.

[Galaril]

Here is a great site with a ton of art work which I belive some is from the card game and also from other artists including the site owner.


http://amoka.net/eng/gal/

[Edward64]

I would love to see this series picked up by HBO (10-12 episodes for 1-2 seasons). There's probably not enough mass market appeal for the regular tv stations, but HBO might be able to do it justice.

[ISiddiqui]

gah, NO, TNT is awful, their utter incompetance when it comes to editing for television would leave this magnificent story in ashes.

Let Sci-Fi do an ongoing mini-series, 2-3 hours per episode so they can do the entire storyline of the books. It would be epic and I would schedule my life around the airings of new episodes.

Sci-Fi = no HDTV

TNT = HDTV

TNT wins.

[ISiddiqui]

I would love to see this series picked up by HBO (10-12 episodes for 1-2 seasons). There's probably not enough mass market appeal for the regular tv stations, but HBO might be able to do it justice.

HBO is also a great choice :D.

[sachmo71]

Not really, the production would be better and the lack of "flash in the corner" advertising DURING the broadcast would be worth it.

TNT is a terrible terrible network.


If it's a regular series, I'll give it a chance on sci-fi.
But movie and\or mini-series, and it's TNT all the way.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

GRRM has already said that there's no way there will ever be a movie made of the books. If there is going to be a series, it has to be on HBO. They are the only ones who can even come close to capturing the books on screen.

[Edward64]

If it's a regular series, I'll give it a chance on sci-fi.
But movie and\or mini-series, and it's TNT all the way.
Another couple reasons for HBO

(1) I want to see all the gore and bloodshed in bright red
(2) I want the adult situations in the book to be portrayed (ex. incest)

[DaddyTorgo]

Another couple reasons for HBO

(2) I want the adult situations in the book to be portrayed (ex. incest)

ummm yeah. not that i don't want to see the books portrayed accurately, but i might not have picked this as my example of the adult situations!

[Edward64]

ummm yeah. not that i don't want to see the books portrayed accurately, but i might not have picked this as my example of the adult situations!
Yeah, you're probably right ... but the sibling incest is a central theme in the books and is an example of what TNT, Sci-Fi channels would not be able to portray properly (ex. without alot of backlash).

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah, you're probably right ... but the sibling incest is a central theme in the books and is an example of what TNT, Sci-Fi channels would not be able to portray properly (ex. without alot of backlash).

true true

[GrantDawg]

BTW, I was in a bookstore yesterday and saw there is a d20 roleplaying game source book written for this series, with GRRM blessings and help.

[Honolulu_Blue]

BTW, I was in a bookstore yesterday and saw there is a d20 roleplaying game source book written for this series, with GRRM blessings and help.

It won some RPG award at GenCon a few weeks ago. I think, perhaps, best new RPG or some such. I bought it a while back. It's cool to have, but the only drawback is that it doesn't really give you too much more information than the books. I was really hoping for a much more detailed sourcebook with more maps and the like, but the book didn't deliver.

Oh yes, and the company the published the book went out of business a couple of months ago.

It could be a really fun setting for a RPG.

[GrantDawg]

It won some RPG award at GenCon a few weeks ago. I think, perhaps, best new RPG or some such. I bought it a while back. It's cool to have, but the only drawback is that it doesn't really give you too much more information than the books. I was really hoping for a much more detailed sourcebook with more maps and the like, but the book didn't deliver.

Oh yes, and the company the published the book went out of business a couple of months ago.

It could be a really fun setting for a RPG.

I read the intro and you could tell the company was about to go under. I would love to game in that setting.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This is very cool. I've been waiting for something along these lines for a long, long time. . . (and by the sound if it, I will continue to wait for some time).

BANTAM TO PUBLISH THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE
September 2, 2006
I've had readers writing and emailing me for years asking for some sort of "encyclopedia" or concordance for Westeros and the world of A Song of Ice and Fire, so it thrills me no end to announce that a few hours ago I signed a contract with Bantam Books for just such a companion book. We're calling it The World of Ice and Fire. . . mainly because The World of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire is too long and cumbersome to put on a cover, and way clunky besides.
The "world book" will be a big undertaking, and much too complicated for me to tackle alone, especially since I have this novel still to finish (you know the one), but I've been lucky enough to find some splendid help in persons of Elio M. Garcia, Jr. and Linda Antonsson., who will be my co-authors on the project. Elio (sometimes known as "Ran") and Linda are the hosts and webmasters at Westeros.org, with its terrific concordance and colorful rolls of arms, and I have long had the feeling that both of them know a lot more about the Seven Kingdoms than I do.
With the ink not quite dry on the contracts yet, I can't tell you much about the contents of The World of Ice and Fire, but we do know that it will include a lengthy section on the history of the Seven Kingdoms, and a "who's who" of characters past and present, living, dead, and legendary. Heraldry and genealogy will also be included. Oh, and maps. Lots of maps. You asked for them, and we're going to give to them to you.
This will be a large and splendid coffee-table sized book, with full color throughout and artwork on every page. Some of the illustrations will, of necessity, be reprinted from among the best of the work seen in the art book, the card game, the board game, the RPG, and various books and comics, but a lot of it will be original, commissioned especially for the world book. More details when we have them.
As for the rest of the contents... we want to know what you would like to see in an encyclopedia/ concordance/ companion book. However, PLEASE DO NOT EMAIL ME your suggestions. What you should do instead is go to the bulletin board that Elio and Linda maintain at Westeros.org (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/) and post your ideas there. This book is for the fans, so tell us what should be in it.
There's no way to project a firm publication date at this time, but my best guess is that The World of Ice and Fire will be released in late 2007 or early 2008, after A Dance With Dragons but before The Winds of Winter.

(And yes, this was one of the "secret projects" that I referred to in some earlier news stories and on my live journal. It has been in the works for some time, but I don't like to announce projects until contracts are signed. Watch this page for news about the other "secret projects," when the time is ripe to announce them).

[aran]

That is goddamn incredible. I can't wait!

[GrantDawg]

BTW, guys. I found out at Dragoncon this weekend that Robert Jordan is dieing. He has some rare form of lukemia, and it is just a matter of time.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I read this about Jordan a couple of months ago. That's really sad news. I'm not a fan of his work, but I hate to see anyone go out like that.

As for GRRM, I'm a bit surprised by this announcement. Not that I'm not happy, mind you, it's just that a couple of years ago he said that he didn't have detailed notes about the back-story of Westeros and kind of made it up as he went. He said that was one of the reasons it was taking so long to write the books because he had to keep going back and checking over what he had already written to make sure he didn't mess stuff up. Maybe he changed that since then. Either way, I'm glad it's coming out.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I read this about Jordan a couple of months ago. That's really sad news. I'm not a fan of his work, but I hate to see anyone go out like that.

As for GRRM, I'm a bit surprised by this announcement. Not that I'm not happy, mind you, it's just that a couple of years ago he said that he didn't have detailed notes about the back-story of Westeros and kind of made it up as he went. He said that was one of the reasons it was taking so long to write the books because he had to keep going back and checking over what he had already written to make sure he didn't mess stuff up. Maybe he changed that since then. Either way, I'm glad it's coming out.

It is sad about Jordan. Really a shame.

As for this book, GRRM has said he hasn't kept detailed notes, not because such things didn't exist, but that he kept it all in his head (scary thought). I don't think he's changed at all.

If you've checked out the website he refers to -- westeros.org -- you'll see he doesn't have to keep detailed notes. His fans are keeping them for him. The resources on the web for these books are immense and well detailed. No stone goes unturned. These folks, and thousands of other fans, have done a lot of work compiling all this information from all the books in the series, the Dunk & Egg books, and interviews with GRRM.

It really sounds like (based on his comment about not emailing him) this book is not something he'll be putting together. He'll obviously have the final "say" in everything that goes into the book, but I imagine a lot of work will be done by the publishers and the uber-fans and those who run the website(s).

[Honolulu_Blue]

The latest update from Martin (from his "Not a Blog"). It comes as no surprise really:

Bad news. Work. None of the projects I wrapped up was A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Work has been going well, yes, but not especially on DANCE. I am not going to be able to finish it by the end of the year as I had hoped.

I know this will disappoint all of you. Many of you will write me sympathetic and supportive emails (and I do appreciate those, even if I don't have the time to reply). A few of you will write me nasty, intemperate emails about how I'm doing this all just to screw my readers. Sigh. My editors, agents, and publishers will be even more disappointed than my readers, but no one will be as disappointed as me. Believe that or not. All I can say is that I HAVE gotten several other obligations off my plate, that my contractor swears in blood that the home renovations will be finished soon so I can have my office back again, that I'm working on DANCE and I will continue to work on it. What I will no longer due, however, is announce any more dates by which I hope to finish and deliver the book. All that those estimates ever seem to do is ratchet up my stress levels and get me more grief. I hope it won't be taking much longer... I have almost two months at home before my next scheduled trip, to Boston and NYC in February, and one thing that has become very clear to me is that the more I travel, the less I get written. (And speaking of Boston and NYC, do I perchance have any fans out there in New Haven, Connecticut?) I have even thought about cancelling my annual trip to Boston and New York, though I am reluctant to take that step, since that is usually the only time of the year that I get to see my family in New Jersey.

[ISiddiqui]

Damn... but I thought this was going to happen. Martin seems to have too much other stuff on his plate! Clear it off, George and work on ADWD!

[cschex]

GRRM has always gone to a tone of cons and signings and readily admitted that he doesn't write well on teh road. I personally think he might just be a bit burnt out on ASOIAF, but I hope that isn't the case. If he's considering cancelling trips in Feb, it seems to me he's fairly close, just not enough that he will be done by the New Year. I do agree that he should stop saying when something will be done; that just leads to more anticipation and let-down.

[wade moore]

I do agree that he should stop saying when something will be done; that just leads to more anticipation and let-down.

Don't let H.A. hear you say that!

[JAG]

Considering he hasn't been able to make previous promises regarding AFFC, this does not come as a surprise to me, though I hoped he would be able to make it regardless. It sounds like he'll be able to wrap it up in the next 4 or so months though which is good. I think he's also wise to make a more Jim-like policy on release dates of his future books.

So all in all, a little disappointing, but I'm glad he's near the finish line. The wait for book #6 is bound to be a rather long one so it's nice to have a shorter wait for this one.